In my opinion, I think Scratch is gonna be like, "Lizzy! The one that lied to me about the tower being defenseless!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Onslaught
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In my opinion, I think Scratch is gonna be like, "Lizzy! The one that lied to me about the tower being defenseless!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Onslaught
Man that chatbox is distracting, i just read through like 80 posts to catch up.
Alright first things first,
Come now crowbar, you can't really expect to hit Angel like that and NOT have me come after you. (took me long enough though, damn chatbox) First up, it’s not whining rather a passing comment since he’s been busting his ass lately and his recent contributions just went unnoticed. I think it’s also a shout out from kc, to us. We’ve been discussing who could be leader for a while now, and Angel’s name has come up frequently. If anything it’s fan service, that he IS a candidate, and you should also take into consideration that Michael asked if Angel wanted leadership. Angel was smart enough to decline saying the tower was rightfully Michael’s but, to me that’s recognition of Angel’s growth and possibly foreshadowing of the next change of leadership. Keep in mind we are only in season two of three to four seasons, in that time, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t another change of leadership. And when that time comes, my boy Angel will be waiting. But for right now, I’d say Angel’s leadership abilities would be equal to that of Burt. But the tower’s situation is dire, and Burt’s leadership level is no longer enough to keep the crazed tower residents at bay, which is where the fired up and recharged Michael comes into play. Consider Michael to be leveled up. Michael is the leader the tower needs right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Now on to the less important things
Scratch is not the leader of the Mallers. Durai is not dead. Durai is fine. Do I have evidence for this? No, no I do not. But I do know how stories work. You don’t introduce an extremely powerful character like Durai, and then kill him off behind the scenes. Durai is not the type of man who would give up power either, so no scratch did not usurp his title, not without him dying, and like I said before, its not likely he’s dead. If anything, this probably tells us more about the governmental structure of the Mallers. Durai probably doesn’t like to be concerned with small fry like finding some straggler in the middle of nowhere. Ok I’m gonna make a super nerdy reference to Star Wars now, In VI, when the droids show up at Jabba’s palace, the guards bring them to Jabba’s second in command, NOT Jabba himself. Durai is a busy man, he controls an army of convicts, on top of that his base is crumbling, who knows what their food/supply/water situation is. He’s almost surely got better things to do than fawn over every girl that shows up at his hq. Of course without a doubt we’ll find out more about this as lizzy goes deep into maller territory next few chapters.
Now for predicting the future, I’ve heard theories saying that this will lead to a second war between the Mallers and the Tower. Possible, but unlikely, Angel/Pegs gave a peace offering earlier in the season. That has to stand for something. If the Tower ends up at war with the Mallers, what would be the point of Kc taking 10 minutes of time and effort into that scene? That peace offering would have been for nothing. The Mallers aren’t going to just let Lizzy go, but once Michael, (Actually the search crew might be lead by Angel, Michael is needed at the tower to keep people calm. As for the search team, I’ll say Angel, and riley for sure, maybe we’ll find out if they got together or not. Burt as well, no doubt about that, maybe victor as well. That’s a damn strong team. 2 soldiers, a silent assassin in Riley and her bow, and scout in Victor. ) anyway its more likely that the tower search team will eventually end up knocking on the maller’s door, and a deal will be struck. Actually, maybe something more than just a deal.
We haven’t seen the end of the colony this season, I’m dead certain of that. I’ll bet anything that the season will finale with conflict between the tower and the colony. Perhaps Lizzy will be the key needed to somehow bring the Mallers into play.
Also I miss the zombies. We haven’t seen or heard from Ink, in a while. I think we can expect him showing his face before the season finale.
So are you saying you don't believe Marcus is dead either, having being "killed off" behind the scenes? Do you think it's likely that both of them are alive? Personally I have to think that one or the other is actually dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra1th
I'm a little surprised we didn't hear anything on Saul this week. I wonder if this spells disaster for the Saul and Dr. connection.
i wouldnt go that far, marcus might rly be dead, but wow u bring up a really good point. damn... i've got nothing. You win this round sir! But i have a gut feeling Durai isnt dead, just too high up on the chain of command to be bothered by news of a straggler.Quote:
Originally Posted by ObamaCat
Beezball, considering the lizzy catastrophe that's going on, and how fired up Michael is, I wouldn't expect the action to slow down, and for us to talk about saul and tanya just yet. The next chapter will probably be rounding up a search and rescue team and having them depart. But there's probably going to be a dual storyline, one with the search team, and one back at the tower.
Scratch will recognize her first. Lizzy is a tough cookie. She won't buckle easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonWisdom
Ra1th, Ra1th, Ra1th..
Remember the epi when Saul and Angel found Burt? Well, Saul school your boy in the hummer about why he basically won't lead. At the time it was because he expected respect because he's doing "everything every one else is."
You're aren't going to assume leadership by asking "Well what about me??"
You know why Burt took over? It wasn't because he's better than Angel. It's because he demanded it and took it by force of personality.
Compare the time that Burt's been there and the time Angel has been there. No way should Burt have been number 2, but he got it.
Ok, enough beating up on your boy. I agree that Durai is alive and kicking it, but i'm going to still fight you on your team up theories. LOL. You just want mass chaos huh?
I think the search and recovery team gets intercepted by the towers and Michael puts his foot down about THEIR area.
I'm going to close this by saying..
Lizzy should'a had a CROWBAR!
I'm new here but i want to take the time to agree with the sentiment about Angel. He's easily my favorite character and I second the fact he would be as good as Burt in leadership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra1th
I see where you are going with this. Maybe giving back Latch brother would be a good enough trade to see Lizzy come back to the tower.Quote:
Now for predicting the future, I’ve heard theories saying that this will lead to a second war between the Mallers and the Tower. Possible, but unlikely, Angel/Pegs gave a peace offering earlier in the season. That has to stand for something. If the Tower ends up at war with the Mallers, what would be the point of Kc taking 10 minutes of time and effort into that scene? That peace offering would have been for nothing. The Mallers aren’t going to just let Lizzy go, but once Michael, (Actually the search crew might be lead by Angel, Michael is needed at the tower to keep people calm. As for the search team, I’ll say Angel, and riley for sure, maybe we’ll find out if they got together or not. Burt as well, no doubt about that, maybe victor as well. That’s a damn strong team. 2 soldiers, a silent assassin in Riley and her bow, and scout in Victor. ) anyway its more likely that the tower search team will eventually end up knocking on the maller’s door, and a deal will be struck. Actually, maybe something more than just a deal.
Other than that, I'm sorry I have more questions to ask than posting of what I think but:
1.) When Latch asked to trade the Lizzie for the Tanker, I do wonder a little if she may have a thing for girls. I wouldn't put any money on that thought as it could be my mind going through the gutter but I'm thinking for a story possibility it is still open. If anything though now, Latch would probably just beat Lizzie till the living daylights are knocked out of her.
2.) This question contradicts the above a bit but I wonder if Latch is Sandy and Bill was her boyfriend before all this happen. I remember when Bill was Sick that he asked for Sandy and this could fit the traitor theory of him in that he had relations to latch. Then again, I wouldn't know from the top floor he would recongize it was her when she first came by. But if Bill was her boyfriend, then Latch would have all the reason to maybe have seen Angel as Cindy lived in the apartment and Latch would have to come there to see Bill. But then again, Latch for all we know was trying to size up Angel into trying to give up his name and was basically lying through her teeth when she said she knew him.
3.) The colony is about 30 to 40 miles out from L.A. That's a huge distance I'm sure for the colony to go out of its way to get revengence on the tower but for people as desparate as the mallers, maybe they would tell them about the colony. It would get messy I'm sure and maybe the tower group would feel some obligation still to keep that place a secret. But it would make a good bargaining chip to tell them of a place thats safe to get them out of L.A.
It could also come back story wise to have the mallers and the Colony come back to the tower but it would be unfair in odds against the tower. At this point, I'm taking guess at the wind.
Well, I don't think the colony has to come into play by this season finale. I think you're onto something with the Ink'ed zombie and the Mallers. Maybe they could tell them about the stadium and the make alliance to wipe out the zombies. I mean it would be the best shot they have to making L.A. safe and maybe find ground Zero to answer what caused the outbreak.Quote:
We haven’t seen the end of the colony this season, I’m dead certain of that. I’ll bet anything that the season will finale with conflict between the tower and the colony. Perhaps Lizzy will be the key needed to somehow bring the Mallers into play.
Also I miss the zombies. We haven’t seen or heard from Ink, in a while. I think we can expect him showing his face before the season finale.
If anything, it would at least wipe out the option for Them! (I like the highschool of the dead logic on why to call zombies "Them" instead of zombies. Maybe We're alive should bring it up sometime but i digress) to scavenge off the dead zombies therefore make them wither away like the zombies coming off the island in "Off the Airwaves." Then again, we don't know if zombies really need to eat to live.
Anyways, too many questions at this point in my mind to predict the future accurately.
I'm just surprised that they didn't even talk about or tease it at all. In my mind it would have been the first thing I would have done. Michael hasn't seen Saul in weeks and I would have to check on him even if were for just a minute. But nope, they just ran right back out to find Lizzy. It just seemed strange is all.
really? they said saul was fine, and the doctor is on the way. Lizzy on the other hand was kicked, sooooo, i'd say lizzy'll be the priority, other than that, i dont think Michael will be going on the search and rescue mission either. The tower is in chaos, the leader shouldnt leave because idiots like steven will cause chaos, so I think he'll stay behind, Plus we've seen soooo much of MPK lately, i think we'll follow some others, probably angel, burt, and riley for sure. but if michael isnt on the search mission, he can go around and check on saul
I realize they said he was fine, but he would seem a key person to talk to about Lizzy. Either way, I completely agree about focusing on other characters for a change.
Here's a little food for thought on the whole Lizzie\Mallers situation: Are there any female mallers other than Scratch? If the mallers are all prisoners from Eastern Bay, prisons aren't typically co-ed. We know Scratch is there because she went to break out Latch but she's the only female maller we know of. So now Lizzie is being dragged into a situation that just might rival the Arena is terms of high octane nightmare fuel.
Well, I think they have to have some around in that he had to check if she was one of theirs.If they didn't have any, I doubt they would have to look her up. I say that they do only because the found girl survivors that they forced into their community but other than that, idk.Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKor
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
I guess you’re right about that. That ability to demand leadership, and yell out an order and expect it to be followed is what Angel still lacks. He still doesn’t have the fire. But I guess baby steps, like you said, the first time Angel wondered why he wasn’t leader, it was because he lacked experience, and leadership in the field. He’s gained that part now, but now he lacks Michael and Burt’s fire, and their wanting to do it their way. Well in good time hopefully, he’ll learn this just like he learned everything else. ONE DAY CROWBAR ONE DAY! Hahaaa as for the team up theory, I’m not going so far as a maller/tower team up, I’m pretty annoyed with the Mallers on how they treated lizzy, but I still want a crazy insane all out battle between the colony, the Mallers and the tower and I want a FAT zombie hoard in there too. I don’t care who’s fighting with who really, I just wanna see the biggest fattest battle possible.
Beezball, Saul’s unconscious half the time so that’s prly why Michael didn’t go see him, that and, it might be better to keep lizzy’s departure from saul for as long as possible just to keep him from panicking or doing something stupid, cause he is in a pretty fragile state right now
oh and Yoyo, join my angel fanclub!
Welcome to the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyo
I think you meant "Scratch" instead of "Latch." Latch is Scratch's twin brother. Scratch suggested Lizzy do something for Latch in exchange for the tanker.
EDIT:
Now that I relisten to that part, she didn't specifically say for Latch. She said "... for us." Hmm... I think Lizzy is trouble.
That's the thing. Leaders don't demand leadership. They are given leadership. We saw Marcus demand leadership and it got him killed (lets just assume he is for this argument. I don't want to crack this pandora's box open in this thread). It's not that Angel doesn't have fire, Angel doesn't have the charisma to lead. Angel's intangibles fall behind Michael's in every way. People would do anything for Michael. But as for those intangible, can't quite put your finger on it reasons: nobody would seem to do the same for Angel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra1th
Michael has charisma in spades. Burt even had it, but not as much and he burned through his pretty damn quick with the residents. But for some reason, despite Angel's charming personality and quick wit, his leadership charisma is nearly non-existent.
So about Lizzy!
Who thinks her psycharist skills may come in to play with the Mallers?
Silly Zombiehead.... focusing the topic back to where it's supposed to be as two admins trade haymakers on an unrelated subject.....:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Zombiehead
I think it will have to. she's got the skills in her back pocket, and while it may not help her get any concessions from the Mallers, she might get some invaluable insight into their group psychology.
True enough. But I'm thinking this guy is gonna pop off to Mike before Saul is back on his feet about getting her back.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
[Edit]
Also, I've been waiting for the scenario where somebody gets pushed to the point where they shoot one of the other survivors in the tower. This might push Saul to said point. Doubt it'll happen but it is an event I've been waiting to happen.
I don't see it as happening with Saul. He may be crazy "in like" with Lizzy but not dumb enough to take that action. He would definitely go out to rescue / find her before shooting someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten
After reading all of the paragraphs of posts, I have lost a good sense of what this conversation is about. Are we debating if Angel is a good leader or if Angel will eventually become a leader. I don't mean to intrude on your amazing debate, but this was originally a thread for the Chapter 20 Part 1 episode. I am enjoying reading this all though so please, by all means, continue.
No, you're right. the conversation started about what happened with in the episode with Angel missing another opportunity to lead. It has since devolved into something else altogether. There's a new thread dedicated to this topic now here: http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showt...l-of-the-Tower. I've moved all the posts dedicated to the topic exclusively to that thread. posts that contained chapter 20-1 information are still here in all their glory.Quote:
Originally Posted by NJHellfire
Just want to throw my two cents in on some of the discussions that have been cropping up in this thread. Many of my own sentiments were already kind of echoed by Ra1th, who is obviously a very smart character since I agreed with much of what he had to say.
The Tanya and Saul connection: There did seem to be a bit of foreshadowing with some of Tanya's interest in seeing Saul, so I do understand people wondering if there's a personal connection, but I'm thinking it might be something else. Like maybe from what she's heard, granted it might not be much, she's starting to put two and two together and wonder if what he's struggling with is the infection and that's why she's a bit anxious to see him. It could also be that she's simply a doctor and wants to deal with the patient before settling in. I have doubts about the mother and son connection for several reasons:
1. Hopefully this doesn't come off as bigoted, but I always assumed by her voice, that Tanya is an African American woman. I always imagined Saul as possibly being Latino by his voice. That of course doesn't mean what I hear in possibly the actors actually applies to the characters, but that's part of why I have a hard time imagining the connection.
2. Saul sounds like he was a bit of a troubled kid. We know that he even got in some trouble with the law and had to jump through some hoops to even get in the army. Not that it's in any way beyond the realm of possibility, but would the child of a doctor, who sounds from her relationship with Hope like she'd be a pretty great mom, be a street wise juvenile delinquent? I doubt it.
As for Durai: It's probably already been said by others, but Durai is too much of a bad mother to have just been killed off or booted by the rest of the mallers. The character on the page fueld by the excellent job of the actor that plays him, had enough personality that he came off more as the Darth Vader or even the Emperor of this ship to go so quietly into the night.
I don't know that the show would go into quite this dark of a territory like say, The Road, but in reality, Lizzy, a good looking young woman being abducted and dragged off to a compound of convicts, is pretty damn scary. While I feel for Burt's situation, everyone in that tower needs a shovel in the face for lettting her go out on her own like that. If I was Saul, I'd be done lifting a finger to help anyone there out...
Oh....now you've done it....you made Ra1th happy.....*sigh* ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Robalypse
This came up before on the forums in the If We're Alive Was a TV Show. Though Saul does have occasional a latino flavor in his voice, he is in fact African American.Quote:
1. Hopefully this doesn't come off as bigoted, but I always assumed by her voice, that Tanya is an African American woman. I always imagined Saul as possibly being Latino by his voice. That of course doesn't mean what I hear in possibly the actors actually applies to the characters, but that's part of why I have a hard time imagining the connection.
There are children of privilege running amok all over the place. Saul said he stole things because he needed the money. Perhaps that's because mommy dearest had cut him off to force him to get a job and make a living for himself. Besides, careers in the medical profession can result in less time at home. As Saul hasn't mentioned a father either his wasn't around or was also very busy which means Saul would be left alone...a lot. Giving a kid a lot of time to himself to get in trouble.Quote:
2. Saul sounds like he was a bit of a troubled kid. We know that he even got in some trouble with the law and had to jump through some hoops to even get in the army. Not that it's in any way beyond the realm of possibility, but would the child of a doctor, who sounds from her relationship with Hope like she'd be a pretty great mom, be a street wise juvenile delinquent? I doubt it.
It seems that the jumping through hoops would be a result of him being a convicted criminal. That's what I always thought.
That's a pretty good theory on Saul Nik. I'll buy that for a dollar!
Aww, that made me sad as LA has a big hispanic population and Being hispanic, liked the idea of Saul being Latino. Would it be wrong to still think in my mind he is = OQuote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Other than that, I don't remember the pictures shown to tanya shown Saul face and there would be good reason not to. In case something went wrong, I doubt they would want to show someone the face of one of the tower residents if they didn't have to. In this case, I wouldn't be suprise if Tanya herself was shocked that it was Saul that was sick.
I think we might be reading too much into it though. I won't be suprised if Tanya's apparrent eagerness to see Saul is just for the fact that he's sick. KC may drop such brow raising comments for this exact purpose, to get us to be excited. But then again to just let such a curious tidbit end up being nothing would be pretty crappy. Damn it! Now I'm uncertain about the whole Tanya/Saul situation!
[EDIT] Saul is black? I thought he was Hispanic too. Damn. I'll have to change the image of him I have in my head (Masuka from Dexter, who I know is not Hispanic but still...).
But yeah, I do think Steve is a douche who was looking to take the leadership position away from Bill. He was such a jerk that he called Lizzie out on her lie; that Bert had kicked her out. He was all like, "Nah, Bert didn't say that." I don't think he was saying this to keep Lizzie from getting kicked out, but rather to say that Bert lacked the ability to follow through with rules. Steve seemed to really believe that Lizzie should be kicked out for sleeping on the job. In my book, he's a dick.
Wow, really? Dammit, that messes with my mental visualization of him. Not that it would be at all a concern if I hadn't already firmly established how he looked in my head. Oh well, I'll just pretend I didn't read this so all is safe in my established "We're Alive" headspace. If that is the case though, it certainly shoots down my doubts in that area.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Bah! Stop being right, Nik.Quote:
There are children of privilege running amok all over the place. Saul said he stole things because he needed the money. Perhaps that's because mommy dearest had cut him off to force him to get a job and make a living for himself. Besides, careers in the medical profession can result in less time at home. As Saul hasn't mentioned a father either his wasn't around or was also very busy which means Saul would be left alone...a lot. Giving a kid a lot of time to himself to get in trouble.
Ok, so my doubts are obviously pretty flimsy. I still think from a story perspective it would be a little cliche to have Tanya end up being his mom, but there was that part in season 1 were Saul gave some narration about his mom that seemed like it could have been alluding to her having a further part to play in the future, so maybe that is where it's going. Guess we should be finding out soon...
Never.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robalypse
It may be cliche (and you're not the only one who thinks that), but there's a whole lot of evidence pointing to Tanya and that bit of narration you mentioned (which ended a chapter part too) was pretty tell tale to me that she would come play a role in the series later on down the road.Quote:
Ok, so my doubts are obviously pretty flimsy. I still think from a story perspective it would be a little cliche to have Tanya end up being his mom, but there was that part in season 1 were Saul gave some narration about his mom that seemed like it could have been alluding to her having a further part to play in the future, so maybe that is where it's going. Guess we should be finding out soon...
Another, non-storyline related piece of information to consider is that, like mentioned on WND, Radio Dramas tend to rely on character connections in order to drive the story further.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Despite that, Saul being the closest thing to the Tower having a doctor, and Tanya being a doctor hints towards the link even further, even if finding Hope AND Tanya in the same place is a tad far fetched.
Yeah like wasn't Dauri in charge? Or it must be report to the higher up.Quote:
Originally Posted by timberwoof
Not THAT far-fetched to be found in the same place. Think about this. After the initial wave of people were "converted", there is only a fraction of the population remaining. They must group to provide strength in numbers. The Colony is the largest group we know of with hundreds of people. Seeing as this is the largest group, this is actually almost more likely, as long as they were alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonWisdom
Both good points. I had never considered the connection with Saul seeming to know the most about basic medicine.Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonWisdom
I might be wrong on this but we don't know for sure that Tanya was a doctor BEFORE the zombies. She could just as easily been an ER nurse who's used to dealing with wounds and injuries that are now the primary medical concerns. And after the outbreak anyone with medical training became a doctor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robalypse
You are correct. There was no mention of Saul's mother's profession when he was talking about her way back when. And when you listen to some of Tanya's dialogue it seems to imply that she may not have been a doctor per se before the outbreak. She (I don't think) ever really comes out and says "I was a doctor" but does kind of dance around the topic just a touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKor
I picked up on that too. I initially suspected she was a nurse or PA that just automatically got the doctor title for her medical skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiehead
Z you bring up a good point. But she did operate on Michael's arm that takes a surgeon's skills to re break a bone. No RN or PA could pull that off. I could probably set a bone but I sure has heck couldn't re break one.