The Haze

I thought we might need a thread on The Haze what it is.

Here is what I think might be related
- Makes it hard to breath and causes nausea
- Doesn't seem to affect Saul
- Zombies are not in the area
- Also seems to affect other living animals including plants. Has it affected bacteria as well?
- Has an affect on vision and colour perception.
- Reflects camera flash like smoke or fog (particles in the air)
- Seems to get stronger the further in you go, or is this just that it has had longer to cause a reaction
- May come from cracks in the ground

We don't know the limits of the Haze. As well as wondering how much of an area it covers, how far vertically in the air and underground does it extend?
Does wind or rain have any affect on it or the area it covers?

What else have I forgotton?

This could possibly mean something bigger.. Saul may be immune. Seriousy think back to Tommy's last moments. He was covered in blood with no open wounds. Saul on the other hand was shot and at a very high chance had Tommy's blood on him, he showed no signs of infection with this unknown zombie "virus". The only infection to follow was from "normal" infections so to speak. Therefore the insulin Saul uses now can / may be ruled out as to the possible cure. If Saul gets to any doctor if any, a cure can / may be made from his antibodies. However a cure form the "already infected" could be too late. Think about it...

As to the haze the only explanation I can think of is an underground facility, and a man made / engineered virus. Most likely for chemical weapons as a infection this bad can become a great weapon once turned into a gas form as airborne as many today are extremely dangerous.

As for the weather effects we would need more information to confirm its effects, for now assuming that it remains isolated I think its safe to say that weather has no effect,

How about some things it doesn't seem to do.
- Neither Saul nor Victor mentions any sort of irritation to their eyes or sinuses. These are usually the first place you feel the effects of airborne chemical agents or particulates.
- Both Saul and Victor spend a lot of time describing what they see on the ground, but neither one mentions any unusal amounts of dust or ash on the ground, vehicles, etc. This could imply that the haze is a form of vapor (suspended liquid) rather than a result of combustion (suspended particulates), since the later should have left a blanket of dust or ash over the Ground Zero area.
- Most forms of haze are going to be distinctly warmer, or distinctly cooler than the surrounding air. Neither Saul nor Victor mentions any sort of temperature change when they're near the haze.

And some observations:
- If the haze causes people to transform into zombies the effect isn't immediate, which implies that it requires some critical period of exposure.
- Are the effects of exposure cumulative, or does it require continuous exposure to work? This could be critical for two reasons. First, if exposure isn't cumulative it would imply that the body has a mechanism for neutralizing or expelling the haze. Second, if it is cumulative then Victor is in particular jeopardy, since he has now been exposed twice (the first time driving to LAX with Pegs).

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

How about some things it doesn't seem to do.
- Neither Saul nor Victor mentions any sort of irritation to their eyes or sinuses. These are usually the first place you feel the effects of airborne chemical agents or particulates.
- Both Saul and Victor spend a lot of time describing what they see on the ground, but neither one mentions any unusal amounts of dust or ash on the ground, vehicles, etc. This could imply that the haze is a form of vapor (suspended liquid) rather than a result of combustion (suspended particulates), since the later should have left a blanket of dust or ash over the Ground Zero area.
- Most forms of haze are going to be distinctly warmer, or distinctly cooler than the surrounding air. Neither Saul nor Victor mentions any sort of temperature change when they're near the haze.

And some observations:
- If the haze causes people to transform into zombies the effect isn't immediate, which implies that it requires some critical period of exposure.
- Are the effects of exposure cumulative, or does it require continuous exposure to work? This could be critical for two reasons. First, if exposure isn't cumulative it would imply that the body has a mechanism for neutralizing or expelling the haze. Second, if it is cumulative then Victor is in particular jeopardy, since he has now been exposed twice (the first time driving to LAX with Pegs).

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Excellent points :)
I was wondering about the cumulative effect, if it gets worse the longer you spend in it rather then the closer you get to the centre.

Speaking of culmulative effects....

1. I mentioned in the Ch. 28 thread that a pandemic outbreak with multiple epicenters (LA, Houston, Chicago, etc.) would most likely mean a bio-terrorist attack set off, simultaneously, by multiple operatives in multiple cities...

2. Though can I can't figure out why the need for underground explosions when a terrorist would much more easily just crack a vial in a trash can and no one would be the wiser where it came from.

3. And finally, what if there are 'cracks' and 'haze' in every city around the world, and this zombie-gas is continually leaking into the atmosphere, slowly turning the entire Earth's atmosphere toxic? Then a grim (and short) future awaits our heroes, indeed... (dun-dun-DUUUUUUN!)

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Originally Posted by Litmaster

Speaking of culmulative effects....

1. I mentioned in the Ch. 28 thread that a pandemic outbreak with multiple epicenters (LA, Houston, Chicago, etc.) would most likely mean a bio-terrorist attack set off, simultaneously, by multiple operatives in multiple cities...

2. Though can I can't figure out why the need for underground explosions when a terrorist would much more easily just crack a vial in a trash can and no one would be the wiser where it came from.

3. And finally, what if there are 'cracks' and 'haze' in every city around the world, and this zombie-gas is continually leaking into the atmosphere, slowly turning the entire Earth's atmosphere toxic? Then a grim (and short) future awaits our heroes, indeed... (dun-dun-DUUUUUUN!)

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But what would they gain from turning all the world toxic?

You forgot the are with the Haze kills Zombies and humans. Maybe there are layered effects to the Haze. The core is unknown. The next layer kills anything. The outer layer of the Haze turns humans into Zombies.

But do we actually know that the haze kills zombies?..all we know is none are present..killing is an overstatement

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Originally Posted by 7oddisdead

But do we actually know that the haze kills zombies?..all we know is none are present..killing is an overstatement

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There was an interesting comment in one of the other threads (sorry, couldn't find it to give proper credit) that the zombies might be compelled to flee from haze, or things that look like haze. For evidence he cited the fact that the zombies left the area of the Tower when it collapsed in a cloud of dust, leaving the dead bodies behind. I wonder if the smoke from the fire during The War might have contributed to the zombies departure at that time.

If the haze turns people into zombies it would make sense to imbed a command to make them move out of the area once they've turned. I'd love to see this theory tested. I wonder if Burt had any smoke grenades in his hidden store room?

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Originally Posted by 7oddisdead

But do we actually know that the haze kills zombies?..all we know is none are present..killing is an overstatement

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You're an overstatement!

It would be interesting to see what would happen if Victor (not Saul because he sucks) was able to capture a zombie and take it to G.Z. to make a determination as to whether or not it would affect it the same way it does normal humans.

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

There was an interesting comment in one of the other threads (sorry, couldn't find it to give proper credit) that the zombies might be compelled to flee from haze, or things that look like haze. For evidence he cited the fact that the zombies left the area of the Tower when it collapsed in a cloud of dust, leaving the dead bodies behind. I wonder if the smoke from the fire during The War might have contributed to the zombies departure at that time.

If the haze turns people into zombies it would make sense to imbed a command to make them move out of the area once they've turned. I'd love to see this theory tested. I wonder if Burt had any smoke grenades in his hidden store room?

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Zombie collectors would have taken the dead at ground zero like everywhere else but they were left behind. If they were all turned to zombies then the area would have no bodies. Also for zombies as a whole to fear the haze they might have all tried to go in to ground zero.

Just a theory, but everyone wants to know what is at ground zero, even Pinstripe. Maybe Pinstripe ordered zombies to go into ground zero but they died. Skittles mentioned to Angel and Kalani that he didn't think there were any more Jumper zombies around. Maybe Skittles saw the dead Jumpers around ground zero or saw Pinstripe ordering them leaping into ground zero and dieing.

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Originally Posted by Osiris

You're an overstatement!

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my dick is an overstatment!!!! wait... what? proly nsfw

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Originally Posted by reaper239

my dick is an overstatment!!!! wait... what?

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O RLY *Le NSFW*

I agree with Todd that we don't know if the Haze will kill zombies. Also, I am wondering if the bodies lying around are from people that died without actually being infected and then with the Haze covering them the zombies couldn't get them to carry away.

One other note, how close to the Haze were the closest reports the Tower gained from survivors? None of them seemed to mention the Haze that we know of. That may be because the Haze did affect everyone that it came in contact with it or maybe the Haze came later. It might have had a very contained area that infected the first few (if the Haze is part of the cause) and then slowly spread further. I can't remember, did Victor and Pegs remember seeing a Haze, or did any of the reports we heard from the other Tower mention it. Maybe the Haze is a 'new' thing.

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

I agree with Todd that we don't know if the Haze will kill zombies. Also, I am wondering if the bodies lying around are from people that died without actually being infected and then with the Haze covering them the zombies couldn't get them to carry away.

One other note, how close to the Haze were the closest reports the Tower gained from survivors? None of them seemed to mention the Haze that we know of. That may be because the Haze did affect everyone that it came in contact with it or maybe the Haze came later. It might have had a very contained area that infected the first few (if the Haze is part of the cause) and then slowley spread further. I can't remember, did Victor and Saul remember seeing a Haze, or did any of the reports we heard from the other Tower mention it. Maybe the Haze is a 'new' thing.

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It's funny, but as I was reading this I started to ask myself the same question you finished with. Is this a new thing? Perhaps, there were zombies in and around Ground Zero for a time, but moved out when 'The Haze' began to take over the area.

The other questions I would have are:

• Is The Haze spreading beyond its current borders--as determined by Victor--or is it remaining localized?
  
• If The Haze is relatively static, is it comprised of a living 'thinking' spore or other organism, rather than gas particles?
• If The Haze is sentient (a 'thinking' organism) that would account for the hive mind behaviour displayed by the zombies.

I had a thought the other day. What if the haze, the cracks, and the zombies are separate events. That is, one kills the zombies (and everything else, people and plants), the other event makes zombies.

Something or someone causes the zombie outbreak to happen in Inglewood. Then another organization, CIA, FBI, or what ever, tries to stop it by creating the haze that kills everything. The only problem is the haze kill zone is not as wide as the zombie creation zone. This explains why bodies were left behind at ground zero and why zombies clear out when there is haze around. This also explains why CJ's scout changed into a zombie before going to far into the haze.

For sure, I believe the haze kills, or is a way to stop the zombies. Although I'm still not sure if the cracks are part of the haze or part of zombie creation.

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Originally Posted by Osiris

O RLY *Le NSFW*

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you know, come to think of it i prolly should put that in my post.

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Originally Posted by GeneTwo

I had a thought the other day. What if the haze, the cracks, and the zombies are separate events. That is, one kills the zombies (and everything else, people and plants), the other event makes zombies.

Something or someone causes the zombie outbreak to happen in Inglewood. Then another organization, CIA, FBI, or what ever, tries to stop it by creating the haze that kills everything. The only problem is the haze kill zone is not as wide as the zombie creation zone. This explains why bodies were left behind at ground zero and why zombies clear out when there is haze around. This also explains why CJ's scout changed into a zombie before going to far into the haze.

For sure, I believe the haze kills, or is a way to stop the zombies. Although I'm still not sure if the cracks are part of the haze or part of zombie creation.

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Perhaps the haze is simply nature's way of bringing back balance to the world.

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Originally Posted by GeneTwo

What if the haze, the cracks, and the zombies are separate events ... Something or someone causes the zombie outbreak to happen in Inglewood. Then another organization, CIA, FBI, or what ever, tries to stop it by creating the haze that kills everything.

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I was thinking along these lines as well. Back when Michael heard the explosions during class, my first thought was that some organization was trying to contain the event, although it proved to be ineffective. Since both the zombie outbreak and the containment effort would be centered around Ground Zero, it would be hard to tease apart the aftermath of the two.

what is everyone going on about? they found crack in inglewood... not news.
(ducks tomatos) i shall now take my leave (bows under tomatos)

Wow... and I thought my jokes were in poor taste!

thank you, thank you

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Originally Posted by reaper239

what is everyone going on about? They found crack in inglewood... Not news.
(ducks tomatos) i shall now take my leave (bows under tomatos)

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Someone get this man another episode of We're Alive. STAT!!!

When Victor and Pegs went into the Haze Victor didn't start feeling sick until a few minutes later yet they didn't move any farther in. So surely this means that it is not about how far you get into the Haze but rather how long you are surrounded by it.

I would think that it's a cumulative effect. You can stand on the relative edge of the Haze and, over time, the exposure to fewer particulates would eventually have an effect, whereas being deeper in Ground Zero--where you are exposed to a greater concentration of the particulates would have affect you in a much shorter time.

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Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn

When Victor and Pegs went into the Haze Victor didn't start feeling sick until a few minutes later yet they didn't move any farther in. So surely this means that it is not about how far you get into the Haze but rather how long you are surrounded by it.

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Also, Victor didn't experience any breathing trouble until sometime after Pegs felt sick. Pegs mentions a headache first, then feels nauseous, then later, when Victor got sick, both had breathing problems. Also, probably nothing, Saul mentions a headache when Victor asks if he's alright during their venture into GZ.

Seems the effects of GZ may also be dependent on the individual. Burt's summary of GZ Syndrome , according to Victor and Pegs, starts with Nausea, progressing into something 'welling up' in the throat making it hard to breath. The asphyxia doesn't feel to be due to the air.

It appears that "super" Saul wasn't affected as much by the ground zero haze because of his meds, unilke poor Victor. That's interesting. So strong antibiotics stop the zombie turn over rate in the haze? Will it help them if they are bit or scratched? I guess we wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Sorshanik

It appears that "super" Saul wasn't affected as much by the ground zero haze because of his meds, unilke poor Victor. That's interesting. So strong antibiotics stop the zombie turn over rate in the haze? Will it help them if they are bit or scratched? I guess we wait and see.

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we don't know what made saul immune to the haze, or even if the haze causes the zombie infection. yet. if it does, the tinks may have a natural immunity to it, or there may be some other soloution, but tanya said that they tried the strong antibiotics on a turner and it slowed the process, but didn't stop it.

Strange thought. What if the haze was actually the cure--or at the very least, a vaccination of sorts. May explain the absence of the zeds.

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Originally Posted by Osiris

Strange thought. What if the haze was actually the cure--or at the very least, a vaccination of sorts. May explain the absence of the zeds.

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I believe what you just said. That the "Haze" hurts the zombies as well so if it could be found out to what it is then it could be utilized by the group to destroy the infestation. But this would seem to take awhile to acomplish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bswdOPVGAGU