Chapter 46-3 Under Pressure

[nikvoodoo]

If you aren't watching the NHL playoffs, you're missing out on an amazing stripped down a capella version of just the vocals to "Under Pressure" by Freddie Mercury and David Bowie.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hMKvUbmRYs

That is completely irrelevant to We're Alive aside from the titles, but I enjoy the piss out of it.

Happy Monday!

[pmchawk]

After the last 2 were released early in now going through withdrawals on not hearing a new episode yet...

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

It is about time for a Vic-defining episode - so bring it on.

"Vic, Ah, ah, He's a miracle"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS4_Z84-rRE&feature=kp

"Just a man with a man's courage
He knows nothing but a man
But he can never fail
No one but the pure in heart
May find the golden grail oh oh oh oh"

Bring it on, Vic!

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/mexican-wrestler-15002286.jpg

[Merlin1274]

Yes every time I read the title of this Chapter that song plays in my head.. Its always just the words. "Under Pressure"

Now time to find out the pressure in this chapter.. I hope it action packed and Rock n Roll with a Scratch Attack!! B&R gonna whoop some A$$!!

[pmchawk]

Watch, scratch is following Michael Vic and Saul.

[EatMyShorts]

No love for ZZTop's "Got Me Under Pressure"?

[Footbutt]

i think 46-3 will be all about Burt & Riley.
kind of hoping this chapter will end with a death cliffhanger.

[pmchawk]

!! Wouldn't it be funny if they hit Ink with the attract bottle.

[UndeadSweeper]

!! Wouldn't it be funny if they hit Ink with the attract bottle.

Would that be like the Weeping Angel ? Ink can't turn away or stop eye contact.

[Osiris]

:hsugh:

[pmchawk]

Would that be like the Weeping Angel ? Ink can't turn away or stop eye contact.

Sadly I don't get the reference.

[UndeadSweeper]

Sadly I don't get the reference.

Probably one the best Dr. Who eps, Blink, I have seen with David Tennant

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

:hsugh:

Osiris, are you using a smiley robot which randomly creates posts here? Just asking. :)

[Osiris]

Osiris, are you using a smiley robot which randomly creates posts here? Just asking. :)

:nik:

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

:nik:

Touché, Monsieur, it does not take a lot of characters to convey a message. http://rawksoup.com/neighborhood/pg/blog/read/1038/the-shortest-letter-ever-written

[pmchawk]

:nik:

👍

[Litmaster]

I'm afraid the Scratch storyline is about to close, so i predict:

Both redshirt Mallers bite it here, and one from Scratch or Burt bite it within the next 2 episides. It better NOT be Burt....

[Litmaster]

!! Wouldn't it be funny if they hit Ink with the attract bottle.

Ha! But first shoot him with a bunch of paint guns to cover up his protective tats... :nik:

[Grognaurd]

Well, since Burt narrated this chapter, it is almost certain he makes it back from the cabin. He actually sounds pleased that he has something significant to report until he recalls that the start of his success coincides with loss of Lizzy and Datu.

[Gooer]

Hopefully it's a nice action packed episode, considering its a part 3'er...... I bet it will be something HUGE......

[Osiris]

I'm afraid the Scratch storyline is about to close, so i predict:

Both redshirt Mallers bite it here, and one from Scratch or Burt bite it within the next 2 episides. It better NOT be Burt....

Burt does not see the end of the story.

[pmchawk]

Sigh. Gotta restart. Says the episode is unavailable

[pmchawk]

Still unavailable and it is an instant download when I try that rather then streaming.

[Footbutt]

Still unavailable and it is an instant download when I try that rather then streaming.

same here. i'm too eager.

edit: listening now...

[pmchawk]

Let us know when it's fixed KC.

[Osiris]

It IS fixed.

[Storm]

Glad to see I'm not the only one having troubles with the download then...

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Downloading...

[Osiris]

He... picked it. Okay.

[pmchawk]

It IS fixed.


👏

[Grognaurd]

Wasn't Lawrence Fishburne in The Colony? That was scifi zombies?

[Osiris]

Wasn't Lawrence Fishburne in The Colony? That was scifi zombies?

Feral clan-based cannibals.

[Osiris]

I call bullshit on the chemist picking the lock with a chunk of metal. Never gonna happen.

[Osiris]

Remember that time Tardust swallowed some bullets? Good times. Riley's arc is at a close.

[Osiris]

So the Riley/Scratch parallel is complete, and it's all white whales and tears of regret. Riley will not kill Scratch. Burt will not see the end. Michael will put an end to Scratch after she kills Pegs. The baby lives in the woods with Saul, Victor, and Kelly.

The End.

[pmchawk]

He is so going to spill the beans.

[Osiris]

Don't worry. Saul isn't going to die.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

So, we already had the "Under Pressure" reference, here is a farewell to Tardust:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE

[Footbutt]

Another Michael-led expedition gone awry. (sp?)

LOVE the origin behind the gas pockets in Englewood.
so much room for specualtion!

[pmchawk]

That's just wrong...

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

The Riley-Burt-Tardust scene reminded me a lot of Seven:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1giVzxyoclE

[UndeadSweeper]

I think the parallel is more between Micheal/Scratch then Riley/Scratch.

Also can finally question Micheal's leadership? It has been two or three missions in where he has lose valuable members of the group.

[Osiris]

I think the parallel is more between Micheal/Scratch then Riley/Scratch.

What makes you say that?

[katlero]

Don't worry. Saul isn't going to die.


Yes he is! Been saying it for ages!

[Osiris]

Yes he is! Been saying it for ages!

Maybe you're right.

[Merlin1274]

Riley turned to the Dark side.
Tanya gets closer to knowing nothing still about the gas.
Damn-it Randy!!!! Saul bitten. Now I guess we will find out if he is really immune or not..

Damn 2 wk wait..

[UndeadSweeper]

Micheal and Scratch have a mission in mind and are get more dangerous for the group they with. Riley seems to be under influence of something else. One would think that she start this to avenge Angel but it seem that she just want to die for a cause. She turn more darker and darker that I believe that Burt may have to be the one who put her down.

[katlero]

Riley turned to the Dark side.
Tanya gets closer to knowing nothing still about the gas.
Damn-it Randy!!!! Saul bitten. Now I guess we will find out if he is really immune or not..

Damn 2 wk wait..

Even if he is immune, the guy got bit in the neck! Is it even physically possible to come back from that?

[Grognaurd]

Well, Lady can track. Does Tanya enter the tunnels to get her son put of this prison, unlike the last time when she moved without telling him? SCUBA gear again? Wild cards, Kelly and Hope are unknowns when it comes to the gas. Hope has the additional advantage of being used to walking in the Dark.

:tinfoil:
Hope and Lady the two characters who appear to be the most useless rescue Saul???

[Footbutt]

Riley turned to the Dark side.


i still can't commit to the extreme of saying she's "turned to the dark side."
made a rash, emotional decision? yes.
jeopardize the rest of the group by doing so? not really, i think...

there's so many stinkin' gray areas in WA, and given the two-folded news she had just received, i'm not condemning her actions completely.

Tardust saw the end of his life and chose to be an a-hole.

[Grognaurd]

Even if he is immune, the guy got bit in the neck! Is it even physically possible to come back from that?

Datu survived Randy's bite

[Footbutt]

Saul's first journal entry mentioned:
"...and if i turn into one of those things because you sent me out here, then your ass is lunch."

FOREBODE....

[Osiris]

Micheal and Scratch have a mission in mind and are get more dangerous for the group they with. Riley seems to be under influence of something else. One would think that she start this to avenge Angel but it seem that she just want to die for a cause. She turn more darker and darker that I believe that Burt may have to be the one who put her down.

So... what you're saying is the Riley has less in common with Scratch than Michael has?

All three are mission oriented.
All three are out for payback.
All three are hunting their foe.

Riley is out to avenge Angel's death.
Scratch is out to avenge Latch's death.
Michael is tired of losing ground.

[Grognaurd]

Going way back to Season One, Saul wrote something like

...and Michael, if I get turned into one of those things, your ass is lunch!

[katlero]

Datu survived Randy's bite

I'm wondering more about the location of the bite versus the biter. For some reason I thought Datu was bit on the shoulder and by a regular one. I'll have to go relisten.

[HardKor]

Well...So THAT happened...

Okay so this episode had three acts to it, so I'll take them one at a time:

Act 1: Pegs and Tanya
So it does seem like the zombies have been around before and created pockets of z-gas underground. Or at least Tanya thinks so. Not much new here, just nice to know we are starting to get on the right track with all this theorizing.

Act 2: Exit Tardust
Well...damn. So it was starting to look like maybe Riley and Burt might pull out of this vengeance cycle and start to return to a bit to sanity but then Burt get the reveal about Lizzy dying dragged out of him, setting things on edge, then Tardust decides to grab the Idiot Ball and run with it. Seriously I always figured Tardust to be a little more thoughtful and deliberate than that. But no, he just had to go and open his mouth....
I can't say Tardust will be missed by any stretch of the imagination, but now Riley and Burt have reached the point of no return. Either this will wake them up and force them to see that their obsession with revenge will be their undoing and give it up, or they'll continue on and it will end up being their undoing.

Act 3: Randy, Saul and the Tunnel 'o Love
Soo...looks like we're gonna get a definitive answer on the whole "Are Saul and Tanya immune?" question, at least for Saul. My guess is Saul's not gonna be effected by the bite and Michael and Vic are gonna end mounting a rescue party. I mean, how else are we gonna get to explore the dark labyrinthine tunnels of zombie horror and intrigue? Who goes on the mission and how do they deal with the gas? I don't know. But I do know that my whole "Release the gas, kill the zombies" theory just pretty much got shot to hell. That hole was belching out gas like crazy and Randy didn't seem to mind one bit.
So I guess I should move on to my next :tinfoil: theory: The zombies are using the haze to terraform the earth. Someone else brought up the Doctor Who Episode "Blink" so I'll keep the theme alive by bringing up "The Sontaran Stratagem/The Poison Sky." Using poison gas to create a new environment for another species to live in. I'm not saying the zombies are alien (although at this point I won't discount anything) but maybe just something primordial that is trying to reclaim the earth and the release of the zombie gas will help them do so by eliminating any threats to their place as the dominant species.

P.S.
The line of the episode: "She'll hug you one day and slit your throat the next. Literally! That actually happened once!"

[EatMyShorts]

It's funny to hear Burt try to calm situations down. He's so bad at it. At least 0 and 4 so far.

[TacticalJHP]

i still can't commit to the extreme of saying she's "turned to the dark side."
made a rash, emotional decision? yes.
jeopardize the rest of the group by doing so? not really, i think...

there's so many stinkin' gray areas in WA, and given the two-folded news she had just received, i'm not condemning her actions completely.

Tardust saw the end of his life and chose to be an a-hole.

No, she is not fully turned to the dark side.

Like you said, it was an emotional decision.

But she had not turned dark, and there is a reason i know. She cried. A truly dark person is a Narcissist, and does not weep for the action they commit, they feel not remorse for what they have done as it benefits them or makes them feel better.

Killing Tardust made her feel better, and also removed one less scumbag from the picture. Yet she cried. She has not turned to the dark side.

[Verse]

My thoughts:

I knew Tardust would die by Riley's hand as soon as they caught him. I really do like that he threw it back in their face that they are the same as Scratch. Just as crazy. I like that he got to say his piece before he died. He was able to tell her what we the fans wanted to tell her. "This doesn't end well for me" " So we are just friends now" and such. Really hit home that he knew his life was forfeit as soon as they caught him. That he knew it. She proved it. He made some really damn good points. Mainly about perception and Riley and Burt being no different.

I knew she would kill him over Lizzy, but didn't like the exchange. It felt like she had to know so she could justify it, and we can justify her anger as fans. Tardust hold out for for so long to have her go "Kulani said he didn't have files" and Tardust go "Um...uh...eh... I tried to rape her?" . Didn't try and deny it. Tried to say "It's ok really." I would have thought he would go "Look.. Kulani feed us stuff. We knew all your names. It is what it is. Sorry you trust the mole over what I am telling you" or go "Yeah, Scratch took care of her at the Colony. I saw her a decent amount". Instead he goes straight to the "Umm... oops?" We knew he was going to die though. It is for character growth though. She had to hear it from him so she can make the choice.

I will put a check next to "Randy understands he is hurting Michael". He grabbed Saul and looked at Michael. Short of him saying "Hey Ex-Buddy. I'm going to bite another one of your new buddies!" I don't know what else can be done to show that Randy is hurting Michael on purpose. He made a statement at the Windmill saying "I can take them out your House" and now he is saying "You come here and I will do the same". I think Randy is doing it all on purpose to get back at Michael leaving him alive.

I have said all along that from a Story Telling standpoint we will have to know how Ink knew about the Zombies ahead of time. Just too big of a Plot Hole. This gives us that. Randy and Co will think Saul is turned. Saul will still smell of Skittles while being bite. So he will find out. My guess is that the scientist in Ink will not allow him to not look into it. He will have to tell Saul about it. He will relish in the fact that there is someone to talk to or something. We be like "Your Immune? How does that work? Can I use this" then Saul will goad him into talking. Odds are Ink has't had that in a long time and will enjoy it. Then Saul gets and tells Dunbar or something.

[LiamKerrington]

This chapter concludes some things of the show.

Randy is part of Ink's army.
Zombies and the gas are closely related.
Smart Ones or at least the Smart One Randy is able to look through the smell-camoflage Michael, Victor, and Saul use to cover their scent.
Tardust is D-E-D, dead, ya hear? He was meant to die, because he did horrible things in the past. But I am not certain if I like the way it played out. To me this whole cabin-scene was kind of rushed too much. It made no sense for me. First Tardust is treated like shit and as a prisoner based on a theme of revenge; then Tardust gets hurt and he plays so well along that the pendulum swings towards some weird friendship evolving, especially with Burt and Tardust speaking about bio-diesel; then Burt all of a sudden has this look on his face and Riley gets crazy about it; then Tardust lets down his defenses; and then "blam" ... Nah, didn't like this seen, 'cause actually it could have been made ... different?
And Tardust was right when he compared Riley (and Burt?) with Scratch.
(And about these two latter cases: I would not wonder a lot, if the majority looks at it from a different angle than mine ...)

[clem131]

I will skip all considerations on Riley being now totally corrupt, since it has been said already. I have really a hard time buying a part of the dialog between Tar, Burt and Riley. "How do you know her?". Really? I can overlook that Kalani actually mentionned Lizzy in his log, Riley might have forgotten that. But the question is just... how did he knew her? I don't know, maybe the months and months and months she spent with the Mallers? Am I missing something obvious?

[HardKor]

I will skip all considerations on Riley being now totally corrupt, since it has been said already. I have really a hard time buying a part of the dialog between Tar, Burt and Riley. "How do you know her?". Really? I can overlook that Kalani actually mentionned Lizzy in his log, Riley might have forgotten that. But the question is just... how did he knew her? I don't know, maybe the months and months and months she spent with the Mallers? Am I missing something obvious?

Yeah, Tardust really grabbed hold of the Idiot Ball when he first opened his mouth about Lizzy and didn't let go until he got a bullet to the head. The only possible justification I can think of for why he confessed so quickly is that maybe he figured they would drag him again or something worse if he didn't.
Once Riley brought up the whole "you were at the furniture store" thing (and how in the hell did she figure that one out?), it wouldn't be too much of a leap in logic for Tardust to figure that once they had him pegged as the would-be rapist, he was done no matter what lies he concocted to try and get out of it. So a bullet to the head is a better death then being dragged again until he confessed and then possibly being dragged to death once he did.

[Kc]

Yeah, Tardust really grabbed hold of the Idiot Ball when he first opened his mouth about Lizzy and didn't let go until he got a bullet to the head. The only possible justification I can think of for why he confessed so quickly is that maybe he figured they would drag him again or something worse if he didn't.
Once Riley brought up the whole "you were at the furniture store" thing (and how in the hell did she figure that one out?), it wouldn't be too much of a leap in logic for Tardust to figure that once they had him pegged as the would-be rapist, he was done no matter what lies he concocted to try and get out of it. So a bullet to the head is a better death then being dragged again until he confessed and then possibly being dragged to death once he did.

Yeah, Tardust fumbled the ball at that point. He could have made up a lie and maybe got a away with it, but just didn't happen. Once Riley made the connection about the attempted rape... well. you know.

[TacticalJHP]

I will put a check next to "Randy understands he is hurting Michael". He grabbed Saul and looked at Michael. Short of him saying "Hey Ex-Buddy. I'm going to bite another one of your new buddies!" I don't know what else can be done to show that Randy is hurting Michael on purpose. He made a statement at the Windmill saying "I can take them out your House" and now he is saying "You come here and I will do the same". I think Randy is doing it all on purpose to get back at Michael leaving him alive.


Don't forget, Randy and Saul knew each other as well. Saul even recognized him.


I can overlook that Kalani actually mentionned Lizzy in his log, Riley might have forgotten that.

Riley was being detained when Michael was reading Kalani's logbook, but if she read it again later, that is all on her.

[Vlarken]

Glad I'm not the only one who's confused by the Riley, Burt and Tardust scene. I just cannot buy that Tardust, who is not stupid, would not be able to think of a lie to keep himself from being found out as Lizzy's would-be-rapist. And if not a lie, then why didn't he just deny it over and over? He could see that Burt definitely did not want to kill him, and that it was all Riley. Beyond that point, even, why the hell would he egg her on like that? I don't buy that he thought he was already dead so a gunshot would be cleaner: Tardust is smart and he is a coward, he didn't want to die no matter what. So, in keeping with his character, he would have made up excuses and lied his way out no matter how mad or desperate he was. No, I think his outburst was far out of character for him. Now, I'll tell you how I could have bought it: if Riley and Burt's torture of him had been harsher. If they had, say, cut off his finger or something, I could see him actually thinking, "they're crazy. They're no different from Scratch." But what they did to him was tame in comparison to Scratch's insanity. I just can't buy the whole thought process.

[Osiris]

smh

[Footbutt]

smh

yep.
i think the scene with Burt, Riley, and Tardust sounded very believable, natural, even.

[Osiris]

yep.
i think the scene with Burt, Riley, and Tardust sounded very believable, natural, even.

:peeps:

[clem131]

I knew she would kill him over Lizzy, but didn't like the exchange. It felt like she had to know so she could justify it, and we can justify her anger as fans.

This is what I was trying to say. I cannot rep you though :/

[Grognaurd]

Maybe Tardust couldn't lie to Riley. She seems to have a way with people. Even when Skittles was schyzo, he would respond to her. Well, within reason. He did run away from her, Datu and Angel

[clem131]

Yeah, Tardust really grabbed hold of the Idiot Ball when he first opened his mouth about Lizzy and didn't let go until he got a bullet to the head. The only possible justification I can think of for why he confessed so quickly is that maybe he figured they would drag him again or something worse if he didn't.
Once Riley brought up the whole "you were at the furniture store" thing (and how in the hell did she figure that one out?), it wouldn't be too much of a leap in logic for Tardust to figure that once they had him pegged as the would-be rapist, he was done no matter what lies he concocted to try and get out of it. So a bullet to the head is a better death then being dragged again until he confessed and then possibly being dragged to death once he did.

Yes, but I had no problem with him frakking up: he ran a marathon, got his leg almost chopped and got drunk all within 12 hours. The problem for me is why would Riley even ask that? Isn't it obvious? Lizzy was with them for months. It took me out of the listening for a few seconds.

[Storm]

Yes, but I had no problem with him frakking up: he ran a marathon, got his leg almost chopped and got drunk all within 12 hours. The problem for me is why would she even ask that? Isn't it obvious? Lizzy was with them for months. It took me out of the listening for a few seconds.

I so much agree. Lol! Well, you know, blame the strong whisky... It cost 72k, it better knock your brain over a bit...
But yeah, it doesn't really make sense to me either... My only hope is that Burt will kill/in some other way get rid of Riley as soon as possible, I just can't stand her by now.
And even though Tardust tried to rape Lizzy back then I still feel sorry for him. Poor guy.

R.I.P. Philip

[Osiris]

My thoughts:

I knew Tardust would die by Riley's hand as soon as they caught him. I really do like that he threw it back in their face that they are the same as Scratch. Just as crazy. I like that he got to say his piece before he died. He was able to tell her what we the fans wanted to tell her. "This doesn't end well for me" " So we are just friends now" and such. Really hit home that he knew his life was forfeit as soon as they caught him. That he knew it. She proved it. He made some really damn good points. Mainly about perception and Riley and Burt being no different.

I knew she would kill him over Lizzy, but didn't like the exchange. It felt like she had to know so she could justify it, and we can justify her anger as fans. Tardust hold out for for so long to have her go "Kulani said he didn't have files" and Tardust go "Um...uh...eh... I tried to rape her?" . Didn't try and deny it. Tried to say "It's ok really." I would have thought he would go "Look.. Kulani feed us stuff. We knew all your names. It is what it is. Sorry you trust the mole over what I am telling you" or go "Yeah, Scratch took care of her at the Colony. I saw her a decent amount". Instead he goes straight to the "Umm... oops?" We knew he was going to die though. It is for character growth though. She had to hear it from him so she can make the choice.

I will put a check next to "Randy understands he is hurting Michael". He grabbed Saul and looked at Michael. Short of him saying "Hey Ex-Buddy. I'm going to bite another one of your new buddies!" I don't know what else can be done to show that Randy is hurting Michael on purpose. He made a statement at the Windmill saying "I can take them out your House" and now he is saying "You come here and I will do the same". I think Randy is doing it all on purpose to get back at Michael leaving him alive.

I have said all along that from a Story Telling standpoint we will have to know how Ink knew about the Zombies ahead of time. Just too big of a Plot Hole. This gives us that. Randy and Co will think Saul is turned. Saul will still smell of Skittles while being bite. So he will find out. My guess is that the scientist in Ink will not allow him to not look into it. He will have to tell Saul about it. He will relish in the fact that there is someone to talk to or something. We be like "Your Immune? How does that work? Can I use this" then Saul will goad him into talking. Odds are Ink has't had that in a long time and will enjoy it. Then Saul gets and tells Dunbar or something.

:D

[Osiris]

Scratch is all

http://i.imgur.com/QibXec6.gif

[Verse]

:D

We don't agree on a lot of things, but I think we are on the same page on this one.

[Gooer]

Listening now:
Hm, so they are thinking the gas may have been sealed underground, and the tunnels being dug are releasing it... hmm....... wonder what it's about....

[Gooer]

Well, Burt and Riley have found the cabin from the episode art. Wonder if anyone is in....

Ooh, bear traps, how sneaky.

Wow what an idiot, he stepped in a bear trap. Bet he did it so Scratch heard him....

Ooooooh, Tardust brought up how they are no different to Scratch. I kinda like him now....

Feel kinda sorry for him though, he has some good points that they won't believe him....

Oh damn, they're on the binge again.... this won't be good.

[Osiris]

Well, Burt and Riley have found the cabin from the episode art. Wonder if anyone is in....

Ooh, bear traps, how sneaky.

Wow what an idiot, he stepped in a bear trap. Bet he did it so Scratch heard him....

Ooooooh, Tardust brought up how they are no different to Scratch. I kinda like him now....

Feel kinda sorry for him though, he has some good points that they won't believe him....

Oh damn, they're on the binge again.... this won't be good.

Kinda like the rapist? Cool.

[Gooer]

Oh look, they're talking about bio-diesel. Funny that.

Hm, are they warming up to Tardust?

Oh, is Burt about to tell Riley Lizzy is dead? :( Oh fuck she figured it out. Noooooo, not back to this sad side of the show.....

OH GOD, NOW TARDUST IS SPILLING THE SHIT. NOW ITS ALL OUT. Shit is happening.....

Man, he really is pushing her.

Oh damn, now he's dead. Balls. Well, i take back saying i liked him.

[Gooer]

Kinda like the rapist? Cool.

Well obviously not that part. And after listening to the bit later, i retracted that now.

[Gooer]

Well, seems MVS found the missing dirt..... seems the repellent is still working.

Trouble breathing, is it like GZ? Yea, they just confirmed it. And Saul is fine, just like Tanya.

Oh shit, now it's going down. Is Randy going to kidnap Saul?

NOOOOOOOOOOONHEIRTHJNTFBIJHIDTOHBRJGIER NOT SAUL PLEASE GOD NOW WHYYYYYYY

[Gooer]

Wow.....ok....

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THIS CHAPTER?

[Gooer]

Two points i have to say:

1. It seems Randy really has it out for Michael. Guess it proves that they can remember their last life when they are a human, or at least the final hours. It shows Randy has a lot of resentment towards Michael, considering he looked right at him before biting Saul. Man that sucks, swear if Saul dies....

2. Have the zombies gained some sort of Immunity to the gas now? The first time we encounter GZ, no zombies were there, and it appeared they could not enter. Then the 2nd encounter, we see a normal and a crazy/mutated Little one there too. While the gas returns, it seems the Little one is not effected. Then the 3rd "kind of encounter but not really" at the end of this chapter shows the zombies going through it as they please. Have they evolved to use it as a defense, or what?

[Gooer]

Riley will not kill Scratch. Burt will not see the end. Michael will put an end to Scratch after she kills Pegs.

Been saying this forever....least other people are starting to see it too.

[Gooer]

Well, Lady can track. Does Tanya enter the tunnels to get her son put of this prison, unlike the last time when she moved without telling him? SCUBA gear again? Wild cards, Kelly and Hope are unknowns when it comes to the gas. Hope has the additional advantage of being used to walking in the Dark.

:tinfoil:
Hope and Lady the two characters who appear to be the most useless rescue Saul???

That would require Lady being able to breathe the gas too. which i doubt.

But if it did happen, is this finally the chance for them to reconcile?

[Osiris]

I don't even really see Michael being the one to do it. We talked about it earlier. I'm leaning toward Victor or Kelly taking her out. Michael will probably die trying to kill Ink to save Saul. Saul dies leaving Tanya to raise the boy. Lizzy dies trying to get to Scratch, and Burt either manages to get away (barely) or dies in the fight.

***Edit


Replace Lizzy with Riley.

[alexcadtek]

So the Riley/Scratch parallel is complete, and it's all white whales and tears of regret. Riley will not kill Scratch. Burt will not see the end. Michael will put an end to Scratch after she kills Pegs. The baby lives in the woods with Saul, Victor, and Kelly.

The End.


Burt will never die! NEVER! You hear me, NEVER!

[Osiris]

Burt will never die! NEVER! You hear me, NEVER!

http://i.imgur.com/n6J5eWo.gif

[Gooer]

I don't even really see Michael being the one to do it. We talked about it earlier. I'm leaning toward Victor or Kelly taking her out. Michael will probably die trying to kill Ink to save Saul. Saul dies leaving Tanya to raise the boy. Lizzy dies trying to get to Scratch, and Burt either manages to get away (barely) or dies in the fight.


Lizzy's dead, so i'm guessing you made a mistake. Not sure who you meant when you said Lizzy. I bet it's Pegs that takes her out, being the one that takes out both of the twins.

[TacticalJHP]

Not one person has commented on this shit?!?!?!

3148

Come on people.

First off, his shirt is torn, and he is dirty as hell.

Some bloodstains.

In agony, or enraged?

Thoughts?

[Osiris]

Lizzy's dead, so i'm guessing you made a mistake. Not sure who you meant when you said Lizzy. I bet it's Pegs that takes her out, being the one that takes out both of the twins.

Not Lizzy. What's her name. French Lizzy. Wouldn't think you'd get the gist of it. Context means nothing to you.

[Gooer]

Not Lizzy. What's her name. French Lizzy.

*facepalm*

[Osiris]

*facepalm*

Cool story. Can you tell me about it again? More depth though.

[GeneraLee]

Yes, but I had no problem with him frakking up: he ran a marathon, got his leg almost chopped and got drunk all within 12 hours. The problem for me is why would she even ask that? Isn't it obvious? Lizzy was with them for months. It took me out of the listening for a few seconds.

Yeah, I'm not sure why people expected him to lie so quickly and precisely. It seemed at first with the whiskey he was trying to make good with everyone. Almost be buddy buddy, and maybe the only reason he mentioned Lizzy was to share sympathize, and then stumbled when they made a different connection he didn't realize how to cover quickly enough. The first words out of Riley's mouth was that he was lying. Keep in mind he's exhausted, bleeding, and drunk. I think people really wanted a line of excuse more about him being at the colony, but at the same time he didn't spend a lot of time with Lizzy, that was Bricks. He just didn't think of it fast enough.

[alexcadtek]

Saul will Die, but kill INK in doiing so, since he will get really really close to him. Scratch Will attack the new building and try to still the baby, So there will be another stand off well Michael, Victor and Saul get back from killing INK, Burt and Riley will have beet them getting to the new building. Burt will kill Scratch, Vicotr will promise to take care of the baby with Kelly and that will be the end of that.

[MrRedBeard]

I call bullshit on the chemist picking the lock with a chunk of metal. Never gonna happen.
Also a member of a crime family, was in prison and a rapist. Seems well rounded.

[MrRedBeard]

Even if he is immune, the guy got bit in the neck! Is it even physically possible to come back from that?
He did let out a scream which means he's got airflow and maybe not a jugular bite.

[GeneraLee]

Also a member of a crime family, was in prison and a rapist. Seems well rounded.

Tardust wasn't part of the family. A criminal, yes, but not part of that organization.


Two points i have to say:

1. It seems Randy really has it out for Michael. Guess it proves that they can remember their last life when they are a human, or at least the final hours. It shows Randy has a lot of resentment towards Michael, considering he looked right at him before biting Saul. Man that sucks, swear if Saul dies....

2. Have the zombies gained some sort of Immunity to the gas now? The first time we encounter GZ, no zombies were there, and it appeared they could not enter. Then the 2nd encounter, we see a normal and a crazy/mutated Little one there too. While the gas returns, it seems the Little one is not effected. Then the 3rd "kind of encounter but not really" at the end of this chapter shows the zombies going through it as they please. Have they evolved to use it as a defense, or what?

We learned that new gas is coming from the bodies now... Perhaps the gas at ground zero was older/slightly more caustic to them, and this, coming from most likely fresher dead bodies of their own they've collected isn't as bad to them.


Not one person has commented on this shit?!?!?!

3148

Come on people.

First off, his shirt is torn, and he is dirty as hell.

Some bloodstains.

In agony, or enraged?

Thoughts?

Lucky timing for advertising?

[Osiris]

Also a member of a crime family, was in prison and a rapist. Seems well rounded.

Yeah, I don't buy it. You can be involved in an aspect of a criminal organization, go to prison because you got caught, and try to rape somebody... that don't make you Houdini, son.

[clem131]

Not one person has commented on this shit?!?!?!

3148

Come on people.

First off, his shirt is torn, and he is dirty as hell.

Some bloodstains.

In agony, or enraged?

Thoughts?

Uh, yes: what is that? ^^'

[MrRedBeard]

Tardust wasn't part of the family. A criminal, yes, but not part of that organization.
Oh my bad on the family detail, I just assumed all this time he was.

[MrRedBeard]

Be sure to join us tonight on the We're Alive FanCast Live Show and have your opinions and theories heard. Visit http://werealive.mickred.com/ for more details.

[Verse]

Be sure to join us tonight on the We're Alive FanCast Live Show and have your opinions and theories heard. Visit http://werealive.mickred.com/ for more details.

I should be there. I normally got to work insanely early on Tuesdays, and I'm on the East Coast. Not an issue this time.

[Grognaurd]

The Gas...

CJ said that one person from her tower was exposed to the gas at ground zero and then exhibited changes similar enough to the biters that she shot him. We have already seen multiple exposures to Victor and Pegs as well as Tanya and Saul. I sure hope Michael got a small exposure when rescuing Lizzy in Chapter 2 and has built some antibodies to resist the gas and does not go the way as CJ's person.

If Saul, Michael and a few others go over to Ink's side, who will you route for? Maybe a question of the week for WAFancast?

[TacticalJHP]

Yeah, I don't buy it. You can be involved in an aspect of a criminal organization, go to prison because you got caught, and try to rape somebody... that don't make you Houdini, son.

You don't need to be a Houdini to pick handcuffs.

They are actually the EASIEST locks to pick. They are either a simple barrel key with a flag, or straight key with flag.

Jam a piece of metal, wood, plastic, or anything with rigidity and a slight curve to it that fits in the key hole, turn to depress the ratchet, and the handcuffs slide right off.

[Witch_Doctor]

I will skip all considerations on Riley being now totally corrupt, since it has been said already. I have really a hard time buying a part of the dialog between Tar, Burt and Riley. "How do you know her?". Really? I can overlook that Kalani actually mentionned Lizzy in his log, Riley might have forgotten that. But the question is just... how did he knew her? I don't know, maybe the months and months and months she spent with the Mallers? Am I missing something obvious?

Thorn in my side too. Maybe we can chalk it up to Tardust being too tired to realized that his time around her in the Colony was a viable alibi. Perhaps he just gave up (Though it seems he gave up AFTER they wouldn't buy his excuse about the Kalani files.)

[Gooer]

Cool story. Can you tell me about it again? More depth though.

Why bother replying if you just say something like that? It's not needed.....

[Gooer]

Have mixed opinions on the Tardust scene. It was a little quick, like it was rushed just to get it out of the way for whats coming up, but at the same time, story wise, it just looks like Tardust knew what was going to happen, and couldn't be bothered to wait for it to come. He saw his chance (Riley getting upset over Lizzy) and he took it.

[Witch_Doctor]

Yeah, Tardust really grabbed hold of the Idiot Ball when he first opened his mouth about Lizzy and didn't let go until he got a bullet to the head. The only possible justification I can think of for why he confessed so quickly is that maybe he figured they would drag him again or something worse if he didn't.
Once Riley brought up the whole "you were at the furniture store" thing (and how in the hell did she figure that one out?), it wouldn't be too much of a leap in logic for Tardust to figure that once they had him pegged as the would-be rapist, he was done no matter what lies he concocted to try and get out of it. So a bullet to the head is a better death then being dragged again until he confessed and then possibly being dragged to death once he did.

You hit the head on the nail!

[Osiris]

You don't need to be a Houdini to pick handcuffs.

They are actually the EASIEST locks to pick. They are either a simple barrel key with a flag, or straight key with flag.

Jam a piece of metal, wood, plastic, or anything with rigidity and a slight curve to it that fits in the key hole, turn to depress the ratchet, and the handcuffs slide right off.

Put yourself in police handcuffs (not novelty handcuffs) and shoot video of this. I'd love to watch you do it. Not somebody else. You. Only you.

[Osiris]

Why bother replying if you just say something like that? It's not needed.....

I honestly wonder this every single time I think about quoting you.

[Witch_Doctor]

Riley was being detained when Michael was reading Kalani's logbook, but if she read it again later, that is all on her.

I thought the same when Tardust first mentioned Kalani, then Riley said that read all the journals.

[Osiris]

Way too much Breaking Bad up in here.

[Gooer]

I honestly wonder this every single time I think about quoting you.

Then do me a favour and don't quote me again.

[Osiris]

Then do me a favour and don't quote me again.

Likewise.

[Witch_Doctor]

Yes, but I had no problem with him frakking up: he ran a marathon, got his leg almost chopped and got drunk all within 12 hours. The problem for me is why would Riley even ask that? Isn't it obvious? Lizzy was with them for months. It took me out of the listening for a few seconds.

Yeah, Tardust's fumble is believable, but Riley jumping to that conclusion? Well, let's just say that I know that some genders (by some, I mean one) have a talent for zeroing in on the most unlikely, yet most undesired explanation amongst a host of possible explanations.
"Which dress do you like better, the red or the blue?"
"The red looks great"
"Why do you HATE blue dress?"
But remember, Riley did zero in on the CJ loves Saul scenario as why he was being sent to Dunbar.

[Witch_Doctor]

2. Have the zombies gained some sort of Immunity to the gas now? The first time we encounter GZ, no zombies were there, and it appeared they could not enter. Then the 2nd encounter, we see a normal and a crazy/mutated Little one there too. While the gas returns, it seems the Little one is not effected. Then the 3rd "kind of encounter but not really" at the end of this chapter shows the zombies going through it as they please. Have they evolved to use it as a defense, or what?

I still can't help but thinking about what Kalani says about Ground Zero. CJ's convoys encountered strange creatures there. He then lists the specials ones. Now it seems that Ink may be manufacturing the gas; possibly for his experiments.

It's almost like Ink's special creations are made with gas as opposed to bites. This adds legs to him foreseeing the outbreak, possibly building a tolerance to the gas over time.

[Witch_Doctor]

Well, seems MVS found the missing dirt..... seems the repellent is still working.


That's right! They're hiding the dirt inside of houses and buildings. That explains why there was a zombie coming out of an (apartment building?) last episode. I kept thinking, "Do zombies live inside houses now?"

[Witch_Doctor]

A little confused at first on what Tanya meant by being exposed to the gas, little by little over a long period of time. Was she speculating that it was dangerous when she mentioned Col. Kemmit? Or was she speculating that it builds immunity like her and Saul?

KC, I know you're in California but if you pull out a homeopathic zombie cure... well, that won't really take away from the story being the most awesome (But I'll still be cross with you :squint:)

Maybe Saul can bite Randy and turn him back into a human, because he's ZOMBIE MAN!!

Zombie Man, Zombie Man
Does everything that a Zombie can
"Will he turn?" Listen bud,
He's got homeopathic Zombie Blood
Look out, here come the Zombie Mannnnn!!!

[TacticalJHP]

Put yourself in police handcuffs (not novelty handcuffs) and shoot video of this. I'd love to watch you do it. Not somebody else. You. Only you.

You will call BS on the video, call them fake cuffs, say I cheated, or point out the fact I have done this many times before.

No, i'm not indulging you. You can search YouTube or Google for yourself of this exact thing.

[Osiris]

You will call BS on the video, call them fake cuffs, say I cheated, or point out the fact I have done this many times before.

No, i'm not indulging you. You can search YouTube or Google for yourself of this exact thing.

That's your move? Not to bother? You certainly shut my mouth there.

[Litmaster]

I call bullshit on the chemist picking the lock with a chunk of metal. Never gonna happen.

Well, I call bullshit on the fact that Riley suddenly pieced together that Tardust tried to rape Lizzy in the furniture store back then. That was one of those hanging plot points I would have been happy to leave unresolved...


So the Riley/Scratch parallel is complete, and it's all white whales and tears of regret. Riley will not kill Scratch. Burt will not see the end. Michael will put an end to Scratch after she kills Pegs. The baby lives in the woods with Saul, Victor, and Kelly.

The End.


Nah. Burt takes out Scratch... :nik:

[Osiris]

Well, I call bullshit on the fact that Riley suddenly pieced together that Tardust tried to rape Lizzy in the furniture store back then. That was one of those hanging plot points I would have been happy to leave unresolved...

Nah. Burt takes out Scratch... :nik:

What are you saying? Are you trying to say that it's bad storytelling? It must be perfectly plausible. Everything else is perfectly plausible. I could have pieced it together with less information. Hell, even a match stick covered in bird shit near a waterpark would have been enough for me to know he was the one.

You see my point. No?

[MrRedBeard]

WAFancast Live Show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6AKczbj79s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6AKczbj79s)

[DagnyTag]

You certainly shut my mouth there.
If only that was possible....

[Osiris]

If only that was possible....

:rolleyes:

[clem131]

i still can't commit to the extreme of saying she's "turned to the dark side."
made a rash, emotional decision? yes.
jeopardize the rest of the group by doing so? not really, i think...

there's so many stinkin' gray areas in WA, and given the two-folded news she had just received, i'm not condemning her actions completely.

Tardust saw the end of his life and chose to be an a-hole.

This episode was great at pointing out the parallel obsession of Scratch and B&R. I wonder if Scratch didn't cry the first time she killed someone. Riley didn't kill Tar because of what he tried to do to Lizzy, in my opinion, she did it because he spelled it out for her: you're obsessed over the loss of a loved one and you would do anything to get your revenge, including torture and cold blood murder. You are becoming the french Scratch. I do not see redemption for her.

[qreepii]

TLDR

Burt can survive months of torture but not a direct question from Riley
Riley completes her journey to the dark side
Randy is still messin up Michael's Plans
Saul is still terrible at everything

[Gooer]

I still can't help but thinking about what Kalani says about Ground Zero. CJ's convoys encountered strange creatures there. He then lists the specials ones. Now it seems that Ink may be manufacturing the gas; possibly for his experiments.

It's almost like Ink's special creations are made with gas as opposed to bites. This adds legs to him foreseeing the outbreak, possibly building a tolerance to the gas over time.

Maybe he is creating new zombies with the chemicals, inside of gas-infected areas, to build a resistance to the gas, and to use the different areas as multiple defensive spots? Or, he is using the chemicals, along with the infection the gas causes, to have the same effect?

[Gooer]

TLDR

Burt can survive months of torture but not a direct question from Riley
Riley completes her journey to the dark side
Randy is still messin up Michael's Plans
Saul is still terrible at everything

Scratch should of brought Riley in to torture Burt. They would of had Pegs' location out of Burt in no time

[EatMyShorts]

So the zombies have been gathering their dead to harvest the "zombie gas" then? Shouldn't there have been gas at the arena?

[Alizée]

This episode emotionally broke me
W h a t h a v e y o u d o n e
3149

[Grognaurd]

So the zombies have been gathering their dead to harvest the "zombie gas" then? Shouldn't there have been gas at the arena?

They did bring their dead to the arena, but I think they were kept outside. I think Riley and Angel find them and we hear flies and Riley says so they put their dead in one big lump. The bodies found inside the arena may have been normals used for food.

It is interesting to note that Cindy, Angels girlfriend, may not have been found by the biters. Maybe she was, but I do not think Angel/Riley/Datu/Michael dug to see if the body was missing. They probably just saw disturbed earth at the grave. To be crude, maybe she popped releasing the gas.

[LiamKerrington]

Mh.

I take the alcohol as a (bad) excuse for anyone in this scene fucking up big time. Tardust - dead, OK. That's that. Riley's got something else on her plate to chew on. Either she does not care at all, or she will understand that she just killed another human being - no matter, how bad or evil this dude was. Anyway. I think there are different opinions about it, but there is no way to resolve this. What I just wonder is: Why, Riley? Why did you do this? Looking back at the complete WA story you actually never really connected with anyone so tight. The tightest possible thing, maybe, was with Burt, when you and he joined for the retaliation-run against Scratch (for what reason again?) instead of simply trying to survive in this God forsaken piece of land ...

Yeah, well. You could say that she felt like "close" with Angel, because in season #1 Angel and Riley had their personal adventure while attempting to rescue R2Da2. And yes, you could say, that Riley felt responsible for some part of the Lizzy-story-arc. But I do not recall that she cared about those things for much longer than at the time, when things happened. Afterwards she was just a human wreck complaining about shit, when she was not drunk actually.

Just my2c about this part. And I really thought for quite a while that Riley would belong to those people doing the difference - especially with her empathy and her social skills she especially showed during better parts of season #1. Well, that was that.

[LiamKerrington]

As for Saul and Randy's bite: Saul seemed to immune against the z-agent or z-factor from the jumper (or maybe his hybrid-incident even earlier). Is his Zombie-Immunity so strong that his body could fend off z-agents from different types of zombies as well? Any time we witnessed infection, incubation, and transmutation the newly infected turned to become a zombie of the type which bit the victim; and this points towards the strong likelhyhood that there are different z-agents around. So I wonder: is the z-agent in a Smart One like Randy the same z-agent like within a regular? And would this have a different effect on Saul?
Just sayin' that I am not as certain as others here that Saul is safe from becoming a zeeh ...

[Robzombie]

My own take on it is that I'm no longer concerned or worried about Saul becomming a zombie. I entirely believe that he has a strong immunity to it and at worst would be a slow turner, like he has been, until his blood clears up lika Tonya has. I dont think he can be re-infected and now has developed a full immunity to it. I'm more concerned with any physical attack, like being torn apart. He was bittin in the neck, but we don't know how bad. Michael and Victor can't follow after him, but do we only find peices of him later?


Edit: Or is he going to be used as bait?

[Osiris]

http://i.imgur.com/0sDnmP1.jpg

[LiamKerrington]

That's why you beat it.

[Osiris]

I do love circles. They're so much fun. I also have no qualms with passing out some quiet time to individuals who ask for it. There's a point at which things go beyond the point of conversation (be it heated) and turn to personal attacks. That's the point at which suspensions will be handed out. Let's ALL keep that in mind.

And no, I don't discount myself in that.

[UndeadSweeper]

As for Saul and Randy's bite: Saul seemed to immune against the z-agent or z-factor from the jumper (or maybe his hybrid-incident even earlier). Is his Zombie-Immunity so strong that his body could fend off z-agents from different types of zombies as well? Any time we witnessed infection, incubation, and transmutation the newly infected turned to become a zombie of the type which bit the victim; and this points towards the strong likelhyhood that there are different z-agents around. So I wonder: is the z-agent in a Smart One like Randy the same z-agent like within a regular? And would this have a different effect on Saul?
Just sayin' that I am not as certain as others here that Saul is safe from becoming a zeeh ...

Not worry about him turning, more worry that we will die from the wound. No one is immune to bleeding to death.

[Kc]

One thing I'll throw out there before I venture back into the dark- Riley also dealt with some serious anger issues while at Fort Irwin as well, to the point she was medicated. There's been a history of issues... just to add to the pile.

[Witch_Doctor]

So the zombies have been gathering their dead to harvest the "zombie gas" then? Shouldn't there have been gas at the arena?

Given enough time for them to decompose. The bodies at the arena would have been there for, at most, up to two months. The ones Tanya had could have been dead from anytime since the beginning of the outbreak to the four months that she has had her mortuary laboratory.

[Gooer]

One thing I'll throw out there before I venture back into the dark- Riley also dealt with some serious anger issues while at Fort Irwin as well, to the point she was medicated. There's been a history of issues... just to add to the pile.

Think that's been forgotten about. Thanks Kc.

Think with all these problems, the "tower" of her mental state might be collapsing soon....

[Witch_Doctor]

Looks like another Witch Doctor prediction bites the dust. Tardust, that is. So he's not going to help analyze the Z-gas. But he did live long enough to tell Burt the secrets of making biodiesel fuel.Hummer:)

Now for another prediction: There doesn't seem to be a rescue to a civilized safe haven in the future. Now that they can make fuel Burt's firetruck o' death, this story may end with a reboot for humanity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63_lcQUdxxE

Now, if they can only get Lady to talk.

[Witch_Doctor]

Getting the zombies to dig holes and follow other instructions seems like it would more trouble than it's worth. I wonder if the remaining zombies are all Smart Ones.

[LiamKerrington]

One thing I'll throw out there before I venture back into the dark- Riley also dealt with some serious anger issues while at Fort Irwin as well, to the point she was medicated. There's been a history of issues... just to add to the pile.

Think that's been forgotten about. Thanks Kc.

Think with all these problems, the "tower" of her mental state might be collapsing soon....

Which in returns means: Having the stain of blood on her hand for having killed a defenseless and already guy this may add another burden on her shoulders, unless she will stick to the idea that she has shot him with justification. I wonder where this will lead to. And I also wonder how Burt will consider Riley in the future.

[pmchawk]

Scratch will be the only person to survive with Nicholas.

[clem131]

Not worry about him turn, more worry that we will dead from the wound. No one is immune to bleeding to death.

He was dragged away in a tunnel where no one can enter due to the gas, so I think he will survive, otherwise that part of the story would be lost.

[Grognaurd]

One thing I'll throw out there before I venture back into the dark- Riley also dealt with some serious anger issues while at Fort Irwin as well, to the point she was medicated. There's been a history of issues... just to add to the pile.

Yup, to quote Puck She did it to herself. He then council's Michael to not stick his neck out for her. Sure, the cruelty to Lizzy pisses Riley off, but she does not pull the trigger until Angel was brought up and Her entire existence is avenging Angel.

[Verse]

Mh.

I take the alcohol as a (bad) excuse for anyone in this scene fucking up big time. Tardust - dead, OK. That's that. Riley's got something else on her plate to chew on. Either she does not care at all, or she will understand that she just killed another human being - no matter, how bad or evil this dude was. Anyway. I think there are different opinions about it, but there is no way to resolve this. What I just wonder is: Why, Riley? Why did you do this? Looking back at the complete WA story you actually never really connected with anyone so tight. The tightest possible thing, maybe, was with Burt, when you and he joined for the retaliation-run against Scratch (for what reason again?) instead of simply trying to survive in this God forsaken piece of land ...

Yeah, well. You could say that she felt like "close" with Angel, because in season #1 Angel and Riley had their personal adventure while attempting to rescue R2Da2. And yes, you could say, that Riley felt responsible for some part of the Lizzy-story-arc. But I do not recall that she cared about those things for much longer than at the time, when things happened. Afterwards she was just a human wreck complaining about shit, when she was not drunk actually.

Just my2c about this part. And I really thought for quite a while that Riley would belong to those people doing the difference - especially with her empathy and her social skills she especially showed during better parts of season #1. Well, that was that.

I have long thought there is more to Riley than we know. Mainly due to how the story is written. She doesn't put much of her personal stuff into the Journals. Much like Michael for the most part. Saul, Pegs, Lizzy, they all tell you how they feel. They tell you who they hang out with. Riley never did that with her Journals. It is all "Just the facts Ma'am" with her stuff. So we have seen very little of the inner working of her mind. She went to the Hospital prior to the Kulani, Burt, Her, and Angel trip and she never mentioned it before they go there. Just a "Eh. It was thick and we didn't get far". She has been mentally unstable from the beginning. If you remember she was getting drunk within the first few chapters. They made a passing comment about it really early. I think it was when when Kelly fell asleep. Maybe sooner. Angel said she was messed up and Riley said "I should be ok".

Add to her anger issues like KC said, with her need to 'do something'. She went to the Hospital twice, volunteered for everything, ect. She HAS to being doing something. She doesn't want to be a colonist. Even in the Military she didn't want to be behind the walls. She wanted to see action. One would think after LA she would be ok with being safe. Nope. Hated cooking and wanted to shoot stuff. I think the getting nowhere with Scratch was wearing on her. She was spinning tires. Tardust just pushed an emotionally unstable woman.

[Vlarken]

One thing I'll throw out there before I venture back into the dark- Riley also dealt with some serious anger issues while at Fort Irwin as well, to the point she was medicated. There's been a history of issues... just to add to the pile.

Definitely true. My issue with this scene was not Riley's behavior. She's been all I WANT TO FIGHT! RAGE! YOU KILLED THE GUY I LIKED TO HAVE AROUND ME AS AN EGO BOOST WHILE I MOONED AFTER LIZZY, RAHHH! ever since Angel's death, and I found her killing Tardust in that tragedy induced rage completely believable. My issue was that I couldn't see Tardust egging her on like that, even if he was drunk and despairing about his chances of escaping the situation. Tardust was cowardly and intelligent, and those two things I think would make him fight for his life more, rather than opt for a clean death. The way he acted just seemed, to me, completely out of character.

And there is also the fact that the torture they put him through is nothing compared to what Scratch has done to people, so I can't see him viewing Riley and Burt as the same as Scratch. They made him run behind a car until he fell down... Scratch cut off Burt's finger; Scratch cut open a guy's face with her knife, and would have kept torturing him to death had her brother not put him down; and then there's all the stuff she's done that we've just heard about.

I'm also in the camp of people who don't buy Riley's quick jump to realizing that Tardust was the one in the furniture store. If she had heard Lizzy's audiolog from when Lizzy was held captive by the Mallers, then yes, that would make sense. But I think she would have recognized him immediately then, having remembered his name and distinct voice from the audiolog. I feel weird saying all this stuff, because this is pretty much the first time I've taken issue with character actions and motivations in this show, but for this part I feel like I have to. All in all, these things besides, I've had about enough of Riley. I was coming to quite like Tardust, and I think her killing of him was completely unjustified.

[Osiris]

:hsugh:

[FenixArc]

It's interesting that Tanya seems to be saying she is immune in spite of being exposed so many times. Could she not be immune for that very reason?

[DaTank]

didn't see that coming

[Kc]

I'm also in the camp of people who don't buy Riley's quick jump to realizing that Tardust was the one in the furniture store. If she had heard Lizzy's audiolog from when Lizzy was held captive by the Mallers, then yes, that would make sense. But I think she would have recognized him immediately then, having remembered his name and distinct voice from the audiolog. I feel weird saying all this stuff, because this is pretty much the first time I've taken issue with character actions and motivations in this show, but for this part I feel like I have to. All in all, these things besides, I've had about enough of Riley. I was coming to quite like Tardust, and I think her killing of him was completely unjustified.

Just to clarify, Riley didn't hear the audio log. She only heard part of the events from Lizzy, or what she was told. The only person who heard the audio log, that we know of, is Saul.

I'm a little surprised that some listeners have a problem with Riley making a connection between the attempted rape and it being Tardust, but it's a fair criticism. My intention was that Riley was able to see from Tardusts' reaction that there was something else in his head when he mentions "Lizzy", and figures it out from there and sees past the lies.

[Hoff4D]

Just to clarify, Riley didn't hear the audio log. She only heard part of the events from Lizzy, or what she was told. The only person who heard the audio log, that we know of, is Saul.

I'm a little surprised that some listeners have a problem with Riley making a connection between the attempted rape and it being Tardust, but it's a fair criticism. My intention was that Riley was able to see from Tardusts' reaction that there was something else in his head when he mentions "Lizzy", and figures it out from there and sees past the lies.

I dont think it was a huge leap. She asked how he knew Lizzy, and 'files' on everyone didnt seem to add up. she knew about the furniture store and was, I believe, fully justified in the execution. She basically gave Tardust his last few seconds to come clean. At this point, he had to know she wasnt screwing around anymore, this wasn't torture for information, this was "Show your true colors" and was dealt with accordingly. Some leaps are made here in how QUICK Riley put all this together, yes, but we are dealing with a show here. The few days that she might have spent in REALITY thinking about who tardust could be in contrast to Lizzy was summed up in a few moments for the sake of the audience (In my opinion)

[Hoff4D]

So, uh, Sauls ok, right?....right guys?................right?


That is about all I have to say in complete summation of this episode

[Eviebae]

Just to clarify, Riley didn't hear the audio log. She only heard part of the events from Lizzy, or what she was told. The only person who heard the audio log, that we know of, is Saul.

I'm a little surprised that some listeners have a problem with Riley making a connection between the attempted rape and it being Tardust, but it's a fair criticism. My intention was that Riley was able to see from Tardusts' reaction that there was something else in his head when he mentions "Lizzy", and figures it out from there and sees past the lies.

Just from curiosity, if you were to change the scene to be clearer to more people would you do it verbally or by description? I mean, would you have the characters describe what was going on or use different sounds or words? What would have the most impactful change?

[Gooer]

So, uh, Sauls ok, right?....right guys?................right?


That is about all I have to say in complete summation of this episode

Yea, he's fine. Just gone to have tea with Ink, Randy and their other pals........

NO HE ISN'T FINE AT ALL *cries self to sleep*

[Hoff4D]

Well, Lady can track. Does Tanya enter the tunnels to get her son put of this prison, unlike the last time when she moved without telling him? SCUBA gear again? Wild cards, Kelly and Hope are unknowns when it comes to the gas. Hope has the additional advantage of being used to walking in the Dark.

:tinfoil:
Hope and Lady the two characters who appear to be the most useless rescue Saul???
This speculation right here, this is why I keep coming back.

[Hoff4D]

Well...So THAT happened...

Okay so this episode had three acts to it, so I'll take them one at a time:

Act 1: Pegs and Tanya
So it does seem like the zombies have been around before and created pockets of z-gas underground. Or at least Tanya thinks so. Not much new here, just nice to know we are starting to get on the right track with all this theorizing.

Act 2: Exit Tardust
Well...damn. So it was starting to look like maybe Riley and Burt might pull out of this vengeance cycle and start to return to a bit to sanity but then Burt get the reveal about Lizzy dying dragged out of him, setting things on edge, then Tardust decides to grab the Idiot Ball and run with it. Seriously I always figured Tardust to be a little more thoughtful and deliberate than that. But no, he just had to go and open his mouth....
I can't say Tardust will be missed by any stretch of the imagination, but now Riley and Burt have reached the point of no return. Either this will wake them up and force them to see that their obsession with revenge will be their undoing and give it up, or they'll continue on and it will end up being their undoing.

Act 3: Randy, Saul and the Tunnel 'o Love
Soo...looks like we're gonna get a definitive answer on the whole "Are Saul and Tanya immune?" question, at least for Saul. My guess is Saul's not gonna be effected by the bite and Michael and Vic are gonna end mounting a rescue party. I mean, how else are we gonna get to explore the dark labyrinthine tunnels of zombie horror and intrigue? Who goes on the mission and how do they deal with the gas? I don't know. But I do know that my whole "Release the gas, kill the zombies" theory just pretty much got shot to hell. That hole was belching out gas like crazy and Randy didn't seem to mind one bit.
So I guess I should move on to my next :tinfoil: theory: The zombies are using the haze to terraform the earth. Someone else brought up the Doctor Who Episode "Blink" so I'll keep the theme alive by bringing up "The Sontaran Stratagem/The Poison Sky." Using poison gas to create a new environment for another species to live in. I'm not saying the zombies are alien (although at this point I won't discount anything) but maybe just something primordial that is trying to reclaim the earth and the release of the zombie gas will help them do so by eliminating any threats to their place as the dominant species.

P.S.
The line of the episode: "She'll hug you one day and slit your throat the next. Literally! That actually happened once!"

:tinfoil: So...the scent wore off, but Saul smelled different (Or Randy just has different sensory perception than the normal ones, I mean we've already counted him as different in some capacity) and maybe Randy knew, at some level, that biting Saul wouldn't be your run of the mill change. Maybe saul's "Immunity" we've discussed at length isn't necessarily an immunity. Maybe he becomes something different. We know Randy changed into something different, maybe Saul maintains even MORE of his previous consciousness. Randy bites Saul knowing he can save him from this hell he's trapped in. Randy HAS to do things for Ink, things that may include turning others, but Randy knows turning Saul might create a super human, not super zed. Saul comes barreling out of the tunnels holding ink by the back of his neck swatting aside any normals that dare combat him. Plops ol Inky-poo on the operation table and lets momma get after him with her devices, cure the world, everything back to normal. The end.

[Grognaurd]

This speculation right here, this is why I keep coming back.

Thanks, lol, with me around you get two stories. The goodstuff KC writes and the you can smell the crazy on grog's Bizzaro-We're Alive. You do not follow me down the rabbit hole, I go straight to Prarie Dog City where through the looking glass becomes a kaleidoscope. :tinfoil:

[Hoff4D]

I still can't help but thinking about what Kalani says about Ground Zero. CJ's convoys encountered strange creatures there. He then lists the specials ones. Now it seems that Ink may be manufacturing the gas; possibly for his experiments.

It's almost like Ink's special creations are made with gas as opposed to bites. This adds legs to him foreseeing the outbreak, possibly building a tolerance to the gas over time.

Haven't finish all the comments yet, but going back to season 1, all the bodies of the fallen were taken back (we assume to the arena)...and we saw piles of bodies (some of us saw them closer then others, angel/riley). Putting that together with knowing that there were different areas for different creatures (Arena for Inklings, the Psych ward or whatever it was for Behemoths) we might just be sorting the dead bodies, waiting for decay/gas and be breeding/spreading the different types as seen fit.

So not only is Ink injecting people to create new types, he's proliferating them through the decaying bodies of the lost ones. An endless army, no?

So primordial Haze = normals, Ink steps in makes smart one, jumping ones...etc, spreads the bodies around and repopulates with the species. Perhaps why he did different expirements at different locations, keep the kinds from intermingling when decaying. Not like Skittles thinks and they're 'bad together', they're just literally told to stay separate.

The only question to me is how Ink came to be. How did he know about the gas? Did he discover it and setup it's 'release' date, did he read some ancient texts about judgement day and used these signs to secure his rise to the top of the new top of the food pyramid? I've supported the jurassic era haze for a long time (see signature) I just wanna know how!

[Jannit]

I've skimmed the pages to try and catch up but, as always, sorry if I'm double posting something that's been said.


The Gas...

CJ said that one person from her tower was exposed to the gas at ground zero and then exhibited changes similar enough to the biters that she shot him. We have already seen multiple exposures to Victor and Pegs as well as Tanya and Saul. I sure hope Michael got a small exposure when rescuing Lizzy in Chapter 2 and has built some antibodies to resist the gas and does not go the way as CJ's person.

If Saul, Michael and a few others go over to Ink's side, who will you route for? Maybe a question of the week for WAFancast?

I like this. By this logic it’s okay for CJ to shoot Pegs.


I still can't help but thinking about what Kalani says about Ground Zero. CJ's convoys encountered strange creatures there. He then lists the specials ones. Now it seems that Ink may be manufacturing the gas; possibly for his experiments.

It's almost like Ink's special creations are made with gas as opposed to bites. This adds legs to him foreseeing the outbreak, possibly building a tolerance to the gas over time.

Or he just has a natural tolerance like Tanya and Saul. I’m very interested to see how Saul changes for this point. It could answer a lot of questions about Ink.


Looks like another Witch Doctor prediction bites the dust. Tardust, that is. So he's not going to help analyze the Z-gas. But he did live long enough to tell Burt the secrets of making biodiesel fuel.Hummer:)

Now for another prediction: There doesn't seem to be a rescue to a civilized safe haven in the future. Now that they can make fuel Burt's firetruck o' death, this story may end with a reboot for humanity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63_lcQUdxxE

Now, if they can only get Lady to talk.

Or this is the same thing that happened to the dinosaurs and humans all just die off. Hundreds of thousands of years later the next superior species asks the same question: What happened to the Humans?


I have long thought there is more to Riley than we know. Mainly due to how the story is written. She doesn't put much of her personal stuff into the Journals. Much like Michael for the most part. Saul, Pegs, Lizzy, they all tell you how they feel. They tell you who they hang out with. Riley never did that with her Journals. It is all "Just the facts Ma'am" with her stuff. So we have seen very little of the inner working of her mind. She went to the Hospital prior to the Kulani, Burt, Her, and Angel trip and she never mentioned it before they go there. Just a "Eh. It was thick and we didn't get far". She has been mentally unstable from the beginning. If you remember she was getting drunk within the first few chapters. They made a passing comment about it really early. I think it was when when Kelly fell asleep. Maybe sooner. Angel said she was messed up and Riley said "I should be ok".

Add to her anger issues like KC said, with her need to 'do something'. She went to the Hospital twice, volunteered for everything, ect. She HAS to being doing something. She doesn't want to be a colonist. Even in the Military she didn't want to be behind the walls. She wanted to see action. One would think after LA she would be ok with being safe. Nope. Hated cooking and wanted to shoot stuff. I think the getting nowhere with Scratch was wearing on her. She was spinning tires. Tardust just pushed an emotionally unstable woman.

Your post made me wonder something and pardon the :tinfoil:. If she has all of these psychological problems, it’s possible that Riley could have spent time in the mental institute prior to when the SHTF. For all we know she was released the day before and was BFF’s with Ink prior to the crazy. I know it’s doubtful and very unlikely but it’s still possible… maybe.


It's interesting that Tanya seems to be saying she is immune in spite of being exposed so many times. Could she not be immune for that very reason?

That’s a good point. The only issue I see with it is we never see the build-up of the immunity. My memory truly sucks at times but I can’t recall her ever getting even a little sick which might have indicated her body slowly building up a resistance.

[Kc]

:tinfoil: So...the scent wore off, but Saul smelled different (Or Randy just has different sensory perception than the normal ones, I mean we've already counted him as different in some capacity) and maybe Randy knew, at some level, that biting Saul wouldn't be your run of the mill change. Maybe saul's "Immunity" we've discussed at length isn't necessarily an immunity. Maybe he becomes something different. We know Randy changed into something different, maybe Saul maintains even MORE of his previous consciousness. Randy bites Saul knowing he can save him from this hell he's trapped in. Randy HAS to do things for Ink, things that may include turning others, but Randy knows turning Saul might create a super human, not super zed. Saul comes barreling out of the tunnels holding ink by the back of his neck swatting aside any normals that dare combat him. Plops ol Inky-poo on the operation table and lets momma get after him with her devices, cure the world, everything back to normal. The end.

There was a reason Skittles avoided "the brains"... they could tell he wasn't changed regardless of anything else. You could consider Randy a "brain" if you like.


Just from curiosity, if you were to change the scene to be clearer to more people would you do it verbally or by description? I mean, would you have the characters describe what was going on or use different sounds or words? What would have the most impactful change?

I could have included Tardust trying to make up more excuses about him living at the colony and knew who she was, but ultimately would have just made the scene longer. Riley was already seeing through his bullshit the second he mentioned Lizzy.

[Grognaurd]

Riley was already seeing through his bullshit the second he mentioned Lizzy.

We should not forget how well Riley can read people. This is established as far back as Chapter 1, but the way the story has progressed, she has not had many opportunities to demonstrate it.

Zoinks, anyone got a shovel, I can feel it changing me...

[Osiris]

I could have included Tardust trying to make up more excuses about him living at the colony and knew who she was, but ultimately would have just made the scene longer. Riley was already seeing through his bullshit the second he mentioned Lizzy.

This show is filled with murderous fucks.

[Witch_Doctor]

There was a reason Skittles avoided "the brains"... they could tell he wasn't changed regardless of anything else. You could consider Randy a "brain" if you like.



Skittles says of the Brains, '...Those are the worst, I can't get away from them or hide." Chapter 17 Part 3
I just woke from a nap to write this and found that KC beat me to it.

[Eviebae]

I could have included Tardust trying to make up more excuses about him living at the colony and knew who she was, but ultimately would have just made the scene longer. Riley was already seeing through his bullshit the second he mentioned Lizzy.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant, if you approach making a scene clearer, is it more effective to use dialog or description? Maybe it differs according to content? Just wanted you to muse.

I read/watch a lot of Sci Fi and really appreciate creative exposition. I get so frakin' tired of paragraphs of history lectures but I've noticed that if a lot of readers seem unhappy without it. I tried to watch a CSI and after 10 minutes of professionals explaining elementary procedures to one another in a lecturing tone I was done.

[Ginja]

Yup, to quote Puck She did it to herself. He then council's Michael to not stick his neck out for her. Sure, the cruelty to Lizzy pisses Riley off, but she does not pull the trigger until Angel was brought up and Her entire existence is avenging Angel.

I actually thought her breaking point was being compared to Scratch. His saying that Angel and all of them were so stubborn it fueled Scratch's need for revenge implied (to me) that their being stubborn in their insistence that he was lying fueled them. That's why I thought she exploded...I mean aside from her drunken and emotionally fragile state of being.

I have been thinking that maybe it isn't Skittles' scent that makes him immune. I am wondering if he had some agreement with Ink. Not because he survived the attack on Dunbar but I can't shake the thought that if he was the one who let Ink in, how did Ink just pass him by? He would have been the likely first dead no? So maybe he had a deal with him somehow and to keep his part of the bargain, he stayed away in hiding. Or maybe Ink gave him some drug that made him secrete the scent that made the others leave him alone. Randy being one of the smart ones, would recognize that Saul and Michael were not Skittles even though they smelled like him and went in for the attack anyway. Just a thought. I love Skittles but I don't think he's entirely innocent. Especially when I think of his certainty that Ink would find him and kill him if he helped CJ and Michael. Yeah. I think he's sort of in on it.

About the rest....I already predicted that Vic and Kelly would have to raise the baby but I got some new clues from earlier in the chapter that changed my outlook:

1. Saul asking CJ to keep his son safe....sounds to me like Vic (who he asked before) won't make it through leaving the baby to CJ which would be really weird.

2. Pegs joking about Lady only listening to Saul tells me that Lady will play a part in trying to rescue him from the tunnels and the others won't be able to stop her. She might succeed but will more likely die trying to save Saul.

3. If Lady doesn't go off after Saul, that clue fairly screamed to me that Lady will somehow be involved in the final final battle. Probably Hope too since she is the one that keeps her.

[TacticalJHP]

Thanks, lol, with me around you get two stories. The goodstuff KC writes and the you can smell the crazy on grog's Bizzaro-We're Alive. You do not follow me down the rabbit hole, I go straight to Prarie Dog City where through the looking glass becomes a kaleidoscope. :tinfoil:

This post makes my head hurt

[madmungo]

!! Wouldn't it be funny if they hit Ink with the attract bottle.

Wow, i so want that to happen!!! :-)

[Hoff4D]

There was a reason Skittles avoided "the brains"... they could tell he wasn't changed regardless of anything else. You could consider Randy a "brain" if you like.


I kinda figured as much, but had to throw on the tinfoil hat to cope with the idea that Saul has been captured by Randy in a place no one else (save Tanya) can go, as far as we know right now. But thanks for the confirmation!

[Jannit]

I actually thought her breaking point was being compared to Scratch. His saying that Angel and all of them were so stubborn it fueled Scratch's need for revenge implied (to me) that their being stubborn in their insistence that he was lying fueled them. That's why I thought she exploded...I mean aside from her drunken and emotionally fragile state of being.

I have been thinking that maybe it isn't Skittles' scent that makes him immune. I am wondering if he had some agreement with Ink. Not because he survived the attack on Dunbar but I can't shake the thought that if he was the one who let Ink in, how did Ink just pass him by? He would have been the likely first dead no? So maybe he had a deal with him somehow and to keep his part of the bargain, he stayed away in hiding. Or maybe Ink gave him some drug that made him secrete the scent that made the others leave him alone. Randy being one of the smart ones, would recognize that Saul and Michael were not Skittles even though they smelled like him and went in for the attack anyway. Just a thought. I love Skittles but I don't think he's entirely innocent. Especially when I think of his certainty that Ink would find him and kill him if he helped CJ and Michael. Yeah. I think he's sort of in on it.

We haven't seen anything to support the idea that Skittles is immune. Skittles is somewhat invisible to the "normal" zombies but he avoids the smart ones as they can see him, as has been pointed out in the thread. Also, we know Skittles has some blood on his hands given what happened at Dunbar but I personally doubt it's much more than that. No reason to support that at all - it's just a hunch.



About the rest....I already predicted that Vic and Kelly would have to raise the baby but I got some new clues from earlier in the chapter that changed my outlook:

1. Saul asking CJ to keep his son safe....sounds to me like Vic (who he asked before) won't make it through leaving the baby to CJ which would be really weird.

2. Pegs joking about Lady only listening to Saul tells me that Lady will play a part in trying to rescue him from the tunnels and the others won't be able to stop her. She might succeed but will more likely die trying to save Saul.

3. If Lady doesn't go off after Saul, that clue fairly screamed to me that Lady will somehow be involved in the final final battle. Probably Hope too since she is the one that keeps her.

I'd be a little annoyed with the story if Lady went all Lassie on us and went to find Saul. It seems hokey to me. Plus, with all of the times that Lady has been seperated from Saul (when he was in Dunbar and she was in the colony, as an example) Lady never once went looking for Saul. Plus, she has no way to open the doors at Dunbar. :P

[Merlin1274]

2. Pegs joking about Lady only listening to Saul tells me that Lady will play a part in trying to rescue him from the tunnels and the others won't be able to stop her. She might succeed but will more likely die trying to save Saul.

3. If Lady doesn't go off after Saul, that clue fairly screamed to me that Lady will somehow be involved in the final final battle. Probably Hope too since she is the one that keeps her.

I think the bit about Lady only listening to Saul would bring about someone doom. Because Lady would run off Barking or start barking at the wrong time and not listen to anyone and cause some one to get attacked or several of them get attacked..

[Kc]

I have been thinking that maybe it isn't Skittles' scent that makes him immune.

I think it's safe to assume at this point it's smell/pheromone related. There's still questions that remain along that line, like why did Ink spare him-


Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant, if you approach making a scene clearer, is it more effective to use dialog or description? Maybe it differs according to content? Just wanted you to muse.

I read/watch a lot of Sci Fi and really appreciate creative exposition. I get so frakin' tired of paragraphs of history lectures but I've noticed that if a lot of readers seem unhappy without it. I tried to watch a CSI and after 10 minutes of professionals explaining elementary procedures to one another in a lecturing tone I was done.

The fewer VO's or exposition times the better, especially in scenes that are quick and dramatic exchanges. We have enough times of exposition, that seemingly can't be as easily avoided. It's unfortunately part of the whole format of audio drama. There's a fair balance of expose, then explain. It's far easier in books and movies, but we do our best to make those parts interesting.

[LiamKerrington]

I'm a little surprised that some listeners have a problem with Riley making a connection between the attempted rape and it being Tardust, but it's a fair criticism. My intention was that Riley was able to see from Tardusts' reaction that there was something else in his head when he mentions "Lizzy", and figures it out from there and sees past the lies.

As long as people complain, they also care. So I think you should not be surprised, but instead very happy.

Besides: I only complained about a wasted great opportunity for some more and especially interesting character-building and -confrontation with both characters of Riley and Tardust; for me things were kind of blunt and rushed. But that is a matter of personal view; and I also understand that we are closing in for the ending of We're Alive! *sniff*

[Ginja]

We haven't seen anything to support the idea that Skittles is immune.



I shouldn't have said immune, it wasn't what I meant. I understand that he just sort of blends in because of his scent. My line of thought is that there is a reason and that Ink gave him that ability as a part of an exchange.


I think it's safe to assume at this point it's smell/pheromone related. There's still questions that remain along that line, like why did Ink spare him-



That's exactly what I'm getting at. I think there is a definite reason why Ink didn't kill Skittles immediately. I also think that whatever that reason is is why he has gone slightly nutty. Like he saw something (beyond the horror of the Dunbar invasion) or made a bargain because of what he saw that unhinged his brain.

[Osiris]

As long as people complain, they also care. So I think you should not be surprised, but instead very happy.

Besides: I only complained about a wasted great opportunity for some more and especially interesting character-building and -confrontation with both characters of Riley and Tardust; for me things were kind of blunt and rushed. But that is a matter of personal view; and I also understand that we are closing in for the ending of We're Alive! *sniff*

Riley is already very well developed, and her conflict with Burt is far more important to the story than the little moments with Tardust. Was he really important enough to warrant a lengthy, heavy-hand back and forth between him and Riley to get to the important bits? Riley likely would have killed him for whatever reason. She's off the deep end, no? Feels like the right move for the story to push through the parts that don't matter, and get to quicken the pace towards the end.

[LiamKerrington]

Riley is already very well developed, and her conflict with Burt is far more important to the story than the little moments with Tardust. Was he really important enough to warrant a lengthy, heavy-hand back and forth between him and Riley to get to the important bits? Riley likely would have killed him for whatever reason. She's off the deep end, no? Feels like the right move for the story to push through the parts that don't matter, and get to quicken the pace towards the end.

Yes.

[Grognaurd]

We haven't seen anything to support the idea that Skittles is immune. Skittles is somewhat invisible to the "normal" zombies but he avoids the smart ones as they can see him, as has been pointed out in the thread. Also, we know Skittles has some blood on his hands given what happened at Dunbar but I personally doubt it's much more than that. No reason to support that at all - it's just a hunch.




I'd be a little annoyed with the story if Lady went all Lassie on us and went to find Saul. It seems hokey to me. Plus, with all of the times that Lady has been seperated from Saul (when he was in Dunbar and she was in the colony, as an example) Lady never once went looking for Saul. Plus, she has no way to open the doors at Dunbar. :P

All Lassie, most likely not. But, Lady is part beagle. Going back to Season 1, Saul said he was teaching her to track scents, that is what beagles do. Pugs have a bias to not bark too much. Saul says she won't bark much unless he tells her. Of course, this is an audio program so KC has to have her bark to be "seen".

I would not be excited to go to the tunnels. That is really bad news. However, if Saul was seen topside, Lasy could track him. As for Hope, she has felt useless for sometime. She might do something stupid. If the characters are crazy enough to risk everything to go after Saul, a dog that tracks by scent and a person used to being in the dark supplemented with a radio controlled decoy loaded with multiple claymores (or just explosives) each on their own different detonation channels isnt the worse plan... Explosives in the confines of tunnels is bad news for the people caught in the pressure wave.

[Jannit]

All Lassie, most likely not. But, Lady is part beagle. Going back to Season 1, Saul said he was teaching her to track scents, that is what beagles do. Pugs have a bias to not bark too much. Saul says she won't bark much unless he tells her. Of course, this is an audio program so KC has to have her bark to be "seen".

I would not be excited to go to the tunnels. That is really bad news. However, if Saul was seen topside, Lasy could track him. As for Hope, she has felt useless for sometime. She might do something stupid. If the characters are crazy enough to risk everything to go after Saul, a dog that tracks by scent and a person used to being in the dark supplemented with a radio controlled decoy loaded with multiple claymores (or just explosives) each on their own different detonation channels isnt the worse plan... Explosives in the confines of tunnels is bad news for the people caught in the pressure wave.

I'd forgotten what kind of pug cross Lady is. Beagle makes sense for the sniffing, and I don't doubt what you describe could fit into the story. In my humble opinion, it'd just seem kind of Mary Sue-ish to me to have things end that way.

As for pugs not barking much, can you please tell my little man that? He apparently missed the memo and barks at all the things. Even his own farts. To be fair a pug bark isn't as loud or even similar to a normal bark but they're still noisy enough. :nik:

[Grognaurd]

/Growl... Guess I went over to Ink's Team!


<======

Hmmm... OK, I will remove my bias statement and just go with what Saul says. Dogs do have personalities.

If Randy does take Saul down into the tunnels, I do not know how to get him out without going holywood. I figured they were dead before they go to the arena. Flashlights do not illuminate much compared to the distance at which they can be seen.

[Jannit]

]/Growl... Guess I went over to Ink's Team!


<======

Hmmm... OK, I will remove my bias statement and just go with what Saul says. Dogs do have personalities.
If Randy does take Saul down into the tunnels, I do not know how to get him out without going holywood. I figured they were dead before they go to the arena. Flashlights do not illuminate much compared to the distance at which they can be seen.

I'm confused by all of this but I'll agree with you anyways 'cause you seem like a swell kinda guy. :nik:

On Randy taking Saul: Maybe Randy can tell that Saul is immune and isn't actually taking Saul to Ink. Going back to some of the earlier theories about where Randy's loyalties lie, this could be something much different than what it looks like. Plus, I'm not convinced Saul will turn.

Way back when, the Z's were trying to drag off Tanya for some reason or another. Perhaps there's something about them (Tanya and Saul) that the zombies can just sense.

[Grognaurd]

Thanks!

The stuff in blue...

It was my 1500th post. So, I went from "Hunter" to "Destroyer". I got the feeling that the earlier ranks were more human. Gatherer, Hunter, researcher...

Saul told Burt and Lizzy Lady won't bark. I had a bias that pugs did not bark much, you have direct evidence that your's does.

As for the end, I do not know. KC is a good enough writer that I see many possible endings.

[Jannit]

Thanks for the clarification. It's been one of those days today. :britt:

Most pugs probably bark less than normal dogs. I just happened to end up with a "special" little guy so I'm rather biased, too. For Lady to have survived as long as she did alone in the house, she's got to be smarter than the average bear.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Kc finishes things off. I agree 100% that there are a lot of ways this could go but it'll be fun to see how many of our theories end up stacking up.

[Kc]

As things come closer to the end, I think someone will hone in on what's going on... there's just only so much time left. Who's it going to be? ;)

[7oddisdead]

Not posting for a reason

[Jannit]

As things come closer to the end, I think someone will hone in on what's going on... there's just only so much time left. Who's it going to be? ;)

I'm voting for Grog and/or Red Shirt. Those two seem to be the resident savants when it comes to this show.

7odd, didn't Kc tell you the ending when he was drunk one night or something? I don't think I made that up.

[7oddisdead]

MMAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYBBBEE........

I've had my endgame idea in mind for a while now. Its loosely based on an old episode of the outer limits. That's all I'm sayin

at this point I don't want to speculate anymore. I just want to enjoy the ride to the end.

[Grognaurd]

As things come closer to the end, I think someone will hone in on what's going on... there's just only so much time left. Who's it going to be? ;)

My hope is it is something like a toxoplasmosis, because they just found some Spiramycin in the hospital and that can be used to cure it. How it all plays out, I do not know. I know I can mow my yard every week and then almost overnight ten mushrooms show up. Not too much of a stretch to have a science fiction story with a global bloom or a science gone wrong because of hydrolic fracking mastadon kimchi

[Witch_Doctor]

I do not know how to get him out without going holywood. I figured they were dead before they go to the arena. Flashlights do not illuminate much compared to the distance at which they can be seen.

3151

[Witch_Doctor]

As things come closer to the end, I think someone will hone in on what's going on... there's just only so much time left. Who's it going to be? ;)


My bet's on Grog, via his hand grenade-like abductive logical reasoning (One of his theories HAS to hit something).

Personally, I love being wrong all the time.

[7oddisdead]

Fact is, we have all the information we need now to make accurate logical guesses as to what's going on. All we as a forum need to do is put the facts in order..

I'll give y'all one example. What we knew of Randy was he was actually a really good dude in life. After however? Does not seem to be the case. The one thing his undead essence seemed to latch unto is a grudge against Michael. Now....lets parlay that thought in this direction....

what if bill Roberts was actually a GOOD guy? Cleary he most likely had an idea of what was coming. Hence the tattoos...but his tats being "protection" based do not convey malevolent intent. What if he was just trying to save his ass, but instead became an uber-villian via his knowledge before? Take that kind of logic and apply it to the rest of the story, and things start to take shape.

anyways...thats probly the last of the public speculation....have fun kids

[turbo]

Anyone ever seen Speed? Why didn't Michael just shoot Saul in the leg?
Then Vic could get a good chest shot with the .50 cal?! Thinking outside the box :)

Harry: All right, pop quiz. Airport, gunman with one hostage. He's using her for cover; he's almost to a plane. You're a hundred feet away... Jack?
Jack: Shoot the hostage.

[Grognaurd]

I also thought of Shoot the hostage! However, I did not think Randy had enough empathy to leave the wounded Saul, nor did I think he would be encumbered if he had to carry Saul 100%.

[Osiris]

Anyone ever seen Speed? Why didn't Michael just shoot Saul in the leg?
Then Vic could get a good chest shot with the .50 cal?! Thinking outside the box :)

Harry: All right, pop quiz. Airport, gunman with one hostage. He's using her for cover; he's almost to a plane. You're a hundred feet away... Jack?
Jack: Shoot the hostage.

I will never understand why you're so in love with that movie.

[Footbutt]

i think this forum/audio drama has ruined how i watch TV shows and movies.
as i do on the forums, i now constantly talk throughout what i'm watching and try to predict what's going to happen. and it's driving me and my wife nuts!

i'm going to attempt to back off the predictions.
i know i've landed correctly on some but have been waaaay off on many.

[Verse]

I could have included Tardust trying to make up more excuses about him living at the colony and knew who she was, but ultimately would have just made the scene longer. Riley was already seeing through his bullshit the second he mentioned Lizzy.

This settles my biggest issue. This is why I enjoy the forums. Also want to agree with what a few people have said. We pick it apart b/c we love it. I recommend this show to everyone and use every excuse to bring it up.

Cutting down the scene time makes sense. Knowing that, I think it was a good call. We may have not had time to get to the scene with Michael and Co. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Gooer]

As things come closer to the end, I think someone will hone in on what's going on... there's just only so much time left. Who's it going to be? ;)

Probably Grognaurd. He usually has those tinfoil hat idea's that make sense.....

[Elete23]

I think it's funny how previous fiction inspires how you interpret new fiction. I come from the background of being a huge Angel/Buffy fan so I see things through that lens (and yes I said Angel first for a reason, I prefer it over Buffy.)

On that show in order to justify killing countless vampires, it was explained that when a person gets turned they lose their soul, i.e. the ability to feel empathy or guilt. They also get a bit of demon added to them, which imbues them with supernatural power, animal instinct, and bloodlust that makes humans look like food. However, they maintain their basic human mind, just with the loss of a soul. What they were determines what they become, but its always evil because the soul is gone.

I kind of view the zombies in We're Alive the same way, especially the "smart ones" that retain more of their humanity. They may be quite aware of what they're doing and remember their past life, but I don't think they have their "souls" anymore. Randy is evil now, I don't think there's going back for him and I don't think at this point the idea that a zombie can be "redeemed" is viable because it would open up a moral can of worms at this point in the series. Unless Randy is undercover and really Angel, (Buffy's Angel) a vampire with a soul... not likely.

Keeping with the Buffy theme, does Hope remind any other Buffy fans of Dawn?

Finally, I won't touch the big endgame theory but I think that maybe I have something to offer for why Ink spared Skittles. We know Ink has a history of mental illness. So does Skittles, obviously. These things tend to be genetic. Could they be related? Brothers?

[Jannit]

Guys, I just thought of something.

What if Saul and Tanya's resistance to the Z-bug isn't genetic? This has probably already been discussed but just hear me out a second. We have Tanya - a vet - who has likely been exposed to all manner of drugs throughout her career. In addition, she probably needed a fair number of vaccinations in the regular course of her job. Saul was given high doses of some rather hard-core antibiotics.

If we expand this further, some other people we've seen who have been slow turners may also have been exposed to vaccinations and/or antibiotics in large quantities. Datu likely would've had additional vaccinations when he came to America as part of standard procedures. Kalani was a pilot and likely had to have vaccinations as part of his job requirements.

The point I'm getting at is we've seen unusual behavior from zombies in regards to these people. The zombies carried off Datu and attempted to carry off Tanya to the arena. Kalani was at the arena but passed over in favor of Samantha for the "play time" in the middle. Saul exhibits the markers for zombie-ism, as did Datu prior to turning.

Tanya had the markers and didn't even turn!

Is there the possibility that there is a relatively straight forward cure to all of this and it's just high levels of antibiotics or vaccinations of some sort? Perhaps this causes them to smell differently so that they’re distinctive to the zombies. I'd be interested to find out if the other slow turners had any special medication history as well.

[Kc]

Anyone ever seen Speed? Why didn't Michael just shoot Saul in the leg?
Then Vic could get a good chest shot with the .50 cal?! Thinking outside the box :)

Harry: All right, pop quiz. Airport, gunman with one hostage. He's using her for cover; he's almost to a plane. You're a hundred feet away... Jack?
Jack: Shoot the hostage.

Michael had an m-16... if he would have shot Saul in the leg... that would have been very ugly. Handgun 9mm wounds are not the same as 5.56 high velocity rounds... Just hypothetically, he could have bled out, or even lost his leg. It's not a decision made on a whim.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gooer]

Michael had an m-16... if he would have shot Saul in the leg... that would have been very ugly. Handgun 9mm wounds are not the same as 5.56 high velocity rounds... Just hypothetically, he could have bled out, or even lost his leg. It's not a decision made on a whim.

Just my 2 cents.

Yea..... that might not be wanted in the episodes to come.....

[Footbutt]

okay, one more thing:

is Saul the first Ground-Zero breather to be bitten? He's the test, in my book, to see if there is a true immunity. Randy bit him, but it may not necessarily mean Saul turns. Tanya's Keratin levels were normal at the time she could endure the gas in the last episode. So to me, that's a natural response and not her body adapting.

but what we do know, is that Saul is a tought SOB. he will go down swinging.

[Jannit]

okay, one more thing:

is Saul the first Ground-Zero breather to be bitten? He's the test, in my book, to see if there is a true immunity. Randy bit him, but it may not necessarily mean Saul turns. Tanya's Keratin levels were normal at the time she could endure the gas in the last episode. So to me, that's a natural response and not her body adapting.

but what we do know, is that Saul is a tought SOB. he will go down swinging.

Nope. Tanya was the first to be bitten and she was fine.

[TacticalJHP]

Michael had an m-16... if he would have shot Saul in the leg... that would have been very ugly. Handgun 9mm wounds are not the same as 5.56 high velocity rounds... Just hypothetically, he could have bled out, or even lost his leg. It's not a decision made on a whim.

Just my 2 cents.

:nik:

You have enough of a threat from zombies than the threat of friendlies trying to "help" you.

[Grognaurd]

Guys, I just thought of something.

What if Saul and Tanya's resistance to the Z-bug isn't genetic? This has probably already been discussed but just hear me out a second. We have Tanya - a vet - who has likely been exposed to all manner of drugs throughout her career. In addition, she probably needed a fair number of vaccinations in the regular course of her job. Saul was given high doses of some rather hard-core antibiotics.

If we expand this further, some other people we've seen who have been slow turners may also have been exposed to vaccinations and/or antibiotics in large quantities. Datu likely would've had additional vaccinations when he came to America as part of standard procedures. Kalani was a pilot and likely had to have vaccinations as part of his job requirements.

The point I'm getting at is we've seen unusual behavior from zombies in regards to these people. The zombies carried off Datu and attempted to carry off Tanya to the arena. Kalani was at the arena but passed over in favor of Samantha for the "play time" in the middle. Saul exhibits the markers for zombie-ism, as did Datu prior to turning.

Tanya had the markers and didn't even turn!

Is there the possibility that there is a relatively straight forward cure to all of this and it's just high levels of antibiotics or vaccinations of some sort? Perhaps this causes them to smell differently so that they’re distinctive to the zombies. I'd be interested to find out if the other slow turners had any special medication history as well.

Great thinking Janet. I recently considered something similar. Tanya was a vet and Saul worked with her enough when he was Young. Maybe they caught something from the animals that gave them some resistance. I mentioned Toxoplasmosis, some real life scientists have speculated that when some women are infected exhibit a behavior known as the crazy cat lady. Seems like every town has some lady with a huge number of cats. Grog, what does that have to do with anything? Ah, my padawans, fold you :tinfoil: like this...

How many cats does CJ have at Dunbar? For a couple of months she lived alone with a bunch of cats. Sean, said you ( meaning CJ ) might have another breakdown. Putting it all together, crazy cat lady. So, maybe she was already eexposed and Ink can sense this and says "leave her". Going further, when mice become infected, they tend to lose their fear of cats. Chapter25 has the return of a very fat Mr. Whiskers. I have not seen fat feral cats, so Mr Whiskers must have a pretty easy go of it even though he has to fend for himself. One way to explain this is mice ( and possibly other animals ) losing their fear of cats making them easy to catch.

[Jannit]

Great thinking Janet. I recently considered something similar. Tanya was a vet and Saul worked with her enough when he was Young. Maybe they caught something from the animals that gave them some resistance. I mentioned Toxoplasmosis, some real life scientists have speculated that when some women are infected exhibit a behavior known as the crazy cat lady. Seems like every town has some lady with a huge number of cats. Grog, what does that have to do with anything? Ah, my padawans, fold you :tinfoil: like this...

How many cats does CJ have at Dunbar? For a couple of months she lived alone with a bunch of cats. Sean, said you ( meaning CJ ) might have another breakdown. Putting it all together, crazy cat lady. So, maybe she was already eexposed and Ink can sense this and says "leave her". Going further, when mice become infected, they tend to lose their fear of cats. Chapter25 has the return of a very fat Mr. Whiskers. I have not seen fat feral cats, so Mr Whiskers must have a pretty easy go of it even though he has to fend for himself. One way to explain this is mice ( and possibly other animals ) losing their fear of cats making them easy to catch.

This is an interesting thought too.

If there is some sort of cross-species contamination like this Toxoplamosis that drives the zombies off then how does that tie into the other instances where we've seen people ignored by zombies? Primarily Skittles, in our limited availability of examples. Also, why would they still bite Tanya and Saul at all and just leave CJ alone? That part isn't computing and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

So far we've seen the zombies ignore CJ, Skittles and Kalani. To be fair, I'm not sure if Ink's command to "leave her" counts as ignoring CJ but it's better than a kick in the pants. I could cross her off the list.

A little google-fu also mentions that the World Health Organization estimates that up to 1/3 of the population is infected with toxoplamosis at any time. I get that you may be using this one as an example but it seems like that big of a population with the parasite would rule it out in our storyline.

Bleh. It's the end of a long week and I'm not even making much sense to myself so I'll just stop there for the moment. Once I can form proper thoughts again, I'll try to do better.

[Grognaurd]

Well, let's say 1/3 have some immunity or resistance. They still have to run away from the other 2/3s. Whatever the turning is, it has low penetrance. There are no where near 5,000,000 million biters running around LA, unless they all ran somewhere to hide and started digging to get out of sight.

I toss out the toxoplasmosis as an example in real life that infects human and affects behavior. We still have a really small sample size. Three people choke, two do not. The two that do not have genetics, exposure to a recently turned and being a vet. I put Saul in the vet, because I got the feeling He spent a lot of time there.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I am back again as I have fed enough popcorn to berber monkeys in Southern Germany.

I have to apologize as I did not read each and every post in this thread and yet - why has anyone not raised the question what will possibly happen to Randy after he bit Saul. Biting someone is not exactly a one-way street. So, simply put - wha do you think, might the bite backfire at Randy eventually?

[Gooer]

I am back again as I have fed enough popcorn to berber monkeys in Southern Germany.

I have to apologize as I did not read each and every post in this thread and yet - why has anyone not raised the question what will possibly happen to Randy after he bit Saul. Biting someone is not exactly a one-way street. So, simply put - wha do you think, might the bite backfire at Randy eventually?

Hmm....that is interesting. I think no one thought of it in the past because we just assume they are trying to eat. But after Randy just biting them instead of eating, and you saying that..... If Saul was immune, would that mean that his blood would try and reverse the change, or at least slowly burn him inside out, like drinking Hydrofluoric acid?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hmm....that is interesting. I think no one thought of it in the past because we just assume they are trying to eat. But after Randy just biting them instead of eating, and you saying that..... If Saul was immune, would that mean that his blood would try and reverse the change, or at least slowly burn him inside out, like drinking Hydrofluoric acid?

Yeah, just a "what if"-situation. Maybe it sound a bit too Shymalan-ish, it cannot be ruled out, can it?

[Grognaurd]

I am back again as I have fed enough popcorn to berber monkeys in Southern Germany.

I have to apologize as I did not read each and every post in this thread and yet - why has anyone not raised the question what will possibly happen to Randy after he bit Saul. Biting someone is not exactly a one-way street. So, simply put - wha do you think, might the bite backfire at Randy eventually?

Great point!

Even Michael wouldn't eat the chips and dip because they had Saul germs on them. Lol

[Witch_Doctor]

I am back again as I have fed enough popcorn to berber monkeys in Southern Germany.

I have to apologize as I did not read each and every post in this thread and yet - why has anyone not raised the question what will possibly happen to Randy after he bit Saul. Biting someone is not exactly a one-way street. So, simply put - wha do you think, might the bite backfire at Randy eventually?


...
KC, I know you're in California but if you pull out a homeopathic zombie cure... well, that won't really take away from the story being the most awesome (But I'll still be cross with you :squint:)

Maybe Saul can bite Randy and turn him back into a human, because he's ZOMBIE MAN!!

Zombie Man, Zombie Man
Does everything that a Zombie can
"Will he turn?" Listen bud,
He's got homeopathic Zombie Blood
Look out, here come the Zombie Mannnnn!!!


Actually, I said that Randy biting Saul will turn him back on a F.B. but changed it here.

[7oddisdead]

Wnd 64.

watch a movie, folks. Its Saturday

[Witch_Doctor]

Wnd 64.

watch a movie, folks. Its Saturday

:) Ha haaa! I'm binge-watching Breaking Bad, as a matter of fact. Never watched the show before, now I'm hooked. (No pun intended.) Usually don't watch TV or go to the movies but now I see why everyone does it.

[Gnex]

RIP Tardust!

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Actually, I said that Randy biting Saul will turn him back on a F.B. but changed it here.

We are running out of time to find an explanation to the question why Randy as a character is essential to the story. Something like being turned back by Saul is quite likely in my opinion. He has got to be much more than one of Ink's mindless minions at least in the episodes to come.

[Witch_Doctor]

We are running out of time to find an explanation to the question why Randy as a character is essential to the story. Something like being turned back by Saul is quite likely in my opinion. He has got to be much more than one of Ink's mindless minions at least in the episodes to come.

Yeah I agree. Thinking that he might turn back, somewhat, with an idea of what the zombies are doing. Like the hero that descends to hell, suffers, joins the devil and gains redemption in the end.
3152
(http://www.theness.com/index.php/the-hero-myth-transcendence-and-joseph-campbell/)

[Grognaurd]

It is interesting that we now have the gas coming from the tunnel...

Going way back to when ground zero was first encountered by Victor and Pegs, we speculated that it might be an area denial weapon. A defensive measure to keep things away from a valuable facility. When Victor and Saul go back, they do not notice any animals, they see undisturbed dead bodies, even the trees were brown. They also observed blood stains indicating previous violence. CJ later states that one of her explores may have been changed by the gas exposure. @@ On an aside, I still think CJ sabotaged the tanks. She explicitly tells Saul which color tank to use! If there was no difference a priori, why assign a color? @@

We get additional complexity when Victor and Tanya go back the gas is gone and the area is more normal. However, the gas returns shortly after Tanya's gunshot. So, was the localized tremor and gas release just chance coincidence or a defensive measure? Fast forward to the present, the tunnel entrance that Michael, Victor and Datu used is now closed and the tunnel they are at now has gas. So, again, is this a defensive measure or just chance?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Yeah I agree. Thinking that he might turn back, somewhat, with an idea of what the zombies are doing. Like the hero that descends to hell, suffers, joins the devil and gains redemption in the end.
3152
(http://www.theness.com/index.php/the-hero-myth-transcendence-and-joseph-campbell/)

I am Locutus of Borg, resistance is futile! :) I am getting old, thanks for bringing back some good memories.

[Footbutt]

:) Ha haaa! I'm binge-watching Breaking Bad, as a matter of fact. Never watched the show before, now I'm hooked. (No pun intended.) Usually don't watch TV or go to the movies but now I see why everyone does it.

i have been doing that as well!
such an amazing, sad, dramatic show.

[Witch_Doctor]

It is interesting that we now have the gas coming from the tunnel...

Going way back to when ground zero was first encountered by Victor and Pegs, we speculated that it might be an area denial weapon. A defensive measure to keep things away from a valuable facility. When Victor and Saul go back, they do not notice any animals, they see undisturbed dead bodies, even the trees were brown. They also observed blood stains indicating previous violence. CJ later states that one of her explores may have been changed by the gas exposure. @@ On an aside, I still think CJ sabotaged the tanks. She explicitly tells Saul which color tank to use! If there was no difference a priori, why assign a color? @@

We get additional complexity when Victor and Tanya go back the gas is gone and the area is more normal. However, the gas returns shortly after Tanya's gunshot. So, was the localized tremor and gas release just chance coincidence or a defensive measure? Fast forward to the present, the tunnel entrance that Michael, Victor and Datu used is now closed and the tunnel they are at now has gas. So, again, is this a defensive measure or just chance?

Yeah, like a giant underground worm being fed flesh and farting z-gas. Tunneling underground. Does tin rust?:tinfoil:

[Grognaurd]

Yeah, like a giant underground worm being fed flesh and farting z-gas. Tunneling underground. Does tin rust?:tinfoil:

Maybe the tunnels go all the way to the ocean and Saul's squid will show up. Kraken vs. Mega Worm! With a special appearance by some wizard kid who summons a bunch of rabid shark by using a tornado spell in a musical interlude.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Maybe the tunnels go all the way to the ocean and Saul's squid will show up. Kraken vs. Mega Worm! With a special appearance by some wizard kid who summons a bunch of rabid shark by using a tornado spell in a musical interlude.

I see...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rq676FJR2U

[Jannit]

Well, let's say 1/3 have some immunity or resistance. They still have to run away from the other 2/3s. Whatever the turning is, it has low penetrance. There are no where near 5,000,000 million biters running around LA, unless they all ran somewhere to hide and started digging to get out of sight.

I toss out the toxoplasmosis as an example in real life that infects human and affects behavior. We still have a really small sample size. Three people choke, two do not. The two that do not have genetics, exposure to a recently turned and being a vet. I put Saul in the vet, because I got the feeling He spent a lot of time there.

That's a good point! It would help to explain why some people were turned and others were just used for food. Perhaps the disease/antibiotics/immunizations/etc. made people less likely to turn and those were the ones that the zombies just ate. Somewhere in the beginning of the series (I'll have to go dig it out) one of the characters asks about this very thing. How do they decide who to turn and who to eat?

Perhaps the type of immunizations (I'm just going to go with that one for now) also affected how quickly people turned. Maybe those that were the slow turners had lower levels of the antibodies in their systems to start with.

I know this still doesn't explain how things started but perhaps it does fill in one of the big gaps in how we've seen the zombies treat people.

[Robzombie]

We are running out of time to find an explanation to the question why Randy as a character is essential to the story. Something like being turned back by Saul is quite likely in my opinion. He has got to be much more than one of Ink's mindless minions at least in the episodes to come.

Personally I think its sole purpose is to create tremendous guilt within Michael which will lead to and motivate some future action.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Personally I think its sole purpose is to create tremendous guilt within Michael which will lead to and motivate some future action.

Eventually, he is reason we got our beloved broken arm story.

http://marthagiffen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/bigstock-cute-teddy-bear-with-a-broken-14253434.jpg

[Kc]

I still think CJ sabotaged the tanks. She explicitly tells Saul which color tank to use! If there was no difference a priori, why assign a color? @@

I'll just put that to rest. She didn't sabotage them. She wanted information, and she wouldn't get that if they died.

[Grognaurd]

I'll just put that to rest. She didn't sabotage them. She wanted information, and she wouldn't get that if they died.

But, she would have Saul because he was given the good tank. I'd ask for a serving of crow, but I think I would just end up with egg on my face. Lol

[Kc]

But, she would have Saul because he was given the good tank. I'd ask for a serving of crow, but I think I would just end up with egg on my face. Lol

But in reality, if Victor changed, then she wouldn't have Saul ;) Well, if Saul didn't shoot victor first. Not meaning to serve crow, but just letting you in on things that are old details.

[Grognaurd]

Not to worry, the serving of crow is more of a compound joke. Just another example of me looking for links and patterns. It is what I enjoy, however I do not get emotionally attached. They are just possibilities.

[EatMyShorts]

#Randy_Is_A_Dick

[LiamKerrington]

#Randy_Is_A_Dick

Only because he plays with his food?
No. I don't think Randy is a dick. Playing with food is fun!

http://parentables.howstuffworks.com/media/images/promos/2011/05/42-25271485-630x353play_with_food.jpg

Oh, and I don't care if it is number "Saul" from the menu or something else ...

[Gooer]

Only because he plays with his food?
No. I don't think Randy is a dick. Playing with food is fun!

http://parentables.howstuffworks.com/media/images/promos/2011/05/42-25271485-630x353play_with_food.jpg

Oh, and I don't care if it is number "Saul" from the menu or something else ...

You have a good point.

[Gnex]

Wish they would have let Tardust join up with the good guys.... :o

[Gnex]

47-1 please! :)

[MrRedBeard]

I'll just put that to rest. She didn't sabotage them. She wanted information, and she wouldn't get that if they died.

Well she only needed one of them (the one she wanted) but given the fact you wrote it, we have to accept that answer. CJ is just so sneaky and detail oriented that it just fit.

[MickGinger]

Well she only needed one of them (the one she wanted) but given the fact you wrote it, we have to accept that answer. CJ is just so sneaky and detail oriented that it just fit.


But in reality, if Victor changed, then she wouldn't have Saul ;) Well, if Saul didn't shoot victor first. Not meaning to serve crow, but just letting you in on things that are old details.

.

[Eviebae]

Well she only needed one of them (the one she wanted) but given the fact you wrote it, we have to accept that answer. CJ is just so sneaky and detail oriented that it just fit.

NerdGirlPower represent!

Geez, she's not evil! Just a strong female character. Sneaky and detail oriented = cautious and careful. Are you telling me you wouldn't want her in your corner?

[pmchawk]

I saw this "-3" at the top and thought KC released the 2nd to last episode really early.

[zombie Danny]

I would !!!!!!!!!!

[zombie Danny]

One thing I'll throw out there before I venture back into the dark- Riley also dealt with some serious anger issues while at Fort Irwin as well, to the point she was medicated. There's been a history of issues... just to add to the pile.

Like getting super drunk when they were forced to land the helle on the way to Irwin!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrRedBeard]

NerdGirlPower represent!

Geez, she's not evil! Just a strong female character. Sneaky and detail oriented = cautious and careful. Are you telling me you wouldn't want her in your corner?

I would want her on my team but I just really really wouldn't want to be on her bad side or even pose a threat to her.

[Eviebae]

I would want her on my team but I just really really wouldn't want to be on her bad side or even pose a threat to her.

She never seemed malicious or spiteful to me--more guarded and driven to protect--like a mother hen. A crabby, deeply damaged and mistrustful mother hen. After she began to trust Saul and Victor I got the feeling she loves people deeply but with her, that shows itself as spreadsheets and calculations.

Seems like lots of people want to be Alpha so they can order people around and skim the cream off of everyone's work (Durai anyone?). The rare person is one who is willing to take responsibility for their decisions and mistakes.

Remember, Saul lied to her which (along with some bad judgement on her part) resulted in her losing her fraking leg. Basically, she banished him to kush digs so she didn't have to look at his face everyday. I think malicious would have her silencing him some way a tad more permanent.

I wonder if she activates some subroutine in people's brain where they are used to her sort of character being presented evil and conniving?

[Original_Joseph]

Great episode - the first 2 1/2 parts of this chapter felt very slow, especially with the finale this close, but the climax and cliffhanger really paid off.

- I had assumed Tardust would get away with his attack on Lizzie. I guess it would make sense that he would try to confirm that he was in the clear, and the idea that he was going to run into her sooner or later explained why he tried so hard to get away. He was, as far as we know, the last techie in the world, although CJ must at least be comptetant.

- Lots to think about with zombie biology and the Tinks.

[Original_Joseph]

Whoops - I assume somebody pointed this out upthread, but it took me a day or so to see it. It doesn't really make any sense for Tardust to have to make up a story about how he knew Lizzie's name through Kalani. All he had to say was "You mean Lizzie, that woman that Scratch kept prisoner in the Colony for four months? Yeah, Brick and his partner, Lefty McGee, brought her in."

[LiamKerrington]

Whoops - I assume somebody pointed this out upthread, but it took me a day or so to see it. It doesn't really make any sense for Tardust to have to make up a story about how he knew Lizzie's name through Kalani. All he had to say was "You mean Lizzie, that woman that Scratch kept prisoner in the Colony for four months? Yeah, Brick and his partner, Lefty McGee, brought her in."

Well, sometimes people being caught flat-footed simply don't think hard enough and come up with a less brilliant stream of consciousness ... !

[Bullethead]

Hey guys, been a long time.

I'm on my umpteenth re-listen of the entire show and I just heard in this episode Tanya state that the gas comes from the dead bodies. I recall Vic saying that they didn't have the "zombie clean up crew" down south. So one would think this would have been discovered by many of the survivors down south right?

Food for thought.