Who's The Rat?

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Originally Posted by Funny Muffins

Datu was given a pistol a while back, but I am quite sure he lost it during the arena bit. (CORRECTION NIK?)
Why would he be the mole? I am under the air that he is emotionally distraught during the party deal.
Could Kelly work a CB radio?
The soldiers sure, the pilot NO DOUBT, P/R/T/L/K probably not.
Bill?
Very possible, he was barricaded on the top floor on day 1.
He knew either something, or someone, he is very suspicious but one question I struggle with is the multiple moles model.
If I am to assume that these characters listed above contains the mole then it seems unlikely that more than one of them would be dirty thus if it was to be one character that fired/called/stole then I would have to settle with Bill.
He knew all the info provided, and even brought down alcohol to help grease the gears.

My only issue with this theory:
I feel a call went out earlier to establish a relationship and then another to queue up the attack and Bill didn't seem to have that kinda time other than when they left for the Arena.

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well first of all, i think knowing how to use a cb radio would be a basic skill in the zombie apocalypse so lets not go jumping to conclusions that only the soldiers can do it, tommy was the tech guy, so no doubt he could, pegs used the radio to call angel at the tower, so she can, Riley and lizzy are both strong characters and often go into the field so no doubt it's survival 101 that they know how to use the radio in case something goes wrong, I'm convinced they all know how to use a radio.

Ur theory with bill seems solid, but i dont think this will be the case, for one reason only, having a dead guy be your mole makes for bad storytelling. that ruins the build up of suspense, which one your loved characters is going to be the traitor, it's building up all this tension, and then having it all be bill, the guy who's already screwed over the group by stealing food and ammo, would be kind of an anticlimax. of course i would take bill over say, angel, or saul or riley, any day, cause if the traitor somehow ends up being angel, (which it wont!) there will be hell to pay! I hope its datu or kalani, just cause i have no attachment to either of them, i think it could be kelly, but she's really grown on me the last few chapters, she's pretty funny and useful now, arghhh right now, all the shitty characters went through a salvation of one sort or another recently, kalani went on an advneture with angel, kelly proved herself, and hope is at the tower so i'm sure datu will stop being a pessimist now. whatever as long as it isnt angel

I still say it was the guy who died trying to leave the tower!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Funny Muffins

Datu was given a pistol a while back, but I am quite sure he lost it during the arena bit. (CORRECTION NIK?)
Why would he be the mole? I am under the air that he is emotionally distraught during the party deal.

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He was given a gun, but he emptied it when he fell into the trap. There's no mention that it made it to the Arena so I'll assume he lost it. However, Datu has keys to every room in the building and could make it into the weapons store at any point during the day we don't hear about/during the party.

I explained already earlier when I cast my vote for Datu. And here's the explanation again:

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

I chose Datu.

For the longest time, I would swear by Kelly. She makes the most sense overall to me. But two things changed my mind: I relistened to The War chapter, and the person who first defends the Tower as a weaponless resident is Kelly. She is the first person to throw a couch over the balcony. She's trying to defend their home. I also keyed on Jim Gleason's reasons why Datu survived (thematically) in the stadium as stated on the We're Not Dead podcast. Datu has a never say die attitude and it serves him well. He survives because he has faith that he will. Samantha's fatalist approach to her situation lends to her destruction.

Since the encounter at the Stadium, Datu has adopted the fatalist stance (and become an insufferable annoyance). He's also got severe survivors guilt. When he returned to the Tower, he was crushed and couldn't care less. And he's the only one we never heard at the party.

Can't you just see him talking to the Mallers on the radio, depressed and choking up wanting them to come in and end his misery? He can hear the merriment of the party and it just grinds on his last nerve. Why can't he and Samantha be up there having fun? Then he gets more pissed that they aren't coming in to kill him fast enough so he fires off the first rounds to make them come faster.

So call me/it crazy, but I call Datu trying commit suicide by Maller.

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That just seem so bizarre Nikoooo...
I recall reading that now but still...

I could see that type of attitude from a really jealous Pegs, but Datu risking his life and the lives of those who saved him over a dead chick who was killed because of Kalani's illness/possum ploy seems too strong. I could see Datu calling them up on accident, or w.e and just being like
"OH YESH WE'RE ALIVE! Here is our address because I am one of the few people who knows it from before the breakout! YEAH WE HAVE ROOM! MICHEAL WOULD LOVE YOU BAD-ASSES!"

But the only problem with this is when would this occur, pre arena? That would require him to call back during the party which I NEVER see happening, I could see Datu sulking somewhere or even drinking into unconsciousness. Datu had kids, he knows what it is to care for others, I just do not see it in him to commit virtual suicide by mauler. He could have seen the future with Sam, I don't see him just giving up HOPE on life that quickly...

(He was a depressive little ****er for a while there though..)

Pegs was on the road when she used that CB radio so was Kellie, so both have learned to use them.

Theory:
If you venture out or monitor those that leave the tower you could understandably understand the concept of CB Radios and their usage of them.
How many of you can use one right now, no hesitation, no learning required?
+1 here

Tommy sure, he could have called but then why?
Bill could have his own CB but I highly doubt that, we haven't learned or may not ever discover something that large.
Kellie doesn't seem one to call up INMATES, I mean PLEASE re-listen to the briefing on the Maulers she was like "JEEZ MIKE WAY TO SCARE THE WOMEN!" obviously she knows what they are like, and it seems like she doesn't want anything to do with them...
Besides your correct, she was first to start throwin chairs during the war.

Anyone who is throwing the first chair is fine in my book...



EDIT: Im actually looking to get a CB for my vehicle now, might prove useful down the road. Family back east uses em, but out here would be fun..

The problem I have with every other choice except datu is why? Datu is the only one with a reason. All the other options people cling to are characters people just hate. I have yet to hear a convincing reason for anyone else in the tower to do that.

I'm still open if you or anyone wants to convince me, but its going to have to provide a strong reason why. Bizarre or not, my reasoning for datu as the rat makes sense.

That seems easy enough.
Who would you like me to convince you of?

Kalani is a disliked character that I am trying to save from MOLE STATUS, he may have been part of the reason the Maulers showed up.
However, he did not steal anything from the tower krew. That would be physically impossible as he was away.

He was sober during the party.
He is a pilot and would know directions in relation to certain positions of the sun etc. (Despite what he keeps saying, I feel he should know about Tower2's location at least general direction in relation to LAX.)
He would know how to use a radio.
He would know how to find the radio in the tower, Angel showed him the ready room/guardroom if you will.
He was in the arena before Samantha, he may have come from Hawaii but he may have be removed from a the Maulers as well at some point.

Could he have lied and was actually picked up first by the Maulers and thus was kicked out to be saved by Tower2?
He could have been trying to turn T2 before it was raided by the Zedd, we could discover that him getting close and being useful is his cover...

Unlikely but possible considering the end of the world just occurred and all. We know Skittles was with Kalani at some point because he seemed to recognize him.
(I'm taking this as a sign that Skit actually knows him from Tower2, and is not a few fries short of a happy meal.)

I do not believe that Kalani did it at heart, but if I were to mistrust one character due to his questionable background it would be Kalani over Bill because Bill is confirmed by Datu's existence to be the owner of the building and just an all around ass.
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If you are to believe that Datu is responsible for attempting to KILL everyone in the tower I believe you are missing something key.
Even the end of 19-3 should prove my point.
HES A PUSS!
Hes happy when MPK returned, he was stoked to open the gate and he was BALLING OVER HOPE!
That doesn't sound like a man that just tried to throw it all away.

In fact with Liz gone now that might make her slightly more suspicious but the motive is nonexistent...
She love Saul, and seems to respect human life.
Ha!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Funny Muffins

That seems easy enough.
Who would you like me to convince you of?

Kalani is a disliked character that I am trying to save from MOLE STATUS, he may have been part of the reason the Maulers showed up.
However, he did not steal anything from the tower krew. That would be physically impossible as he was away.

He was sober during the party.
He is a pilot and would know directions in relation to certain positions of the sun etc. (Despite what he keeps saying, I feel he should know about Tower2's location at least general direction in relation to LAX.)
He would know how to use a radio.
He would know how to find the radio in the tower, Angel showed him the ready room/guardroom if you will.
He was in the arena before Samantha, he may have come from Hawaii but he may have be removed from a the Maulers as well at some point.

Could he have lied and was actually picked up first by the Maulers and thus was kicked out to be saved by Tower2?
He could have been trying to turn T2 before it was raided by the Zedd, we could discover that him getting close and being useful is his cover...

Unlikely but possible considering the end of the world just occurred and all. We know Skittles was with Kalani at some point because he seemed to recognize him.
(I'm taking this as a sign that Skit actually knows him from Tower2, and is not a few fries short of a happy meal.)

I do not believe that Kalani did it at heart, but if I were to mistrust one character due to his questionable background it would be Kalani over Bill because Bill is confirmed by Datu's existence to be the owner of the building and just an all around ass.
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If you are to believe that Datu is responsible for attempting to KILL everyone in the tower I believe you are missing something key.
Even the end of 19-3 should prove my point.
HES A PUSS!
Hes happy when MPK returned, he was stoked to open the gate and he was BALLING OVER HOPE!
That doesn't sound like a man that just tried to throw it all away.

In fact with Liz gone now that might make her slightly more suspicious but the motive is nonexistent...
She love Saul, and seems to respect human life.
Ha!

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-So because Kalani doesn't like to drink he's the rat? Perhaps he has a medical condition that makes it difficult for him to process alcohol.
-If you've never been to a big city, they can be confusing. If they were beating feet to get away from zombies at the airport, how do you begrudge them not knowing exactly where they are going? NYC is simple enough to figure out once you're above 14th street and the city becomes a grid. L.A. is not set up like that and it's a little more vast and sprawling with many side streets etc. If you're new, it would be very easy to get lost. Especially if you're watching your ass because it's about to get gnawed off.
-Yes he would know how to use a radio, but you're assuming he knew who the Mallers are. If he didn't know, he can't be the traitor. Datu would know where the radio is, is mechanically inclined and could find the Mallers knowing they are out there.
-Yes he could have been a captured Maller. But he also could be a captured Tower2 resident. There's no proof to the contrary, and he hasn't been proven to be a liar about anything else yet.
- Without knowing where Skittles originally came from, there's no way to know for certain why he thinks he recognizes Kalani. I agree Skittles knows him, but does Skittles know him from a mental institution? Was Skittles a member of the other Tower?

And you bring me full circle to my point for Datu: Datu has a motive. He's the only one that has a clear motive that is told in the story. If it comes out later that it was someone else, so be it. But with the information as it stands right now he's the only one that makes sense to me. And Datu did not try to kill everyone in the Tower. My original theory said "Suicide By Maller." He wanted to die. If my theory holds true, he wasn't thinking about the other residents, just himself.

19-3 proves nothing. 19-3 proves that Datu has moved onto the final stages of grieving. Go back and listen to Chapter 13. Tell me that isn't someone who is desperate. Tell me it's someone who hasn't made a radical shift from his normal personality into something different. You can't judge how he is now to how he was then. If that's the case, Kelly is still a bitch, Kalani is still a douche bag, and Pegs still doesn't shoot guns.

His attitude was in some ways self destructive during 13 yes.
But, he filled the gas cans against his better knowledge, he lowered them down and even did as he was told while he was grieving in respect to Burt and whatnot. 19-3 shows not just that he is in those final stages but that he is going to be looking forward to protecting his last shred of Hope. (Ha)

Because Kalani doesn't drink isn't the only reason he is suspicious, but how would he know about all these Supplies to the east when he is kissing up with Burt, even if he is just guessing he knows more than he is letting on about something. I can't think Datu is the mole because of his behavior, yes he is major depressed and seemly giving up on survival after watching his possible lover being ripped to shreds. Even after this he has the power to run out of the arena, he has to desire even on the brink of mental breakdown to keep pushing forward. Kalani mean while shows up, he is being screamed at by Mike, being told that the new tower has NO WEAPONS/AMMO/FOOD upon arrival. Then he has to deal with the fact that suddenly this new home of his is filled with partying ragoons who don't seem to be taking survival seriously.

I wouldn't take much for him to start looking for a way out either on the CB, or with someone physically like a Bill.

We should agree on atleast 1 thing Nik before we continue.
Was there more than 1 person involved in acting against the Tower? Was the food Bill and the CB call someone else?
I so feel like he woke up inside the arena and decided it was time to take control of his life (playing possum, getting close, then accomplishing his goals...)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Funny Muffins

His attitude was in some ways self destructive during 13 yes.
But, he filled the gas cans against his better knowledge, he lowered them down and even did as he was told while he was grieving in respect to Burt and whatnot. 19-3 shows not just that he is in those final stages but that he is going to be looking forward to protecting his last shred of Hope. (Ha)

Because Kalani doesn't drink isn't the only reason he is suspicious, but how would he know about all these Supplies to the east when he is kissing up with Burt, even if he is just guessing he knows more than he is letting on about something. I can't think Datu is the mole because of his behavior, yes he is major depressed and seemly giving up on survival after watching his possible lover being ripped to shreds. Even after this he has the power to run out of the arena, he has to desire even on the brink of mental breakdown to keep pushing forward. Kalani mean while shows up, he is being screamed at by Mike, being told that the new tower has NO WEAPONS/AMMO/FOOD upon arrival. Then he has to deal with the fact that suddenly this new home of his is filled with partying ragoons who don't seem to be taking survival seriously.

I wouldn't take much for him to start looking for a way out either on the CB, or with someone physically like a Bill.

We should agree on atleast 1 thing Nik before we continue.
Was there more than 1 person involved in acting against the Tower? Was the food Bill and the CB call someone else?
I so feel like he woke up inside the arena and decided it was time to take control of his life (playing possum, getting close, then accomplishing his goals...)

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Datu filled gas cans yes. He also kept saying their plans weren't going to work.

I will never deny that Kalani's behavior is suspect. It is. 100% there are things about him that don't add up per se. My reaction to Kalani as the traitor is a reaction against people who just out and out hated him. I've always smelled red herring around both Kalani and Kelly because of how they acted in Season 1 and parts of Season 2. I completely understand why they are attractive choices for the Rat. If you took Datu out of the equation for me and made me choose between Kalani or Kelly, I'd choose Kalani.

As for how he could know about supplies to the East, he may have over heard something said in the other Tower. May or may not. Not saying he did, but that could be a reason how he knew. And as for your explanation as to why he would sell out the Tower, it is probably the most solid theory I've heard thus far for Kalani as the traitor.

And just to show you that I'm not entirely blinded by my theory, I'll throw another bone into the pit for the Kalani did it people: We started hating Kalani because he was a worthless lump. Now we like him because he assisted Angel and became a generally Ok guy. Now that we've gone on one roller coaster loop, Kc could send us on another one and turn Kalani once again into the ass hat so many people believe him to be. That would be a great piece of storytelling.

I posted in this massive thread somewhere about the comparison to the original Scream and how I actually had the bad guys figured out and then backed off it because there's never two killers in a slasher flick. So there very well could have been a second person involved. But if there is a second person involved, I wouldn't have the faintest idea who the second person would be (especially since we are all unable to come to a consensus as to who the one person could be). Personally, I'm leaning towards a lone gunman.

The food was obviously Bill. So was the ammo. But that's not the same as selling the Tower out. That was just hoarding for your own survival. I think whomever made the call worked independently of Bill because if the Traitor knew there was a mini stock pile of stuff no one else knew about but the traitor and Bill, they might have held off longer to make the call. Or of course, they could have presented it to their new overlord Durai and be treated like a King.

If you look around the board, I don't tend towards wild speculation. Datu is one of my only out there theories I'm holding onto. And I know the amount of crow I'm lining up to eat if I'm wrong. And when/if we find out who the traitor is, I will line up and take it.....or I'll go back and delete all my posts about it and dispatch the MIB to erase everyone's memory.

Again, I always felt Kalani/Kelly was way too easy to pin it on. I also think it doesn't fit Bill either. So if you eliminate them, it comes down to who would have a motivation to want to see a change. And I landed on Datu.

I am going to say who I think the rat/mole was.. I think it was precious Tommy. He was on watch. I think he was tired of his aunt's crap and acted out.