Smart Ones and tool usage

Hi everyone,

I cannot find a suitable explanation why at least the smart ones did not use any prepared tools during the ambush on the colony. This might be just a very minor detail. However, I do not consider Ink's and Randy's was to conquer an intact new fortified colony, their foremost goal seemed to ... umm ... harvest the human ressources inside the colony. Well, but would it have been totally improbable for the smart ones to use simple tools and weapons like Molotow cocktails? In my perspective, the application of these and similar tools would have played a supporting role in conquering the colony. So, what do think, would have the smart ones been able to use these weapons / tools?

I doubt we're ever going to see the regular zombies using any kind of tools. The regular "biters" have never been shown as smart enough to use any kind of tools and even the so-called "smart ones" have never been anything more than kinda of clever (ex. knowing to take cover in the lobby of the Tower).
The only zombies that have shown any signs of some sort of higher intelligence have been the little ones and Ink, and the little ones don't really need any tools, they're the pinnacle of zombie "evolution," as close to a perfect killing machine as zombies can get.
But we do know (or it's at lease been hinted at) that Ink/TOWTM does use tools. He was around both times the zombies set up ambushes and I'm willing to bet he was the one that moved the cars into position. And then there was that whole workshop in the basement of the hospital with the homemade tattoo gun.

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Originally Posted by HardKor

I doubt we're ever going to see the regular zombies using any kind of tools. The regular "biters" have never been shown as smart enough to use any kind of tools and even the so-called "smart ones" have never been anything more than kinda of clever (ex. knowing to take cover in the lobby of the Tower).
The only zombies that have shown any signs of some sort of higher intelligence have been the little ones and Ink, and the little ones don't really need any tools, they're the pinnacle of zombie "evolution," as close to a perfect killing machine as zombies can get.
But we do know (or it's at lease been hinted at) that Ink/TOWTM does use tools. He was around both times the zombies set up ambushes and I'm willing to bet he was the one that moved the cars into position. And then there was that whole workshop in the basement of the hospital with the homemade tattoo gun.

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I agree that most, if not all, Zeds will go "tool-less". One note, you say Ink used tools but we don't actually know that. For all we know, the tattoo work & any other things like that in the Hospital could have been done by captives. We have evidence that Ink can have his minions take captives instead of eating/turning them (the Arena, Failed Tanya kidnapping).

And I think that might actually come back into play before the end....

I disagree we haven't seen zombies use tools. Datu fell into a trap made by zombies. Regardless of who created the trap, be it TOWTM or smart ones they've created something disguised well enough that humans fell victim to it. If nothing else, smart ones are waiting at the bottom of the trap to take Datu to the arena. I may be stretching but I'd say that's making use of a tool.

I wondered who lit the fires that Datu reported burning in the Arena.

I like to add that my question originated from playing Don't Starve, which is a quite an interesting survival game. The bottom line of this game is "If you can't beat it, burn it." That is why I mentioned Molotow cocktails. Does Ink really need the intact colony or just the people inside? Especially now, as there are in my opinion enough personnel available to operate the security measures which were installed to protect the colony. Can the watching posts and the other neuralgic defensive measures be run by what is left in the colony?

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

I disagree we haven't seen zombies use tools. Datu fell into a trap made by zombies. Regardless of who created the trap, be it TOWTM or smart ones they've created something disguised well enough that humans fell victim to it. If nothing else, smart ones are waiting at the bottom of the trap to take Datu to the arena. I may be stretching but I'd say that's making use of a tool.

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This. And don'T forget: They drove cars to create ambush sites ...
Also remember the zombie which started using the rope spanned between The Tower und dhe neighbouring building in order to get to The Tower. Ok, this may not apply as a tool in a classical sense - but technically ... a tool, granted: prepared by humans.

So Smart Ones and tools ... Yes, is established on the show. But probably (certainly?) not so much for regulars.

Best wishes!
Liam

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

I wondered who lit the fires that Datu reported burning in the Arena.

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Martin says that one lits them and others just moved them around. I have an idea who, but the question still stands.

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Originally Posted by scbubba

I agree that most, if not all, Zeds will go "tool-less". One note, you say Ink used tools but we don't actually know that. For all we know, the tattoo work & any other things like that in the Hospital could have been done by captives. We have evidence that Ink can have his minions take captives instead of eating/turning them (the Arena, Failed Tanya kidnapping).

And I think that might actually come back into play before the end....

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

I disagree we haven't seen zombies use tools. Datu fell into a trap made by zombies. Regardless of who created the trap, be it TOWTM or smart ones they've created something disguised well enough that humans fell victim to it. If nothing else, smart ones are waiting at the bottom of the trap to take Datu to the arena. I may be stretching but I'd say that's making use of a tool.

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Manipulations objects, manipulation others. Sounds tool-like to me.

Yeah, I concur to all replies thus far. However, why has there been this "bruce force" attack on the colony? Where was the cunning strategy in order to minimize zombie losses? Bottom line, are the smart ones just not so smart? Are are they only intelligent yet not creative? Or they are simply drones who have to rely on a orchestrating boss like Ink / Randy?

Hi there,

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Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek

Yeah, I concur to all replies thus far. However, why has there been this "bruce force" attack on the colony? Where was the cunning strategy in order to minimize zombie losses? Bottom line, are the smart ones just not so smart? Are are they only intelligent yet not creative? Or they are simply drones who have to rely on a orchestrating boss like Ink / Randy?

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I think it is a matter of how you measure the smartness of the Smart Ones. They are smart if you compare them with the average zomb, but they are not so smart anymore if you compare them with human beings.

Your final question is pretty interesting - especially considering that we have zero clues about the relation between Smart Ones and Ink/ Randy? What would make any of the two different from Smart Ones, or are they just "Smart Ones" who happened to be at the right place and type to become the leader/s of the zombos? But I think this has little to do with the starting questions, which is all about Smart Ones and tools etc.

As for the brute force attack on the Colony: Back in late 3rd season I was kind of wondering why (all of a sudden) so many zombos were around the Colony - and especially the zombies lead by Ink. Up until then I had the impression that the zombos so far in the south were (and probably still are) a different group which has nothing to do with Ink's army. So why did Ink lead his monsters so far to the south? Was it relly only mere coincidence that these things followed Glen and Pete to the South? And now imagine: The zombs see the fortification; and then they attack it like any other place - the Tower, Dunbar, probably even the Mall considering its fortification. All those locations were attacked by a huge number of zeehs. So basically them zombos stick to their basic main strategy to attack while attacking the Colony. And keep in mind: Ink was able to somehow get into the Colony and try to open a gate in order to lead his army into the Colony; he or his army just failed to take over the place. So you could say that Ink just tried to achieve something similar compared with what he did at Dunbar.

So much for the cunning and smartness of them zombos. :zombie:

Best wishes!
Liam

I'll concede the tool usage (trap, fire, car). Still doesn't mean that they are regular users or that they come up with much on their own. The trap, fire, and car could have all been under direct instruction/influence of the Big Boss Zed. Left to their own devices, I'm thinking that even the Smart Ones aren't quite that clever. We have one that figured out that he could climb a ladder to get to the meat on the roof, a few that tried to duck being shot, and one that determined that the rope was worth trying (it probably smelled like people/meat too).

The point? I'm not sure about the "smart" in smart one. I think the only real intelligence in the Zed Army is Ink/TOWTM/Bossman/whomever. The rest are, unless directly commanded/controlled, are varying degrees of "Get People!"

The Little Ones may be a different story. They don't act like regulars. They have more than just survival smarts if we believe the attack on Boulder (hit the command & control first). These guys are definitely on a whole different scale....

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

I think it is a matter of how you measure the smartness of the Smart Ones. They are smart if you compare them with the average zomb, but they are not so smart anymore if you compare them with human beings.

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I disagree with this statement. The zombies have proven to be capable of using basic traps that work effectively (Season 1, as an example). At the end of the day, I think the results speak more loudly than the methods that were used. Although it might not have been a complicated plan, it worked and that's what counts! This leads me to:

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

So you could say that Ink just tried to achieve something similar compared with what he did at Dunbar.

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I counter with: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Ink has his little ones, far and away the best troops in his camp. He may be attacking the colony with two purposes, two weaken/defeat the survivors, and to rid himself of the regulars, which at this point are just more mouths to feed. As soon as the walls were breached, he sent in the little ones, suggesting that he wants to turn as many survivors as possible into them.

Another thought about the way that these plans are carried out:

Most of the grunts on Team Z would be the normal, stupid zombies. It would be unlikely that they would be capable of carrying out highly detailed, or complicated tasks even if the smart ones, Ink, Little Ones, etc came up with a fantastic plan. Anything beyond "ZOMBIES SMASH" could be too complicated for a full-scale assault on something like the compound or Dunbar where high numbers come in handy.

Looking back over this thread sparked a thought. The mention of complicated tasks and traps reminded me of the convoy ambush site in the rain where Lizzie and Saul made their bet. That reminded me of the smell of the Zeds (smells like shite!). The smell is mentioned several times.

Now, the mention of the smell did not come up at all, IIRC, when Pinstripes was in the Tower. Nor has it been mentioned by people that were in close proximity to the Little Ones (1st gen or turned).

I don't recall smell being mentioned around Behemoths but I'll need to go back and listen to Kalani and Angel at the base to see if one of them brought it up.

Is that a further separation of the two types of beings? OZ's (original Zeds) vs MZ's (Modified Zeds)?

May not be pertinent to the story.... but that's never stopped me before! :D