Chapter 32 part 2: Captive Hearts

I have no doubt that eventually Scratch will get hers (and don't get me wrong, even though Burt is one of my top faves, so is she...despite the fact that she cut his finger off...).

What I love about Scratch (and I guess I should say more appropriately KC's writing and Jenna's acting) is that rage that's barely concealed in her voice, her whole demeanor reminds me of "a bow string pulled taut, about to snap" (put into quotations, b/c I'm pretty sure that this description has been used before in literature, and I can't remember who or what).

My Speculation:
I think KC is building up her death, because she's so vital to the story. It will be a auditory feast for the ears and a delight for the sick twisted imaginations of we listeners...it will be this way to honor her character and to make sure she pays for her myriad sins committed during this adventure.

In other words...epic.

I hope. (End of Speculation)

I don't like when they kill of good guys...but villians deaths are always satisfying, even if you don't want them to die. The bitter tears almost bewilder you..."Why am I crying? I hated that character!"

What really turned the tide for me is her revelation to Liz, followed by that horrific scene with Burt. The entire mood of the scene shifted from "two girlfriends talking baby-talk" to "incestual rape followed by abortion that went wrong followed by revenge that ended up scarring me for life" to "She's taking a real beating, I can still read her name on this piece, SLICE! off goes trigger finger, later Burt."

I was very confused. Conflicted about how I should feel about this woman. As a woman myself, I cannot honestly say that I blame her for what she did to her cousin...and I feel bad that it was that incident that led her to being scarred herself...and to some degree I admire her brutality because something that shouldn't have been broken inside her was and led her to become "Scratch." I want to know what she was like before that incident...I wonder if she was just a normal teenage girl, maybe in with the wrong crowd but still hadn't done anything truly terrible...? Or was she always a pyscho with a hunger for flaying flesh and laughing at the sight of blood? Was any of this nature vs. nurture? And I almost forgot about her brother...what role did he play in that incident, if any? What's their deal? He was the only other person she seemed to care about besides herself, so obviously he was important to her...maybe he was the only one who understood her?

She's so complex...what I love most about villians. Some are just straight up evil, but others have become twisted through time. I want to know more about her...but that doesn't change the fact that since we've known Scratch, all she's done is evil with Lizzie (and getting vengeance for John) being the exception.

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Originally Posted by zombeh-kitteh

I want to know what she was like before that incident...I wonder if she was just a normal teenage girl, maybe in with the wrong crowd but still hadn't done anything truly terrible...? Or was she always a pyscho with a hunger for flaying flesh and laughing at the sight of blood? Was any of this nature vs. nurture? And I almost forgot about her brother...what role did he play in that incident, if any? What's their deal? He was the only other person she seemed to care about besides herself, so obviously he was important to her...maybe he was the only one who understood her?

She's so complex...what I love most about villians. Some are just straight up evil, but others have become twisted through time. I want to know more about her...but that doesn't change the fact that since we've known Scratch, all she's done is evil with Lizzie (and getting vengeance for John) being the exception.

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Yeah, her past remains a mystery as much as her personality. And that makes it very interesting to think about her.
And yes: she is complex. And way too much of a personality in order to be killed or simply to die in #32-3.

All the best!
Liam the short

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

Yeah, her past remains a mystery as much as her personality. And that makes it very interesting to think about her.
And yes: she is complex. And way too much of a personality in order to be killed or simply to die in #32-3.

All the best!
Liam the short

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Yes, I completely agree...if and when she meets her demise, it certainly won't be anytime soon. I can see her being so tenacious that she outlasts most of the remaining cast.

She's one of the best parts of the show... :)

Cheers! ^_^

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Originally Posted by zombeh-kitteh

I have no doubt that eventually Scratch will get hers (and don't get me wrong, even though Burt is one of my top faves, so is she...despite the fact that she cut his finger off...).

What I love about Scratch (and I guess I should say more appropriately KC's writing and Jenna's acting) is that rage that's barely concealed in her voice, her whole demeanor reminds me of "a bow string pulled taut, about to snap" (put into quotations, b/c I'm pretty sure that this description has been used before in literature, and I can't remember who or what).

My Speculation:
I think KC is building up her death, because she's so vital to the story. It will be a auditory feast for the ears and a delight for the sick twisted imaginations of we listeners...it will be this way to honor her character and to make sure she pays for her myriad sins committed during this adventure.

In other words...epic.

I hope. (End of Speculation)

I don't like when they kill of good guys...but villians deaths are always satisfying, even if you don't want them to die. The bitter tears almost bewilder you..."Why am I crying? I hated that character!"

What really turned the tide for me is her revelation to Liz, followed by that horrific scene with Burt. The entire mood of the scene shifted from "two girlfriends talking baby-talk" to "incestual rape followed by abortion that went wrong followed by revenge that ended up scarring me for life" to "She's taking a real beating, I can still read her name on this piece, SLICE! off goes trigger finger, later Burt."

I was very confused. Conflicted about how I should feel about this woman. As a woman myself, I cannot honestly say that I blame her for what she did to her cousin...and I feel bad that it was that incident that led her to being scarred herself...and to some degree I admire her brutality because something that shouldn't have been broken inside her was and led her to become "Scratch." I want to know what she was like before that incident...I wonder if she was just a normal teenage girl, maybe in with the wrong crowd but still hadn't done anything truly terrible...? Or was she always a pyscho with a hunger for flaying flesh and laughing at the sight of blood? Was any of this nature vs. nurture? And I almost forgot about her brother...what role did he play in that incident, if any? What's their deal? He was the only other person she seemed to care about besides herself, so obviously he was important to her...maybe he was the only one who understood her?

She's so complex...what I love most about villians. Some are just straight up evil, but others have become twisted through time. I want to know more about her...but that doesn't change the fact that since we've known Scratch, all she's done is evil with Lizzie (and getting vengeance for John) being the exception.

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You had me at hello. :love:

It's going to be a big jaw dropper when Scratch ends up being the one reading the journals at the very end of the story. She'll have slayed everyone in her path; opening the flood gates on Boulder, Colorado so the starving zombies could have a feast. She'll have killed Pinstripes, simply because he was in her way and she got tired of his shit.

The best part, she'll be reading the journals to her unborn baby, rubbing her baby bump with teary eyes. We'll never know who the father was.

Feck! Is it Monday yet?! I just want to know the reason for the assembly!

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

She'll have killed Pinstripes, simply because he was in her way and she got tired of his shit.

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Hahaha! That would be awesome. "Clash of Titans" would get a totally new sense ... And especially the reason for killing pinstripes is so cool: "because he was in her way" ... Hahaha ... !

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

It's going to be a big jaw dropper when Scratch ends up being the one reading the journals at the very end of the story. She'll have slayed everyone in her path; opening the flood gates on Boulder, Colorado so the starving zombies could have a feast. She'll have killed Pinstripes, simply because he was in her way and she got tired of his shit.

The best part, she'll be reading the journals to her unborn baby, rubbing her baby bump with teary eyes. We'll never know who the father was.

Feck! Is it Monday yet?! I just want to know the reason for the assembly!

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Nope, it will be Skittles, the baby daddy and the new leader of the Zombies Hordes.

Damn brilliant prediction

^ this

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

Damn brilliant prediction

^ this

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Wouldn't this cause a move to Dunbar: better security, more weapons and food produce. If that happen I predict Pete won't make it, since he the only character that currently the only red shirt in party.

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

I was thinking that because Tardust is the one that is calling for the head count that perhaps we can expect bad news for Bricks, Lizzy, Burt, or Durai, IF this roll call even pertains to that situation brewing behind the scenes. Tardust was in the room when Scratch killed Angel, so if this roll call has anything to do with Bricks taking the tape to Durai, then I think the outcome will be in Scratch's favor.

But, I dunno. I'm thinking the roll call is just to get an idea of how many people they have so they can prepare for some kind of new objective. Maybe Burt cracked and they want to send a scouting party to Ft. Irwin? Maybe they are going to publicly execute Burt, or Durai, or Bricks?

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Has anyone given thought to the posibility that Bixby is not the only one who witnessed Victor climb into the tanker? Perhaps someone has let word out that they have a stowaway and the reason for the headcount is to execute Gatekeeper and or Bixby.

I imagine if things really were better with Gatekeeper for the colonists, than executing him would be a big blow to the moral of the colonists who may have been holding out hope that he would somehow save them from the Mallers. So perhaps they know about Victor and are going to make a public thing about it, resulting in Gatekeepers punishment.

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Originally Posted by Bullethead

Has anyone given thought to the posibility that Bixby is not the only one who witnessed Victor climb into the tanker? Perhaps someone has let word out that they have a stowaway and the reason for the headcount is to execute Gatekeeper and or Bixby.

I imagine if things really were better with Gatekeeper for the colonists, than executing him would be a big blow to the moral of the colonists who may have been holding out hope that he would somehow save them from the Mallers. So perhaps they know about Victor and are going to make a public thing about it, resulting in Gatekeepers punishment.

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It could also be the guard that left his post early. This can be use to make an example to the rest of the colony.

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Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper

Wouldn't this cause a move to Dunbar: better security, more weapons and food produce. If that happen I predict Pete won't make it, since he the only character that currently the only red shirt in party.

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Maybe. In order for it to work, they have to spill the beans that Michael and the gang are at Ft. Irwin and that they can be contacted via SAT phone. Not sure if Glen is the only one that can fix it or if Tardust is in the know regarding communications. But yeah, I can totally see Pete biting the dust. Dunbar apartments might be safe though. Glen and Pete don't even know where it is since they were blindfolded. So, maybe CJ escapes being captured and is able to help Michael plan an assault/rescue operation on the colony, using Dunbar as a base of operations? It's a rad idea that Osiris put forth and now I just took it and ran with it! I need to put my imagination to rest now.

I don't think the Roll Call has anything to do with Victor showing up. It's too convenient and KC has shown more subtlety when it comes to story telling. I'm not a fan of the "I saw you sneak in even though my super powers of observation weren't shown in narrative" plot device and hopefully the writing doesn't use this bit of chicanery twice in the same story. To me it's akin to the "teleporting monster" powers of Jason in Friday the 13th. Saying that...Gatekeeper let's on that roll call ain't good so that means in the past, roll call has been bad (see how I did that). Durai seems to be a measured, thoughtful crime boss, like Vito Corleone, so I can't see a public execution happening under his sanction. Scratch is a much less balanced and less respectful Sonny. She has actively sought to undermine Durai throughout the series. I'm throwing my wager in that Durai, after a confrontation with Scratch, is dead. She's going to publicly lay the blame on Bricks and execute him for "treason." Then we get to watch as Scratch's grip on reality & the colony slowly deteriorates. With Eileen Wournos now in charge of things, it'll get really fun!

P.S. I reserve the right to deny I wrote any of this :)

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Originally Posted by Bullethead

Has anyone given thought to the posibility that Bixby is not the only one who witnessed Victor climb into the tanker? Perhaps someone has let word out that they have a stowaway and the reason for the headcount is to execute Gatekeeper and or Bixby.

I imagine if things really were better with Gatekeeper for the colonists, than executing him would be a big blow to the moral of the colonists who may have been holding out hope that he would somehow save them from the Mallers. So perhaps they know about Victor and are going to make a public thing about it, resulting in Gatekeepers punishment.

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When Bixby said he "saw" Victor get in, I thought perhaps he had seen the mirror flash that was the signal to Victor, realizing that someone was trying to set something up and then just played along to see what would happen; or maybe saw his reflection in the water or something as he was climbing into the hatch or out of his peripheral vision...

But you raise a good point.

Imho its possible but very unlikely that someone else saw Victor. C'mon, they watched the colony, they knew the only person around would be the driver, it would be damnable luck if a maller was just passing by and saw everything.

What I don't ignore is the fact that Gatekeeper and Bixby have a history of lousy secret management skills. Maybe someone overheard them called for arms, maybe Durai has a Pegs of his own to tell on that shaky plan... Only Mr Whiskers knows...

I'm thinking they're doing roll call for one of two (possibly related) reasons.

1. Pete, Roman, and Glenn snuck out of the colony. Maybe the Mallers think there are missing people and they want to figure out who. As has been pointed out previously, Tardust had a list of slaves when he found Lizzy.
2. Someone found the blood bath left over from CJ and Saul going Kill Bill on the zombies outside the garage with the '67 Shelby in it. They said they were going to put a tarp on it, but a big tarp draped over something resembling bodies directly outside of a garage door? I think that would spark some curiousity.

My guess is this doesn't have anything to do with Durai, Scratch, or Angel - it's simply slave management protocol (or the Mallers making sure there aren't people outside their walls plotting a hostile takeover). I do believe this will be a problem because Saul is already in position, so something big is going to go down! Can't wait!!

This is the first episode of the last 6 or so that I haven't been hoping we learn about the happenings of Fort Irwin. The only thing I care about right now is seeing the attack plays out. This, of course, means we're going back to Irwin.

I have to say I have a hard time believing Gatekeeper's reformation. He said he was sorry for killing Marcus, but as Advenureless_Hero pointed out, he did more than just kill him:

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

I recall him saying that he'd enjoy making it look like Marcus had been attacked by biters. It's one thing to plan a coup to overthrow a dictator, but it's another thing to enjoy mutilating their corpse

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Let's also remember, that the Gatekeeper was staging the coup for his own ambitious purposes. Marcus stood between him and power and that's why he was eliminated. The Gatekeeper had no problem with how the Colony was being run, except that he wanted to be the one running it. He had no plans to reform their policies or ensure fair treatment of the slave-like workers. In fact his closest ally freely tazed those same workers.

He then had to be reminded that he killed Sean, before apologizing. Sean was definitely not a dictator, but actually lived among the residents and improved their quality of life. Sean's crime: he took a postition that the Gatekeeper thought should be his.

He didn't apologize about planning to kill Michael once he was through with Marcus. And why? Because Michael stepped on his toes and got in the way of his rise to power. Sure he hit Bixby with a shovel, but that was in defense of someone being tazed.

I think Victor should have kept reminding him of things he should be apologizing for.

"Oh, you did me a favor in telling the Colony that I was dead so they wouldn't keep looking for me? Wasn't that only after you failed to have them actually kill me?"

Victor said the Gatekeeper had some seriously sick stuff going on upstairs (in his head). Remember that dad who showed up with his kids? He had them shot, along with the recon team that brought them in.

Now that he has met his match with Scratch, my opinion of him has not changed. In short I agree with Tales from Valhalla:

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Originally Posted by Tales from Valhalla

Just because he has his tail between his legs doesn't mean he's a changed man. He had power, he was happy, people were not killed... Until this point I've seen nothing but Gatekeeper acting like a psycho nutfreak.

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And I would think Victor (of all people) would be wary of this as well.

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Originally Posted by Zombiphobe

I have to say I have a hard time believing Gatekeeper's reformation. He said he was sorry for killing Marcus, but as Advenureless_Hero pointed out, he did more than just kill him:

Let's also remember, that the Gatekeeper was staging the coup for his own ambitious purposes. Marcus stood between him and power and that's why he was eliminated. The Gatekeeper had no problem with how the Colony was being run, except that he wanted to be the one running it. He had no plans to reform their policies or ensure fair treatment of the slave-like workers. In fact his closest ally freely tazed those same workers.

He then had to be reminded that he killed Sean, before apologizing. Sean was definitely not a dictator, but actually lived among the residents and improved their quality of life. Sean's crime: he took a postition that the Gatekeeper thought should be his.

He didn't apologize about planning to kill Michael once he was through with Marcus. And why? Because Michael stepped on his toes and got in the way of his rise to power. Sure he hit Bixby with a shovel, but that was in defense of someone being tazed.

I think Victor should have kept reminding him of things he should be apologizing for.

"Oh, you did me a favor in telling the Colony that I was dead so they wouldn't keep looking for me? Wasn't that only after you failed to have them actually kill me?"

Victor said the Gatekeeper had some seriously sick stuff going on upstairs (in his head). Remember that dad who showed up with his kids? He had them shot, along with the recon team that brought them in.

Now that he has met his match with Scratch, my opinion of him has not changed. In short I agree with Tales from Valhalla:

And I would think Victor (of all people) would be wary of this as well.

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Hell yes. Although Pete and Glen say things got a little better when Gatekeeper took over, I can't look passed those effed up things he did. Gatekeeper seems like the type that looks at things in black and white; if you are injured or can't be of any help to the group, you are worthless, a liability, and a drain of supplies.

The dude did have twisted stuff going on in his head, and just because Scratch cut his eye, he says, "I'd never do what these people have done," I don't think we can just take his word for it. I'm not sure how long Gatekeeper was in charge, but I don't think he is a suitable leader. For the time being he might make a good ally because they share a common enemy, the Mallers, but as soon as the Mallers are out of the picture, I seriously think someone should turn a gun on Gatekeeper and Bixby, and any of his followers.

A threat is still a threat no matter what common enemy you have. I'm reminded of this panel from the Walking Dead comic (Vol. 4, issues 19-24):

SPOILER 

Attachment 2118

I'm just waiting for CJ to learn that this ally they are working with is actually the one who orchestrated Sean's death. She won't be happy.

This would be a really interesting time in the story development for Michael and the Fort Irwin crew to reappear. Michael knows about the existence of the colony and has intel on its layout personnel etc. I feel as if Kimmet would want to corral any survivors and put them to work either in boulder or at Irwin. An assault on the colony at the same time Victor and company are trying to instigate a coup could be really interesting

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poor CJ, Saul is a pimp.

I can't recall but I think it was this chapter, and I do not recall anyone making a big deal about it.

Perhaps this was known but it seemed rare to me. Did anyone else hear that the zombies bleed out? I believe this was the chapter where they cracked the garage door open just slightly and CJ used her katana to take off the ankles of the biters.
After which I heard her say something along the lines of "see they'll bleed out"

Yeah I noticed and listened to just that part a couple times to make sure I heard right. Makes sense though...blood is the bodies lube and if there is none then at least its incapacitated (and indeed maybe die)....thats why I do not think that the zombies are dead per se...not like old school reanimated corpses (yet not saying that they can not be), but infected humans.

glad im not the only one. It raises another question to me than though.

How can they survive gunshots? would they not bleed out via those also? Sure not immediately but at a later time perhaps?

My only guess would be Gravity. They probably do not have a beating heart, thus blood is not pumping and gun shots would not cause a bleed out. However if it were a lower placed wound, gravity would cause the remaining blood to flow down and out of it.

Gun shots only bleed out for a little while and will stop bleeding. Of course this also depends on where your hit, but most wounds, gunshots, stabs etc only bleed out momentarily while the blood begins to clot and the surrounding flesh closes around the wound and there is no constant pumping blood supply. The body also shuts down blood delivery to wounds by narrowing capillaries and veins.

bleed out? That remind me of a question I had. It was about the zombie that CJ mention "let it bleed it out". I always throught blood ,like gas/oil in a car, it keep the body moving and flowing and without you won't be able to move without pain. Why was this an important fact?

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Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper

bleed out? That remind me of a question I had. It was about the zombie that CJ mention "let it bleed it out". I always throught blood ,like gas/oil in a car, it keep the body moving and flowing and without you won't be able to move without pain. Why was this an important fact?

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Maybe because they aren't undead, just transformed.

and to let us know that its not just destruction of the brain that kills them, as CJ had already figured out. Without blood they are N.F.G..

We know that zombies are harder to stop with gunshots than normal humans, but that headshots will drop them immediately. I suspect that the issue has less to do with the zombies being undead, and more to do with their not reacting to pain or shock. They remind me of the Moro tribesmen during the Philippine Insurrection and the Viking Berserkers. Both groups were famously able to psych themselves into a mental state where they could shrug off horrible injuries and continue to attack, right up to the point where they dropped dead from blood loss.

Hi there,

maybe the blood-pressure is pretty low - low enough that the blood keeps circling for the basic and minimum nutrition-distribution - if there is any pulse after all.
Getting shot into the chest or the arms has little affect after all - especially with a low blood-pressure or a low pulse. But if you are wounded at the feet - which I understood was the case in this episode, when CJ cut into the Zeds -, all the blood in the higher parts of the body simply create "pressure" on this low-end wounding, which is why they bleed out.

And yes: I realized it as well and have thought about it a bit; but I have not concluded anything yet - which applies to this posting. It's just some thoughts to throw in ...

All the best!
Liam

Just a thought... Many police departments switched from a 9mm duty weapon to a .45 calibre due to people hopped up on drugs. Im not saying the zombies in the story are crack addicts, but if a normal human can amp up on crack and meth and get shot multiple times and still function for quite a while due to the drugs keeping everything going, why can't the zombies be drugged up and able to take round after round to the chest? Of course a head shot stops ya cold, as would hitting an artery. It would be interesting with CJ's "bleed out" revelation if they could find a way to test it more. For example by cutting the femoral artery, or the carotid artery, or by a chest shot to the heart. Would definetly save on bullets in the future.