Hmm... Perhaps the reason Michael seems to have a personal interest in Randy is that he was somehow responsible for his parents' death. Would fit my estranged brother theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
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Thats what I said.
wishful thinking.... you gotta give me that at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
I really doubt that it's going to be a whole "It's small world" situation. Michael could just be vindictive, as Randy could've been an asshole in the depot.
Picture this:
"After I saw the behemoth, I knew it was over. My only hope... was Randy. Him, in a room on the other side of the hall. We watched each other intently as the steps became louder, each stomp followed by heavy breathing. Only one of us was going to get out alive, at least I thought that's what would happen anyway. I had to use him as a distraction. I know it seems horrible but it was the only way."
"I break eye contact, looking for a way out. Randy bolts, his boots hitting the grating, drawing the big one's attention. I followed in suit, seeing a doorway near to where I last heard Randy's steps. I made it through the door as he grabs my arm, I pull and pull but he wouldn't let go. The behemoth found us and swung, smashing Randy against the door and breaking my arm. I made my way out and decided to forget that there was anyone else in the depot."
"Well, until he came back at least."
nice. With one exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Sid
how would he have known randys name in that scenario
;)
Obviously Michael's omniscient. Duh.
Alright, I'll give ya that one :)
Wow. Impressive. I could hear Michael's voice in my head the whole time I read it. Well done!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Sid
The only thing that brings me back to the "its a small world" thing is, up to this point....it has been. Think of all the connections between people that already exist and its hard to rule out one more.
plus LOST did it.
Ooh...Low blow. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
Not from me it isn't
*sigh*
LOST did everything right, until the last season...
This is actually a really good point. Gives me more to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
Here I am! Let's see if I can still rock this like a hurricane. Confessions below, I'm just going to jump into the meat and 'taters:Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
So let me just start out by saying that I think my neighbors think I'm crazy. I was out in the front yard Monday afternoon, cutting the grass and listening to WA. When Michael dropped the Raydon Labs bomb at the end... I exclaimed SONOFABITCH! rather loudly aaannnd heads turned across the street. :o
It would seem that there very well could be an unusual parallel between the humans and zombies... early on, we witness Randy acting on his own with his own zombie posse during the kidnap of Tanya. Later he is seen dutifully standing at TOWTM's right hand as his lieutenant during the Colony siege. More recently, we see Randy once again seemingly operating outside of TOWTM's guidance, this time solo. We've discussed the nature and possibility of zombie factions with the (failing) puppet master theme of the Season 4 artwork... With the theories here that not only is Randy is a Smart One, he may also have his own agenda, it struck me today that Randy is playing Scratch to TOWTM's Durai.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamKerrington
I'm very curious to know what the numbers represent that Tanya was counting off... what the unit of measure is. Counts of parts per(x), total, of what? Antibodies? Saturation levels? What did she learn during the four month jump cut... I recall that during her "stay" at Irwin she was not able to discern a difference between human and zombie blood. I found this reference chart of what is/can be tested for in blood work. It seems like there may be some promising leads buried in there.
I'd also like to echo the sentiments that she certainly seems to have gone a bit mad scientist on us. Harkening back to Grognaurd's theory that the zombies aren't learning to speak, we are learning to understand them, obliquely suggesting that we are already infected... I'd like to go ahead and throw on the good ol' foil hat and suggest that Tanya is starting to succumb to the zombie infection... only she's a smart one and it is expressing as the excitement for the macabre and the drive for the experimentation to figure out the zombie infection.
Jeez people, this has probably got to be the heaviest chapter thread since I joined the forums, Wow. Sooo many links to follow and read up on.
Not quite sure where I fall on Formic Acid and the formaldehyde yet... so much to digest there.
You see, everywhere in the country, when you loose your khakis, you have no pants on. But in Boston when you lose your khakis, you need to call a taxi to get home. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by scbubba
<confession>
I feel badly that I haven't gotten back in here sooner. I have to admit that I can be a bit flaky and easily distracted sometimes... lately it's been kinda "a thing." Being utterly stumped and stymied by TOWTM et al. ain't helping either... (Nor is internet stuff. "Imma get on WA after work and post some stuff and... *thump* nope, internet.)
I have at least now joined the 21st century and gotten a brand spanking new smartphone, having upgraded from a Motorola Razr. Not kidding about that. With it, I have been mostly following this thread, though I am hesitant to post with it, given the usual structure of my posts.
</confession>
wow, guys look who made it! (yells at all the yellow, theory guys) glad to have you on board!Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Shirt
so a lot to get through, eh? well lets break it down like this..
Randy as a zombie
I like the idea of randy having his own agenda, by doing so you create yet another “anti-hero” within the story. Randy playing the subordinate with a desire for the endgame to happen sooner –v- later seems to fit the bill nicely. Not so much that he is turning on his fellow biters, or looking for a cure himself…more like. “you fuckers are having a hard time figuring this stuff out…heres a hint”
Randy as a human
The last two pages of posts have been mostly about michaels relationship with randy. While I agree that the notion of Michael knowing randy from before is a bit of a stretch…its really not that far out of left field when you consider JUST HOW DAMN INTERLOCKING THE MAJORITY OF THE CHARACTERS BACKSTORIES ARE. (im okay, really). I put forth earlier tonight the idea of randy somehow being involved in mikes parents car crash (drunk driver,perhaps?) and while I like that idea, logistically it may or may not work(I forget where he said his parents lived). But, it’s the sort of connection that both fits within the story well and explains the added animosity Michael has for randy.
Randy as a zombie II
Another road we could travel is randy leaving Michael behind at the waterworks much the same way TOWTM did CJ at the other tower. The only zom that we are aware of in that scene was the behemoth and the one they shot. I doubt the one regular left standing would have been there had randy been human still. Call me crazy but I feel like if the behemoth would've got ahold of randy, or Michael for that matter…there wouldn’t be much left to turn. I personally feel confident that randy was turned pre-encounter at waterworks.
Tanyas numbers
Im still puzzling over these as well. Thus far ive turned over nothing, but one thing that does strike me as odd is why would she want to open her up right at the moment of turning? Perhaps to witness physical changes to some internal organ? That could perhaps point us in the right direction. Ive found some random stuff on the kidneys that sounds interesting..but nothing good enough to report. Im thinking the numbers could be ppm or ppb. Considering they don’t add up on any other level.
Tanyas turning
Im sorry, but I just don’t see what the fuss is about. I mean hats off to Shirley for playing the role of an obsessive literally, perfectly…but to that’s all this is. Imagine if you gave someone who was obsessed with scrapbooking access to every moment in their life as a photo, or every movie stub they ever bought? Sure, to us her behavior may seem a bit crazed…but, to each his/her own.
Formic acid
My ant obsession when it comes to this story is pretty obvious. But I see it simply as a plot device. The idea of randy carrying around a couple jars of formic acid could be as simple as this; A: he could be using the stuff for basically “curing” his meat. Or B: it could be laying a clue as said above for our “good guys” to find. The idea of the undead bodies(zombies) somehow precessing, or being altered by formic acid is waaaaayyyyy out in left field…that’s why I like it. But im realistic enough to recognize that its simply a way of explaining something we cant grasp yet. If your trying to explain something to someone and they have no clue what the hell your talking about most of us use other, simplier examples that they DO understand…then we bite them on the neck. riiight?
Tying it all together
Basically, if I was writing this story(and THANK HEAVENS IM NOT) I would…
Have my good guys looking for clues and finding nothing.
Have a character on the enemy side who’s loyalties are somewhat questionable in the right place at the right time.
Have that guy/gal be someone from one of the good guys past so it’s a recognizable face
Have “bad guy with an agenda” there because he wants all this to end…either way.
Have “BGWA” drop a clue for the good guys to find…while also reminding them that they’re getting sloppy.
Boom…things actually happen.
Whew, yea…massive posts this episode is right…I think we all have just been waiting for this shit to happen though…and welcome to the real world of mobile posting redshirt…reminds you that computers…they aint SO bad after all.
Todd out
Formic Acid
The stuff stinks. I think it was Randy's version of the sweat bottles. We hear "Acid" and we think super nasty face melting stuff. Vinegar is an acid, but I do not think he is using ad as food flavor. We hear the bottles bounce around the alley like they get kicked or knocked over. Definetly not a smash. Maybe a tripwire? /Shrug. Then a bunch of biters 1.0 show up. This is interesting, it is the first time in a long while they have been encountered as a pack of wufs.
:tinfoil:
Up until now we hear the ominous moan/roar that calls them. This is different.
I also found it interesting that we hear a murder of crows sound off and a bunch of biters show up.
Hey Red Shirt! Good to see you in here and Welcome to the future with the new phone... :)
That's a great thought about how Randy and TOWTM might be interacting. I keep going back and forth on whether Randy is on Team Ink or Team Randy. Or Both? Either way, I think Randy has an agenda but I'm not sure if it is pro-human or anti-Ink.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Shirt
This episode has got me questioning so many things about who knows what and who has an agenda. We've known that Michael is very secretive about some things and Randy's appearance is bringing that to the fore. Tanya's exuberance at someone else's death could be, as, 7odd pointed out, an obsessive personality being acted perfectly. It could also indicate that Tanya has her own agenda and a store of info that she's keeping to herself. I pointed out before how I don't think we have any evidence that Tanya has a journal or that her journal entries are included with all the rest. As obsessed as she is with documenting her work with the video cam (autopsy on #2 + the work on red shirt girl in 39-1) and her push to get all the info recorded from all the other journals, it seems odd that we would not have anything on her journaling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Shirt
You know she's recording information.... but what and where and why not share it? As others brought up earlier in this discussion, she moved out of LA for "a great opportunity" (claimed to be an ER vet clinic) but she didn't go so far as to not be able to get LA easy enough. Could she have been working with someone/company involved with the start of the Z?
Her training and work as a vet gives her enough medical background to do some kind of work with testing subjects/drugs/chemicals/etc on living organisms, maybe even humans. Maybe as a vet she is also a hard core animal rights/PETA type who thinks that since people test stuff on animals it's ok to turn the tables and do some tests on people (ok, maybe just bad people like prisoners or something). If this is the case, she may have some background in what happens when people are exposed to whatever this is. LO #2 may have surprised her because it was something that she didn't expect to see because of someone else meddling with the "normal" turning thus her surprise at what it looked like outside and inside.
tl;dr
I'm thinking Tanya's backstory is missing some really big sections, she is withholding a ton of information, and she may be involved with the origins of the outbreak.
I must say that I'm relieved. It would have been intriguing but too soap opera-y.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
cant be if he couldn't read Pegs :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Sid
The red shirt always dies... give it time
Something I noticed as far as Randy's secret superhero (well, superzombie) identity. KC refuted the whole adoption thing... But made no mention of the idea in the same post of Randy being Michael's brother. He could still be adopted (Randy, not Mike), a stepsibling, just not very close, or maybe they had some sort of falling out pre-outbreak... I dunno, it's just an idea. What do you guys think?
No, he most likely was from CJs tower, but was called a techie by SeanQuote:
Originally Posted by Elisa
yea, the crows bit was a clue...or was it KC f-ing with us? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognaurd
and about formic acid, by improved food I was reffering to the fact that it can be used break down (ferment) fresh flesh..mmmmm, tasty
look at it this way, it could be used for both the options we are talking about. the fact that the smell was in the air prior to mike and co entering the alley could be randy laying a "safe trail" for the other biters to follow. as we both know, a single ant can follow a trail its never taken before based on the pheromones laid down by the first ant to take that path. make those ants human sized....and I bet that's a stinky rail to follow. so I like the "sweat jar" idea, I just like it for different reasons.
the other nice thing about the broken bottles being formic acid is it ties the story back to the scene of Michael, saul, and angel sitting around talking about ants from season one. all of this..damn near everything we have talked about in this thread...makes sense within the confines of what we know. introducing a completely new idea to the story, with so many pieces that can be put together from what we have now...I just don't see it.
truthfully, if this goes in another direction, i'll be a bit surprised and apprehensive.
todd out
:tinfoil:Wow, too bad you'd need more than two bottles to make all of those zombie bodies disappear.O_o Could have explained all of the missing zombies.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
Yea, but ants do not really just follow one ant around. They really only start doing the train thing when it is reinforced. Even with the people, zombies do not come running with just a single person. Overload the scent of lots and lots of people and they swarm.
you wont convince me otherwise. im sticking with my idea,(zombie trail) you stick to yours (zombie swarm jars)...rep for the winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognaurd
Nah, I think we are saying the same thing. A little bit is a zombie trail, while a lot of it is a zombie swarm. The biters stink on their own and that does leave a trai. But, the next ant that goes out of the colony does not follow the trail from one ant. However, if a lot of ants start taking the same path then they start chaining. I remember watching an old video where one ant will pick up another ant and carry it to food resource. Then, they each do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
I listened to WA Fancast and they discussed that F and O could be Flourine and oxygen. Good point and maybe Randy was trying to expose them to a bit of ground zero. Nice idea, but I think it is ant trail, but I guess I differ from you that it can also function like a sweat jar.
Also, I said Formic Acid, but formaldehyde is the same basic concept. (H-C=O)- H or OH. In terms of calories it is cheap.
Maybe it is just random alleyway noise, but we hear stuff being knocked over before Randy drops the bag
This story could take off, full steam ahead, if CJ sees the game spotter photo of Randy. Provided that Micheal doesn't hide it from her in order to cover up the fact that he went rouge and left poor ol Puck behind. I think the chemical bottles and Raydon Labs thing might be too much to not share with her, though.
Micheal was ready to talk about his arm but he's still hesitant to discuss Randy, so I can't guess how he's going talk about this. "Yeah, I had a funny feeling about this hippy zombie carrying a plastic bag. I was like, 'Yo, what's in the bag.' and he was like 'Arrrawwwgghh!' and then I was like, 'Come on, yo. I just want to see.' and he tried to pretend that it wasn't his bag and he was holding it for his cousin. Ain't nobody got time for that."
Congrats Grog. Not sure when you got him.
Attachment 2752
Thanks, it was earlier this week. I cheated, though. I just shot him again after NikVooDoo got him at range. 7odd gave me a shoutout, also. Now, we just have to figure out who is pulling Ink's strings and what is it that frightened the mallers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
Funny how we have heard of gatherers ( farmers ) scavengers and others in the colony story. Tanya is a researcher. Who are the stalkers and the hunters and what are they hunting? I think the family is older and more important than simply organized crime, but that's just me. Are they ancient protectors or trying to bring on the end of days?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognaurd
Yeah, that's what I think too. Something about the rings. They're Borromean rings. Both in the chapter art and in Lizzy's description.
Woo HOO! Good shootin' Grog. But we gotta stay on this cuz we know it's never enough. Shoot him again!Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
In the wake of 7odd & Grog talking about ant trails, I noticed that Puck very specifically mentions that humans can also follow a trail. In that same exchange I got the impression that the "biter funk" in the alley they walked down was particularly strong. Not sure if that indicates that it was an intentionally done thing by Randy et al. Or maybe that was an indicator that more zombies were there...
I wonder if the chemical and the typical biter smell are supposed to be intertwined? From Season 1, we are given info that regular Zs smell like shit and very strongly. One could say that it's the normal state of hygiene after a while. But I think it happens pretty quickly (no facts on this at the moment) and its a result of the change to Z. I say all that because I seem to recall that methane metabolizing is a big part of formic acid in the human body. And I think that the smell of methane leaving the human body could have a shit-like aroma.... But I'm not an expert on the chemistry so I may be way off on this.
It is possible. Most animals make carbon dioxide instead of formic acid. Ants and some insects use it to communicate and sometimes in offense/defense. What is nice about it is that it is calorically cheap, only one carbon and does not waste nitrogen or sulfur.