Damn straight! I've become a master of decapitation with flying tortillas!Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
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Damn straight! I've become a master of decapitation with flying tortillas!Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
Sniffle-sniffle,.....I LOVE YOU MAN! Now pass me the tissue.Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
No, no señor. Funnier?,...Strike One. Better Shot?,....Strike Two. If Victor had a mini gun,.....What Apocalypse?Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyZombified
Victor didn't screw ANYTHING up,...Michael's just ticked I hit on his girl.
I'm starting to think that Dr. W.I. Roberts isn't actually Ink. He could have been his father and got murdered in his office by Ink for some unknown reason... Hence the police tape. I don't think that we have both walking around as zombies.
"The whole family was devastated." What family? Did Ink kill his own family?
I don't know. A tattooed scientist sounds about as weird IMO, but meh...
my important, science-y pants..i seem to have misplaced them. no? oh well, ill try this noise anyways.
so with this chapter we got yet another clue. yet another piece to the "science of zombie" puzzle.
follistatin
from the wiki
"Follistatin also known as activin-binding protein is a protein that in humans is encoded by the FST gene.[1][2] Follistatin is an autocrine glycoprotein that is expressed in nearly all tissues of higher animals.[2]
Its primary function is the binding and bioneutralization of members of the TGF-β superfamily, with a particular focus on activin, a paracrine hormone.
An earlier name for the same protein was FSH-suppressing protein (FSP). At the time of its initial isolation from follicular fluid, it was found to inhibit the anterior pituitary's secretion of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH)."
now, lets break down this statement.
im not touching the idea of autocrine glycoproteins..thats cellular level b.s. that I don't get paid to look at. we will however jump at the tgf-B superfamily.
from wiki:
"The transforming growth factor beta (TGF-β) superfamily is a large family of structurally related cell regulatory proteins that was named after its first member, TGF-β1, originally described in 1983.[2]
Many proteins have since been described as members of the TGF-β superfamily in a variety of species, including invertebrates as well as vertebrates and categorized into 23 distinct gene types that fall into four major subfamilies:[3][4][5]"
"Transforming growth factor-beta (TGF-beta)[6] is a multifunctional peptide that controls proliferation, differentiation and other functions in many cell types. TGF-beta-1 is a peptide of 112 amino acid residues derived by proteolytic cleavage from the C-terminal of a precursor protein. These proteins interact with a conserved family of cell surface serine/threonine-specific protein kinase receptors, and generate intracellular signals using a conserved family of proteins called SMADs. They play fundamental roles in the regulation of basic biological processes such as growth, development, tissue homeostasis and regulation of the immune system.[3]"
based on that..i followed the thought chain to the next sentence.
"Follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) is a hormone found in humans and other animals. It is synthesized and secreted by gonadotrophs of the anterior pituitary gland.[1] FSH regulates the development, growth, pubertal maturation, and reproductive processes of the body. FSH and luteinizing hormone (LH) act synergistically in reproduction."
and last, but not least
"A major organ of the endocrine system, the anterior pituitary, also called the adenohypophysis, is the glandular, anterior lobe that together with the posterior lobe, the (posterior pituitary) makes up the pituitary gland (hypophysis). The anterior pituitary regulates several physiological processes including stress, growth, reproduction and lactation.
Its regulatory functions are achieved through the secretion of various peptide hormones that act on target glands and organs including the adrenal glands, liver, bone, thyroid, and gonads. The anterior pituitary itself is regulated by the hypothalamus and by negative feedback from these targets.
Disorders of the anterior pituitary are generally classified by the of overproduction or underproduction of pituitary hormones. For example, an overproduction of prolactin can give rise to a pituitary adenoma (a benign tumour) called a prolactinoma. In hypopituitarism, the anterior pituitary underproduces one or more of the hormones; panhypopituitarism is the condition where the gland uniformly malfunctions and underproduces all of the hormones. Proper function of the anterior pituitary and of the organs it regulates can often be ascertained via blood tests that measure hormone levels."
all this is found simply by checking under the links within the main wiki on follistatin. now, lets take it one step further and introduce keratin. I found this one on the effects of follistatin on keratinocyte proliferation...from the same wiki. links under gene ontology
http://amigo.geneontology.org/cgi-bi...erm=GO:0043616
"The multiplication or reproduction of keratinocytes, resulting in the expansion of a cell population. Keratinocytes are epidermal cells which synthesize keratin and undergo a characteristic change as they move upward from the basal layers of the epidermis to the cornified (horny) layer of the skin. "
so from all that gibberish(actually this stuff is starting to make sense, that's the sad part) I make a jump. a leap of faith if you will, to the thyroid.
"The thyroid gland or simply, the thyroid /ˈθaɪərɔɪd/, in vertebrate anatomy, is one of the largest endocrine glands. The thyroid gland is found in the neck, below the thyroid cartilage (which forms the laryngeal prominence, or "Adam's apple"). The thyroid gland controls how quickly the body uses energy, makes proteins, and controls how sensitive the body is to other hormones. It participates in these processes by producing thyroid hormones, the principal ones being triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine which can sometimes be referred to as tetraiodothyronine (T4). These hormones regulate the growth and rate of function of many other systems in the body. T3 and T4 are synthesized from iodine and tyrosine. The thyroid also produces calcitonin, which plays a role in calcium homeostasis.
Hormonal output from the thyroid is regulated by thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) produced by the anterior pituitary, which itself is regulated by thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) produced by the hypothalamus."
so basically the leap of faith im making here is the idea that the hypothalamus and pituitary are the initially affected parts of the body. those effects lead to the thyroid, which in turn leads to changes in the liver and kidneys. (likely kidney failure, as we discussed last chapter part) why failure? I don't really see how kidneys would be relevant for the biters. in fact, that could explain a LOT of things.
*see "pellagra"*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellagra
well, this is probly more than I wanted to ramble about anyways, so im stopping there. ill touch more on the effects of changes to the thyroid and his metabolic partners in crime in the future..we've got two weeks right?
have fun...or else.
todd out
I felt my heart pumping for the full second half of the episode. I think this might be the best episode so far.
Somebody mentioned it already, but if Ink tattoed himself with formulas pertaining to his research, that might mean our heroes will have to catch him alive not to risk damaging his skin.
this is a good point. I deal with chemicals(cleaning agents) on a daily basis. my first thoughts on this were alkaline chlorides. but the primary chemical that would have to mix with that to produce a stinky, yet not mustard gas-y smell/effect would be a VERY low level acid(think 50:1 or something). the chlorine COULD be enough to eat through the tires, along with a bit of disbelief suspension...but most any mix of chlorine and "insert other chemical here" would likely put Michael and co on their asses within seconds....that sort of thing is nothing for the fucking with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin1274
a better question would be why would a pharma. company have vats of that stuff?
Could this be why they go for the neck when attacking? To somehow damage or destroy that gland?Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
not why I went to the thyroid in the first place,but yea...does kinda fit with the theme, doesn't it??Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
As a pharmacist, this episode was like a dream for me :)
Sooo... thinking out loud. initially I thought that we were moving away from Raydon being the source, and more just a place where blood doping was going on to bulk up the zombies- as evidenced by the not-so-little ones. But then what on earth is going on with the crime scene tape and the office? doping and anabolic steroid use is a pretty complicated area- you'd have to know a fair bit about it already to go ahead with it. Could it be something Bill Roberts had a prior knowledge of ( and possibly even a reason for his aggression/ mental health issues which led to his killing spree? Could Dr Roberts have been experimenting with some way of reversing the effects? Who knows, but it is all very intriguing.
Is it just me, or were they totally daft to not raid the place for drugs- we know they are running low on painkillers etc, and there would probably have been a wealth of useful drugs in the warehouse. And yes, even preparation H could have been potentially useful- especially with a pregnant woman around!
I'm drawn to the description of the Raydon Building. Michael goes to a lot of effort to describe its plain whiteness, except for the patches where graffiti has been covered up. What could be going on there? Have there been protesters attacking the place, after finding out about some of the experiments going on there? Or could it have been something to do with Bill Roberts or any potential crime he may have committed?
So much to think about!
Hxxx
Oh and some other thoughtstreams:
why are there so many broken bottles of the products, and why are the labs so messed up. Has there been some sort of altercation between Randy and whoever resides in the labs? (Ink?)
Is the doping/ steroid use merely to bulk up the existing zombies, or some sort of a way to attempt to prolong their life/ energy as they have started dying off? Stanozolol is listed on wiki as being used: "Veterinarians may prescribe the drug to improve muscle growth, red blood cell production, increase bone density and stimulate the appetite of debilitated or weakened animals"
Oh, and the other item is Aranesp- this is darbopoetin, similar to epo. I'm finding myself forgiving We're Alive for the fact that this would normally be kept in a fridge!!
Hxx
Was about to say that this could be that the Zs do this to make a kill and prevent the victim from becoming a zombie, but it seems that this chemical is used be Ink and is not naturally produced by Zombies, so the point is moot.
So far, what I've gotten from all of the science is that the K-18 gives them tough skin and Ink dopes them to make them big and strong. Just following the trail.
Got a chance to listen once yesterday evening. Wow! Blown away by this episode. The music and atmosphere were incredible. The suspense build up was great. I felt like stuff could happen at any moment and was prepared for a "jump scare" thing to happen.
But the way the encounter developed and played out was even better. Way to throw the curve ball, Kc!
Clues, clues, clues....
I can't really add anything to the chemical and biological discussions being had in here other than to say this, at least for me, strengthens my thought that some controlling agent is "improving" on nature's zombie design.
Quick brain dump:
- Dr William I Roberts is not Bill Roberts aka Ink. I'm thinking a father-son link.
- Either Dr Roberts or Bill have been making the special zombies using chemicals (biological or synthetic) to do things like toughen the skin and increase size and strength
- All the specials before the Little Ones were "failed" experiments. So far, the original Little Ones are "progressing nicely"
- Randy and "Zombie Maker" Roberts are in cahoots. Randy, the smart one, was on the courier mission because he could read (which means someone else has mastered writing), follow directions to a location, and figure out how to find specific things with big sciency names.
- Raydon and Ground Zero are not related. Ground Zero has to do with zombie origin. Raydon has to do with special zombies.
I also thing we are getting very close to the death (or living death) of a major named character in the story. I really thought it was gonna be Robbins (please don't do that, Kc!) when he got off the truck to save the piece of paper.
Please keep going on the theories and chemistry classes, y'all. This place is awesome! :D
Biology is really about homeostasis. A big word that means trying to keep things the same. It takes some serious effort to break the equilibrium. For a pop-culture reference what we see at Raydon Labs is someone trying to make a super soldier serum. A cocktail of "steroids" blended just right to turn a toddler into Andre the Giant
Attachment 2766
The "little one" in the middle is Arnold. Flanked by Wilt Chamberlain and Andre.
But why? Is it just science run a muck? What is the threat that needs to be countered by these constructs?
In old school biochemistry we would take a bunch of thyroid, pituitary, or whatever and put it in a blender and try to purify something out and put it back in the body to see what happened. Then we got to recombinant DNA where we could clone out a gene and make a whole bunch of the protein in the lab. But, the subject has to keep coming back for more injections and it is not contagious.
That was my reaction, I posted that back a few pages somewhere, but yea, I think the 'multiple murders' lead to his revocation and him no longer being called doctor. He went more crazy in jail, and continued theorizing his tests, but to remember them, he tattooed himself. So the tattoos came later. I think it lines upQuote:
Originally Posted by Red Shirt
I'm not convinced by this argument- I think the media would be more than happy to jump on a juicy Dr-As-Serial-Killer story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
As a real-life example, look at Andrew Wakefield (he of the fraudulent MMR research). He's been entirely discredited, is no longer a Dr after being struck off due to multiple counts of abuse of learning disabled children, yet the press still insist on referring to him as "Dr".
Likewise with Harold Shipman. I would see the media jumping on the Dr thing with glee and reporting on it constantly.
Imagine if the tattoos are really the formulas to his experiments?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
Perhaps Raydon may have been trying to find a cure or antidote for this but instead stumbled on things that make it worse. I believe the chemicals that mixed may have been what caused the gas haze at ground zero houses were burned down when Saul and Victor went there.
Interesting thought just occurred to me, what if ink is the one being controlled and is patent zero. And the one controlling ink is in the center of the haze where it is livable, and the haze is just a moat of un breathable gas ment to keep people and "them" out.
Could the tattooing have been done at the mental hospital where the tattoo gun was found?
I originally just thought that was used to tattoo the Little Ones or whomever became the Little Ones, but maybe that's where Ink got his tattoos. When they look at that slip of paper doesn't Michael say "some of these symbols look familiar"? Maybe he remembered them from TOWTM.
maybe TOWTM Tat self then the little ones with same niddle.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan531
This episode was awesome! Maybe this doctor was treating ink in that mental hospital, because they did say they where transporting him to a hospital. maybe this dodctor in the lab trated ink and ink did something to him thats why there is police tape all over.
great episode questions questions questions. The chemistry is gnarkey. I am looking forward to the next episode. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexcadtek
Look at the doctor's name and Ink's real name... Not saying they're not two different persons, I kinda believe that myself, but they might as well be one and the same guy... Just sayin'.
Now 2 week wait.
Bet me to the punch 7oddisdead to post in this forum
(stupid exams study)
But i came to similar conclusions about how follastatin is relevant to the story in my post here
But i also came to another idea about follastatin. It says that many solid tumours have Elevated FSH receptor levels and since follistatin suppresses FSH production it leads me to the conclusion (now i don't actually know anything about biochemistry) but those points of data lead me to to speculation that peraps this is what caused all the massive amounts of tumours in the Behemoths.
This leads to the scenario that since it's speculated that Behemoths are early stages possibly failed ones in the Little One development cycle and potentially who ever made them was still testing out the proper usage of follastatin and perhaps overdosed the behemoths which lead to the tumours
New Here but this episode made me make an account and post something. I don't think anyone has said this yet so I will add this to the conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
As far as Raydon Labs being nowhere near ground zero. People do generally commute to work. It could very well be that Dr. Roberts was conducting experiments at his home.
It could also stand to reason that he created something(the virus) and also created a cure(knowing that he may one day be caught).
What if He has the cure inside him which is why the zombies don't attack him and why he didn't change???
Maybe the explosion at Ground Zero was a timed bomb that he set up knowing that he would be caught, once the bomb goes off everyone but him would turn into zombies and he would be free no matter where he was. Even if he was in jail or a straight jacket he can control the zombies so he would be able to get free.
Also, going with the Bill Roberts and Dr. Roberts are 2 different people theory...... Maybe Bill was smarter than his father but just put his talents to a bad use........ It could very well be that the Day Bill's insanity plea was accepted he told his father to do one last thing for him........ Go home and open this box or something........ The Father does this and BOOM!!! GROUND ZERO.
Anyways Great episode and I had to get in on the conversation, so I just jumped straight into the deep end!
This is kind of random, but as I watched a show about dinosaurs with my kids a thought occurred to me. With respect to Ground Zero, the cracks in the ground, and Z-day, I have a question. Where are the La Brea Tar Pits in relation to the other locations in the story? Could something nasty be bubbling up there?
not as random as you might think. I believe its been brought up before, and off the top of my head I don't recall the location...but it does fit in the story iirc.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDung
https://plus.google.com/102700306169...ut?gl=us&hl=enQuote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDung
North of Inglewood, roughly 9 miles away.
Fracking zombie pterodactyls!
AWESOME EPISODE! I love that we finally sort of know that Ink is Bill Roberts/Pinstripe Suit. I was thinking we would not get the identity of the I. in William I. Roberts. And the I. would be a nod to the fans. (I. standing for Ink.) Great episode. I think Kelly is going to know something about Mr. Roberts. And the reasoning for the police tape in his office is because he was under investigation for something involving the Zeds. Maybe the people that he 'killed' (mentioned in Chapter 2 part 3 I believe) were actually the first test subjects or first official Zeds.
Thanks, KC. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
Has there been much mention of the Newport-Inglewood fault line? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport-Inglewood_Fault
Skittles!!!! Dr Jeckl/Mr Hyde Skittles!!!! It could happen!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pmchawk
My point is that they usually take down the tape once the investigation is over. It's up to protect the scene from contamination. Since trials generally take awhile and he was sentenced that implied to me that the investigation was way, way over. They don't just use it when there's been a murder, so this tape could represent a later break in.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamPaul
I don't remember them crossing tape to get into the office so whatever happened in the office happened after the rampant destruction there. So, maybe, he came back to the office after his escape or someone else broke in to get him what he needed.
It's a mystery--"Zombies He Wrote"
It was the butler, in the library, with the lead pipe.
It was the zombie, in the alley, with the nomz.
This is what I was thinking too. Tape couldn't be from the trial because that would have long been over and done with by that time. The tape must have been from something that happened after or completely separate from the murders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eviebae
:tinfoil::tinfoil:I think whatever happened at ground zero must either be radioactive, or something coming from underground like you mentioned from the fault line or the Brea tar pits or the like. There has been a lot of talk about pipes or cisterns bursting etc, but we are almost a year later. Any gases that would have leaked would have long since run out and the high winds that can sometimes kick up there would have blown away those gases a long time ago so there wouldn't have been anything left there to choke on.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyDung
I think I am leaning more to something like underground natural gases that have been reacting with natural chemicals in the body (maybe from vaccines like was mentioned on We're Not Dead, or maybe from just natural chemical).
The other reason I don't think it could have been from a pipe bursting or something is there were changes going on around the world, it would be a lot less feasible for them to burst all over the world unless there was a planned attack. If it was a planned attack, who were the attackers and wouldn't they have set up a safe haven where they might be the only survivors? If that were the case I think it is too late in the store line to introduce them now.
I am going with earthquake or the earth crust cracking for some reason etc. that releases some deep down gases that cause a chemical reaction in people all over the world causing the change :tinfoil:
I think the vials and chemicals at Raydon aren't the 'cause' for anything to do with the Zombies. I think that Dr. Roberts was working on something before the outbreak and that Ink knew about it. Perhaps he was a test subject of sorts or maybe its just something he read about in prison, who knows. Perhaps Ink was able to pull off a prison break while being transported from court to the Mental Hospital and went to Raydon, broke into the office and while making his escape from Raydon with notes or chemicals or whatever it was he was looking for he was turned in the street by the outbreak? Maybe he isn't a part of the source of the outbreak? Maybe he was a victim like all the others? Maybe something in his body kept him from 'fully turning' the same way Tanya and Saul haven't 'fully turned'? :tinfoil:
Just some crazy out loud thoughts, not sure I even buy that scenario, but worth considering
I like that idea because now we have a ticking clock due S & T's potentially slow changing and I don't want either one of them to be zombies. There's such a mix of factors. Tanya was bitten, but Saul wasn't--the bullet scenario is doubtful. Plus Lizzie has interacted with Saul's *ahem* bodily fluids and not changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit9014