Well damn,
I had a feeling someone might have gotten to this one already, but I didn't see it so I figured I'd throw it up here. :p
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Well damn,
I had a feeling someone might have gotten to this one already, but I didn't see it so I figured I'd throw it up here. :p
yea...we're kinda running out of ways to spin this thing...i fear the things I spew from my mouth(or keyboard)..are gonna start getting borderline ridiculous soon..Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKor
borderline? SOON? where have you beenQuote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
Should change the poll from "unknown" to "Red Shirt". LOL
Remember the question about the alarm and which floor the armory was on..
How does one trip the alarm and make it up the stairs and to the room to pop Pippen and not be seen. Sounds like the work of two.
Because the wire was cut near the security room and someone could sneak into an adjacent apartment as to not be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
right, cut at or near the source. So.. if they ducked into a side room, they still would have had to run up the stairs, which means:Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
1. They ran up and then hid
2 They hid on the same floor, waited until Mike and Angel got there then slipped upstairs
3. Hid, ran up the stairs and hid again.
That is a lot of running and hiding for one person.
There is another Rat moment that allows us to narrow the field somewhat. The first shot of the War, that gave the Mallers the instigation they didn't really need to try and hostilely take the Tower. Been a while since I listened to the War, but I think that puts all military, Bill, and Pegs out of the running.
I've been in the Kelly camp for some time, though I may be wrong as she is the sensible obvious choice and KC may go for someone more surprising. As opposed to the re-cock-ulous obvious choice of Kalani, who to be the rat had to be inserted into the other tower by the mallers with the plan being that the zombies would successfully raid that tower, take Kalani prisoner, that those from the Tower would go to the arena and rescue him before he was killed, so that they could bring him back, where he would then have to TIME TRAVEL get to know everyone, leak that info over the CB, and to set up the theft of the ammunition which happened as he was near dead from shock in the Humvee with an IV in him.
Kelly fits the best, enough so that she may be there to throw us off the tracks of the real rat. She had the motive as she was not happy with the leadership prior to the war. Michael suspects the rat had a change of heart, and killed Pippin in order to keep their treachery secret. Kelly has a very obvious change of heart with her opposition to leadership when Tommy dies. She was the one that pushed alcohol at the party(been a while since i listened to season one, but I do remember going back looking for Kelly clues and to paraphrase her comment during the party planning "Who cares as long as there is plenty of boose). Also iirc, and this is rather vague memory, I think she was one of the first people to show up after the shooting of Pippin.
Pegs and Riley don't really seem to fit to me, as the plan for the War on the Mallers/Rat side was to get everyone drunk and then instigate a conflict by shots coming from the Tower first. This would lead to a conflict and all the military being killed and then the Tower surrenders. While that would be a perfectly fine plan to Kelly, it requires the death of Riley and Pegs love interest.
this brings up a good point, so the wire was cut outside the security room(4th floor). angel leaves there and heads up the stairs, fairly clean line of sight from his vantage point to 4th floor hall to stairway to burts armory(5th floor). michael leaves his position on the 6th floor, line of sight for the 6th floor, stairway, and 5th floor. so based on that info, we can all but eliminate anyone who was located at the sixth floor or above at the time of shooting. probably the easiest way for the shooter to have done it would beQuote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
cut the wire (outside sercurity room,4th floor)
duck into vacant room till angel heads upstairs(still 4th floor)
angel up the stairs, michael down the stairs...shoot pippin
leave that floor and head down (3rd floor or lower)
lurking at or around the security room would only raise attention to your presence. and heading up the stairs would make you visually noticeable after the shots were taken(see allegedly drunk riley)...heading down the stairs would be a far quicker way to take yourself away from the situation, far less effort to go down -vs-up..
now, who do we know was on a floor lower than the 3rd?
One other thing to consider: people arriving mid confusion to check on an alarm would be less suspicious. So it could be that the killer went back to the same room to listen through the paper thin walls for an opportunity to "investigate" the disturbance.
Right, I'm guessing your thinking the Kelly angle...thought about that one as I was saying the above bit...what you said would be the likely scenario in that case...(or for anyone else lurking we didn't notice/hear from)
I said this first and built an accurate theory, THE RAT IS KALANI!
you know, up until the last chapter i would have agreed with you. several characters have been given "just enough" evidence to make them a possible rat. but in truth, kalani has been portayed the most "rat-like". had he simply died, and left his journals behind as evidence as to the hows and whys of what he did..i for one would have been satisfied. im quite sure the backstory to the "that was my hannah" thing is quite the heartbreaker,and would have put a nice closing on a mid-way point of the storyQuote:
Originally Posted by Th3_T3ch
but thats not what happened
instead we are presented with this entirely new scenario, one where a person from (presumably) the other tower is still alive. and she just so hapens to (presumably) be the mythical CJ. that puts a whole new spin on things. im quite sure we will hear even more tales of kalani being not quite shady, but at the very least questionable at the other tower. just adding more fuel to the fire. this does not sit well with me, i smell a red herring, as do many others on here. ultimately i think it will come down to one of the core members of the original group. and in the end,the things he/she did early on (pre-the party) will be the downfall of everybody we have come to know. hats off to KC for doing it the right way
At this point, I'm just enjoying throwing fuel onto every possible fire. I'm pretty much leaving my vote at Datu and riding it to glory knowing I'm wrong. So I'll just sit here and fan the flames of all theories. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
I've got your back. King datu...the most overlooked of possibilities..hes the one pulling the Keyser soze..not skittlesQuote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
My hesitation about Datu being the rat is that he's been with the Tower from the start. Michael and crew discovered him trapped in the elevator way back when. To me, that would instill a heavy loyalty and gratitude to the group and I have a hard time seeing him betray them in such a manner. As valuable as his mechanical skills are, he still depends on the others in the Tower for his survival. He's also part of the core group with strong ties of friendship. As compelling as this might be from a storytelling perspective, to be betrayed by someone from the original group, I just don't see how the Mallers could persuade him to turn traitor.
For this same reason I have a hard time believing it could be Pegs or Riley (coupled with their romantic connections within the Tower).
And that's the allure, the genius of it! :D
(I honestly don't have a clue, but I kinda like the idea of the entire datu persona being an act)
edit: at some point ill work up a very detailed speculative "datu's the rat" scenario. its fairly interesting, in my mind at least
For a long time I was thinking Angel, but I think his relationship with Scratch works itself in a different way.
Can't believe how many people are sticking with King Datu the Resourceful.
Kelly seems too obvious. I like the Pegs theories, but I don't particularly believe she could justify it to herself, unless she mistakenly believes that selling out to the Mallers will make them all safer. She cares about Michael too much. And as for Kalani, I agree with what 7odd said.
So who else? Riley...? But what on earth would her motivation be?
I voted for Michael because he's the one who outed a rat to begin with. He's the one who started this whole discussion and it'd be really cool if he just did it to screw with everyone.
------
BTW. this is a joke.
alright..the datu theory (im not 100% prepared on this one..but ill piece it together)
.
in the beginning. datu was found at the tower...thats all fine and dandy, nothing suspicious there. now, later after the first attack on the tower during clean-up, kelly makes a comment about how gross this all is..datu says (paraphrasing) "meh..ive cleaned up worse." few have made notice of this.
at no point did datu have any involvement or interaction with the mallers...but he certainly was within the inner circle who would have heard of the "whos and whats" they are/were. knowledge that could easily be used to his advantage. in the early chapters, im sure datu had no other intentions than survival.
bringing us to the arena, this is a strong area of question for me. the timeline of datu/kalani's rescue and angel/riley's arrival doesn't add up. angel/riley were alledgededly in the pile for "hours" meaning there was a fair amount of time between samatha being taken and the rescue.(zombie sounds also dont match up with points in time within the narrative) plenty of alone time for datu/kalani to uh, discuss things. such as how kalanis "hannah" is now with the mallers, no reason for kalani not to talk...as far as he knew, datu would be the last person he would speak to... ever
the war...im a little fuzzy on datus placement during the party/ and the after-party(mallers arrival)...i may have been drunk with everyone else. ill come back to that after a lil more research, i think i had something in there somewhere.
after the war, datu and kalani were very "buddy-buddy" in fact, they were the two most viament to leave the tower. asking for supplies to make it on their own. when that plan fell through, kalani stuck his nose right in the middle of burts bees-wax and datu went back to his poor datu bees-wax. the real point of interest for me was how after the dust settled. datu was one of the most adamant to leave.
the pippin situation...heres where the theory gets interesting. so remember the arena thing i was talking about /\ up there? so just prior to pippins shooting, when steven was whining about gaurd duty...datu was on the roof...with kalani. datu would have all the info about pippins arrival from the converstion held in the basement. convey that info to kalani and the seed has been laid (YES, IM STILL BUYING THAT KALANI SHOT PIPPIN) but it was datu who set the trap for kalani to do it. the thing to keep in mind about pippin is, one of the first things he mentions at arrival is he's very good with faces, pippins reaction at the shooting seems to be someone hes yet to see in the tower....one of the few people we know he didn't see was kalani.
a few other things i can throw into this pile
names: durai is indian for "chief"..datu is phillipino for "chief"( not much, but its something)
datu mentions his kids are still back in luzon(sp?) and his brother helped him get a job in the states, one could speculate based on the few bits above that durai is datus brother(total speculation)
in many ways this theory doesn't hold up well..but to me its all the little bits in between that could be the catalyst to something larger. ultimately, if i were to put datu in the "rat" position, his ultimate goal would be to get back to his children..by any means nessecary. the one person who got him to america, may be the one person who could help him get home again. its a crazy stretch, i know..and ill probly work on it some more, i need to start another relisten...but hey. its something different. :)
I will help you with the war.
Datu does not come to the party. He is still sick in bed so to speak. Saul makes the comment about there is nothing wrong with him. I think Michael says that not all the wounds are on the outside and Angel adds how horrific it really was.
I do not recall any more until Burt gets to the Roof. YEs he wants to leave the building but a plan has not been formulated. With no plan, Datu loses hope and does not want to talk to Burt. The excuse he uses is he is leading people in prayer.
Cheetos:
incongruity here. Burt says we ran out of these weeks ago. If that is the case, all it proves is Bill (or someone) started stealing weeks ago or that Bill had some of his own.
The relationship of finding something that disappeared weeks ago to the stuff missing now is not really an A to B jump. But, when at the end of the rope it is worth checking. So, Bill is the thief or Bill was framed. My problem with Bill as the thief is that theft is an aspect of greed. A greedy person does not show up at the party to share his best hooch. For me it is more likely that his fear has eased. Especially with the help Burt gave him with the Gun and the medical treatment.
Datu/Hope
Hope comes from the colony.
The Plan is to GTFO ASAP.
Datu has to repair the chopper.
But in that 24 hour period he determines that his highest Priority is to hook up speakers so Hope can help with guard duty?
when they rescued datu and kalani, wasn't kalani near comotose? from what i remember, he didn't say anything to sam or datu the entire time.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
also, we have no reason to believe that datu was here state side illegally. assuming he was legal, it stands to reason that his brother was merely someone with connections who was able to secure him employment. if he was here illegally then he would've come in through specific channels. either way it is unlikely that his brother was directly involved in transporting him from... wherever, i forget where he's from, to america.
Legal status never even crossed my mind. datu was taking classes, in most cases im aware of...you need an overkill of identification to even sign up for school...not questioning that.
depends where you are, not turning this into an immigration thread, but in some places you can sign up for classes without being a legal immigrant, ora legal citizen.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
Right..so it could be...and..lets drop this
The way Kc has writen it, its as though he indicates that this person is the rat but then shows evidence why they cant be, i think the question shouldnt be who is that rats it should be who are the rats...
as in we find out in the latest episodes that kalani was working (un willingly) with the maulers along with pippin (who in the past left him and his daughter to die) so he had a reason to shoot pippin but he was with the chopper at the time.
it wouldnt be kelly because if it was surely tar wouldnt have tried to rape her and scratch would have recognised her
kelly was a lawyer and some of the maulers may have been her clients in the past (may have become friends)
saul was in prison at one point (i know it wasnt high security) but he may have met and befriended one of the maulers while he was there and he diddnt realy know michael and angel until the outbreak (maybe the maulers told saul they had is mom)
Burt diddnt exactly abide by the law and maybe some of the maulers could have been his customers but then the maulers would have no leaverage over him and he was out when pippin was shot anyway
Bill, why would he want his own tower destroyed?
there has to be more than 1 person in on this....
So am I not getting any kind of reward for totally getting the rat right? Seriously, my complete theory is soooooo freaking close to the actual happenings that I'm partially suspect to Kc tweaking my story and putting it in.
hmm...i have some humble pie...would you like a slice? Seriously, only jumping on here to spout off about how you did such a great job with "predicting" what would happen just sounds/looks bad man...slow your roll...i just had to jump in and say that...couldn't take it any more...Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3_T3ch
How is this poll still open?
Quite Simply: I forgot to close it.