Does Kalani get a pass?

[yarri]

No, they died specifically because of Kalani. HE killed every single person that has died because of the attack by the mallers. Had he not lead them there, had he not betrayed them, had he not made damn sure that they couldn't fight back they all died. Would they have died later on? Maybe. All we know is that they ARE dead because of the actions of Kalani. Yes, protect your child and all, but only a moron would think that they Mallers would hold up their end of the deal. Kalani was stupid for believing they would and because of that everything that sits now is because of him. He can never be forgiven for what he did, fighting for his daughter or not. The second they took Hanna away from him, she was as good as dead. Only an idiot (in his shoes, not anyone here) would think otherwise and his actions are the sole reason everyone that is dead or missing is gone. The only reason. Crashing the helo into the rig wasn't because of his desire to save everyone, he said that he barely tolerated everyone even after all the work they were doing to try and save as many people as they could. Kalani was looking out for himself and Hanna the whole time, no one else. Thinking he could save Hanna was complete stupidity. He saw how they treated everyone and for cripes sake they were all murders and violent criminals, how could he possibly think they would hold up their end of the deal? He saw first hand what they were capable of, Scratch was hell bent on killing every single one of the Tower residents because Pegs killed her brother in self defense. Scratch attacked innocent people and they merely defended themselves and she goes on a murderous rampage. Kalani should have known right then that Hanna was as good as dead. He was an irrational, idiotic, backstabbing moron and he deserved what he got. Good riddance to him, they were vastly better off before he showed up. Hell, they saved his life at the risk of their own at the Arena and he paid them back with betrayal. Kid or no kid, he was a dangerous idiot that got almost everyone killed while insulting them and plotting behind their backs. He justly died, but he should have suffered for it in the process.

So what would you do if you were in his place do? Write her off?

[Adventureless_Hero]

@ Ray
I would say it is incorrect to blame Kalani for everyone that died in Michaels tower. Perhaps Tommy, Bill, and Ryan's death can be attributed to Kalani, but not the others. When the tower came under attack for the second and final time, that was no fault of Kalani's. That was Scratch being vengeful.

I can sense your disgust with Kalani and I agree with you on some points, but I don't see it as black and white as you do.

[Osiris]

No, they died specifically because of Kalani. HE killed every single person that has died because of the attack by the mallers. Had he not lead them there, had he not betrayed them, had he not made damn sure that they couldn't fight back they all died. Would they have died later on? Maybe. All we know is that they ARE dead because of the actions of Kalani. Yes, protect your child and all, but only a moron would think that they Mallers would hold up their end of the deal. Kalani was stupid for believing they would and because of that everything that sits now is because of him. He can never be forgiven for what he did, fighting for his daughter or not. The second they took Hanna away from him, she was as good as dead. Only an idiot (in his shoes, not anyone here) would think otherwise and his actions are the sole reason everyone that is dead or missing is gone. The only reason. Crashing the helo into the rig wasn't because of his desire to save everyone, he said that he barely tolerated everyone even after all the work they were doing to try and save as many people as they could. Kalani was looking out for himself and Hanna the whole time, no one else. Thinking he could save Hanna was complete stupidity. He saw how they treated everyone and for cripes sake they were all murders and violent criminals, how could he possibly think they would hold up their end of the deal? He saw first hand what they were capable of, Scratch was hell bent on killing every single one of the Tower residents because Pegs killed her brother in self defense. Scratch attacked innocent people and they merely defended themselves and she goes on a murderous rampage. Kalani should have known right then that Hanna was as good as dead. He was an irrational, idiotic, backstabbing moron and he deserved what he got. Good riddance to him, they were vastly better off before he showed up. Hell, they saved his life at the risk of their own at the Arena and he paid them back with betrayal. Kid or no kid, he was a dangerous idiot that got almost everyone killed while insulting them and plotting behind their backs. He justly died, but he should have suffered for it in the process.

That wasn't judgmental at all. As far your staunch advocacy for the tower being better off without him, well to be honest you're completely wrong. Without Kalani they never would have had the ability to fly. Without the ability to fly there would be no escape. War was coming to the Tower regardless of Kalani's actions. The Mallers would have found them eventually and likely the loss of life would be far greater had Kalani not taught someone to fly the other helicopter.

You can claim that Pegs acted out of self-defence, killing Latch, but that's exactly what Kalani was doing. Acting to defend his daughter with the hope of seeing her again. Whether or not you believe he was stupid is moot. I say the same for Pegs, Michael, Saul, Angel, Burt... ANYONE who made a rash decision that resulted in the odds being further stacked against the Tower. Everyone knows the moment that bad blood developed between The Tower and The Mallers. The moment when Burt popped off a shot at a mirror in an attempt to piss higher on the tree than Scratch. Nobody likes a show-off. Talk about a lack of rational thought, foresight and judgment.

Kalani may have deceived the people in the Tower, but in all honesty he had no stake in that world. He was doing what he had to do--through coercion--in order to at least try and ensure the safety of his child. Saying he was stupid for even trying shows that you a) have no children of your own and if you do would trip them to escape from anything wanting to eat you and b) zero sense of loyalty to your own family.

Kalani gave the Tower a means of escaping the danger the Mallers presented and went further by dying to give them a chance. Say what you want, but if he was truly a piece of shit he would have taken off the moment everyone else was out of the bird. That's a fact. He wouldn't have sat on top of the tower waiting to cart all their asses to safety, leaving his daughter behind in the process.

[Osiris]

Lest we forget how many times Lizzy put the tower in extreme peril or got someone killed.... P---

[zombeh-kitteh]

I'm agreeing with Osiris and yarri on this one...

While Tommy, Bill, and Ryan's deaths are Kalani's fault, he was only trying to save his daughter, and he probably didn't think that the War would even occur.

Kalani was probably hoping that because everyone would be drunk as sh*t or asleep, that the takeover would be relatively quiet and the new regime set up by the time morning came...but that's not what happened.

As for killing Pippin, he obviously did it because he didn't want any more people to be hurt, that and Pippin was an a$$hole. (I seriously laughed aloud when Kalani mutters "F*ck you wanker." I want to hear him say that right before he shoots him...that would be hilarious).

I believe he more than made up for it by training Pegs to fly, ensuring that they would have an alternate means of escape...oh, and sacrificing himself so that the few who did escape could.

I wasn't crazy about Kalani's character until these later chapters, but my mind has been changed since, albeit everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Some are going to see him as a hero, others will see him as a murderer. The same could be said about Scratch, when it comes down to it (not that I think she's a hero...btw).

I think overall, the good Kalani did outweighs the evil he caused.

[mem]

Kalani was bad. He was bad because they had his daughter. Any parent would do the same to protect their baby. This doesnt justify his actions as right. It justifies him as being a loving father who was trying to protect his child. His death justified him somewhat but he still did bad things. He knew and thus chose the path to make himself useful to the people he had betrayed. He was still a bad guy. If i was put in that situation I'd off as many people as I had to to keep my child alive. Any parent worth using our air would. That doesnt make one a saint. They still have to live with their actions. Kalani's death was how he atoned for his transgressions.

[Osiris]

This thread should have had a poll.

[mem]

[shiroidenkou1994]

Kalani betrayed the Tower. For that, I will never give him a pass. Hannah's fate was sealed the moment the Mallers took her away. That is no excuse. And even if it was, the better thing to do would've been to tell the Tower (or the first group) about what was going on, and prepare them to fight back. Instead, he took the chickenshit way out and people got killed.

As for being the saviour of the Tower, I suppose that's true. If Kalani had never come along, and IF the Mallers didn't kill them all (that's a really big if.), then they would have lasted maybe a year, maybe two. They would have petered out , losing one here, one there to the zombies or diseases or in minor skirmishes with the Mallers. The apartment building was never a viable long-term solution. Plus, he taught Pegs to fly and (presumably) gave his life in defense of the Tower. That's a good thing, so he gets a big 'thumbs up' for that.

Still, it's like if an emergency surgeon who had saved hundreds of lives suddenly murdered someone. Would you give the surgeon a pass for the murder? I wouldn't.

He did good things, and he did bad things. They don't cancel out, they're just separate things entirely. That's my take on this whole Kalani thing.

[Osiris]