Meh they clearly need an Apache to go zombie hunting, fletchette rockets will deal with zombies... 30mm cannon will finish off anything still twitching
Printable View
Meh they clearly need an Apache to go zombie hunting, fletchette rockets will deal with zombies... 30mm cannon will finish off anything still twitching
I don't think they evolved based off of thier surroundings. That would require multiple generations breeding with traits that kept the better suited ones alive. Evolving sudden changes like that isn't Darwinian, but more Lamarckian. Even so, my guess is that neither are the case. The Little Ones appear to have been created or came from somewhere. Where? I have no clue? For all I know Pinstripes grew them in a test tube, mixed zombie blood with super baby blood, or something. But once the original batch of Little Ones came to exist, I believe they grew up at a slow rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
We witnessed them as being little all the way up until the assault on the Ice Rink by the Mallers (that's based off my memory, correct me if we've seen Little Ones in the story beyond that point). So presumably, the original batch of tattooed Little Ones have had months (from about August to November) to grow into this full sized Inklings. My guess is that the original batch of tattooed and numbered Inklings took those months to grow up. But if bitten by one, the change to an inkling is almost instant (instant being 24 hours maybe?).
Also, I think the Little One's possessed some of thier adult counterpart traits, just in a weaker form. Sure Bricks severed ones arm, but I think he used the truck door as a sort of axe to repeatedly slam it on the Little One's arm until it severed. But prior to that, Lizzy narrates that Tardust shot at the Little One but only managed to piss it off. Does this mean he shot it but didn't pierce it's skin, or did he shoot at it and annoy it. Can't tell. Maybe the Little Ones had tough skin, but it wasn't until they were a full grown Inkling that they possessed this very noticeable thick hide.
-also, in regards to the spray and pray/one shot, one kill discussion: I shoot about 20 to 40 million per milliliter but it only takes one to get the job done...just saying.
Excellent break down. I was just trying to throw out other ideas to get the wheels turning. Good call on the Darwin/Lamarck correction, but being that they are presumably some sort of genetic mutation, I was proposing that they ARE 'evolving' within in a generation. Still, your argument standsQuote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
Thanks mate! I'm sorry if I came off sounding like, "Oh look at me, I know the difference between words!" Totally didn't mean it. But yeah, I get what you mean; these Inklings are something unlike nature has seen before. I am going to be floored if we find out they are the result of only The Haze. There has to be a hand of meddling there; whether it's military, psychotic geneticist turned zombie king, or whatever!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
My only issue with this is, why hasn't any the other zombies evolve as well? Only the PimpZombie ones are changing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
My only problem with that is it just seems kinda "comic book-ish" to me, which for the level and degree of reality put into the story would be just too hard to swallow. Like the geneticist, or terrorist group thing, or so many other ideas (excluding the growth and mutation stuff), I just can't buy into most if not any of them. The simplest and most believable idea to me is that this shit just happened, and now they gotta deal with it, maybe never having found out exactly what caused it except for best guesses, and by the end everybody's just gotta start over and get on with their lives having collectively experienced a near extinction event. That doesn't mean some crazy shit isn't going to happen from now till then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggernator
:cool:
Hi there,
little-ones do not mutate from one state into another; it is not like changing from human to zombie and done. As Glenn pointed out at the elementary school: they keep changing, at least for quite a while.
What, if the type of "little-one-infection" is dependant on the level of the "little-one-zombie-grade"? Two examples with the same little-one:
- little-one #1 is small yet, has no super-skin and smells like lemmon, because it is just 1 hour old; it harms a human => infected human becomes a little-one of this small, no super-skin and lemmon-smell type;
- but little-one #1 evolves, and after a day it is huge, has kevlar-skin and smells like the average zed, and it wounds a human => infected human becomes a little-one of this 'newly evolved' type.
That could (maybe would) explain why Saul had little trouble with dealing with his little-one at the elementary school, while the blackhawk crew whitnessed a little-one being so stubborn in going down. Also this ever-changing Zed-factor would not rely on ongoing experiments; so it would be comparable with the ever-changing HIV ...
Amendment to this little-one-theory:
This would also raise one specific question: does the process of 'evolving mutation' follow a fixed pattern, or is it kind of out of control? If there is a fixed pattern to it, then the infected human in the first example would change into a little-one with kevlar-skin and stuff over the time as well; but if the latter case is true, then the human in the first example could change into a completely different little-one-type then the poor bastard that is infected in the second example - meaning: one little one produces different types of offspring depending on its state of own evolution, if not even regardless of that state. This could/ would be an explanation why we have different little-ones so far ...
Benefit for Zeds: You cannot create a safe plan to fight these creatures ...
/amendment ends
About the general killing spree-theories on zombies:
I am not so sure if shrappnel-based weapon systems with area effects would take down zeds in huge numbers, but at best only in slightly bigger numbers. Several times we learned about regulars, Ink, little-ones and behemoths taking wounds to their bodies not dying, even not caring about the wounding. In the case of Ink we also know that he was shot in his heart (according to what Burt mentions in #11), and he was not stopped.
Now, my point is: Shrappnel might kill in two cases - either by litteraly exploding the soft target or by critically harming important inner organs. This means that a single shrappnel shot/ explosion won't take down as many Zeds as it would do with humans.
This theory is limited by the one-time situation in which Burt and Michael deployed a claymore mine in front of The Tower and killed a rather huge number of Zeds (no numbers mentioned) with it; but I think that one claymore dishes out a much stronger explosion then explody-things mounted under an assault-rifle, right?
Edit: I had to think of "Yonkers" in 'World War Z' (Max Brooks), where the US-Army had one of its darkest hours ... /edit ends
All the best!
Liam
tl;rd
I understand the refusal to accept on those grounds, however, whatever theory you subscribe to, the Inklings have a number on them...I can accept DNA mutations via some biological release of the planet itself having resulted with NO human interaction (or whatever reason you believe having nothing to do with human input), but a number on the skin necessitates human intervention, IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Robzombie
No, in the The Devils Workshop it was pretty obvious that Ink was grooming (not mutating or genetically altering) zombies, including sharpening of nails and tatooing, thats where the numbers came from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
True, but the fact that that workshop exists says something. Did he manage to round up ALL the Little Ones that came to naturally exist and then tattoo them for his record keeping? Or did he have a hand in their creation. A detail that always raised my eyebrows is the fact that one of the rooms in that workshop had a bloody bed. I have to go back and make sure I'm not making up the fact that I believe it looked crushed. But I do recall the door jam to that room was broken, as though something big had passed through. So I think we can surmise that Ink possibly took a normal sized being into the room, and a Behemoth exit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robzombie
That kind of evidence leads me to believe he is messing around with whatever soup creates these zombies. He's tweaking the recipe or something. So I think his work goes deeper than trimming nails and tattooing.
Ink, formerly known as Bill Roberts was an enforcer for "the Family". He's a paranoid schizophrenic that was charged for murder and locked up at the mental health facilty by that hospital...he's not a scientist.
How many paranoid schizophrenics which are normally busy killing people for a living do you know that that take up bio-chemistry or genetic engineering as a hobby.
I hear ya, and we're each entitled to our own speculation, no matter how sound an argument the prehistoric haze is turning everyone into zombie dinosaurs, particularly pterodactyls, is.....there's more ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robzombie
But I think Ink has to have more influence than merely tattooing/grooming the special ones. There's got to be a bigger reason as to why he's seemingly got control over them, again, IMO. But it IS possible he's just the most intelligent one and it's pack mentality to listen to the alpha I suppose.
I think the "little ones" were originally babies from the hospital nursury. A human baby is going through the stage of its most rapid growth in its lifetime, naturally being at that stage and getting the virus or whatever it is...who knows what you'll get. I bet that the numbers might not even be Inks identifiers but the baby identifiers put on by the nursing staff. I might also guess that these numbers are not permanant and will rub or wash off. I know tags are placed on babies (ours had them) but perhaps some hospitals use non permanent markings in addition as a fail safe identifier.
These numbers are on the arms correct, and a little hard to read? The placement is consistent which tells me that there may be a system behind it and the legability is due to the skin being stretched from growth or even partly worn off.
An enforcer? Did they specify that? I need to go back an listen. I could have sworn that he was just a mass murderer. I'm pretty sure they didn't mention ties to "the family" but I've been wrong plenty of times. I'll have to research this more. But if you are right, then I would readily agree that being both a hit man type and a geneticist seem unlikely. But if he's a doctor type turned crazy, I can easily picture him killing patients through experimentation. Again, I'll have to go back and listen to the TiVo blurb about Bill Roberts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robzombie
I strongly disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robzombie
As a new parent, I have to say that I don't ever recall the hospital tattooing my baby. I recall them putting Baby Lo-Jack on her ankle along with an ID bracelet. I'd certainly hope her first tattoo was her decision and not that of some orderly who may have bad hand writing ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Robzombie
Is it even clear in the KCverse that you need a headshot to kill the zombie? If CJ is confident in letting them bleedout it would seem that they have a working/necessary Cardiovascular system that is vulnerable to ballistic trauma.
I don't know what Hospital you went to but when my daughter was born a few short months ago she got her vaccinations and mandatory neck tattoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
I did say non-permanant.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Understandable. I don't know if the procedures are the same all over the world, but I do know that in the United States, and in California, a plastic bracelet is used, as well as a chart and label on the infant bassinet. The only ink applied to the children might be if the parents want the infants footprint. They also prick the bottom of the foot to check the blood. As far as I know, no ink is applied to the child's arm. Identifiers are bracelets and charts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robzombie
Another thing to consider is that the ink has been on these Inklings for months now. Considering that they have likely been in all sorts of weather and rummaging through grody stuff, those numbers should either be smeared, illegible, or completely gone.
That and the mention of the home made tattoo pen in the Devil's Workshop suggest they are permanent tattoos.
Actually yes you are right. It isn't specified that he's an enforcer. He was declared insane, convicted of multiple homicides, and the "family" was devastated. I think after listening to it, what, 2 years ago that the idea of him being an enforcere just stayed...I'm considering more now that he's also a member of the family...otherwise why would "the family" be so devastated??Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
Mandatory neck tattoo? Wtf ... ?
Although I don't stick with the idea that Bill Roberts / Ink might do some genetic/ bio-chemical/ medical engineering on his zeds, I hav no trouble in thinking of a madman that, also being a psycho, a killer and an insane madman, he might be able to do bio-engineering of whatever kind. It only depends on the time where the button was pushed making him a madman; if he was kind of educated or trained as this kind of engineering-dude before having become an Hannibal-Lecter-clone, he might be able to use his skills form his former life ... And unless zombie-ism does not stop him from using such skills, here you go: a psychic madman-zombie doin' zombie-engineering ... Why not?
Again: I don't of this as being solid, nor even valid for the WA-verse, but in other zombie-stories I could imagine something like this ...
All the best!
Liam
Well yeah and that's what I've been saying all along...they were "inked" by Ink...but it was just with considering now that they might have been newborns at the hospital that the numbers may actually correspond to the bassinets and might really be the explanation for them, IDK....maybe Ink still did it and he numbered them according to the bassinets??Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
You know what, I can kind of see it now... maybe on top of being insane or previous to it he was very intelligent. He went nuts, killed some people and there ya go...perhaps he was into some freaky shit and thats what made him go bonkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamKerrington
I'll relisten soon (if this podcast was an old audio tape...I'd have worn out the Tivo section by now....) for the semantics. I don't know that I have since we really learned about the nature of the families.
I wouldn't doubt this to be the case, though I wonder why would an organized crime family be devastated that one of their people got out of a murder trial by going into a psych ward... seems like that would be something they'd love to have happened. In fact...it's almost like something they'd pay to have happen.
I may still just be stuck in my original headspace for that moment, but I feel like the devastated families would be the victims families. I understand that's what we're supposed to imagine. I'm currently just having a hard time breaking out of it.
Thank you for proving that California is seperate from the United States! I always knew ya'll were just a tad different. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
As for everything else, Ink could of very well been into genetics. Being that he is insane I would go so far as to say he might not even be a doc/former doc. Maybe just someone that used to read A LOT and then dabble with chemicals and things. Why else would he have all those funky looking tattoos? They have to mean something.
You just showed me how what might be obvious to some can be completely missed by others, certainly including me. It actually never occurred to me that from this statment "the family itself was devastated" (note: singular, not families) that it was the family of the victims being referenced here.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
See, I'm glad we talked this out. Although differing in opinions at times, it's helped to challenge and even reconsider my assumptions and see the story perhaps a little clearer.
I'm from TEXAS! :zombiegun:Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguine
Maybe we are over thinking it. Does Ink have to be a geneticist or some sort of scientist? What if he just discovered some weird biological formation created by the Haze that he sticks on someone's face and it craps ooze into the victims mouth that alters their biological make-up. Think Aliens; he sticks a face hugger on you and it pumps you full of Gaia's steroids, turning you into a Behemoth, Inkling, Jumper, Runner... I dunno. It sounds far fetched, but maybe the simple answer is he just mixed zombie blood with shit he found in The Haze and poof: biological benefits.
?
Damn! Texas is ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
Yeah I think this whole how did zombie "x" come in to existence is getting a little crazy. Unless KC wants to say his thoughts on it it is all speculation, just like watching every TV show or what not. I watched an off the wall movie on the SciFi channel last night called Morlocks. It explained where the Morlocks came from but not the other "creatures", and it was supposedly only 68 years in the future. Sometimes you just have to roll with the story and not get to over analytical.
I hear ya, my four kids got a plastic ankle bracelet, no tatoos or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
Aren't your hospitals private, which would mean to me that not all procedures or processes are federally or state mandated and regardless, even a tiny procedure such as putting a number on a babies wrist with non permanant ink or feltpen might be something that the nursing unit at this hospital just does - not that I'm necesarily sticking to this idea, but I think it's plausable.
Not all are private, and remember that the story is set in the United States. What does this mean? Well, baby comes out the shoot, is cleaned, docs do to the baby what docs do, then hand it to the mother. Mother is all happy, then they take baby to the nursery. While in the nursery a nurse takes a black felt tip marker and writes "3" on the arm to signify that this baby goes to bassinette 3. Couple hours later they bring the baby back to the mother and she notices the 3 on the arm and flips out. Husband calls an attorney and they end up sueing the hospital, the nurse, the felt tip pen manufacturer, etc, etc, etc. So basically no hospital in their right mind would write a number on a newborns arm. The US is all about lawsuits and people wanting easy money. It's sad really. But hey, such is our country.
I had some trouble understanding things in this episode.
1) So, the LO was hanging on the helicopter for roughly 4 hours and a half and only after that time he attacked opening the helicopter like a sardines can?
2) I would really appreciate some kind of schema of who was in the Black Hawk and who was in the Chinook. O_o. I really got turned around on that, and on who gets off the BH, and on who of those turns in a LO, and on who was in restrains besides Kimmet's niece and now isn't anymore...
Hi there,
Your second question I won't answer, 'cause then I had to kill myself after having killed you ... *g*Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
About Q1:
Well, this made me think and wonder a lot, too. I came up with three different ideas:
a) In LA the LO grabbed on the chopperand did not care for such a long time;
b) in LA the LO grabbed on the chopper, evolved and mutated for this amount of time in order to be strong enough for wripping the chopper apart; OR
c) the LO did not grab on in LA, but jumped onto the chopper, because it already was about 30mi next to Boulder and it heard the chopper flying above its head ...
All the best!
Liam
Maybe the timing of the initial attack can be sync'd with the time that comms were cut-off. The part where they are reporting to Michael and Puck...althougth this is not during the first sitrep back but some time later. After the attack it might also have taken awhile for it to actually go down. Also, the chinook getting torn apart as it did may have happened on the ground. There were four punctures around the wheel well, which, idk, might have been enough to take out comms and other electrical forcing it to crash land, upon where the creature not knowing how to use door handles ripped into it.
I Had this written down yesterday but threw it out cause I was keeping track for just myself. *digs through desk garbage can* Found it!Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
Ok, lets start on the ground: Fowler, Grigg, and Long - Fowler gets killed heading toward the Chinook, Long goes back for the map and then get squished. This leads us to the Chinook...
On the Chinook: Pilot, Co-Pilot, Navigator (Minimal crew) - Long (strapped down), Grigg (strapped down). I'm thinking that the Navigator got off his station and strapped them down.
The Chinook crashes after the Big Little One opens it up. This leaves the pilot dead on impact, two others (co-pilot and navigator) getting cut down by the mini-gun, Long dead and partially snacked on, and Grigg missing.
The Blackhawk has the crew (pilot, co-pilot, nav), Anthony, Carl, and a few other non-importants. Anthony and Carl kill all with the excpetion of Grigg who is missing.
Hope that helps.
That's sort of what my intiial question was, once people start turning, I get a bit confused as to how many turned, 2 or 3, and if they all came off the BHQuote:
Originally Posted by clem131
Yeah, Blackhawk wasn't from Irwin. Done the math on this over and over ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal Retainer
"1) So, the LO was hanging on the helicopter for roughly 4 hours and a half and only after that time he attacked opening the helicopter like a sardines can?"
Yup.
By kill 'all' I think/hope you mean the non-importants. And thats what I was trying to clarify quite a few posts back. The pilot stays on the chopper the whole time,even asks 'need help?' and they say no, stay there. So how many non-importants were there that got off? I think 3, but it may have been 2 and the 'crawling away' zombie was the first one that turned (Jackie?) who was not down for the count since he was mid-turn to ADLO, and started crawling away, necessitating more shots. Which made it seem like 3 crew were turned then killed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguine
From what my ears are telling me Carl, Anthony, and three others got off the Blackhawk. Lets call one Bob, the other Bobby, and Bob Jr.. So Carl, Anthony, Bob, Bobby, and Bob Jr. get off the Blackhawk. This leaves the Blackhawk crew on the Blackhawk. They track to the tree's when they all run back to the BlackHawk and it sounds like 3 (Bob, Bobby, and Bob Jr) get injured. This leaves the Black Hawk crew, Anthony, and Carl still living with Anthony and Carl in clean-up mode.