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  1. #11
    Robzombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drogon Malice View Post
    effectively the bullets are molded in a special bullet making tool via melted down led, maybe not on an industrial level but at least by hand. using this tool and this method you can replace led with steel and effectively then have armor piercing bullets, the case will be ejected but instead of a led bullet its a steel bullet.
    Just thought I'd mention quickly, the melting point of steel is around 2500 deg F, which would make it extremely difficult to do what your saying especially with no industrial capacity. I don't think IF anyone could melt steel that they would want to even handle it with a manual bullet maker. Lead melts very easily on the other hand.
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  2. #12
    Drogon Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhysicsLB View Post
    Scientifically, it would make a lot of sense if both saul and tanya were immune. Passing on immunities/physical advantages to your offspring is how adaptation works. If momma is immune, it stands to reason that her son would as well.

    Also, look at how the zombies change: increased bone density, additional arteries on the heart, improved senses (particularly smell), greater stength, bulletproof skin? Doesnt sound like this is neurological. Whatever this infection is, it definitely has mutanagenic properties.

    I think its still a bit too early to tell exactly what the zombie plague is.
    well i did talk about how the infection uses body fat, i did a seperate post on that actually in another theory about the difference between trans fats and another type of fat. but what ever it is, no one seems to be immune.

    if Tanya and Saul we're immune in some way they would of had to of been exposed to it time and time again slowly over long periods of time to get a resistance. yes there both medical professionals, but then it becomes a bit like the walking dead and everyone has it type of deal, i don't think that's the case. to be honest i always thought it was a mutation and thus maybe some kind of radiation enduced event caused it, in my other theory post i speculated a little bit on solar radiation perhaps a solar flare, but then again.... think about it "Radon Labs"

    Radon aka radiation, maybe a mutation of something pre-existing, perhaps something like mad cow disease but body fats are usually everywhere on the body, the brain itself is mainly fat i believe. i do find it odd that there would be people conveniently immune to it in the story, if that was the case. given we can establish this is a mutation. i did initially think it was just the dawn of a new mutated species, yet it can be spread via blood, maybe blood infection is all it is.

    oh and also the Pheramon theory is a good one and explains a lot, but seriously, how could they smell something so far away, if they could smell you like that, wouldn't Angel, Burt AND Saul all been attacked on the roof the night they found burt, wouldn't that whole herd just gone for them and climbed up some how, there also smart they could of stormed the roof even by going through the building.

    its possible but unlikely, the brain would of had to mutate drastically as well as the body. new nasal receptors and such sprouted and made stronger in the nose, even then the brain needs to change accordingly, such a violent mutation right off the bat, doesn't make much sense. i think we are missing something.

    but on the topic of saul's supposed immunity....

    Tommy has Celiac Disease
    gets some of tommy's blood in him, the infected blood no doubt and starts his slow turning process.

    tommy doesn't eat glutin, so lots of meat and veg for the kid, strong iron contents and such like i said before...... and incidently burt tells saul about the time a tuna sandwhich saved his life, the clues are subtle and for a while point towards diet, even the towers food supply is conviently short and is a back ground issue, i think those are clues. so perhaps some kind of Omega 3 infection, tuna has a lot of omega 3, the brain consists of omega 3 to some extent and i would imagine so does the nervous system (but that I'm not sure) unless its some kind of omega 3 infection which is a specific type of fat which brings me to one of the points about it i always had it would make some kind of sense built on there, like a virus mutates into complex organism, thrives in omega 3 and mutates the host body like a parasitic virus causing mutation as side effect.

    there's a lot of signs around that time regarding food, even then, Saul and angel go get MRE's which initially was the thing that made me look at the different types of fat incidentally they fought a great big fat behemoth. the sub hints towards fat are huge. also another interesting thing is that Saul grabbed some "Tuna" right at the start when raiding for supplies with Angel.

    i think it does hold merit but without working it out properly and looking at it in a lab we won't know how it works, which won't happen until after the final fight and Tanya gets to break into a hospital and analyze everything under the right type of microscopes and X-ray machines, etc.

  3. #13
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    If you expose a large enough population to a disease, there will be those who are immune to it. It comes from genetic variation. You see it all the time in lesser life forms, like bacteria. It's why things like lysol spray are only 99.9% effective. If Tanya is one of those people who is "lucky" enough to have a natural immunity, there is a good chance she would have passed it onto saul.

    A mutated mad cow disease seems unlikely. Mad cow deteriorates the brain matter, it doesnt fundamentally alter it.
    However, my ears also perked up at the mention of Radon Labs. I doubt they are completely innocent.

    As for the pheramone thing, you cant really dispute that. Those guys WERE attacked on the roof by the radon labs guy. Also, the pheramones are contained in sweat. If you aren't sweating, you aren't releasing pheramones. This of course doesn't take into account any other odors that are present (cologne, smoke, rotting flesh). Also, you need to be downwind of the source. So wind would play a factor. I believe in their experiment they even said the wind changed before the zeds showed up. Additionally, humans are already sensitive to pheromones. It helps us choose a mate. So increasing the sensitivity would likely be a small change when compared to some others...Also, we know this disease drastically alters the body, why would the brain be any different? It CLEARLY changes bone density, muscular structure etc etc...to say it should have no effect on the brain seems counterintuitive.

    Burning through the bodies fat reserves to power the change seems quite likely. We never hear about "fat" zombies, and they obviously have a huge appetite (they eat people, their own, and regular food).

    I wont rule out Celiac Disease playing a part (mostly because we dont really know whats happening on a microscopic level), but diet playing a part also seems unlikely. While tommy couldnt eat glutein, there wasnt any special food that only he was eating, he was just getting more veggies (going on the "stolen food" they found in his room). Instead, look at the source of his infection: Leaper guts getting in a small cut. His rate of infection was slow most likely because the vector for infection was similarly small.

    I'd also like to point out something else: Depending on how tanya and saul gained their supposed immunity, it determines what type of infection the "plague" is.

    If the antibiotics saved them: Bacterial
    If its genetic: Viral
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  4. #14
    Drogon Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robzombie View Post
    Just thought I'd mention quickly, the melting point of steel is around 2500 deg F, which would make it extremely difficult to do what your saying especially with no industrial capacity. I don't think IF anyone could melt steel that they would want to even handle it with a manual bullet maker. Lead melts very easily on the other hand.
    Like i Said i'm No Pro, dispite the fact i may have a theory i don't have a complete knowledge of metallurgy or firearms. how ever that wasn't the point, the point was to share what little knowledge i had in place, i have also heard of steel bullets being manufactured.

  5. #15
    Drogon Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhysicsLB View Post
    If you expose a large enough population to a disease, there will be those who are immune to it. It comes from genetic variation. You see it all the time in lesser life forms, like bacteria. It's why things like lysol spray are only 99.9% effective. If Tanya is one of those people who is "lucky" enough to have a natural immunity, there is a good chance she would have passed it onto saul.

    A mutated mad cow disease seems unlikely. Mad cow deteriorates the brain matter, it doesnt fundamentally alter it.
    However, my ears also perked up at the mention of Radon Labs. I doubt they are completely innocent.

    As for the pheramone thing, you cant really dispute that. Those guys WERE attacked on the roof by the radon labs guy. Also, the pheramones are contained in sweat. If you aren't sweating, you aren't releasing pheramones. This of course doesn't take into account any other odors that are present (cologne, smoke, rotting flesh). Also, you need to be downwind of the source. So wind would play a factor. I believe in their experiment they even said the wind changed before the zeds showed up. Additionally, humans are already sensitive to pheromones. It helps us choose a mate. So increasing the sensitivity would likely be a small change when compared to some others...Also, we know this disease drastically alters the body, why would the brain be any different? It CLEARLY changes bone density, muscular structure etc etc...to say it should have no effect on the brain seems counterintuitive.

    Burning through the bodies fat reserves to power the change seems quite likely. We never hear about "fat" zombies, and they obviously have a huge appetite (they eat people, their own, and regular food).

    I wont rule out Celiac Disease playing a part (mostly because we dont really know whats happening on a microscopic level), but diet playing a part also seems unlikely. While tommy couldnt eat glutein, there wasnt any special food that only he was eating, he was just getting more veggies (going on the "stolen food" they found in his room). Instead, look at the source of his infection: Leaper guts getting in a small cut. His rate of infection was slow most likely because the vector for infection was similarly small.

    I'd also like to point out something else: Depending on how tanya and saul gained their supposed immunity, it determines what type of infection the "plague" is.

    If the antibiotics saved them: Bacterial
    If its genetic: Viral
    yeah i know all this stuff, its been the most popular theory on the forum's I'm not disputing it I'm just thinking maybe we should shelf it and look at it from a different angle, its not much to go on but the premise of heat has been active the whole time and when it got cold the infected attacked a group, for food or shelter i don't think anyone knows, perhaps both, but i digress. i just think its worth looking at the other factors before we all unanimously agree its definitely the Pheramone, how do we not know they have some kind of heat vision, we all know their eyes are different, perhaps some kind of new lenses are formed and they get some kind of heat vision like Predator, maybe the eyes being different isn't a sign of being infected, what if its to do with their hunting and vision, instead of human eyes they have.... lets say some kind of slit eyes like how humans have round pupils but i think crocodiles and cats have slit eyes, and i understand that the characters are talking about the whites of their eyes, not pupils, i was using pupils as an example to get my point across.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhysicsLB View Post
    I'd also like to point out something else: Depending on how tanya and saul gained their supposed immunity, it determines what type of infection the "plague" is.

    If the antibiotics saved them: Bacterial
    If its genetic: Viral
    my point is why speculate when we should be analyzing what we can to determin what is is by analyzing the symptoms, given its nothing we've seen before and a mutation and what at the very least it COULD of mutated from.

    remember it is a story, KC will probably just say he made something up because it was cool, if there's actually something CLOSE to this out there, i would really start gearing up for this to happen now. seriously, I'd start storing supplies
    Last edited by Drogon Malice; Jun 12th, 2013 at 05:13 PM.

  6. #16
    Drogon Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhysicsLB View Post
    Scientifically, it would make a lot of sense if both saul and tanya were immune. Passing on immunities/physical advantages to your offspring is how adaptation works. If momma is immune, it stands to reason that her son would as well.

    Also, look at how the zombies change: increased bone density, additional arteries on the heart, improved senses (particularly smell), greater stength, bulletproof skin? Doesnt sound like this is neurological. Whatever this infection is, it definitely has mutanagenic properties.

    I think its still a bit too early to tell exactly what the zombie plague is.
    forgive me i'm not trying to be any sort of rude when i ask this.

    but..... given that this is nothing like we have ever seen in our recorded history and i assume that stands in WA as well as Micheal says "we've never seen anything like this before" or something similar.

    how is it possible that a mother and son are both genetically immune to it, when its never existed in the environment to develop immunity from. typically you have to be exposed to something to be immune to it and to top it off, it is a mutation, so unless this is a dawn of a new species on the planet, that would make them genetically incapable of making the change from human to infected. how can you explain genetic supremacy without any idea of genetic background, genetic heritage other than what momma's got and where could anywhere in the past they have been exposed to it to develop immunity. if its not genetic supremacy its a genetic flaw, which seems a stretch. this thing spreads like AIDs via blood and has never been seen before and some how we're led to believe they're immune through genetics? that doesn't even make sense. have you ever met anyone who is genetically immune to AIDs?

  7. #17
    Witch_Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drogon Malice View Post
    how is it possible that a mother and son are both genetically immune to it, when its never existed in the environment to develop immunity from. typically you have to be exposed to something to be immune to it and to top it off, it is a mutation, so unless this is a dawn of a new species on the planet, that would make them genetically incapable of making the change from human to infected. how can you explain genetic supremacy without any idea of genetic background, genetic heritage other than what momma's got and where could anywhere in the past they have been exposed to it to develop immunity. if its not genetic supremacy its a genetic flaw, which seems a stretch. this thing spreads like AIDs via blood and has never been seen before and some how we're led to believe they're immune through genetics? that doesn't even make sense. have you ever met anyone who is genetically immune to AIDs?
    To borrow a phrase, "It only takes one." By 'one' I'm referring to an individual or a small percentage of a population that has a natural immunity that passes it along to a population of it's descendants. Looking back at PhysicsLB's comment
    Quote Originally Posted by PhysicsLB View Post
    It comes from genetic variation. You see it all the time in lesser life forms, like bacteria. It's why things like lysol spray are only 99.9% effective. If Tanya is one of those people who is "lucky" enough to have a natural immunity, there is a good chance she would have passed it onto saul.
    if a large section of the population that is not immune is wiped out, then the small part that is immune will will now be a large part of the survivors. As the survivors begin to increase in numbers, a greater percentage of their descendents will be immune to the next mass exposure. This is how a population gains immunity.

    As for an individual, if a person is exposed to some disease-causing agent in a small amount, then that person's immune system adapts anti-bodies to fight it off.

    However, a genetic immunity does not need a prior exposure. The agent could attack certain proteins that an individual does not produce, or an individual may create a certain protein that impedes the agent. So, an individual need not to have had prior exposure to be immune to something, even if it is new. Another fact to note is that different populations of people have varying degrees of genetic diversity. Sub-Saharan Africans have the greatest and (Asians?) have the least.
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  8. #18
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    Infared vision is a flawed theory. Zeds are alive, not dead. Therefore they generate body heat. There would be no way of differentiating between Zed, and non-Zed with infared vision. Not to mention, they're in LA in the summer when the outbreak occurs. The amount of latent heat trapped in concrete/tarmac would totally screw their vision. Also, you'd see a moth-like behavior of running into fire and i haven't seen any Zeds doing a buddhist protest yet.

    Genetic Immunity is basic biology. Also, AIDS isn't a valid example. It's only present in a relatively small amount of the global population. Besides that, AIDS isnt the lethal vector. It weakens the immune system and allows other infections to run rampant. If you were immune to AIDS you would never even know you had been exposed.

    Here's a better example: The Bubonic Plague.
    It's Estimated to have killed 30-60% of the European population, if genetic immunity didnt exist (much like you seem to think) then why didnt it wipe out 100%? There wasnt anything like it before, it was the first major plague to affect mankind. By your line of reasoning it should have wiped us out.

    As for the bacterial/viral thing: that isn't conjecture, it's fact. Anti-biotics dont do squat against a virus, and conversely, without them bacterial infections can run rampant. The only other possibility is a parasite but that seems unlikely. Also, not using conjecture on a topic like this is just silly. Your entrie theory would then be invalid because it's just that: conjecture.

    Also, it isnt just blood-borne. The little ones weren't bleeding all over everyone, but they managed to turn all of Boulder.

    You asked people to tear into your theory and see what works and what doesnt.

    Things that I think you have right:
    Use of body fat to fuel the changes.
    Source of the infection may be some bad-ass version of some other virus/bacteria/whatever.
    Radon Labs is involved.

    Things that need more work:
    Heavy metals connection
    infrared vision
    virus turning into a parasite in the presence of Omega-3s (what?)
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  9. #19
    Drogon Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhysicsLB View Post
    Infared vision is a flawed theory. Zeds are alive, not dead. Therefore they generate body heat. There would be no way of differentiating between Zed, and non-Zed with infared vision. Not to mention, they're in LA in the summer when the outbreak occurs. The amount of latent heat trapped in concrete/tarmac would totally screw their vision. Also, you'd see a moth-like behavior of running into fire and i haven't seen any Zeds doing a buddhist protest yet.

    Genetic Immunity is basic biology. Also, AIDS isn't a valid example. It's only present in a relatively small amount of the global population. Besides that, AIDS isnt the lethal vector. It weakens the immune system and allows other infections to run rampant. If you were immune to AIDS you would never even know you had been exposed.

    Here's a better example: The Bubonic Plague.
    It's Estimated to have killed 30-60% of the European population, if genetic immunity didnt exist (much like you seem to think) then why didnt it wipe out 100%? There wasnt anything like it before, it was the first major plague to affect mankind. By your line of reasoning it should have wiped us out.

    As for the bacterial/viral thing: that isn't conjecture, it's fact. Anti-biotics dont do squat against a virus, and conversely, without them bacterial infections can run rampant. The only other possibility is a parasite but that seems unlikely. Also, not using conjecture on a topic like this is just silly. Your entrie theory would then be invalid because it's just that: conjecture.

    Also, it isnt just blood-borne. The little ones weren't bleeding all over everyone, but they managed to turn all of Boulder.

    You asked people to tear into your theory and see what works and what doesnt.

    Things that I think you have right:
    Use of body fat to fuel the changes.
    Source of the infection may be some bad-ass version of some other virus/bacteria/whatever.
    Radon Labs is involved.

    Things that need more work:
    Heavy metals connection
    infrared vision
    virus turning into a parasite in the presence of Omega-3s (what?)
    Alright, maybe i wasn't clear, and i hold my hand up to this i am Dyslexic and getting my point across isn't actually the strongest point for me, so let me go through what you said here and boil down to it a bit better.

    AIDs: the only reason i referenced AIDs in the first place is because its transferred via blood and saliva and can infect cuts and open wounds etc. how the zombies threw up blood and turned people and how it infected saul with some blood. that's the only point i was trying to make.

    Radon Labs: I honestly don't think anymore they are involved not unless Radon Labs is a big international thing like Umbrella is in the resident evil series, i point towards the fact we have evidence of "riots" happening around the world at the same time.


    Heavy metals: yeah i get it needs more work having a small fragment of a bullet which is enducing a small poison is a long shot i know but i was just throwing it out there as food for thought. (by the way yes i do believe in genetic immunity, its fact, it exists. what i was trying to say was in regards to the story it would be too 'convenient' if there was someone who was immune to it, now the whole blood line connection making two people immune, yes possible, completely do-able I'm just saying the placing of it, is to convenient if that's the case.)

    that honestly would feel like a cop-out to me and KC is a fantastic writer who's done nothing but bought us brilliance chapter after chapter after chapter, i just think its something else we need to explore

    Body Fat and Source Of Infection:
    yeah, body fat I've made my point on, glad you agree the source of the infection we'd probably have to research
    microbiology a whole bunch

    Heat Vision: i never once thought of it like that, you are completely right, it is a flawed idea, but again i was just trying to stimulate a different chain of thought about it.

    Viral Parasite vs Omega 3: yeah that was a stretch, just speculation.


    so do you then think the celiac disease has some kind of credibility? personally i think i need to sit down and just compare the times to when Riley said it would happen and when Tommy turned.
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  10. #20
    PhysicsLB's Avatar
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    Radon Labs: Im thinking more along the lines of it being the source of mutation in the zeds (leapers/behemoths/little ones). Either in an accidental leak of something (cracks), or a base of operations for whoever is actually behind all this (assuming there IS a someone, which considering the global scale like you stated, seems unlikely). Im leaning more towards option one because these special types only seem to be in LA. Both the colony AND Boulder only ever saw ordinary, run-of-the-mill biters. And something one of the army guys said: "They're like the soldier version of biters" (talking about the Little Ones). It really makes me wonder who/what is responsible for them.

    Heavy Metals: The presence of heavy metals has been shown to slow or even retard cetain infections (primarily looking at silver and it's various compunds), so I would say it's easily up for debate. As far as convenience of genetic immunity, that's completely dependent on whether the antibiotics had no actual affect. And as far as convenience goes...there have been ALOT of convenient circumstances throughtout this story. Also, to me it doesn't feel like a cop-out. More like an eventual outcome.

    Celiac Disease: I can't be sure whether it would have an affect or not, so I can't rule it out. The problem is we dont know much surrounding Tommy's situation. We dont know if he was receiving special food or just eating different quantities of what was available. As far as I could tell, they had mostly frozen/canned foods like veggies, as well as processed stuff like cheetos, which he couldnt eat. What about body builders who have a similar high-protein diet? What about vegans? There are just too many unknowns here at this point, but why even have a character with this disease if it wasnt related?


 
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