In defense of Steven. (Spoilers)

There is a lot of Steven hate going on on the board and so I thought I would go back and revisit Steven's episodes.

Here's the thing: Steven didn't kick out Lizzy. She left voluntarily as she SHOULD HAVE because she broke the rules, because she wanted Burt to maintain leadership while Michael was gone, because she knew that it was the right thing to do (since Burt wasn't going to enforce the rules himself). Burt didn't kick her out because she was in the "inner circle" of Tower residents, but if it were any other character... If it was a character who we didn't know, a character we didn't like? Would we have reacted differently? I think we would have.

Remember when we didn't like Kelly and we cheered when Michael nearly kicked her out? And we were disappointed when she got to stay?

Here's the thing, I don't really like Steven much but we don't have to like all of the characters. Lizzy really did put the inhabitants of the Tower at risk. She fell asleep during guard duty and failed to stop an attack of the garage by six zombies. Burt said pretty clearly that it was lucky that he was going on rounds and was there to take care of it.

Everything that's happened to her since: Horrible. But Steven isn't the blame. He wasn't trying to be a dick. He was trying to make sure that everyone was safe. So with this in mind let's talk about Steven and Pippin.

Steven said, clearly "I don't feel comfortable doing my job with him in there." He was creeped out and suspicious of Pippin... He sounded pretty sure that Pippin couldn't be trusted and was happy to get away from him. Now there are no few forum goers who are saying that this is proof that Steven was the rat and killed Pippin to make sure that Pippin couldn't sell him out. But I don't think that was the case.

If Steven was the rat then why did he make such a big deal about Lizzy falling asleep at guard duty? Wouldn't someone who took an active roll in nearly destroying the building want some one there who couldn't be trusted to keep an eye out on the monitors? I mean that sounds like an amazingly ideal situation to me if I were invested in any way shape or form in taking down the Tower. It wouldn't be difficult to tip off the others when Lizzy would be on duty again, probably asleep again...

So either Steven is concerned about the safety of the tower or he isn't. And it seems to me that he is. I don't think that Steven is the rat, I don't think that Steven is the shooter either. I think that Steven is a red herring as he is entirely too easy to blame for everything.

Wow, nice write up.

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Originally Posted by mascaria

Steven said, clearly "I don't feel comfortable doing my job with him in there." He was creeped out and suspicious of Pippin... He sounded pretty sure that Pippin couldn't be trusted and was happy to get away from him.

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I agree!
Michael didn't want Pegs in the room with Pippin and got her out of guard duty, we are not down on him for that. I think a lot of people would have the same uneasy feeling about guarding him, I know that I wouldn't feel great about it. Is his reactions to things really different to how a lot of us would feel (especially those without training for this type of work).

I also think that his pushing for Lizzy to be kicked out was not to get her kicked out but to sow doubt in Burt's leadership. The emphasis seemed to be more on pushing Burt to make the call rather then actually getting Lizzy kicked out.

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

I also think that his pushing for Lizzy to be kicked out was not to get her kicked out but to sow doubt in Burt's leadership. The emphasis seemed to be more on pushing Burt to make the call rather then actually getting Lizzy kicked out.

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Yes, absolutely! Another thing that I just thought of (because I'm sure it'll be said) there are some people who are saying that the rat has since reformed and they're on the side of the Tower now... Wouldn't the person who was a reformed saboteur try to stay as inconspicuous as possible? Steven isn't terribly inconspicuous and he certainly doesn't seem very concerned about staying on Michael's good side, which a former rat may want to do. After all, they'd want to be very very sure that no one ever had any reason to question them or their loyalty.

Someone can go back and listen to ensure it is correct. I will eventually, but this thread may be dusty by then.

If you listen to Steven, he sounds more jealous of past action. "has long as we are on your special list..." BUt, most importantly, When Lizzy said she was leaving, all of Stevens rage and fire were gone. His voice really drops and I hear empathy when he says "that's not what he said." Before Steven can back down and plead bluster rather than intent, Burt goes all alpha male. I envision Burt grabbing Steven by the collar and going nose to nose and saying, "give the girl some dignity."

It seems to be nothing that anyone really wants. But, it is what happens because everyone feels trapped.
Riley goes off and pouts. If I had to guess she was at least heavily buzzed. Her spider sense was not tingling at all as we have seen it several times with Michael.
Once the Monkey poop fight had gone through the fan, Burt goes out to look for Lizzy.
I expressed my opinion of Steven above.
Datu wants to go along and not rock the boat so he never cowboys up.
Lizzy (in her audio log) says her intent was to go back in a few days.
Angel did do the wrong thing by going back to bed. But, in his defense, I am sure he never thought it would go that badly.

But, as one of the older readers I will say, the above happens a lot. Too much. Things escalate out of control and we go all lower primate. We say things that we may "want or need" in the moment, but when the blood pressure drops and we go back to being human we realize society is not about getting everything we want. It is being rational and that means keeping secret what we really want to say, because that adds friction to the function of the team. NOw, I do not want to leave the impression that I think we are Vulcan or Mimes. But, I am sure people recall things that are better left unsaid in day to day life. BUt, the same things occur when the stakes are much higher.

I don't know that I would say that he sounds jealous, but exasperated certainly.

I agree that Steven gets a bad rap. It bothered me that he wanted Lizzy out so bad but that's rooted in my like for Lizzy and my lack of knowledge about who Steven is. In real life, I would probably feel similar that he did, not so much that Lizzy should go but 'if it were me, you'd kick me out', the fear of the double standard for not being in the inner circle. And in this scenario it's not just the choice between acceptance in a popular clique vs. not, but being un-evictable vs. being tossed out to die to probably die. And in reality, that clique mentality could get everyone killed, it wouldn't have been the first time the tower was breached. I think Steven's argument was a lot more about the unfairness and not about a desire for anyone to have to leave.

And this week we see Steven is a much better light. We see the other side of him, the one that jumps to help, and pulls his weight for the entire Tower. :)

BUT cupcakes it does seem like he still does not care what leadership thinks of him IE his snarky comment to michael "im on guard duty... im guarding" (An allusion to the fight over Lizzy leaving? i think so! and also throwing in a nice little viper bite at michael) BUT i could just be reading into that... frankly i would be pissed if i knew that someone got better treatment because they are all nice to the leaders... I don't HATE steven... infact steven seems like he could be a likable character. Also it was never really said that he never pulled his weight in the tower (if anything he must do it usually because we havn't heard of him that much up until now which usually means its safe to say they pull their weight but they dont over/ under do it) but again im most likely just way over thinking your post. Overall i think if Kc wants to steven can be a really cool/ compelling character. Give the poor dude a chance.

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Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche

Someone can go back and listen to ensure it is correct. I will eventually, but this thread may be dusty by then.

If you listen to Steven, he sounds more jealous of past action. "has long as we are on your special list..." BUt, most importantly, When Lizzy said she was leaving, all of Stevens rage and fire were gone. His voice really drops and I hear empathy when he says "that's not what he said." Before Steven can back down and plead bluster rather than intent, Burt goes all alpha male. I envision Burt grabbing Steven by the collar and going nose to nose and saying, "give the girl some dignity."

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I didn't really hear empathy when Steven said "that's not what he said." I heard more exasperation and a little bit of anger. I think the whole Lizzie getting kicked out situation was more about Burt than Lizzie. Steven sounded like he was trying to call Burt out and was angry that Lizzie was leaving voluntarily and saving Burt face. Steven was trying to say "She's choosing to leave. Burt was going to let her off the hook because he's playing favorites and is a terrible leader." At least that's how I interpret it.

That being said, Steven had reason to want to question Burt's leadership, even if he was a dick about it. The Tower was still a mess after the War. People don't know if they're going to be staying or leaving or where they're going to go if they do leave. Saul may or may not have been infected and could possibly turn and start killing people (or at least thought so at that time) The Mallers are still out there and could come back. And Michael, Pegs, and Kelly are MIA and possibly dead. Add to that fears the the leadership is playing favorites could cause the numerous "voiceless" Tower residents to be on the verge of mutiny. In short, Steven's an ass but he has justifications for being one.

Exactly HardKor (but i do think steven can become a like-able character easily)

am i clear to think now that pippen was a traitor....i think i heard scratch talking to someone about if he radioed back or not

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

I agree!
Michael didn't want Pegs in the room with Pippin and got her out of guard duty

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In Michael's defense, Pegs has a special status in the relationship with the Mallers. Michael knows that Scratch wants to kill her because she killed Latch. If there was any chance that Pippin was still working for the Mallers it made sense to keep her out of his sight, both because he might have attacked her, and because he could have gathered intelligence about her to share with Scratch.

God- again forced to entirely disagree with everyone.

OK- 1- I In fact do think that Steven was avoiding watch over Pippin because Pippin indeed would have recognized him. Why? Simple. Steven is the rat.

You may ask why try to be such a dick and kick Lizzy out the tower. Let me break this down for you:

1- It was in the middle of the night. Steven was looking for an excuse to set her (or anyone perhaps) up (in my opinion, based on a plan coordinated with Scratch)
2- His probable MAIN goal in calling out Burt was to spread discontent and a feeling of segregation within the tower to make people take sides, breaking the unity that they had made- playing on the peoples emotions.
3- When Steven said "That's not what he said", he was trying to continue his route of trying to spread discontent- but failed- but at the same time, accomplished his secondary goal of getting one of the key Tower members kicked out of the tower to play a part in an even more insidious plan coordinated with Scratch: Leverage.
4- Micheal said something to the degree of "The rat has been here a while and is now loyal to us again." This leads me to think that the jack ass that is Steven suddenly turned tides (as seen in ch 24 for the most part) in order to play his role.
5- I assume Steven died? I am re-listening now- but he was going to get more people to the Motor Pool- which I assumed is buried in ruble. Perhaps HE is what Scratch found possibly (if he is dead)

Your point 5 is exactly the reason why Steven is not the rat. What do you gain as an audience from a rat that is dead? There's no repercussion, there's no confrontation, there's nothing but a let down. There's no way the Tower can react except to go "oh ho hum, woe is me" and kick some dirt around.

Steven was not the rat. He was a completely unlikeable character because he stood up for things we as an audience didn't believe in (like Burt's leniency for Lizzy, not wanting to watch Pippin etc), but he was not the rat. The Rat is still alive because the payoff will be stronger when they are revealed.

I disagree good sir.

Whats to gain is simple: closure.
It ensures that wherever the Tower people go- they are safe from subterfuge.
He was obvious in ways, but also covered his trail by throwing in a few positives- a good smokescreen for the audience.
I am going to edit this post once my brain choose to function again so I can further explain my thoughts.
Steven was more of spy to me than a mere informer- I do strongly believe that his goal was to sabotage the inner-workings of the Tower.
Time shall tell.
Who do you think it was if not Steven?

For the same reason you think he's the obvious choice, I see red herrings. Much like how I saw them with Kalani. They have always been the obvious choices because we as the audience don't like them. Which was one of the reasons I hung my hat on Datu very early on. He's a character you wouldn't expect it from, he had a reason to want the situation at the Tower to change at the point the Mallers came to attack (because of the events with Samantha) , and he's the only one not heard from at all in chapter 12, giving him the opportunity to fire the first shots of the War to incite the conflict.

Do I still believe that? Nope, not really but I'm riding that pony to glory on the really off chance I'm right.

But Steven being the rat makes less sense to me than Datu. All Steven was reacting against was the favoritism and cliquey nature in the Tower. He is the manifestation of all 25 some-odd nameless people in the Tower we never hear opinions from. If Steven was still the rat at the point that you think he was, and was still acting in tandem with the Mallers to gain leverage on the Tower why would he have not told Scratch that Pegs was on a mission down south with a busted up Michael and Kelly? Or have them come destroy the Tower when the only people to defend it were Burt and Angel?

The Rat just murdered a man in cold blood. That is not something that deserves closure at this moment. It still deserves conflict. And Steven is incapable of being a part of that conflict as he is either ripped to shreds or crushed. And I think having that little nugget of doubt among your fellow compatriots makes the story far more interesting than bringing this chapter of the story to a close right now.

We've always said the difference between We're Alive and other stories similar to it was it didn't focus on the zombies as the main antagonist. It's the other people. The Rat storyline, I feel, is the driving force behind We're Alive right now. It's the constant mystery. I do believe the Rat will be revealed by the end of the series (and probably the end of Season 3) to set up the ultimate conflict between the Mallers and the Tower with the zombies nipping at their heels the whole way.

I am forced to agree with you fully.

I always do like logic over assumption.

BUT- I will hold onto what has now been lowered to a 10-of-diamonds in my back pocket..just in case.

but I will always admit, sometimes those blind stabs in the dark are fun too ;)

I've got it!

Saul did it. He beat his sickness after a few hours, pretended to be sick the entire time, cut the wire, stole the silenced pistol, killed whats-his-face, and called the Mallers to the tower while he was drunk and partying it up. He then ran upstairs and shot at them. All while drunk. What a boss.

Makes logical sense.

/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by h3half

I've got it!

Saul did it. He beat his sickness after a few hours, pretended to be sick the entire time, cut the wire, stole the silenced pistol, killed whats-his-face, and called the Mallers to the tower while he was drunk and partying it up. He then ran upstairs and shot at them. All while drunk. What a boss.

Makes logical sense.

/sarcasm

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Idk man- I have been thinkin in my head how he was able to just jump up and go when he was bed ridden for so long.
I understand that the motivation of realizing Lizzy was gone may give some energy- but that boy went from down and out to up and at it.

I wouldn't put it past me yet.

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Originally Posted by usmcludwig

Idk man- I have been thinkin in my head how he was able to just jump up and go when he was bed ridden for so long.
I understand that the motivation of realizing Lizzy was gone may give some energy- but that boy went from down and out to up and at it.

I wouldn't put it past me yet.

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He's a boss.

I think Steven is the second tower spy basically because not everything has to have a twist ending. Although I do agree with Michael and Angel that he did defect to the WA tower and shot Pippen to protect himself and the tower.
If he were to confess and and say that Pippen is a spy too. They would both be out the door in no time, if they were lucky. The military doesn't look to kindly on traitors. I think it like a shooting offense.

So now that I got that out of the way, I don't think the inner circle (Michael, Angel, Saul, Burt) does not trust anyone in the tower other than Pegs, Riley, Datu, Lizzy, Kelly, and Kalani. Their whole world is the tower and the 30+ people in it, and sometimes it seems like they barely know anyone there. If anyone other than the trusted few got captured by the Mallers I don't think anyone would give it a second thought, especially Michael, and everyone in the tower knows it.