Chapter 47-1 The Lion's Den

[Kc]

Here we go!

[LiamKerrington]

First one!

[LiamKerrington]

Everyone's at least half as excited as I am???

[Verse]

I am. I am on pins and needles. This is the best thing about Mondays.

[nikvoodoo]

Thanks Kc. I've been eating bowl fulls of crow at work this morning and never got a chance until now to get here.

[Grognaurd]

Ruh-Roh, the last threat was the chopter...

Zombie Pterodactyls! Hoff was right!

[LiamKerrington]

"It's because of us. We are responsible for how bad things have gotten."

Says it all ...

[UndeadSweeper]

"It's because of us. We are responsible for how bad things have gotten."

Says it all ...

To Counter:

All they doing is surviving like Ink wants too. So it isn't all Michael fault. Nik pass the crow.

[Jannit]

All of these flashbacks kind of threw me for a loop at the start but they definitely were handy for refreshing the memory.


Ruh-Roh, the last threat was the chopter...

Zombie Pterodactyls! Hoff was right!

A flying zombie? How would that even work?!

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the idea that Ink is only reactive to threats and is nearly innocent in all of this. Yeah, yeah, I know he's not innocent but this is definitely the vibe I was getting from the episode.

Humans are the threat, zombies defend themselves from the horrible humans. I suppose this might explain why he never attacked CJ when the tower fell but ... ugh. There has got to be something more to all of this.

Did Ink WANT to be turned? Did he know this was coming? Why does he need protection symbols if zombies are just a new species or stage in evolution? Would the other zombies attack him? Did he never intend to be turned in the first- wait. IS he turned? Do we have confirmation that Ink is a real zombie? I know everything points to yes but could that be something we're missing? Why would he spend so much time with the tattoos to protect himself against zombies only to turn into one? Isn't that some big waste of time?

So many questions to try and wrap my head around. This episode definitely needs a few more dozen listens.

[Footbutt]

i really enjoyed the style of this episode.

it was a little painful to hear all of the fallen commrades' voices, though.

[Jannit]

Also, why do they want Datu, Tanya and Saul? Is Ink trying to use them as translators? Maybe he's hoping they can bridge the communication gap. Then again, how would he know they wouldn't turn on the spot? Do they smell differently? Zombie translator scents?

[UndeadSweeper]

All of these flashbacks kind of threw me for a loop at the start but they definitely were handy for refreshing the memory.



A flying zombie? How would that even work?!

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the idea that Ink is only reactive to threats and is nearly innocent in all of this. Yeah, yeah, I know he's not innocent but this is definitely the vibe I was getting from the episode.

Humans are the threat, zombies defend themselves from the horrible humans. I suppose this might explain why he never attacked CJ when the tower fell but ... ugh. There has got to be something more to all of this.

Did Ink WANT to be turned? Did he know this was coming? Why does he need protection symbols if zombies are just a new species or stage in evolution? Would the other zombies attack him? Did he never intend to be turned in the first- wait. IS he turned? Do we have confirmation that Ink is a real zombie? I know everything points to yes but could that be something we're missing? Why would he spend so much time with the tattoos to protect himself against zombies only to turn into one? Isn't that some big waste of time?

So many questions to try and wrap my head around. This episode definitely needs a few more dozen listens.

After what Tanya said I think Ink had no clue that this was going to happen. The symbols were apart of his madness and try to survive the trial. He just happen to find a primal symbol that work on creature of low int or animistic instincts.

[Merlin1274]

SAUL!!!! He is Branded!!!! Things are coming together.. Bill Roberts had no knowledge of the outbreak till after.. He was afraid of Death so he tattooed himself with all the protection markings from all cultures. His experiments were to figure it all out.

Tanya mentioning his being infected fixed him.. Now so much makes since.

Omega Man. I am Legend. Etc.. Men were the monsters in the Dark. Not the other way.

[Kc]

Did Ink WANT to be turned? Did he know this was coming? Why does he need protection symbols if zombies are just a new species or stage in evolution? Would the other zombies attack him? Did he never intend to be turned in the first- wait. IS he turned? Do we have confirmation that Ink is a real zombie? I know everything points to yes but could that be something we're missing? Why would he spend so much time with the tattoos to protect himself against zombies only to turn into one? Isn't that some big waste of time?

So many questions to try and wrap my head around. This episode definitely needs a few more dozen listens.

The answer to much of this is in the story already, but you have to find the clues. This episode had a bunch to the "whys", but I'll let the forum connect some of the dots.

[Jannit]

After what Tanya said I think Ink had no clue that this was going to happen. The symbols were apart of his madness and try to survive the trial. He just happen to find a primal symbol that work on creature of low int or animistic instincts.

So you're saying that Ink got all of the protection tattoos to protect him from the trial and it was just a happy accident that they also worked with the zombies?

[UndeadSweeper]

Also, why do they want Datu, Tanya and Saul? Is Ink trying to use them as translators? Maybe he's hoping they can bridge the communication gap. Then again, how would he know they wouldn't turn on the spot? Do they smell differently? Zombie translator scents?

At first thought it was because the they all have a common trend. Is it that they are minority? The only thing is Randy isn't a minority unless red hairs makes you a minority. Is that correct redbeard?

[UndeadSweeper]

So you're saying that Ink got all of the protection tattoos to protect him from the trial and it was just a happy accident that they also worked with the zombies?

Yup, I believe that Tanya was said. I know it sound a bit odd but that would explain why this happen around the world since Ink isn't the source just act on the event.

[Verse]

My Thoughts!

-Saul getting away was just like Datu. Bitten and Marked. They said that they were being targeted. Datu Multiple times, Tanya. Making Smart Ones to help him out. I am thinking Saul was a happy accident. Saul doesn't seem 'Smart One' to me. Betting it was just Randy being a dick.

-Liking that Ink may have just been a happy accident as well. He Tattooed himself up scared the poop of dieing. Still odd he put his hand out of the van. Someone is scared of dieing so he lets himself get bite? May have just heard it wrong. Testing the symbols at the jail was awesome. Liking how that is turning out. I don't agree with Tanya on them being the reason though. So they are supposed to just die? I see what she is saying though. It is so bad there b/c they are the only ones putting up a fight.

-Tattoo on Randy aka... HOLY SHIT I GOT SOMETHING RIGHT! I am good at understanding character, but my theories are always crap. I finally got one right. During the Season 3 Finale, when Saul said 'A bearded man with a mark on his face', I said "That is Randy. Ink Tattoo'd his face. Marked him as a Lieutenant" (Based it off the Little ones being Tattoo'd) and such. Jesus I was right. I am happy. Hooray! Not used to this feeling.

-Ink being turned may have made him sane aka.. HOLY SHIT I MAY HAVE GOTTEN TWO THINGS RIGHT????? I tossed this out a while back. Near beginning of season 4 When we saw how Datu acted and described being turned I brought it up again. I thought that maybe being turned focused Ink's brain and made him less crazy do to such. Maybe I was playing the long game with my theories and didn't know it. Maybe that "Ink is Father and Son" idea that KC said was wrong may really be true! (j/k)

-Something growing down below. That is creepy. Not sure what it could be. Little Ones are already almost unstoppable. Can't see what else can be done. Scary thought though. What else can be done?

One of the best episodes on a while.

[Jannit]

At first thought it was because the they all have a common trend. Is it that they are minority? The only thing is Randy isn't a minority unless red hairs makes you a minority. Is that correct redbeard?

I found this pie chart showing the breakdown of race for the total population:
3161

Given that "european" or white looks like it's in the minority I'm not sure if your idea fits. Then again, we don't know what's going on in the rest of the world.

[turbo]

So Pegs is the artist, find her a kit and tattoo everyone!

Loved this episode, so close to the end, and a lot of questions being answered.

So if it's only this bad here, I wonder if LA is the only place with Behemoths, Little Ones, etc?

[UndeadSweeper]

I found this pie chart showing the breakdown of race for the total population:
3161

Given that "european" or white looks like it's in the minority I'm not sure if your idea fits. Then again, we don't know what's going on in the rest of the world.

Maybe they smell differently?


So Pegs is the artist, find her a kit and tattoo everyone!

Loved this episode, so close to the end, and a lot of questions being answered.

So if it's only this bad here, I wonder if LA is the only place with Behemoths, Little Ones, etc?

Just a tattoo? I see a flag being sewn up by Pegs at this points with that symbol. :)

[katlero]

Cannot focus at work while listening! Omg! Soooo many revelations!

[UndeadSweeper]

Has anyone seen the cover photo for this one? Vic looks like a badass on it. Can I get that on a poster or something?

[Kc]

[QUOTE=Verse;77444
-Liking that Ink may have just been a happy accident as well. He Tattooed himself up scared the poop of dieing. Still odd he put his hand out of the van. Someone is scared of dieing so he lets himself get bite? May have just heard it wrong. Testing the symbols at the jail was awesome. Liking how that is turning out. I don't agree with Tanya on them being the reason though. So they are supposed to just die? I see what she is saying though. It is so bad there b/c they are the only ones putting up a fight.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure where the idea that he stuck out his arm came from; it was more like they broke out the windows on both sides and grabbed what they could- an arm.

[Verse]

I'm not sure where the idea that he stuck out his arm came from; it was more like they broke out the windows on both sides and grabbed what they could- an arm.

Got ya. That was just my memory being bad. Thanks for clearing that up!

[Kc]

Has anyone seen the cover photo for this one? Vic looks like a badass on it. Can I get that on a poster or something?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/WA_S4_June15-C.jpg

[Jannit]

I'm not sure where the idea that he stuck out his arm came from; it was more like they broke out the windows on both sides and grabbed what they could- an arm.

Any chance you (or anyone) can point me in the direction of which episode that was?

[Gooer]

Well it seems im late to the party. Better download it now...

[HardKor]

Well I guess it was only a matter of time before it happened....a We're Alive Clip Show!
I joke of course, the flashbacks in this episode added something that I can't quite describe. It made the whole thing come off as a little more...epic I guess would be be a good word to describe it. Definitely set this episode apart from the rest. There really was a sense of all the pieces locking into place.

Humans act, Ink reacts.
This is interesting. It does give off that whole Humans are the real monsters vibe of works like I Am Legend and others. I wonder how it fits in going forward. What can the survivors do that won't exacerbate things even further? I still expect an expedition down into the tunnels (using KODI still seems to be the plan, plus I would expect a chapter called "The Lion's Den" to include an exploration of said den.) but to what end? Is there going to be a final showdown to end Ink once and for all? Perhaps some variation on the "trap the Zs in the tunnels" theory Or will the survivors actually try to reason with Ink somehow?

[Gooer]

Ooh was that Saul?

Wait, what are Vic and Michael doing...... Are they trying to lure them away to get to Saul....?

Oh shit, Little ones.....

YES SAUL IS THERE! But will he be ok.....? Oh his eyes are normal.....What the heck....

[Jannit]

In the very first episode when Saul, Angel and Michael are at the base and the zombies come in response to the alarm, there's the distinctive roar of a behemoth. At least it's the sound that I've always associated with the behemoths - if the roar is something else, please let me know!

If there IS a behemoth on Z-day Ink wouldn't have had a chance to do all of his experiments and that must mean that someone else created them to start with. I've stated before that it seems like there were zombies prior to Z-Day since Michael described the pack on the freeway as "scarred and bruised" which leads me to believe they were created ahead of time. This discounts the idea that Ink is only responding to threats. Someone else must be involved.

I've gotta re-listen to this show through this new lens.

[UndeadSweeper]

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/WA_S4_June15-C.jpg

Before anyone gets any idea, this is my new avatar. Hope you don't mind KC and the great artist who did this. My Vic fandom is finally complete.

[God]

I found this pie chart showing the breakdown of race for the total population:
3161

Given that "european" or white looks like it's in the minority I'm not sure if your idea fits. Then again, we don't know what's going on in the rest of the world.


Reminds me of the south park episode where they go to the pool and it's filled with mexicans (minorities). Kyle breaks it to him that since mexicans are the majorities in the pool, that makes HIM the minority haha. Good episode.

Anyways. I think i agree with you that it can't be that they only attack minorities in the U.S. because then how would the country be infected that much. Correct me if i'm wrong but don't white people outnumber all other ethnicities combined here in the states? It wouldn't be all that devastating if it's only minorities.
But then again.. we haven't really came across too many black people in the show, and none latley. I think all the black chareters came in season 1. That, and how is it that Victor is the only mexican left in LA. That seems unrealistic! Lol jk
I think this means that it's my turn to hold the crow

[Kc]

Any chance you (or anyone) can point me in the direction of which episode that was?

Chapter 40.

First mention:
MICHAEL (V.O.)
Near the entrance there was a van, with bars along the sides. The windows had been broken into and there were large dents all along the rear. The back doors were wide open, hanging broken on their hinges, almost touching the ground.


And later:

The deck plays. Sounds of them attacking the van are heard. A few gunshots in the background.
ROBBINS
Move, move I’m gonna record this with my camera-
KELLY
Good idea-
MICHAEL
I can’t believe you found it-
KELLY
Shhh-
The sounds of the van attack continue. A man inside can be heard.
MICHAEL (V.O.)
Three regulars starting attacking the back of the van with Roberts inside, breaking in the windows trying to get to him. At one point it looked as if they got his arm-
(beat)
And then moments later, he stopped fighting back.

----------------

I think the confusion is with "He stopped fighting back"; really it's talking about how he was starting to change at that point.

[Gooer]

Well, rescue mission successful. And Saul knew it was Randy... Wonder how Randy will react to Saul not turning....

Well, like we thought, smart ones can see through the disguise-o-smell.
Oh boy, there IS something new after all.... wonder what it is...... Maybe like the Alien Queen, able to mass produce a stronger version of the Little ones....?

[Kc]

In the very first episode when Saul, Angel and Michael are at the base and the zombies come in response to the alarm, there's the distinctive roar of a behemoth. At least it's the sound that I've always associated with the behemoths - if the roar is something else, please let me know!

If there IS a behemoth on Z-day Ink wouldn't have had a chance to do all of his experiments and that must mean that someone else created them to start with. I've stated before that it seems like there were zombies prior to Z-Day since Michael described the pack on the freeway as "scarred and bruised" which leads me to believe they were created ahead of time. This discounts the idea that Ink is only responding to threats. Someone else must be involved.

I've gotta re-listen to this show through this new lens.

Not a Behemoth, but smart ones have been known to call others. Behemoths have a very distinct, but different sound. It's far lower in bass. Behemoths weren't around from Day 1.

[Merlin1274]

I vote they all Pack up and leave... Go north. Further than Boulder. Find a new home. Leave Ink a note. You can have LA. We leave in Peace. Right before a nuke goes off in his face..

I have always thought the specials were centralized to LA because of ink.

[Bullethead]

If there IS a behemoth on Z-day Ink wouldn't have had a chance to do all of his experiments and that must mean that someone else created them to start with. I've stated before that it seems like there were zombies prior to Z-Day since Michael described the pack on the freeway as "scarred and bruised" which leads me to believe they were created ahead of time. This discounts the idea that Ink is only responding to threats. Someone else must be involved.
I've gotta re-listen to this show through this new lens.

I'm with you here Jannit. Especially when Tanya broke it down about the cells. I don't know the timeline just isn't adding up for me.

Great episode though KC, loved the flash backs.

My question I am left with here. Why, AGAIN, did Michael shoo off people asking about Randy something like EDIT: "Who he is doesn't right now"? ENOUGH of this sh*t Michael. Just enough! Your going to leave out some details that could save freaking lives!

[Kc]

Reminds me of the south park episode where they go to the pool and it's filled with mexicans (minorities). Kyle breaks it to him that since mexicans are the majorities in the pool, that makes HIM the minority haha. Good episode.

Anyways. I think i agree with you that it can't be that they only attack minorities in the U.S. because then how would the country be infected that much. Correct me if i'm wrong but don't white people outnumber all other ethnicities combined here in the states? It wouldn't be all that devastating if it's only minorities.
But then again.. we haven't really came across too many black people in the show, and none latley. I think all the black chareters came in season 1. That, and how is it that Victor is the only mexican left in LA. That seems unrealistic! Lol jk
I think this means that it's my turn to hold the crow

The curb any racial matters, I will let you know it has nothing to do with race.

[Jannit]

Chapter 40.

First mention:
MICHAEL (V.O.)
Near the entrance there was a van, with bars along the sides. The windows had been broken into and there were large dents all along the rear. The back doors were wide open, hanging broken on their hinges, almost touching the ground.


And later:

The deck plays. Sounds of them attacking the van are heard. A few gunshots in the background.
ROBBINS
Move, move I’m gonna record this with my camera-
KELLY
Good idea-
MICHAEL
I can’t believe you found it-
KELLY
Shhh-
The sounds of the van attack continue. A man inside can be heard.
MICHAEL (V.O.)
Three regulars starting attacking the back of the van with Roberts inside, breaking in the windows trying to get to him. At one point it looked as if they got his arm-
(beat)
And then moments later, he stopped fighting back.

----------------

I think the confusion is with "He stopped fighting back"; really it's talking about how he was starting to change at that point.

This is awesome, thanks very much! Are we to take this green bit as confirmation that Ink was actually bit by the attacking zombies? Nothing in the rest of it says they actually bit him. They could have stopped attacking when they got a clearer view of Ink's beautiful tattoos! :tinfoil:


Not a Behemoth, but smart ones have been known to call others. Behemoths have a very distinct, but different sound. It's far lower in bass. Behemoths weren't around from Day 1.

Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification. I'd always associated that noise with behemoths.

[Gooer]

Hmm, so they try to attack the same place when they want to turn them.......

And they scratch them with a symbol....BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

[UndeadSweeper]

The curb any racial matters, I will let you know it has nothing to do with race.

Sorry, I mean no offense by my original comment. It was a tinfoil theory. But still you haven't explain why there only one Vic in all of LA :rolleyes:

[Kc]

I vote they all Pack up and leave... Go north. Further than Boulder. Find a new home. Leave Ink a note. You can have LA. We leave in Peace. Right before a nuke goes off in his face..

I have always thought the specials were centralized to LA because of ink.

To quote Michael from season 3:

PUCK
Gotta fix it first, the place is all fucked up, but we can keep them out, right?
MICHAEL
No.
DATU
But we can if we just-
MICHAEL
What? We keep running? We put thousands of miles between us and it didn’t matter. It still found us.
(beat)
I’m tired of leaving, hiding, putting up walls just for them to tear them down. It doesn’t make a difference. We lose people anyway, just slower. There’s less of us, and more of them. And they keep getting worse.
SAUL
What are you saying we should do?
MICHAEL
Enough’s enough. I’m tried of being on the defense-
(beat)
It’s time for us to go to them.

-----------------

Season 3 was all about the option of trying to run away... no matter how far you go, it would just be a matter of time before they caught up.

[Verse]

Humans act, Ink reacts.
This is interesting. It does give off that whole Humans are the real monsters vibe of works like I Am Legend and others. I wonder how it fits in going forward. What can the survivors do that won't exacerbate things even further? I still expect an expedition down into the tunnels (using KODI still seems to be the plan, plus I would expect a chapter called "The Lion's Den" to include an exploration of said den.) but to what end? Is there going to be a final showdown to end Ink once and for all? Perhaps some variation on the "trap the Zs in the tunnels" theory Or will the survivors actually try to reason with Ink somehow?

I still think it is just that Ink just wants to kill them. I don't think there is any reasoning with him. I think it is more of a 'Just like the Characters have grown to reflect the environment, so has Ink and Co'. He was ambushing convoys. There was no he sent an emissary..Humans went "THIS IS SPARTA!" and he reacted. It seems more of "Well shit. They locked themselves in a Tower. How do I kill them now?" and "God Dammit. They got soldiers. Need to step it up". Them being there is making it worse, but I don't see them to blame. Ink is just evolving and finding ways to kill them.

Tanya is the only one that has said so. When she and Kelly were talking she said "This looks retaliatory. We hit him and he hits us" and Kelly blew her off. Tanya is the one again saying "We caused this".

I would agree with her in Ink wasn't gathering people up, attacking Convoys, ect. He started work on the Little Ones and Behemoths right away. Given that the rest of the Zombies just want to kill Humans, I think Ink just wants to do the same. Tanya is just trying to find reason in madness.

[Witch_Doctor]

Ha!!!!!!! Markings on the face!

Randy is definitely a Smart One;
1) He controlled the other Zs during the Tanya snatching. Keeping them from getting to close.
2) He ducked away from Micheal's fire just like the Smart one encountered by Micheal and Angel in the lobby in Chapter 2.

I also addressed, in my long but lost version of the original post, Ink attacking targets without Randy. Of course he set up ambushes, but he does wander around looking from roof tops and such. My point is that he may have used Randy to find locations of large groups of people in order to attack, home invasion style. There is just no explanation of how Ink could get this info from Randy.

1) Ink wasn't involved in the flower pot dropping because the Zombies went there on their own.
2) The Zs were CALLED to the Tower during the WAR with the sweat bottles.
3) Ink attacked the Tower the same day the Micheal was found/rescued from/near the Water Works. This is AFTER Randy and Micheal would have parted company.
Randy is not an INKLING but he is mentioned, repeatedly, as having a marking on his face, Uruk-Hai style.

Ink's special creation, just likes Saruman's special Orclings.
3160

Wait, there's more. Kelly was on to something about Ink's actions being in self-defense. Lizzy was on to something about being attacked when they're in large numbers. Ink uses Trojan Horses to infiltrate and destroy. Who else does this? Now, here is the Scratch Connection. (Thread: Has Scratch cut a deal? (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4605-Has-Scratch-cut-a-deal))


Chapter 27 part 2, 6:00. The mallers are proposing to send Kalani or Pippin to infiltrate Dunbar. Kalani asks, what have they done. Scratch replies, "It's what they could be."
Chapter 27 part 2, near the end. Dunbar is falling. Scratch isn't concerned that a potential home is being sacked. Kalani starts running.
Chapter 12, The War, and Chapter 28 part 1, 19:40. Scratch wants Kalani to fire a shot to start a war. She then tries to fire bomb the Tower. She has NO interest at all in taking to building for the Mallers' use. Again, Kalani was used to infiltrate the building.
Scratch travels throughout Zombie-land with ease: At night-Chapter 8 part one.
Lizzy says that Pinstripes seemed to know that he was being watched so he kept his face away from the camera in Chapter 11 (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Chapter+11).
Earlier Latch (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Latch) and Scratch cased the Tower's lobby.
When CJ's tower is under attack Scratch seemed nonchalant when Kalani (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Kalani) told her.

Almost like she knew or expected the attack to be under way.
CJ's tower attacked 3 days after Scratch sends Kalani.
Ink attacks Tower 3(?) days after Latch and Scratch's visit.


Ink's minion does attack Scratch's convoy on the way to attack the arena (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=The+Arena). Ink is seen there too.

Don't forget the hospital, where even though he was attacked he made no move against Riley, who was with Scratch's spy Kalani.


Now, Ink's psychological state and did he have advance knowledge of the outbreak. Tanya says that he is terribly afraid of dying. He uses a ton of protection symbols. So, was he trying to protect himself from being killed by zombies or was he trying to protect himself from, say, the death penalty? I'm guessing the former, and that he had some advance knowledge that it was coming. Using the symbols to protect from a death sentence seems like an appeal to the supernatural. Ink is a freaking scientist. A good one at that. Going supernatural doesn't seem his style. After turning, he even kept his experimental skills. Setting up different symbols above jail cells to see which ones worked, GENIUS! Also, I can't get over this contest entry by Deacon Tyler (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3637-COMPETITION-Create-your-own-journal-page!-(CONTAINS-SPOILERS)&p=48420&viewfull=1#post48420). The more we learn about Ink, the more chilling his entry becomes.

[Grognaurd]

Is Ink a zombie? Jannit
Not really. He has clear green eyes, people that turn seem to have cloudy eyes. The one little one that was autopsied also had clear eyes.

Is Ink Human?
Not really. He kicks open the van doors and wrenches the hinges. He jumps out a 2nd or Third story window and keeps running.

Ok, crazy time. Ink kicks open the doors because he does not know his own strength. Can we find another example of excessive strength? Yes, Pegs breaks a hammer early in season one. Ink is super tough. Do we have other examples? Yes, Saul. He gets kicked by special zombie capable of jumping across distances between buildings. A normal person can kick and double someone over. A strong kick can break ribs. A super jumper should be able to do much more damage. Saul takes a bullet in the shoulder. It should have passed right through. Did it go through Tommy first or is Saul's skin harder? At the colony, Saul takes another bullet. The vest is a civilian cop level. I assume no ceramic plates. Stop a hand gun, sure. Stop a rifle, I am not sure. Did Scratch have a handgun or rifle?

For me, just about everyone in this story operates at near super levels. I just think it is for story purposes, but maybe the Gas has Changed EVERYONE. Riley is not just a cook, she is a super cook. She shoots a movingntarget at range right in the eye. Burt has similar shooting skills, he says his eyes are going, but when TSHTF, he is perfect. Pegs is not a farmer, she is a super farmer. She goes from casual fixed wing pilot to chopper pilot in a day. Datu is an apartment complex handyman, but fixes the pelican and the people trained in repair and upkeep of choppers at Irwin cannot figure it out.

So, are all of these things that I let slide for story telling purposes, really part of the plot that nearly everyone has changed and have become more than human?

[Jannit]

Okay, hold on a sec. I have another question for people 'cause I haven't been asking enough*.

If the zombies are only defending themselves and Ink is purely reactionary why did they wipe out nearly all of humanity on Z-Day in the first place? Are they wired to think that ANY sound is a threat and that's why they attack?

*My sarcasm symbol

[Witch_Doctor]

To Counter:

All they doing is surviving like Ink wants too. So it isn't all Michael fault. Nik pass the crow.

Someone Jannit once posted that the title could refer to the zombies' perspective "WE'RE ALIVE!"

[Storm]

HOLYFUCKINGSHITTHISWASCRAAAZY!!
Today's reaction was brought to you by Storm, an always over reacting WA fan... Just ask his friends...

God, I love the use of flashbacks to support Tanya's theories... Nicely made!
So Ink's afraid of dying... Poor guy! But it makes sense indeed. Though it seems a bit ironic that a guy almost scared to death by the thought of dying (pun intended) murders a handful of people... Or maybe I'm just not psychopathic enough to understand his way of thinking :P
So... Kc... Is that Rainbow fan an actual symbol from somewhere or did you just create it yourself? It's so sad to spend hours upon hours googling if it turns out to be in vain.
Whether or not it's real... Where do the five lines meet? Top or buttom?

Hmm... So our beloved Dr Ink is making something new Down there... Little ones 2.0!! Damn, this is getting creepy! I Wonder how Scratch will fit in though... Maybe she shows up only to get eaten by one of the LO2s...

[Jannit]

Is Ink a zombie? Jannit
Not really. He has clear green eyes, people that turn seem to have cloudy eyes. The one little one that was autopsied also had clear eyes.

Is Ink Human?
Not really. He kicks open the van doors and wrenches the hinges. He jumps out a 2nd or Third story window and keeps running.

Good point! There's just so much to this story it amazes me that you can keep it all straight.



Ok, crazy time. Ink kicks open the doors because he does not know his own strength. Can we find another example of excessive strength? Yes, Pegs breaks a hammer early in season one. Ink is super tough. Do we have other examples? Yes, Saul. He gets kicked by special zombie capable of jumping across distances between buildings. A normal person can kick and double someone over. A strong kick can break ribs. A super jumper should be able to do much more damage. Saul takes a bullet in the shoulder. It should have passed right through. Did it go through Tommy first or is Saul's skin harder? At the colony, Saul takes another bullet. The vest is a civilian cop level. I assume no ceramic plates. Stop a hand gun, sure. Stop a rifle, I am not sure. Did Scratch have a handgun or rifle?

For me, just about everyone in this story operates at near super levels. I just think it is for story purposes, but maybe the Gas has Changed EVERYONE. Riley is not just a cook, she is a super cook. She shoots a movingntarget at range right in the eye. Burt has similar shooting skills, he says his eyes are going, but when TSHTF, he is perfect. Pegs is not a farmer, she is a super farmer. She goes from casual fixed wing pilot to chopper pilot in a day. Datu is an apartment complex handyman, but fixes the pelican and the people trained in repair and upkeep of choppers at Irwin cannot figure it out.

So, are all of these things that I let slide for story telling purposes, really part of the plot that nearly everyone has changed and have become more than human?

I like where you're going with this. By your logic if none of them are "really" human and extrodinary in some way, then there's no reason that Ink can't be a hyped up human too rather than a turned zombie. If the only examples of clear-eyed zombies are the Little Ones, perhaps only pure zombies have the clear eyes and hybrids all have the cloudy eyes. By that logic, Ink would have to be human as he couldn't be a pure zombie.

[Jannit]

Someone once posted that the title could refer to the zombies' perspective "WE'RE ALIVE!"

That'd be me. I've been clinging to that idea for quite a while.

[Witch_Doctor]

Ruh-Roh, the last threat was the chopter...

Zombie Pterodactyls! Hoff was right!
Funny that you channeled Scooby Doo. I imagined Tanya as Velma, Micheal as Brad, Pegs as Daphne during the monster reveal, when they were piecing together what they've learned so far. I'm Sooooo thankful for this episode.

[God]

Okay, i found my tin-foil hat. Let's see if it still fits.

1. Ink adapts to the human's attacks
2. Tanya mentioned that ink found out that he didn't have to do too much at one point because he saw that people will fight against each other anyway. That the mallers and our old tower folks were taking each other out.
3. Scratch is looking and fighting against our guys and she is currently MIA.

Here goes my theory. Scratch is ink's new experiment. He knows that scratch knows a lot about where and how to find them, who to target first, and how they will likely fight.
Ink snatched up scratch and turned her along with her 2 goons she still had when tar dust left, and he is giving her an army of a new kind of little ones.
I don't think there's enough time to end her story in the amount of time we have left to the show, so it makes sense to me that their stories will merge and become one somehow

[Merlin1274]

I know its far Fetched. Strap a small yield nuke to Kodi and send it into the Lion's Den. The blast would kill everything throughout the tunnel network..

[katlero]

In the very first episode when Saul, Angel and Michael are at the base and the zombies come in response to the alarm, there's the distinctive roar of a behemoth. At least it's the sound that I've always associated with the behemoths - if the roar is something else, please let me know!

If there IS a behemoth on Z-day Ink wouldn't have had a chance to do all of his experiments and that must mean that someone else created them to start with. I've stated before that it seems like there were zombies prior to Z-Day since Michael described the pack on the freeway as "scarred and bruised" which leads me to believe they were created ahead of time. This discounts the idea that Ink is only responding to threats. Someone else must be involved.

I've gotta re-listen to this show through this new lens.

SKITTLES! Skittles is the other person involved previously. Hence how he knows Ink will find him, or at least fears it, and everything else. Fine line between genius and insanity. Ink went insane before Z-Day and Skittles went insane after the attack on Dunbar when he realized who was causing all the mayhem and how far Ink could take it.

[UndeadSweeper]

HOLYFUCKINGSHITTHISWASCRAAAZY!!
Today's reaction was brought to you by Storm, an always over reacting WA fan... Just ask his friends...

God, I love the use of flashbacks to support Tanya's theories... Nicely made!
So Ink's afraid of dying... Poor guy! But it makes sense indeed. Though it seems a bit ironic that a guy almost scared to death by the thought of dying (pun intended) murders a handful of people... Or maybe I'm just not psychopathic enough to understand his way of thinking :P
So... Kc... Is that Rainbow fan an actual symbol from somewhere or did you just create it yourself? It's so sad to spend hours upon hours googling if it turns out to be in vain.
Whether or not it's real... Where do the five lines meet? Top or buttom?

Hmm... So our beloved Dr Ink is making something new Down there... Little ones 2.0!! Damn, this is getting creepy! I Wonder how Scratch will fit in though... Maybe she shows up only to get eaten by one of the LO2s...

I will start crack up if Scratch's scratch is protecting her from attacks.

Also time to name the new ones. LoBo (Little Ones Badass offsprings)

[UndeadSweeper]

I know its far Fetched. Strap a small yield nuke to Kodi and send it into the Lion's Den. The blast would kill everything throughout the tunnel network..

Wouldn't that also start a massive earthquake as well?

[Witch_Doctor]

HOLYFUCKINGSHITTHISWASCRAAAZY!!

So... Kc... Is that Rainbow fan an actual symbol from somewhere or did you just create it yourself? It's so sad to spend hours upon hours googling if it turns out to be in vain.
Whether or not it's real... Where do the five lines meet? Top or buttom?


I've been bugged about this for the longest time, too. Google is no help. Not sure if I wanted to ask KC, just in case it would have revealed something about the story. But, yeah. I wanna know too.

[Grognaurd]

Good point! There's just so much to this story it amazes me that you can keep it all straight.




I like where you're going with this. By your logic if none of them are "really" human and extrodinary in some way, then there's no reason that Ink can't be a hyped up human too rather than a turned zombie. If the only examples of clear-eyed zombies are the Little Ones, perhaps only pure zombies have the clear eyes and hybrids all have the cloudy eyes. By that logic, Ink would have to be human as he couldn't be a pure zombie.

Maybe something in between. If we go crazy :tinfoil: I think there have been about five or six mass extinctions where the most predominant life form is obliterated followed by a burst of evolution to fill the new niches. So, maybe some alien kid hits the evolution reset button and starts a new game, but all he gets to keep all of his unlockables in the new game, so the first part of he game goes really fast! Lol. Ok, kidding about the alien kid, but I do like the concept of human 2.0. Natural thing from the depth of the Earth? Some other performance enhancing drug made by Ink, or a combination of the two? A natural thing that Ink "tweaked"

[Witch_Doctor]

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Merlin1274 http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?p=77481#post77481)
I know its far Fetched. Strap a small yield nuke to Kodi and send it into the Lion's Den. The blast would kill everything throughout the tunnel network..



Wouldn't that also start a massive earthquake as well?

Like Superman the Movie? Not sure if the yield is that strong. I sometimes wondered if Kimmet strapped a nuke to KODI instead of C4, unbeknownst to Micheal. Seems like he could take out more zombies that way instead of the regular explosives.

[Witch_Doctor]

Did Ink WANT to be turned? Did he know this was coming? Why does he need protection symbols if zombies are just a new species or stage in evolution? Would the other zombies attack him? Did he never intend to be turned in the first- wait. IS he turned? Do we have confirmation that Ink is a real zombie? I know everything points to yes but could that be something we're missing? Why would he spend so much time with the tattoos to protect himself against zombies only to turn into one? Isn't that some big waste of time?

So many questions to try and wrap my head around. This episode definitely needs a few more dozen listens.

BINGO!!!! Skittles says that he's not a person anymore. Tanya says something about the infection helping him? His eyes are normal. He talks. BUT He has super-human zombie strengths (Or is he juicing too?)

[Gooer]

Flash backs..... to the soldiers..... ugh the feels.....

We should of known that the symbol with the untouched door meant it was protected......

And they are figuring out that Ink is reacting to whatever they throw at him. I mean, damn, that's clever.....

And saying that it has gotten worse at LA than any other place in the world, is because of them.....

Wow, did not ever see it as that...... not sure what to say......

[UndeadSweeper]

Like Superman the Movie? Not sure if the yield is that strong. I sometimes wondered if Kimmet strapped a nuke to KODI instead of C4, unbeknownst to Micheal. Seems like he could take out more zombies that way instead of the regular explosives.

LOL, I didn't even think about I was make a refer to that movie. But really, we should worry about a outbreak in Hoboken, NJ.

With all the symbol business we been going through I think someone would have spot a nuke symbol on KODI by now.

[Witch_Doctor]

So you're saying that Ink got all of the protection tattoos to protect him from the trial and it was just a happy accident that they also worked with the zombies?

That's what I got from KC too. But at the same time, I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that Ink is superstitious like that.


'How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?'

Sherlock Holmes Quote
-The Sign of Four

[Jannit]

BINGO!!!! Skittles says that he's not a person anymore. Tanya says something about the infection helping him? His eyes are normal. He talks. BUT He has super-human zombie strengths (Or is he juicing too?)

You just made me think of something... Maybe the superhuman qualities of zombies is really a reaction to the gas. Some people are changed by it to enhance their abilities, and some are killed by it due to ... something. I dunno. This would support what Grog says here:


Ok, crazy time. Ink kicks open the doors because he does not know his own strength. Can we find another example of excessive strength? Yes, Pegs breaks a hammer early in season one. Ink is super tough. Do we have other examples? Yes, Saul. He gets kicked by special zombie capable of jumping across distances between buildings. A normal person can kick and double someone over. A strong kick can break ribs. A super jumper should be able to do much more damage. Saul takes a bullet in the shoulder. It should have passed right through. Did it go through Tommy first or is Saul's skin harder? At the colony, Saul takes another bullet. The vest is a civilian cop level. I assume no ceramic plates. Stop a hand gun, sure. Stop a rifle, I am not sure. Did Scratch have a handgun or rifle?

For me, just about everyone in this story operates at near super levels. I just think it is for story purposes, but maybe the Gas has Changed EVERYONE. Riley is not just a cook, she is a super cook. She shoots a movingntarget at range right in the eye. Burt has similar shooting skills, he says his eyes are going, but when TSHTF, he is perfect. Pegs is not a farmer, she is a super farmer. She goes from casual fixed wing pilot to chopper pilot in a day. Datu is an apartment complex handyman, but fixes the pelican and the people trained in repair and upkeep of choppers at Irwin cannot figure it out.

So, are all of these things that I let slide for story telling purposes, really part of the plot that nearly everyone has changed and have become more than human?

Datu and Tanya are also probably those that would stand the best chance of turning into "Smart Ones" in that group, as an unrelated side note.

[Jannit]

Flash backs..... to the soldiers..... ugh the feels.....

We should of known that the symbol with the untouched door meant it was protected......

And they are figuring out that Ink is reacting to whatever they throw at him. I mean, damn, that's clever.....

And saying that it has gotten worse at LA than any other place in the world, is because of them.....

Wow, did not ever see it as that...... not sure what to say......

In our defense, we did come up with the theory about the symbol on the door meaning stop! So... yay us!

Agree with the rest of it. It's a lot to take in.

[Witch_Doctor]

I'm not sure where the idea that he stuck out his arm came from; it was more like they broke out the windows on both sides and grabbed what they could- an arm.


Speaking for myself, when Puck says that Ink wasn't even putting up a fight, it seemed like he was willingly getting infected.

[Gnex]

WE'RE ALIVE : A Story of Survival

[Gnex]

I would like to take this moment to say SAUL IS STILL ALIVE!!!!

Take that katlero

:squint:

[Malador]

Ink putting his arm out the window does make sense, given his fear of death. He sees that the infected are working together and killing humans, and he knows it is only a matter of time before the infected break into the van. By sticking his arm out and getting infected, he gives himself time to turn before they get in, ensuring that he lives, even if it is as a monster.

[LiamKerrington]

i really enjoyed the style of this episode.

it was a little painful to hear all of the fallen commrades' voices, though.

Me, too. Flashbacks ftw! But it is a matter of dosage as well ...

The question I have had a few minutes ago: What if Tanya's piecing together is just as aweful (or even worse) than what we do on this forum day-in and day-out???

[LiamKerrington]

A flying zombie? How would that even work?!

Wings. Super-Farts. Combination of both ...


Did Ink WANT to be turned?

Maybe.


Did he know this was coming?

Looks like.


Why does he need protection symbols if zombies are just a new species or stage in evolution?

Because zombies eat each other as well according to what Skittles mentioned.


Would the other zombies attack him?

Not with the tattoos on him. And even if they tried, he would mess with them big time. Just remember how incredible awesome his snatching Riley's arrow out of the air was. Super-zombie-powered-reflexes.


Did he never intend to be turned in the first- wait. IS he turned? Do we have confirmation that Ink is a real zombie? I know everything points to yes but could that be something we're missing?

He IS a zombie. Jumping from the third floor of a building and still running with a frantic speed is inhuman - just as much as a) killing Paul by smashing half of his head and b) snatching arrows out of the air which were shot at him justa few yards away with a modern sport- or hunting-bow. Inhuman. No human can do this.
And don't come with the old Chuck Norris argument: Chuck Norris is not a human. He is humanity.


Why would he spend so much time with the tattoos to protect himself against zombies only to turn into one? Isn't that some big waste of time?

Nope. If he was overwhlemed by a huge mass of zombies, especially special ones, he might have gotten killed in the end; but with the protective shit on his skin even the super powerful zombies avoid him.

Liam

[LiamKerrington]

Has anyone seen the cover photo for this one? Vic looks like a badass on it. Can I get that on a poster or something?

Why only looks like?
Vic IS badass ...

[katlero]

I would like to take this moment to say SAUL IS STILL ALIVE!!!!

Take that katlero

:squint:

Alright alright... Who has the Crow Platter? I need to dish myself a plate.

[UndeadSweeper]

Why only looks like?
Vic IS badass ...

Looks bc Vic doesn't have his long locks of hairs flowing in the winds in this pic..

[UndeadSweeper]

Alright alright... Who has the Crow Platter? I need to dish myself a plate.

Don't worry, enough to go around. But can someone check the expiration date on this batch something smell off.

[LiamKerrington]

I vote they all Pack up and leave... Go north. Further than Boulder. Find a new home. Leave Ink a note. You can have LA. We leave in Peace. Right before a nuke goes off in his face..

Wishful thinking, but:

This episode is called "Lion'S Den, and it still takes 2 episodes to go.
And then there is Saul, who is so damn pissed off, that he will do what he almost always does: running through thick walls with his head first in order to place KODI runder under the arse of whatever monster is down there.
So: nope: At least not all of them will go far North or somewhere else - at best maybe some of the smarter humans.

And don't forget: The girls are in Dunbar, and Scratch is on the run.

[Kc]

Did he know this was coming?


Looks like.


Currently, there's no evidence that he had any knowledge beforehand.

I know I've been dropping far more hints than usual, so this might be my last. The mental state of Bill Roberts prior to the attack isn't well known in the story. We know his occupation, but once he snapped, his logic and motives are suspect from then on. He may in fact have been legitimately crazy. And how would it look when someone on trial tattoos themselves all over their face? Does their mental condition become confirmed?

[LiamKerrington]

I know its far Fetched. Strap a small yield nuke to Kodi and send it into the Lion's Den. The blast would kill everything throughout the tunnel network..

Or the nuke makes it even worse ... ZOMBILLA!

[LiamKerrington]

Currently, there's no evidence that he had any knowledge beforehand.

I know I've been dropping far more hints than usual, so this might be my last. The mental state of Bill Roberts prior to the attack isn't well known in the story. We know his occupation, but once he snapped, his logic and motives are suspect from then on. He may in fact have been legitimately crazy. And how would it look when someone on trial tattoos themselves all over their face? Does their mental condition become confirmed?

Yeah, thank you. I really tried hard for a very long time to think and believe that Ink was not aware of a zombie-age starting in LA or around the world. But the last bits and piece shaked at this foundation very hard. I am glad that - this time - I was not totally wrong until the moment I started to tilt towards the unholy thoughts of Ink knowing too much ...

[Jannit]

Currently, there's no evidence that he had any knowledge beforehand.

I know I've been dropping far more hints than usual, so this might be my last. The mental state of Bill Roberts prior to the attack isn't well known in the story. We know his occupation, but once he snapped, his logic and motives are suspect from then on. He may in fact have been legitimately crazy. And how would it look when someone on trial tattoos themselves all over their face? Does their mental condition become confirmed?

Thanks for clarifying this for us, Kc. Much appreciated.

As to the question of if Ink is crazy or not, I'm really very divided on this one. Then again it does depend on what your definition of crazy is.

Bill Roberts was (is?) a smart man. We have proof of this from his position with Raydon and the work he had been doing. It's reasonable to assume he would have been a Smart One if he were bitten and turned. Why would an intelligent person do what he did? What reasonable explanation could there be for him killing his family?

Tinfoil Hat time...
Had his family been turned by someone at Raydon? Perhaps Bill Roberts found out something he shouldn't have and was going to leak the story to the press about the work Raydon had been doing which caused the apocalypse. The original zombies were described as scarred and bruised which, to me, implies they had had time to heal from whatever injuries they had sustained. Perhas they were turned and held prior to Z-Day and Bill found out about this. Maybe this is all a super secret Raydon conspiracy! They may have been experimenting with evolution and created the zombies with the gas at ground zero. Who knows. The point I'm working my way to is if Bill found out about this, tried to go public and ended up with his family turned to zombies, he may have had a reason to kill them while he was still human. THAT set of events could have precipitated his obsessive behaviour around dying and the tattoos. Plus, a seemingly "normal" man that shows up to trial with a face full of tattoos is definitely not normal and likely to be viewed as crazy. This could've been something he was counting on for a lighter sentence with the jury.

[qreepii]

Awesome episode KC. You didnt let saul die, but the Ink, Behemoth, Little One reveal was enough to make up for it.

Edit: I've always been hoping that Randy was working against Ink, like maybe he was doing the things he does in a way to usurp the other Smaht Guy in town (Ink).

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Indeed a great episode with excellent editing.

[Gnex]

Ink is Cray Cray.... that's all..... Thanks!

[Merlin1274]

"I am going to further my insanity plea.. Let me mark my face with protection glyphs. Maybe one of them will protect me from the Electric Chair." Bill Roberts the moment he realizes there is no escape.

"I am stuck in a van with monsters all around me. Maybe its best to let one bite me instead of being rip to shreds." Bill Roberts says before he sticks his arm out the window of the van while hoping one of them does gnaw his arm off..

After a few hrs he stirs. "Whats this? I have clarity, I will be King Ink of LA." MUUUHHHAAAA.. Evil Zombie Master mind laugh.. He then kicks open the van door and greets his minions.

That's how all that plays out in my head.

[Sgt606]

Hi guys. Long time lurker here. I love the story and I am a big fan of KC and the Team. I chose to finally sign up today to add a few questions to provoke thought.

Scratch has a long scratch on the side of her face, given to her by her rapist cousin. Has this scar provided protection for her all along?

Is Ink part of "The Family". If so, is Scratch working for him. That would explain the attacks shortly after Kawani showed up, and the attack at the colony shortly after shit hit the fan.

Is Sauls baby being preserved intentionally because he has the superior Saul/Tanya genes, and Scratch and Ink want to make a super Z, or possible even a cure?

Thats all for now. Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and insightful posts.

[Verse]

Is Ink a zombie? Jannit
Not really. He has clear green eyes, people that turn seem to have cloudy eyes. The one little one that was autopsied also had clear eyes.

Is Ink Human?
Not really. He kicks open the van doors and wrenches the hinges. He jumps out a 2nd or Third story window and keeps running.


My running theory is because of mental issues. His mental issues cancelling out the control of the Zombie stuff. This his eyes are clear as he is still in control.

[Grognaurd]

Thanks for clarifying this for us, Kc. Much appreciated.

As to the question of if Ink is crazy or not, I'm really very divided on this one. Then again it does depend on what your definition of crazy is.

Bill Roberts was (is?) a smart man. We have proof of this from his position with Raydon and the work he had been doing. It's reasonable to assume he would have been a Smart One if he were bitten and turned. Why would an intelligent person do what he did? What reasonable explanation could there be for him killing his family?

Tinfoil Hat time...
Had his family been turned by someone at Raydon? Perhaps Bill Roberts found out something he shouldn't have and was going to leak the story to the press about the work Raydon had been doing which caused the apocalypse. The original zombies were described as scarred and bruised which, to me, implies they had had time to heal from whatever injuries they had sustained. Perhas they were turned and held prior to Z-Day and Bill found out about this. Maybe this is all a super secret Raydon conspiracy! They may have been experimenting with evolution and created the zombies with the gas at ground zero. Who knows. The point I'm working my way to is if Bill found out about this, tried to go public and ended up with his family turned to zombies, he may have had a reason to kill them while he was still human. THAT set of events could have precipitated his obsessive behaviour around dying and the tattoos. Plus, a seemingly "normal" man that shows up to trial with a face full of tattoos is definitely not normal and likely to be viewed as crazy. This could've been something he was counting on for a lighter sentence with the jury.

Great stuff here, I have had similar thoughts. Now, I wonder if the first biters Michael saw were not actually covered in scars and bruises. He did not start the journal right away and maybe Saul calling them zombies colored his memory. But, I like the idea of a pre-existing batch of biters, but not much actual story time to cover that and who would be left to tell it?
:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:

The only way to make this work is if Burt has connection to Raydon Labs and the reason Latch and Scratch were able to get to his store before he did was that he was trying to contain the initial outbreak.

However, I think this will go the way of the dodo, just like the crows, nick & Nicholas, zombie exposure followed by sleep, etc.

[Jannit]

Great stuff here, I have had similar thoughts. Now, I wonder if the first biters Michael saw were not actually covered in scars and bruises. He did not start the journal right away and maybe Saul calling them zombies colored his memory. But, I like the idea of a pre-existing batch of biters, but not much actual story time to cover that and who would be left to tell it?
:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:

The only way to make this work is if Burt has connection to Raydon Labs and the reason Latch and Scratch were able to get to his store before he did was that he was trying to contain the initial outbreak.

However, I think this will go the way of the dodo, just like the crows, nick & Nicholas, zombie exposure followed by sleep, etc.

The simple answer? Ink! If Ink is actually human, he could fill in the blanks about how all of this started and what his motivations were all along! That'd be pretty great.

[Grognaurd]

The simple answer? Ink! If Ink is actually human, he could fill in the blanks about how all of this started and what his motivations were all along! That'd be pretty great.

Good point! Maybe Saul can invite Ink and Randy over for Pancakes.

[ImPaul]

Aw, KC it sounds like WA is getting too political. I've heard you say that WA was conceived during your time in Iraq. Is WA becoming some kind of crappy commentary on the "War on Terror"?
So S1 E1, the dude honking his horn in traffic was assaulting the pack of biters?
Angel, Saul, & Michael attacked at the military base.
Plllease.

[Jannit]

Aw, KC it sounds like WA is getting too political. I've heard you say that WA was conceived during your time in Iraq. Is WA becoming some kind of crappy commentary on the "War on Terror"?
So S1 E1, the dude honking his horn in traffic was assaulting the pack of biters?
Angel, Saul, & Michael attacked at the military base.
Plllease.

Can you explain this a bit for me, please? I really don't understand your comment about the show getting to be political and is a commentary on the War on Terror. Thanks.

[madmungo]

Hello,

So I am wondering if Randy is a good guy and actually was marking Saul with a protection symbol. To me it seems really obvious. Which is why i assume i have missed a really big flaw in that theory.
It does also explain why Michael is holding off on his explanation of Randy, because if anyone thought that he might be on-side, it would make the bite really obvious. If Saul smells different, he would know that he would not fully turn…

i don't know, i am talking myself in and out of this one…

fantastic episode KC, just incredible. Thank you so very much.

[ImPaul]

Can you explain this a bit for me, please? I really don't understand your comment about the show getting to be political and is a commentary on the War on Terror. Thanks.

KC is saying that people are the aggressors, not the zombies. As if the zombies just want to be left alone. The political mantra from the Left is that USA ( or Christians in general) are the aggressors in the WarOnTerror. We "steal" their oil, promote instability, offend thei r culture, yards yada.

So KC makes a story with HEAVY use of Biblical characters names and explains that the Zombies just want to live and love and be left alone, but evil people chase them down.

This sucks, KC. I hope I'm wrong.

[Jannit]

ImPaul Definitely a different way of looking at it and it's not something I see at all. Thanks for taking the time to explain your point of view.

[Kc]

KC is saying that people are the aggressors, not the zombies. As if the zombies just want to be left alone. The political mantra from the Left is that USA ( or Christians in general) are the aggressors in the WarOnTerror. We "steal" their oil, promote instability, offend thei r culture, yards yada.

So KC makes a story with HEAVY use of Biblical characters names and explains that the Zombies just want to live and love and be left alone, but evil people chase them down.

This sucks, KC. I hope I'm wrong.

Yeah, no, it's not a commentary at all on the "War on Terror", or has much to do with anything religious. There are some parallels to biblical names that people have drawn, but they're just a basis for what names mean and their origins.

There are some themes that I leave up to interpretation, but it's not about the war on terror. If anything it can be attributed to the enemy not just being flat an non-responsive drone, but a dynamic force that reacts to what others do. You are meant to actually think about the perspective of the antagonists and their mindset, but that's for depth, not a specific social commentary like something you're connecting.

[Witch_Doctor]

Currently, there's no evidence that he had any knowledge beforehand.

I know I've been dropping far more hints than usual, so this might be my last. The mental state of Bill Roberts prior to the attack isn't well known in the story. We know his occupation, but once he snapped, his logic and motives are suspect from then on. He may in fact have been legitimately crazy. And how would it look when someone on trial tattoos themselves all over their face? Does their mental condition become confirmed?


What happens when they turn you, and you already a monster?

[GamerGirl]

I don't think that Michael is hiding anything more from the group about Randy than usual.

The only person he told the story of "Randy & My Broken Arm" to is Datu. So Datu and the journals are the only ones who know it. I don't think there's been a lot of free time for journal transcription or review lately, so no one else has this info.

I think the whole story is being told to us is a flashback. So we have all the peices we need - but several characters do not. Will it lead to the loss of more lives? Only time will tell.

[UndeadSweeper]

I don't think that Michael is hiding anything more from the group about Randy than usual.

The only person he told the story of "Randy & My Broken Arm" to is Datu. So Datu and the journals are the only ones who know it. I don't think there's been a lot of free time for journal transcription or review lately, so no one else has this info.

I think the whole story is being told to us is a flashback. So we have all the peices we need - but several characters do not. Will it lead to the loss of more lives? Only time will tell.

If you only knew how long it took for us to find out about that story..... Darn you Pegs

[Verse]

KC is saying that people are the aggressors, not the zombies. As if the zombies just want to be left alone. The political mantra from the Left is that USA ( or Christians in general) are the aggressors in the WarOnTerror. We "steal" their oil, promote instability, offend thei r culture, yards yada.

So KC makes a story with HEAVY use of Biblical characters names and explains that the Zombies just want to live and love and be left alone, but evil people chase them down.

This sucks, KC. I hope I'm wrong.

I disagree. What I got from it is that b/c the didn't roll over and die (The Tower Folk) that Ink got creative. If it were really a "We want to be left alone" they would not have attacked the Colony nor Boulder and Irwin. Those three were unprovoked. I think Tanya is pointing out that Ink being there, and them not dieing, is making Ink step up his game to kill them. Not that he is just misunderstood and wants to be left alone.

[7oddisdead]

holy crap people! ten pages in what, seven hours?

brilliant episode. brilliant.

sounds like a few of you are finally starting to put all this together. very exciting times ahead!

[Kc]

I don't think that Michael is hiding anything more from the group about Randy than usual.

The only person he told the story of "Randy & My Broken Arm" to is Datu. So Datu and the journals are the only ones who know it. I don't think there's been a lot of free time for journal transcription or review lately, so no one else has this info.

I think the whole story is being told to us is a flashback. So we have all the peices we need - but several characters do not. Will it lead to the loss of more lives? Only time will tell.

Pegs knows some details, but it's not going to be drawn attention to. That's why she said "Is that who..." and Michael cuts her off.

[MrRedBeard]

At first thought it was because the they all have a common trend. Is it that they are minority? The only thing is Randy isn't a minority unless red hairs makes you a minority. Is that correct redbeard?

Bahaha maybe a fullfledged Ginger.... I'll ask Mick tonight.

I'll be rounding up Forum feedback for tonight's recording so be sure put out your theories and conclusions. Also if anyone wants to help list all the questions answered in this episode I can check it against my list tonight to read on the show.

[Mikeyd2tall]

I was so hoping Tanya's epic speech was gonna end with "We are the ones who keep causing him problems, the reason he hates us is because we are reminders of what he cant be anymore........We're Alive."


DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUh

[Eviebae]

So, the zombies were grabbing at Ink from both sides (windows) of the van and he couldn't move away because he was shackled. We see his arm because he's trying to fight back. He either gets scratched or bitten and turns in the van. Didn't they describe it like he was swatting at the zombies?

I don't see how they could be the blame for the zombies attacking them. If they are causing Ink to change his tactics by responding to his attacks that doesn't mean they are the cause of Ink attacking them. Attacking/aggression was in the zombie's nature from the very beginning. You need Ink to create the changes in the zomboids that occur.

The more it's an "accident" that Ink became what he has become, the more it sounds like he's an Antichrist figure. Might be too many 70's and 80's horror flicks talking, but I don't know how you'd avoid that. Either this story is intention driven, or it's chance driven.

[Gooer]

But if Ink, before he was turned, had the tattoo's for protection, why did the zombies attack him? Was it because it only works when turning/being turned into a zombie, or did they not see it or something?

[Kc]

But if Ink, before he was turned, had the tattoo's for protection, why did the zombies attack him? Was it because it only works when turning/being turned into a zombie, or did they not see it or something?

They didn't see it, but once they did, they stopped.

[Gooer]

They didn't see it, but once they did, they stopped.

It's always handy when the author clears up all these little points..... :)

[GamerGirl]

@Kc: Forgot about that line. But Yay! Michael has opened up to Pegs some. At least they have shared the things that haunt there post-apocalyptic nightmares (Randy & Latch). Bodes well for the future of the relationship.... If they both survive the next two chapters.

UndeadSweeper & MrRedBreard: Red is the most recessive gene for hair color (at least I'm pretty sure remember that from my high school science classes). So if Kc was having Ink pick on the minorities.... & he has already pulled that tin hat off & crushed it into a tiny little ball... I guess us gingers would count?

[MickGinger]

Hopping in for a FanCast Plug...I love you guys, but I can't spoil my assuredly terrible first impressions by reading all the well thought out...Wait, Gamergirl said something about Gingers...She's a ginger?! Awesome! This plug isn't going so well so far...

Anyways, Todays' episode was amazing and I can't wait to talk more about it with the RedBeardedWonder this night (9:30 CDT)

Don't forget...or if you haven't seen it yet we are talking to Shirley Jordan tomorrow night (Tanya) and we would love to know what you guys would like us to ask her. If you didn't know ( I Didn't) You have probably seen her MANY times if you have watched TV in the last 2 decades - so there's that. Post those Q's/Comments Meow*Cough*here http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?5408-We-re-Alive-FanCast-will-talk-to-Shirley-Jordan-(Tanya)!!

[Eviebae]

They didn't see it, but once they did, they stopped.

But his hands are covered with tattoos also.

[Witch_Doctor]

I'll bet the stop symbol is tattooed on him middle finger. That's where I'd put it.

[Windsor995]

That was a twist, didn't really think of the way they were changing was only localized to that area. But I remember that when they came from Hawaii, he said they were meaner there. But still makes me wonder what the End Game will be like.

[MrRedBeard]

Scratch Connection

With the limited number of human test subjects what if Scratch is one of the new breed of numbered ones?

[Matt Gossett]

Sorry if someone else already stated this, but I can never catch up with the forums. I'm assuming the mark datu received was why Jay-Zombie walked away from him.

[beans]

What a way to get the chapter going! High action and intensity! Loved the flashback sound bytes too!

I'm looking forward to the "Flappy Ones" cameo, is Tanya a zombie symapathizer? or a double-agent? (j/k), and finally loved the play on Ink being under the influence of zombie infection to "see things straight" and that his ultimate breakdown & desperate attempt for human survival seemed to be the most luckiest, cosmic, one in a 7.169 billion coincidence only now to end up working for an attempt at zombie survival....yes! Now that's how you put a twist on the story!

[7oddisdead]

so I sent this list in for the fancast guys last night, but I figure it deserves to at least be posted here. just a straightforward list of what we gleemed from this episode. some stuff is speculation, its listed in red

-tanyas levels back to normal, staying normal.even with working in the haze filled mortuary

-saul shows no signs of changing after being bitten. even quickly after his attack, datu's levels had changed. saul also was bitten while exposed to the haze, possibly doubling his exposure?

-decomposing bodies give off the gas, same as the haze at ground zero. the gas can turn you the same as the haze can

-randy marked saul the same as he marked datu, the same as ink marked him.

-sauls a baby when it comes to injuries...seriously, man up bro

-"the rainbow fan" symbol is a mark of protection.

-inks tattoos were a reaction to his abject fear of dying. his way of protecting himself.

-jail cell with "rainbow fan" symbol was the only one not broken into. adding to the theory that its the protection/stop symbol

-ink/randy choosing smart ones on purpose, singling out specific people. datu's attack was the second time he specifically was taken.

-how they grab the smart people intended for smart ones changed due to datus escape(this is speculation not just on our part, but on tanyas as well.

-the reason they went underground was to avoid attacks

-ink is simply reacting to what large groups do. if spun correctly, like Tanya/kc has done with her theory all inks actions are a direct consequence of what the human groups have done.

-little ones are a soldier class of "zombie". the behemoths were an experiment to try and knock down our defenses.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

from this list ill give ya'll a list of questions I think are important to ask.

-if the haze comes from decomposing bodies, did ink n co remove the bodies around the tower way back when to hide that information, or to protect them from further exposure (back when our group wasn't really a "threat"?)

-if ink n co are trying to recruit "smart ones"...to what end? clearly ink has the smarts to engineer his own army, why would he need more "brains" on the team?

-if theres only one real "command" symbol, what did datu read on the post-it list? did his brain interpret the rainbowfan as an address?

- why would the haze appear at an area outside the range of ground zero? the tunnels near the arena did not have the haze, the first entrance to the lions den did not, why would this tunnel have the haze? (just going off previous info, they do NOT keep their dead in their "home") so its not coming from rot.

-zombie bodies give off the gas, human bodies do not. the gas is strong enough to melt a bodybag, effects humans within seconds of exposure, yet..zom's (and saul and Tanya) can breathe it no problem. so..what could do that? and what are the zoms eating?

hopefully those questions will get some minds thinking in the right direction



todd-0

[Gooer]

from this list ill give ya'll a list of questions I think are important to ask.

-if the haze comes from decomposing bodies, did ink n co remove the bodies around the tower way back when to hide that information, or to protect them from further exposure (back when our group wasn't really a "threat"?)

-if ink n co are trying to recruit "smart ones"...to what end? clearly ink has the smarts to engineer his own army, why would he need more "brains" on the team?

-if theres only one real "command" symbol, what did datu read on the post-it list? did his brain interpret the rainbowfan as an address?

- why would the haze appear at an area outside the range of ground zero? the tunnels near the arena did not have the haze, the first entrance to the lions den did not, why would this tunnel have the haze? (just going off previous info, they do NOT keep their dead in their "home") so its not coming from rot.

hopefully those questions will get some minds thinking in the right direction



todd-0

Maybe Ink requires smart ones, as they would be easier to control? The typical zombie isn't that smart, so would not listen to instructions as easily, requiring a more reliable army? As for the bodies, maybe they wanted to collect them to increase their own resistance to the haze? As they could not resist the haze in the initial outbreak, maybe the slight exposure over time from the bodies helped?

And the symbols, maybe he found out the symbol for protection by the trial runs in the Jail, and THEN found out about the symbols for control?

[Footbutt]

With the limited number of human test subjects what if Scratch is one of the new breed of numbered ones?

while i highly doubt it, i can see it going down as such. Ink, perhaps offering Scratch the ability to be faster, immortal, powerful, etc, all in the hopes of exacting revenge on Pegs.

How many Little Ones are left? we heard (saw) two that Victor called out, and now Saul heard a newer, different-sounding one in the tunnels.
they have to act soon before they collapse the tunnel, but something tells me Scratch is going to show up at the WORST possible time.

[Jannit]

from this list ill give ya'll a list of questions I think are important to ask.

-if the haze comes from decomposing bodies, did ink n co remove the bodies around the tower way back when to hide that information, or to protect them from further exposure (back when our group wasn't really a "threat"?)

While I do like the idea that Ink and his minions were protecting our crew with the removal of bodies, it doesn't cover everything completely. Why would they have bothered to go and remove the bodies (eventually) from ground zero? No one was living there and, more accurately, everyone seemed unable to even enter the area yet we still saw that the bodies had been removed when Tanya and Vic went back for samples.


-if ink n co are trying to recruit "smart ones"...to what end? clearly ink has the smarts to engineer his own army, why would he need more "brains" on the team?
Maybe it's the kind of smart ones? If they're looking at flying zombies, maybe he needs Tanya's vet skills to start turning animals.


-if theres only one real "command" symbol, what did datu read on the post-it list? did his brain interpret the rainbowfan as an address?
Do we know this for sure? So far we've only seen "stop" and the "protection" symbols work but there could be more. If Ink's discovery of these was an accident to start with perhaps it's just a matter of uncovering more symbols that work.


- why would the haze appear at an area outside the range of ground zero? the tunnels near the arena did not have the haze, the first entrance to the lions den did not, why would this tunnel have the haze? (just going off previous info, they do NOT keep their dead in their "home") so its not coming from rot.
My bet is it's the same stuff that came from the original haze. Something must be tapping into the source in some way.


-zombie bodies give off the gas, human bodies do not. the gas is strong enough to melt a bodybag, effects humans within seconds of exposure, yet..zom's (and saul and Tanya) can breathe it no problem. so..what could do that? and what are the zoms eating?
Didn't the zombies originally avoid ground zero too? It seemed kind of like they didn't really enjoy the area all that much. I'd be curious to know if the zombies can actually be exposed without ill affect for long term. We saw a lone wolf and a little one in the haze with Tanya and Vic so I guess they must be okay with it but it still seems odd that they'd be avoiding the area for the most part. As to your actual question, I'm not sure. That needs more thought!


hopefully those questions will get some minds thinking in the right direction

todd-0

Thanks for the list, Todd. Very good points to ponder!

[Grognaurd]

There was also an "Enter" rune on the church that Datu saw. They did not take a picture and it may no longer be there.

There are a lot of great points here. I will do my best to think outside the box, so we can avoid a group-think lock up. Even if five people agree on the evidence, someone should always serve as The Devils Advocate...

I am not sure if the biters took Datu and the others so they could be turned. They could have been taken as hostages. That way ink and crew could kill off the rescue parties. Attacking from a defensive position is better than assaulting someone else's.

When Kalani first gets there, he meets the guy with the drugs. I am ashamed that I do not recall at the moment. In my mind, the drugs link him back to Tardust more than CJ's Tower.

Maybe Randy did mark Datu and Saul so he other biters would leave them alone. However, if Randy cannot talk, maybe he marked them to says "Stop That!" it's our water, or stay out of my house!

We are still left with the gas having different effects on different people. Some cough, some change, some seem immune, maybe some of the first people at ground zero just died. However, the first news reports were rioters attacking people. Not a lot of people coughing.

I am still left with the concept that the gas is a defensive counter measure creating an area of denial. Humans were Fracking in Ingelwood. The gas caused them to stop ( among other things) Gunfire at ground zero and the gas comes back. People invade the tunnels and the gas comes back.

[Gnex]

If they are just trying to mark Datu and Saul to basically say "Stay Away" or "Leave us Alone" or whatever..... Then I don't understand why they would need to bite them as well???

Seems to me that Randy bites them, and then scratches something on them......

So why not just scratch them and leave them alone??? why the bite as well???

Also, what makes Randy so special that his bite doesn't immediately turn someone???


Datu hung on for a while and then eventually turned anyways!!! Is that Saul's fate??? Or is there something that makes Saul and Tanya different.....

[Gnex]

With the limited number of human test subjects what if Scratch is one of the new breed of numbered ones?

Scratch is the new Alpha Zombie!!!

[Bullethead]

Has anyone been able to amplify the track and figure out what or when Michael "Heard Something" ? I mean booking it say 40-60mph in a noisy old pick up...thats some good ears Mike. Thats some Lethal Weapon 4, Riggs and Murtah shit.

3162
Or Lethal Weapon 6 if you prefer.
3163

[Footbutt]

i wonder if Saul will get his Keritan levels check.... too much going on, though, and he may be seeing 'the end' before it gets here.

[Gooer]

If they are just trying to mark Datu and Saul to basically say "Stay Away" or "Leave us Alone" or whatever..... Then I don't understand why they would need to bite them as well???

Seems to me that Randy bites them, and then scratches something on them......

So why not just scratch them and leave them alone??? why the bite as well???

Also, what makes Randy so special that his bite doesn't immediately turn someone???


Datu hung on for a while and then eventually turned anyways!!! Is that Saul's fate??? Or is there something that makes Saul and Tanya different.....

I'm guessing he bites AND scratches them to make sure that they do turn; leave no chances.

[Gooer]

i wonder if Saul will get his Keritan levels check.... too much going on, though, and he may be seeing 'the end' before it gets here.

That's what Michael and Victor tested on Saul when they got to the safe house.

[Gooer]

Has anyone been able to amplify the track and figure out what or when Michael "Heard Something" ? I mean booking it say 40-60mph in a noisy old pick up...thats some good ears Mike. Thats some Lethal Weapon 4, Riggs and Murtah shit.

3162
Or Lethal Weapon 6 if you prefer.
3163

It was a shout/groan from Saul, which is why he drove back.

[Kc]

Good stuff overall. I think your red list is even pretty close.


so I sent this list in for the fancast guys last night, but I figure it deserves to at least be posted here. just a straightforward list of what we gleemed from this episode. some stuff is speculation, its listed in red

-tanyas levels back to normal, staying normal.even with working in the haze filled mortuary

-saul shows no signs of changing after being bitten. even quickly after his attack, datu's levels had changed. saul also was bitten while exposed to the haze, possibly doubling his exposure?

-decomposing bodies give off the gas, same as the haze at ground zero. the gas can turn you the same as the haze can

-randy marked saul the same as he marked datu, the same as ink marked him.

-sauls a baby when it comes to injuries...seriously, man up bro

-"the rainbow fan" symbol is a mark of protection.

-inks tattoos were a reaction to his abject fear of dying. his way of protecting himself.

-jail cell with "rainbow fan" symbol was the only one not broken into. adding to the theory that its the protection/stop symbol

-ink/randy choosing smart ones on purpose, singling out specific people. datu's attack was the second time he specifically was taken.

-how they grab the smart people intended for smart ones changed due to datus escape(this is speculation not just on our part, but on tanyas as well.

-the reason they went underground was to avoid attacks

-ink is simply reacting to what large groups do. if spun correctly, like Tanya/kc has done with her theory all inks actions are a direct consequence of what the human groups have done.

-little ones are a soldier class of "zombie". the behemoths were an experiment to try and knock down our defenses.



Ok, now down to these guys. Since we're getting closer to the end, I'm willing to give up some more hints.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------

from this list ill give ya'll a list of questions I think are important to ask.

-if the haze comes from decomposing bodies, did ink n co remove the bodies around the tower way back when to hide that information, or to protect them from further exposure (back when our group wasn't really a "threat"?)

At that time Ink didn't know that the bodies decomposed in a way that created the gas.



-if ink n co are trying to recruit "smart ones"...to what end? clearly ink has the smarts to engineer his own army, why would he need more "brains" on the team?

The less he gets his hands dirty. Or shot.



-if theres only one real "command" symbol, what did datu read on the post-it list? did his brain interpret the rainbowfan as an address?

Alright, you're getting a big one here.

He didn't interpret the rainbowfan as an address. Certain symbols can evoke certain responses in just about every type of turned out there... however, there are certain ways to communicate that only a few can interpret. Ink could not have given that paper to just any biter. This sort of also answers why he would need more "brains" on the team.



- why would the haze appear at an area outside the range of ground zero? the tunnels near the arena did not have the haze, the first entrance to the lions den did not, why would this tunnel have the haze? (just going off previous info, they do NOT keep their dead in their "home") so its not coming from rot.

The gas dissipates over distance. The first entrance could be further underground than aboveground.



-zombie bodies give off the gas, human bodies do not. the gas is strong enough to melt a bodybag, effects humans within seconds of exposure, yet..zom's (and saul and Tanya) can breathe it no problem. so..what could do that? and what are the zoms eating?

hopefully those questions will get some minds thinking in the right direction

todd-0

It's not exactly what they're eating, it's more of what they are, or have become. Gas at ground zero, at first, they avoided. I'm going to give you a few options for answers, and let you all go from there. This is one of those areas that might be intentionally interpretable.

Given enough time, the gas either dissipated there, or they grew more of a tolerance to it.
The other option is that the gas is slightly different there at ground zero, than that which comes from their own corpses.

As for Saul and Tanya, they aren't affected by either. (Or is it effected? Those two words are like impossible for me to get strait). It's safe to say that whatever makes them immune has something to do with that.

Ok, there you go. /infodump.

[7oddisdead]

Dammit. I wanted others to say that! :nik:

well, there you go folks...take all that and run with it

[Jannit]

This must be so frustrating for you Kc and 7oddisdead. I get the feeling that we're hovering on the edge of figuring this all out but keep swinging away from the right answers! I've got this mental picture of the two of you facepalming every time we get close then go off course on some weird tangent.

[Kc]

Dammit. I wanted others to say that! :nik:

well, there you go folks...take all that and run with it


This must be so frustrating for you @Kc (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/member.php?u=1) and @7oddisdead (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/member.php?u=1264). I get the feeling that we're hovering on the edge of figuring this all out but keep swinging away from the right answers! I've got this mental picture of the two of you facepalming every time we get close then go off course on some weird tangent.

There's still enough theory work out there still... Didn't know you didn't want me to answer those... :/?

[Jannit]

There's still enough theory work out there still... Didn't know you didn't want me to answer those... :/?

For what it's worth WE wanted you to answer those! O_o

[Kc]

Maybe this will make up for it...

3164

EDIT: These are actually stickers we made... coming to the finale store near you...

[7oddisdead]

@kc

all good sir. Its one of those things....many of the things you said I've already reached those conclusions...but, its when you jump off from those ideas that the real ideas start to flow. I was simply trying to "lead a horse to water" to use a very loose analogy.

Jannit

contrary to what some may believe, I only have a very strong theory of what the "outbreak" is, and a few other details, beyond that, I'm still piecing the details together, same as everyone else. I just enjoy watching others brains work enough that with where we are....i don't want to just come out and say things.

apologies for any confusion

[Kc]

@kc

all good sir. Its one of those things....many of the things you said I've already reached those conclusions...but, its when you jump off from those ideas that the real ideas start to flow. I was simply trying to "lead a horse to water" to use a very loose analogy.


Good call. Perhaps I'll wait until the post-finale show to clear up some of these things.

[Gnex]

Maybe this will make up for it...

3164

EDIT: These are actually stickers we made... coming to the finale store near you...


Truck/Car Decals!!! Make it happen KC!!! :britt:

[Kc]

Truck/Car Decals!!! Make it happen KC!!! :britt:

These are smaller than that, but we'll look into those too.

[Gnex]

These are smaller than that, but we'll look into those too.

I like the idea of the Symbol, a bit bigger of course since it will be on a vehicle..... and then something under it like zombiepodcast.com or We're Alive or something!!!

rolling advertising!!! :yay:

[MickGinger]

so I sent this list in for the fancast guys last night, but I figure it deserves to at least be posted here. just a straightforward list of what we gleemed from this episode. some stuff is speculation, its listed in red

Thank you so much for this 7odd!! It really helped us last night.

[Gnex]

I don't like Tanya saying that the only thing standing in Ink's way is the survivors.......

"If all he wants to do is live, we are the only ones standing in his way"......

He is also attacking and killing people..... If Ink wants to be alone he can just head up into the mountain and get a nice like chateau with his brood and hang out snowboarding for the rest of his life!!!

[MickGinger]

These are smaller than that, but we'll look into those too.

Smaller then car stickers? Looks like Temporary Tatoos!! (And probably permanent ones for some...)

[7oddisdead]

Smaller then car stickers? Looks like Temporary Tatoos!! (And probably permanent ones for some...)

not a bad idea. (or a bad idea, depending on perspective)

[Kc]

Smaller then car stickers? Looks like Temporary Tatoos!! (And probably permanent ones for some...)


not a bad idea. (or a bad idea, depending on perspective)


I like the idea of the Symbol, a bit bigger of course since it will be on a vehicle..... and then something under it like zombiepodcast.com or We're Alive or something!!!

rolling advertising!!! :yay:

Just put an order in for the large ones for cars. Temporary tattoos have been ordered... lots of new products coming online for the finale.

[UndeadSweeper]

Here a tinfoil theory:

Scratch has been captured by Ink to produce the next generation of Little Ones. We haven't seen her for awhile and Ink do need female host. It would be a bit twist since we know a bit about Scratch back-story and may cause a mental pause for the listeners if ask to be kill so that the monster isn't born.

[Grognaurd]

Scratch was with Tardust, what, about 24 to 36 hours ago?




The more it's an "accident" that Ink became what he has become, the more it sounds like he's an Antichrist figure. Might be too many 70's and 80's horror flicks talking, but I don't know how you'd avoid that. Either this story is intention driven, or it's chance driven.


Along the lines of the book of Revalation, the anti-christ brings Satan to the Earth in the form of a dragon. Not that I think this is standard telling of revelation, but I do find it interesting that, as far as Ink knows, the flying helicopter caused the death of one little one and took one away never to be seen again. Then the chopper comes back and kills some more. So, to deal with the chopper, he needs one or more of the ffollowing...

A Flyer
Super Jumpers
Some sort of ranged weapon
Super Duper armor, like the treeomuth.

Or, we could get weird and instead of going with the Dragon, go wih the beast. It's seven heads give it great redundancing, because headshots have been very deadly.

It is interesting to note that the beast had the body of a lion... And what is the name of this chapter. Oh, snap!

[GamerGirl]

Ummm guys... Wasn't Scratch messed up by the rape - or the attack after she took her revenge for the rape or the pregnancy itself (sorry it's been a while) - to the point where she can't have kids. I thought that was her big humanizing reveal to Lizzy before she went all crazy on Angel & Bert? Isn't that why she was so protective of Lizzy's pregnancy?

I really don't think that Scratch is giving birth to anything.

I'm all for a good tin hat - but even with out it being less than a week since Tardust left her - there needs to be a little more fact to hold it up.

(But if I get fact checked & I am totally wrong...... than is there any of that crow left?)

Edit: Or a botched abortion (see bellow - thanks DangyTag)

[DagnyTag]

Here a tinfoil theory:

Scratch has been captured by Ink to produce the next generation of Little Ones. We haven't seen her for awhile and Ink do need female host. It would be a bit twist since we know a bit about Scratch back-story and may cause a mental pause for the listeners if ask to be kill so that the monster isn't born.

I'm pretty sure Scratch can no longer bear human or zombie children because of the botched abortion..

[Jannit]

All this talk about children brings something to mind - why don't we see many female zombies? I can't recall any off hand.

[katlero]

Ummm guys... Wasn't Scratch messed up by the rape - or the attack after she took her revenge for the rape or the pregnancy itself (sorry it's been a while) - to the point where she can't have kids. I thought that was her big humanizing reveal to Lizzy before she went all crazy on Angel & Bert? Isn't that why she was so protective of Lizzy's pregnancy?

I really don't think that Scratch is giving birth to anything.

I'm all for a good tin hat - but even with out it being less than a week since Tardust left her - there needs to be a little more fact to hold it up.

(But if I get fact checked & I am totally wrong...... than is there any of that crow left?)

Edit: Or a botched abortion (see bellow - thanks DangyTag)

*passes plate* heads up GamerGirl! Might I suggest a little cranberry sauce to go with it? Really brings out the flavor in the crow.

[Eviebae]

All this talk about children brings something to mind - why don't we see many female zombies? I can't recall any off hand.

The one that clung to the helicopter when it returned to the base was female and there was Zom-Mom. Some of the ones in the beginning were female--the ones that attacked the car. I wish more of them were described because--especially as KC describes them--it adds a poignancy to their zombie-ness.

[Burgerbros]

We're Alive is the good thing about Mondays. Why does it have to end.

[GamerGirl]

*passes plate* heads up GamerGirl! Might I suggest a little cranberry sauce to go with it? Really brings out the flavor in the crow.

I will take a 1/2 portion please. And the cranberry sauce as well.

The exact cause of her inability to have children was the botched abortion (as reflected in my edit- again thanks to DT) but the fact that it it could be tied to the original attack & the timing has yet to be disputed.

If those are disputed, than I can always ask for seconds.

[Eviebae]

I will take a 1/2 portion please. And the cranberry sauce as well.


Well remembered, even still.

[Cardiac Thug]

Hello friends! Just a quick question... Am I way off base or has anyone suggested that Ink is actually trying to save us as a population or is at least trying to keep all of us who are already changing from years of exposure to this gas from just ending up as normal ones. If he wants to live, he might also want all of us to live. Also, why does the protection symbol look like MJ under a rainbow? Maybe KC knew in advance Colorado would be the first to legalize the stuff which is why everyone moved to Boulder and Camp Irwin.

[Cardiac Thug]

Could someone please repost a picture of inks tattoos if possible?

[Gnex]

Could someone please repost a picture of inks tattoos if possible?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=The+Symbols :)

[Verse]

All this talk about children brings something to mind - why don't we see many female zombies? I can't recall any off hand.


The one that clung to the helicopter when it returned to the base was female and there was Zom-Mom. Some of the ones in the beginning were female--the ones that attacked the car. I wish more of them were described because--especially as KC describes them--it adds a poignancy to their zombie-ness.

I brought this up as well a few weeks back. After the first wave of Zombies during Z-Day (The first couple chapters), the only females have seen have been a Little One, and two Colonist that were changed and put down right after being bit. Outside of the Little One, none have been described as female in 'The Wild'. This excludes Irwin and Baulder as everyone was turned. So after everything 'Settled Down' from the first outbreak all the females were gone from the wild it seems.

I am talking about in LA. KC hasn't described any Lone Wolves or Zeds they met as female. That could be just lack for description though. Still think it is worth keeping in the back of our minds.

[Gnex]

interesting though....... Looking back at the pictures we have seen of Ink, I don't see the symbol in question anywhere....


I was thinking it would be on his face since that seems to be where Randy is scratching everyone.....


So where exactly is Ink's Tat?!?? :squint:

[Verse]

Also, my theory on the thing in the pit.....

Second generation Little One. We know that ppl turned take on the traits of the Little Ones. KC said a long time ago that you take on the traits of what turned you. This was proven when all the ones turned by Little Ones changed into Zombies that Saul thought was a little one.

What if Ink got a preggers woman and changed her via a Little One, or got a Zombie changed by a little one Preggers. The first Little Ones were normal Zombie babies that were given the treatments while in womb and came out as Little Ones. What if you have a Zombie Mommy that has been changed via a little one, have her preggers, then given the treatments again. You have a Little One 2.0 that has been Double Dipped in Dr. Ink's Super Zombie Juice.

[Storm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain

[Gnex]

All this talk about children brings something to mind - why don't we see many female zombies? I can't recall any off hand.

I always just took it as the fact that there were just as many male zombies as female zombie running around.......


Just that the zombies that we actually get descriptions of seem to be mostly male.....

[Eviebae]

How do the tattoos of molecular diagrams mean protection?

[UndeadSweeper]

I always just took it as the fact that there were just as many male zombies as female zombie running around.......


Just that the zombies that we actually get descriptions of seem to be mostly male.....

Yea, I just noticed that too. Mostly the descriptions and sounds we gotten have been males. The last time we could id one was Angel's gf and in Boulder I believe.

[Osiris]

:hsugh:

[Grognaurd]

Yea, I just noticed that too. Mostly the descriptions and sounds we gotten have been males. The last time we could id one was Angel's gf and in Boulder I believe.

Before Michael and Lizzy go look for Saul and Angel ( and Burt is now with them )

"Shoot that bitch in the face!"

[Osiris]

http://i.imgur.com/HU784BL.jpg

[Gnex]

:hsugh:

[Gnex]

How do the tattoos of molecular diagrams mean protection?

I don't think every single tattoo means protection..... I think the majority of the symbols mean protection.....
but the diagrams and stuff could have been for other reasons.......

[Grognaurd]

The image Kc provide is very interesting. When we as a group looked at Ink's Tattoos, we made the connection to protection. Some of us went further off he deep end and wondered if there was a Jungian aspect to it. That some images go deep into he sub-conscious to the primal brain (1).

But, the one that seemed to work is not anything we recognized. This begs the question is there an external intelligence at work? Is it just a gas? Is there a parasite with its own intelligence?

(1) on an aside, I think a dragon is an amalgum of creatures we feared millions of years ago. It has the mouth of a crocadile which would ambush when we got water. A neck and tail like a snake which could surprise in the trees and in the long grass. Some were poison us and others were constrictors. It had wings like the eagles that could surprise us from the air and a big powerful body and forelimbs similar to a large cat that That could swat us and rake with claws.

[Kc]

I always just took it as the fact that there were just as many male zombies as female zombie running around.......


Just that the zombies that we actually get descriptions of seem to be mostly male.....

Oh, they're definitely out there, but there are fewer for two reasons. One, we don't use the female zombie noises as much as the males because the males SFX sound more menacing and threatening. That's not to say that the females aren't equally a threat. In reality, that female little one that hitched a ride to boulder was responsible for killing more than any other male...

And two, it's the same reason we don't have many children zombies. The initial attack/turning would have fewer children and females survive. That's not meant to be sexist, but rather more of a realistic perspective that larger males would have more of a chance to survive the initial attack to turn.

[Jannit]

That's fair. Thanks for the clarification, Kc.

[FenixArc]

I don't like Tanya saying that the only thing standing in Ink's way is the survivors.......

"If all he wants to do is live, we are the only ones standing in his way"......

He is also attacking and killing people..... If Ink wants to be alone he can just head up into the mountain and get a nice like chateau with his brood and hang out snowboarding for the rest of his life!!!

I think the biggest thing standing in the way of this is the fact that the zombies eat humans. It's not really a live and let live situation. Wasn't there a quote at the beginning of Xmen - Days of Future Past, something like "when homo sapiens arrived, homo errectus were wiped out in short order". Well, that's what we have here with the arrival of the zeds. They are the "new evolution" of humanity, and the old models have to go.

So far as we have seen, humans seem to be the primary food source for all zeds, even if they are willing to eat other things including each other. We also have no evidence so far that the zombies have any way of replenishing their food sources. Some people have speculated that they let humans survive as "farms", but realistically they have killed off far too many people - at least in the LA area, that we know of - for that to work.

It's an issue of escalation. Another way to look at it is law enforcement versus criminal elements (although in this case, one side is more clearly the good guys). Cops carry sidearms, criminals start using rifles. Cops start carrying rifles, criminals start using ballistic armor.

I agree with what you or someone said earlier in this thread - it has gotten so bad in LA because the survivors refused to roll over and die, not because they necessarily "caused" anything to happen. In my mind, neither side is at "fault" here. They are both just doing what they have to do to survive, which happens to include the extinction of the other side.

[Gnex]

Oh, they're definitely out there, but there are fewer for two reasons. One, we don't use the female zombie noises as much as the males because the males SFX sound more menacing and threatening. That's not to say that the females aren't equally a threat. In reality, that female little one that hitched a ride to boulder was responsible for killing more than any other male...

And two, it's the same reason we don't have many children zombies. The initial attack/turning would have fewer children and females survive. That's not meant to be sexist, but rather more of a realistic perspective that larger males would have more of a chance to survive the initial attack to turn.

Also if you were a larger male, you would in turn be a larger zombie....... The zombie's seem to behave with a pack/hive mentality...... and generally in those cases it is the biggest specimen that leads a pack or hive........


*** edit -- females can also be aggressive and lead packs and all that good stuff too!!!! Don't throw your high heels at me!!! :D ***

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I had some time to think about the latest episode. Yes, it is going to be a straight 50/50 coin flip end in my opinion. Even if Ink has got his next little annihilation toy ready, he seems to act more and more defensively. Moreover, it appears that he has changed his strategy by creating a single yet very powerful new creature instead of relying on a bunch of more but less powerful little ones. As both sides are inevitably run out low on available resources, there might be a real chance to defeat Ink.

- He is attached to a certain place
- I guess sweat bottles never stop to confuse the zombie senses up to a point where they will even start attacking Ink
- Saul is like Wolverine, always right in the middle of the action, always wounded, never killed
- Skittles will be back
- Victor still has to get his beserker mode scene


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4bPjVXvK-A

The only remaining unknown variable is Scratch.

[Z Sniper]

I think the biggest thing standing in the way of this is the fact that the zombies eat humans. It's not really a live and let live situation. Wasn't there a quote at the beginning of Xmen - Days of Future Past, something like "when homo sapiens arrived, homo errectus were wiped out in short order". Well, that's what we have here with the arrival of the zeds. They are the "new evolution" of humanity, and the old models have to go.

So far as we have seen, humans seem to be the primary food source for all zeds, even if they are willing to eat other things including each other. We also have no evidence so far that the zombies have any way of replenishing their food sources. Some people have speculated that they let humans survive as "farms", but realistically they have killed off far too many people - at least in the LA area, that we know of - for that to work.

It's an issue of escalation. Another way to look at it is law enforcement versus criminal elements (although in this case, one side is more clearly the good guys). Cops carry sidearms, criminals start using rifles. Cops start carrying rifles, criminals start using ballistic armor.

I agree with what you or someone said earlier in this thread - it has gotten so bad in LA because the survivors refused to roll over and die, not because they necessarily "caused" anything to happen. In my mind, neither side is at "fault" here. They are both just doing what they have to do to survive, which happens to include the extinction of the other side.

I believe what makes these "zombies" super dangerous is the fact that the story really is about survival and their innate ability to evolve with every situation. Nature is living proof of that, except these new creatures are doing it at an alarming pace. They have adapted to just about every situation in order to ensure their survival while eliminating the one obstacle that could keep them from doing so,...HUMANS. Point well made about law enforcement and criminals, but you need to look no further than our very own military and the evolution of the "gun".

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I believe what makes these "zombies" super dangerous is the fact that the story really is about survival and their innate ability to evolve with every situation. Nature is living proof of that, except these new creatures are doing it at an alarming pace. They have adapted to just about every situation in order to ensure their survival while eliminating the one obstacle that could keep them from doing so,...HUMANS. Point well made about law enforcement and criminals, but you need to look no further than our very own military and the evolution of the "gun".

Quite right.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/rocket_packs.png

[madmungo]

…..
So far as we have seen, humans seem to be the primary food source for all zeds, even if they are willing to eat other things including each other. ….

What i don't get is where people keep mentioning the Zeds eating each other. I do not remember any of that.

The big pile of bodies in the arena were not zombies, but killed humans. The flesh was rotting, but only as a regular body decomposes….

maybe i am missing something

[Gnex]

I believe what makes these "zombies" super dangerous is the fact that the story really is about survival and their innate ability to evolve with every situation. Nature is living proof of that, except these new creatures are doing it at an alarming pace. They have adapted to just about every situation in order to ensure their survival while eliminating the one obstacle that could keep them from doing so,...HUMANS. Point well made about law enforcement and criminals, but you need to look no further than our very own military and the evolution of the "gun".

And you thought all Victor was good for was yelling "Ay Dios Mio!!" and throwing cheap cologne at zombie........ He's got some Smerts too!!! :nik:

[Gnex]

What i don't get is where people keep mentioning the Zeds eating each other. I do not remember any of that.

The big pile of bodies in the arena were not zombies, but killed humans. The flesh was rotting, but only as a regular body decomposes….

maybe i am missing something

Maybe drawing conclussions from when the little one (#7????) attacked another zombie before it attack Victor/Tanya??? I can't think of a time when they rolled up on a zombie eating another one tho.......

[Eviebae]

I wonder if the haze-filled Morgue is going to serve a purpose story-wise? I mean, it's pretty much a death trap.

[Verse]

What i don't get is where people keep mentioning the Zeds eating each other. I do not remember any of that.

The big pile of bodies in the arena were not zombies, but killed humans. The flesh was rotting, but only as a regular body decomposes….

maybe i am missing something

Skittles told Angel that he had seen it happen. That they "Will eat anything. Even each other if they are hungry enough"

[Gnex]

Skittles told Angel that he had seen it happen. That they "Will eat anything. Even each other if they are hungry enough"

Was that all the zombies or just the Behemoths??? I remember him saying something like that now when they were in the water tower..... Good catch though!!!! :nik:

[Verse]

Was that all the zombies or just the Behemoths??? I remember him saying something like that now when they were in the water tower..... Good catch though!!!! :nik:

I am pretty sure he meant everyone. If I remember it was inside the conversation about the Behemoths. That they could smell the Rations inside and that is why they burst in. Angel said something like "Yeah. We found the crewing cans open" (The regulars on the supply run where they found Burt) then Skittle replied about them eating anything including each other.

[madmungo]

Skittles told Angel that he had seen it happen. That they "Will eat anything. Even each other if they are hungry enough"

Ahh ok, thank you for clearing that up :-D

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I believe what makes these "zombies" super dangerous is the fact that the story really is about survival and their innate ability to evolve with every situation. Nature is living proof of that, except these new creatures are doing it at an alarming pace. They have adapted to just about every situation in order to ensure their survival while eliminating the one obstacle that could keep them from doing so,...HUMANS. Point well made about law enforcement and criminals, but you need to look no further than our very own military and the evolution of the "gun".

Yeah, HUMANS, the only ones who excel at picking up the pace when it comes to fucking up things.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/4_5_degrees.png

[Gnex]

oh wow!!! I'm a "Builder" now!! YAY!!!! :o

[Jannit]

oh wow!!! I'm a "Builder" now!! YAY!!!! :o

Congrats! How do those titles even work? I've never quite understood all of that and haven't bothered to look into it.

[Kc]

Congrats! How do those titles even work? I've never quite understood all of that and haven't bothered to look into it.

It's based on post-count. That's all.

[Gnex]

Congrats! How do those titles even work? I've never quite understood all of that and haven't bothered to look into it.

I think it has to do with your posts count Jannit, but don't quote me on that....... Maybe every 100 posts it changes?!?!?

I don't know I never notice it until it changes..... LOL


*** edit -- Or what KC said above!!! *** :D

[Witch_Doctor]

How do the tattoos of molecular diagrams mean protection?

Yeah! Take THAT Tanya!

[Witch_Doctor]

OK, any guesses as to what Saul heard underground?

Sounds like a little one, but bigger, deeper and raspier.
Maybe burrows under ground like a giant worm.
Missing zombies.
Mad Scientist at play.
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/240/b/8/the_zombie_centipede_by_xxx24-d6k1gh7.jpg

[7oddisdead]

That's just wrong!

;)

[Grognaurd]

I think it has to do with your posts count Jannit, but don't quote me on that....... Maybe every 100 posts it changes?!?!?

I don't know I never notice it until it changes..... LOL

*** edit -- Or what KC said above!!! *** :D

The changest are a sliding scale. The next level takes more. 1,500 for the LX Destroyer I have

[Grognaurd]

That's just wrong!

;)

If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes (hint: think sled dogs)

[FenixArc]

I believe what makes these "zombies" super dangerous is the fact that the story really is about survival and their innate ability to evolve with every situation. Nature is living proof of that, except these new creatures are doing it at an alarming pace. They have adapted to just about every situation in order to ensure their survival while eliminating the one obstacle that could keep them from doing so,...HUMANS. Point well made about law enforcement and criminals, but you need to look no further than our very own military and the evolution of the "gun".

Not sure I 100% followed what you were getting at with guns and the military. Are you talking about escalation between military and civilian arms? Or between our military and other countries'?

[Witch_Doctor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain

Well damn. That's pretty cool.
Ancient.
Means protection.
Assumed that all humans would react to it.
I don't care if it's supernatural, I like it. Cool idea.

[Witch_Doctor]

Gonna disagree with Tanya. They are not responsible for L.A. being a zombie-land Mutual Assured Destruction hell hole. The reason things are worse in L.A. compared to the rest of the world is that Ink is in L.A. He is the variable that other locations are missing. Bolder and Fort Irwin did a much better job of protecting themselves without the Ink menace. Only when their locales where contaminated with Inklings, did they experience L.A.'s tribulations.

Ink is not some sort of Godzilla-like balancing force of nature. He is a self determining agent, like humans. It's the difference between natural and artificial selection. Natural selection is one of the driving mechanisms behind evolution. It is blind, reactionary, and it lacks any teleological qualities. It's like water that fills the shape what ever container it occupies. Nature isn't good or evil. It just is. We can marvel at what pleases or terrifies us about nature, but it isn't trying to be our friend or our enemy.

What Ink is doing is artificial selection. More accurately, Ink is manipulating nature. To do this requires choice, decisions, intentions. Therefore, we can judge Ink on moral grounds. He might feel that he needs to protect himself, but so the the human survivors.

[Kc]

How do the tattoos of molecular diagrams mean protection?

Those weren't on the doors, or anything they saw. That was something you saw, not the characters.

[Litmaster]

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/WA_S4_June15-C.jpg


Isn't his M-16 missing a magazine?

[Litmaster]

So KC makes a story with HEAVY use of Biblical characters names

Um, Saul.... Angel.... Hope.... ? I don't recall a St. Bixby in the Bible. Wait- could Gatekeeper be a reference to St. Peter at the pearly gates??!?

Sorry dude, but I think you are

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.8844975.2236/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg
LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT JUST ISN'T THERE

[Osiris]

OK, any guesses as to what Saul heard underground?

Sounds like a little one, but bigger, deeper and raspier.
Maybe burrows under ground like a giant worm.
Missing zombies.
Mad Scientist at play.
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/240/b/8/the_zombie_centipede_by_xxx24-d6k1gh7.jpg

Interesting how this post wasn't reported as being offensive...

[Verse]

Isn't his M-16 missing a magazine?

Nope. Because Victor fires pure awesome.

[Verse]

That was a twist, didn't really think of the way they were changing was only localized to that area. But I remember that when they came from Hawaii, he said they were meaner there. But still makes me wonder what the End Game will be like.

Saw this and wanted to bring it up to see what people thought.

My guess is based on the consideration of the gas. Ground Zero was avoided to begin with. KC gave us a few hints to 'choose' from. One was that Ground Zero Gas has dissipated some. I am going with that one. The Little One there attacked a regular one there for some unknown reason. We know many of the 'special' ones came from there. CJ said as much. Said the closer you get to Ground Zero the more unique ones you saw. That makes me think that gas changed you more than just into a Zed. Pushed the 'Evolution' further. Much like how the Zeds already have a better circulatory system. My other guess is that the gas makes you meaner and harder to control. Could explain why Hawaii was meaner (More Gas Maybe?) and why it was avoided and came back later.

Even if it doesn't make your "meaner', Ink is using the gas for something. My guess is to help with the New Little One breeding.

[FenixArc]

Isn't his M-16 missing a magazine?

Hard to tell on mobile, but looks like he might be pulling another mag out with his other hand. Could just be in the middle of reloading.

[FenixArc]

And for those people saying Saul made it, keep in mind they still have a bomb to deliver down a tunnel. Who's the best candidate to sneak into the enemy base on a suicide mission? Someone with a fresh bite and a protection symbol scratched into his face? Michael didn't sound too confident that kodi could get by the zombies.

[Z Sniper]

Not sure I 100% followed what you were getting at with guns and the military. Are you talking about escalation between military and civilian arms? Or between our military and other countries'?

Our military and other countries or any country for that matter who has encountered the wrath of technological advances from their enemies. In short, one must advance and adapt to their enemies advances or expect a bad outcome. I'm not saying Ink just wants to be left alone,...I'm saying, he wants to LIVE AND CONQUER.

[Gooer]

Isn't his M-16 missing a magazine?

Victor doesn't need ammo. His charm is enough.....

[madmungo]

Isn't his M-16 missing a magazine?

haha well spotted!! yes i am sure that is the reason they are driving flat out to GTF outta there :-D

[Hellbringer]

Victor doesn't need ammo. His charm is enough.....

His charm.... or his cologne?

[Grognaurd]

So, I was thinking of alternate means of the title. Sometimes a "man cave" is called a den. When I was young, we did not have the man cave term and used Den. I got to thinking that Durai's place sounded like a den, so I googled Durai and Lion and came across a vide game reference. The final fantasy franchise.

Some dude named Durai writes a history of the Lion War.

Interesting, but think it was just a random coincidence

[BunnyButters]

They are taking all the bodies, for the same reason they have moved underground I presume, to protect themselves (under the command of Ink) from the humans (our group).
As was explained, the group have made them worse, needing to up their game to survive the threat of extinction, just as humans are doing. It's hard to get to them underground and also the haze creates an effective barrier!

[Gnex]

Isn't his M-16 missing a magazine?

That's what she said.

[UndeadSweeper]

Isn't his M-16 missing a magazine?

You ever wondering who is Bishop's father from the X-men? It's Vic, the man can power a M-16 with his love. It's lethal to those who can't handle it.


Honestly, it look like he get putting one out of his side pocket/pouch.

[Duffusmonkey]

Grats Gnex your title proves KC can count! ;)

I am afraid to post too much because Zombie Humper is a pretty cool title

[wminscoe7]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Angel and Scratch part of the same family of some sort?

[Duffusmonkey]

What is the new Monster!

Deeper voice leads me to believe they are super sized little ones

[Grognaurd]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Angel and Scratch part of the same family of some sort?

I do not think we have a for sure answer for that. Scratch describes three families, aware of eachother, but probably have their own agenda. Her ring has three interconnecting rings. Later Durai says that Angel's father was a good friend. He did not use a traditional family term like brother or cousin, so my guess is they are separate.

[Gooer]

Grats Gnex your title proves KC can count! ;)

I am afraid to post too much because Zombie Humper is a pretty cool title

Your personal set title doesn't change with your posting haha. Only the default ones, like Builder, Hoarder, Lurker etc change.

[Gooer]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Angel and Scratch part of the same family of some sort?

They were both related to the group known as "The Family", but they are related to different groups(or families) within the Family....

[Witch_Doctor]

Saw this and wanted to bring it up to see what people thought.

My guess is based on the consideration of the gas. Ground Zero was avoided to begin with. KC gave us a few hints to 'choose' from. One was that Ground Zero Gas has dissipated some. I am going with that one. The Little One there attacked a regular one there for some unknown reason. We know many of the 'special' ones came from there. CJ said as much. Said the closer you get to Ground Zero the more unique ones you saw. That makes me think that gas changed you more than just into a Zed. Pushed the 'Evolution' further. Much like how the Zeds already have a better circulatory system. My other guess is that the gas makes you meaner and harder to control. Could explain why Hawaii was meaner (More Gas Maybe?) and why it was avoided and came back later.

Even if it doesn't make your "meaner', Ink is using the gas for something. My guess is to help with the New Little One breeding.


This is what I've assumed all along. But now, I don't know WHAT to think.

[Witch_Doctor]

What is the new Monster!

Deeper voice leads me to believe they are super sized little ones

Well, remember that the little one that attacked the soldiers at Raydon Labs was described as being bigger and wider. What does THAT mean?

[Grognaurd]

This is what I've assumed all along. But now, I don't know WHAT to think.

Me, too.

I would not put too much stock in what Kalami says. I think it is an example of hometown envy. When I was a kid, people used to complain that the rats ate bigger, meaner and smarter than anywhere else. Kalani was able to out run the biters in Hawaii as he was in LA. Then, the next time he encounters them, they are nice enough to give him free room and board at the Arena. So, I guess he is right the ones in Hawaii are meaner if they did not offer the same hospitality.

He neve mentions any special types in Hawaii, so my guess he just encountered normal biters and not the maart ones that Ink has assembled

[Grognaurd]

Well, remember that the little one that attacked the soldiers at Raydon Labs was described as being bigger and wider. What does THAT mean?

Yup, and Saul was not there to encounter it. My guess is it is puberty. Tanya describes under developed breasts and I think she notes a lack of deep roots in the teeth -- baby teeth

[Raven]

Yup, and Saul was not there to encounter it. My guess is it is puberty. Tanya describes under developed breasts and I think she notes a lack of deep roots in the teeth -- baby teeth

Lamarsh brings up a good point when Tanya was dissecting the little one. I would still like to know how they aged or what their apparent age was. I'm pretty sure if they looked like kids someone would have said something to the effect remember Tommy and Hope are still kids to our group so anything looking much younger than a pre-teen would probably get a mention.

[Raven]

His charm.... or his cologne?

I can't believe no one said it Senor Victor just goes *bam* and the zombies fall down convinced they were shot. They drive off and Ink comes out ala Gene Wilder in Frankenstein "Idiots! I'm surrounded by idiots!"

[wminscoe7]

They were both related to the group known as "The Family", but they are related to different groups(or families) within the Family....

So ink wears a family ring also with three circles. I have to get off this forum. My mind is spinning.

[Grognaurd]

So ink wears a family ring also with three circles. I have to get off this forum. My mind is spinning.

No, we have no evidence that Ink has a ring.

[wminscoe7]

Ok. I'm reading about the rings or markings on his hand, tattoos. I assumed a literal ring when I first read it. Oops. Copy of post below. It's long and totally blew me away with details. Copy below from another page:

I was reading through the thread for Chapter 30, part 1 of ?? and also went of in search of the cover art to have a look at it. Later in the thread, I read this, posted by wh33t:

Originally Posted by wh33t:
Ink is one tricky Mutha... who knows what he is up too. Maybe Ink is like a "god father" of the Families or something.
I thought to myself, why not check? I've had this thought before myself. The art for Chapter 27 is his hand gripping a door way. Surely someone would have noticed a ring by now, but I want to see for myself.

I think that I might have found something more interesting and sinister.

Have a good close look at his hand. At first glance it looks like a bunch of convoluted mumbo jumbo. I looked closer and made a few startling discoveries.

At his wrist (and on his pinky finger) are what looks like molecular symbols of a Benzine Ring. More specifically, those found in Aromatic Hydrocarbons and Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons. This specific one looks similar to Chrysene and Benzo(a)pyrene, both of which are known carcinogens. More specifically, the diagram on his wrist, if you flip it over, bears a striking resemblance to Benzo(a)pyrene's interaction with DNA. My guess is that it is another AH/PAH that is interacting with DNA in a way far more complex than cancer.

A great deal of these hydrocarbons are found in coal tar, oil, fossil fuel, ect., the stuff found underground. Did Ink know something about zombie causing chemicals underground and tattoo their symbols on his body?

It gets better and goes deeper.

On the back of his hand (and on his middle finger) are a series of lines and dots. To me, these look like one of, or a combination of:

The Celestial/Angelic Alphabet: (WIKI)
Documented (Created?) by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa in the 16th century. Derived from the Hebrew and Greek alphabets, and purported to be used for communication with angels.

The Malachim: (WIKI)
Same guy, also derived from the Hebrew and Greek alphabets. Still in use to a limited extent by the Freemasons.

The Transitus Fluvii or "Passing the River alphabet" (WIKI)
Same guy again. Derived from the Hebrew alphabets. It is described as an occult alphabet.

These, combined with others are found in/on the magical incantations of wards, talismans, curses and the like in many faiths such as early Judeo-Christianity and Druidic/Paganism. It seems that Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa may have building on King Solomon and the incorrectly attributed Key of Solomon, around which there are many legends of magical power relating to the summoning and control of spirits and demons.

Then there is the Snakes and the Bacteria. I'm at somewhat of a loss to explain these. The snakes could be a reference to the Original Sin, where the Fallen Angel Lucifer, in the form of a snake, persuaded Eve to eat the forbidden fruit.

As for the bacteria, I don't know if it is a generalized representation or meant to be a specific strain. While looking them up I was struck by the idea that the bacteria may be responsible for secreting the above mentioned chemicals. Perhaps a Molecular Chemist and a Bacteriologist could shed more light on this.

I wonder... it this meant to be indicative of the fusion of science and religion? The combination of the occult with technology that brought about the zombie holocaust? This adds another layer to the already mysterious question of who is this guy?

[Raven]

SAUL!!!! He is Branded!!!! Things are coming together.. Bill Roberts had no knowledge of the outbreak till after.. He was afraid of Death so he tattooed himself with all the protection markings from all cultures. His experiments were to figure it all out.

Tanya mentioning his being infected fixed him.. Now so much makes since.

Omega Man. I am Legend. Etc.. Men were the monsters in the Dark. Not the other way.

This is what I was thinking when I heard Tanya getting all defensive. When did she become a zombie sympathizer? IF this ends with Micheal saying "They are just looking for a place to live" alal the Day of the Dead remake rrrrr...

[Kc]

This is what I was thinking when I heard Tanya getting all defensive. When did she become a zombie sympathizer? IF this ends with Micheal saying "They are just looking for a place to live" alal the Day of the Dead remake rrrrr...

Just to try and clear the air of this, as it's come up a few times, Tanya isn't saying they aren't aggressive or hostile, just that the actions of our protagonists have escalated the problem. She's saying their actions directly correlate with the enhancement of their enemy.

Is that their fault? That's up to you. I have my answer, but I might keep that to me for now. But, think about this... those "enhancements" and creation of the little ones, were directly responsible for the fall of Boulder.

[Jannit]

On the idea that the special ones only came from the areas with the highest concentration of gas: I don't really dig it. There could be other factors at play as well. Where is that location in relation to people who could have become smart ones? If it's close to the university, hospital, office buildings, etc. there could be other reasons for those ones being smart and/or special other than just the gas.

If smart people become smart zombies, wouldn't it make some sort of sense for strong or fast people to become extra strong or fast zombies? Maybe that's where the runners and jumpers came from.

[Jannit]

Guys, I went back to look at Inglewood in a bit more detail and noticed one of the first mentions on Wikipedia is that there are Hot Springs where Eward Vincent Jr. Park is now. If there are hot springs in the area it lends credence to the theory that the gas could be a natural subtonic phenomena. This could also explain why the gas shows up in other areas of the city in that the other tunnels the zombies are using could be tapping into the same under ground tunnel or water system.

I just wanted to throw this out there as I don't remember off hand if anyone had made note of it before. My theory crafting time is going to be limited for the next few weeks so hopefully someone can get some use out of this.

[Litmaster]

And for those people saying Saul made it, keep in mind they still have a bomb to deliver down a tunnel. Who's the best candidate to sneak into the enemy base on a suicide mission? Someone with a fresh bite and a protection symbol scratched into his face? Michael didn't sound too confident that kodi could get by the zombies.

Fuck that, then just break out some paint brushes and plaster that protection symbol all over KODI! :nik:

[Grognaurd]

Here is some more real life stuff from that area... I wrote about it way back when, between seasons and I occasionally just reference "Fracking in Ingelwood". I do not mean do the Battlestar Galactica wild thing, fracking is real life process of pumping stuff down into old oil fields to get more of the good stuff out.

Pulled and edited from an old newspaper article...


On January 10, 2006, fracking at the Inglewood Oil Field released a cloud of fumes so toxic that residents of Baldwin Hills and Culver City were forced to evacuate their homes.

The Inglewood Oil Field in Baldwin Hills is the largest urban oilfield in the nation -- more than one million people live within five miles of the site -- and it sits atop a fault line capable of 7.4 magnitude earthquake. Drilling at the Inglewood Oil Field dates back to 1926, but the oil reserves were thought to be sucked dry ... until 2004, when PXP got the greenlight to drill three new wells.

[Gnex]

Fuck that, then just break out some paint brushes and plaster that protection symbol all over KODI! :nik:

exactly!!!! paint KODI up with the protection symbol and then sit him out in the open and yell "HELP!!! HELP ME!!!!" on the Radio........ Sit back and watch the Zombies come running up for a snack and then stop when they see the symbol....... then when they walk off yell Help again so they run back and forth....... just keep doing that until their heads explode from confusion!!! :D

[Jannit]

My only problem with the fracking angle is it's not something that would necessarily occur on a large enough scale world-wide to cause the apocalypse. I guess I like the idea of hot springs since they're naturally ocurring and water is much more common than oil. If there were a way for the virus/pathogen to spread in the ground water that'd explain how the entire world was affected all at once. At least that's how it plays out in my mind.

[Grognaurd]

That is the crux of the issue. I cannot think of a natural phenomena that happens in so many places at once. Mother Nature is more random and does not communicate over global distances in very short periods of time. That brings up intent. If there is intent, there is a conspiracy. Topside people? They are the only ones we know about, but why would anyone pull the trigger on this? Killing 6.5 billion people has gotta be hard on the karma.

An under-Earth intelligence? They get pissed off at us stealing all their dinosaur Kimche that they have stored away to eat later ( oil ) but, now we are fracking, we are not just stealing their food, we are flooding their tunnels with crap. So they attack. I do not think the story will play out his way. I am just stating that I have been looking at so many possibilities.

This also does not jive with ones that are littered with scars and bruises that Michael sees initially. If they contribute to the outbreak, we are then back to conspiracy, because people have to turn them lose in a number of cities.

If it is a gas, why would a scratch from a little one turn Amy in the attack of the colony? We can put something in the blood and have the little ones scratch themselves to get blood underneath their finger nails. But a gas? It could be a virus. Many virus and small bacteria can be next to impossible to see under a standard light microscope unless very strict staining protocols are used.

[Eviebae]

Just to try and clear the air of this, as it's come up a few times, Tanya isn't saying they aren't aggressive or hostile, just that the actions of our protagonists have escalated the problem. She's saying their actions directly correlate with the enhancement of their enemy.

Is that their fault? That's up to you. I have my answer, but I might keep that to me for now. But, think about this... those "enhancements" and creation of the little ones, were directly responsible for the fall of Boulder.

Is your point that an enemy isn't simply a villain who exists in order to be destroyed? The more you try to destroy a group, the more likely they are to respond in kind because they aren't cardboard cutouts providing you with an opportunity to win?

Humans tend to get caught up in false dichotomies and that's when you get the intractable foe and the unwin-able argument. We must win this way on that type of battlefield. Still, in this instance you'd never have a clearer example of one group's need to completely wipe out another. Co-existence isn't really an option. Maybe that's part of the appeal to the genre. No pesky ethical concerns.

Someone once said to me that every problem starts out as a solution to another problem. For instance, you try to save lives using medicines and end up creating a problematic pharmaceutical industry. I guess that's why Attila the Hun made it a point to only leave people shorter than a wagon wheel--less blow-back.

[Jannit]

All good questions, Grog! This story keeps me going in endless circles like some kind of crazy infinity loop which is part of the appeal. I'm almost dreading finding out how it all ends and getting my questions answered just because the chase has been so much fun.

[Eviebae]

If it is a gas, why would a scratch from a little one turn Amy in the attack of the colony? We can put something in the blood and have the little ones scratch themselves to get blood underneath their finger nails. But a gas? It could be a virus. Many virus and small bacteria can be next to impossible to see under a standard light microscope unless very strict staining protocols are used.

Or a prion, or--because it's almost over--the world may never know (3).

Maybe it's on their hands because when they cough they cover their mouths with their hands :D.

[Eviebae]

Um, Saul.... Angel.... Hope.... ? I don't recall a St. Bixby in the Bible. Wait- could Gatekeeper be a reference to St. Peter at the pearly gates??!?

Sorry dude, but I think you are

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.8844975.2236/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg
LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT JUST ISN'T THERE

It's there, it just might not mean anything important to KC in terms of the story. Maybe it's there because people used to use names from the bible in naming their kids, or certain concepts are deeply imbedded in our culture. There's always Jung.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

It's there, it just might not mean anything important to KC in terms of the story. Maybe it's there because people used to use names from the bible in naming their kids, or certain concepts are deeply imbedded in our culture. There's always Jung.

Well, it could be far worse (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063487/Parents-named-children-Adolf-Hitler-Aryan-Nation-wont-receive-custody-newborn-son-Hons.html) when it comes to choosing a good name.

[werewolf]

I hate to say it. after listening to it a couple of times. I was kind of disappointed in this one. I felt it was lacking something, and the flashbacks I felt it was over used. sorry KC and group. maybe I missed something, Ill go through it again.

[Jannit]

I hate to say it. after listening to it a couple of times. I was kind of disappointed in this one. I felt it was lacking something, and the flashbacks I felt it was over used. sorry KC and group. maybe I missed something, Ill go through it again.

One thing I found a bit odd about this one was the interruption to the emotion and flow of the episode with the use of flashbacks. I understand why it was done and all of that good stuff but it felt a bit clunky. It was much easier to lose myself in the storytelling other other episodes but this one definitely reminded me that I was an observer and less engaged than normal. Still good in terms of content, just not my favorite either.

[EatMyShorts]

Here's some random thoughts. Hope no one minds.

"Lion's Den" reminds me of the biblical story "Daniel and the lions den". Lions don't attack Daniel in the story. So maybe Saul goes back in to the zombie-hole (with a bomb or just to recon) sometime before this chapter ends. Makes sense to me.

Also who is smart enough to deduce the ultimate cause of the outbreak? The only person I can think of is maybe Ink (maybe via a journal or notes). So there is a chance that the root cause of the zombies is one of the mysteries that's left at the end. But Ink's actions looks like they'll be fully explained.

Ink...A Story of Survival.

[eda14]

Hey All, long time listener, first time poster.

This episode brought to mind something that happened much earlier in the show. If I recall, wasn't it mentioned that Durai knew what the zombies were up to, or something along those lines. Did he have some sort of idea what was coming in terms of the arms race we're seeing now?

[Eviebae]

Listening to the Fancast I got to thinking about the haze and the pile of zombie bodies outside the Arena. Maybe the reason they kept the zombie bodies outside and didn't eat them was because they gave off the haze?

It's so odd:

The haze seems to have something to do with turning people into zombies
But the zombies avoided the area the haze was strongest because it was supposedly toxic to them (tho they might be used to it now).
Decomposing zombies give off some version of the haze.
But zombies can and do eat each other (maybe only if the victim/loser is alive).
When they brought back the dead bodies of other zombies, they didn't seem to eat them.


Maybe like how the regular zombies can't tell the difference between a Skittles smell and an authentic zombie; they also can't smell the difference between a zombie and a human after they are dead.
Maybe they brought back all bodies they found and smarter ones sorted out the inedible ones when they got to the Arena?

It reminds me of a sad news story a few years ago where a woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Ramirez) had been taking DMSO for pain (she had terminal cancer) and while she was in the emergency ward her body began to give off toxic fumes. The nurses working with her passed out and had symptoms for months afterwards. Because the hospital were aiming for d#####es of the year by saying it was all in the nurses imagination; they did all this research into figuring out what had happened. It was finally determined that it was due to chemical reactions between her body and the DMSO that caused her body to give off a toxic gas.

[Grognaurd]

Listening to the Fancast I got to thinking about the haze and the pile of zombie bodies outside the Arena. Maybe the reason they kept the zombie bodies outside and didn't eat them was because they gave off the haze?

It's so odd:

The haze seems to have something to do with turning people into zombies
But the zombies avoided the area the haze was strongest because it was supposedly toxic to them (tho they might be used to it now).
Decomposing zombies give off some version of the haze.
But zombies can and do eat each other (maybe only if the victim/loser is alive).
When they brought back the dead bodies of other zombies, they didn't seem to eat them.


Maybe like how the regular zombies can't tell the difference between a Skittles smell and an authentic zombie; they also can't smell the difference between a zombie and a human after they are dead.
Maybe they brought back all bodies they found and smarter ones sorted out the inedible ones when they got to the Arena?

It reminds me of a sad news story a few years ago where a woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Ramirez) had been taking DMSO for pain (she had terminal cancer) and while she was in the emergency ward her body began to give off toxic fumes. The nurses working with her passed out and had symptoms for months afterwards. Because the hospital were aiming for d#####es of the year by saying it was all in the nurses imagination; they did all this research into figuring out what had happened. It was finally determined that it was due to chemical reactions between her body and the DMSO that caused her body to give off a toxic gas.

It could be, I had a different thought that is pretty gross. My brother is a foreman/ paramedic. He was told that some meth addicts were saving urine and then purifying the meth back out of the urine. Now, back to me biochemistry dude. The body often metabolize drugs, that is change them chemically before eliminating them. Meth is not, it comes out the same chemical.

My guess is Ink might have thought something similar for the gas. Maybe he could purify some of the gas from the bodies to use it as a raw material for hs experiments. Maybe the chemical is changed by the body when it gets in the saliva. But, inside the body it might be a purer form. Maybe a combination of purer gas and a higher concentration is required for special zombies. Sure, a bite can change someone into a zombie, but they are not as robust as those that were made at ground zero.

Kinda like a bottle of grape juice. Poor yourself a glass and then refill the bottle water. After too many glasses, it is more like water than grape juice. But, what we have with the biters is worse, because each glass is like the bottle. Take a drink and refill with water. People who poor the third or fourth glass from the bottle start off with weak flavor to begin with.

If Ink collects and concentrates the gas from dead bodies, he can eliminate this degradation and start making better ones. These in turn can make ones that are not as good as they are, but are better than ones made several generations from the initial outbreak.


My bias was the agent was a biological contagion that would replenish and concentrate itself in each body to avoid above process. It was also that Ink made the special ones. Going back to a gas where the exposure decays through transmission and high concentrations make special vampires seems to fits the data better

[Eviebae]

My brother is a foreman/ paramedic. He was told that some meth addicts were saving urine and then purifying the meth back out of the urine.


first, ewwww!
Creative and smart, but ewwwww!

So, they could be secreting it through their skin--that would explain why scratching works (other than zombie tradition). But if the haze passes through their body and comes out unchanged, why do they change into the same type that turned them?

I mean, if the differences between the first turned (runners, etc) can be explained by what they were like before they changed how is that passed along?