Chapter 40-3 Monsters

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

Victor's Foul up

I think it was something pretty basic to soldiering, like muzzle disciplin or sector of fire. I lean towards sector of fire. We have heard that several times from Puck. Victor reminds Tanya of it in 40-2. I also think it would be the hardest for him. He and Saul are out there for four months. Heads always on a swivel and overlapping eachother.

Then, plug him into a team of six or more and he might not be used to just looking just in one narrow field.

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Could it be the Angel thing?

I think that adds to the punishment, but I have problem squaring it with the stated cause it is not fair to the other soldiers.

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

Victor's Foul up

I think it was something pretty basic to soldiering, like muzzle disciplin or sector of fire. I lean towards sector of fire. We have heard that several times from Puck. Victor reminds Tanya of it in 40-2. I also think it would be the hardest for him. He and Saul are out there for four months. Heads always on a swivel and overlapping eachother.

Then, plug him into a team of six or more and he might not be used to just looking just in one narrow field.

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I kinda wondered if we weren't given a clue about this in the episode. victor mentions how mike n co. came straight to the mortuary instead of a safe house in between. mike emphasizes they weren't followed.

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Originally Posted by Eviebae

If you had something to do with the outbreak, or knew why things happened the way they did, how would you act to hide it. How might it show?

If the tattoos protected Ink in some way, why?

I ask because it occurred to me that CJ might have information she's hiding...then I thought, no, it doesn't make sense because she didn't seem to really know Ink besides as a marauder of her castle. Then I thought that since we know Ink didn't start it--or at least had no hand in the implementation--her not reacting to Ink strongly would make sense even so.

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I ever mention I like everything you post?

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

Hmm...

Like someone said early on in this thread, Tanya's statement

He (Ink) wants to end it.

Yea, so the group thinks Ink did not start it, but who doesn't want to end it?

I do not quite understand his actions and maybe I am not supposed to, because he is psycho.

He wipes out CJ's tower, but spares Skittles/Duncan. He does not attack CJ and maybe that was because of her defensive position. Some survivors of CJ's tower attack and or try to rescue. Ink then attacks the water plant where some of CJs people may be located.

He goes to the Tower and kills Paul. However, he does not call in lots of others and he knocks on the door like a normal person when finished with Paul. In chapter 40 he kicks out the double doors of a prisoner transport van. My guess he could kick the door in, but he knocks on the door like a friend.

He laughs at Riley and Kilani after she tries to shoot him with an arrow.

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ever notice how he let both riley and cj live? ever consider they are both thirty something dark haired females?

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Originally Posted by tonyhind86

Could be something related to the chemicals Randy dropped in the plastic bag. One of them we know was Follistatin. The other remains a mystery, though was described as having a "distinct metallic smell"

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this idea was brought up originally with the "inklings". the idea of each numbered one being a different combination of drugs implemented via the numbered tattoos. easy to delineate what combo works best via the "lab rat tags" on their arms...I like the idea of drugs in ink pens, but I question the logistics of him getting that organized while hes in jail...or prior to murdering his wife and lovers family. that would imply that shit was wwaaaaaayyyy premeditated. I can only suspend so much disbelief.

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Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper

Could it be the Angel thing?

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short answer, no. long answer, Michael seems to trust vic to look after tayna, but not to work with a group. this says its something along the lines of a lone wolf works best alone...if I were victor, I would not feel slighted by that. hes more help watching out for tayna anyways.

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Originally Posted by 7oddisdead

this idea was brought up originally with the "inklings". the idea of each numbered one being a different combination of drugs implemented via the numbered tattoos. easy to delineate what combo works best via the "lab rat tags" on their arms...I like the idea of drugs in ink pens, but I question the logistics of him getting that organized while hes in jail...or prior to murdering his wife and lovers family. that would imply that shit was wwaaaaaayyyy premeditated. I can only suspend so much disbelief.

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That.....that is a pretty good theory....could explain why #7 started to attack his own kind in Inglewood, AND was bigger than usual, compared to other little ones; maybe a crazy inbalance of chemicals turned him into too much of an animal?

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Originally Posted by Gooer

That.....that is a pretty good theory....could explain why #7 started to attack his own kind in Inglewood, AND was bigger than usual, compared to other little ones; maybe a crazy inbalance of chemicals turned him into too much of an animal?

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Thin the herd. Not enough food to go around.

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Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper

Thin the herd. Not enough food to go around.

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That could also explain it, but i feel the way Victor and Tanya described it, it felt that it was more than that, if you get my meaning

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Originally Posted by Tar Heel Fan

2) Victor must have sold Michael an awful policy with too many fees... I wouldn't trust him after that, either

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Originally Posted by Gooer

I wouldn't trust him either, the shady snake he would be. Not that Vic would do that, he's too awesome....

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Oh, great. Now whenever I hear Vic's character, all I think of is him dressed as Flo from those progressive commercials.

Remember when Victor, Michael, Pegs and Kelly escaped the colony - they took all the guns with them - leaving the colonists defenseless when the Mallers took over. The colonists blamed Michael, and eventually voted to have CJ lead instead of him.
What if Michael is bitter towards Victor because of this - after all, he did say that it was Victor's idea to his face.

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Originally Posted by tonyhind86

Remember when Victor, Michael, Pegs and Kelly escaped the colony - they took all the guns with them - leaving the colonists defenseless when the Mallers took over. The colonists blamed Michael, and eventually voted to have CJ lead instead of him.
What if Michael is bitter towards Victor because of this - after all, he did say that it was Victor's idea to his face.

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That was my impression, didn't think there was much to it.

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Originally Posted by Gooer

That could also explain it, but i feel the way Victor and Tanya described it, it felt that it was more than that, if you get my meaning

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Are you talking about Hot Zombie on Zombie lovin? :melt:

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Originally Posted by cringebot

Interesting theory! Did they ever say what the tattoos were of? Sorry, i have a poor memory. Maybe it's a written formula?

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Not said, per se, but the tattoos have been featured in cover art. Notably, the cover for Chapter 27 and the infamous TOWTM bust picture.

I, along with the help of several luminaries here on the forums, have done considerable analysis, conjecture and theorizing on the nature and meaning behind the tattoo; here in the theory section of the forum.

While we have been able to assign possible meanings to individual segments... we really haven't been able to cohesively tie it together. It is as if we have been given a jigsaw, but there are several puzzles in the box, though we don't know how many and there are a lot of pieces missing.

A formula you say? Have a look for yourself. Buckle up first, you're about to go for a roller-coaster ride down the rabbit hole.

Need a break from :tinfoil: theories, or just something to take your mind off poor Datu, Glenn and Jay?

Head over to the Reptrivia area when today's quiz just posted a few minutes ago and the weekly quiz is quite a doozie. Offering Rep and a few bottles of water to anyone who can score a perfect 100%. As of right now nobody has been able to do it yet (though several have been extremely close).

Come test your We're Alive knowledge and have some fun. Will you you be the first to get a perfect score?

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Originally Posted by Unit9014

Need a break from :tinfoil: theories, or just something to take your mind off poor Datu, Glenn and Jay?

Head over to the Reptrivia area when today's quiz just posted a few minutes ago and the weekly quiz is quite a doozie. Offering Rep and a few bottles of water to anyone who can score a perfect 100%. As of right now nobody has been able to do it yet (though several have been extremely close).

Come test your We're Alive knowledge and have some fun. Will you you be the first to get a perfect score?

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I was one that was pretty close :'(

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Originally Posted by Red Shirt

Not said, per se, but the tattoos have been featured in cover art. Notably, the cover for Chapter 27 and the infamous TOWTM bust picture.

I, along with the help of several luminaries here on the forums, have done considerable analysis, conjecture and theorizing on the nature and meaning behind the tattoo; here in the theory section of the forum.

While we have been able to assign possible meanings to individual segments... we really haven't been able to cohesively tie it together. It is as if we have been given a jigsaw, but there are several puzzles in the box, though we don't know how many and there are a lot of pieces missing.

A formula you say? Have a look for yourself. Buckle up first, you're about to go for a roller-coaster ride down the rabbit hole.

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I actually found this thread two nights ago, and I've got to admit, it is by far the mist interesting and in depth analysis I've seen on here. The theories you and others raised from Ink's symbols were really insightful and I think I'm going to have to read it over again a few times in order for my brain to fully digest it all :)

Am I also right in assuming that the "follistatin shopping list" note found at Raydon Labs in Chapter 39 also contained strange symbols that Michael et al could't decipher? Perhaps on some level, the biters can decipher them. That would explain how they instantly recognised Ink as their leader when he escaped the prisoner van, and would also explain how they were actually able to read the note aswell.

Hasn't even been a week and i'm itching for the next episode, even though it won't be ready for over another week.....

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Originally Posted by Gooer

Hasn't even been a week and i'm itching for the next episode, even though it won't be ready for over another week.....

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You may want to have that check out.

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Originally Posted by Red Shirt

Not said, per se, but the tattoos have been featured in cover art. Notably, the cover for Chapter 27 and the infamous TOWTM bust picture.

I, along with the help of several luminaries here on the forums, have done considerable analysis, conjecture and theorizing on the nature and meaning behind the tattoo; here in the theory section of the forum.

While we have been able to assign possible meanings to individual segments... we really haven't been able to cohesively tie it together. It is as if we have been given a jigsaw, but there are several puzzles in the box, though we don't know how many and there are a lot of pieces missing.

A formula you say? Have a look for yourself. Buckle up first, you're about to go for a roller-coaster ride down the rabbit hole.

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Just from first glance of the the detailed picture. I would say they are alchemy symbols.

I am actually kinda shocked that we didn't get more information about Ink's tattoos when we found the court records.......

usually they take pictures of tattoos when you enter any kind of jail or prison so that they can keep up with things like gang activity, etc, etc.....

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Originally Posted by Gnex

I am actually kinda shocked that we didn't get more information about Ink's tattoos when we found the court records.......

usually they take pictures of tattoos when you enter any kind of jail or prison so that they can keep up with things like gang activity, etc, etc.....

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Unless we are going to take a trip to the jail where ink was held.......

I have been going back listening to past episodes trying to figure out who Victor might know that no one else does.

And the episode where Tardust is talking about how the zombies are scared of Bricks because he can just rip their arms off........

Tardust says something like "This other time when we were at the jail....." and then he stops as something happens outside.

But, as a prisoner, why would you get out of prison and then go back to a jail??? Looking for something maybe???

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Originally Posted by Gnex

I have been going back listening to past episodes trying to figure out who Victor might know that no one else does.

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Aye, I was wondering the same thing. Wasn't Victor an insurance agent? Maybe someone from the colony since the photo was never shown to anyone else from there.

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Originally Posted by cringebot

Aye, I was wondering the same thing. Wasn't Victor an insurance agent? Maybe someone from the colony since the photo was never shown to anyone else from there.

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Tanya saw the photo, and she was from the colony.

And Hope was from the Colony too. Maybe when she sees the photo.

Oh, wait...

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Originally Posted by tonyhind86

And Hope was from the Colony too. Maybe when she sees the photo.

Oh, wait...

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Oh you went there.
Just like Angel did on top of the Tower with the zipline....

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Originally Posted by Gnex

Unless we are going to take a trip to the jail where ink was held.......

I have been going back listening to past episodes trying to figure out who Victor might know that no one else does.

And the episode where Tardust is talking about how the zombies are scared of Bricks because he can just rip their arms off........

Tardust says something like "This other time when we were at the jail....." and then he stops as something happens outside.

But, as a prisoner, why would you get out of prison and then go back to a jail??? Looking for something maybe???

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I just relistened to that episode a couple days ago. Doesn't he say Police station instead of jail? I'll have to go back and check again. I assumed they were getting equipment and supplies from there like CJ did but maybe I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by tonyhind86

Tanya saw the photo, and she was from the colony.

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That's right. Hmm, well Austin McKibben is important. He's from Atlanta. He's on trial for murder. His case papers were near Ink's. Maybe he was in the truck with ink? The only other thing I can think of is somehow he will tie the story back to the prisoners, but he's important.

I wanted to ask, is Ink dead? They said he had no mental problems prior and then went schizophrenic. They also said he knew what he was doing when they saw the corpses, which leads me to believe that he may have been experimenting on them?

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Originally Posted by cringebot

That's right. Hmm, well Austin McKibben is important. He's from Atlanta. He's on trial for murder. His case papers were near Ink's. Maybe he was in the truck with ink? The only other thing I can think of is somehow he will tie the story back to the prisoners, but he's important.

I wanted to ask, is Ink dead? They said he had no mental problems prior and then went schizophrenic. They also said he knew what he was doing when they saw the corpses, which leads me to believe that he may have been experimenting on them?

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Maybe he faked the signs of schizophrenia to support his insanity plea - he certainly has the intelligence to pull off the act.
As for Austin McKibben, I think it's Bricks, the guy who was minding Lizzy. Only Victor got a good look at him before the battle at the Colony - then that would support your notion of a tie-in to the prisoners.

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Originally Posted by cringebot

Aye, I was wondering the same thing. Wasn't Victor an insurance agent? Maybe someone from the colony since the photo was never shown to anyone else from there.

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I'm not sure if victor was in Insurance or not....... It seems like I remember hearing that somewhere.......

But I was just listening to the episodes with Pippen.... and Pippen says he was a salesman and Victor laughs at him and says he is "useless"......

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Originally Posted by Unit9014

I just relistened to that episode a couple days ago. Doesn't he say Police station instead of jail? I'll have to go back and check again. I assumed they were getting equipment and supplies from there like CJ did but maybe I'm wrong.

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You are probably right Unit...... I bet you that is where they got all their radio equipment and stuff.......

At some point Victor tells someone (Saul or Michael) he is an insurance sales man. I don't remember when though.
it's probably all lies... much like anything Kc says... damn lies

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Originally Posted by Gnex

You are probably right Unit...... I bet you that is where they got all their radio equipment and stuff.......

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Good point

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Originally Posted by Gooer

I was one that was pretty close :'(

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Everyone seemed to be missing the question for Jakob and James on the weekly Reptrivia, so I checked the Wiki and it looks like the call signs that Angel says in ch22 and what is listed on the Wiki contradict each other, so to make it fair I removed those two from the list and anyone who got 85% or higher before the change is getting some Rep. Sorry for the confusion guys.

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Originally Posted by Unit9014

Everyone seemed to be missing the question for Jakob and James on the weekly Reptrivia, so I checked the Wiki and it looks like the call signs that Angel says in ch22 and what is listed on the Wiki contradict each other, so to make it fair I removed those two from the list and anyone who got 85% or higher before the change is getting some Rep. Sorry for the confusion guys.

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I tried the quiz on my phone and the safari browser crashed. Mind, I know I wouldn't have gotten a few of them right. The preceding two were right up my alley though because I've just listened to the episodes :D

Keep up the good work dude, these quizzes are great!

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Originally Posted by tonyhind86

I tried the quiz on my phone and the safari browser crashed. Mind, I know I wouldn't have gotten a few of them right. The preceding two were right up my alley though because I've just listened to the episodes :D

Keep up the good work dude, these quizzes are great!

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Those two are still confusing though to me. Just listened to 22-1 again and Angel says Bluejay and Robin are Jakob and James. You look at the wiki for ch22 and it lists Bluejay and Robin = Jakob and James. But then you go to Jakob and James individual pages and it lists them the other way around. I don't know... Whatever they are both dead now I think. They went down with the tower.

And thanks, I enjoy making the quizzes.

Ink tin foil hat theory...
What if Ink stumbled across something and then knew that the outbreak was going to start? Something along the lines of "Hm...there is no cover page on this random TPS report left on the printer. I'm gonna read it" and that leads him to another thing and then another and he realizes that the outbreak is going to happen no matter what. STICK WITH ME! If your spouse were to then cheat on you and you knew the end of the world was around the corner...what would you do?? What I think Ink did is decide to do was get revenge 10 fold since it wouldn't matter once the outbreak started. So he then gets arrested, and what is the best way for people to think you are bat shit crazy? Tell them it's the end of the world! Now he is sitting in the jail and thinks to himself....I've always wanted a tattoo! He gets himself an impressive array of randomness all over his face, hands, etc. Next thing he knows, he is sitting in the back of the van and sees zombies are coming for him. What does he do? He puts on some powerman 5000 and lets it happen.!

Ok, Maybe some holes in this! I have no clue about the tattoos or why he ended up different. But the murders and plea I think make some sense.

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Originally Posted by Unit9014

Everyone seemed to be missing the question for Jakob and James on the weekly Reptrivia, so I checked the Wiki and it looks like the call signs that Angel says in ch22 and what is listed on the Wiki contradict each other, so to make it fair I removed those two from the list and anyone who got 85% or higher before the change is getting some Rep. Sorry for the confusion guys.

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YAAAAAAY!

I didn't even think about the wiki, i just tried to do it from memory, and i wasn't sure if they specified which one was which....

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Originally Posted by Unit9014

Whatever they are both dead now I think. They went down with the tower.

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Well. That escalated quickly.

Ahhhh! My brain has been going nuts all day! I got sucked into reading more of the forum while listening to season 1 again and was bombarded with clarity moments and it's been killing me. Ok... Here I go. Bare with me.

1. Austin = Skittles
Think about it. Victor and Saul did a ton of research back at Dunbar during Season 3. That's how they found the Kalani file and the Kalani storyline was pieced together, but whose to say the boys stopped there!? They also watched the footage from when Ink stormed Dunbar and could have gotten a glimpse of Skittles there.... Unless I'm horribly mistaken (wouldn't be the first time!) I cannot remember for the life of me if we have been told Skittles real name. Also, no one else in that little group looking at the files would recognize Skittles. Victor is the only one that has a slight chance of having seen Skittles face before but not enough to remember it. Plus, Skittles was made too prominent of a character early on with no follow through... Is this the follow through?

2. Saul's Immunity
I'm absolutely enthralled by the biological aspect of this story. From the very beginning a pretty scientific approach has been laid down for all the pieces. (Hell look at the follistatin and pallets of Preparation H. Holy moly science!) in chap7 Blood, Sweat, and Fears, the towerites are testing the scent/pheromones theory. It is specifically stated that a bottle labeled SAUL is the first bottle dropped with absolutely no zombie reaction. It isn't until another unnamed bottle (meaning it's only important to note the non-reaction to Saul's bottle rather than the actual reaction of any other person's bottle) is dropped that the zeds react in their dog-in-heat fashion. Thus, proving that Saul's immunity is a biological/genetic occurrence rather than an antibiotic cocktail. It also proves that the zeds can sniff out immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality in a persons pheromones. Also, supports why Tanya experienced an attempted kidnapping and not an actual killing. Haha! I've got you now KC!

My next thought bunny with this is Datu's apparent immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality to his many up close and personal experiences with the creatures (*chest pound for Tommy* miss you little buddy). I'm not sure what the link could be there, but it's there.... Somewhere.

3. (I know! More!? WTH Katie! Stick with me please!) I remember way back in the day of my WA history, KC once explained that this is NOT a zombie story, but a story of survival. I know everyone knows that, but I feel there's a huge aspect being missed. This is a war story. There are definite two sides to this war and a major strategists on team zombie. The attacks are definitely retaliatory. This last bit is more of me pushing myself out of the zombie genre and into the war genre. *insert Platoon reference here* Datu is for sure a set-up.

K. :D my third or fourth major input on the forum, please be kind.

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Originally Posted by katlero

Ahhhh! My brain has been going nuts all day! I got sucked into reading more of the forum while listening to season 1 again and was bombarded with clarity moments and it's been killing me. Ok... Here I go. Bare with me.

1. Austin = Skittles
Think about it. Victor and Saul did a ton of research back at Dunbar during Season 3. That's how they found the Kalani file and the Kalani storyline was pieced together, but whose to say the boys stopped there!? They also watched the footage from when Ink stormed Dunbar and could have gotten a glimpse of Skittles there.... Unless I'm horribly mistaken (wouldn't be the first time!) I cannot remember for the life of me if we have been told Skittles real name. Also, no one else in that little group looking at the files would recognize Skittles. Victor is the only one that has a slight chance of having seen Skittles face before but not enough to remember it. Plus, Skittles was made too prominent of a character early on with no follow through... Is this the follow through?

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Skittles once told Angel that his name is Duncan, but did not give a full name.

Now, that could be a lie, or a middle name. But CJ's info should have more info on him since he lived at Dunbar before the attack.

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Originally Posted by katlero

Ahhhh! My brain has been going nuts all day! I got sucked into reading more of the forum while listening to season 1 again and was bombarded with clarity moments and it's been killing me. Ok... Here I go. Bare with me.

1. Austin = Skittles
Think about it. Victor and Saul did a ton of research back at Dunbar during Season 3. That's how they found the Kalani file and the Kalani storyline was pieced together, but whose to say the boys stopped there!? They also watched the footage from when Ink stormed Dunbar and could have gotten a glimpse of Skittles there.... Unless I'm horribly mistaken (wouldn't be the first time!) I cannot remember for the life of me if we have been told Skittles real name. Also, no one else in that little group looking at the files would recognize Skittles. Victor is the only one that has a slight chance of having seen Skittles face before but not enough to remember it. Plus, Skittles was made too prominent of a character early on with no follow through... Is this the follow through?

2. Saul's Immunity
I'm absolutely enthralled by the biological aspect of this story. From the very beginning a pretty scientific approach has been laid down for all the pieces. (Hell look at the follistatin and pallets of Preparation H. Holy moly science!) in chap7 Blood, Sweat, and Fears, the towerites are testing the scent/pheromones theory. It is specifically stated that a bottle labeled SAUL is the first bottle dropped with absolutely no zombie reaction. It isn't until another unnamed bottle (meaning it's only important to note the non-reaction to Saul's bottle rather than the actual reaction of any other person's bottle) is dropped that the zeds react in their dog-in-heat fashion. Thus, proving that Saul's immunity is a biological/genetic occurrence rather than an antibiotic cocktail. It also proves that the zeds can sniff out immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality in a persons pheromones. Also, supports why Tanya experienced an attempted kidnapping and not an actual killing. Haha! I've got you now KC!

My next thought bunny with this is Datu's apparent immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality to his many up close and personal experiences with the creatures (*chest pound for Tommy* miss you little buddy). I'm not sure what the link could be there, but it's there.... Somewhere.

3. (I know! More!? WTH Katie! Stick with me please!) I remember way back in the day of my WA history, KC once explained that this is NOT a zombie story, but a story of survival. I know everyone knows that, but I feel there's a huge aspect being missed. This is a war story. There are definite two sides to this war and a major strategists on team zombie. The attacks are definitely retaliatory. This last bit is more of me pushing myself out of the zombie genre and into the war genre. *insert Platoon reference here* Datu is for sure a set-up.

K. :D my third or fourth major input on the forum, please be kind.

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Duncan was Skittles name at the tower so I don't think he is Austin

Some great points all in all.

I do think Datu and the watermill ambush is a total retaliatory war move. There is a strong possibility Datu is either going to bring more Colonists out or turn and infect the colony. Plus the zeds have jeopardized the water situation.

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Originally Posted by tonyhind86

Maybe he faked the signs of schizophrenia to support his insanity plea - he certainly has the intelligence to pull off the act.
As for Austin McKibben, I think it's Bricks, the guy who was minding Lizzy. Only Victor got a good look at him before the battle at the Colony - then that would support your notion of a tie-in to the prisoners.

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I'm starting to come around to Bricks being Austin McKibben, as I don't think Victor got a good look at Tardust, as much as I wish to see his character come back into play and add drama to it all (along with expertise in explosives).

While we all seem to be focusing on McKibbins, what about Ink's cellmate, Cohen, who snuck in the ink cocktail? Who might he be? Could he be Tardust? Or, perhaps with his apparent knowledge of chemicals, could he be pre-zombie Randy? Any thoughts about Cohen?