... Uh... umm.... *Coughs*Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
That's what I said! <_<
<3
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... Uh... umm.... *Coughs*Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
That's what I said! <_<
<3
I just have to say it, I think I finally...ONE TIME, called a prediction dead on (or damn close to it)
In the 37-2 thread I implied pretty much exactly what happened regard CJ and Michael (link to post: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...ll=1#post63512 ) :
Maybe the use of 'perfect synchronicity' was a little off, but I felt after the last year and half plus of predictions, I finally got one kind of right! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
All that aside, a few of us thought CJ or Michael would try to split us up between dunbar and a few safe houses to keep numbers low, but it looks like CJ wants to stick to the Colony (so far). I can't imagine everyone let Saul/Victor go by themselves. Lizzy wouldn't let him go, but she needs the hostpital/care of a doctor. Tanya wouldn't let Saul leave again, but she has a sort of moral duty to the hospital/colony. I would think Michael wouldn't let them go it alone again, but CJ and he have an understanding right now. Burt and Riley are looking to go it alone, so they'd prolly go out with Saul/Victor for some Mad Max action
I guess at the 'end of the week' there is going to be quite the falling out. We may still get the 'spread out small numbers' we thought were gonna happen, but not by plan, by circumstance. I think Michael would follow Saul/Victor, but so would Tanya and Lizzie, but can they? Either we get some resolution and everyone stays at the Colony and plan together, or we have 2 factions again, with the only Tower people I see willing to stay at the colony without Michael as being......Pegs.
Forgot to mention Datu, he's Wreck-It Michael's Fix-It Datu, so they have to stick together (god I hope that reference doesnt fall on deaf ears)
Edit: Forgot to add all the military guys....they're gonna follow whatever Michael does through and through. Also, Kelly....I forsee some more "Burt" action from Kelly, I think she actually sticks by Michael finally.
Congrats to the newly weds! Who did Kc marry btw? Congrats anyhow!
Anyone else feel that the art work for this chapter was misleading? I suppose the colony was in chaos when they arrived though, but still. I figured I was going to see chaos and fire in this episode.
My thoughts on CJ havent changed. Shes brilliant, but a bullheaded and immature. Always lashes out whenever shes emotionally challenged, which I must admit is a trait I see in many people in my day to day but shes obviously the overreacting queen in the story so far.
I have issues accepting that CJ would actually dismiss Saul and Vic simply because she ought to be aware of the brotherhood of the original tower crew. To think that Saul and Vic are supposed to somehow leave and go to Dunbar with out the others asking why? That seems a bit far fetched to me. Not from CJs stand point, but a writing perspective, then again CJ is an overreacting dullard at times.
I put my vote in that most, if not all of the original tower crew end up at Dunbar. For one, its probably way better armed and set up and hidden and to our knowledge; no maller is aware of it. For two Michael has got a small platoon and wants to bring the fight to the Z, Riley and Burt want to kill Scratch, and Im sure the rest of the tower crew feels the same.
Now another agonizing two weeks!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
I'm with you; I think Tanya will go with family first before anything else.
Also would Hope know CJ?
Yeah, my jaw dropped when I heard that number... and I was driving down a highway too, so I might have swerved a bit. I didn't expect more than 30 to 35... yeah, I have no idea how I came to those numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by fredrum
Thats a good question. I think Hope knows CJ, I do not think CJ knows Hope. She is the Queen and I do not think she mixed with the people. Hope will get her sight back and tell a lot of horror stories about CJ in charge. SKittles did talk about "bad people" Angel assumed he ment the mallers. CJ could plan, but frankly she gave me the creeps even when she was talking about herself in the other tower. How much worse will it be if someone else tells the story?Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
Its pretty obvious that Michael and his troops will leave the second he finds out that Saul and Victor got the boot. Maybe CJ doesn't understand that Saul, Michael and Victor are all close friends (especially Saul and Michael)? Either way the second Mike finds out about Saul and Vic he's gone and so are the troops with him. I have a bad feeling it will come to blows between Michael leaving and the Colony. But all because CJ got butthurt the colony will lose all their military personnel, Datu, their main doctor (Tanya will go where Saul goes) not to mention Riley and Burt are going to leave on their own. Pegs will more than likely stay (screw her anyways) and Kelly will go with Victor (don't forget they have something going on between them).
I agree with everyone that this is going to turn into a 3 part story
1.) Michael, Saul, Victor, Robbins, Puck, Carl, Mulldoone (SP), Datu, Tanya, Kelly, Hope and whoever else joins them at Dunbar
2.) Riley and Burt and whoever else joins them on Operation-Kill the fuck out of Scratch
3.) CJ, Pegs, Glenn and the colonists at the Colony
The biggest question is will the Colony and Dunbar get along? Or KC could throw us a loop and have CJ decide to let Victor and Saul stay as soon as she realizes Michael and crew will leave if they don't? CJ is too stubborn in my opinion, I think there might be bad blood between the two groups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
Immediately revising my thoughts....I think Michael actually decides to let this one play out. On top of CJ playing both sides (colony vs michael), I think Michael will play both sides (CJ vs our mucho macho terrible two-some). He maintains talks with the Dunbar and establishes an 'escape plan' for people in his inner circle for if/when shit hits the fan in the Colony. Since Michael has the knowledge of "bigger numbers are more dangerous", he knows he needs an escape plan. He'll basically use Dunbar as a forward operating base, and plan out an offensive from it. He'll get storages of supplies from the Colony and do what he can to keep the peace, but maintain Dunbar as the next step. He wont leave the Colony strapper to live like the first time he left...but he will set up his crew in the long run. All this time sharing/broadening intel with CJ. Learning what else she knows about the cracks and stuff, and using it from Dunbar
Edit: Credit to REZombie, he pretty much said exactly what I just said 2 pages earlier...I should've finished all the comments before posting, whoops.
I think Michael is too hot headed and will leave with Saul, Michael is certainly the type to say "F you" to people who make him angry. He might use the strategy to lure CJ into maintaining a peaceful relationship with them, but when all is said and done Michael wont abandon Saul and Victor, especially because Tanya, Hope and Lizzy will follow Saul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
By strategy I mean, Michael will help support the Colony and protect it if CJ will help support and protect them at Dunbar
See (the end of) post here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...ll=1#post62600Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
But ignore the very end of that post, as it was WAY off regarding pegs, lol
Now gimmie back that hat :tinfoil:
Throughout the entire chapter, Puck reminds me of a stereotypical Army E-4. And to KC, I mean that in a good way.
I like the theories that the helicopter leaves with Saul and Victor (and others), but Michael and crew said that the helo is only at about half a tank on fuel. That makes me think that they'll have to stop at LAX or somewhere similar to get more fuel at some point. Also, while it may be possible to land the helo at Dunbar Apartments, it wouldn't be hard to spot a helicopter flying around and trying to figure out where it landed if you're in the vicinity. I don't think Scratch and company are there, but what if the helicopter makes it to Dunbar Apartments and a Maller scout see the helo flying by and figures out where it lands?
Also, and this is a personal preference, but I want Muldoon to step up a little bit more. Maybe he's a WOJ and doesn't feel like he should fill a role or something.
My issue with only Pegs staying behind, I think we lose the narrative. She will doubtfully continue to journal her days at the colony, perhaps CJ will document things, but do we get her perspective without any other Towerites to hear/read it? I think Michael 'keeps the peace' for awhile in his first ever successful long-term plan, hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyZombified
I think he'll get his 'eff you' a little more elaborately is all. He sets up Dunbar to be the long-term escaple plan as the ultimate "eff you" to CJ. Also, you have to remember CJ said "this stays between us" so Victor/Saul could paint this as their plan to go to Dunbar....not that they're exiled. Michael could use that as a jumping off point to say "oh yea...Dunbar...that might be a good idea, go check it out and I'll keep you guys in the know"Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyZombified
There are no long term plans in Zombie land! I don't know, I think we wont see much of Pegs this season until maybe closer to the end. I think this season will primarily be a militaryesque story with lots of fighting and the main focus being on Michael and Gang and Burt/Riley kill Scratch fest. I think the Colony will fall after Michael leaves and the survivors will end up at Dunbar feeling like idiotsQuote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
Just read your other post, I think you make a great point there. Maybe Saul and Victor will play it off as their "plan" but what about Lizzy? You think she is going to except Saul straight leaving right before his child is born? In the end we all know Michael will find out one way or another that CJ exiled Saul and Victor and when he finds out he will leave.
That's my exact point, if ONLY pegs stays behind, I don't think we hear how the colony falls, or what happens there otherwise, because we won't hear anything from her in general. 2 reasons, she doesn't have much to add for now, and she probably isn't writing in her journal. And I think we have some more to learn from CJ still, so someone has to stay behind that's WORTH listening to....so I think (read: I HOPE) Michael stays behind and puts together the Plan B for ToweritesQuote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyZombified
So listened to the episode twice, with a nap in between listens of course. I've got to say that CJ isn't hitting it off with any of the survivors anymore. Since I haven't seen it, and I believe this will happen, Michael will convince CJ to let Saul and Victor stay. CJ says they have till the end of the week to leave, giving Michael plenty of time to bargain for Saul and Victor. I'm seeing a "no them, no me" situation brewing that CJ will have to cave since she "needs Michael's military experience". I do think that Riley and Burt are going to be our B story for a little while (till they kill Scratch).
Just to set the story right, Victor didn't lie to CJ initially. He said the people who killed Sean were at the colony, he didn't say it was the Mallers until CJ asked directly.
Well, to the best of our knowledge it was a zombie wave attack that killed Sean and his team. All we hear is a radio announce the wave, Victor, Mchael etal run for cover. The next day Pete says they got Sean's group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3_T3ch
EDIT. I want to clarify this. Pegs overheard the conspiracy. Anything she knew would not get to Saul. He was out of the tower again before being able to compare notes. How much would Victor remember of what Pegs said? I cannot remember how much she says to victor.
To Hoff4D: :tinfoil: Wear it with honor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
I hope not. That would be too much like Lizzy leaving the Tower. Don't want to her that story again any more than I wanted to hear Burt telling CJ a story about tuna fish sammiches. Maybe they'll tell Lizzy and she'll use her experience in exile to put a big fat no on the plan. Also, I wonder if the Colonists excluded Lizzy from the vote. Do they consider her a resident or Maller?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
I think they saw a pregnant woman and were happy that she was at least treat well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
But I do think this will force Michael out of his shell and talk that he feel that they should stay.
I agree, it would not make sense any other way: I can see a lot of history repeating here. Michael at the Colony, Saul in need somewhere else, people in charge in the Colony keeping Michael from helping his friend... it's The Catalyst all over again.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyZombified
I just love all the "I hate CJ, now" comments! How they make me lol. I seriously can't be the only one who always thought she was a self-interested (maybe even self-obsessed?), dislikeable character. It always seemed to me she kept Saul and Victor around purely because she wanted to get with Saul and he wasn't going to allow her to kick Victor out.
To say that I felt someone should give her a good smack to knock her out and tie her to the bed would be an understatement.
I can't wait until they all realize exactly what kind of person she really is, as Saul and Victor already have.
***
Oh, and congratulations are in order for the newlyweds! Did it sink in yet, or are you guys still thinking, "Oh, yeah, that's right we're married!:D:excited:"?
Wait til Tanya find out and you may get your wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by thisonegirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisonegirl
But but but, I loveded CJ. How could I have been so wrong? Maybe it was that sexy voice. CJ </3
Finally I get to listen to this week's episode!
Note to self: Never get stuck running around St. Louis on a Monday! I've been jonesing all day here!
Alright now on to the episode. I gotta admit I never figured the whole Sean revelation was going to amount to much. And I was damn sure wrong! Now we got another case of splitting the party. It seems like everyone's gotten their opinions in on who's gonna go where, so I'll throw in my two cents:
So we got Saul and Victor going into exile at Dunbar. There is no way I can ever envision Saul leaving Lizzy behind, so unless she flat out refuses to leave, which I don't see as likely, Lizzy's going up to Dunbar as well.
I'm really not sure what Tanya's gonna do. Lizzy's going to need a doctor but will Tanya up and leave everyone at the Colony behind, even if it is for her grandchild? She did do it before, but that was when Marcus was ruling like a dictator and things were falling apart in Gatekeeper's coup. Now that the Colony is under a sort of democratic rule under CJ, maybe Tanya will feel compelled to stay and look after everyone. I really see it as a coin toss.
Michael's a coin toss too. He might see Saul and Victor getting kicked out and say "Screw this! I'm taking my ball and leaving!" (the "ball" is this case being a helicopter and loads of military equipment and weapons) Or he might let Saul and Victor go off and let them set up shop in Dunbar and act as the eyes and ears in L.A. Ultimately I think what Michael does depends on how Saul breaks the news to him. Because Michael's first reaction is going to be "Screw this!" but I think Saul's gonna try to smooth things over and tell him to stay.
And on a final note: I think I just fell in love with Riley all over again. You all can keep Scratch and her "Better start running." Cause Riley's voice when she let out that "then fuck them!" got my engine revving! Let the Scratch hunt begin!
Oh and a final final note: Congrats to KC and Blaire! May you live a long, happy life together and have fat babies and do whatever it is you married people do!
Ah, but this is where her inexperience as a puppet master shows up. Yes, she did say that. But, she calls for Max, and then tells Saul and Victor that they have until the end of the week. Max knows she just stabbed two of the saviors in the back. From My Generation, Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Come on Max, play ball and nip this powergrab in the bud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
I'm not necessarily into the "I hate CJ" club; she has to act the ass to get things done. Some planners have charisma; some have the ability to negotiate. Some just have an asshole attitude and know how to use it in order to get things done. CJ is doing what needs to be done to survive... crap, I'm now thinking of how Survivor and Big Brother work.
We also haven't learned (unless my pre-alzheimer's kicked in) what CJ did before the outbreak. We all speculate that she was SWAT, yet, she didn't know how to clear a room. I'm not saying she was like General Bethlehem in the Postman, who had some unrelated job to the current position, but I bet she had something to do with planning and implementing.
Ok, my thoughts are all over the place, but while CJ has done some "Richard Cranium" moves, I can empathize with her exiling Saul and Victor. She wasn't expecting to lose anything and now the zombies have one leg up on her (drum noise please). And even though she is most likely doing the leader thing for her own self-preservation, it will benefit everyone who stays at the colony.
Besides, she was once "crazy cat lady," she needs a hobby and collecting baseball cards has already been taken.
First things first: Congrats Mr and Mrs Kc!!!!
Now, on to other things.....
I figured we were getting ready to choose up sides, I just wasn't expecting the Sean revelation to be the impetus for it. Honestly, I had just about forgotten about the events surrounding Sean and his death. Well played, Kc.
So, CJ plays smart and gets control of the Colony. Even does a good job of smoothing things with Tanya. Then goes into trainwreck mode with Saul and Victor... mainly Victor.... Then tries to pull it together with Michael.
Leading up to that, we get resolution of the heated conversation between Michael and Victor. They are buddies now. Michael pulls in Saul and tells him about Angel before anyone else. That solidifies Saul and Michael again. Puck;s comment about being excluded was an interesting one. I don't think it foreshadows a split between Michael and his Irwinite buddies. But an interesting line nonetheless...
The Burt/Riley scene was just what we needed. I've been missing the heck out of both of them. As soon as Burt revealed that Rilay was at Angel's grave, I could see exactly how the scene was gonna play out. It just had to. The key will now be in the "how will they execute on this" details...
Where does this leave us?
No way Saul keeps it all to himself. I don't buy that he will willingly decide to split up with Lizzie and leave her in the Colony. But he definitely won't be wild about traipsing her around Zombieland in her condition. I think Saul will have to tell Lizzie the truth about leaving. Lizzie will share it elsewhere and Michael will get the real story. Victor might even share some info, just in time for once, that CJ had designs on Saul. This might help motivate Lizzie....
I don't buy that Michael just decides to hang out in the Colony once he learns more about CJ's modus operandi. He has no loyalty to her and hanging at the Colony doesn't further his desires to avoid big groups to be attacked or take the fight to the zombies. And since the Colony peeps obviously have no loyalty to Michael, even have animosity in some cases, once Michael learns about Dunbar he will be chomping at the bit to get back into the fight.
To quote my favorite TV show (Firefly, of course). Inara is speaking about Mal and says "You're lost in the woods. We all are. Even the captain. The only difference is, he likes it that way." And Mal chimes in: "The only difference is, the woods are the only place I can see a clear path."
I see this being Michael's mindset now. In the fight, he feels like he's in the right place. Like he's making a difference and doing what he is supposed to do. He doesn't have to deal with the hard stuff in the "real world". Michael gets to be a soldier with other soldiers.
So, I see one split happening in the immediate future:
To Dunbar with Saul, Lizzie, Victor, Michael, Puck, Carl, Muldoon, and Robbins
In the Colony: CJ, Pegs, Kelly, Glenn and Colony crew
To be determined (either Dunbar or Colony)
Tanya, Datu, and Hope - Tanya wil be torn between Saul/Baby and the patients of the Colony (including CJ). Datu will want to go with Michael but will not want Hope to go into danger - Datu will not leave Hope.
Burt and Riley - They will side with (temporarily) which ever group seem to give them the best chance at revenge on Scratch. I'm leaning 75% to the Colony for now.
The helicopter - no good way to take it back up into LA but no desire to leave it in the Colony. May go, like someone else put it earlier, to LAX. But that may mean leaving it unattended for long stretches of time.
Ok, enough for now. I may have to recant some or all of this later....
Also - Great catch on the Crow, Grognaurd! I missed i completely....
congrats to Mr & Mrs Wayland :)
great chapter end to set the scene... :)
personally, CJ, one of my favourite characters is shooting herself in her only foot. (har de har har!). Everyone's comments seem to be all around the same track and I dont think mine will be any different.
The exile is definitely going to cause a rift between all the characters.. Saul and Vicky are going to go swanning off to Dunbar, their "family" for want of a better word are going to remain loyal and follow on, Datu, Hope, Kelly(she'll follow Vick, that ole charmer) with of course the exception of Burt and Riley, the dynamic duo.
Tanya and Lizzy are a tough one.. how far along now is Lizzy? 7? 8 months? she can still move around but will the trip to Dunbar be too much? will Tanya prefer to keep them there with the hospital facilities that are available at the colony? or will she protect her own child and take all the med supplies.. as Tanya pointed out during her argument with CJ.. caring for people is not her Job, she's not being forced to do it, it's not her "role". its her choice.. so when forced to choose between unknown hurt people and your own child?.. sorry.. my kin wins every time.
Michael will more than likely side with his friends over the colonists who hold a grudge. Michael doesn't seem to be the type to want to mend bridges with people he has no affiliation with. He only went back to teh colony because Saul managed to call him.. so once Michael goes.. his soldiers will go. Their loyalties were established last chapter.. if the soldiers go.. so does the helicopter, heavy weaponry and all the strategical advantage the colonists may have in their defense..
For a planner, CJ isn't doing too well.. her downfall is her bedside manner and social skills.. she's ruled by her own selfishness, self preservation and ability to let emotion cloud her judgement. Cj has this habit of very easily pushing away all those close to her.. can you count any friends that she has? and Tanya didn't cripple her, it was her own rashness that led to it and the death of the poor redshirt girl that accompanied her.
sounds like Nurse Britt needs to get in there and whoop some butt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
haha Peg Leg with CJ.. i see what yoo did thar!!
Max is in the wiki for making a few appearances in season 3 :P helping hope and being one of the ones observed filling the water truck
Interesting responses and theories... Some I didn't expect, and some I did. Thank you all for your congrats! Mrs W and I are reading your comments by the pool in Florida :) see you all again soon!
Congrats dude! Now tell me everything that's going to happen, I don't mind being spoiled!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
That's the one thing about Saul and Victor leaving and pretending like it's their own choice to protect CJ. It just wont make sense, especially to those closest to them. Why would Saul randomly decide to leave right before his first child is born? It's all going to come out and quickly, that's why CJ's butthurt attitude is going to doom the colony. Michael isn't the type to bend over and take anything. He'll give CJ and the Colony a big old "Fuck You". Its not like the Colonists even like him and they've made it clear they blame Michael for everything. It seems like CJ and the Colonists are a match made in Heaven. Selfish, ignorant, unable to see the big picture. The Colony will fall, not COULD fall but WILL fall.
And after it falls, the survivors will all run to Michael at Dunbar for protection and although Michael will obviously welcome them with open arms something deep inside me hopes he just tells them to "Screw Off"
Not necessarily. We could see a new addition to the journalers (I know that's not a real word but it works) later on that fills in the blanks the same way Kalani did with the mallers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoff4D
it sounds like CJ and Micheal are good pairing. However, I don't know if Micheal will stay if Saul and Victor and Lizzie(Mrs Wayland) goes back to Dunbar. I also don't think Tanya will stay if Saul leaves either.
Now with Riley and Burt are a good pair to hunt down Scratch. In memorial to Angel when the baby comes Saul will want to call the baby Angel, and Lizzie would want to name him Bricks.
Saul now has respect for Angel now
Congrats to the new married couple wish you all the best!!
This is the first time I ever posted on here but thought I had to put my two cents in. Some of the theories I believe are spot on.
I think Vic and Saul will want to keep Lizzie and Tanya from leaving the colony due to the baby and better medical care but I think Lizzie will not stay if she is told the truth and I don't think Tanya will stay if her boy is out. CJ is good at strategy but sucks when it comes to people on a day to day basis. I think she expect people to be machines and respond logically but she forgets that Michael's crew have been through hell and back and will watch out for each other. In the end it really depends on what Michael wants to do. I don't think Michael will not go along with her calling the shots now that Saul and Vic have to go and I think he will just go to Dunbar apartments with the crew. FYI I love the Burt and Riley pairing!! Can't wait for Scratch to meet her end. She is my favorite person that I love to hate!!
First, let me add my own congratulations. Second, you are going to do a "the Drive Home with KC and Blaire" covering the high points of your big event, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc