Chapter 31 Family Ties part 3

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Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper

You also forgot what weaponry CJ has. The Maller raided Lock and Loaded and Dunbar raided the Army base. Machine guns to Gatling gun doesn't seem fair :)

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they wouldn't have gatling guns, those are typically on aircraft. at most they'd have M203 grenades, maybe AT4s or LAWs, M16/M4s, M249 SAWs, and possibly M240B. nless they grabbed a .50 off of a humvee, the heaviest they would have would be the 7.62 from the 240. they might have 40 mm grenades, but it takes time t learn to use those properly since those are indirect fire weapons. i doubt they would have any kind of rocket system since that wouldn't exactly be necessary for suppressing riots. if they're toting MP5s (which for some reason i feel they are (maybe it's the wat van)) then the weapons they have most likely came from the police station, in which case they would have MP5s (9mm), M4s (5.56mm), Shotguns, smoke and flash grenades... that's about all i'm getting on this one. maybe i'll think of more later. the easiest weapons to put in the hands of anyone and get them fighting woul be the M16/M4, MP5, and shotgun. of course if they made their first stop the maller armory i'm sure they'd find AKs (the most prolific rifle in the world) and those are about as plug and play as you can get.

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Originally Posted by reaper239

they wouldn't have gatling guns, those are typically on aircraft. at most they'd have M203 grenades, maybe AT4s or LAWs, M16/M4s, M249 SAWs, and possibly M240B. nless they grabbed a .50 off of a humvee, the heaviest they would have would be the 7.62 from the 240. they might have 40 mm grenades, but it takes time t learn to use those properly since those are indirect fire weapons. i doubt they would have any kind of rocket system since that wouldn't exactly be necessary for suppressing riots. if they're toting MP5s (which for some reason i feel they are (maybe it's the wat van)) then the weapons they have most likely came from the police station, in which case they would have MP5s (9mm), M4s (5.56mm), Shotguns, smoke and flash grenades... that's about all i'm getting on this one. maybe i'll think of more later. the easiest weapons to put in the hands of anyone and get them fighting woul be the M16/M4, MP5, and shotgun. of course if they made their first stop the maller armory i'm sure they'd find AKs (the most prolific rifle in the world) and those are about as plug and play as you can get.

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O_O' I will take the shiny one......

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Originally Posted by reaper239

the nasty guard armory would not be light on ammo. there would be enough there to pacify large portions of LA. they're not going to have guns and no ammo. when kalani and angel went to the armory it was long after the dunbar raid.

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That would have been m,y expectation too but Angel seemed to think tyhere wasn't much ammo left BEFORE he checked it out with Kalani. He said something along the lines of having used most of it down at the range recently.

Ammo question for military folks. Say, 1000 rounds. That sounds like a lot of bullets to me. Does that transfer over to the military or does 1k rounds seem like a small amount when you take into account firefights and the size of a squad and that kind of stuff. So when Saul says that there wasn't that much ammo at the guard station there could have been like 1k to 5k rounds.

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Originally Posted by GeneTwo

Ammo question for military folks. Say, 1000 rounds. That sounds like a lot of bullets to me. Does that transfer over to the military or does 1k rounds seem like a small amount when you take into account firefights and the size of a squad and that kind of stuff. So when Saul says that there wasn't that much ammo at the guard station there could have been like 1k to 5k rounds.

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In my last unit the "guard ammo" in the arms room consisted of 50 rounds of 45 caliber and 100 rounds of M-16, in magazines, in a locked ammo can. Just enough to provide ammo a single magazine for each member of a small guard detail.

As for whether 1,000 rounds of ammo is a lot, it's relative. It's far more than a foot soldier can comfortably carry, but it's not much at all for an armored vehicle. And don't forget that different rounds have different sizes and weights.

An M-16 magazine, loaded with 30 rounds of 5.56mm ammo, weighs about a pound. 1,000 rounds in magazines is about 34 pounds. A 100 round belt of 7.62mm machinegun ammo weighs about 7 pounds, so 1,000 rounds is about 70 pounds. Ammo weight and bulk add up fast, making it hard for a man to carry on him.

In contrast an M-1 tank has three machineguns (a 50 caliber and two 7.62 mms), and carries over 20,000 rounds of ammo for them. All that ammo weighs close to a ton, but that's not a big deal for a big, powerful vehicle like a tank.

I finally re-listen and remember two things. CJ saying to them "Quiet, children" and the police station remind me of RE 2, since it had the door sound.

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

In my last unit the "guard ammo" in the arms room consisted of 50 rounds of 45 caliber and 100 rounds of M-16, in magazines, in a locked ammo can. Just enough to provide ammo a single magazine for each member of a small guard detail.

As for whether 1,000 rounds of ammo is a lot, it's relative. It's far more than a foot soldier can comfortably carry, but it's not much at all for an armored vehicle. And don't forget that different rounds have different sizes and weights.

An M-16 magazine, loaded with 30 rounds of 5.56mm ammo, weighs about a pound. 1,000 rounds in magazines is about 34 pounds. A 100 round belt of 7.62mm machinegun ammo weighs about 7 pounds, so 1,000 rounds is about 70 pounds. Ammo weight and bulk add up fast, making it hard for a man to carry on him.

In contrast an M-1 tank has three machineguns (a 50 caliber and two 7.62 mms), and carries over 20,000 rounds of ammo for them. All that ammo weighs close to a ton, but that's not a big deal for a big, powerful vehicle like a tank.

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Boo-yeah! Cabbage Patch for the win (oh, how I hate using that phrase though... FTW used to mean something else to me. But alas, I'm old.)

And for some of you, imagine how little 1000 rounds of vulcan ammo would be. Not size-wise, but how quickly it could be spent. And then compare that to 1000 rounds for a desert eagle or an old six-shooter.

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Originally Posted by GeneTwo

Ammo question for military folks. Say, 1000 rounds. That sounds like a lot of bullets to me. Does that transfer over to the military or does 1k rounds seem like a small amount when you take into account firefights and the size of a squad and that kind of stuff. So when Saul says that there wasn't that much ammo at the guard station there could have been like 1k to 5k rounds.

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I'm not military, but 1000, 5000, doesn't sound like a lot to me. lol.

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

In my last unit the "guard ammo" in the arms room consisted of 50 rounds of 45 caliber and 100 rounds of M-16, in magazines, in a locked ammo can. Just enough to provide ammo a single magazine for each member of a small guard detail.

As for whether 1,000 rounds of ammo is a lot, it's relative. It's far more than a foot soldier can comfortably carry, but it's not much at all for an armored vehicle. And don't forget that different rounds have different sizes and weights.

An M-16 magazine, loaded with 30 rounds of 5.56mm ammo, weighs about a pound. 1,000 rounds in magazines is about 34 pounds. A 100 round belt of 7.62mm machinegun ammo weighs about 7 pounds, so 1,000 rounds is about 70 pounds. Ammo weight and bulk add up fast, making it hard for a man to carry on him.

In contrast an M-1 tank has three machineguns (a 50 caliber and two 7.62 mms), and carries over 20,000 rounds of ammo for them. All that ammo weighs close to a ton, but that's not a big deal for a big, powerful vehicle like a tank.

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Relative, that's a good way to look at it. From what I understand, that's one of the main reasons the US adopted the 5.56 rd as opposed to the larger (and of course heavier) 7.62x39 rd, to allow soldiers to carry more ammo.
When you say 7.62, that's 7.62x51mm (or .308) right?
Also, doesn't the military downloaded M-16 mags to 29rds?

Relating that back to WA. Back when Michael, and the others escaped The Colony, Victor, Pegs, and Kelly raid the weapons and grab "all the ammo". At best, they could have only carried a couple thousand rounds between the 3 of them. With a compound as large as The Colony, they should have had tens, if not hundreds of thousands of rounds between what they could scavenge and surely they would set up some type of ammo production facility. All they would need is a few loading presses and the raw materials.

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Originally Posted by Condor

When you say 7.62, that's 7.62x51mm (or .308) right?
Also, doesn't the military downloaded M-16 mags to 29rds?

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Yes, 7.62 NATO, AKA 7.62 x 51 or .308 Winchester.

With M-16 magazines you're talking about are the "20 round" aluminum magazines that were issued during the Vietnam War. They were still in circulation when I entered the service, and it was an old-sergeant's tale that you should never put more than 19 rounds into one to keep them from jamming. The 30 round aluminum magazines that replaced them were fine with 30 rounds, as are the more modern plastic magazines that are rapidly replacing them.

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Originally Posted by Condor

Back when Michael, and the others escaped The Colony, Victor, Pegs, and Kelly raid the weapons and grab "all the ammo". At best, they could have only carried a couple thousand rounds between the 3 of them. With a compound as large as The Colony, they should have had tens, if not hundreds of thousands of rounds between what they could scavenge...

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It does strike me as odd that the Colony would be so short of ammunition that a few people could carry off their reserves. We know the Colony cleaned out the County Sheriff's office, and I assume they also emptied the Police Department HQ next door. Of course we don't know how much ammo they had to use to secure the Colony at the start of the outbreak.