This episode broke my heart.
But on a discussion note, I think Tanya is wrong. I really do. Tanya, Saul, and now apparently Datu are immune. There is no such thing as an ultra-slow turner.
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"Datu is going to die."
.....Happy Holidays Everyone
ARE YOU FREEKING KIDDING ME?
I think we're in for a gut wrenching chapter here.
First thing: Datu's Matta Gun actually worked. He took down the little one that attack, but just got overrun by a bunch of regulars. I think we'd all assumed it was a failure but it looks like it is going to be a viable weapon, in the right situations.
And now for the big stuff:
It looks like this chapter is going to be a long journey. Datu is bit and is slowly turning, but he's still going strong at the end, so I'm guessing this is going to get drawn out until the end of part 3 at least.
But the thing is, we really haven't seen major characters die in this sort of long, drawn out, fashion before. Tommy turned suddenly, Kalani went out in a blaze of glory, and Angel lingered a little but died pretty suddenly from Scratch's bullet. I hope if Datu does go out, he doesn't linger. That would just be torture to hear.
I can see this all playing out in one of two ways: Datu hangs in there long enough for Tanya to realize his K18 levels have frozen in place the same way hers and Saul's have, causing her to wonder if there isn't some similarities between all of them. And then either:
1) She figures out some kind of breakthrough to save Datu as well as Saul and herself or...
2) Datu looks to be out of the woods and then turns suddenly, shocking everyone and leaving Tanya to wonder if the same thing is going to happen to her and Saul.
It really depends on if KC wants to give us a light at the end of the tunnel or if he want to kick us in the gut with a sudden main character death. But, like I said, I just can't imagine Datu going out in a slow, lingering, inevitable death, I think there's gonna be some twists and turns in there.
I kept thinking about that too until they mentioned the scratches and the bite (On the neck no less). He goes into shock (or something like it) rather easily. I'm hoping that Datu's fainting-goat syndrome might save him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognaurd
"I've been in his shoes. I remember all too well.", "People can still be useful after they've been bitten." Tanya is making this personal, with good reason.
Kinda funny how Jay ended up getting killed by the reallyfuckingheavyomatic...
...I really need to listen to this episode some more times before I can put my thoughts together. But at least the Mata-gun worked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnex
I don't think it's that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
I liked her a lot when we first met her. She may have been controlling at Dunbar with Saul and Victor, but she made decisions that kept them safe...for the most part. Did they make any progress? Not really, but stayed safe.
Now, the "rescue Lizzy and save the colony" plan is where a lot of her faults started appearing. Good on paper, bad in practice.
Then as she runs the colony, with more people then she has had under her command, more problems arise. More leadership is needed and instead of delegating, she keeps it all to herself with her micromanaging.
In this episode, she actually pulled up her big girl panties and let the people around her know the situations as they are...which she should have done long ago. When she did that, they understood. They acted. They worked as a TEAM. Even poor Datu worked knowing he could be gone at any moment, because he finally understood WHY it was important.
Still hate CJ, but hate her less. If she acts like that more often, I'll start the CJ fan club.
wow...what a punch in the balls.
I knew this was a possibility, but damn. this one was painful to listen to.
good on micheal for calling out cj. and good on cj for actually acting like a human. ya know, maybe if that happened a little more often all the hate she gets here wouldn't happen. a good leader shouldn't show weakness, but showing compassion for those around you is not a sign of weakness. its a sign of strength. the strongest, most stoic leaders are probly the most compassionate. not that anyone would ever know.
but that's all a candle in the wind compared to DATU> JEEBUS KC, YOU ACTUALLY DID IT.
I agree.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
"Datu is Going to Die!" "Next Episode will be delayed" "Happy Holidays from the We're Alive Crew!"
REALLY?!?!?!?!
Time to return all these christmas gifts I bought them all.....!!!!!!!
Since I haven't listened and I refuse to search through the thread to see who may have done it: Thanks for changing the thread title!
Well, still in a bit of shock even after two weeks. The entire spectrum is open for Datu. KC could have him go into super slowmo mode like Saul and Tanya. Maybe he is dies or even defects and joins team Ink and or Randy. We just do not know.
But, what was the purpose of the attack originally? Was it just wandering damage? That an inkling thought it could turn two humans? Food? My thought after 40-3 was it was an attack on water resource. That failed too, if it was the plan. I am pretty sure I heard something run away in 40-3. Was it out of fear? No gun truck, but the pesky humans were still able to kill an inkling. If a normal ran away, that is actually good news. We did not hear it get called away and it was not acting like a mindless eating machine. If it values its own life, than it can be bargained with. It is a start.
You know what makes this episode so gut wrenching to me. It reminds of the time time I got bad news about my dog's health.
What are the options?
Will she get better?
How long does she have?
Is she in pain?
Do we let nature take its course?
When do we say good bye?
How can we think about these things when she seems to be OK?
What's going on in her mind?
How can you say Good Bye when you might be the one sending them away?
You feel extremely protective, never want to leave their side, you want to squeeze as many life-times as possible into each minute, and you feel awkward at having control over how long they have before nature takes over.
It was King Datu the resourceful. Buries his friends, digs his own grave, fixes the pump and changes the chapter title. He looks out for us!Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Great episode - and guys: Datu is not dead until he is dead. A brave little man.
Well, a short remark about CJ: in my opinion, I did not expect her to know so much about most of the colony's inhabitants biographies because most of CJ's recent conversations at the colony (season 4 timeframe) went not too well. So, "counselor" CJ seems to do most of her "Get-to-know" meetings in between the episodes.
Heavy heart. Out of all of the shit the guy has been through. I thought he would be one of the ones to make it to the end.
I will have a Beer tonight in Honor of King Datu: The Resourceful.
As mentioned. If he has to go out. He deserves a whole chapter about it.. Man the gut wrencher will be when Hope finds out.
Or it could have been a smart one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognaurd
Somehow I keep thinking that the Inklings are being used as Ink's version of the gun trucks for the various zombie missions.
For me is part this, part what KC says, especially I find it hard to forget or accept that had she had her way she would have sentenced Vic and Saul to death. The whole "like that matters to me" speech. So... nice emotional speech about Glenn sons, and Jay's girlfriend, I guess they are worth more than Saul's still not born child and girlfriend.Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalJHP
It's however interesting to get a commwnt from the writer to get an insight in what are the expectations on our reactions to the characters and story.
I just LOVE CJ. Her real tragic flaw is letting her personal issues get in the way.
Dammit... Dammit...Dammit.
I haven't been upset over an episode in a long long time. Like I want to cry kinda episode. Hands down this may be the toughest episode of the series. It would be different if he would have been attacked and died. Fell from a window. This is just rough. My first thought was "God... what about Hope?". That is the father in me coming out though.
Nope. No. Nope.
What I want to know is why everyone is freaking out so badly that Datu is going to die/is dying whereas Tanya and Saul are no big worry. They all know that Tanya was bit, but they aren't fretting that she's going to turn any minute.... With the way Robbins and co. are acting you'd think they couldn't handle being around Tanya too.... Something is just off that way for me.
I'm guess Hope will become CJ's new Padawan. Continue her training in becoming not like by the forum. Remember the last time we saw Hope?
If Datu has a some sort if immunity, then what could be the reason for it? So could the family immunity or the medication Tanya and Saul took may not be why?
Hi everyone.
About CJ:
I don'T hate her. I simply don't like her because of the way she treats people around. She keeps a lot of things to herself instead of realizing the opportunities to put weight on many shoulders. And when things go bad, she does not realize that part of the blame is to be put onto herself. It is a devil's circle, if you like.
BUT - and that is very important for me that anyone here understands this: I don't put more blame on CJ than she deserves. I especially do not draw conclusions like "because her attitute or demeanor is bad, she is responsible for anything going bad". The opposite is true. I really did not understand why Michael freaked out and pulled CJ from her one leg in order to show her what happened to Jay, Glenn, and Datu; and I don't accept him to blame CJ for anything that happened at the wind-mill-pumping station. And this applies for many smaller or bigger things - especially the fall of Dunbar: CJ was not responsible for that,
In my opinion it is very true that CJ plans for her safety. But many (if not all) of her plans are about saving others as well - at least because she understands that humans as a breed or species may only survive because single persons cannot survive on his or her own. CJ has understood this, and she was and still is willing to take the responsibility by making people act together - how fucking cold-blooded or harsh this may ever turn out.
The discussion I had with Kc was about CJ telling and forcing Michael to understand that she knows the people a lot better than he does; and she concludes that therefore she cares a lot more about the individuals of the Colony than Michael does. Her speech obviously was impressive enough for Michael to shut the f*ck up. And I even actually agree with her, but I am not convinced about what she says. Because that scene reminded me of a dialogue from the movie "Good Will Hunting": "You may have read how the smell of the Sistine Chapel underneath the paintings of Michealangelo is in a book; but this is totally different from having experienced this yourself." CJ tells Michael that she knows a lot of facts about the members of the Colony; but I don't see the human spirit of CJ's guiding her in her decisions. This is different from Michael: Michael knows shit about the people around him - probably his biggest flaw; but all his decisions are based on what people see in the uniform he wears. It was Michael who told Saul and Angel to wear the uniform in order to help people find out who are the good guys; and ever since Michael did only act and think on behalf helping or supporting others, and he let everyone know and made most people get involved as well. CJ simply yells orders, and people start doing things behind her back, when they find a moment in which they don't feel observed ... So, in other words, CJ pulls people together, but she has no skills in making people start feeling responsible for each other and caring for each other, which in return leads to misbehaviour and maybe even distrust (people left Dunbar because of CJ's treatments).
Hard to put it in English words, if you are not a native speaker. But I hope I was able to point you at my opinion about CJ. I don't hate her, I only do not like her. And I don't like blaming her for shit hitting the fan if these things are beyond her decisions ...
Best wishes!
Liam
SpeculationQuote:
Originally Posted by katlero
The assay. Tanya is able to measure how fast the K18 levels change. Her level and Saul's level may be elevated, but change very slowly over the months since they were exposed. She has a few measurements from Datu and can see that it is elevated within minutes to hours.
The natural progression is a final destination of change, but like Burt says, prepare for the worse and hope for the best. Throughout history there is often a small population of people that can resist the disease. I can see it play out lots of different ways. Datu is fine. Datu has a partial change and recovers like a stroke victim. Datu dies, Datu escapes and joins ink. All of these are interesting and can drive the story forward.
Well it's still kinda up in the air as to whether Saul was actually infected or not as far as everyone else is concerned (Remember Tanya and Saul are keeping their elevated K18 levels to themselves), and Tanya was exposed nearly a year ago. So everyone just assumes that Saul and Tanya weren't infected since so much time has passed, but Datu's situation is happening right now in front of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by katlero
For me this episode is so damn gut wrenching, 'cause currently I am willing to say that this is probably the really most awesome and most outstanding episode I have ever listened to. I was kind of surprised when the episode has ended; and then I realized: these were damn 28 minutes straight ... But they ran like an NOS-fueled super-turbo-charged Ford Mustang ... No clue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
R2Da2 is a character who really had a lot of trouble becoming liked by the WA fans; and during the last chapters he really had very little to say or to add to the show. And yet he was/ is considered to be one of the personality pillars of this show; and now that pillar has huge cracks in it, so maybe we will see it crushing to the ground sooner than later.
Tomorrow I may have different thoughts about it. But right now I don't remember any other chapter or episode (except for the hilarious firetruck-scene maybe) that left me as speech- and breathless as this one ...
edit: no, tomorrow is now, and I have not changed my mind at all ... /edit
Really fine storytelling, and dialogue-writing, and foley- as well as background-music-work ...
Best wishes!
Liam
Doh,
Good point. Most of the people do not know about the assay. One serving of crow, since I did not hear any this episode...
UGH!
Going back to for a third listen after reading the forums. The happy go lucky host gator music is jarring! Lol
I think it is because the extent of their infections wasn't really known until long after they would have turned. Datu was recently bitten so a turn for him seems like it could be immanent. However, I wonder if anyone else in the Colony knew Tanya was bitten before she escaped with Micheal, Pegs and Kelly.Quote:
Originally Posted by katlero
Yeah, I thought he as feeling sheepish for not being taken out by a bad-ass Inkling.Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyhind86
OK, so Jay walks away without attacking Datu. Presumably because Datu was exposed. But do the other bitters avoid Saul and Tanya? Since their exposures, they have only been attacked in the presence of other humans who might be the real targets, EXCEPT: Randy snatching Tanya and the Inkling attacking Saul. Have they been attacked or chased by any regulars, by themselves?
Holy Smoke!!! On my iPod this looks like a puff of smoke. This is the clearest picture of an Abominable Behemoth, yet. Water pumping station anyone?
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-cont...ec15-FINAL.jpg
Sooo....i wonder whats datu's blood type?
hmm.
CJ make Micheal finally tell us the water pumping station story! Or may he tells Datu the story to keep him focus throughout the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor