Fort Irwin will it last?

Just recently The Tower survivors made it to Fort Irwin their promised land.
I's taken almost a season to get here but they finally made it
But considering that the Survivors haven't really got a good track record for staying in one place
The Colony wants them dead
The Tower is gone
Will the stay at Fort Irwin last?

My opinion is that yes they will stay there for a while at least. The area seems to be pretty secure and safe although their was mention of the large group of zombies several miles away but perhaps that will be a moment where the Tower folk can prove their worth.

Please post your opinions

There should be no way for the normal zombies and I have not seen enough out of Ink and other smart ones to think it is possible.

When one breaks it down, it is a basic seige conducted by infantry in a resource-poor environment. Without seige equipment the zombies are stuck unless they can break with two dimensional thinking and go with the third. I do not see wings anytime soon, but sapping has a chance. There is more to it than just turtling behind a wall. But, it gets the basic down.

So, my guess is that Ft Irwin was instructed to Turtle or if they do collect recon intel, they do not care for the plight of what remains of humanity.

BUT, I hope the base did not turlte. It is a bad stratagem. One must have expanding zones of control. The further one goes from the base, the less control and retime time intel is required. At the base, we have the opposite where we have ever-increasing security and real time intel. Too many times this gets boiled down to "In Here" and "Out There". Afew undead run unti the wall and are ignored, The undead continue to attack the barrier and call for reinforcements. If one dams the trickling stream, a lake can form. The story-book version the dead are ignored until the wall is breached by a catastrophic failure.

The better policy is to setup zones of control and patrol them. At the redline were there is a transition from "in here and out there" must be cleared daily if necesary. It is critical to eliminate the randoms that arrive before the call for reinforcements. because the zombies also work based on zones of control. Although one may have a very small zone of control; arms length. With intel is limited to eye / smell, but the communication system is very advanced in its simplicity. Call for reinforcements and everything in 360degrees within in earshot is most likely on the move. In the their excitement, the ones within earshot can echo the call and extend the range frrom which reinforcements can be pulled.

Like Zapp says. The Army is always evil in the zombie apocolypse and I guess the commander will play the role of Burke in aliens. Smile and glad-hand while stabbing in the back.

I think the idea of a siege is a good one. Remember that when the helicopter flew over Barstow they saw that it was over run and that there were crowds of zombies in the streets, months after the outbreak. Barstow's not that big a place. It wouldn't have taken long for it to be over run and there isn't much for the zombies to eat. There's no good reason for the zombies to stick around.

Compare that with the other places we've seen. LA was largely clear of large groups of zombies within hours of the outbreak. In contrast, the area around the Colony was plagued by roaming hoardes that seemed to be organized and were probing for weak points to attack.

To me this suggests that the zombies in Barstow know there is a large group of humans nearby. Maybe they're throwing themselves against Army defenses along the main road, maybe they're probing out into the desert. Either way, there's probably a "Smart One" in Barstow holding the group together and preparing them to attack once the opportunity presents itself.

In the Air Base Ground Defense (ABGD) world, we call that "Defense in Depth" aka layerd security. Physical, electronic, patrols, etc..etc..

In Crowbar's world, and given the equipment types at the post, I'd have guys in LP/OP's in the hills with snipers. Artillary higher up to bombard the choke points. I use the dump trucks to make rings of elevated fighting positions around the base with more choke points set up to channel the infected in and just light them up from the top. It'd be like the sand dune version of the perimeter fences at a prison. You have that gap between the outer and inner fences that you'd use as a killzone.

The army can't just be a bunch of good guys. Just look at 23 days later.

if the occupants from Barstow follow the direction of the helicopter they may be in trouble (only 20 hours zombie march to Fort Irwin)

That it is, but KC's zombies are more alive than the Romero Shamblers. It is a days travel over nasty terrain. Is it Death Valley or is that more north?

Zombies are not know for their expertise in logistics, so excuse the pun, but they are dead meat.

If the writer wants them on the base, they get on the base. But, in real life the military can do a good job locking things down with SOPs and redundant defenses to ensure that it does not occur.

Arthur,

I agree with you one hundred percent. We know they're already hip to the threat, so it makes sense to be ready for it when it reaches. Sun Tzu says "Know, prepare and control" the terrain. In short, they have the home field advantage. They'd be incredibly stoooooopid if they didn't have the perimeter prepared. I'm also going to assume that KC isn't going to give his brother soldiers the middle finger and play them stupid tactics wise. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche

Is it Death Valley or is that more north?

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Death Valley is further north.

Does the survival of the fort and the fact that the army is still acting like the army hint at a greater infrastructure in place? The satellites would still be up there to use for long distance communication. How easy would it have been to pick up communications between troops?

It would make sense that more of the military would survive somewhere. Nuclear missile silos, ships and subs at sea, bases in the Arctic and on remote islands should have been untouched by the initial outbreak. I imagine that if any of them are out there then Fort Irwin should know about them.

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Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche

There should be no way for the normal zombies and I have not seen enough out of Ink and other smart ones to think it is possible.

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Disclaimer: I know nothing about how military bases are actually set up

I presume there is a fence or some sort of physical barrier around the base, if it was just the normal zombies then these might be strong enough to hold them back (although I imagine if there is a huge number of them then they may buckle under the sheer weight and force?) but what about the big ones? and the jumpers? Perhaps these ones could be the eventual downfall of the base.

An epic siege over several episodes or parts, the humans seem to have it under control, then a bad ass marked up suit wearing beast turns up, organises the remaining zombies who distract the humans while their trump card of big and jumpy ones break in and cause havoc and then allow the rest in?

Under normal circumstances military bases aren't that well fortified. Here in the US the bases I've been on had fairly strong fences around their perimeters when there was a town nearby. These tended to be 10 feet chain link fences, with concrete posts and topped with concertina wire. But along the sides of the bases where there weren't towns there were no fences or barriers. After 9/11 the public gates were fortified with concrete walls, pop up barriers in the roads, etc.

Bottom line, I don't think that bases with large towns/cities adjacent would stand much of a chance unless they got advanced warning.

The thing about Fort Irwin is that they could have gotten that advanced warning, and they have a lot of distance from the local towns. With a few hours warning they could have erected barriers, built walls, laid out minefields and set out armed outposts that should have provided effective defenses.

There are some "Open" posts. That means that only the priority areas will be fenced in. Ft Lewis is a post that doesn't have a perimeter fence (or it didn't the last time I was there). So anyone could walk in. Since Ft. Irwin has already secured the dorms..er, barracks, you can assume that the perimeter has been secured.

The avenue of approach (why am I having a feeling of Deja Vu?) for the infected is up the highway. It's a choke point and if anyone knows about Killzones, Key Terrain and such stuff, it's gonna be a training base for infantry and light mechs.
These aren't WWZ type super Z's who can survive sustained rates fire from tanks, small arms fire and f'n Apache copters. These go down from massive trauma.
I Behemoth will go down from concentrated and coordinated fire

"Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets!" —Brigadier Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart, Doctor Who

Thanks KC, for giving the guys with guns a fighting chance, for once! If an M-16 or 9mm can take down a zombie then imagine what you can do when you move out of the realm of "small arms".

I want to see how well a Behemoth does against a depleted uranium armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot round fired by an M-1 tank. Imagine the energy generated by a semi, travelling at 60 MPH, transfered over an area the size of a dime. Armor is transformed into a gaseous plasma at the point of impact. My guess is that the Behemoth becomes a chunky pink mist.

Toot Toot! CP. That is what I like to hear!

The one part you left out was "... from more than a mile away!" These bastards will blow through a foot of rolled steel at 1,000 yards.

Do they still run HEAT rounds these days?

When the mass infantry I mean zombies banzai charges, The tanks can fire Cannister Rounds. Similar to Burt's Claymore in season one. But instead of the enemy coming to the mine, the tanks can move, aim and detonate it where and when they choose.

The tanks and the bradleys have .50cals, One of these knocked a beheomoth on its ass. As saul says, I do nto know if I killed it, but I sure as hell broke something, or soemthig like that.
An awesome attack mode on zombies would be:

Tank commander pops the top and yells "Nanana booboo" at the zombies. When the zombies get the hint and assault the tank, the commander goes back to button up and then another tank hoses the first tank down.

the great thing is that the abrams are damn near impervious to damage. at the battle of medina ridge (gulf war 1, the first large scale engagement between the abrams and the t-72) the only abrams lost was due to friendly fire as a result of damaged optics. the tank was disabled and the crew had their bells rung, but there were no casualties.

Ah, yes, the battle of 73 Easting. Tanks Forward to smash the heavy stuff and Bradleys trail to obliterate any infantry trying to rally and reoccupy anything that is left. I was going to mention it, because it was one of the few examples where command unmuzzled the dog. People have no clue how much damage these things can do in such a very short time.

I am pretty sure the people at Ft Irwin are the mallers. The guy they meet when first landing is named Puck. Scratch says, "Puck is expendable" when they were attacking the tower the second time.

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Originally Posted by Plurabelle

I am pretty sure the people at Ft Irwin are the mallers. The guy they meet when first landing is named Puck. Scratch says, "Puck is expendable" when they were attacking the tower the second time.

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Kc has said that one is a nickname (Maller) and Puck at the Fort is a last name so they are two different people.
Welcome to the forums though! It is nice to have ou here

That sounds really, really familiar...

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Originally Posted by Plurabelle

I am pretty sure the people at Ft Irwin are the mallers. The guy they meet when first landing is named Puck. Scratch says, "Puck is expendable" when they were attacking the tower the second time.

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Cupcake is right. But, good catch!

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Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche

Ah, yes, the battle of 73 Easting. Tanks Forward to smash the heavy stuff and Bradleys trail to obliterate any infantry trying to rally and reoccupy anything that is left. I was going to mention it, because it was one of the few examples where command unmuzzled the dog. People have no clue how much damage these things can do in such a very short time.

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One reason why I didn't care for "World War Z"
They had guys in tanks dying..really? Like once they run out of ammo/shells the thing turns into paper. pfft!

exactly, i was never able to figure that out like in the walking dead: what happened to the tank crew at the begining? why didn't they button up and chill? there were some brits who sat in a damaged paladin for like a whole day waiting to be rescued. a paladin. and that's no where near as tankaliscious as an abrams.

Plenty of examples of tanks fighting swarms of infantry and winning. During the Korean War the Chinese lacked antitank weapons, so they tried using swarm attacks against the allied tanks. Large groups of infantry would attack a single tank, with dozens climbing onto the turrets where they would try to pry open hatches to drop in grenades or shoot the crews. It rarely worked. The tanker code "scratch my back" comes from that time. It's a request for another tank to sweep enemy infantry off using machinegun fire. Very few Chinese soldiers survived these attacks and they quickly abandoned the tactic.

Max Brooks had a serious anti-military bias. I know he is the son of Mel, but other than that, I do not know much. I think he may have been ROTC and flunked out. He has some really nice slang - Fulda Fucktards - and then proceeds as if Gomer Pile was in charge of the division.

I like what reaper and cabbage point out. It is a lot of rock paper scissors. Tanks crushes light infantry. Light infantry can bring down choppers and choppers wreck tanks. Since I think TOWTM will have very little air support, I want armor and mounted infantry.

I have mentioned this on another thread; one thing I find odd about Fort Irwin right now is that it cannot get in touch with the Colonel. It seems like Kc is possibly hinting at a plot here,a plot that could possibly impair their safety. Something does not seem right about it, surely they would always be able to keep in touch with someone that is quite a high ranked officer (if not highest in terms of who is left)?

Hell no, For Irwin is gonna burn like everything and everywhere else in the post-apocalyptic world.

The latest developments at Ground Zero from "Last Dying Breath" Part 3 really cry out for Army hardware that can be found at Fort Irwin. In particular, Saul and Victor really could have used an M93 Fox NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) Recon Vehicle. This is a German made armored vehicle that the US military uses to investigate contaminated areas. The vehicle uses a sophisticated air filtration system and over-pressurization to protect the crew from anything in the outside air. The crew can work from inside the vehicle to collect air samples, run chemical agent tests and otherwise monitor the environment.

Maybe Micheal and crew can bring a Fox back with them when they return to LA!

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