I vote that Journalers be entered into the Hall of Records as an Official We're Alive Sniglet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannit
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I vote that Journalers be entered into the Hall of Records as an Official We're Alive Sniglet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannit
A thought has surfaced in my mind that I think the forum should look into. The PoV for season 3. We have Michael (duh), Saul, Burt, and Tanya. No one else. Pegs, Victor, Kelly, Riley, Soliders, Hope, and even Datu haven't narrated so far. I know we're only in the first chapter, but I think it should be considered when thinking about Group splits. Out of the Tower Folk there are only 4 that kept to journaling extensively. Lizzy even stopped it seems, and she was one who was all gung ho for Journaling after she was evicted from the Tower.
With this in mind it leads me to think that Burt and Riley will run off after Scratch on their own, and after she is dead, Burt will return alone with his tale.
Also Since we haven't heard from any of the solider's perspective I don't think they will survive to the end. It would make sense for Michael to have them all in the report making routine, so why haven't we heard from them. Again I understand we are only three episodes into the final season (that kinda hurt to type), but we haven't even heard a peep from their PoV.
Finally (and after a lot more thought), I'm sticking to my thinking that Michael will bargain for Saul and Victor to stay. And more over, convince her (or atleast make her very upset at the compromise) to let them stay under Michael's command (which they already are).
I dunno guys. The whole Colony/Dunbar split, Who goes/Who stays thing seems too obvious as a major conflict based on CJ's grudge. Hopefully the Colonists are not so blind as to let the Military & Medical expertise leave based on one person's grudge. See how she used her new authority for personal use by telling the guys that the Colonists just elected her Empress. Talk about you benevolent dictators.
It just seems too simplistic for the conflict to result in that kind of split. Like everyone's been saying, I doubt Saul & Victor are gonna leave without saying why. When the reason get out, crap is gonna happen. This seems like the simplest course. I think KC is setting us up for crazy chaos just to reveal a simpler solution.
listened to the episode again... I have to say the scene with Burt. and Riley is probably in the running for most powerful scene in the series thus far.. I mean there is so much emotion in her words. especially. the lines" I can't. .I don't care..I don't care about their stupid fucking farm and their stupid fucking wall" and then the last line" ....fuck them" ... just a very powerful scene. I really can't wait to see how it goes.
The less interesting but possibly more likely scenario is that CJ ends up changing her mind about the banishment. She's got a lot more to lose than anyone else if things go down the way you mention here - and the way a lot of people have mentioned so far. Perhaps she calms down and reasons this idea through a bit more and comes to her senses. Considering all the trauma the girl has been through in the last couple of days it IS understandable that she might be a tad temperamental and overreact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
Lies of omission are still lies. Victor is very adept at this lying method thus far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3_T3ch
I like this episode. It makes my prediction heart warm and fuzzy. I've said Pete/Glenn would reveal Sean's demise to CJ because Victor and Saul certainly won't. Doesn't benefit them to do it. Speaking of liars, I buy Victor's apology re: Angel. It was genuine.
I am also doubling down on my theory that Scratch dies at Riley's hand and that Burt won't make it. This possibility just became about a 95% guarantee In my head.
CJ has displaced a metric boatload of anger. Think of what Riley said about angel...she's lost him again. CJ is going through the same thing but she has power which corrupts. There are millions of different punishments she could levy as leader but she's chosen the one that causes the most damage short of execution: banishment. I can understand why, but I feel like even she knows her reasoning is somewhat flawed. CJ didn't listen which resulted in CJ losing her leg. No one put her in that basement with Scratch but her. CJ assumed the Eastern Bay people killed Sean but never asked directly. Now she's mad about it.
Now as for the colonists: non resident exclusion? Really? It's so nice now that you've made the decision for them that you'll allow others to be involved. They really haven't learned a damn thing from the moment we've met them.
Big congrats to Mr. & Mrs. Wayland...aw, now I sound all late to the party and stuff...which I am...don't judge me!
It may be that we are all supposed to think the way most of you are thinking about CJ, but honestly, no matter how logically I'd try to think, I'd feel the same way she did (good writing). I think it's normal and way in character for her. She's a consistently portrayed as a passionately loyal lady. They essentially used her love and loyalty to Bricks to get what they wanted and she ended up losing her leg (It would really be interesting to learn that Bricks is still alive somewhere). She's working on her diplomacy but she still yells first, then rethinks and rejiggers.
Plus, she basically threw herself at Saul only to find out he might have been looking at her as just his ride over to his Girlfriend's house. Gotta sting.
Basically, we needed reasons for our group to separate. Looking at the voodoo stories I think Scratch and Ink will end up in some sort of final embrace.
But even Obi Wan Kenobi was forgiven by Luke when Old Ben admitted that he left some parts out of how Luke's father "died."Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Man, I keep this up and people will accuse me of being the president of CJ's fan club. uh... no.
This is an interesting idea, but I think it negates the setup from this episode. I think Saul and Victor at least are going to have to leave the Colony, at least for a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannit
I am starting to think this is going to set up yet another Pegs/Michael argument. Because, first of all, there is no way Saul is going to be able to convince the Tower folks that he is leaving by his own choice. And once Saul lets on the reason he's leaving, Michael is going to want everyone from the old Tower/Ft. Irwin to go with them. Which is going to lead to Pegs declaring that she won't go and call Michael out on wanting to abandon everyone from the colony, again.
And while they're fighting it out, and generally making everyone else feel all kinds of awkward, Saul will pull the same sort of thing Lizzy did when she got kicked out of the Tower: He'll say that, no, he doesn't want everyone go with them. He and Victor will go off on their own, and Michael and everyone else should stay at the Colony and defend it/take the war to the zombies/etc...But of course Lizzy will want to go with Saul and won't take no for an answer.
I agree it's pretty straight forward thinking. That doesn't mean it won't be true "somewhat". That is, maybe we have the splits like people are theorizing but the splits aren't permanent. Plenty of things can still happen to bring groups together or drive a wedge. I see the Colony paying a big price longer term. Too many people in one place. TOWTM won't be able to resist and he'll be better prepared to take a defended position this time....Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
Either way, storm's a comin'
Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say. When I tried reading what I wrote, it made no earthly sense.O_oQuote:
Originally Posted by JannitThe less interesting but possibly more likely scenario is that CJ ends up changing her mind about the banishment. She's got a lot more to lose than anyone else if things go down the way you mention here - and the way a lot of people have mentioned so far. Perhaps she calms down and reasons this idea through a bit more and comes to her senses. Considering all the trauma the girl has been through in the last couple of days it IS understandable that she might be a tad temperamental and overreact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
Really? You thought her voice was sexy? Lol, maybe it's 'cause I'm the same sex, but she always sounded kinda whiny or bossy to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
I should also say, though, no offense to Constance Parng. I have always said that if there's a character I dislike, the actor must be doing a hell of a job!
Firstly, as with everyone else, congrats to Kc and Blaire. Marriage is a step that changes nothing and everything, in the best way.
A few points:
- Besides everything else that CJ is doing, I can totally see why she no longer trusts Saul and Vic and wants them out. From her point of view, Saul was the person she trusted most in the whole world, and he lied to her about how her last love died, to get to his girlfriend, and then She loses her leg (Even though she may have made the wrong choice at the hospital, she wouldn't have been there at all without the lie. And perhaps had she not gone in Burt would have died, without CJ there to distract Scratch from him). I would be removing that person from my Christmas card list as well. Even if she kept them around, what would she trust them to do. Neither Saul or Vic are wallflowers, to take a supporting role.
- Tanya talked a lot at the start with CJ about her work being her choice. I do not think the needs of others are going to play as highly anymore, compared with her own feelings.
- Everyone seems ready to give up on Pegs and Kelly (Yes, I know big surprise, CCZ is defending Pegs ;) ). The situation that lead to them going to Boulder I think going to be different to this choice. Boulder was a chance at safety, they know that staying at the colony will not be be safe. Remember that Kelly and Pegs were the ones that chose to go on the mission with Michael that resulted in them getting to the colony in the first place. And their loyalty is still with the original crew, look where they live.
Also, I still think that Pegs has to play a role in bringing the Scratch storyline to its likely bloody conclusion. Pegs will at least be key in getting Scratch out of hiding.
First things first, A hearty congratulations to Mr. & Mrs. Wayland. I wish you the best and many great years to come. Awesome guys, Awesome.
(I'll admit, I had a look at the emoticons. I was hoping that their might have been a new one, bells. alas there is not.)
Yet again, I wasn't there as these rolled in. With what seemed to be little to no foil hat revelations, I didn't think I'd have much to contribute. I'll just go through the posts from #1 and grab quotes as I go...
I don't think I mentioned it because it seemed to me to be generally assumed that this was the case... though I do think it may have been mentioned previously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
Who else would it have been behind the wheel of that SWAT van? A van I might add had a fair bit of equipment, guns, ammo and CJ's maps of LA in it... maps of LA with directions to get back to Dunbar.
Cue: Bizarre emotional scene where Scratch is trying to get through the locked doors and gates of Dunbar, cursing Pegs for the death of Latch at every step.
I think that the crew that ventures bask to Dunbar are in for a nasty and terribly ironic surprise: Scratch holed up in the tower that she was looking for all along. With the tables turned, she now needs to keep them out. With a chopper at their disposal though and no more RPG rounds... they could go in through the roof and make short work of the matter.
That all depends on how protracted the return to Dunbar is. Perhaps Vic and Saul hole up in one of CJ's many safe houses for a while, feeding intel back to CJ through Michael. CJ keeps Michael on a short leash and won't act on the info. Riley and Burt vanish from the story for a few chapters. Michael decides enough is enough, pick up Saul and Vic and go full on commando to retake Dunbar. Only to discover a dying Burt in the hall and a crazed Riley standing over Scratch's pincushioned corpse.
I sense a return to LA/Dunbar Chapter titled: "Once More Unto the Breach."
From the intel that Gatekeeper gave CJ (Ch. 32 2/3 @ 13:30) 90 colonists, 20 slaves and 30 Mallers.Quote:
Originally Posted by fredrum
(I'll also point out that it's possible that the female "Maller" that was present during their assault on the arena, might have been one of the deserters/escapees from Dunbar.)
That's too good for her. Throw her in pit with a live Inkling that was captured for study. Otherwise, I can't help but get the feeling that she's going to live out the series, even be left as a mystery at the show's conclusion. (Foil hat conjecture above aside.)Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyZombified
But Max might not know what they "have until the end of the week" for. I don't think he was there for CJ's ultimatum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognaurd
Nah, that's more of an Army Buddy Brotherhood kind of thing. It's the sort of thing they needed to do as the Soldiers that knew him. Puck will understand once he learns the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by scbubba
My take is that being rebuffed by Saul is partially fueling her resentment. She lost Sean and can't have Saul so she's sending him away. Victor is getting caught in the fallout even though he was primary to the "lie of omission." I strongly suspected that this might have played out different had Saul reciprocated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eviebae
I do believe that this is the largest (confirmed) group of people in one place since the show began. TOWTM hadn't gone south early on, but he sure has now.Quote:
Originally Posted by scbubba
An increase of activity at and around Dunbar is going to serve as a huge distraction to the zombie hordes, particularly as a distraction away from the Colony... leaving them without the chopper and heavy weapons may be moot. Leaving may just be doing them a favor.
Also, remember that Michael urged for the LA recon mission and was privy to the intel that was gathered. (Ch. 33 1/3 @ 21:46) The team's map says the naval base is clear, gives a good route, staging areas and info on the local ground wells... What wells? They already discussed early on before the first tower fell that there were no water wells in LA. Datu pointed out that he thinks LA's water came from the Colorado River. Were they talking about oil? The Naval station just might give them some of the supplies they need... Maybe fuel, but more importantly ammo for the .50 cal and M134. If I remember correctly the navy has quite the, um, "love affair" with the .50 cal and gatlings.
Whelp, I started this when there were nine pages. There's now ten. I better get this out.
I know what you mean! Loved loved loved the episode. My only problem is that I'm such a die-hard Michael fan that I almost want everything to go his way x.x although I know it would be boring if it did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooer
I cheered when I realized that Riley and Burt are gonna go kick down Scratch's door. I think that ultimately Michael will still have power though because, like others have mentioned, once he finds out that Saul and Victor are kicked out there won't be much incentive for him to stay. Especially with the desire to get rid of Scratch once and for all.
Who exactly is going to stay and who is going to go is still a mystery to me. I mean, I was totally kicked in the nuts by the whole "I want you gone" conversation between CJ, Saul and Victor. Did not see that coming at all.
TO LIAM AND LITMASTER: Sorry I wasn't around this morning when the episode dropped! On the plus side though, I finally got a good nights sleep. Woot woot.
I'm an asshole.
CONGRATS TO THE NEWLY WEDS!!!!!!!! I'm very happy for you two! :)
There are groundwater wells in Los Angeles. They just don't have anywhere near the capacity to support the local population, pre-Z. Here's a map showing general locations for the major groundwater wells in LA County. Don't worry about there being none near Westminster, that's in Orange County so it isn't covered on this map.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Shirt
Each dot represent a district with multiple wells. BTW, there is a well right in the heart of Ground Zero in Inglewood.
So we have CJ taking control of the colony which puts Michael in second in command *guessing on that* while Saul and Victor are being kick out cause they were lying about Seans death..maybe yes or no....and then we have Ridley who is pretty much going badass at the moment wanting to go after Scratch after what happen with Angel....Think I have it right? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Huh. how about that. Trust a "local" to know more than a New Englander... Good to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch
Something else I nearly forgot... For those suggesting that Kelly might leave with those who are or might depart, don't forget she shattered her ankle during the escape from Boulder. She's not going anywhere for a while yet. She may leave during a second wave of departures/deserters.
I had a frustrating day so I did a quick 37-3 inspired doodle! Poor Angel. Still the punching bag, even in death.
Attachment 2695
Note: I wanted to put this in the Fan Submitted Content > Fan Art thread but I couldn't remember how to do the damn "spoilers" tag. (Bless your soul, Nik. I know you told me before but I can't find the discussion we had on it.)
First, congratulations to Mr. and Mrs. Wayland! I hope you have many happy years ahead.
Second, I think there is an interesting parallel going on between CJ and Riley right now. Both have lost loves (romantic or otherwise) in their life. But, CJ is handling it by pushing people away, and not really choosing to go after the main source of the problem, the zombies. Riley's response is more productive in my opinion, and I'm excited to see how her and Burt's storyline plays out. The ending scene is one of my absolute favorites of the series so far.
Third, assuming Riley and Burt do hunt down Scratch, I could see Pegs being used as a decoy to lure Scratch out into the open, but not actually participating further in any violence that may ensue. I'm throwing my hat fully in the Burt/Riley camp for the actual death-and I think they will do it together.
Fourth, really CJ, really?! Tanya saved her life, regardless of her perception of how she wound up in that situation. I understand there is a lot psychologically that goes into losing a limb, but her behavior is unacceptable. I can't find it now, but whoever said that this is really more about the fallout from Saul turning her down than it is the lie, I completely agree. Also, I think if she doesn't sit herself down to recover, we may be seeing some nasty complications in this recovery-that wound could still get infected badly, and it sounds like Tanya's at the edge of her supplies and know-how. And that's if she's even around the colony to help CJ.
Okay, here we go.
This entire chapter has been well-acted, well- executed, and involved a lot of catching people up to everything the different groups have been doing. The scene with Riley and Burt at Angel's grave was amazing. I knew that was going to come to Burt going out for Scratch, but didn't know who was going with him. KC had been foreshadowing that Michael would not be in charge of the colony, and it looks like the Colonists proved it right. I can buy them turning to CJ to run the joint. She is a hero to them. Everything has been brilliantly scripted as well ....
... until CJ flips out. I listened to all of Chapter 3 at least three times this summer. At no point did I hear Saul and Victor claim that the mallers had killed Sean. Saul said "the people that killed him are there." That's it. The source of the information that Sean arrived at the colony and later was killed came from Victor, who left before the mallers took the Colony over. So if he knew Sean was dead before he left, how could they have intimated that the mallers killed him?
The first big gaping plot hole for We're Alive. Totally took me out of the episode. Bixby and Gatekeeper killed Sean, before the mallers got there, and CJ had to have known that.
But I wish Mr. and Mrs. Wayland happiness and good fortune. :)
Everyone IS saying they see a lot of Gatekeeper/Marcus in CJ now...I understand people claiming too many similarities for this split to get covered up, but if it walks like a duck....Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
Actually CJ asks point blank "so the prisoners got him." Saul responds with, "yeah, they got him." Chapter 31 part 2 at roughly the 6:50 mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by kdalton
I don't see Lizzy called out anywhere in the split prediction. You say 'torn between baby/saul' about tanya, makes it sound like you think lizzy stays at colony? Just curiousQuote:
Originally Posted by scbubba
Good point. I meant to include Lizzie in with Saul and Co. I can't see Saul deciding to leave her at the Colony when he is being banished from it (as in never to return). I'll edit the post to add her to the Dunbar list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
And with Saul and Lizzie (and the baby) going to Dunbar, that will be a bigger pull for Tanya to go (since they need medical care for delivery and newborn).
All in all, it's going to put CJ and the Colony in an interesting position. And the Tower crew as well. At the end of the chapter we have the "Balance of Power" from the chapter title. Balance of Power implies an equal amount on all sides, in this case the crews of Michael and CJ. This equilibrium is about to get upset as the next few days unfold with Saul and Victor...
[ spoiler ] CONTENT [ /spoiler ]Quote:
Originally Posted by Alizée
Just remove the spaces between spoiler and brackets and voila!SPOILER
I understand this argument, but playing the advocate here, I think Saul/Victor will fill in the 'need-to-knows' (Michael, Lizzy, and Tanya) on why they ACTUALLY leave. Everyone else will be told Saul/Victor are leading the Recon mission for the offensive against Ink. Saul will convince Tanya/Lizzy to stay since all the hospital stuff is there, so it's best for the baby. They'll assure them of Dunbar's Safety so that once the baby's born, I think the Towerites will bail, but until then Saul/Victor will be allowed to go it alone. Sorry to repeat myself, but this will be Michael's plan all along....Dunbar. He just keeps the peace for now. Perhaps Burt/Riley will go with Saul/Victor since they need a chance to ground pound and hunt scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
Saying it here. Burt, Riley, Scartch, Ink....all atop a mountain. Riley kills Scratch with an arrow to the un-scarred eye as she's atop Ink about to kill him(Because Ink is who raped scartch). Ink Jumps up, kills Riley. Burt get's a crocodile dundee sized knife and impales Ink as Ink impales Burt. They all die as the mountain they are on top of erupts, as it's a volcano anyways. The ash-winter caused by the eruption clears the ozone of the pre-historic earthquake induced Haze and eradicates the spread of the zombie virus. The eruption blasts Burt to a safe place, and a small drop of lava cauderizes his wounds and he survives having witnessed the end of it all to recount to Michael, and by association....us.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
The End.
I'm still a fan of CJ! As she said, people were doing nothing right. We saw the chapters before that not much is being done. But everyone, on the forum, is right she a planner not a leader. She probably thought sweet talk Tanya would keep her in line but I believe she doesn't know that Tanya and Saul are family. She set a net but doesn't know that the tower folk are a lot closer then she thinks.
And as Nik said a lie is a lie, and guess what?! They have consequences. People think they can lie and nothing will happen or it will blow over. But they are angry that it doesn't? Sorry, they made the choose to lie then they as made the choose for the consequence.
I think we CJ haters (or Asshola, Queen of the Colons, as she shall be known henceforth) focus on the consequence of Saul lie that matters most: the safety and freedom of a lot of people, including a pregnant woman, and I would lie for that any day of the week. CJ's lost leg in my opinion is a consequence of her not listening to Saul and going in first, having a the redshirt shot in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
Somebody argued she wouldn't have been there in the first place, had it not be for Saul's lie, and that's correct: she would have been in Dunbar whatching DVDs with her cats while trying to have Saul abandon Lizzy. I find it very hard to find an angle to sympathize with her from the very beginning when she says to Tanya she crippled her and not a single thanks.
The problem with that logic is that you justify the lie by the result of what occur. What if the story went another way and the copter never made and as a result everyone die in colony because they were too busy defend themselves from the mallers? Would you blame that on Saul and Vic then?Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
Yes, what CJ did was her fault but that was base on a judgement call that pretty much it. And if you remember Saul also got shot right afterward on poor choice of run in as well.
Also Saul and Vic could had left on their own without CJ. Nothing was keep them from doing that beyond the idea that they need CJ.
Why is everyone,on the forum, jump on Michael and Vic lsame way they are on CJ since they are the ones that cause the whole Maller/Colony mess? BC we sure know that Colony remember who are fault.
Not really, no. I'm following that logic since it's the logic followed by CJ ("Somebody else, not you, crippled me, the result is that I lost a leg, so it is your fault for lying to me"). I would actually focus more on the intentions. Saul and Vic wanted to do good, CJ didn't. Essentially, CJ is pinning Scratch's actions on Saul and Vic.Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
Surely that is again a consequence of CJ rushing in instead of waiting out for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
I agree they did not need CJ, except they had no hope being just the two of them and she was hesitant to let them even call Irwin for help.
I had some problems understanding this, nobody on the forum is jumping on Michael and Vic the same way they are with CJ. Also, I do not get what BC is.Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
Sorry, really need to hire a proofreader.Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
Why isn't everyone, on the forum, jump on Michael and Vic the same way they are on CJ since they are the ones that cause the whole Maller/Colony mess?
BC = Because
Do you really believe, if Saul leaves, that he would take Lizzie with him? I would imagine that he wouldn't because he would want her to be safe and he might not provide it. Then again, if I were Saul, I might take who I love with me if I knew I could protect them well.Quote:
Originally Posted by scbubba
I know I am out there on a island, but do you think after getting Saul back Michael is just going to let him go? Yea, CJ spoke to Michael and gets the better of him. But, he just got the one-two emotional knockout of Angel right after the standing eight count of Pegs.
Michael is an introvert. He needs time alone to recharge and process. He has not had that yet. If there is one thing I have noticed is that the time alone he requires to rally to do the right thing and LEAD is less and less as he matures. I can see Riley and Burt going Rogue and Michael not being able to contain them, but I think the better story is Michael holding the entire team together.
To me the story is Michael's Heroic Journey of leadership, but I also want enough time left in the story to take the fight to the enemy. I thought we were going to get it at Irwin. I was wrong. I just do not want KC to go all Gothic and let evil triumph. Sure, it is a great story, but it is not the one I want.
Michael needs to lead and hold the group together and then put his intel-side to work, because that is what I think we are listening to. Everyone has a journal, but then someone has to go through ALL of them and piece together the important pieces of each into one cohesive narrative that everyone can read and come to a similar conclusion
Grognaurd, can't rep you up at the moment so a thumbs up will have to do for now!