I wonder about Pegs's reputation

So I've restarted my 2nd run through of the entire series to catch all those little things I missed the first time (like the catchy He didn't see it coming earlier in the first season that Victor requoted at the end of the 3rd, always love seeing that connection and continuity between periods of time in good entertainment).

So I'm 8 episodes into 1st season again and I keep getting these consistent wonders about Peg's character seems to be treated like crap so much throughout the series. I know the 1st season seems to be most harshest because of some of her actions (refusing to shoot a guy, not having much skills, and the whole dropping of the plant), but I feel like she still is not very respected or treated well up to end of season 3. For example, the events leading up to the escape of the tower at end of season 2 with the reactions and opinion of everyone about her driving one of the helicopters. I know the other event is minor but Lizzie and Peg's conversation at the end of ep. 36 didn't seem all loving on Lizzie's side (could be baby hormones?)

But I wonder just how is someone who just seems to be treated like absolute crap and written as a pretty worthless character at times (not shooting guns on free will, not having worthwhile skills beside flowering and piloting, and being kinda pessimistic about things, but not to the extent of someone like Kelly) is still alive at this point.

I'm kinda waiting to see what happens with him this last season. Maybe she will do something epic or cool during the final season (like shooting Latch) or maybe she will always be kinda the butt of the group with her usefulness and reputation with the group.

Just trying to get other's thought on her character and keep me occupied with something else to talk about on here.

Well, first impressions are often strongest and most lasting until something dramatic changes that. Pegs herself claimed to be useless. Since then she has proven herself and I think like any and everyone there would be a period of adjustment to these new circumstances (end of the world frikin zombie apocolypse!!) and finding yourself all over again. She has proven herself to some degree but due to her softness and first impressions will take some time for others to have full confidence in her.

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Originally Posted by Robzombie

Well, first impressions are often strongest and most lasting until something dramatic changes that. Pegs herself claimed to be useless. Since then she has proven herself and I think like any and everyone there would be a period of adjustment to these new circumstances (end of the world frikin zombie apocolypse!!) and finding yourself all over again. She has proven herself to some degree but due to her softness and first impressions will take some time for others to have full confidence in her.

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Agreed.

Working from memory here, but her "most useful" stuff prior to piloting the helo to safety was making a big sign (which may have drawn unwanted attention), sucking at cooking, planting a garden that ended up being of no use, and getting hoodwinked by the Colony girl so she couldn't spill the beans on the coup at the Colony. Lots of stuff for people to lose/not have respect for her about.

Then she comes to the rescue as a help pilot. Gets people out of harms way and..... abruptly disappears from the show for the rest of Season 3 until the finale.

So, those first impressions had a long time to take root and little interaction (as seen by the audience) in the story after she went to Boulder just doesn't give folks the chance or reason to change perspective of her.

Maybe we'll see a new Pegs in Season 4. Maybe she got some confidence after the whole helicopter escape thing and people will start reacting to the more current circumstances....

Or maybe not. We'll see....

Pegs was very important as a member of the tower group in my opinion. Well, not directly important - and I do not want to sound too harsh - but indirectly, she encouraged people by her behaviour not to judged as pejoratively as Pegs. It is really hard to explain, the world collapsed, zombies everywhere, however as long as you still have a better standing than others (i.e. Pegs), I think you at least think twice before you start to complain. Because you do not want to be the second Pegs. Hence, Pegs unintentionally played a vital role in season 1 - and to a certain degree - season 2.

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Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek

Pegs was very important as a member of the tower group in my opinion. Well, not directly important - and I do not want to sound too harsh - but indirectly, she encouraged people by her behaviour not to judged as pejoratively as Pegs. It is really hard to explain, the world collapsed, zombies everywhere, however as long as you still have a better standing than others (i.e. Pegs), I think you at least think twice before you start to complain. Because you do not want to be the second Pegs. Hence, Pegs unintentionally played a vital role in season 1 - and to a certain degree - season 2.

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In a way, she was there to make everyone else look good and feel confident about themselves

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Originally Posted by scbubba

Agreed.

Working from memory here, but her "most useful" stuff prior to piloting the helo to safety was making a big sign (which may have drawn unwanted attention), sucking at cooking, planting a garden that ended up being of no use, and getting hoodwinked by the Colony girl so she couldn't spill the beans on the coup at the Colony. Lots of stuff for people to lose/not have respect for her about.

Then she comes to the rescue as a help pilot. Gets people out of harms way and..... abruptly disappears from the show for the rest of Season 3 until the finale.

So, those first impressions had a long time to take root and little interaction (as seen by the audience) in the story after she went to Boulder just doesn't give folks the chance or reason to change perspective of her.

Maybe we'll see a new Pegs in Season 4. Maybe she got some confidence after the whole helicopter escape thing and people will start reacting to the more current circumstances....

Or maybe not. We'll see....

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Though in ch. 36, she made a comment that she was relieved that she didn't have to fly them out of Irvin, but then volunteers to help take the controls while they are leaving. I feel like she is a bit wishy-washy at times but hey, who isn't. I personally want to see her do something epic and cool this final season as I mentioned earlier. Michael's girl better get her some.

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Originally Posted by OldtypeM87

Though in ch. 36, she made a comment that she was relieved that she didn't have to fly them out of Irvin, but then volunteers to help take the controls while they are leaving. I feel like she is a bit wishy-washy at times but hey, who isn't. I personally want to see her do something epic and cool this final season as I mentioned earlier. Michael's girl better get her some.

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I don't know if I'd call her wishy-washy there. She was relieved that she didn't have everyone depending on her to be the sole pilot like when they were going to Irwin but was willing to step up and do whatever was needed to help out.

Pegs has a lot of problems with confidence, but she's always trying to help however she can. She just seems to be cursed with bad luck. The whole flower pot incident is the biggest example of this. Anyone could have bumped that pot off the ledge. Michael even says as much right after it happened and then says it's probably no big deal. Then the zombie who saw them calls for backup and all hell breaks loose and Pegs ends up on everyone's "shit list." Even Michael, who didn't think knocking the flower pot over was a big deal at first, turns on her for awhile. She just gets "pegged" (I can't resist a good pun) when the label of "the weak one" and ends up getting treated worse when she makes a mistake than anyone else.

As far as what her "role" is, I thinks in a lot of ways she's the emotional center of the group. And she's definitely Michael's center. Notice how whenever Michael goes into one of his funks where he tries to slink off on his own close everyone else out it's usually Pegs that has to tell him to suck it up and deal with the fact that everyone is looking to him for leadership (Early on Riley plays this role too, but it's been more Pegs as the show's gone on).

I think Pegs is demanding on herself - like: she wants to prove not only everyone but herself that she is worth something.
But since "logic" is not necessarily her strength, everything she does roots in either total naivity or at least emotions.

HardKor: I agree with you.

edit: One thing that drives Pegs a lot is to seek justification or justice for whatever she does wrong. This is especially true for what she did to Latch. Later she asks Angel for a favor to at least give Scratch the chance to bury her brother. And something tells me that Pegs is not really over her conflict with Scratch, because she was not able to ask Scratch for redemption personally ...

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

I think Pegs is demanding on herself - like: she wants to prove not only everyone but herself that she is worth something.
But since "logic" is not necessarily her strength, everything she does roots in either total naivity or at least emotions.

HardKor: I agree with you.

edit: One thing that drives Pegs a lot is to seek justification or justice for whatever she does wrong. This is especially true for what she did to Latch. Later she asks Angel for a favor to at least give Scratch the chance to bury her brother. And something tells me that Pegs is not really over her conflict with Scratch, because she was not able to ask Scratch for redemption personally ...

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I'm interested to see what happens with that. I just hope she doesn't get killed by scratch like angel did. Of course, I'm waiting for the war between Burt and Scratch. Never destroy a man's love of guns.

Maybe Pegs is a remnant of every day life. Often our fellow man can be found annoying and useless at times and shot the dirty look whenever their actions, however good intentioned they are, accidentally cause more havoc than expected.
Everyone wants to be the hero of the story, but realistically sometimes there are people who are just surviving and completing the layering of what society once encompassed.

Actually story-wise, I think Pegs rises up when the occasion calls, but her clumsy actions and words imprint deeply in the listeners' mind.
I know I remember the times I screwed up more over small achievements.

I am of the opinion that Pegs' on-the-fly (no pun) learning to pilot a helicopter (when she had previously only trained on small bush plains) and then saving everyone from certain death by piloting said helicopter makes up for pretty much every mistake she had made beforehand. Everyone would be dead if it wasn't for her... Think about that. There was no way they were going to be able to escape the Tower after Kalani's sacrificial suicide without her piloting the second helicopter. So, in all essence, you have her to thank for the continued existence of the show (not literally, of course, but from an 'inside-the-fictionworld' standpoint).

She may be flighty, fickle and stubborn, but she is a warrior when she has to be. Doesn't anybody remember in the Colony part of season 2, she was of the only people who had the courage to accompany Michael, and she was the one who found out about Gatekeeper's plan, thus saving everyone's skin once again (or, 'before', I guess I should say, because that's before the helicopter part). So really, in my view, her triumphs are far greater than her failures, which are not the worst failures a person can make in the zombie apocalypse. It's okay, Pegs, I appreciate you.

...Also, reading back a bit after posting, I realize that these things have been mentioned... Sorry about that, but hey, I have to put my Pegs appreciation somewhere I suppose.

All very valid points from our view point, the listener. But I think what was kind of being asked was in regards to the view point from the characters if I'm not mistaken.
She's done everything you said and is awesome in her own right, but that's not necesarily shared or known by everyone that interacts with her character, and may still treat her per previous perceptions.

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Originally Posted by OldtypeM87

But I wonder just how is someone who just seems to be treated like absolute crap and written as a pretty worthless character at times (not shooting guns on free will, not having worthwhile skills beside flowering and piloting, and being kinda pessimistic about things, but not to the extent of someone like Kelly) is still alive at this point.

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Here he says 'written as a pretty worthless character', which for me makes it more about how we, the listeners, view her. Most of the arguments have been against this statement of her being a worthless character who hasn't/can't done/do anything.

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Originally Posted by Anavrin

Here he says 'written as a pretty worthless character', which for me makes it more about how we, the listeners, view her. Most of the arguments have been against this statement of her being a worthless character who hasn't/can't done/do anything.

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Oh okay, yup sure. I think I focused more on the 'treated like absolute crap' part of it so I took it from what the characters are thinking or doing. I havn't really noticed listeners treating her or thinking of her always in a bad light so I just didn't see it like that, but I'm someone who likes all the characters, even the ones that piss me off, all except that bitch Scratch, lol.

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Originally Posted by Robzombie

All very valid points from the our view point, the listener. But I think what was kind of being asked was in regards to the view point from the characters if I'm not mistaken.
She's done everything you said and is awesome in her own right, but that's not necesarily shared or known by everyone that interacts with her character, and may still treat her per previous perceptions.

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Very true, Pegs has done a lot of things to prove her worth for us as listeners, but she seems stuck with regards to the perceptions of the other characters. I guess first impressions just seem to stick.

When she first appeared she tried to attach herself to Riley to the point that Riley had to beg Michael to find something for her to do so she (Riley) could get some alone time. And then Pegs refused to use a gun early on. For the other characters that makes her look weak and clingy and no matter how much she grows or how much strength she shows, that first impression just seems to stick.

And then on top of all that, she just seems to have a streak of bad luck. Like I said before, anyone could have been the one to knock the flower pot off the ledge. Or she might have knocked it over and nothing happen. But, no, she just had to have the bad luck of getting them besieged by zombies. So now she's not only clingy and weak in the others' eyes but also a klutz who almost got them all killed. Poor thing can't catch a break.

And it's worth noting that the only person who didn't gripe and moan about her being the second pilot was Kalani, who wasn't there for the flower pot incident or see any other of the things that people got onto her about.

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Originally Posted by Robzombie

Oh okay, yup sure. I think I focused more on the 'treated like absolute crap' part of it so I took it from what the characters are thinking or doing. I havn't really noticed listeners treating her or thinking of her always in a bad light so I just didn't see it like that, but I'm someone who likes all the characters, even the ones that piss me off, all except that bitch Scratch, lol.

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That was the point I was trying to go for. How the other characters treat her and have this perception of her from what we hear. I posted the question to see what everyone else thinks about her and they agree with me that she seems to be perceived and written as being the black sheep in a way.

I, for one, would rather have someone like Pegs in my crew if a zombie apocalypse happen to build morale and what not, rather than someone like that asshole Steve who tries to get pregnant women get kicked out of the tower and made a bad criticism of Kalani's noble sacrifice. If you do listen, she does everything she can to a extent to help the group and is one of the least selfish people of the group, thinking of everyone else before her. Maybe it's why she seems to be walked all over by everyone else- because of her selflessness and open personality

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Originally Posted by OldtypeM87

That was the point I was trying to go for. How the other characters treat her and have this perception of her from what we hear. I posted the question to see what everyone else thinks about her and they agree with me that she seems to be perceived and written as being the black sheep in a way.

I, for one, would rather have someone like Pegs in my crew if a zombie apocalypse happen to build morale and what not, rather than someone like that asshole Steve who tries to get pregnant women get kicked out of the tower and made a bad criticism of Kalani's noble sacrifice. If you do listen, she does everything she can to a extent to help the group and is one of the least selfish people of the group, thinking of everyone else before her. Maybe it's why she seems to be walked all over by everyone else- because of her selflessness and open personality

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Good point. I think Pegs helps the group maintain a grasp of humanity. Her outlook on compassion for people (and cats) helps people remember that they are a part of humanity that has evolved beyond just "might makes right". Her ideals are a reflection of something that doesn't seem important to a lot of people in the show but that we, as outside observers, know is important in the long run.

And I totally agree, Steven was a prick....

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Originally Posted by Anavrin

I am of the opinion that Pegs' on-the-fly She may be flighty, fickle and stubborn, but she is a warrior when she has to be. It's okay, Pegs, I appreciate you.

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I agree, the show wouldn't be what it is without Pegs' Her presence is so vital to Michael's reactions to situations that you can't help but hope that they hook up and make babies...

I think Michaeal would have done everything he had done and said with or without Pegs. She's the opposite of him and they were never meant to be together. I think it was a situation where Pegs just fell in love with her hero type guy. Remember Michael really wasn't all that excited about her falling for him. They were a couple then and probably will always care for each other and wish nothing but the best for each other but I think that will be it. They will move on. Michael and CJ will be the perfect match. Although it may take some time to realize it, after all they'll be busy planning and taking it to the z's, that they will eventually pair up for good.

Micheal and CJ? No way, will never happen. Pegs has kept Micheal grounded throughout everything, If it weren't for Pegs he would have been much more care free, and wreck-less over the past three seasons.

Micheal has been attracted to Pegs since the second episode, If you cant see that anymore I think you need to go back and listen through the series again.

Uh, yeah dude ive listened to it over 3 dozen times over the last two+ years. Which absolutely does not make me any kind of expert at all, but just like you I have an opinion regardless of how many times you or I have listened to it. I think perhaps you just need to re-read my post. I said he wasn't all that excited to hear about her attraction to him, and thats simply because he has a hard time with that sort of stuff, and he was a little busy, ya know, the whole end of the world stuff. He was attracted to those brown eyes almost immediately. But now, they are over, no doubt about it.

Name me one thing that he did differently, or did against his own better judgement just because she was around. She didn’t prevent him from testing the sweat experiment, she didn’t prevent him from running off to find a doctor, or going to the water depot, or go to kick the mallers ass, or to go to save Lizzie, or even to say f-you to Kimmet and go to Boulder instead. So, I’m not entirely sure by what you mean by Pegs keeping him ‘grounded’, how useful that was, or how it’s in any way relevant to whether they become a couple again or not.…perhaps he just swore less than he would have, idk.

I think that Michael and Pegs are never ever ever getting back together (This is exhausting, you know!)

Michael speaks with his head, Pegs with her heart. I think they could come together again, if Pegs accepts that Michael is not half as emotional as she is. She only needs to recognize and trust in his loyalty, he would like to invoke on her as well. But as long as she does not get passed her purely emotional expectations, both of them maybe won't connect again.

But most important for both of them is that they both are heavily dissappointed about what happened at Fort Irwin: Michael wanted to be with her and expected her to stay at the base; and Pegs probably (and likely?) expected him to depart from the military service and join her in the life of a civilian. Before that they never spoke about the future; and when the time was ripe both stuck with the personal ambitions, while both also chose the hardest possible consequences from their individual decisions without even considering something like: "We will meet again, when the shit has ended, and then we will love us 24/7 ...". Thus it boils down to: They both need to speak with each other, understand each other and stop thinking in binary schemes ... Else their love will go on with failing.

All the best!
Liam

So, I tried reading as much as I can with the time I have. (I'm being naughty during working hours!) Pegs, to me, is quite complex but I do believe her true colors are gonna burst. I tend to think back on how these things that we are taught isn't her knack. I just love hearing her bloom into this intense person. Going from stand offish to taking initiative. But it is interesting though that flying the helicopter and one shot to Latch downs him has me thinking, "You naughty Pegs. What ARE you hiding?!" I can't wait to hear more about her!

Soldiers and zombies and ex-cons, OH MY!!

I think Michael and Riley have a better chance of hooking up than Michael and CJ.

I think that hope has a better chance of hooking up with someone than Michael and CJ

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Originally Posted by Amp88

I think that hope has a better chance of hooking up with someone than Michael and CJ

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If it turns out to be Datu, I will be creeped out

I was really growing to like Pegs - that is right up until the moment she told Michael she got his letters and met someone else (in 5 months). Was really hoping for true love after putting up with the tons of time it took to get them together. Makes their relationship seem a bit wishy washy to me now. That said I am only up to just after where Lizzy died. Sure wish she made it up to get Michael to appreciate her - but there hasn't been any follow up. So sad about this.

I think Pegs is demanding on herself - like: she wants to prove not only everyone but herself that she is worth something.
But since "logic" is not necessarily her strength, everything she does roots in either total naivity or at least emotions.
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One thing that drives Pegs a lot is to seek justification or justice for whatever she does wrong. This is especially true for what she did to Latch. Later she asks Angel for a favor to at least give Scratch the chance to bury her brother. And something tells me that Pegs is not really over her conflict with Scratch, because she was not able to ask Scratch for redemption personally .



I just hope she doesn't get killed by scratch like angel did. Of course, I'm waiting for the war between Burt and Scratch. Never destroy a man's love of guns.