The Seven Doctors who Played God!!!

Hello Everyone,

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this storyline lately and I keep getting frustrated with it because it seems like the author is intentionally steering the listener away from major sources of information. While the story is interesting enough to keep my attention I've found myself with more questions than answers. One of the questions I have is who EXACTLY is the well dressed man? I know most people think its that serial killer (Ink) that was caught in the beginning of the story but I'm just not sure. Even if it is Ink...who made him that way? No one in the story has bothered to do any home work on him and find out what happened to him before the outbreak.

My second source of frustration is the fact that everyone seems to be aware of the strange hot spot in LA where most people have a hard time breathing when they get too close to it but, aside from the Saul and Victor exploration, no one has deemed fit to really go in there with heavy weapons and find out what's going on. I think it obvious that a genius level mind is responsible for the different types of zombies being created....and I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were several genious level doctors working together to create the zombies in an attempt to remake the world in there own image. Ink is just a paranoid homicidal lunatic that they made into a field general to organize the stupid zombies into an Army so they can take out the last pockets of human resistance. The real brains behind him have yet to be revealed.

I think its safe to assume that Tonya is collecting information on the zombies in order to find a way of either combating them on a biological level or giving everyone a resistance to the infection but what I'm really looking forward to is how Hope's corrective eye surgery is going to save the day. The author made her blind for a reason and now that there may be a chance of her seeing again I wonder what her first sight will be of...perhaps a wide open opportunity to shove a knife into Ink's back? Anyway....its good to see that the story has finally progressed to the point where they realize that they have to search out the source of the bad zone in LA and destroy the lab where all these new zombies are being created. Bet you $5 I'm right on everything I said!!! LOL!!!

First of all, welcome to the WA forums!

I think you've got a shot at being right about having some big brains behind either the original Z outbreak or at least the modifications of the Z's around our heroes. The idea keeps going back in forth in my brain about big boss baddies vs natural/unintended occurrence creating the Z's in the first place. But as for Z modification since the outbreak, I think somebody smarter than Bill Roberts is in charge of that.

As for trying to track down information on Bill Roberts, the characters in the story only heard the name once and it was in passing on a snippet of a news report where they were trying to find out WTH happened to all the people in LA. In other words, that was a snippet for the listener more than the characters, I think.

Re: Ground Zero - I've wondered about who all has tried to get more info on that place. We don't know if the Mallers ever tried or what they might have discovered yet. We know CJ's crew tried to go there but didn't seem to come back with much of anything. Since Saul and Victor went, they've been kind of busy so that may be keeping them from returning. I have to believe that in Season 4 we will find out much more about Ground Zero....

Keep the ideas coming! The story is a good mystery as well as a post-apocalyptic survival tale. It's always fun to hear what other folks think about different parts of the story and where we all think it's going.

Also, I'd like to add that the Tower Gang was focus on learning as much as they could during the first season but that their priority changed right after their first reconnaisance mission to the arena. They were attacked twice, first by TOWTM then the Mallers. After that, they focused on repairs, supplies and excape. They did have an idea of where the outbreak started but they didn't intentially go there. They got sidetracked by powerloss, the scent theory then water suply before the arena scene. CJ's team was attacked sometime after their exploration of ground zero.

If anything, TOWTM shows up AFTER a group has some kind of encounter with his possible activities. The Tower Gang is attacted after they track the Zs to the arena (the Zs knew they were being tracked because they set a trap using one of the trackers.) Sometime after CJ's team explored Ground Zero they were attacted. They learned enough about Ground Zero to suspect that it was the source of the special Zs.

Someone on the forum pointed out that Bill 'Ink' Roberts was diagnosed as a Paranoid Schizophrenic and proposed that he may have had some early exposure to the Haze that effected him in some way that it didn't others during the actual outbreak. This person spectulated that perhaps Ink wasn't really a Schizophrenic but under the influence of some type of intelligent agent associated with the Haze.

Now that you mention it, I wonder if Hope will have something to tell when the bandages come off.

By the way, who are the Seven Doctors?

Mh.

Hello. Interesting thoughts.

Not much to add what scbubba and Witch_Doctor have already stated themselves. I just want to stress some few details:

a) as the listeners we know or at least think to know a lot more about Ink/ pinstripes/ Bill Roberts, while the characters on the show have had very singular contacts with him and were not able to connect things as well, as we, the listeners, could do or try to do;
b) CJ's team did the most to explore Ground Zero; and I recollect CJ mentioning something about someone being affected and having had to be euthanized before become too much of a trouble; that The Tower-ites did not explore or interfere with that place was simply the result of trying to survive instead of playing Sherlock Holmes zeeh-pocalypse-style;
c) there is little information about Bill Roberts available; he is a mad-man; but does that exclude him being a super-sepcial mad scientist as well? Maybe he is just the general to control the hordes, while seven doctors play god, maybe he is part of those seven doctors, the four horsemen of the apocalypse, or maybe just the single one anti-christ doin' all this; based on when the first special zeehs are mentioned, which is the runner at the Lizzy-Saul-Burt-tanker-mission, which according to the timeline in the WA-wiki was on 25th June, thus seven weeks into the zeeh-pocalypse, there was enough time for anyone/ anything to develop 'things'; the special zeehs were and are rare (exception: Boulder/Irwin), and they 'occurred' seldom as well - at least compared with the regulars;
d) crackpot: Tanya and Hope - Hope is a very intelligent zeeh, having been infected when CJ's tower was attacked; Tanya realized it when Hope was brought into Tanya's hospital by looking at Hope's eyes; then Tanya started to treat Hope, the antibiotics worked well enough to keep Hope on the human-level; in this crackpot-theory Hope would be a slow turner; maybe Tanya was bitten by Hope; and Tanya covers or protects Hope by telling people, the slow turner was euthanzied back then, because Tanya is glad to having saved a young girl's life and wouldn't want to see her killed due to too much scepticism; big flaw of this theory: What did the doctors in Boulder do and what would they have recognized on Hope, if Hope is/ was a former zombie?

Anyway - my 2c.

About Kc intentionally leading us away from the real information ... Sure. Complex story, many minor and major side-plots and individual stories to be told ... That's what makes it so interesting, because it leaves plenty of opportunities to think, argue, assume, discuss about ...

All the best!
Liam

The Seven Doctors is just a spiffy title I made up to catch some attention for the newbie. LOL!!! It worked!!! No...but seriously...do we really believe that Ink has the intelligence necessary to bioengineer the various types of zombies we've seen so far? This is the same man that had trouble entering the numeric code to unlock the door at the Tower...even after being told the code several times through the intercom. Hell...didn't they even write the code down on a piece of paper and tape it to the keypad? Unlikely at best....but...Liam made an interesting comment. What if the mist in LA was some kind of super intelligence that overwhelmed Ink and took over his body? I could see how that would be possible and allow Ink to have the combined intellect of every mind in the cloud. Okay...if that's the case then how did Ink tear away from the policemen that had arrested him and took him to the mental health wing at the hospital and create an Army of low level zombies in the course of one day? You tend to turn into the type of zombie that bit you. Does this mean that Ink can only make low level zombies if he bites someone...unlikely. Something is still missing here.

Another great point that I didn't think of was if Hope would recognize anyone in the group or maybe even Ink once the bandages come off. We know who Hope's mother was but we don't know who her father was. And let's not forget that it was never confirmed that Samantha was actually killed in the arena when she was brought before Ink. It was only implied.

My last question is about SSGT Cross. What happened to him after he shot that high pressure water main and blew up the room he was in when the Leviathon was coming after him? How did he get out with a broken arm? Oh...and what has "Skittles" been doing all this time alone in LA?

Hi there,

a) Ink ... I am not sure, if "we" think that Ink has the intelligence; I only say that I wouldn't want to exclude things as of now.
b) Ink #2. How did he escape the police vehicle? Maybe, it was just plain luck. Or: The car was attacked by zombies; the policemen were bothered with fighting zeehs; then Ink - still locked into the car - was infected; With his new zeeh-strengths he was able to break free. Or another version: The car/ van was attacked by zeehs and crashed into a building; Ink was able to flee the wreck, and he tried to hide in a store with nice suits; whenever or how ever he was infected and turned into a zeeh, now wearing this suit all the time because it was the last thing he had on him while being human. We'll never know, I think. But this would be three possible backstories ...
c) Hope ... Yeah, very good question - who would she recognize; and what if she sees pinstripes the next time?
d) Samantha ... Yep. What, if she is in the hospital or somewhere else - hidden away in a breeding-station like what was used in the new "Battlestar Galactica" tv-show (remember this facility in which Starbuck was treated?), and all that for the purpose of creating new special ones. Flaw: The number of special zeehs in LA has decreased while never being huge anyway, and not increased. Therefore this theory is everything but solid ...
e) Michael: There is no information about what happened to Michael between the explosion in the pump-station and his reappearance at the arena; the only thing that is certain so far is that his arm was broken somewhere in this shadowed part of the story; and based on what we know about Randy, it is at least not unlikely that, whatever happened there and then, Michael and Randy might have had an encounter there ... The broken arm might've been the result of the explosion, of a brute bash by the behemoth, or of something totally different.
f) Skittles was part of CJ's people; his real name is Duncan; when CJ's tower was swarmed by the horde, Duncan was able to flee the place; ever since he is on his own in LA. But we heard nothing of him for quite some time ...

All the best!
Liam

Hello,

I'm becoming much more of the idea that this Zombie invasion is really some mad scientist type plot rather than a global natural disaster gone awry. With that being said, can someone clarify for me when exactly Bill Rogers was taken into custody? The news report states that he is being transferred to a mental health facility but it does not state the date of the transfer. Therefore, Bill/MITPSS may have come directly from the facility and not been bombarded in transit during the initial zombie outbreak. Mental health facilities have been notorious for human experimentation in the past, which could explain why the MITPSS is so much more sophisticated than the other run of the mill zombies. That still doesn't make him the master mind after all. However, while I'm on the topic, the MITPSS may not have the motor skills to type in a passcode like a fully functioning human, that does not dismiss his mental abilities for a strategic takeover.

Lol just my silly thoughts on it and trying to piece together this mystery meself. :D

Hey katlero. Welcome to the forums!

Good thoughts about Pinstripes. Regarding his motor skills, it's interesting to see him in the first interaction out our tower where he fumbles with the keypad and then runs from Saul when he has the knife. And then to think of him as the mastermind that makes new kinds of beings. It doesn't add up. Maybe he's really smart but it took him time to develop fine motor skills?

Or, maybe there is more than one "smart one" where Pinstripes is more muscle than brains....

Very good points everyone! As for TOWTM's intelligence and motor skills lets consider these observations and assumptions.

1. Had trouble with the key pad at the Tower.
2. He is assumed to have tattooed the numbers on the Inklings
3. He can talk. "Help us", "It's Paul","Leave her.", "Go!"
4. He seems capable of setting traps for humans.

The 'leave her' comment comes before the his assault on the Tower. He seems to say this with some thought and intention as opposed to the seemingly mimicry of 'Help us.' or 'It's Paul."

"Leave her" and "Go" are most definitely original thoughts. But is Pinstripe the only one who can have them?

We know during Riley and Angel's experience in the arena when the regular zombies got Datu, they did not express stereotypical flesh eater type zombie behavior. They showed enough self control to drag him (and others) away as a prisoner versus fast food. That displays intelligence beyond the general primal instincts a la Romero zombies.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Pinstripe is not doing the cosmetic alterations to the little ones either. The motor skills debate has really triggered a "not possible" switch in my brain that I hadn't considered before.

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Originally Posted by katlero

"Leave her" and "Go" are most definitely original thoughts. But is Pinstripe the only one who can have them?

We know during Riley and Angel's experience in the arena when the regular zombies got Datu, they did not express stereotypical flesh eater type zombie behavior. They showed enough self control to drag him (and others) away as a prisoner versus fast food. That displays intelligence beyond the general primal instincts a la Romero zombies.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Pinstripe is not doing the cosmetic alterations to the little ones either. The motor skills debate has really triggered a "not possible" switch in my brain that I hadn't considered before.

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I does seem to be that Pinstripes is either capable of things in one instance and incapable in others.

As for Ink being a genius engineering zombies, I think is may be little more than exposing people or zombies to the haze in various ways. Skittles said that the normals do nothing but eat all of the time. Burt says that the smart ones tell the others what to do.

Unless the regular zombies can be turned into Inklings then the human population of L.A. may be virtually extinct. This is because there seems to be only 9 Inking in L.A. as opposed to the thousands in Boulder or Ft Irwin.

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

Unless the regular zombies can be turned into Inklings then the human population of L.A. may be virtually extinct. This is because there seems to be only 9 Inking in L.A. as opposed to the thousands in Boulder or Ft Irwin.

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I think you are on to something here. The little one that got on the helo from Fort Irwin in LA was able to make a few new little ones and one of those new little ones was able to make thousands of new little ones. The only limit in Boulder & Irwin being the number of humans hey could find.

So, either TOWTM was just toying with the Colony and brought his first/best creations or he has just run out of humans to work on.

One theory in my head goes back to someone's "like turns like" idea that a zed turns a human into their same kind. Maybe the little ones are what TOWTM turns humans into... Doesn't explain everything but maybe it's a piece of the puzzle.

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Originally Posted by scbubba

I think you are on to something here. The little one that got on the helo from Fort Irwin in LA was able to make a few new little ones and one of those new little ones was able to make thousands of new little ones. The only limit in Boulder & Irwin being the number of humans hey could find.

So, either TOWTM was just toying with the Colony and brought his first/best creations or he has just run out of humans to work on.

One theory in my head goes back to someone's "like turns like" idea that a zed turns a human into their same kind. Maybe the little ones are what TOWTM turns humans into... Doesn't explain everything but maybe it's a piece of the puzzle.

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Ah! Very good point. We have never seen him eat any of his victims within the story either. He kills them, and we don't know of any who escaped after being exposed to him, therefore we don't see them change. I mentioned similarities between Ink and Inklings in another post that included:
1) Height - Ink was over 6'6" tall as are the Inklings.
2) Tatoos - Of course, these are not transmitted via Z-cooties.
3) Broken theeth - The Inklings' seem to be due to being the possibilty that they are turned children. (Hey remember the zombie dragging the dying girl at the arena?)
4) Normal eye color - Ink has green eyes, Inkling #2 has brown eyes. They don't have glazed-over Z-eyes.
There are a few circumstantial similarities too e.g. the deformed hands/fingers (Ink's could be due to the injury he got from Burt shooting him in the hand as he escaped the Tower) or bullet proof skin (there is speculation that Ink was wearing body armor. He was being transported from prison to a mental health facility (Eastern Bay to Cain General?:tinfoil:)

I'd also like to bring everyone's attention to something Scubba said about Ink that I thought was very strange also. Ink ran away when Saul flashed the knife at him. That's a sign of fear...fear of being cut...fear of dying. It would appear that Ink wasn't made as tough as some of the newer zombies that have bullet proof skin. One would think that if he is the one creating the other zombies he would have given himself all the best traits first. I'm also very interested to know what would happen if Ink bit someone but didn't kill them. What kind of zombie would they turn into? I'm also wondering if my question was just answered in the season finale where we see another tattooed man who is coordinating the zombie attack on the Community.

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

Ah! Very good point. We have never seen him eat any of his victims within the story either. He kills them, and we don't know of any who escaped after being exposed to him, therefore we don't see them change. I mentioned similarities between Ink and Inklings in another post that included:
1) Height - Ink was over 6'6" tall as are the Inklings.
2) Tatoos - Of course, these are not transmitted via Z-cooties.
3) Broken theeth - The Inklings' seem to be due to being the possibilty that they are turned children. (Hey remember the zombie dragging the dying girl at the arena?)
4) Normal eye color - Ink has green eyes, Inkling #2 has brown eyes. They don't have glazed-over Z-eyes.
There are a few circumstantial similarities too e.g. the deformed hands/fingers (Ink's could be due to the injury he got from Burt shooting him in the hand as he escaped the Tower) or bullet proof skin (there is speculation that Ink was wearing body armor. He was being transported from prison to a mental health facility (Eastern Bay to Cain General?:tinfoil:)

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Hmmm, hadn't thought of that. My first thought was, "it takes headshots, dummy" and then later with Behemoths and Little Ones, I made the assumption that TOWTM was just tuff skinned. But with that fancy suit on, who knows....

Keep me wondering about the nature of this guy. Obviously he's got incredible physical abilities - speed, strength, quickness (you try catching an arrow shot from a compound hunting bow!). We're still not sure about his mental capabilities (based on what we know from the show, speculation aside for a moment).

He could be something different altogether and maybe found a way for his "creations" to exceed his abilities (at least in the physical area). Hmmm....

We do know one thing for sure about Ink...he calls the shots in the field. It doesn't seem to matter how powerful each new creation is...they all follow him. I'm wondering if this is because of the type of pheromones his body emits. We know the zombies use there keen sense of smell to find humans when they are hiding. Could Ink be emitting some kind of "Queen Bee" pheromone that makes all the other zombies fall in line? If this is this case....then this could be the weapon human kind needs to turn this whole thing around.

I'd also like to point out that the zombies are just phase one of a larger plan. I say this with confidence because of the scene where Michael, Pegs, and Vulture(The Lawyer) were on the coast and decided to swim to a yacht they saw floating off shore. The attacking zombies swam from an island that could be seen in the distance. They were described as being thin...starving to death. This implies a metabolism. If there bodies are burning fuel like ours do then they will eventually starve to death like any other living creature without fuel. I believe the zombies are nothing more than a tool to purge the world of most human beings...maybe all human beings. I'm not sure what phase two will be.

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Originally Posted by Ordinary12

We do know one thing for sure about Ink...he calls the shots in the field. It doesn't seem to matter how powerful each new creation is...they all follow him. I'm wondering if this is because of the type of pheromones his body emits. We know the zombies use there keen sense of smell to find humans when they are hiding. Could Ink be emitting some kind of "Queen Bee" pheromone that makes all the other zombies fall in line? If this is this case....then this could be the weapon human kind needs to turn this whole thing around.

I'd also like to point out that the zombies are just phase one of a larger plan. I say this with confidence because of the scene where Michael, Pegs, and Vulture(The Lawyer) were on the coast and decided to swim to a yacht they saw floating off shore. The attacking zombies swam from an island that could be seen in the distance. They were described as being thin...starving to death. This implies a metabolism. If there bodies are burning fuel like ours do then they will eventually starve to death like any other living creature without fuel. I believe the zombies are nothing more than a tool to purge the world of most human beings...maybe all human beings. I'm not sure what phase two will be.

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Pheromons and bees. Good idea. And yet I think it is only one piece of the puzzle. Considering the behaviour in the arena or the attacks on bigger locations (Dunbar, The Colony) I would imagine that there is a crude hierarchical/ alpha-leadership-structure available as well which might have its source in other things then pheromons. We know - pretty much for sure - that them zeehs are living beings and not totally mindless; else they would not be able to built traps, treat prisoners other then just devouring, follow simple orders. And as long as they are on their own, they act more or less mindless (though still with a rudimentary will to survive - just remember the hide and seek with Angel, Saul and a zeeh which got stabbed by Saul in one of the earlier chapters ...); but it seems that acting in a group gives them some kind of animalistic horde/pack/family- or very primitive hierarchical behaviour. Pheromons might play a role, but I think not the major one.
This is supported by the 'fact' actually that even "Smart Ones" may lead packs or groups of zeehs; thus "Smart Ones" have something in common with Ink; is it the pheromons? Another superiority? Or probably both?

As for phase one of a bigger plan: Maybe. Maybe not. Enough hints pointing in that direction. And yet it is really hard to tell what's going on ...