Will Angel Ever Take Control of the Tower?

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Originally Posted by Ra1th

how is that ignoring what was happening? That was i'm gettin laid! oh shit somethings wrong! hey burt what's wrong? Burt: nothing's wrong Angel: cool, back to my lady. nothing douchey there

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Wait. Wait. Wait.. Bruh, the post above this one (where you quoted me) you said for me to give him some slack because he'd just been through hell and killed a behemoth (actually Kalani did), but here you're saying it's cool and he's actually not so hurt as to be cool getting him "SOME."
So.. he's not That hurt to engage in some rigorous physical Bump and Grind, but he's too hurt to wander down the stairs and engage (as a "Leader") in what's happening in the tower. Is that correct?

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"how is that ignoring what was happening? That was i'm gettin laid! oh shit somethings wrong! hey burt what's wrong? Burt: nothing's wrong Angel: cool, back to my lady. nothing douchey there"

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I'll sum it up:

1. Angel is too wounded to step up so it's cool that he goes back to sleep
2. Angel isn't too wounded to get some ass

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

so did you all listen to that walking dead podcast episode that mentions wa?

"angel is inexperienced and wants to lead, but he's kind of a fuck up." (inaccurate quote because i deleted the podcast and don't want to redownload it)

even people who haven't listened to the entire show and independent of this forum know angel is no leader.

Just. Sayin'.

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rofl!!

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

Thanks, Ra1th!
So Nik if you want to talk semantics, technically, Angel has already taken control of the tower at the start, so isn't this game over.
Unless you want to change the name to 'Will Angel Ever Take Control of the Tower Again', Angel wins. :)

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Wait! Huh? When? How?

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Originally Posted by Ra1th

Burt might not have nukes in there, but do you remember how devastating it was the last time the armory was raided? the Tower lost all of their ammo, and then had to fight the mallers wihtout ammo, and subsequently they lost a number of lives in that attack. So yes the ammo room is absolutely the priority over protecting the blind girl from the prisoner who's chained to a wall.

Who's going to "MAKE SURE" Hope is safe? safe from what? what's the threat? the hypothetical assault on the tower? when angel ran out of the room, he had no reason to believe that Hope was in any danger.

Once again crowbar, we have hindsight on this issue, you're blaming Angel for going after the armory instead of guarding hope. At that point in time, Angel had reason to believe the armory was being raided, and he had no reason to believe that Hope was in any danger. Could he have told hope that he'd be right back? yeah sure that would be nice, but surely you realize that in times of crisis or when there's heavy pressure on you sometimes people make small mistakes, this was a small thing that he forgot to do, Even if he told her to hide that wouldnt have done her any good, she's blind, she cant do that by herself. If he had taken the time to hide her before he left, then the raider of the armory woulda gotten away. Also what reason did he have to hide her? he had none, there was no threat to hope. there was no reason to hide her. Had angel NOT gone after the armory I'm sure you would have bashed him for that too, oh he fails as a leader because he wants other people to do his job for him.

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Man,
I'm going to have my own page of comments after this.
I see that you can't see the danger presented. There's an emotional attachment now, so it's like talking religion or politics now.
I'm not using hindsight. My original thought when Angel ran from the room was WTF! I was expecting Pippen to throttle Hope.
Secondly, I used my experience from my time a cop in the USAF. I'm/was BISS certified (Base Installation Security Systems) which means watching a monitor bank that's linked to storage units containing Nukes, perimeter fences, buildings and coordinating responders during any perimeter breach or ALARM. Same system they used in Nuclear reactors in the mid 90's
So, it's not hindsight i'm employing.
I won't go over what I've already said because it's not soaking in. That's cool. We all are entitled to our opinions.
I will comment on the part where you say Angel wouldn't catch a break from me no matter which way he went (paraphrasing you).
That's where you're incorret. I don't think he should have left in the first place. You never "React" to a situation. You always "Act" to one.

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

Wait! Huh? When? How?

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Cupcake is talking about in the very beginning when Michael deferred to Angel before he left for the supply mission in Chapter 2(The one where they found Burt). So Angel was in charge of the Tower for.....less than 2 chapters....which equates out to 4 chapter parts because 1-1 didn't involve the Tower at all.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Cupcake is talking about in the very beginning when Michael deferred to Angel before he left for the supply mission in Chapter 2(The one where they found Burt). So Angel was in charge of the Tower for.....less than 2 chapters....which equates out to 4 chapter parts because 1-1 didn't involve the Tower at all.

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um.. sure. Ok. that's called delegating... but ok.

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

um.. sure. Ok. that's called delegating... but ok.

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I posted this because Nik had said that they would leave the tower so Angel would never be in charge, so I said that early on Michael did say that Angel was in charge (due to rank) so technically the thread has already been resolved.
Was just part of my distraction techniques.

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

I posted this because Nik had said that they would leave the tower so Angel would never be in charge, so I said that early on Michael did say that Angel was in charge (due to rank) so technically the thread has already been resolved.
Was just part of my distraction techniques.

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LOL.. that's why they issue thermal imagers. Too see through smoke screens! I'm not Angel. I don't get distracted. ROFL!

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

So did you all listen to that Walking Dead podcast episode that mentions WA?

"Angel is inexperienced and wants to lead, but he's kind of a fuck up." (inaccurate quote because I deleted the podcast and don't want to redownload it)

Even people who haven't listened to the entire show and independent of this forum know Angel is no leader.

Just. Sayin'.

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I have to step in and disagree with you Nik, I had meant to read the entire thread but this post stopped me. Angel can be a leader.. he has shown leadership skills.. he is rough but he is learning and learning fast. To back up my statement I must direct you to the fact that Angel has lead multiple parties out of the tower on missions, some of them simple supply runs some of them dangerous such as his little trip with Kalani. He saved Kalani's life by not abandoning him. Kalani didn't lead that mission Angel did. He earned the right to lead and the respect of Kalani on his own.
The reasons why he didn't take control of the tower were limited to one thing and one thing only, experience. If something happens to Michael again I see Angel actually being skilled enough now to step into Michael's very very large shoes and keeping the place afloat and people not dead or turned.
I'll end this with a memory of my mother's 2nd husband he was a 2 tour Viet Nam vet and did his tours on the door gun of a helo where the life expectancy of one of these guys was under a minute in a fire fight. He told me that you could always tell who the best officers were you know the ones you would follow into battle. They were the guys who as butter bar Lt's had listened to and followed the direction of their more experience battle tested platoon sargent.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

14. Blind. Girl. There's a difference between her and an adult. To an adult, he's not a security risk. Were you capable of fighting off a determined adult at the age of 14? While blindfolded so you couldn't see them coming? Look, I'm not a parent, but leaving a handicapped child alone with a man nobody trusts to me, reeks to high heaven.

And I think you make as many assumption to think he isn't capable of doing anything just because he's chained to the wall (or bedframe depending on what you want to believe). In fact, I even helped debunk my own dastardly theory because I saw the artwork. The SFX lead me to believe it's an actual chain and not handcuffs, but that's neither here nor there.

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Ok, reality check. What has more importance in the grand scheme of things in this sort of situation? A blind 14 year old girl who can not ever be a fully functional member of the group, who will be dependent on food and shelter and protection FOREVER or the weapons and lives of the "functional" members of the tower? Mother nature is a bitch gentlemen as much as we do not like to see it or believe it folks like Hope will not survive in a future situation like this.

Hope is dead either way by the bullet of the assassin or by her own blindness if the tower falls.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

There are still people who don't know if he's a maller or not (Steven) there are those who want to let him loose back into LA (Victor), and Michael can't make heads or tails of it because his mind frame is/has shifted since his time in the colony. Scratch's words be damned, Michael's words are you aren't to let Pippin out of your sight and he's not to be left alone. Angel failed to follow orders. And I'll just go ahead and make your point for you because I know you think I think Michael is perfect: Michael is at fault for leaving the guard as a single person shift.

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There are not enough people in the tower for a 2 man shift. Folks got to eat, sleep, and do other things to keep the grand old tower functional.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Thief dead. Angel hero, and a 14 year old blind girl isn't left alone with a man nobody trusts.

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Again I refer to the above statement. Is the life of one 14 year old blind girl more valued in this current situation then the lives of the physically fit and able?
I'll put this into perspective you might understand. We will use the Titanic's history for this example:
After the launching of the few life boats and the ship went down there were hundreds of people in the freezing cold water drowning and dying. The life boats had the option to come back and pick up survivors and do the "humane thing" and instead they waited over an hour to do so.. why you ask?

When this disaster went to the senate hearings 5th officer Harold Lowe of the Titanic was questioned why he waited so long to go back

(Harold Lowe was in-charge of the only boat to go back for survivors for historical reference ) He waited over an hour to go back for survivors . His reasoning was that he had the responsibility for the lives with him in the boat. Had he gone back for survivors the lives in the boat would have been lost by the boat being swarmed by the 1000's of people in the water. He made a choice to save the survivors he had with him rather then lose all of them and save no one.

Get it? Being a leader means you make the shitty choices. Angel made the shitty choice by leaving Hope but in his head he was trying to help the tower survive. The sign of a leader.