Sword vs. Knife inconsistancies

Ok so, I hate tooting my own horn but I have more than a few years of training in martial arts. Primarily, historical katana. So, when I heard the fight between Scratch and CJ some things about it kind of erked me. So CJ already stated that she knew how to use the katana and by the fact that she took out "them" so quickly it showed me that she is very familiar with using the katana. Not sure what style she was taught but basing my ideals on this there is no way Scratch should have come out on top or even stood a chance.

CJ had several advantages.

1.) Length of blade- a typical katana is around 27 inches long. A Typical knife (even a big fancy one) is usually about 3 to 6 inches long (Maybe 10 but ten inches is pushing it).

2.) Style- I learned historical sword play so everything I know is based on one attack. There was no clashing blades together because all that did was wear them down, this was only done when necessary. It was more parry, thrust and slash. Historical sword play for the katana was based on foot work and quick, unorthodox strikes. Scratch (no matter how good with a knife she was) Should not have even been able to get close. We all know Scratch, shes a balls out charge in head first type of fighter. If she did that against a person who is highly skilled with a sword she would die before she even was able to get in close enough to attack. It doesn't matter how good you are with a knife, if you can't get in close enough to use it then your skills mean diddly dick.

3.) Blade strength- Ok so anyone who knows anything about katana's (Well....well traditionally made katanas) they are created by folding the steel over and over and over and over (you get the picture) again. Katana's (and CJ did say her's was a heirloom katana or something along those lines) which tells me that it was the real deal and the real deal katana can cut through a bullet as in a bullet shot out of a gun. Scratches knife on the other hand is made from much weaker steel. Probably 440, which would be cut in half if hit by CJ's blade, or High Carbon steel which is much stronger but if not taken care of can rust quickly and weaken. Even if it's high carbon steel it still is no match for the folded steel of a katana.


We can hear the blades clash several times. CJ's skills with a sword, strength of the blade and length of the blade should have easily handled Scratch regardless of how good with a knife she is. Of course Kc, this is no slight on you! I don't expect someone who may or may not be familiar with blades to really get that in depth but just pointing it out!

-Smokey

A few things I'm wondering:

A - Do we know that CJ has any formal combat training/experience with the Kat or has she only just been using it to slice up some biters.

B - Was there ever a real description of the blade? I don't ever thing I've seen a real forged Katana, but maybe a couple of the cheaper ones you'd see at a knife shop. Although, maybe it's ability to slice off zombie legs is a testament to its quality.

Also, if the corridor was littered with stuff, CJ may not have been able to use the katana to it's full effect. Also, Scratch has probably had more experience with her knife than CJ has had with her sword, so it's not impossible. A more skilled fighter can defeat a better equipped one.

Scratch's knife wasn't like a kitchen knife either. It's more of a combat blade. But you bring up good discussion points. I won't try to suede the conversation. The big question is how skilled CJ was or was not at using it against a person.

Also CJ was distracted. A lot. Between Saul being shot and hearing about the armoury she got overly aggressive and confident.
no matter what your skill is if your head gets too big its going to come off.

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Originally Posted by Kc

Scratch's knife wasn't like a kitchen knife either. It's more of a combat blade. But you bring up good discussion points. I won't try to suede the conversation. The big question is how skilled CJ was or was not at using it against a person.

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Originally Posted by Solanine

Also CJ was distracted. A lot. Between Saul being shot and hearing about the armoury she got overly aggressive and confident.
no matter what your skill is if your head gets too big its going to come off.

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These posts carry my thoughts on the battle pretty well. Unless we're talking about obviously mismatched equipment (think kitchen knife against pistol), the main decisive points in a fight like this will be the level of skill of the fighter and the ability to stay focused.

Coming from a martial arts background, I've seen inexperienced people with a weapon get taken down by a very experienced fighter without a weapon.

About the inconsistencies: Scratch was just damn lucky, just as Saul was for not being shot in the head, arms, abdomen or legs.

In order to avoid such inconsistencies next time, what about ... female mud wrestling? t appeals to our most primitive male instincts.

SPOILER 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy602...eature=related

I was surprised Scratch won against the katana too, but I figured Scratch was a better fighter (or maybe took a cheap shot with CJ being distracted by Saul).

I see Scratch as someone used to fighting a lot of people in hand-to-hand combat. I just see CJ as getting most of her skills killing zombies.

CJ's skill at fighting zombies may even be a disadvantage, since one can get too used to a fighting style that leaves openings which a thinking opponent could take advantage of.

I can attest to the fact that something as subtle as an inch or two of arm length can make a difference in the Shinai, but when we do some fighting for fun I use a set of short swords and can make fairly quick work of others that are using long, or broad swords as well as pole arms. So blade length isn't everything. And no I don’t make a habit of attacking people with weapons but I am a member of a group that does historical combat.

I have also seen people, that have been trained in knife combat, who are able to close the gap on attackers with longer weapons and get inside. In the end however I think that this was designed to build in some suspense to the scene and drive the plot. Is this type of fight impossible to win for Scratch? I say No. Should CJ have the huge advantage described by SmokeyZombified? I would say yes.

I would like to add one aspect: Killing zombies and killing humans are two very different things from an psychological point of view. Ok, it is kitchen psychology - but regarding Scratch and CJ's death toll CV - Scratch has much fewer issues with killing humans.

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Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek

I would like to add one aspect: Killing zombies and killing humans are two very different things from an psychological point of view. Ok, it is kitchen psychology - but regarding Scratch and CJ's death toll CV - Scratch has much fewer issues with killing humans.

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Issues? I think Scratch enjoys killing humans over Zeds... Deacon's favorite girl is probably certifiably psychopathic....

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Originally Posted by scbubba

Issues? I think Scratch enjoys killing humans over Zeds... Deacon's favorite girl is probably certifiably psychopathic....

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Naah, that is just a preemptive measure because dead humans cannot turn. :squint:

All things being equal, swords are always better than knives. Reach: A modern combat knife generally has a blade of 1 foot or less. Swords ranged between having 2 foot blades up to 4 foot blades. So the sword has a definite reach advantage over the knife.

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Originally Posted by eoin53368

All things being equal, swords are always better than knives. Reach: A modern combat knife generally has a blade of 1 foot or less. Swords (katana swords of sale) ranged between having 2 foot blades up to 4 foot blades. So the sword has a definite reach advantage over the knife.

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Also, My favourite sword is the katana and my favourite knife is the boning knife.