Chapter 31 Family Ties part 3

ill not quote all ^ that..just to save space

good on you for coming back with a valid, well said response to those of us who questioned your first post. while i don't altogether agree with your opinions on a few bits, as evident by my second response :hsugh:...i (and many of us on here) will respect the hell out of someone who stands up for what they feel and not be ashamed to say so. but i guess thats the most difficult aspect of writing, well, anything with such a large base of source material like this...elements of all the things we have discussed here are going to come up...it would be completely unnatural if they didn't..if your going to try to include all walks of life within a story...include them..

but again..no more hate here from me..keep doing your thing...and we can all talk about it...together.

Not reading that walla of text.

Who has the cliffs?

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Originally Posted by Osiris

Not reading that walla of text.

Who has the cliffs?

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Killjoy: "I'm mad because Kc isn't more pro-gay."

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Originally Posted by Litmaster

Killjoy: "I'm mad because Kc isn't more pro-gay."

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That's what I took from that as well. Ms KJ is entitled to her opinions and, like 7odd, I respect her standing up for them. But she's clearly not been around guys all that much if she thinks what KC wrote is anything more than friendly fun-poking. As for women-hating, where'd you get that? I'm honestly really curious to know

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Originally Posted by Litmaster

Killjoy: "I'm mad because Kc isn't more pro-gay."

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The odd thing is that I forgot that point about gatekeeper until Killjoy brought it up. All I remember was that gatekeeper was bad guy based on the story of him shoot the survivors that were try to bring a child in. I wonder if this more of an issue of humor then anything else. Comedy is subjective and is one of of the most difficult thing for an actor to do. They can evoke angry, think of Scratch and what she did to Burt. They can evoke sadness, think of Sam in the arena . But to make someone think something funny sole depends on the listener or viewer.

I'm glad Connie Killjoy replied without anger and made a reasonable argument, to which 7odd was able to calmly give props and keep the door open for CK to feel she(?) could share any further concerns or observations.

However, Saul and Victor's banter was far from homophobic. I thought Victor's response was dismissive of Saul's comments and he didn't get caught up in feeling as if his sexuality was being threatened, so he didn't rail against Saul's playful jibes. Had Victor responded otherwise, then I could understand the argument for homophobia.

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Originally Posted by Litmaster

If anyone is wondering just what a Katana looks like or what can be done with a good one, here's a video I came across of some guys using a katana to hack their way through animal carcasses, braided rope, mats, bamboo, copper pipes, and steel barrels:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3nAuowwqhI


Impressive! I can totally visualize CJ hacking her blade into that Zed Hed...

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If these were legal here I'd want one.

When Vee finally gets written in as Riley's love interest, can we have it after his brief but passionate fling with CJ, thanks very much.

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Originally Posted by Connie Killjoy

My frustration isn't about political correctness as much as it is writing. My problem with the content of this week's episode is that the homophobic cracks and weird slurs about Victor's ex wife were jarring. Why wouldn't Victor be angrier about Saul joking about his dead friend? And with NO explanation about why Victor feels the way he does about his wife, I am (as a listener) just supposed to assume that these things are true? I walked away from this episode hating these characters more than necessary.

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Personally, I call my college girlfriend of 4+ years as "She Who Must Not Be Named" and make all sorts of claims equating her to Voldemort. Is she evil incarnate? No. Did she do a metric shit ton of stuff that I feel like she deserves the title sometimes? Yes. Do I believe Victor truly believes his ex-wife is as evil as he portrayed? No, I think he in a serious moment would allow some nuance in his description.

He has known Saul longer. He knew Fernando for less than 3 months. He's been with Saul for at least 4 now. What I took away from that is Saul has replaced Fernando in Victor's life. I thought the conversation was crossing a line, but what informed me that this was normal and ok was Victor's reaction. If he doesn't have issue with it, then neither do I because this is obviously a string of jokes Saul has touched on before and Victor has become desensitized to it.

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In at least one episode Saul and Victor say racially heated things to each other, but it was when they still hated each other. So now, instead of saying racial shit, Saul is putting Victor into the "gay" catagory, which is safer because it's not offensive to either of them to make fun of gay people? This doesn't make sense to me.

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Friends press friends buttons to get a rise out of them.

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When I hear discource between two straight male characters like the ones in the conversation, it doesn't have context for me to understand that they are bonding. Instead, it sounded like Saul was picking on Victor, and vice versa. They sound more like enemies than friends, and then the conversation about CJ is even worse because it (to me as a listener who doesn't hang out with people that talk to each other that way) IT MAKES NO SENSE.

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They are picking on each other. That's how men bond. This isn't the first media outlet to show men in this light. Extreme example See: Fight Club.

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And as for this, the Gatekeeper business ....

I am still uncomfortable with the Gatekeeper, who I see as super creepy, sinister, and a cold-blooded killer, as being theonly character on the show who has been defined as gay. Sure, there are suspicions about Riley, but her character is an alchoholic and also in the closet if she is a lesbian. I am entitled to feeling that way and having someone list out all the ways that he isn't perpetuating a stereotype isn't helpful to convincing me otherwise. Also, when I'm unexpectedly jarred by two characters having a conversation like Victor and Saul's, the tolerence I need to have to "get over" all the other stuff that I could get over for the sake of the story becomes strained.

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Never once did I say you needed to get over it and you are perfectly entitled to react to the story however you will.

but the point I'm trying to make is simple: You can scream out boogie man all you'd like that Gatekeeper is an evil character who happens to be gay, but that's just it. He just happens to be gay. You're making a big deal out of it when there is nothing there showing him as gay. He's a character. He happens to be gay. Durai, Latch, Scratch and Tardust are all "evil" characters who happen to be straight (I'll assume on Scratch and Durai as this hasn't been discussed with them). I find Tardust far more offensive as a straight man who tried to rape another character. He's forcing his sexuality and dominance on someone. Gatekeeper does not. It's a facet of his personality. If Gatekeeper was depicted molesting men as they were inspected, I'd be right there with you. That would be a horrible depiction of a gay character who is using their position to force people into unwilling sexual encounters.

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Something about Gatekeeper and his position doesn't sit right with me at all, and the fact that the story pointed out him being gay also seemed out of context. Perhaps it was thrown in there to make people feel better about him staring at naked Peggs and Kelly. Still, it struck me as odd and uncomfortable.

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And it didn't strike me as out of the ordinary at all. But that's my opinion just like yours is. Neither right, nor wrong...just is.

Oh, well, I felt that the dialogue between Saul and Victor was bang on the money, it was very fluid and natural and the only reason I think about it at all is because it has been brought up here.

I guess we all do see things differently, or hear them in this case, but for me, this episode was pretty much flawless in terms of writing and execution. Really enjoyed it.