I'm sticking by my original opinion of what to do with Tardust.Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzyFabre
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalJHP
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I'm sticking by my original opinion of what to do with Tardust.Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzyFabre
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalJHP
Yea I can agree I hope they destroy himQuote:
Originally Posted by LizzyFabre
Knew you'd come in and turn it on our heads....Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
Gah! They've found me out! Ghost-Lizzy: Away! Boooooooooooooooo...Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
I miss Riley 1.0, the level-headed woman that kept everybody else calm and sane during the early days of the ZA and fought fearlessly alongside the soldiers. I pitied Riley 2.0, as she sank into alcoholism, depression and self-pity (anyone else now think that change started after The War with the Mallers, right about the time that Saul and Lizzie formally "hooked up"?). I had hope when we saw Riley in the battle at Fort Irwin, where she showed that she was a fearless and competent soldier. But that didn't seem to last, and I'm a little scared of Riley 3.0 as we sit on the verge of her torturing Tardust. Please, KC, let it be a ruse of some sort!
Kinda freaked me out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooer
Indeed. :nik:Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalJHP
SPOILER
Burt withholding that information just might have inadvertently saved Tardust's life. As it stands... it's gonna get ugly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Footbutt
I used to joke that, "Riley is going to stick her kitchen knives into Scratch's vital organs in alphabetical order... chefs do that, right?" Now seems to be a very real possibility for Tardust.
Agreed. Not to mention that any "information" gleaned from torture is unreliable at best, and often unactionable in most cases. There are other ways to get the information out of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
Creepy, but worth sharing:
One of them is Sodium Thiopental (AKA Sodium Pentothal). Its use as a "truth serum" is controversial, but possibly effective. Worth a try rather than dirtying ones hands and going down a deep, dark rabbit hole. As it turns out, Sodium Thiopental is one of the three drugs in the lethal injection cocktail and California is a capitol punishment state that uses lethal injection. Therefore, there would be some at Eastern Bay.
Let's go get a taco. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by HardKor
That's what I'm thinking. More creepy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch
SPOILER
Now, as for Skittles... I wonder if it is something as simple as bathing. The poor guy is not in his right mind and I wonder how well he is taking care of himself. He has food and water, but what about the state of his hygiene? I was half expecting Michael to remark on the inside of the water tower having a stench. As Saul pointed out waaaay back in the beginning, "Shit. They smell like shit."
Hello.
Sticking with morality in a world of zombocalypse makes the difference between you being a human and those things beings zombies.
So I sincerely hope that Burt's gonna intervene as soon as Riley is going to step over read lines. I have little trouble with her threatening Tardust in order to get information. But as soon as she gets into any kind of torture-practices, I would only "understand" her doing so, but also regret her acting that way.
Tardust is a weasel. And he needs punishment for what his attempt to rape Lizzy and maybe for sticking with drug-practices. But I don't remember him doing anything else wrong, which would make him deserve any torturing. Since he is together with R&B he actually gave no reason (yet) for them to act all Guantanamo on him.
[MENTION=1195]Osiris[/MENTION]: I agree with you in so far that Riley seems to turn into Sith Riley right now; this is nothing compared to what Scratch has done ever since we know her, which means either she started being evil when she killed Charly for nothing or she took Kalani's daughter hostage in order to force Kalani into actions he wouldn't have done - depending on which action took place earlier.
Best wishes!
Liam
I think the fun part of all this is seeing where the moral barometer of the forum falls. Just goes to show how easily people can turn from civilized to the wild west. If shit hits the fan and ya'll need me...ill be living alone in a cave at an undisclosed location.
while I agree tar should have to face some type of consequences for the rape attempt, that should come at the proper hands...namely, sauls. I would think he is actually the only one who knows the truth about that.
tardust has given them all the info hes going to know already. They know scratch is somewhere, tracking a group that left the colony. In truth, even a day away from her and the other two and he likely won't have a clue what her next move is. He said it himself, she's lost control, she's a total loose cannon(paraphrasing)...how could he, or anyone, predict her next move?
IF B&R were going to go down the torture for info route, that should have been the absolute first thing they did. They wake him up, as soon as he recognized Burt. Burt should have shot his finger off. Quick, (relatively) "painless" and would prove right up front, before ANY dialogue between the two parties....tar KNOWS they are not fucking around. With the way they are handling it now, really..going from semi-friendly captors(they haven't beat on him yet,that we know of)..all tar will do is shut down... Perhaps its naive, but I tend to believe him...to much random chance for it to be a setup. So I hope its a red herring, he could have been useful, even if a weasel.
Weird... anyone else getting that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
I think that is all he's doing. I do not believe in a scenario where he's being planted by Scratch. To plan for him being found by B&R she should have known in advance that they would, that day at that time, stake out an old hideout almost completely abandoned. Not realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Other option: she has spotters just like Michael. Aside from the fact that the colony is barely keeping up with the technology and they have like 20 times the resources Scratch has, even if she had some wireless spotters set up, the storm is affecting long distance communications. So I do not see this capture being planned.
How exactly would this make her not-evil?Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
I thought Lizzy's ghost would go "Tralala"Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzyFabre
It was only the first file I downloaded though, the one with the extra noises. The current one is only 22:5 though, so.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
the way i see it, Tardust doesn't know any more.
He's a survivalist, and he'll do ANYTHING to survive, and right now, finding out where Scratch is located is as important to him as it is to B&R.
He may give out 'false' information or, when the time is right, try to jump back on the Scratch bandwagon when convenient.
Good points! I guess my perception of it was a bit skewed.Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalJHP
Not me. Worked fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
Why couldn't she use the ones that Micheal is using? It sound like they don't have any password or lock on them. So can she look at them and delete her presence on them if she happen to pass one.Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
So it begins! Restarting and found something interesting, Micheal is going over again from the beginning for "his own sanity". Perhaps Micheal is infected while he is going over it.
Is it not interesting that a story about zombies almost constantly succeeds in evoking one of the most heated discussions by a simply yet ostensible character change? There is a route laid out for Riley which of course might severely shatter how she is recognized by most people. However, could we not reckon on something like this happening, could we? The easiest way of telling a zombie tale - in my very own opinion - would be "Well, we are the good guys, we eventually lost but we always stick to the rules." I put my two cents that Kc enjoys reading the forum after having created that kind of tension. Mission accomplished, Mr Wayland!
What I like to point out that I was surprised by Burt in the last episode. It was just about how passive he was when Riley discussed torturing Tardust. I do not know how to put it right but I expected from Burt to do more than the yada-yada lip service thing.
Though this is for the record only, what if it was not Tardust that is going to be tortured - what if it was Briggs (if he was still alive)? Would it be ok if he had survived and left the colony which Scratch? Would Burt say: "Look Riley, he does not know where Scratch is." And would this be sufficient for her?
Final sentence: If they are actually going to torture Tardust, it would be quite ironic if both or one of them are killed due to something Tardust just made up out of thin air simply to safe his life.
Or because he hasn't lost his head completely. Riley done went off the deep end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin1274
I do not know what to say, my brain just popped this memory out for Riley, torture, Tardust and being ... stuck in the middle with you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdX8pRDO-ow
Did I say it would? I don't see that in my post. I'm merely pointing out something important:Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
We all love Burt and Riley, right? They're decent people pushed too far. We only know this because we're given their stories, we're made to love them. Now we're being shown how their history twists them to do terrible things. All the people who've cried out for Scratch's blood are going to revel in Riley getting her information... by whatever means necessary, and they're okay with it because they understand what she went through to get to that place. That's a luxury Scratch was never given. You can say, "But... but she's evil," all you want, but the fact is Riley is about to head down the same road, taking Burt along with her. What does that say about either of them, about us? I've said from the start Scratch is misunderstood, and has a great deal of trauma in her life that shaped her into the person she had to be to survive, a theory that was proven by the reveal of her sexual and physical abuse. Riley has reached a point of no return, there will be zero redemption for her in the eyes of all but the hypocrite if she goes through with her plan to torture the information out of Tardust. I'd be very surprised if Kc pussed out during the writing process, and lets Riley back down--or be talked down by Burt. BUT! We'll see what happens.
There was a episode of Gang Land I watched a few years back. They were talking about a gang called Zoe Pound. They interviewed other gangs that went "Nope. Those Cats are nuts" due to the level of violence they were willing to do. Mainly in regards to torture and their willingness to slice you open/kill you with machetes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin1274
I can not remeber the quote 100% but it basicly said "It is easy to kill someone/something with a gun. Anyone can do that. To toture someone, or kill them with knives, means you have to get up close to them. That takes it to a personal level. That changes you."
You have gang bangers that have killed a lot of people get bothered over the idea of killing with knives and torture. It is like the difference between shooting a deer... and beating one to death with a hammer. It is a level of cruelty you can't come back from. When you go past a level it changes who you are.
Pegs became a lot less needy after she shot and killed Latch. She started to become her own woman. Violence changes a person. Burt knows that Scratch is nuts because of what she did to him. He knows what that level of cruelty does to a person. I don't know if he will stop her from starting though. I think he will stop her once she gets started. That when he sees Tardust going through it it will get to him. That it will ruin how he sees Riley. Burt is chasing Scratch because he feel he has to do it to protect the group. He has to have a mission in life. Isn't ok with just being one of the people and taking orders. He will see how his reasons and Rileys are really different. The goal is the same, but the ideals are different.
No. Not all the people. I, for example, have a lot of trouble accepting anything in that direction. Riley turns to the dark side of things, and I don't like it, appreciate it, support it, love it, or whatever; the opposite is true actually. And from what I read there is quite a number of WA fans that have bad feelings about Riley acting that way, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
But in general I tend to agree with you: there are enough Riley-fans or Survivor-fans which seem to live by double-standards, which is btw quite common especially with civilized people.
edit 1:
[Actually I would like to "like" your posting; but since you put all Riley fans into the same pot of argument/ opinion or whatever (ie accepting her to do some torturing), I don't feel like doing so.]
edit 2:
As for Riley performing torture on Tardust: As for now we only have reason to believe that she is going to do it; but yet she has not done it, right? So maybe Burt and/or her own sanity will hinder her enough.
Best wishes!
Liam
Nope. I just have the first and the second version of #46-3. Both are about 22:05 long. I downloaded the files from Feedburner - as usual. So, maybe, Storm's issues might have occurred with one of the other feeds?Quote:
Originally Posted by KcWeird... anyone else getting that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
I think Riley's character progression makes perfect sense. She is not very stable. Her drunkness because of Lizzy and not being able to cope with the ZA, and now her need for vengeance and torture. Do I like it, no, but it makes perfect sense. Burt's actions do too for that matter. He was tortured and mutilated by Scratch.
I personally still do not trust Tardust, so maybe their decision to torture or attempt at torture needs to happen. How many times did Scratch and co play these double cross tactics?
Regarding Skittles aka Duncan, I don't know but I am starting to believe that he does have a connection with Ink and maybe Raydon labs. Perhaps he was one of his experimental cases pre ZA and that's why Skittles let Ink into Dunbar and why the other zombies ignore Skittles. Maybe also the craziness and memory lapses are because of shock and experimentation. I mean Skittles said he hides from the zeds, but he was hanging around them in the video footage that CJ called out. Weird.
An innovative and obvious method of torture for Tardust might just look like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chdt8P_QaoY
I think they hid the cameras, instead of leaving them in plain sight....Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamKerrington
I put everyone into that category not for being a fan of Riley, but for their staunch refusal to see Scratch as a person with problems, and merely a being of pure, unredeemable evil. They tend to be the same people who lost their minds over Kalani being the rat, but felt sorry for him because of the circumstance they were privy to, roundly accepting his last act as one of redemption. The double standard is what turns me off. I don't care if you like the post or not, it doesn't stop it from being true, the Kalani fiasco is proof of this.
If she was monitor them all this time, she would know to look for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooer
You did: it is implied in the rethorical question at the end and the sarcastic Pfft... Ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
Now, that is more interesting! But... did you said so? I don't see that in your post :PQuote:
I'm merely pointing out something important:
I disagree. The general tone of the reactions here on the forum is actually leaning a lot towards a strong criticism of Riley and a strong disapproval of her intentions. Most of the people understand what she went through and still disagree with her. Even the people who approved this torturing business did so without throwing parties but rather with a lot of caveats. I might have missed a post of two with the kind of enthusiastic reaction you describe as "reveling" but it's hardly a generalized reaction.Quote:
We all love Burt and Riley, right? They're decent people pushed too far. We only know this because we're given their stories, we're made to love them. Now we're being shown how their history twists them to do terrible things. All the people who've cried out for Scratch's blood are going to revel in Riley getting her information... by whatever means necessary, and they're okay with it because they understand what she went through to get to that place. That's a luxury Scratch was never given.
Now, "screen time" has been a lot longer for Riley than for Scratch, since the show puts the towerites in the forefront, I'll give you that, but I disagree when you say Scratch's road to the dark side was not presented to us. Riley got more time at the forefront because her road takes place, in time, in parallel with the story. Scratch is presented to us as an already accomplished character, and she evolves very very little during the story, aside from the short intimate moment with Lizzy at the hospital. But KC did it the only way he could, he gave us the backstory of her being raped once and almost twice, and her pregnancy. You yourself note this in your post. That's powerful stuff, even if it's not covering as many minutes in the show as all of Riley's evolution. Again, I think we do see the reasons for her being like she is, and still disapprove her.
About them it says, as I mentioned in my first post, that they are horrifying. I don't know about all of us, but I'm pretty happy with what my reaction says about me :)Quote:
You can say, "But... but she's evil," all you want, but the fact is Riley is about to head down the same road, taking Burt along with her. What does that say about either of them, about us?
See, I was referring to this part above.Quote:
I've said from the start Scratch is misunderstood, and has a great deal of trauma in her life that shaped her into the person she had to be to survive, a theory that was proven by the reveal of her sexual and physical abuse.
I totally agree. She will be corrupted with no way back. We'll see.Quote:
Riley has reached a point of no return, there will be zero redemption for her in the eyes of all but the hypocrite if she goes through with her plan to torture the information out of Tardust. I'd be very surprised if Kc pussed out during the writing process, and lets Riley back down--or be talked down by Burt. BUT! We'll see what happens.
What's up with the 12 pages only?! O_o
What I'm saying is that she'd have to have wireless ones working during the storm, receive the pictures via airwaves, see B&R get to the greenhouse and set her plan in motion by sending Tardust. Even if she had wireless cameras, which is unlikely, the communications would be distorted by the storm which is already happening when Burt and Riley leave the house (they make a comment on that).Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
With the spotters she'd have to go on site and get the photos manually, which makes it even more unlikely in my opinion.
I think either Riley will carry out the torture, realise she made a horrible mistake, and will be mentally changed, or start the torture and questions herself as to who she has become....
Also, i realise that Scratch did have lots of problems, many we don't know of, which made her into who she is. But, the results of that are what make her evil, due to her growing up interactions and environment, not necessarily just on her own accord. Although she does seem to enjoy doing what she does......
:hsugh: You've completely missed my point, but exemplified it profoundly. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
Scratch is a really interesting character and I agree with you 100% that she is just another person with problems. In my opinion, I think the story leads people to hate her as we don't get the same level of detail about her as we do of the other characters. All of our experiences with Scratch are from the point of view of the "good guys" in the story. It's easy for them to hate her given what has happened and in a live-or-die type of situation it's reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
At some point I think it'd be really interesting to see Scratch's journal. Maybe after the show is finished? It could explain a lot of questions I have about her and others may have too. What did she do before Z-Day? What was it that caused her and Latch to be so close? Yeah they're siblings but their bond seems to go much further than that. Did she go through a progression like we're seeing with Riley? For all we know she could've been a kindergarten teacher at one point. It'd be great to get the other side of the story.
Kc, there's a money-generating idea for you. Sell the Scratch journal to make some money for your next project! With as thorough as you are about the story, I wouldn't be surprised if an outline of one exists already anyways.
ETA:There's always a way back!Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131