Chapter 37-3: Balance of Power

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

Hello.



Hey al'Thor,

you are right: it is hard to stomach CJ's action. And it really boils down to this: she feels betrayed by Saul and Victor. There is no trust between her and the two guys. Just remember, how things went:

In the very first place it was Saul who asked CJ and Victor to let down the distrust and secrecy. Do you remember his bargain with CJ about the information in her safe and working together? It is the level of distrust and animosity of strangers in a world which fell apart. And CJ gave in. They started to work together and to team up. And later it was Saul who made CJ act by using a lie to fuel her anger and lead her into her current tragic situation. Let's get into detail here:
In the first place CJ tried to argue Saul and Victor out of any action against the Colony. Also she fell in love with Saul, but he let her down, which might have been a certain burden for CJ after all. Even when the baby came up, CJ tried to reason, if this was the baby of someone else. So in the beginning she did everything to stay away from the Colony.
Then, when they started to plan their actions, it was CJ who gave really everything - it was for her that the rebellion actually worked pretty well; she put a lot of effort into the preparations and spent all/ a lot of her guns in order to make it work. Then, when everything was in turmoil, she even fought Scratch, probably because she still felt something for Saul. And the result of this was her leg being cut off.

Learning afterwards that everything that happened roots in the single lie by Saul and Victor. CJ gave everything, lost almost everything. Her dissapointment is huge, and can hardly be measured by anyone. So, yeah: I think CJ's reaction is OK and even logical, although it is a pure psychological thing. It does not make sense in a way that two able bodies and fighters are out of the game - for now. And Lizzy's baby can be taken care for by other people devaluating Saul's role in it.

So, all in all ... Maybe that helps.
Bets wishes!
Liam

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Until I recently relistened to the series I had forget Saul lied to her too about that. I thought he was just going off what Victor had said.. The outlook has changed about her some but I still do not like her. I did not like her in the beginning cause I am sure she let the air out of Victors tank. I also believe she has been manipulative form the beginning.. She has used them for her own purpose. So when it was time for Saul to ask for the favor to be returned, she did not.. So they lied to manipulate her.. So as far as I am concerned on that aspect they are even..
Her leg was her fault. Saul told her not to go in alone.. Biggest turn off from her for me was her comment to Tanya about crippling her.

Like has been mentioned, CJ's rise to power was WAY too quick and forced. Yes she brought guns and tried to help the Colony (they don't know her motive behind it but ignoring that) but I have a hard time believing that even the foolish colony who allowed themselves to be controlled by Marcus and then Gatekeeper and then the mallers, would vote and elect a person as leader who is drugged up and passed out on an operating table close to death. The scene where Tanya first learns about it is supposed to be less than 24 hours after her surgery. So even if the vote just happened minutes before, as far as the colony knows CJ is bleeding out and dying on the bed in there. That doesn't seem like even a remotely logical option on their part. I think it is only done to further the story line along. We are getting to the end of the show and we need to make some things happen, be them realistic or not.

Other issue I have is not with this chapter but the story in general now... where is all the ammo coming from? After 8 months in a Zombie Apocalypse that is including multiple wars and shootouts will another band of marauding convicts, which happens to be located in a part of the US known for is incredibly strict gun and ammo laws and no ammo manufacturers... and considering that 2 areas of the map that likely held what little ammo is even left were nuked recently, and whatever ammo was left is getting shot out of the mini-gun on the chopper at about 5,000 rounds per minute... how would anyone even have anything left? It doesn't make sense and whenever I hear the .50 cal or mini-gun firing it snaps me out of the story.

Something I neglected to add to my post above, is a guess at a coming episode name: "Chain of Command."

Hello there,

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Originally Posted by Unit9014

Other issue I have is not with this chapter but the story in general now... where is all the ammo coming from? After 8 months in a Zombie Apocalypse that is including multiple wars and shootouts will another band of marauding convicts, which happens to be located in a part of the US known for is incredibly strict gun and ammo laws and no ammo manufacturers... and considering that 2 areas of the map that likely held what little ammo is even left were nuked recently, and whatever ammo was left is getting shot out of the mini-gun on the chopper at about 5,000 rounds per minute... how would anyone even have anything left? It doesn't make sense and whenever I hear the .50 cal or mini-gun firing it snaps me out of the story.

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I am not so certain. Just consider a couple of "facts from the WA-verse":
The zombocalypse spread within 2 two days through the complete areas of LA. And only like four major groups "survived" by hiding and fighting. The groups were of various sizes, with the Colony and the Mallers having been the bigger groups; the Mallers had their size based on the people held in custody AND by enslaving other people; the Colony grew in size by allowing more and more people to get involved in the survival-campaign. With all four groups in mind we speak of likely less than 1000 people from the LA-area. Ok, we had several hundreds, maybe even several thousands of people being rescued by Irwin and Boulder in order to find shelter far away from the hotspot. So all in all there were less 1% of the people in and around LA who survived the zomb-onslaught.
As for the survivors who remained in LA: each group had its scavenging groups, which searched all the places for things you need - food, water, dipers, the latest Playboy magazin, batteries,..., AND guns and ammuniation. Guns and ammo they would find in any police station, gun-shop like Burt's Locked and Loaded, and many (if not all) military, and coast-guard facilities etc. Ok, you might argue that during the first two days a lot of the ammo was spend to fight the horde; and you may also argue that a lot of ammo and guns would be brought to Irwin or Boulder (or other safe spots); and still: you would have things left. And considering the bits and pieces in relation to the low number of survivors I would felt hard pressed to believe that the survivors in LA would run out of (sh)it sooner than later - especially because the considerations so far do not account for any guns held by private people - no matter how tight gun control regulations are in LA.
Also keep in mind: The number of events in which a lot of ammo was used to fight (the War; any bigger zomb-encounter; the taking over of, the rebellion within, and finally defending the Colony) is quite low; in any other situation only very little amounts of ammo was used to shoot solitary or small numbers of zombies, which in return would be no stress or burden on the ressources ...

What do you think about these thoughts?
Best wishes!
Liam

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Originally Posted by Eviebae

So, Isn't it interesting that they are fracturing over this or that drama instead of realizing they are all on the same team--humanity.

also, how do you think the ring will play in the story?

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Interesting that you should mention the ring. It has an image of the Borromean Rings. Three interconnected rings with outward facing arrows. Remove one ring and the bond for all of them is broken. http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...orromean+rings

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

Hello.



Hey al'Thor,

you are right: it is hard to stomach CJ's action. And it really boils down to this: she feels betrayed by Saul and Victor. There is no trust between her and the two guys. Just remember, how things went:

In the very first place it was Saul who asked CJ and Victor to let down the distrust and secrecy. Do you remember his bargain with CJ about the information in her safe and working together? It is the level of distrust and animosity of strangers in a world which fell apart. And CJ gave in. They started to work together and to team up. And later it was Saul who made CJ act by using a lie to fuel her anger and lead her into her current tragic situation. Let's get into detail here:
In the first place CJ tried to argue Saul and Victor out of any action against the Colony. Also she fell in love with Saul, but he let her down, which might have been a certain burden for CJ after all. Even when the baby came up, CJ tried to reason, if this was the baby of someone else. So in the beginning she did everything to stay away from the Colony.
Then, when they started to plan their actions, it was CJ who gave really everything - it was for her that the rebellion actually worked pretty well; she put a lot of effort into the preparations and spent all/ a lot of her guns in order to make it work. Then, when everything was in turmoil, she even fought Scratch, probably because she still felt something for Saul. And the result of this was her leg being cut off.

Learning afterwards that everything that happened roots in the single lie by Saul and Victor. CJ gave everything, lost almost everything. Her dissapointment is huge, and can hardly be measured by anyone. So, yeah: I think CJ's reaction is OK and even logical, although it is a pure psychological thing. It does not make sense in a way that two able bodies and fighters are out of the game - for now. And Lizzy's baby can be taken care for by other people devaluating Saul's role in it.

So, all in all ... Maybe that helps.
Bets wishes!
Liam

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Thank you for the response. I still don't see any reason for kicking Vic and Saul out. What the people in the group need to realize is that humanity is close to the end, acts such as lying (as long as the lie doesn't harm anyone) should not be punishable by banishment. The lie that Saul and Vic told benefited the poor people who had to deal with the Mallers and Scratch (cunt, pardon me but she is). That is why if in the next episode they are kicked out, I will find it hard to believe. The whole colony or w.e should logically see it as two able bodies being tossed aside bc of a personal issue with the leader. Lol I know this is all opinion and non of what I'm saying matters, but it is my view.

Along with comments made about ammo. I agree that it is far fetched for all this ammo being used without the explanation on where it comes from. Similar to Battlestar Galactica, where the hell are they getting all this food, ammo and other necessities. But keep in mind ammo cartridges can be repressed or w.e and all you need with it is a big bag of gun powder and literally "BAM" you have ways to make more ammo. This story is great, Scratch as much as I hate hate hate her, she does her part well in being a terrific villain. I think Michael will be back in charge the way it should be, and CJ will be a tactician.

Hi there,

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Originally Posted by al'Thor

Thank you for the response. I still don't see any reason for kicking Vic and Saul out. What the people in the group need to realize is that humanity is close to the end, acts such as lying ...

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I have no reason to disagree with you on this one. But ever since we listen to WA - and basically listening to/ reading/ watching other zombie-stories - it almost always boils down to the individual's personality and psychology, and not the wise decision being made by the observer. From a more or less objective or neutral point of view it is madness to disband Victor and Saul; but CJ is in charge, and her decision - as logical as they are in terms of psychology and personal feelings - is as poor as it can get. She is very selective about her reasons and does not keep the bigger picture - the ones that Kimmet and Angel had in mind. And that actually will be a very certain reason why she will fail - yet again. I am not so certain, though, about how acceptable good advice and wise opinions are to her. And I just hope that Michael can talk some sense into her.

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Originally Posted by al'Thor

Along with comments made about ammo. I agree that it is far fetched for all this ammo being used without the explanation on where it comes from.

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Actually we have the explanations pretty often - Burt's shop was raided by the Mallers, CJ told about the scavenging parties getting stuff from the military base and the police, many people ran and run around with their personal guns etc. I think Kc has provided plenty of explanation where all the guns come from; and I don't see the necessity to explain it on every third or fifth episode. But this is just my opinion.

Best wishes!
Liam

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Originally Posted by al'Thor

Along with comments made about ammo. I agree that it is far fetched for all this ammo being used without the explanation on where it comes from. Similar to Battlestar Galactica, where the hell are they getting all this food, ammo and other necessities.

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In my opinion, the access to firearms and ammonition is plausible. There are no wild firefights on a weekly basis. Although this may sound slightly biased - the story takes place on NRA home soil. It might be a cliché but I guess that it is easier to acquire automatic weapons and enough ammunition than some alcohol or porn. Yeah, we liberal and firearms rejecting Europeans will be pretty screwed when z-day happens.

Firstly, congrats to the newly weds from Bonnie Scotland :yay:

Now to the serious bit :)

CJ is a bufty ( Scottish vernacular for a somewhat less than nice person :) )

She left Victor essentially without a pot to p**s in when his B.A. set ran empty on the recce a while back. Now she takes the moral high ground regarding Shaun :mad: Jeez I thought only my good lady was that mendacious/vindictive/hormonally challenged :)

Saul was right not to p*mp her. If he was no good she would have told everyone :rolleyes:

Anywhoo , night night from Bonnie Scotland folks and be nice to each other :)

Choagy FFCUK The SPFL (Copyright)

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

Hello there,



I am not so certain. Just consider a couple of "facts from the WA-verse":
The zombocalypse spread within 2 two days through the complete areas of LA. And only like four major groups "survived" by hiding and fighting. The groups were of various sizes, with the Colony and the Mallers having been the bigger groups; the Mallers had their size based on the people held in custody AND by enslaving other people; the Colony grew in size by allowing more and more people to get involved in the survival-campaign. With all four groups in mind we speak of likely less than 1000 people from the LA-area. Ok, we had several hundreds, maybe even several thousands of people being rescued by Irwin and Boulder in order to find shelter far away from the hotspot. So all in all there were less 1% of the people in and around LA who survived the zomb-onslaught.
As for the survivors who remained in LA: each group had its scavenging groups, which searched all the places for things you need - food, water, dipers, the latest Playboy magazin, batteries,..., AND guns and ammuniation. Guns and ammo they would find in any police station, gun-shop like Burt's Locked and Loaded, and many (if not all) military, and coast-guard facilities etc. Ok, you might argue that during the first two days a lot of the ammo was spend to fight the horde; and you may also argue that a lot of ammo and guns would be brought to Irwin or Boulder (or other safe spots); and still: you would have things left. And considering the bits and pieces in relation to the low number of survivors I would felt hard pressed to believe that the survivors in LA would run out of (sh)it sooner than later - especially because the considerations so far do not account for any guns held by private people - no matter how tight gun control regulations are in LA.
Also keep in mind: The number of events in which a lot of ammo was used to fight (the War; any bigger zomb-encounter; the taking over of, the rebellion within, and finally defending the Colony) is quite low; in any other situation only very little amounts of ammo was used to shoot solitary or small numbers of zombies, which in return would be no stress or burden on the ressources ...

What do you think about these thoughts?
Best wishes!
Liam

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I can understand the groups getting consolidated and bands going out to to scavange but I don't see them getting very much stuff. A lot of the types of firearms that they are supposedly using were banned or heavily regulated in CA in the 90s so not a lot of private citizens would have them. A lot of what you find in peoples homes will be fixed mag and hunting stuff, some handguns and shotguns, but I doubt a lot of AR/M-16 rifles. Those who do have them likely have them in safes as well, and except maybe for latch and some of the maller crew, probably not a lot of safe crackers out there.

As for going to police stations, law enforcement does have a lot of weapons, but they don't stockpile ammo. For years they actually have been severely short stocked. As a shooting enthusiast who grew up in southern california it always annoyed me that you often couldn't find ammo because law enforcement got first dibs. They couldn't source enough on their own through wholesale channels and so they would send officers around to local sporting goods stores to buy out their entire inventory. My brother in law who is a sheriff out their said they also dropped down the requirements for how often officers had to qualify because they didn't have enough ammo for the officers to train and shoot with.

So by now to find more ammo they are likely having to scout pretty far out and are not likely to find the calibers of what they need for the guns they are supposedly shooting. Granted it is a show, not reality and you have to take some things with a grain of salt, just something that has bugged me in more recent episodes... no mention of ammo shortages and unloading with firearms that shoot in the thousands of rounds a minute like it's no big deal.

Does any one know what type of gun Bert may be working on in the colony

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Originally Posted by Lifeboard2

Does any one know what type of gun Bert may be working on in the colony

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It is the .50 cal from the hummer if I am not mistaken. Assuming it is an M2.

So...I know this is late and the next chapter is already done, but I just now finished 37-3 and just had to vent a little.

I have never had a character in a story go from my absolute favorite to absolute most hated so fast. CJ really showed her true colors this episode. And all the people from the colony and boulder (I'm assuming those are the 2 main groups who "voted" CJ into "power") really showed how stupid they are. I mean really? I know she's a great planner and all that, but you're going to vote someone into power who just lost their leg? Do you realize how emotionally traumatizing (as well as obviously physically traumatizing) that is? You really want someone going through that to lead you right now? Dumbasses. And even apart from that, CJ is a terrible leader. Now I see how Dunbar fell in the first place. You're going to kick two of your strongest out because they had manipulate you emotionally because you're too much of a bitch to help in the first place? Way to let your emotions rule you CJ. I don't care what she's going through emotionally right now, being such a good planner she should know better. AND THEN she has the nerve to think Micheal is going to want to help her now? As soon as he finds out (He doesn't know yet, right? I don't think he does, but I was already kinda fuming at this point lol so I wasn't paying the most attention) he's gonna be like "Uh...see ya." Or there's going to be a major power struggle. I would like to hope that if someone points out all these flaws to the people who want CJ in power they will see why they're wrong but idk...they should be able to see that without anyone pointing it out so maybe they're hopeless anyway. I say f*** 'em and the original crew plus the other military guys go and do things up right at Dunbar.

Whew...that's the end of my rant lol. Just had to get that off my chest. Now I'm gonna listen to the next chapter and Kc will probably make me feel stupid for what I've said here. Or maybe I'll feel validated. Either way...damn good story Kc, I've never been this emotionally involved in a fictional story or the characters within.

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Originally Posted by Shaggers

So...I know this is late and the next chapter is already done, but I just now finished 37-3 and just had to vent a little.

I have never had a character in a story go from my absolute favorite to absolute most hated so fast. CJ really showed her true colors this episode. And all the people from the colony and boulder (I'm assuming those are the 2 main groups who "voted" CJ into "power") really showed how stupid they are. I mean really? I know she's a great planner and all that, but you're going to vote someone into power who just lost their leg? Do you realize how emotionally traumatizing (as well as obviously physically traumatizing) that is? You really want someone going through that to lead you right now? Dumbasses. And even apart from that, CJ is a terrible leader. Now I see how Dunbar fell in the first place. You're going to kick two of your strongest out because they had manipulate you emotionally because you're too much of a bitch to help in the first place? Way to let your emotions rule you CJ. I don't care what she's going through emotionally right now, being such a good planner she should know better. AND THEN she has the nerve to think Micheal is going to want to help her now? As soon as he finds out (He doesn't know yet, right? I don't think he does, but I was already kinda fuming at this point lol so I wasn't paying the most attention) he's gonna be like "Uh...see ya." Or there's going to be a major power struggle. I would like to hope that if someone points out all these flaws to the people who want CJ in power they will see why they're wrong but idk...they should be able to see that without anyone pointing it out so maybe they're hopeless anyway. I say f*** 'em and the original crew plus the other military guys go and do things up right at Dunbar.

Whew...that's the end of my rant lol. Just had to get that off my chest. Now I'm gonna listen to the next chapter and Kc will probably make me feel stupid for what I've said here. Or maybe I'll feel validated. Either way...damn good story Kc, I've never been this emotionally involved in a fictional story or the characters within.

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Oh boy are you gonna feel so conflicted after the next 3 episodes.... :rolleyes: