Chapter 22- "Our Doubts Are Traitors" part 2

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Originally Posted by Ryan

It was Burt who brought up picking someone trusted for the firetruck mission. When he second-guessed Angel picking Riley Angel reiterated that he trusted Riley, not at all surprising given what happened at the Arena.

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Yeah, I'm not saying anything against that. I'm just saying that it's funny how trust is brought up like one scene after Michael had embedded in his mind that Bill was the rat.

Had a listen last night, and something struck me as strange. Tanya mentions that at the colony they weren't allowed to do any kind of research into the zombies and that the sweat/scent thing was new to her. But didn't Victor smash some (wine?) bottles when Michael, pegs and Kelly first met him and they were running from Zombies coming their way. Also, he's wearing tons of cologne. He obviously knows about the scent thing, so why doesn't Tanya?

Could that be something he figured out on his own. And just didn't share with anyone at the colony? He said he wasn't loyal to either side....

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Originally Posted by Jeebogs

Had a listen last night, and something struck me as strange. Tanya mentions that at the colony they weren't allowed to do any kind of research into the zombies and that the sweat/scent thing was new to her. But didn't Victor smash some (wine?) bottles when Michael, pegs and Kelly first met him and they were running from Zombies coming their way. Also, he's wearing tons of cologne. He obviously knows about the scent thing, so why doesn't Tanya?

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The colony didn't seem big on information sharing, or mixing with other groups. Even in the bar the groups that went 'outside' were all separate. There was no central intelligence base working towards the better good, instead factions each working to better themselves/survive

First of all - really, really like the episode this week. Think this chapter could be one of the best yet (so far, anyway).

Going to read through all of the posts in this thread and maybe listen to the episode one more time before posting some ideas and theories...

To be revealed in pat 3...Hope had a stuffed nose. DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNNN

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

On another tangent, what do the helicopter/military experts have to say about this plan for repairing the Jolly Green Giant?

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I am not an expert, but it appears to be a hydrolic line. I do not think they have anything like a simple fix for garden hoses. I believe that the helicopter is a major plot element so I bet it gets fixed.

So, repair the line
BE SURE TO BLEED it of air. Air in hydrolics is bad. Hydrolics works because you cannot compress a water. But, we can compress air. So any air bubble would sap the strength of the power transfer

The helicopter must be under some sort of structure. But, Hydrolic fluid is Hydrolic which is Hydro which is water. So, any dye they put in the fluid will wash away with the rain. Not an expert, just guessing.

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

The colony didn't seem big on information sharing, or mixing with other groups. Even in the bar the groups that went 'outside' were all separate. There was no central intelligence base working towards the better good, instead factions each working to better themselves/survive

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Good point, but the bottles were already there, ready to use, and someone other than Victor will have known, surely?

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Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche

I am not an expert, but it appears to be a hydrolic line. I do not think they have anything like a simple fix for garden hoses. I believe that the helicopter is a major plot element so I bet it gets fixed.

So, repair the line
BE SURE TO BLEED it of air. Air in hydrolics is bad. Hydrolics works because you cannot compress a water. But, we can compress air. So any air bubble would sap the strength of the power transfer

The helicopter must be under some sort of structure. But, Hydrolic fluid is Hydrolic which is Hydro which is water. So, any dye they put in the fluid will wash away with the rain. Not an expert, just guessing.

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Its hydraulic, which is just fluid power (hydraulic oil). Basically a pump forces the oil through the line which passes through gears at some point causing a shaft to turn (hydraulic motor). They'll need to replace the hose, or patch it though hydraulic systems run at a very high pressure using braided hose that, at least here at work, we never patch, just replace. Then refill the reservoir to eliminate the system sucking air and creating foam in the oil.

Oh awesome episode. Thanks Kc, Shane, & Crew! This sh*t's getting deep! AND... Hope was NOT harmed. IT WAS THE RADIO! WOOT! Check it! :)
http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showt...5911#post15911

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Originally Posted by Jeebogs

Had a listen last night, and something struck me as strange. Tanya mentions that at the colony they weren't allowed to do any kind of research into the zombies and that the sweat/scent thing was new to her. But didn't Victor smash some (wine?) bottles when Michael, pegs and Kelly first met him and they were running from Zombies coming their way. Also, he's wearing tons of cologne. He obviously knows about the scent thing, so why doesn't Tanya?

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Not sure if anyone answered this yet, but Cologne and Sweat have two different purposes. cologne is used to throw them off the scent while the Sweat draws them in.

Oh yeah, and about Pegs being the second Pilot...
BAM!
http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showt...ll=1#post12035
Rock Daddy's en fuego! ;)

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Yeah, that's true, but the problem is I'm not up to speed on my Golden Age DC comics, so I had to look up who Jay Garrick was. That made me enjoy the joke less because I had to hunt for the answer :p

Now had I known who Jay Garrick was right off the bat? Yeah, you're right. That probably would have been the line of the episode for me.

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LOL! Even I didn't catch that one and I'm a huge Comic Nerd. It wasn't until you said Golden Age DC did my "Oh Damn!" light go on.

Great episode. I was wrong when I thought Michael would flip on Angel. Blindly rushing to an alarm is still a great way to end up worm food though.
My only confused moment is that no one seemed to know about the alarm to the Armory other than the "Rat."
Everyone kept saying "What's that?" Maybe i'm reading into it too much

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Originally Posted by Ra1th

Yeah why choose Jay garrick? that's like the flash no one's ever heard of. Why not Barry allen or the wally west or someone?

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Because it's the KCverse (which is kinda like Bizzaro world) and mentioning those two names would have been way too easy!

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

My only confused moment is that no one seemed to know about the alarm to the Armory other than the "Rat."
Everyone kept saying "What's that?" Maybe i'm reading into it too much

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You make an excellent point that I hadn't thought of. But consider, the people who were saying "what's that" were all new to the tower. It's not surprising that Hope, Pippin, and Saul's mother (who's name escapes me) wouldn't know about it. With so much happening in the tower since they arrived, no one has probably thought it necesarry to explain all the functions of the tower. And also, how often have they actually had the alarms go off? Not enough that everyone is going to recognize it right away.

Cool, thanks Arkum.

Face Palm over spelling error of latin root word...

Okay. A couple of things about the shooter.

For me, Riley is still prime suspect. The whole smell thing suggests it's not her, but bear in mind that Pippen stank when he first came, and from what I can gather hasn't been allowed to wash since. Is it not reasonable to assume that his smell masked that of Riley? Also, Michael says that Hope "wanted to scream but was barely able to breath". If she can barely breath, how could she smell? Finally, her over-reaction to seeing Pippen dead sounds fake (considering she supposedly doesn't know him and has seen plenty of other people killed. Like someone else said, she didn't even moan that much when she had to hide in a pile of bodies), after which she is fine to sit in the guard room while he's still there. Very strange behaviour...

My other theory was Steven, and while I'm becoming less and less sure of this possibility (it seems more than a little bit obvious), it would be a cool plot point if he ended up saving everyone moments before (or indeed after) being found out as the shooter/rat. This is PURE speculation as to future events, but the situation the rest f the tower would be put in would be awesome to listen to. This guy has just saved your ass, but you know he betrayed you in the past, what do you do?

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Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche

Cool, thanks Arkum.

Face Palm over spelling error of latin root word...

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No worries, glad an engineering degree is paying off. lol

I'm still saying its Riley as well clarkie

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

Because it's the KCverse (which is kinda like Bizzaro world) and mentioning those two names would have been way too easy!

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Yeah, I like how Kc slipped that in. Like, he wanted even the majority of the nerds here to be like, "Wait... Who?" LOL

Reminds me of "Catch Me If You Can". Didn't he use the Wally West Flash name as his alias in the movie?

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Originally Posted by Jeebogs

Had a listen last night, and something struck me as strange. Tanya mentions that at the colony they weren't allowed to do any kind of research into the zombies and that the sweat/scent thing was new to her. But didn't Victor smash some (wine?) bottles when Michael, pegs and Kelly first met him and they were running from Zombies coming their way. Also, he's wearing tons of cologne. He obviously knows about the scent thing, so why doesn't Tanya?

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I think it's likely that through trial and error, Victor or Fernando figured out that cologne threw the zombies off their trail. They may never have made the connection as to sweat/odor being why they were being chased so effectively by the zombies. Victor might have put two and two together since he arrived at the Tower because he was never mentioned to have worn cologne before I don't think.

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

My only confused moment is that no one seemed to know about the alarm to the Armory other than the "Rat."
Everyone kept saying "What's that?" Maybe i'm reading into it too much

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I think it's likely that no one has heard the alarm go off since it was installed in the armory. It would have been tested once or twice, but not everyone would have heard it before. That's why I think there's so much confusion goin' on.

Nik,

"I'd buy that for a dollar" if it wasn't Mike who yelled "What's that?" The alarm was going off kinda loudly wasn't it? The only way I give this a pass is if there were multiple alarms going off or they had sensors on other areas in the tower.
One last question: aren't most of the living quarters on two floors only now?

I think the alarm sound is in the hallway. When Angel and Hope are in the Guardroom, it sounds muffled. Angel opens the door it gets louder. It closes and get quieter as Hope and Pippin speak. I originally believed that Angel had to think about it and then came up with Burt's alarm. But, Angel says it is wired through the guard room. Maybe there really is a a flashing light that says "Burts"

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

Nik,

"I'd buy that for a dollar" if it wasn't Mike who yelled "What's that?" The alarm was going off kinda loudly wasn't it? The only way I give this a pass is if there were multiple alarms going off or they had sensors on other areas in the tower.
One last question: aren't most of the living quarters on two floors only now?

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Well hell, Angel couldn't figure it out right away either. If the leader of the Tower and his right hand guy couldn't figure it out (most likely for dramatic purposes and nothing more) I can't imagine Riley, Kelly, Pegs, Lewis, Steven, or any other faceless Tower resident being able to figure it out yet.

And yes. I believe the living quarters are between floors 5-7. Though I'm honestly confused about the entire layout of where things are in the tower right now. Some things just aren't adding up in terms of where the guard room is vs. the living quarters vs. the armory/store (if there is a store anymore). Maybe if its not too spoilery Kc can clear that up because I was positive the armory would be on the same floor as the guard room like it had been before the war. Obviously that isn't the case.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Maybe if its not too spoilery Kc can clear that up because I was positive the armory would be on the same floor as the guard room like it had been before the war. Obviously that isn't the case.

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Burt's room is not on the same floor as the guard room. Not any more anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kc

Burt's room is not on the same floor as the guard room. Not any more anyway.

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so does that make it Burt's armory on 4, the guard room and some living quarters on 5, and then more living quarters on 6 and 7? Or something similar to that?

I have the impression that if we put Burt's room at "0" the guard station is "-1" Tanya and Michael were "+1". The aid station does not have to be on the same one as the computer. Most people probably went to lockdown like they did when the one with the markings / Paul hit them

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

so does that make it Burt's armory on 4, the guard room and some living quarters on 5, and then more living quarters on 6 and 7? Or something similar to that?

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Guard room on 4, Burt's Armory on 5. [It might be 5 and 6, I don't have my notes, but the guard room is a floor below Burt's]

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Originally Posted by Kc

Guard room on 4, Burt's Armory on 5. [It might be 5 and 6, I don't have my notes, but the guard room is a floor below Burt's]

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Thanks, kc! That helps a lot :)

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Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche

I have the impression that if we put Burt's room at "0" the guard station is "-1" Tanya and Michael were "+1". The aid station does not have to be on the same one as the computer. Most people probably went to lockdown like they did when the one with the markings / Paul hit them

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Tanya and Michael were on the same floor as Burt, just a different end of the hall.

Tonya is on 6 correct? Everyone made the move to quarters above the 4th or 5th floor after the war correct? Most of the apartments above 7th would be empty because people..are well, lazy. Too many stairs I think was the reason. That could have just been prior to Kelly intro episode.

Anyway, I also thought the "Armory" was also Burt's domicile?

I will have to listen again tonight. My memory is Angel hears an alarm and exits the guard room.
Michael hears the alarm and leaves the "computer room"
Michael gets to the stairway. I think it is a cement structure with metal stairs. SO, lots of echoes.

Michael sees Angel down a flight or two of stairs. Angel says "Comon" then we hear more metal stairs.

If Micahel is on Burts floor and Angel is on his way, why would Angel say comon? If Michael was on the same floor as Burt's armory, and was told the alarm was for Burts armory would he wait for backup (thus the delay and more stair sounds) or would he run right to Burt's? In any case, there is a squabble at the lock with Angel arriving first, but then hesitating and not unlocking it.

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

Tonya is on 6 correct? Everyone made the move to quarters above the 4th or 5th floor after the war correct? Most of the apartments above 7th would be empty because people..are well, lazy. Too many stairs I think was the reason. That could have just been prior to Kelly intro episode.

Anyway, I also thought the "Armory" was also Burt's domicile?

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She might live up there, but she was on the same floor as Michael when the events in 22 unfolded. The Armory is Burt's room.

Roger that.

Tango Kilo Charlie for the clear up.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

I'll repost this theory as to the potential meaning of Pippin's "It's You" because I believe it may have been lost in the snarl of Part 1's thread:

Lets just imagine that Pippin was an informant/plant/mole/whatever seeking out the original rat to reestablish contact. Pippin knows he is seeking someone out. But he's never met this person and isn't sure who it may be.

All of a sudden while he's in the guard room, an alarm goes off, and a person enters the room holding a silenced pistol (which has to be out already because you don't hear any sound of a weapon being drawn). It becomes obvious to him, this is who he was supposed to be searching for ("It's you") but sadly it's too late and Pippin is toast.

In this instance Pippin could have met everyone and shook their hand in line and held a conversation with them. But if he wasn't sure who he was looking for it wouldn't make a difference if he had met them before or not. The "It's you" could be prompted by someone he's already met but has now revealed themselves as the Rat to him by coming in holding an assassins weapon.

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your reading my mind. This is why i believe the shooter was Kelly. All the time spent chatting with him was really a way of determining his intentions.
I truly believe Kelly contacted the mallers in a fit of anger at Michael and now truly regrets her decision. She will now do anything to protect the tower.

Lewis is my kind of guy

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Originally Posted by blue rage

your reading my mind. This is why i believe the shooter was Kelly. All the time spent chatting with him was really a way of determining his intentions.
I truly believe Kelly contacted the mallers in a fit of anger at Michael and now truly regrets her decision. She will now do anything to protect the tower.

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The only problem with it being Kelly, is that does she have any technical skills? You would need at least some training in wiring and electrical systems to trip the alarm remotely from the available wires near the guard room.

Plus, Riley was lying when she didn't see anyone. It's not that difficult to detect; unless it was just her drunken accent.

Well, most theories I had (were/are currently being) discussed. This is one I'm just going to sit back and watch the fireworks go off, instead of trying to evaluate whether it's a cake or a mortar from the sound of the squib. (yay metaphor, and yes I know too much about fireworks)

I'm just going to comment about one thing. HUGE props to Kc Wayland / Ron Ghallager / Katie Wayland on the music for this episode. It's a subtle thing, but adds so much to this episode. Big kudos.

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Originally Posted by j0be

I'm just going to comment about one thing. HUGE props to Kc Wayland / Ron Ghallager / Katie Wayland on the music for this episode. It's a subtle thing, but adds so much to this episode. Big kudos.

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Speaking of music, did anyone else think of Silent Hill at 13:26/21:19?

And yes, great job on the music for this episode!

What's with all the hate on Riley? She has no motive. Most times in these situations clues have already been given out, unless I forgot something Riley's just mad at herself for what happened to Lizzy. Besides I don't think KC would just turn around and say: "just kidding about the scent thing!"

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Originally Posted by Leet693

What's with all the hate on Riley? She has no motive. Most times in these situations clues have already been given out, unless I forgot something Riley's just mad at herself for what happened to Lizzy. Besides I don't think KC would just turn around and say: "just kidding about the scent thing!"

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in 20-3 Scratch makes mention of the Mallers having a "her" during a conversation with Tardust (right after mentioning that she is going to drop Pippin off [around 12:25]). I know I for one have been theorizing that this "her" might be a hostage. If this is the case everyone in the Tower could have a potential motive.
As for the scent factor, She could have splashed herself with booze after killing Pippin to throw off people off her trail. When Angel and Riley were on the roof before, Angel didn't mention her smelling of alcohol. It was more like he noticed her acting drunk (slurred speech, stumbling. knocking things over, etc...).

P.S.
Riley also has the best motive for stealing the silenced pistol in the first place. I wondered in the part 1 thread why someone would steal the gun because whoever did it would have had to steal it before Pippin showed up either before or during the Lizzie rescue attempt. Riley has a motive for stealing the gun: Steven. She might have wanted to kill ol' Steve for getting Lizzie kicked out and then Pippin shows up and takes priority.
I doubt it will happen, but if Steven winds up with a cap in his ass I'm declaring victory. :cool: