The State of Boston

[Witch_Doctor]

I am glad that the responses to this attack are mostly the same in the US and most parts of the world. Terror is terror. The comparison with 9/11 was one of the first sentences in German news. And although the scope of 9/11 and the Boston Bombing are very different, the core is the same: an unexpected event to raise terror in the hearts of people and to destabilize (civilized) societies by establishing more police-state-regulations on the one hand and distrust and suspiciousness between the people and peoples on the other.

Currently speculations involve terrorists coming from either islamic states, simply insane guys, or - and that makes me wonder a bit - radical US-citizens which could be malcontent with the US-government ... But guess what? I don't care, who did this. I simply wonder how people can do things like this. This is hilarious, mad, a feat of cowards, inhuman, selfish and terrible. And I really hope for the best for the ones in pain right now.

All the best!
Liam

As always, you provide a well tempered perspective.
All of the best to you, Sir.

[turbo]

Any anger is irrational, because it is emotional.
Although they might be criminals in general, that does not automtically make them bombing terrorists, just because it is the way it seems or people might share certain opinions ... Currently they are "suspects" - neither darlings nor assholes, just suspects.
And that is the way I look at it.
And I simply ask you, too, to keep calm. You and anyone should be glad and feel a huge relief that FBI and other public authorities are damn effing quick in finding suspects and dealing with the situation accordingly. It would be a lot worse, if there were no suspects at all at the moment and people would start blaming anyone because he or she looks weird or behaves crazy or just because...
But because there are suspects, that does not automatically mean they are "free for all" - neither for beatings with words nor with even more harmfull beatings ... Public authorities deal with them; and the public, which includes you, should discuss things, draw conclusions from it and simply act accordingly without stepping back into medieval times where suspects were meant to proof for God's existence and face challenges they naturally could not pass.

As funny as it may seem (put a G on their forehead and let them move through certain areas of the town, and if they survive this, they are free to go), things like this are simply no ground for any discussion or wellbeing of any society.

Now, regardless of this: Thank you for providing more information. If this guy really is a Chechen, what was the purpose behind the bombing, if he is involved in it? And who else was or is involved?

All the best!
Liam

I did hear on the interview with the uncle that when he had last spoken with the older brother he was looking into Islam. This was direct words from the uncle, not a news outlet. So that can explain some of it maybe?

[scbubba]

News outlets are reporting that police said the older brother, the suspect that was killed in the chase/firefight last night, was wearing an explosive device and carrying a triggering mechanism.

Doesn't necessarily make him a Boston Marathon bomber but it fits him in the "bad guy looking to kill people" category pretty well.

As for anger, I would rather someone express their anger in words than in actions generally. Emotions in and of themselves are not bad. how a person acts when feeling a particular emotion is the determination on good/bad.

Very hard for people, in Boston and in other areas, not to feel emotions after something like this.

Respectfully,
Bubba

[Litmaster]

Any anger is irrational, because it is emotional.
Although they might be criminals in general, that does not automtically make them bombing terrorists, just because it is the way it seems or people might share certain opinions ... Currently they are "suspects" - neither darlings nor assholes, just suspects.
And that is the way I look at it.

Are you serious? They were involved in a huge firefight with police last night, and were throwing grenades out the windows at the cops! And you say they are "neither darlings nor assholes"??? What do they have to do-- shoot you in the face-- before you finally decide to pass judgment?

And I simply ask you, too, to keep calm. You and anyone should be glad and feel a huge relief that FBI and other public authorities are damn effing quick in finding suspects and dealing with the situation accordingly. It would be a lot worse, if there were no suspects at all at the moment and people would start blaming anyone because he or she looks weird or behaves crazy or just because...

You're missing the point: they have already I.D.'d these guys. We know their names. Their age. We have several pictures. We know their address. Where they went to school. The only ones getting 'blamed' in this case ARE THE GUYS WHO ARE GUILTY!

But because there are suspects, that does not automatically mean they are "free for all" - neither for beatings with words nor with even more harmfull beatings ... Public authorities deal with them; and the public, which includes you, should discuss things, draw conclusions from it and simply act accordingly without stepping back into medieval times where suspects were meant to proof for God's existence and face challenges they naturally could not pass.

Liam, we aren't in a courtroom, and I am free to think or say anything I wish about what kind of people these guys are. If you want to be diplomatic about it and not speak ill of your fellow humans, that's your prerogative, but in my opinion these guys have lost any protection, regard, or rights the moment they devised the plan to set off those bombs.

As funny as it may seem (put a G on their forehead and let them move through certain areas of the town, and if they survive this, they are free to go), things like this are simply no ground for any discussion or wellbeing of any society.

Here I disagree. I don't want a single penny of my tax dollars going to keeping this guy in prison, alive, for the rest of his pathetic life. That's more than he deserves. I want him dead: slowly and painfully. If you don't agree, that's fine, but it doesn't make you right.

Besides, it isn't going to come to that: this guy at large is mostly likely going out in a blaze of glory, either at the hands of police bullets or through his own explosion. The question is who else is going to die in trying to apprehend him. I hope to God no one.

[LiamKerrington]

Litmaster: It's cool.

I am and was serious about what I wrote earlier. Our dispute here leads nowhere. And I am not interested in limiting freedom of speech of anyone. But I feel very compelled if someone, who is a suspect and who is the primary target of the investigation, is already blamed as the one being guilty and called sucker, fucker, d-bag, a$$h0le or what ever other insult one might toss into their direction.

In all honesty: I feel a lot of sorrow for the victims and Boston-folks in general as much as I feel a deep hatred for people being capable of doing shit like this bombing. But I also simply accept the fact that there is police doing, and there is the public and the media participating in all the investigations against whoever did this; and I am also willing to accept the simple (legal) fact that it is a court which will decide about the level of guilt and the proper sentencing for the criminal actions. I am glad that there seems to be kind of a hot lead towards suspects being mentioned in the public media. But pointing at those (still they are: ) people, "chasing the pig through the village" (as we say in Germany), and literally vituperating suspects by calling them with the full scope of the urban dictionary-insults does not serve the situation in any way. Neither does it help you nor does it support the investigation.

But this is just my little, humble opinion. And I see and acknowledge that you and I won't agree about the proper individual reaction to the suspects.

Besides: Tossing around granades in a chase and gun-fight with the police maybe makes it more likely that this particular suspect might have been involved in the Boston-bombing; but still there is only the accusation (at best) without any solid proof made public yet. Ergo: the (already dead) suspect remains that: a suspect, nothing more, nothing less. Call him an asshole, if you like; I won't join into this taunt, because it is sense- and very, very, very meaningless after all.

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

You're missing the point: they have already I.D.'d these guys. We know their names. Their age. We have several pictures. We know their address. Where they went to school. The only ones getting 'blamed' in this case ARE THE GUYS WHO ARE GUILTY!

Still only a suspect; the judge or jury or both in the court will decide about the guilt.

Here I disagree. I don't want a single penny of my tax dollars going to keeping this guy in prison, alive, for the rest of his pathetic life. That's more than he deserves. I want him dead: slowly and painfully. If you don't agree, that's fine, but it doesn't make you right.

If you disagree, then quicken the policework and courtsession by hunting down the suspect yourself and put an end to his life. This saves the police and the court a lot of tax-money ... But don't be surprised if the public response won't be the Medal of Honor, but a death-sentence against you ...

(Ok, I did it. I got into the argument again ...)

But now imagine: Imagine the probably or maybe very small likelyhood that this guy may be a criminal, but there is no evidence that he was involved in the Boston bombing. What then? Just imagine ...

Edit: Whatever your response might be, I am out of this discussion. I am sorry that I got involved into this discussion, and I am not interested in fueling more flames in this forum. Am still hoping for the best for the Boston-ites. /edit.

All the best!
Liam

[Litmaster]

If you disagree, then quicken the policework and courtsession by hunting down the suspect yourself and put an end to his life. This saves the police and the court a lot of tax-money ... But don't be surprised if the public response won't be the Medal of Honor, but a death-sentence against you ...

(Ok, I did it. I got into the argument again ...)

But now imagine: Imagine the probably or maybe very small likelyhood that this guy may be a criminal, but there is no evidence that he was involved in the Boston bombing. What then? Just imagine ...

Liam, it's fine. I'm not upset, and I'm not arguing. Ordinarily, I would totally agree with you-- 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty' and all that. But here there is just such an overwhelming amount of evidence that these are in fact the guys in question, the odds of it simply being an innocent look-alike of the terrorist is truly astronomical. I'm not advocating that the police simply shoot him down on sight. He should be apprehended, then brought to a full and fair trial. However, IF found guilty, then I wish him to be killed. I don't see how that is so unreasonable.


But again, like I said, it's not going to come to that. I'd be really surprised if this guy lives out the day, because I don't think he will just surrender at this point.

[LiamKerrington]

hi there,

Lit: It's cool. And I am sorry. I certainly added my share to this argument.

Having listened to the latest news here in Germany I am much better informed. And, yes, the clues and available information about the remaining guy are quite convincing. We will see, what's going to happen next. If he has the same attitude as his late brother, it may be very unlikely that FBI or police will get him alive.

The news also mentioned a third guy being in custody; but about that one there is no information available yet. Do you know anything about him?

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

Good news. You got the suspect ... Am hoping for the best. Congratulations!
This very outstanding investigation was kind of extraordinary and very effective.

Now I keep my fingers crossed that you got all of them, and no one else is on the loose; I also hope that there won't be copycat criminals/ terrorists ...

All the best!
Liam

[turbo]

That I believe is one of the scariest things that could happen after the whole ordeal, copycats. It could throw off the whole investigation. But it is amazing that they were able to capture him.

In my opinion, I believe he wasn't ready to die. He is very young and I think his brother started most of it and got him in way over his head. If he was the same terrorists we all see on the news, I don't think it would have ended the way it did.

Congrats to the Boston PD though, glad their people can somewhat rest now.