Pegs and Marcus

Digging up some old stuff I wrote prior to season 3

Pegs claims to not speak Spanish. Victor / Fernando say Marcus twice when they first all meet up. How many of you picked out he name Marcus on the first listen through? Could you do it without Spanish? Fast Forward to when they meet Tanya. She also mentions Marcus. Pegs inturupts her and says wait, Marcus is in charge?

This familiarity boters me. I speculate she already knows him and his reputation

Of course I really start to go off the rails and fear Pegs is wrapped up with the Family because both she and Angel start to call Latch John. I feel good about the Pegs and Marcus, but Pegs Family is unsettled. However, if we have convict Family trying to reunite with "other" families, things start to make a little more sense. Again, this is my Apocolyptic cult theory which differs from the classic Mafia family concept

Pegs does have depths to her we don't seem to have explored. She understands guns, she just abhors them for some unexplained reason. And who knew she was a pilot? And why did Angel feel compelled to help her deliver Latch's body to the Mallers? Does anybody else think she's a Mafia Princess?

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

Pegs does have depths to her we don't seem to have explored. She understands guns, she just abhors them for some unexplained reason. And who knew she was a pilot? And why did Angel feel compelled to help her deliver Latch's body to the Mallers? Does anybody else think she's a Mafia Princess?

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*waves hand in the air and jumps up and down* I do, I do!!!! I hope we get a deeper look into Pegs this season. I just relistened to season one and I'm working on season two. I've been listening while at work so I'm going to have to listen again... I guess it's a good thing I got season two from Audible. :D And I really didn't expect the new endorsement by them.

Hello there,

Pegs is really interesting - as a character, as a person, and as the source for a lot of speculation. Only few other characters shared a lot about themselves to the audience.

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Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche

Fast Forward to when they meet Tanya. She also mentions Marcus. Pegs inturupts her and says wait, Marcus is in charge?

This familiarity boters me. I speculate she already knows him and his reputation

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I have some trouble believing this. Pegs never encountered Marcus. And Marcus as a name really is not that uncommon. Maybe she knew a Marcus, but she never could be sure if the Colony-Marcus-Wannabe-Starfleet-Officer is the one she knew ...

Considering how hesitant she was when she shot John, I am not so certain that she is familiar with guns; she may have become familiar since the war, because she happened to realize a couple of things.

Her relation with Angel may be the result of Angel having given her some "shelter" or comfort after she shot Angel - you know, like a friend offering you your shoulder. I am not certain if this is a solid base to assume that there might be more to it. Things are vague. But the idea of Pegs being a Mafia-chick ... Wow, that would add a totally different spin to her. And that would make an upcoming confrontation with Scratch even more interesting ...

Best wishes!
Liam

I'm not ready to jump into the Pegs/Mafia/Family tie yet. The strongest of the tenuous links is talking Angel into delivering Latch's body. It could have been some sort of Family tie but that would mean that Pegs knew about Angel's tie to the Family. She would have had to know that before Z-day or Angel would have confided in her after getting to the Tower. Not sure that happened.

The "No guns for me" thing with Pegs could have any number of causes from her past including personal trauma.

I think Pegs is going to figure in how this story ultimately plays out. It might be as little as a motivator for Michael to do something heroic/stupid because she is in danger or it could be something as big as being a key player in the ultimate showdown/reveal for We're Alive. Either way, I think we are gonna learn something about Pegs that makes us say WTF!?!?!

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

..Considering how hesitant she was when she shot John, I am not so certain that she is familiar with guns...

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You're right. I re-listened to the part where Pegs' aversion to guns first comes up (1-2), and she says "I've never shot a gun". For some some reason I remembered that differently.

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

...But the idea of Pegs being a Mafia-chick ... Wow, that would add a totally different spin to her...

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There's really no evidence for this, I just thought it would be cool. I mean, who would have suspected that Pegs could fly a helicopter, so why not this too.

I think Pegs likely asked Angel to deliver the body to the Mallers because he was the best and most trustworthy person available to do it. Saul was injured, Michael was with her, Burt would probably skull f**k Latch, Datu would have to drag it all the way, and Pegs was too chauvinistic to ask Riley or Lizzy.

But I've always thought the idea of a Pegs-Family connection to be intriguing. Angel told Kalani that he learned of John's name via Pegs, who in turn learned it from Scratch's screaming after he was shot. (Her name should be Scream, not Scratch) But Peg's nightmare made me wonder if it was simply guilty conscience or if she knew something of Family dynamics. Latch speaks to her in her dreams as if she knows something that we don't obviously see.

As for picking out Marcus' name within a Spanish conversation, well, she's in California with quite a bit of Spanish speakers. I actually picked it out on the first listen. I live around a lot of Tagalog speakers and often recognize names, places and objects mixed in the Filipino vocabulary.

After re-listening the the 'Marcus is in charge' part, it seems she is just establishing for the audience that the person mention in the radio message in the head honcho. Tanya just mentions Marcus' name without any introduction. His name is just too common for Pegs to know who he is.

Would there be an opportunity to reveal something like this in this season? We have a lot of character stories to resolve, would something of this magnitude be a focus of this season? My guess is we resolve hanging threads and focus on zombies and tying up story line loose ends.

My vote is sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a guilt ridden girl is a guilt ridden girl who happens to pick up on Marcus in the midst of a bunch of Spanish gibberish she couldn't understand etc...

Damn it guys! I should be thinking about tattoos...

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Originally Posted by scbubba

It could have been some sort of Family tie but that would mean that Pegs knew about Angel's tie to the Family. She would have had to know that before Z-day or Angel would have confided in her after getting to the Tower. Not sure that happened.

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Not necessarily, The portrayal of Scratch seems to indicate that she didn't recognize Angel right away. If a family is large enough, then I think it is entirely possible: I lived in the South for quite a while and Family reunions are quite a thing down there. You would often see them at the local park having rented one (or more) of the picnic pavilions and there would be multiple hundreds of people in attendance. And that is just one blood line.

Now, way back in my nooblet days, I postulated HERE, HERE, HERE and more recently HERE about the nature of "The Families." I have been of the belief that "The Families" were more of the old, even ancient secret society variety, rather than the mafioso type. That there may be multiple blood lines that could be perhaps distantly related to a single progenitor.

Given the cover art for Chapter 31 and the discussion of the rings therein... (Which I neglected to follow up on, hence my verbosity here.) Lizzie described the ring (Ch. 31 1/3 @9:57) as inscribed with Latin and having three intertwined rings. Lizzie also says, "Wow, it's sooo old." Now, I'm not suggesting that The Families are as old as ancient Rome, the use of Latin in ritual and ceremony was in vogue well into the 17th and 18th centuries*.

I would posit that the three rings indicate three bloodlines that are working to a common goal and given what may be 500 or so years of history, there may have been a thousand or more "Family" members. Thus, distantly related members may not (ever) recognize each other without the rings.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Would there be an opportunity to reveal something like this in this season? We have a lot of character stories to resolve, would something of this magnitude be a focus of this season? My guess is we resolve hanging threads and focus on zombies and tying up story line loose ends.

My vote is sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a guilt ridden girl is a guilt ridden girl who happens to pick up on Marcus in the midst of a bunch of Spanish gibberish she couldn't understand.

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Or this is just a great big Red Herring flavored cigar. Still fun to think about.


*(Particularly in Catholic mass... Angel was Catholic. "...Catholic school was so long ago.")

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Originally Posted by Red Shirt

Not necessarily, The portrayal of Scratch seems to indicate that she didn't recognize Angel right away. If a family is large enough, then I think it is entirely possible: I lived in the South for quite a while and Family reunions are quite a thing down there. You would often see them at the local park having rented one (or more) of the picnic pavilions and there would be multiple hundreds of people in attendance. And that is just one blood line.

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At some point, though, Pegs would have had to make the connection that Angel was Family and then probably reveal that knowledge to Angel when requesting that he deliver Latch's body. Possible, but I'm still not in that camp. Of course, we know so very little about the Family so it could be one of those threads similar to "the Rat" that will become painfully obvious in hindsight...

Speaking of the Family ring.


It reminds me of this:


with one of these in it:


So maybe there is something to the Doomsday cult deal.

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Originally Posted by scbubba

At some point, though, Pegs would have had to make the connection that Angel was Family and then probably reveal that knowledge to Angel when requesting that he deliver Latch's body. Possible, but I'm still not in that camp. Of course, we know so very little about the Family so it could be one of those threads similar to "the Rat" that will become painfully obvious in hindsight...

** Edited to keep the "quote/re-post" clutter down **

So maybe there is something to the Doomsday cult deal.

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Nice connection there. Although this is painfully stretching it, even by my foil hat standards; Here's another to add to the pile:
Black hexagon: Carbon, commonly associated as being black, a constituent of benzene which is a hexagonal molecule and further constituent to the previously mentioned Poly-cyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons.


Ooookay. I think that's enough internet for the afternoon. Time to go and get out of the house for a while. :)

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Originally Posted by scbubba

At some point, though, Pegs would have had to make the connection that Angel was Family and then probably reveal that knowledge to Angel when requesting that he deliver Latch's body. Possible, but I'm still not in that camp. Of course, we know so very little about the Family so it could be one of those threads similar to "the Rat" that will become painfully obvious in hindsight...

Speaking of the Family ring.


It reminds me of this:


with one of these in it:


So maybe there is something to the Doomsday cult deal.

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Either that or someone was really into Led Zeppelin.......

Or how about this... Pegs worked in a flower shop before this all happened, Angel gave directions to his girlfriends apartment building from the base. Could be at one point Angel stopped in at Pegs' shop and bought flowers for his girlfriend, could have been on multiple occasions. When Angel walked in he could have been wearing the ring, Pegs saw it and made the connection with John after she shot him.

As for Pegs saying she's never shot a gun could be a lie. With how good her aim was when she went to the colony with Michael and Kelly I don't really believe it. She says her father flies Cesnas, unless he was a private pilot for someone rich he was rich himself. He could have insisted that Pegs learn to use a gun to protect herself. I can see Pegs lying and saying she has never shot one because she didn't want to have to use one on something that was once human. How often do people actually get two for two when they shoot something with a pistol? I know I couldn't.

Just realized I've been a member for a year!! :excited:

So, I am relistening to Season1. When they confront TOWTM impersonating Paul in the hallway, Burt shot him in the chest twice. Pegs in all her first hand biter fighting experience, pleads with Burt to shoot it again because "it is not enough". Burt has killed lots of biters as they get back to the Hummer and then retake the tower. Headshots do not seem to be required. If they were and Michael did screw up the aim, he does not think a headshot is required. Peg does...

Seems to me Pegs does not know anything about killing biters, but she sure the hell knows something about TOWTM

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Originally Posted by scbubba

Speaking of the Family ring.

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Looking at the ring, doesn't it look like there are 3 rings on the symbols, perhaps that indicates 3 families as being part of "The Family".

Chapter 12 part 1 ~ 1:00

Peg's soliloquies "...let the GUARDIANS defend us." Interesting choice of words. She will not meet Marcus and the colony for another few weeks. Michael always refers to himself and others as Soldiers.

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Originally Posted by Lilydragon

As for Pegs saying she's never shot a gun could be a lie. With how good her aim was when she went to the colony with Michael and Kelly I don't really believe it. She says her father flies Cesnas, unless he was a private pilot for someone rich he was rich himself. He could have insisted that Pegs learn to use a gun to protect herself. I can see Pegs lying and saying she has never shot one because she didn't want to have to use one on something that was once human. How often do people actually get two for two when they shoot something with a pistol?

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I always wondered if Pegs shot the zombie that was attacking the car on the way to the Colony. As far as the plane her father flew, I assumed he was an airline pilot. She explains to Michael on the yacht that he was a pilot of a plane and not a ship.

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

So, I am relistening to Season1. When they confront TOWTM impersonating Paul in the hallway, Burt shot him in the chest twice. Pegs in all her first hand biter fighting experience, pleads with Burt to shoot it again because "it is not enough". Burt has killed lots of biters as they get back to the Hummer and then retake the tower. Headshots do not seem to be required. If they were and Michael did screw up the aim, he does not think a headshot is required. Peg does...

Seems to me Pegs does not know anything about killing biters, but she sure the hell knows something about TOWTM

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'Shoot him again' always had me stumped because I didn't think that the Towerites shot him when he first attacked Paul. They just locked themselves into a room and hid.

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Originally Posted by Lilydragon

(Pegs) says her father flies Cesnas, unless he was a private pilot for someone rich he was rich himself. He could have insisted that Pegs learn to use a gun to protect herself. I can see Pegs lying and saying she has never shot one because she didn't want to have to use one on something that was once human.

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Pegs' dad wouldn't have to be rich to fly Cesnas. He could be a fractional owner or belong to a club. Neither of those require large amounts of cash. And with the way she avoided guns up to The War, it seemed like she wasn't interested in shooting anything ot anyone - living or "undead".

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

'Shoot him again' always had me stumped because I didn't think that the Towerites shot him when he first attacked Paul. They just locked themselves into a room and hid.

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This got me thinking about TOWTM/Ink/Pinstripes: the recent "Puppet Master" artwork release before Season 4 shows a hole in his hand and Kc confirmed that it is a wound from where Burt got him as he ran from the Tower. That means that TOWTM's skin can be penetrated by bullets. Burt shot the hand with a .50AE - a big honking round. Burt shot TOWTM center mass with 5.56 rounds. The 5.56 rounds travel pretty fast. Most bulletproof vests/flak jackets/soft body armor won't stop them (unless there is a trauma plate in there) at close range - and this shooting was definitely close range.

So, I'm leaning towards TOWTM having something like level IV body armor on underneath the suit when he went into the Tower.

Now, I'm making some assumptions here that might not be true. Mainly that if TOWTM's chest could stop rifle rounds then his hand could stop long range pistol rounds. That could be debated....

Also, this really has nothing to do with the threads topic, so I should probably go find another place to post this. Hmmm....

Did Burt shoot TOWTM/Ink/Pinstripes with Shirley?

I hope not. Two hundred plus meters open sight pistol with a single shot. I will have to relisten. I thought it was a rifle and I even think I heard him fiddle with the mechanics. Brb...

Yea, I am not a gun expert and cannot tell by sound. But, does not sound like Shirley. I hear like a receiver charging, is that the right word? Then as he aims, click click click a few times. I figure he is doing something to the sights, probably range. Burt is an expert and maybe even doing some windage estimates.

Chapter 11 part 1 @ 11:11

Son of a bitch! KC are you that awesome and it is a salute to Veterans day or just coincidence?

TOWTM had body armour on him because he's a murderer that was in transport by prison officials from prison to the mental facility and would be a potential target for recrimination and must be protected while in transport.

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

I hope not. Two hundred plus meters open sight pistol with a single shot. I will have to relisten. I thought it was a rifle and I even think I heard him fiddle with the mechanics. Brb...

Yea, I am not a gun expert and cannot tell by sound. But, does not sound like Shirley. I hear like a receiver charging, is that the right word? Then as he aims, click click click a few times. I figure he is doing something to the sights, probably range. Burt is an expert and maybe even doing some windage estimates.

Chapter 11 part 1 @ 11:11

Son of a bitch! KC are you that assume and it is a salute to Veterans day or just coincidence?

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Ok. Definite correction to my post. Burt shoots TOWTM through the hand with a 5.56 instead of .50AE. I think my assumption still stands though. If the 5.56 would penetrate (over penetrate the hand?) then I assume the center mass shots would penetrate as well. So, the theory of some sort of body armor or steel/ceramic plates over vitals could well be true.

So, we have TOWTM knowing that he has a vulnerability and protecting himself. He still puts himself in a vulnerable position by going into the Tower alone. One headshot and he is toast, right? He went into Dunbar with an army that he let rush ahead of him. So he wasn't as vulnerable there.

Maybe, just maybe, when he got to just CJ left, he didn't have enough Zed shields around him to soak up all the bullets she had. That potential vulnerability may have led him to say "Leave her" instead of taking any chances.....

Probably not fully thought through or put together, but might give some insight into TOWTM.

Yes, but as Gonads said,Pegs seemed to KNOW that Pinstripes wasn't dead. It may be nothing but it's interesting, none the less.

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Originally Posted by Robzombie

TOWTM had body armour on him because he's a murderer that was in transport by prison officials from prison to the mental facility and would be a potential target for recrimination and must be protected while in transport.

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That assumes that TOWTM actually is Bill Roberts. Not confirmed yet.

The whole Bill Roberts/Ink thing could be a great big red herring..... Or it could be dead-on.... :)

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Originally Posted by scbubba

Ok. Definite correction to my post. Burt shoots TOWTM through the hand with a 5.56 instead of .50AE. I think my assumption still stands though. If the 5.56 would penetrate (over penetrate the hand?) then I assume the center mass shots would penetrate as well. So, the theory of some sort of body armor or steel/ceramic plates over vitals could well be true.

So, we have TOWTM knowing that he has a vulnerability and protecting himself. He still puts himself in a vulnerable position by going into the Tower alone. One headshot and he is toast, right? He went into Dunbar with an army that he let rush ahead of him. So he wasn't as vulnerable there.

Maybe, just maybe, when he got to just CJ left, he didn't have enough Zed shields around him to soak up all the bullets she had. That potential vulnerability may have led him to say "Leave her" instead of taking any chances.....

Probably not fully thought through or put together, but might give some insight into TOWTM.

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He DID have plenty the following night after the war. Although, he could have just gathered those who traveled there because of the noise and sweat bottles. Then again, there were scores of Zs at the arena.

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Originally Posted by scbubba

That assumes that TOWTM actually is Bill Roberts. Not confirmed yet.

The whole Bill Roberts/Ink thing could be a great big red herring..... Or it could be dead-on.... :)

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This always reminds me of every interview with KC where he emphasizes that he will not confirm or deny that the two are the same.

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

Yes, but as Gonads said,Pegs seemed to KNOW that Pinstripes wasn't dead. It may be nothing but it's interesting, none the less.

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I will gladly accept Grog as an abbreviation, but gonads is a little much...

How about I blows your minds. This is all happening in Bill Roberts head. Every time someone dies that personality dies. He is safely locked up in the menal ward and is trying to get better hence his mind reacting like there is some kind of outbreak.

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

Burt shoots Ink @
Chapter 11 part 1 @ 11:11

Son of a bitch! KC are you that awesome and it is a salute to Veterans day or just coincidence?

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This blows my mind

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

I will gladly accept Grog as an abbreviation, but gonads is a little much...

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Sounds like someone is bragging. :cool:

My apologies, sir. Grognaurd it is. :)

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Originally Posted by pmchawk

How about I blows your minds. This is all happening in Bill Roberts head. Every time someone dies that personality dies. He is safely locked up in the menal ward and is trying to get better hence his mind reacting like there is some kind of outbreak.

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Originally Posted by pmchawk

How about I blows your minds. This is all happening in Bill Roberts head. Every time someone dies that personality dies. He is safely locked up in the menal ward and is trying to get better hence his mind reacting like there is some kind of outbreak.

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That or Michael did go to that frat party and dropped some bad acid and is having a really, really bad trip.

(And uh, yeah. That gif. Not sure what to think about that.)

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Originally Posted by Red Shirt

That or Michael did go to that frat party and dropped some bad acid and is having a really, really bad trip.

(And uh, yeah. That gif. Not sure what to think about that.)

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Funny. Dang, I hope not.

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Originally Posted by pmchawk

How about I blows your minds. This is all happening in Bill Roberts head. Every time someone dies that personality dies. He is safely locked up in the menal ward and is trying to get better hence his mind reacting like there is some kind of outbreak.

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Like the whole Vacancy movie with John Cusack. I like... :)

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Originally Posted by Lilydragon

Like the whole Vacancy movie with John Cusack. I like... :)

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Identity?

which is kinda based on I Am The Cheese by Cormier.

I love John Cusack! Lloyd Dobler forever!

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Originally Posted by Hanniekuma

Identity?

which is kinda based on I Am The Cheese by Cormier.

I love John Cusack! Lloyd Dobler forever!

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You're right, I'm wrong...