Marcus and his Colony

Lets have some fun and try to figure out what Marcus is like before we meet him.

Marcus is obviously an intelligent person to be the leader of such a well organized, and disciplined group of people. He has to be charismatic and draw people to him. His people follow the rules explicitly and seem to have bought into the greater good.

Though there are obviously some draw backs too. They have had people try to sneak in (as evident by Victor's comments) so we know he's made some security mistakes. He also has a Utopian ideal of how the Colony should be. Hope had to be sponsored (for lack of a better term) by Tanya because no one wanted her because of her disability.

So what do we think of Marcus, his leadership and his Colony?

its really too early to tell in my opinion, he's gotta be powerful, and quite a planner to organize an entire colony in the midst of an apocalypse scenario. i think theres a good chance he'll be an idealist, trying to create a utopian society, and history dictates that these are destined to fail due to corruption. but until we actually meet the guy who knows. i dont like his colony. even though its not the nightmare cannibal house of terror we thought it could've been, this feels even more dangerous, it seems like paradise, birds chirping, sun shining, but just small context clues like victor warning them to stay away, and hope almost being cast out because of her disability, the doctor said she wasnt doing her work by choice, there seems to be a dark undertone hidden underneath the perfection of it all. but once again not enough info to make an educated call

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Originally Posted by Ra1th

its really too early to tell in my opinion, ...but once again not enough info to make an educated call

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I know. Hence the fun! Then once we learn more, we can come back and backtrack on all our theories!

If I remember correctly, the doctor said that she was working under orders of Marcus. My guess is he did this for leverage purposes against Michael and crew. That or he's just a really nice guy.

Another Monday, another couple of tidbits about Marcus and the Colony. Here's the best I can figure right now (until the 21st when my theory will have to change all over again).

Marcus and the Colony seems to resemble the Mafia in a way. You don't necessarily have to join them, and you don't necessarily need to get their protection. But if you do happen to find yourself indebted to Don Marcus, he may call upon you some day to do a favor for him. And since we can't very well have people wandering around, Marcus keeps them close for the favors.

So aside from the Godfather references, this seems to be where this is leading. Tanya is working on Michael's arm, Hope says if that's the case then it is now too late for Michael, Pegs and Kelly to leave. Michael has found himself indebted to the Colony and now must pay the price.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Another Monday, another couple of tidbits about Marcus and the Colony. Here's the best I can figure right now (until the 21st when my theory will have to change all over again).

Marcus and the Colony seems to resemble the Mafia in a way. You don't necessarily have to join them, and you don't necessarily need to get their protection. But if you do happen to find yourself indebted to Don Marcus, he may call upon you some day to do a favor for him. And since we can't very well have people wandering around, Marcus keeps them close for the favors.

So aside from the Godfather references, this seems to be where this is leading. Tanya is working on Michael's arm, Hope says if that's the case then it is now too late for Michael, Pegs and Kelly to leave. Michael has found himself indebted to the Colony and now must pay the price.

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Wow, I never looked at it that way. I just thought he was a straight up evil asshole, but he's a little more than that apparently.

And so maller/tower tag team rescue op!

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Originally Posted by Ra1th

And so maller/tower tag team rescue op!

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Ra1th, you and I agree on just about everything so far, but I think you're jumping the gun on the Maller/Tower team up. Michael, Pegs and Kelly are well out of contact range with the Tower right now. If Burt suspects them to be dead, he's not going to send a scout party looking for them (I'm combining your thoughts from the 18-3 reaction thread as well), he's just going to let them go as a loss. It's more likely that the three of them (plus Hope and possibly Tanya) escape the Colony somehow and make it back to L.A.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that somewhere down the line a Tower/Maller alliance could happen. Angel returning Latch lays the ground work for it. But there's still Pegs/Scratch that has to be dealt with, as well as Who's the Rat before any alliance can be forged. Imagine the Tower going to the Mallers and saying "Hey we need to rescue our friends....one of which killed John" Scratch would probably go against the old adage and shoot the messenger.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Ra1th, you and I agree on just about everything so far, but I think you're jumping the gun on the Maller/Tower team up. Michael, Pegs and Kelly are well out of contact range with the Tower right now. If Burt suspects them to be dead, he's not going to send a scout party looking for them (I'm combining your thoughts from the 18-3 reaction thread as well), he's just going to let them go as a loss. It's more likely that the three of them (plus Hope and possibly Tanya) escape the Colony somehow and make it back to L.A.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that somewhere down the line a Tower/Maller alliance could happen. Angel returning Latch lays the ground work for it. But there's still Pegs/Scratch that has to be dealt with, as well as Who's the Rat before any alliance can be forged. Imagine the Tower going to the Mallers and saying "Hey we need to rescue our friends....one of which killed John" Scratch would probably go against the old adage and shoot the messenger.

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Well i am jumping the gun a little with the tower/maller team up, but i think its a strong possibility, (and one that i really really want!!!), and heres why, MPK (michael/peggs/kelly) might be out of range right now, but i think it's possible that as michael takes his time and heals his arm, over the next month, we'll see kelly and peggs become part of the colony work force, eventually i think they will also start going on recon missions, on one these missions i think they'll move out far enough that they can send an emergency transmission to the tower, ALSO they might be able to take the meds that saul needs with them on the recon mission and leave it in a marked and designated location for the tower to find (maybe the boat, because that might come into play in the future , no way would kc introduce somehting like that for no reason at all). the only reason im even mentioning this is so that saul will get his medication, and he'll have time to heal up for the next war.

as for the tower/maller alliance, im not saying these two just turn into best buds out of no where, i'm saying that they can have an uneasy alliance. like us and the USSR. during WWII against the nazis. So the groundwork has been laid for a truce or a cease fire between mallers and the tower, so say a rep for the mallers comes by, and burt casually drops a reference about teh colony, the mallers dont have to know their exact reasons for going into the colony (ie scratch doesnt have to know the tower's intent is to save pegs). and the mallers would be interested cause they are in the market for a new place to stay. and like u said, this would be a good time for the traitor to be hunted down.

so theres ur set up, over the next few chapters, these things happen, and then for our season finale, we have a war on the colony, AND the tower is back to its full fighting force. Michael will have had his arm healed, saul will be back on his feet, Angel is as beast as ever, Burt is gonna step into the field, Durai and his army will be in the fight, and we'll find out just how capable the colony is.

Here's something that should be noted about Marcus despite all we know about him now: He was actually a good leader. Yes, he was deceitful and harsh, but he was effective. He pulled the Colony up by the bootstraps and made it work. When Sean came along, he was smart enough to put him in as second in command. Now he was able to do what he thought needed to be done to lead his people, because he had an intermediary to act as the good cop to his bad cop.

What also makes him a good leader, in my opinion, was not wanting Gatekeeper to have the Second in Command position. He knew exactly what Gatekeeper was, and tried to protect the people from that. It's also just as possible that Marcus was protecting himself because I think he knew once Sean was gone, his claim to authority was about to be challenged. That's why he had his dogs with him at all times. I think ultimately what happened to Marcus is somewhat tragic. Did he have it coming? Probably. Would I have preferred to see Marcus go down by a populace uprising? Yes I would have. But I feel the real tragedy is, you get glimpses that he truly does care about his position, but when we meet him he knows something bad is about to happen to him. He's just a guy who got in way over his head and couldn't find a way to surface to get some air.

What do you think?

I think you're right. Marcus wasn't totally a bad guy, but he wasn't totally good either. I'm not sure that he would have taken leadership out of the kindness of his heart, he seemed pretty power hungry even at the end. I think he valued power above everything else. However, what he DID with that power wasn't all bad, like you said. I agree with you, he had the good sense to promote Sean, and keep the sadistic Gatekeeper at bay.

Everyone can make enemies, I'm sure he just made one too many..
I had a unique idea of who Marcus was at first, but the scariest thing about Marcus is that he never really did anything horrible to anyone that I could tell.

FACTS!
He let MPK in.
He healed MP.
He offered Mikey a job, I would say first day but he was passed out after day 1 til day like day 5.
So first chance, he gets a real soldier into line for 2nd in command over the sadistic mofo the gatekeeper. (Wither or not he knew Gatekeeper was after him is irrelevant at this point, Shawn was killed and Marcus immediately found someone better from the same area and also from the military to replace The Gatekeeper in line. This would be a good leadership sign right here.)
While whipping and hanging one of the hundreds that he may have lead would be horrid, during a time when I believe human life would be the most valuable resource around, yet it could be excused overlooked and forgotten given the crime.
He upon returning to his office/home he finds that his new recruit is KNOCKING OUT BIXBY, SLAMMING DRINKS, and MAKING CALLS YO!
He had concrete evidence of the call.
Gatekeeper wouldn't have let him sit down at the table before a shot would ring out.

He acted appropriately in my opinion, he allowed him to live and sit it out for the time being in the slammer, this would be basically my first choice of action if I had a cell available to house him in.
As for the murder of the family at the gatehouse, what is Marcus to do other than hang Bixby?
He could be excused for his actions to an extent, but when the whole recon team took a bullet that was a tad much.
Maybe the leader of the group, maybe the one who pushed them back to the colony.
But not every last man.

**** the Gate Keeper!

I think I should create a group...

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Originally Posted by Funny Muffins

Everyone can make enemies, I'm sure he just made one too many..
I had a unique idea of who Marcus was at first, but the scariest thing about Marcus is that he never really did anything horrible to anyone that I could tell.

FACTS!
He let MPK in.
He healed MP.
He offered Mikey a job, I would say first day but he was passed out after day 1 til day like day 5.
So first chance he gets a real soldier into 2nd in command over the sadistic mofo the gatekeeper. (Wither or not he know Gatekeeper was after him is irrelevant at this point, Shawn was killed and Marcus immedietly found someone better from the same area and also from the military to replace him. This would be a good leadership sign right here.)
While whipping and hanging one of the hundreds that he may have lead would be horrid, during a time when I believe human life would be the most valuable resource around, yet it could be excused overlooked and forgotten given the crime.
He upon returning to his office/home he finds that his new recruit is KNOCKING OUT BIXBY, SLAMMING BEERS, and MAKING CALLS YO!
He had concrete evidence of the call.
Gatekeeper wouldn't have let him sit down at the table before a shot would ring out.

He acted appropriately in my opinion, he allowed him to live and sit it out for the time being in the slammer, this would be basically my first choice of action if I had a cell available to house him in.
As for the murder of the family at the gatehouse, what is Marcus to do other than hang Bixby?
He could be excused for his actions to an extent, but when the whole recon team took a bullet that was a tad much.
Maybe the leader of the group, maybe the one who pushed them back to the colony.
But not every last man.

**** the Gate Keeper!

I think I should create a group...

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Here's the reason Marcus is responsible for what happened to the family at the gate/recon team that was killed: He allowed Gatekeeper to have that authority, knowing that he was unhinged. That's what makes him not exactly a nice person. He allowed someone else to do the dirty work and he just laid back allowing it to happen. Knowing some atrocity is occurring and not taking action when you have the power to stop it is nearly as bad pulling the trigger/ordering the execution yourself. That's the only thing I can see that makes Marcus a bad person. It might have even been Gatekeeper's idea for that kind of control. Like he and Marcus were brainstorming one day and they set forth the rules, and when it came time to figure out punishments Gatekeeper came up with this idea, and Marcus said sure why not not realizing how far Gatekeeper would actually take it. Then suddenly he has to live with that decision and can't go back on it or be viewed as soft and therefore: vulnerable......then suddenly with Michael he looked soft and vulnerable.....6 hours later, there's a coup and he's (presumed) dead.

However, I do totally agree with you that he acted correctly in response to Michael's actions and he seemingly even lessened the punishment. He's killed people for saying less if you take him at his word. I feel very sorry for anyone left over in the Colony right now with Gatekeeper....er....Supreme Leader in charge. They are in for one hell of a rough ride. And of course the best part for Supreme Leader? He can easily blame it on M/P/K and say they kidnapped V/T/H. Nothing like a common enemy to rally around to distract the huddled masses from the true villain.

He talks big, he lied of his service.
"I've have men killed for worse!!"
more like
"IF I HAD GUTS I WOULD BE A OUT WITH THE GUARDIANS INSTEAD OF PLAYING Puppy Puppy Pooch Pooch!!"

He might be in charge, but he isn't in charge if you feel me, he might have given Gatekeeper his position because he was the crazy mofo that told everyone to STFU and follow orders from Marcus! I can see GK being the muscle or head of the muscle of the colony and that he has been playing Marcus from day 1!
He might not really KNOW anything other than how to be a dick to blind girls and nurses!
Victor even said he was against Marcus in 19-3 could he have been part of the GK-Krew? I would hope not, he seems like a loner mostly that just stayed by his buddy who Mikey shot IN-DA-FACE!!!
Ha!

Did you hear that music in 19-2?!
It was sad!
Like WTF?!
Will he be back?
Was he just doing his best Angel impression with the whole leader deal?!

Will he be forever remember as PUPPY BOY?!

Tune in next time...

:P

During the We're Not Dead podcast this week, Brit, Greg and Beez discussed whether or not they thought Marcus actually died in the attack Gatekeeper lead against him. They concluded that Marcus isn't dead because why would you kill off such an important character off screen. Here's how I think we'll know for certain Marcus is dead.

If Michael regains control of the Tower: Marcus is dead. Michael hasn't had confidence in his leadership since the War. But the conversation in the hospital with Marcus might have uncovered something in Michael. He might have regained his confidence to lead again. And if Michael usurps Burt for control of the Tower, Marcus has served his purpose and can therefore be written off.

Is this necessarily the case? No. But I think the only other way that Marcus can be alive is if Gatekeepers Assassination attempt was a ruse, and Marcus/Gatekeeper planned to let MPK escape, though how they'd figure VTH would fit into that equation is unknown.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

If Michael regains control of the Tower: Marcus is dead. Michael hasn't had confidence in his leadership since the War. But the conversation in the hospital with Marcus might have uncovered something in Michael. He might have regained his confidence to lead again. And if Michael usurps Burt for control of the Tower, Marcus has served his purpose and can therefore be written off.

Is this necessarily the case? No. But I think the only other way that Marcus can be alive is if Gatekeepers Assassination attempt was a ruse, and Marcus/Gatekeeper planned to let MPK escape, though how they'd figure VTH would fit into that equation is unknown.

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I agree with the first part. Michael was came out of his conversation with Marcus swinging. It was like Michael in the beginning. He was hardcore and fierce. I must say that were this to occur its a beautifully written part. Balanced character interaction and flawless execution of the advancement of a main characters growth.

The second part scares the crap out of me.. its evil EVIL and so twisted.. LOL

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

During the We're Not Dead podcast this week, Brit, Greg and Beez discussed whether or not they thought Marcus actually died in the attack Gatekeeper lead against him. They concluded that Marcus isn't dead because why would you kill off such an important character off screen. Here's how I think we'll know for certain Marcus is dead.

If Michael regains control of the Tower: Marcus is dead. Michael hasn't had confidence in his leadership since the War. But the conversation in the hospital with Marcus might have uncovered something in Michael. He might have regained his confidence to lead again. And if Michael usurps Burt for control of the Tower, Marcus has served his purpose and can therefore be written off.

Is this necessarily the case? No. But I think the only other way that Marcus can be alive is if Gatekeepers Assassination attempt was a ruse, and Marcus/Gatekeeper planned to let MPK escape, though how they'd figure VTH would fit into that equation is unknown.

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The only thing the bugs me about this is Marcus was the big-shot when we got in Chapter 19. He was the one we were waiting to see what would happen with. He came along, got some words in, locked Michael up, gone. If there had been even two more lines with Marcus, I'd be on Team Dead instead. Especially after the small scene with Marcus getting pissed at Hope (pun not intended) gave me an idea of Marcus rivaling Durai. You know, someone we heard of really little, but never heard from again because we're not sure what happened. Everyone who has a few lines is given a death scene. Marcus being the boss battle of the Catalyst would be a huge exception.

I'm not totally opposed to your theory of the Gatekeeper rolling in as the powerhouse. I can see it perfectly. It would just feel extremely off to me.

In terms of if he played his part out. I feel like the Colony gave Michael confidence rather than Marcus. Michael hit shovel dude on his own accord. Michael back-talked Gatekeeper on his own. I think after seeing how miserable the Colony was in comparison to the Tower, Michael thought he did a good job keeping everyone alive. Marcus did contribute to this though, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure if that was his only purpose.

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Originally Posted by AdrianHD

The only thing the bugs me about this is Marcus was the big-shot when we got in Chapter 19. He was the one we were waiting to see what would happen with. He came along, got some words in, locked Michael up, gone. If there had been even two more lines with Marcus, I'd be on Team Dead instead. Especially after the small scene with Marcus getting pissed at Hope (pun not intended) gave me an idea of Marcus rivaling Durai. You know, someone we heard of really little, but never heard from again because we're not sure what happened. Everyone who has a few lines is given a death scene. Marcus being the boss battle of the Catalyst would be a huge exception.

I'm not totally opposed to your theory of the Gatekeeper rolling in as the powerhouse. I can see it perfectly. It would just feel extremely off to me.

In terms of if he played his part out. I feel like the Colony gave Michael confidence rather than Marcus. Michael hit shovel dude on his own accord. Michael back-talked Gatekeeper on his own. I think after seeing how miserable the Colony was in comparison to the Tower, Michael thought he did a good job keeping everyone alive. Marcus did contribute to this though, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure if that was his only purpose.

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I may be in the minority, but it wouldn't bother me if Marcus was dead. Yes, he was the big shot when we got to the Colony but by Marcus trying to make Michael his number 2, Marcus set in motion the chain of events that caused his own downfall. Maybe I'm just used to things like this happening in tv and movies that I've seen where people die off screen and it never gets shown (see MASH).

Seeing Marcus die isn't the important point of the Catalyst chapter. The important part (if you take this all on face value) is that the Colony's command structure is now different and is being run by Gatekeeper. We don't necessarily need to see the change over happen. I agree it leaves the question open ended, which provides the speculation we're indulging in right now, but I don't feel like seeing him die is a priority.

Michael hitting Bixby in the face wasn't a leadership thing. It was protecting his girlfriend who just got zapped with a tazer. Michel back talking isn't anything new. He did that to Burt in the Tower just before he left on the Colony mission. I will grant that he might have realized the differences between the Tower and the Colony, but I feel like having another leader (albeit a poor one) remind him that people die and it happens was more key than the rest of it in my mind. Everything else Michael did inside the Colony was pretty much within his character.

In almost every LOST episode if they "killed" a character off screen they survived....for a little.

LOST was an anomaly though.

I think Marcus is dead. Simply put I don't imagine that Gatekeeper would have left the job undone. He had a mission and that mission was to get rid of Marcus. Gatekeeper doesn't seem the type to assume that something's done without making sure it has been.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

I may be in the minority, but it wouldn't bother me if Marcus was dead. Yes, he was the big shot when we got to the Colony but by Marcus trying to make Michael his number 2, Marcus set in motion the chain of events that caused his own downfall. Maybe I'm just used to things like this happening in tv and movies that I've seen where people die off screen and it never gets shown (see MASH).

Seeing Marcus die isn't the important point of the Catalyst chapter. The important part (if you take this all on face value) is that the Colony's command structure is now different and is being run by Gatekeeper. We don't necessarily need to see the change over happen. I agree it leaves the question open ended, which provides the speculation we're indulging in right now, but I don't feel like seeing him die is a priority.

Michael hitting Bixby in the face wasn't a leadership thing. It was protecting his girlfriend who just got zapped with a tazer. Michel back talking isn't anything new. He did that to Burt in the Tower just before he left on the Colony mission. I will grant that he might have realized the differences between the Tower and the Colony, but I feel like having another leader (albeit a poor one) remind him that people die and it happens was more key than the rest of it in my mind. Everything else Michael did inside the Colony was pretty much within his character.

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I'm probably wrong, but I'd need to re-listen to hear a bit more of Michael. Ever since his arm got messed up, he wasn't the same.

Again, I 110% see exactly your point. I'm trying to fish for a few reasons to stand on my own just because an off-screen (well... not sure what'd you call it) death doesn't seem very We're Alive. Have we had a character of some importance die in the background yet? Scratch got a death moment, compared to Latch and Durai, he wasn't too big. I'm a Lostie, so it might just be my nature to second-guess any death that's not in your face.

Marcus gone or not is still going to result in Gatekeeper having his rule. The Colony did, inevitably, result in Michael's newfound confidence. We can both agree to that. As brought up in We're Not Dead, what particular motives would Gatekeeper have to pursue the Tower? Marcus would be the only one who could fuel a charge, in my eyes (ears?). After his monologue in part 2, I thought he'd have some more importance in an eventually confrontation.

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Originally Posted by AdrianHD

As brought up in We're Not Dead, what particular motives would Gatekeeper have to pursue the Tower? Marcus would be the only one who could fuel a charge, in my eyes (ears?).

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They took all their ammo. That's pretty fucked up.

Snap. Okay, yeah, totally forgot about that. Is it feasible enough to say, "we gotta leave, without much ammo, and look for this group somewhere in L.A. in the middle of the zombie outbreak" though? I still give you that point though .__.

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Originally Posted by AdrianHD

I'm probably wrong, but I'd need to re-listen to hear a bit more of Michael. Ever since his arm got messed up, he wasn't the same.

Again, I 110% see exactly your point. I'm trying to fish for a few reasons to stand on my own just because an off-screen (well... not sure what'd you call it) death doesn't seem very We're Alive. Have we had a character of some importance die in the background yet? Scratch got a death moment, compared to Latch and Durai, he wasn't too big. I'm a Lostie, so it might just be my nature to second-guess any death that's not in your face.

Marcus gone or not is still going to result in Gatekeeper having his rule. The Colony did, inevitably, result in Michael's newfound confidence. We can both agree to that. As brought up in We're Not Dead, what particular motives would Gatekeeper have to pursue the Tower? Marcus would be the only one who could fuel a charge, in my eyes (ears?). After his monologue in part 2, I thought he'd have some more importance in an eventually confrontation.

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There really haven't been all that many deaths in the series (unless you include the slew of Mallers who got straight jacked up in the War). There's been Todd (Lizzy's first boyfriend), Samantha, Paul, Tommy, Bill, That Tower Guard who tried to run for it, Fernando, and Marcus. That's really it. And unless I've forgotten anyone, that's not a whole lot of people. And if you believe the Marcus is dead theory 3/8ths of the people we've seen die in the series happened "off screen" (yeah...it's kinda hard to figure out what to call it): Marcus, That Tower Guard, and Paul. Yes, Marcus is the most important of all these people thus far, but it's not unprecedented to have a character killed off screen, but the other times we've ended up seeing the body so we know they are dead. That's what makes Marcus different, we never confirmed he was dead.

The motivation for Gatekeeper to pursue the Tower is pretty simple. He pins the death of Marcus on the Tower people, Marcus' supporters cry out for revenge, Gatekeeper has the people distracted from the real villain, and gives the populace something to rally around. They would want Gatekeeper to do something about it. And in order to stay in power and show he's the leader they want and he'll gain some supporters.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

The motivation for Gatekeeper to pursue the Tower is pretty simple. He pins the death of Marcus on the Tower people, Marcus' supporters cry out for revenge, Gatekeeper has the people distracted from the real villain, and gives the populace something to rally around. They would want Gatekeeper to do something about it. And in order to stay in power and show he's the leader they want and he'll gain some supporters.

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Seeing as how word travels fast through the Colony, I'm sure everyone already knows Gatekeeper doesn't like Marcus. GK already said it himself that "they'll finally understand what I've been saying all along." It's common knowledge. So it's pointless to place blame for his death on them, especially when so many didn't like him anyway. Mascaria brought up a good point that the Tower folks stole all their ammo which is more than enough motivation to seek them out. WND suggested the idea of their being a tracking device on the hummer. It's a reasonable guess. There's also the chance another Outpost spotted the direction they were heading.

My thought about gatekeeper is that he's like skittles with a hidden agenda.