Chapter 33-2 Red Winter

[Triggernator]

Meh they clearly need an Apache to go zombie hunting, fletchette rockets will deal with zombies... 30mm cannon will finish off anything still twitching

[Adventureless_Hero]

So the Little Ones turned Inklings....

Anybody decipher a timeline for how long (about) it took for these things to go from itty-bitty to holy-shitty? I'm just curious because once Inkling, they seem to take almost no time to turn, yet they stayed small for at least a few days, and while small did not exhibit these bullet-proof characteristics...My evidence for this is the fact that Bricks ripped an arm off one. Yea, Bricks is a BAMF, but i don't think he's torn any sheets of kevlar bare-handed

The reason I ask is to further the mutations theory of these guys by Ink/pimpasszombie/TOWTM....perhaps these things are a Charles Darwin wet-dream and are ever-evolving, at ridiculous rates. They were small, got big to more effectively kill prey. Jump higher once people stayed on rooftops so they could feast, run faster cuz people started mobilizing cars, developed thick skin for the cold (consequentially becoming bullet-RESISTANT so far), and perhaps the jumping has reached new bounds, as that helicopter was in the air for at least a little while before it got in, and even an intelligent ravenous beast, I think, would not wait til 5,000 feet to knock on the door....so maybe it got out ahead, and JUMPED onto the helicopter (or flew via zombie Pteradactyls)

I don't think they evolved based off of thier surroundings. That would require multiple generations breeding with traits that kept the better suited ones alive. Evolving sudden changes like that isn't Darwinian, but more Lamarckian. Even so, my guess is that neither are the case. The Little Ones appear to have been created or came from somewhere. Where? I have no clue? For all I know Pinstripes grew them in a test tube, mixed zombie blood with super baby blood, or something. But once the original batch of Little Ones came to exist, I believe they grew up at a slow rate.

We witnessed them as being little all the way up until the assault on the Ice Rink by the Mallers (that's based off my memory, correct me if we've seen Little Ones in the story beyond that point). So presumably, the original batch of tattooed Little Ones have had months (from about August to November) to grow into this full sized Inklings. My guess is that the original batch of tattooed and numbered Inklings took those months to grow up. But if bitten by one, the change to an inkling is almost instant (instant being 24 hours maybe?).

Also, I think the Little One's possessed some of thier adult counterpart traits, just in a weaker form. Sure Bricks severed ones arm, but I think he used the truck door as a sort of axe to repeatedly slam it on the Little One's arm until it severed. But prior to that, Lizzy narrates that Tardust shot at the Little One but only managed to piss it off. Does this mean he shot it but didn't pierce it's skin, or did he shoot at it and annoy it. Can't tell. Maybe the Little Ones had tough skin, but it wasn't until they were a full grown Inkling that they possessed this very noticeable thick hide.

-also, in regards to the spray and pray/one shot, one kill discussion: I shoot about 20 to 40 million per milliliter but it only takes one to get the job done...just saying.

[Hoff4D]

I don't think they evolved based off of thier surroundings. That would require multiple generations breeding with traits that kept the better suited ones alive. Evolving sudden changes like that isn't Darwinian, but more Lamarckian. Even so, my guess is that neither are the case. The Little Ones appear to have been created or came from somewhere. Where? I have no clue? For all I know Pinstripes grew them in a test tube, mixed zombie blood with super baby blood, or something. But once the original batch of Little Ones came to exist, I believe they grew up at a slow rate.

We witnessed them as being little all the way up until the assault on the Ice Rink by the Mallers (that's based off my memory, correct me if we've seen Little Ones in the story beyond that point). So presumably, the original batch of tattooed Little Ones have had months (from about August to November) to grow into this full sized Inklings. My guess is that the original batch of tattooed and numbered Inklings took those months to grow up. But if bitten by one, the change to an inkling is almost instant (instant being 24 hours maybe?).

Also, I think the Little One's possessed some of thier adult counterpart traits, just in a weaker form. Sure Bricks severed ones arm, but I think he used the truck door as a sort of axe to repeatedly slam it on the Little One's arm until it severed. But prior to that, Lizzy narrates that Tardust shot at the Little One but only managed to piss it off. Does this mean he shot it but didn't pierce it's skin, or did he shoot at it and annoy it. Can't tell. Maybe the Little Ones had tough skin, but it wasn't until they were a full grown Inkling that they possessed this very noticeable thick hide.

-also, in regards to the spray and pray/one shot, one kill discussion: I shoot about 20 to 40 million per milliliter but it only takes one to get the job done...just saying.

Excellent break down. I was just trying to throw out other ideas to get the wheels turning. Good call on the Darwin/Lamarck correction, but being that they are presumably some sort of genetic mutation, I was proposing that they ARE 'evolving' within in a generation. Still, your argument stands

[Adventureless_Hero]

Excellent break down. I was just trying to throw out other ideas to get the wheels turning. Good call on the Darwin/Lamarck correction, but being that they are presumably some sort of genetic mutation, I was proposing that they ARE 'evolving' within in a generation. Still, your argument stands

Thanks mate! I'm sorry if I came off sounding like, "Oh look at me, I know the difference between words!" Totally didn't mean it. But yeah, I get what you mean; these Inklings are something unlike nature has seen before. I am going to be floored if we find out they are the result of only The Haze. There has to be a hand of meddling there; whether it's military, psychotic geneticist turned zombie king, or whatever!

[UndeadSweeper]

Excellent break down. I was just trying to throw out other ideas to get the wheels turning. Good call on the Darwin/Lamarck correction, but being that they are presumably some sort of genetic mutation, I was proposing that they ARE 'evolving' within in a generation. Still, your argument stands

My only issue with this is, why hasn't any the other zombies evolve as well? Only the PimpZombie ones are changing.

[Robzombie]

My only problem with that is it just seems kinda "comic book-ish" to me, which for the level and degree of reality put into the story would be just too hard to swallow. Like the geneticist, or terrorist group thing, or so many other ideas (excluding the growth and mutation stuff), I just can't buy into most if not any of them. The simplest and most believable idea to me is that this shit just happened, and now they gotta deal with it, maybe never having found out exactly what caused it except for best guesses, and by the end everybody's just gotta start over and get on with their lives having collectively experienced a near extinction event. That doesn't mean some crazy shit isn't going to happen from now till then.

[Witch_Doctor]

Sorry keep forgetting you guys are american and are trained to go full auto at stuff...

us Brits (damn you pippin and your irritating accent of indeterminate origin) are trained to make every shot count...

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

little-ones do not mutate from one state into another; it is not like changing from human to zombie and done. As Glenn pointed out at the elementary school: they keep changing, at least for quite a while.
What, if the type of "little-one-infection" is dependant on the level of the "little-one-zombie-grade"? Two examples with the same little-one:
- little-one #1 is small yet, has no super-skin and smells like lemmon, because it is just 1 hour old; it harms a human => infected human becomes a little-one of this small, no super-skin and lemmon-smell type;
- but little-one #1 evolves, and after a day it is huge, has kevlar-skin and smells like the average zed, and it wounds a human => infected human becomes a little-one of this 'newly evolved' type.

That could (maybe would) explain why Saul had little trouble with dealing with his little-one at the elementary school, while the blackhawk crew whitnessed a little-one being so stubborn in going down. Also this ever-changing Zed-factor would not rely on ongoing experiments; so it would be comparable with the ever-changing HIV ...

Amendment to this little-one-theory:
This would also raise one specific question: does the process of 'evolving mutation' follow a fixed pattern, or is it kind of out of control? If there is a fixed pattern to it, then the infected human in the first example would change into a little-one with kevlar-skin and stuff over the time as well; but if the latter case is true, then the human in the first example could change into a completely different little-one-type then the poor bastard that is infected in the second example - meaning: one little one produces different types of offspring depending on its state of own evolution, if not even regardless of that state. This could/ would be an explanation why we have different little-ones so far ...
Benefit for Zeds: You cannot create a safe plan to fight these creatures ...
/amendment ends

About the general killing spree-theories on zombies:
I am not so sure if shrappnel-based weapon systems with area effects would take down zeds in huge numbers, but at best only in slightly bigger numbers. Several times we learned about regulars, Ink, little-ones and behemoths taking wounds to their bodies not dying, even not caring about the wounding. In the case of Ink we also know that he was shot in his heart (according to what Burt mentions in #11), and he was not stopped.
Now, my point is: Shrappnel might kill in two cases - either by litteraly exploding the soft target or by critically harming important inner organs. This means that a single shrappnel shot/ explosion won't take down as many Zeds as it would do with humans.
This theory is limited by the one-time situation in which Burt and Michael deployed a claymore mine in front of The Tower and killed a rather huge number of Zeds (no numbers mentioned) with it; but I think that one claymore dishes out a much stronger explosion then explody-things mounted under an assault-rifle, right?
Edit: I had to think of "Yonkers" in 'World War Z' (Max Brooks), where the US-Army had one of its darkest hours ... /edit ends

All the best!
Liam

tl;rd

[Hoff4D]

My only problem with that is it just seems kinda "comic book-ish" to me, which for the level and degree of reality put into the story would be just too hard to swallow. Like the geneticist, or terrorist group thing, or so many other ideas (excluding the growth and mutation stuff), I just can't buy into most if not any of them. The simplest and most believable idea to me is that this shit just happened, and now they gotta deal with it, maybe never having found out exactly what caused it except for best guesses, and by the end everybody's just gotta start over and get on with their lives having collectively experienced a near extinction event. That doesn't mean some crazy shit isn't going to happen from now till then.

I understand the refusal to accept on those grounds, however, whatever theory you subscribe to, the Inklings have a number on them...I can accept DNA mutations via some biological release of the planet itself having resulted with NO human interaction (or whatever reason you believe having nothing to do with human input), but a number on the skin necessitates human intervention, IMO

[Robzombie]

I understand the refusal to accept on those grounds, however, whatever theory you subscribe to, the Inklings have a number on them...I can accept DNA mutations via some biological release of the planet itself having resulted with NO human interaction (or whatever reason you believe having nothing to do with human input), but a number on the skin necessitates human intervention, IMO

No, in the The Devils Workshop it was pretty obvious that Ink was grooming (not mutating or genetically altering) zombies, including sharpening of nails and tatooing, thats where the numbers came from.