Chapter 43-3: The Darkness Ahead

[nikvoodoo]

Happy Monday!!

Hope your body clock adjusted from daylight savings easily. If you don't observe daylight savings.....oh man I hate you! Can I live where you live??

[Footbutt]

i must be getting up there in years, because losing just a single hour has thrown me off something fierce!
c'mon, We're Alive! bring some closer to a crazy weekend!

[Storm]

Wait...Daylight saving is today? ...*Looks confused*
Might be different over in the states than here in Denmark... You're weird in so many funny ways already, using feet and fahrenheit instead of meters and celsius...
Anyways, happy monday, looking forward to hear Datu explaining his headache.

[Gnex]

i must be getting up there in years, because losing just a single hour has thrown me off something fierce!
c'mon, We're Alive! bring some closer to a crazy weekend!

I saw a survey on some news channel that said it takes the average person 2 weeks to get adjusted to Daylight savings....... not sure who these people are!!! maybe 2 days..... :britt:

[Gnex]

Lets Go Datu the Zombie Whisperer!!!!!!

[nikvoodoo]

Wait...Daylight saving is today? ...*Looks confused*
Might be different over in the states than here in Denmark... You're weird in so many funny ways already, using feet and fahrenheit instead of meters and celsius...
Anyways, happy monday, looking forward to hear Datu explaining his headache.

Well it was technically yesterday but as mentioned it screws with people for a while. I've found since I went on tour across multiple time zones that daylight savings doesn't affect me as badly as it did when I was a kid.

How do you guys do it in Denmark?

[Gnex]

They probably just say "Oh hey.... it stays daylight longer.... wow!!!"

never understood why we needed to adjust clocks......

If it is for farmers to get more daylight hours or whatever, just tell your workers to sleep an extra hour for blah blah months...... :nik:

[tonyhind86]

Our British Summer Time doesn't kick in till the 30thMarch

Oh, and cool - its finally Monday! :D

[UndeadSweeper]

Happy Monday!!

Hope your body clock adjusted from daylight savings easily. If you don't observe daylight savings.....oh man I hate you! Can I live where you live??

No way, you are leaving me here in the frozen Northwest alone! So sit down have some Buffalo wings and soda as we wait for Nurse Britt to come back.

[Merlin1274]

YAY!! Its Monday.. Now time to sit around twittle my thumbs and wait patiently for lunch time..

[Storm]

Well it was technically yesterday but as mentioned it screws with people for a while. I've found since I went on tour across multiple time zones that daylight savings doesn't affect me as badly as it did when I was a kid.

How do you guys do it in Denmark?

Well, guess we do just like you Guys over there, but just on a different date... Not exactly sure when to be honest. Hehe.

[UndeadSweeper]

YAY!! Its Monday.. Now time to sit around twittle my thumbs and wait patiently for lunch time..

The wait is killing me... I have already gone through three other podcasts already, Critical Hit, Watching Dead and KC favorite's Flip the Table. ;-)

[TacticalJHP]

I saw a survey on some news channel that said it takes the average person 2 weeks to get adjusted to Daylight savings....... not sure who these people are!!! maybe 2 days..... :britt:

I was adjusted to it as I set my clocks.

It was nice having the longer daylight.


YAY!! Its Monday.. Now time to sit around twittle my thumbs and wait patiently for lunch time..

^this. :nik:

I have too much stuff to do to catch the release as it comes out. Sad Tactical.

[Gnex]

Release the kraken!!!!!

[TacticalJHP]

I was adjusted to it as I set my clocks.

I have too much stuff to do to catch the release as it comes out. Sad Tactical.

Screw it, i can't keep away. Just going to put some things on hold for a bit...

[UndeadSweeper]

Release the kraken!!!!!

LOL, Just had that happen in a game Sentinel of Multiverse. We had no chance at beat the super villain in that game but one of the event card release the kraken and it kill more minions then a team of 4 heroes.

[TacticalJHP]

It's up!

[Gnex]

Spooky Spooky......

[Gnex]

Stage 3!!!!!! :britt:

[Gnex]

"Ay Dios Mio" - Victor 2014

[UndeadSweeper]

Thank you, Vic!!!!!!!!! He had the same idea as I did on Saul and Tanya!

[TacticalJHP]

The church....
Into darkness...


Damn...

[Gnex]

Soooo..... that just happened..... :o

[Gooer]

Bring on the new episode.

[Gooer]

Is Datu explaining what it's like for the zombies? That they're distant from their mind?

Noooo, he's at stage 3....... *sigh*

AND the address is near the Arena...

[UndeadSweeper]

Is Datu explaining what it's like for the zombies? That they're distant from their mind?

Noooo, he's at stage 3....... *sigh*


Remember that Tanya and Saul go up and down, I think reading can just increase it but it may go back down. He still able to speak with them, not like Tommy.

[Gooer]

Aha, he noticed the rainbow-fan-symbol-thingy. And the symbol means Stop......weird.

[Gooer]

Remember that Tanya and Saul go up and down, I think reading can just increase it but it may go back down. He still able to speak with them, not like Tommy.

Hopefully it goes down....

[UndeadSweeper]

Hopefully it goes down....

I think Michael will be at fault if he changes. His gun-ho style is putting Vic and Datu in danger because he being blinded by idea ending this. He like Scratch right now.

[Gooer]

Hmm, Datu is receiving some freaky deaky mind control shizzle

The Darkness ahead.....A deep dark hole...guess it relates, besides from all the shit happening. And now they're surrounded. Shit's going down.

[Storm]

I have a feeling that Scratch might somehow have heard Tanya's last message...
Other than that... Quite funny to have the entrance to an underground zombie nest in a church... Straight into hell our heroes went!
I must say that I was a bit disappointed with this episode though, it's starting to be a bit too weird for me, but well... Since Kc said he's not much for magic (or did I dream that?) I guess there's going to be a good explanation for how the fox Datu can understand the symbols...

[pmchawk]

I just had a thought. What if they are smart enough to build a tunnel? What if the reason the pump isn't working and getting the water pressure they need is because there is a tunnel near by where most of the water is going (path of least resistance) and that is the reason they (Datu, Glen, the other guy) were attacked, fear of discovery.

I just want to toot my own horn on this. Yay tunnel!

[skankyfish]

Aha, he noticed the rainbow-fan-symbol-thingy. And the symbol means Stop......weird.

But at the church it meant welcome, or enter, or something similar? (need to listen again, can't quite remember). Maybe it's more a kind of generic ATTENTION PLEASE!


I have a feeling that Scratch might somehow have heard Tanya's last message...
Other than that... Quite funny to have the entrance to an underground zombie nest in a church... Straight into hell our heroes went!
I must say that I was a bit disappointed with this episode though, it's starting to be a bit too weird for me, but well... Since Kc said he's not much for magic (or did I dream that?) I guess there's going to be a good explanation for how the fox Datu can understand the symbols...

I feel exactly the same. I still trust Kc to keep me hooked, but I'm pretty nervous about Datu spontaneously assigning meaning to the symbols. It feels hinky.

[pmchawk]

I think Michael will be at fault if he changes. His gun-ho style is putting Vic and Datu in danger because he being blinded by idea ending this. He like Scratch right now.

That is a great comparison.

[UndeadSweeper]

I have a feeling that Scratch might somehow have heard Tanya's last message...
Other than that... Quite funny to have the entrance to an underground zombie nest in a church... Straight into hell our heroes went!
I must say that I was a bit disappointed with this episode though, it's starting to be a bit too weird for me, but well... Since Kc said he's not much for magic (or did I dream that?) I guess there's going to be a good explanation for how the fox Datu can understand the symbols...

Why would Scratch go after them? Lizzy is probably the last person she would want to cause harm to. She still has a bit humanity in her.

[Gooer]

Uh oh, what's wrong with Lizzie.

Oh god, they're taking her to Cain hospital, this won't end well.....

[HardKor]

So it looks like we're going down the rabbit (zombie?) hole. I'm expecting Michael, Victor, and Datu to find a network of tunnels, but the question is, will they be natural or man-made?
And if the zombies are gathered underground, maybe that explains the little mini-earthquake Victor and Tanya felts at ground zero. But then again, that would have to big one big ass tunnel network to stretch from Pasadena to Inglewood. Multiple tunnel systems and multiple entrances maybe? Ahh I'm getting ahead of myself and starting to ramble. I'm just excited that we might be close to getting some answers into the origins of the ground zero haze.

As for the Lizzy situation. I just want things to go smooth. Why can't things ever go smooth? But yeah we should've known that once they brought Cain Hospital back into the picture, we'd end up going back there.

[UndeadSweeper]

I just want to toot my own horn on this. Yay tunnel!

Toot away. I thought this wasn't possible without tools. So are there mole zombie type as well? Please don't let them be the zombies from the last Resident evil movie.

[Gooer]

But at the church it meant welcome, or enter, or something similar? (need to listen again, can't quite remember). Maybe it's more a kind of generic ATTENTION PLEASE!

Think they said the symbol looked similar, but not too indifferent.

[Gooer]

Toot away. I thought this wasn't possible without tools. So are there mole zombie type as well? Please don't let them be the zombies from the last Resident evil movie.

Maybe due to the zombies lack of sense of pain, lots of strength and being expendable, maybe they just dug? Or the behemoths could of just given a hand?

[TacticalJHP]

I think Michael will be at fault if he changes. His gun-ho style is putting Vic and Datu in danger because he being blinded by idea ending this. He like Scratch right now.

I'm pretty confident Datu is going to change eventually, or Michael will fulfill his promise before that happens. Either way, Datu is not long for the WA world.

But, that being said, this was a very hastily made decision. I was 100% against it listing to the episode, but as time went on, I understood why it went down when it did.

Datu would not be around much longer.
Everyone is moving and packing, if they needed support, it better be now.
It was only supposed to be a quick in and out, without ever going into the church.
And he did alert CJ before going.


If they had not gone into the church, they would have not gotten trapped, but then again, they would have never found the hole.

Amor fati

[aids]

I dont think enough time has lapsed since they started noticing the decreasing zombie hordes to now for them to dig a massive tunnel system maybe just short tunnels scattered around that all connect to a massive under ground cavern where I'm from there's the Haynesville shell its a huge deposit of nature gas underground and this kinda seems similar

[UndeadSweeper]

I dont think enough time has lapsed since they started noticing the decreasing zombie hordes to now for them to dig a massive tunnel system maybe just short tunnels scattered around that all connect to a massive under ground cavern where I'm from there's the Haynesville shell its a huge deposit of nature gas underground and this kinda seems similar

Here another question, wouldn't they lose alot zombies due to earthquake? And if they accident dig near Englewood won't the gas enter said tunnels?

[Verse]

I have a feeling that Scratch might somehow have heard Tanya's last message...
Other than that... Quite funny to have the entrance to an underground zombie nest in a church... Straight into hell our heroes went!
I must say that I was a bit disappointed with this episode though, it's starting to be a bit too weird for me, but well... Since Kc said he's not much for magic (or did I dream that?) I guess there's going to be a good explanation for how the fox Datu can understand the symbols...

I have faith in KC... I have faith in KC..... I have faith in KC...... Stupid Magic Insta-Language.......

Not going to lie. I am scared on a few levels.

The Cliff Hanger was amazing. The Tunnel System... Lizzy... going back to Cain..... Great storytelling. It was a great cliff hanger and such. I don't know how I feel about the Zebs being controlled by Symbols. It feels soooo Magicy and Supernatural (Not the TV series, but genre/style/ect). I was expecting it to be they see more colors. Like some animals do. Mantis Shrimp style. That Datu saw an address b/c he saw new colors or something. Nope. Freaking Magic Language given to you via a bite. He even knows one means STOP. Explains that Ink is controlling them via his tat's though. So there is that. It's an answer.

I have faith that KC will not go all Lost on us though.

[UndeadSweeper]

And also Matugun underground is a great idea, hoping for tight corners since the impact will go through several zombies a time.

[clem131]

(Clarence Royce)Sh********************t(/Clarence Royce)
What an episode.
Oh, and nice try, KC, but I still hate CJ. :P

[aids]

Great questions maybe all the gas has escaped by now its almost been a year since it all started and as for them loosing numbers to an earthquake idek lol underground could still be safer than above ground to them they want to survive just like the humans

[UndeadSweeper]

(Clarence Royce)Sh********************t(/Clarence Royce)
What an episode.
Oh, and nice try, KC, I still hate CJ. :P

Careful, you might get on Tanya's bad side, talking about CJ like. And as Saul found out, she ain't got no time for nonsense.

[Temporal_Logic]

And also Matugun underground is a great idea, hoping for tight corners since the impact will go through several zombies a time.

Blocking the pathways at least temporarily with zombie bodies.

[Merlin1274]

Ok.. I was right. address was to the Church.. also on the Symbols.. A twofer..
This episode was intense. Great Cliff Hanger. Now I will be doing more then twittling my thumbs waiting on the next.. Goto listen again at home.. I missed somethings I know.. Too noisy at work. Left my headphones home for my phone.

Lizzie maybe fixing to loose the baby.. Cain I think is a very bad Idea..

Michael Narrated the whole time with them so we know he makes it out.. I hope they all make it out. But I have a funny feeling they will be short one or two.

[UndeadSweeper]

Great questions maybe all the gas has escaped by now its almost been a year since it all started and as for them loosing numbers to an earthquake idek lol underground could still be safer than above ground to them they want to survive just like the humans

I don't know because of the higher risk of caving in and such. I can't see the zombies wear hardhats and singing "Everything is awesome" as they build complex and stable tunnels.

[Gooer]

Ok.. I was right. address was to the Church.. also on the Symbols.. A twofer..
This episode was intense. Great Cliff Hanger. Now I will be doing more then twittling my thumbs waiting on the next.. Goto listen again at home.. I missed somethings I know.. Too noisy at work. Left my headphones home for my phone.

Lizzie maybe fixing to loose the baby.. Cain I think is a very bad Idea..

Michael Narrated the whole time with them so we know he makes it out.. I hope they all make it out. But I have a funny feeling they will be short one or two.

Oh god.... I CANNOT LOSE VIKTOR! Datu's dead either way, but not Viktor.......please....

[Grognaurd]

The idea of Datu taking a backseat to his own mind makes me think "Puppet Master" or Goa'uld of Stargate SG-1.

Listening to Michael drive the gun truck off road gave me Halo flashbacks. Lol. I was always trying to take the warthog where it was not supposed to go. Even trying exploits with grenades and such to blow it past the typical pathing barriers.

When I heard Michael indicating he was just going to reconoiter the address, I heard Burt sarcastically say "Sure, sure..."

[Kc]

I don't know because of the higher risk of caving in and such. I can't see the zombies wear hardhats and singing "Everything is awesome" as they build complex and stable tunnels.

This made me laugh.


I have faith in KC... I have faith in KC..... I have faith in KC...... Stupid Magic Insta-Language.......

Not going to lie. I am scared on a few levels.
...
I have faith that KC will not go all Lost on us though.

It ain't "magic". Some people's theories are close, and some are way off. You'll just have to wait for this one...

[Gooer]

Now i understand the thumbnail for the chapter.....the hole in the wall is actually the hole in the ground...

[Kc]

Now i understand the thumbnail for the chapter.....the hole in the wall is actually the hole in the ground...

And the literal Darkness... Ben (our artist) did a great job of not making it obvious with the art. I don't think anyone predicted it... or if they did it was very few.

BRING ON THE DRAGONS!

Wait... wrong story.

[UndeadSweeper]

This made me laugh.

Ah, good. After I post this I re-read it and thought to myself, 'Oh no, I accidentally made a reference to a musical ep, again.'


And at distant, I could actual hear a table being flip.

[Gooer]

This made me laugh.



It ain't "magic". Some people's theories are close, and some are way off. You'll just have to wait for this one...

Jeepers, you're putting me on edge with the anticipation of all the answers we'll be getting....

[Gnex]

If you guys will just excuse me..........

I'm going to be over here with my rope and harness gear........ cause all these cliffhangers are just outta control...............

[Verse]

This made me laugh.



It ain't "magic". Some people's theories are close, and some are way off. You'll just have to wait for this one...

I got faith. So far everything has turned out awesome. Can't wait to see what it is.

[Kc]

If you guys will just excuse me..........

I'm going to be over here with my rope and harness gear........ cause all these cliffhangers are just outta control...............

You're gonna need a lot more rope... we still have five more chapters. I love to tease.

And with that... I'll vanish back into the lurkers.

[EatMyShorts]

So the zombie symbols are complex enough to relay a street name and street number (not just a general location) that can be directly correlated to english, and they are conveyed as part of the zombie infection (or demonic possession or whatever it is). A little bit out there, but that is absolutely fine with me considering the awesome direction that the story lines just headed and the related drama. Really good episode! Business is about to pick-up.

[EpiEpee]

For whoever asked what's going on with Lizzie:

It sounds like Lizzie has pre-eclampsia, which presents with high blood pressure, among other symptoms. One of the very serious consequences is progression to eclampsia which includes seizures, which are obviously bad for the mom and the fetus. Pre-eclampsia is currently thought to be due to the mom's blood vessels that go to the placenta not changing correctly to allow for the pregnancy, and can put the baby at risk of not receiving enough O2 and nutrients (leading to the heart rate slowing).

Tanya is exactly right that the baby needs to be delivered now. She's far enough along in the pregnancy that the baby should make it, especially if they can find some steroids to help the baby's lungs mature, and they don't get held up too long before surgery. You can hold off some of the bad effects by giving magnesium to the mom, but it sounds like Lizzie's blood pressure may be high enough that it won't help at this point.

Either that, or KC has some weird zombie baby thing going on, and then I have no idea what's up.

...And my hair is still on end from listening to that episode. It's going to be a looong two weeks.

[Footbutt]

Michael and/or Victor will live through the tunnel ordeal. we have Michael's entry to prove it!

Datu's ability to read the symbols and feel like he's losing control felt very natural in the story progression. i didn't cringe or wrinkle my nose at the concept of something VERY odd with him. of all the things that has happened since the run-in with the first runner sighting at the convoy ambush... man, this is so deep and intense.

Lizzy might die. :(
i just canNOT see the baby dying.
that entire last scene hit close to home too. very intense and VERY well written.
if this story doesn't get picked up by TV/Movie studios, i dont' know what will.

[Grognaurd]

I will repost this here, because it came to me in the second half of the week and many may have missed it...



:tinfoil: time...

So, this big one walking to the hospital. It was not mentioned that he looked starved. He was described as "bark" covered, not Bone. Puck did not include tattoos in his description. Seems to me, this is not part of the same crowd as the ones in the Jail. Why would it be driven to go to the hospital? I have a slim lead. We were given several names from Ink's trial info. Austin McKibbon, Cohen and Nick something or other. We got info on the first two, we found Cohen's cell and got a name for arrow head.

So, Nick, Hmmm... It is interesting to note that he was part of the criminal psychiatric department. Where was that located? Say it with me now, Cain memorial hospital! Right where we saw this one headed.

The other interesting twist of all the possible baby names that Lizzy could choose, it was Nicholas. It gets curiouser when we remember that she went into psychology for her father...


Interesting theory, but we could only prove it if Lizzy saw this one, which might not ever happen....

I just hope Tanya does not forget to grab a generator like Angel forgot the key when Lizzy had her first emergency...

[Gnex]

Michael and Victor sure are trigger happy with that Syringe......

Jeez guys..... Its Datu..... and he is going to be fine....... calm down with the Grab the Syringe mess!!!!!

[UndeadSweeper]

Michael and Victor sure are trigger happy with that Syringe......

Jeez guys..... Its Datu..... and he is going to be fine....... calm down with the Grab the Syringe mess!!!!!

Yea, it went from, Datu I can't that for you.

Datu: *sneeze*
Michael: Vic get the syringe! He's turning !!!!

[Gooer]

I just hope Tanya does not forget to grab a generator like Angel forgot the key when Lizzy had her first emergency...

Who would of thought they'd be having the baby at the hospital..... Generator, screaming lady, screaming baby...too much noise, i don't like where this is going....

[EatMyShorts]

Who would of thought they'd be having the baby at the hospital..... Generator, screaming lady, screaming baby...too much noise, i don't like where this is going....

And of course lots of sweat.

[UndeadSweeper]

Who would of thought they'd be having the baby at the hospital..... Generator, screaming lady, screaming baby...too much noise, i don't like where this is going....

Just remember Behemoth don't play well with other. He could turn out to be a blessing then a curse. We know the number ones are the only one with any intelligences. If he alone you have a pretty good guard. The screaming maybe one of few hurdles they need jump. But I think those can be contain within a hospital room.

[7oddisdead]

Firstly, great episode.

second, TOOT!

[Merlin1274]

Who would of thought they'd be having the baby at the hospital..... Generator, screaming lady, screaming baby...too much noise, i don't like where this is going....

Maybe Ink Steals the Baby..

[UndeadSweeper]

Oh crud, CJ left, groups are moving, Micheal left and Tanya is leaving and left a vm at the colony. Guess who going to sneak into the colony and get that message??

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

So, Michael and Vic are in, and little Henry is on his way out.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

BTW, I wonder if chapter 43 underwent a title change:

Here are my candidates:

We're alive into darkness
Residential evil
In & Out

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

And last but not least:

SCRATCH WILL BE BACK IN CHAPTER 44.

[Jannit]

Just to echo a few things that have already been said...

First off, great episode! I really, really liked this one. So many things seem to be clicking into place and we're getting set up for some very interesting times ahead. Loved it!

Secondly, Grognaurd and UndeadSweeper have already discussed the lurking behemoth at Cain and I really like Grognaurd's idea of the big one being Lizzy's father. If it's as Datu says and the human side of you is still aware while the zombie side is in control, having Lizzy's bulked out behemoth of a dad around during childbirth could be the best possible scenario if he becomes their own personal watchdog. That'd really be the only way to counter all that noise from the generator, wouldn't it? Plus, if he has been lurking around Cain long enough, it's possible that he has driven other Zed's out of the area.

I do like the idea of Scratch showing up post-delivery and stealing away the baby. With her oddly maternal fixation on Lizzy (the fixation is likely on the baby and Lizzy benefited just by being the delivery mechanism) it would make sense for her to come if she heard the broadcast about Cain. Not that I want Saul and Lizzy to lose their baby but it does make for an interesting twist from a story telling perspective.

[Grognaurd]

The Behemoth are an interesting wild card. They killed the three soldiers from Denver, but not Puck from Ft. Irwin. Was this threat analysis? Pretty damn smart that they killed the person with the big gun. Go outside, instead of killing Puck, it wrecks the gun truck. Again, threat-based? However, the truck was from Dunbar and might have smelled like Saul and Victor.

But, what is their purpose? They are war-machines, but paraphrasing President Roslin from Battlestar Galactica, in the pilot episode, the war is over, we lost...

Why does Ink or someone else feel the need to make these things? I also said that maybe the symbols were part of intelligence test. One cell was not broken into and one of the symbols Datu translates as don't go there. I wonder if we are given the specifics with this one on the door that remained intact.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I guess that Michael will break the fourth wall and ask: "Oh, Kc, why did you give my character this abyssmal keen sense of bad timing?"
Someone is most probably going to die next time.

[qreepii]

Love you KC for referencing the Thomas bros guides. Sad to say they've become the old timers gps. Too bad they aren't in print anymore.

Great episode, burning question I have now is are the zombies actually zombies or mind controlled with the original people taking a back seat to their own bodies?

Could Datu hear them in his mind or with his ears?

Cain Hospital Round Two?

[runs4theheckofit]

I liked this episode a lot! I have a soft spot for underground tunnels and babies. Cain Hospital... Really??? Ugh. Everyone is breaking up and dividing like amoebas. Maybe there is a giant earthworm zombie in the tunnel, that would freak me out a bit. What if there is something seriously wrong with the baby? I can't help thinking that eventually the zombies are going to run out of food and I'm wondering if Ink has a plan for this already. What if he takes lil' henry and starts cloning him and growing more humans in rows like cornstalks...

Too much sci-fi for me.

[Grognaurd]

Just double checked 42-3 about the 12:00 minute mark they find one cell not broken into. It has the Glyph that Datu recognizes as don't go there...

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Now that Vic and Michael are going deeper underground, it is time for a short season 3 hommage. I just hope they are able to make it out of there:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wj5iBx2FjY

[UndeadSweeper]

I guess that Michael will break the fourth wall and ask: "Oh, Kc, why did you give my character this abyssmal keen sense of bad timing?"
Someone is most probably going to die next time.

Victor already did with collective fans of We're Alive when Michael decide it was a good idea to go "Ay Dios Mio"

[Gnex]

Just double checked 42-3 about the 12:00 minute mark they find one cell not broken into. It has the Glyph that Datu recognizes as don't go there...

I wonder if Ink was keeping his "Final Test Subject" in there......... and marked the door as "Don't go in" or whatever..... to keep the other Behemoths from killing him while Ink perfected his experiments?!?!?

[7oddisdead]

So am I mistaken, or was the symbol datu read the rainbow thing both times..?

first time: stop

second time: enter

[Gnex]

So am I mistaken, or was the symbol datu read the rainbow thing both times..?

first time: stop

second time: enter

Maybe it's like Aloha.... it means hello and goodbye!!! LOL :)

[Gnex]

So am I mistaken, or was the symbol datu read the rainbow thing both times..?

first time: stop

second time: enter

Michael says they looked similar..... so maybe it is a slight variation between enter and leave

[Gnex]

Just before they go into the hole Datu says "I can hear them!!!"

Are we finally going to get some insight into what zombies are actually saying??? Now that Datu can understand them?!???

[7oddisdead]

Alright, just needed it confirmed.

datu says they don't "say" anything. Sounded to me like seeing them gives direction. Thusly, two meanings for the same symbol. Anybody else get thoughts of autism when datu began describing taking a backseat in his mind? Well...that, being jon malkovich(sp fail), and fungal nanotech....

too many random thoughts...someone check my eyes..

[Gooer]

So am I mistaken, or was the symbol datu read the rainbow thing both times..?

first time: stop

second time: enter

Michael says that the symbols are similar, but not identical

[Gooer]

Just before they go into the hole Datu says "I can hear them!!!"

Are we finally going to get some insight into what zombies are actually saying??? Now that Datu can understand them?!???

I thought he meant "I can hear them" as in they were pretty close, and they needed to get out, but now that you said that......

[Verse]

Just double checked 42-3 about the 12:00 minute mark they find one cell not broken into. It has the Glyph that Datu recognizes as don't go there...

My bet is that it was one of his Control Subjects. A Baseline if you will. See what changes and compair it to what you had. Keep that one safe so that people do not bother it. He knows it is untainted and can compair.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi. Haven't read through 10 pages of awesome. Just listened to the episode once ... And have nearly no time to dig any deeper except for this:

I actually happened to expect nothing else but complications about the appearance of Little Henry. But I did not anticipate THIS hospital to be the place to go ... And I expect nothing else but Ink to show up and snatch the baby away for his new creation to be spawned ...

As for the church: This was unexpected. Ok, the episode-wallpaper suggests something like this happening.But did anyone expect anything close to what is happening?
Question: Is there some unconscious thing going on, and R2Da2 has no idea that he already works as a puppet for the puppet master in order to bring humans to hell on Earth?

This episode is something like this: Things falling apart - the different way.

Best wishes!
Liam

EDIT: Now I have dug through all forum-pages for this chapter so far ... /EDIT

[Jannit]

My bet is that it was one of his Control Subjects. A Baseline if you will. See what changes and compair it to what you had. Keep that one safe so that people do not bother it. He knows it is untainted and can compair.

Wasn't this symbol on one of the doors that were broken in? If so, it would imply that all of the other behemoths could read it and knew not to break into the room. If behemoths tend to eat people, it would be a very good test of the strength of the symbol's meaning. Food versus symbols and all that.

Now I need to go back and check too.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Victor already did with collective fans of We're Alive when Michael decide it was a good idea to go "Ay Dios Mio"

It becomes much more intense if you imagine Victor to look like this in such a moment:

http://content9.flixster.com/question/63/27/09/6327099_std.jpg

[Witch_Doctor]

I don't know because of the higher risk of caving in and such. I can't see the zombies wear hardhats and singing "Everything is awesome" as they build complex and stable tunnels.


Also, a vast tunnel system will displace a LOT of dirt. There would have been hills of dirt from the inside of the tunnels.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

But let's get back to business:

Why did Ink chose this particular chapel as one of his hide-outs? For sentimental reasons? Does it offer any strategic advantages?

[UndeadSweeper]

But let's get back to business:

Why did Ink chose this particular chapel as one of his hide-outs? For sentimental reasons? Does it offer any strategic advantages?

Strategic advantages, it would be the most overlook place on the map.

Think about it, who would ransack a small church? There really no place to sleep, eat or protect from large crowds. Small place don't have a kitchen, so no food. Too many entrance and exits. Alot of windows that are a pain to protect. Most survivors would drive right by it.

[Witch_Doctor]

Listening to them running into the tunnel while the zombies approached reminded my of another story wear the character were faced with frying pan or fire. I could place my finger on it till it hit me.( The memory. not my finger.) Riley and Angel going into the pile of bodies.

[UndeadSweeper]

Listening to them running into the tunnel while the zombies approached reminded my of another story wear the character were faced with frying pan or fire. I could place my finger on it till it hit me.( The memory. not my finger.) Riley and Angel going into the pile of bodies.

At least they have the A-team on this one. King Datu the resourceful, Vic the Victorious and the Matugun. Oh yea Michael is there, hopefully not distracted by a red-beard or a shine light.

[MrRedBeard]

And the literal Darkness... Ben (our artist) did a great job of not making it obvious with the art. I don't think anyone predicted it... or if they did it was very few.

BRING ON THE DRAGONS!

Wait... wrong story.

Umm your new project or Game of Thrones?

[tonyhind86]

Oh

My

God

:britt:

Roll on the 24th!!!

[MrRedBeard]

Alright, just needed it confirmed.

datu says they don't "say" anything. Sounded to me like seeing them gives direction. Thusly, two meanings for the same symbol. Anybody else get thoughts of autism when datu began describing taking a backseat in his mind? Well...that, being jon malkovich(sp fail), and fungal nanotech....

too many random thoughts...someone check my eyes..

Either way it goes it sounds like the ability will be a thin line between hive mind and magic.


Just before they go into the hole Datu says "I can hear them!!!"

Are we finally going to get some insight into what zombies are actually saying??? Now that Datu can understand them?!???

This also needs to be a topic for tonight's fancast (http://werealive.mickred.com/wafc-live-fan-interactive-show-faq/).


At least they have the A-team on this one. King Datu the resourceful, Vic the Victorious and the Matugun. Oh yea Michael is there, hope not distracted by a red-beard or a shine light.

haha

[Kc]

umm your new project or game of thrones?

got.

[tonyhind86]

got.

You caught up with all three Season 4 trailers yet?

[Kc]

You caught up with all three Season 4 trailers yet?

Sort of. I tend to ignore previews as I can usually figure out everything and ruin it for myself. These I watched and they're very ambiguous. I like that.

[TacticalJHP]

I understand where some people are not liking the fact that Datu can read the symbols, or that they mean something to the zombies. But i'm not upset at all.

In this story already, we have zombies...(which already makes it a Sci Fi story.)

Then some of those zombies are more advanced than others some how. Smarter, faster, jump higher...

Suddenly, there was this big freaking hulk-like zombie that just crushed everything in it's path and took an arrow to the eye or a .50cal to the chest without stopping...

then there was introduced one zombie that was wearing a pinstriped suit, could talk, act normal, and even do complex tasks. Then was stronger, faster, jump higher. Later it turns out he is a Scientist who went nuts and killed a bunch of people just before the outbreak and got himself covered in prison ink...

And if all this was not bad enough, we had little creatures which may or may not have been human but grew up to be the meanest mothers around with tattooed arms that lead to long sharpened nails.



We accepted all those things before they were explained. To be honest, the fact that Datu can read the symbols is not the weirdest thing in this show. But, i am trusting KC will explain it too.

[tonyhind86]

Sort of. I tend to ignore previews as I can usually figure out everything and ruin it for myself. These I watched and they're very ambiguous. I like that.

I've read the books so I know what's going to happen already - trust me, the trailers don't give any hint as to the epic scale of Season 4. You won't be disappointed.

On that note, the cliffhangers you keep leaving us on during these episodes are getting me more excited than the upcoming GOT: Season 4 :nik:

[7oddisdead]

I understand where some people are not liking the fact that Datu can read the symbols, or that they mean something to the zombies. But i'm not upset at all.

In this story already, we have zombies...(which already makes it a Sci Fi story.)

Then some of those zombies are more advanced than others some how. Smarter, faster, jump higher...

Suddenly, there was this big freaking hulk-like zombie that just crushed everything in it's path and took an arrow to the eye or a .50cal to the chest without stopping...

then there was introduced one zombie that was wearing a pinstriped suit, could talk, act normal, and even do complex tasks. Then was stronger, faster, jump higher. Later it turns out he is a Scientist who went nuts and killed a bunch of people just before the outbreak and got himself covered in prison ink...

And if all this was not bad enough, we had little creatures which may or may not have been human but grew up to be the meanest mothers around with tattooed arms that lead to long sharpened nails.



We accepted all those things before they were explained. To be honest, the fact that Datu can read the symbols is not the weirdest thing in this show. But, i am trusting KC will explain it too.

PREACH!!

Everyone seems to forget all the above, just because its semi-plausible via -physics- but its so damn true. Soon as we turn to a subject you can't really google, its magic.

[Litmaster]

Holy shit... I go to work for awhile, come back home and the forum blows up. Gotta catch up...


I don't know how I feel about the Zebs being controlled by Symbols. It feels soooo Magicy and Supernatural (Not the TV series, but genre/style/ect). I was expecting it to be they see more colors. Like some animals do. Mantis Shrimp style. That Datu saw an address b/c he saw new colors or something. Nope. Freaking Magic Language given to you via a bite. He even knows one means STOP. Explains that Ink is controlling them via his tat's though. So there is that. It's an answer.

I have faith that KC will not go all Lost on us though.

Hoooo-wee! Verse bustin' out the L-word on Kc's Zombie Insta-Language thing! And now we have confirmation (via Datu's actions at the church) that these symbols don't just INFORM, they COMMAND the Zeds to do something or other. And yet Kc says it ain't magic or whatnot.... WELL KC GOT VERSE ON THE VERGE OF CALLIN'

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Bullshit_7bff3f_727444.png

on this whole thing!!! BETTER HAVE A DAMNED GOOD JUSTIFICATION FOR THESE HEAR PROCEEDIN'S, BOSS, Y'HEAR? DAMNED GOOD! :nik:


I don't know because of the higher risk of caving in and such. I can't see the zombies wear hardhats and singing "Everything is awesome" as they build complex and stable tunnels.

and


Also, a vast tunnel system will displace a LOT of dirt. There would have been hills of dirt from the inside of the tunnels.

Yeah, WD... my first thoughts exactly when I heard about this hole and tunnel thing: "Where's the Dirt?" And BOSS MAN BETTER HAVE'A GOOD ANSWER, TOO, ELSE WE GONNA BE CAWLIN'G BOWLSHEEEIIT ON DEZE HEAR ENTIRE PLOT HOLES!! (er, sorry... got temporarily possessed by a cajun crawdad from deep in the bayou.... )


It ain't "magic". Some people's theories are close, and some are way off. You'll just have to wait for this one...

Uh-huh. :rolleyes: All I gotta say is if I see dwarves in the next episode.... I'M OUT! :mad:


Jeepers, you're putting me on edge with the anticipation of all the answers we'll be getting....

Uh, I'm sorry.... perhaps you've got Kc confused with a different author. When has this man ever been in the business of giving an answer without raising three more questions in the process?


So the zombie symbols are complex enough to relay a street name and street number (not just a general location) that can be directly correlated to english, and they are conveyed as part of the zombie infection (or demonic possession or whatever it is). A little bit out there...

A LOT bit out there, as far as I'm concerned... not that the idea isn't compelling. More in this in another post...


Secondly, Grognaurd and UndeadSweeper have already discussed the lurking behemoth at Cain and I really like Grognaurd's idea of the big one being Lizzy's father. If it's as Datu says and the human side of you is still aware while the zombie side is in control, having Lizzy's bulked out behemoth of a dad around during childbirth could be the best possible scenario if he becomes their own personal watchdog. That'd really be the only way to counter all that noise from the generator, wouldn't it? Plus, if he has been lurking around Cain long enough, it's possible that he has driven other Zed's out of the area.

I sure hope this isn't the case. Last I checked, Los Angeles has a population of about 3.8 MILLION people, and to have such an improbable occurrence as this would really stretch the tenuous cords of believability. We've already has the improbable situation of Scratch knowing who Angel was, and of Michael meeting back up with Randy at the water works, and to have another pre-outbreak relationship manifest this late in the story would get me crinkling my nose...


I guess that Michael will break the fourth wall and ask: "Oh, Kc, why did you give my character this abysmal keen sense of bad timing?"

and


Listening to them running into the tunnel while the zombies approached reminded my of another story wear the character were faced with frying pan or fire. I could place my finger on it till it hit me.( The memory. not my finger.) Riley and Angel going into the pile of bodies.

Kc does seem to be going to the well a bit too often with this one. Let's hope it's the last time.



Maybe there is a giant earthworm zombie in the tunnel, that would freak me out a bit. What if there is something seriously wrong with the baby? I can't help thinking that eventually the zombies are going to run out of food and I'm wondering if Ink has a plan for this already. What if he takes lil' henry and starts cloning him and growing more humans in rows like cornstalks...

Um... and this is why I'm glad Kc is writing the story instead of someone else... :hsugh:


Now that Vic and Michael are going deeper underground, it is time for a short season 3 hommage. I just hope they are able to make it out of there

I'll do you one better. Here's a preview into what the next episode with Michael, Datu, and Vic is gonna be like:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KroREmHLoKY

[7oddisdead]

I have to wonder if they actually checked inside the arena...or just set up cameras outside. If the central part of the arena is still intact, that'd be a reeeeeal good place to hide a lot of dirt.

[UndeadSweeper]

Holy shit... I go to work for awhile, come back home and the forum blows up. Gotta catch up...



Hoooo-wee! Verse bustin' out the L-word on Kc's Zombie Insta-Language thing! And now we have confirmation (via Datu's actions at the church) that these symbols don't just INFORM, they COMMAND the Zeds to do something or other. And yet Kc says it ain't magic or whatnot.... WELL KC GOT VERSE ON THE VERGE OF CALLIN'

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Bullshit_7bff3f_727444.png

on this whole thing!!! BETTER HAVE A DAMNED GOOD JUSTIFICATION FOR THESE HEAR PROCEEDIN'S, BOSS, Y'HEAR? DAMNED GOOD! :nik:



and



Yeah, WD... my first thoughts exactly when I heard about this hole and tunnel thing: "Where's the Dirt?" And BOSS MAN BETTER HAVE'A GOOD ANSWER, TOO, ELSE WE GONNA BE CAWLIN'G BOWLSHEEEIIT ON DEZE HEAR ENTIRE PLOT HOLES!! (er, sorry... got temporarily possessed by a cajun crawdad from deep in the bayou.... )



Uh-huh. :rolleyes: All I gotta say is if I see dwarves in the next episode.... I'M OUT! :mad:

Uh, I'm sorry.... perhaps you've got Kc confused with a different author. When has this man ever been in the business of giving an answer without raising three more questions in the process?



A LOT bit out there, as far as I'm concerned... not that the idea isn't compelling. More in this in another post...

I sure hope this isn't the case. Last I checked, Los Angeles has a population of about 3.8 MILLION people, and to have such an improbable occurrence as this would really stretch the tenuous cords of believability. We've already has the improbable situation of Scratch knowing who Angel was, and of Michael meeting back up with Randy at the water works, and to have another pre-outbreak relationship manifest this late in the story would get me crinkling my nose...

and

Kc does seem to be going to the well a bit too often with this one. Let's hope it's the last time.

Um... and this is why I'm glad Kc is writing the story instead of someone else... :hsugh:

I'll do you one better. Here's a preview into what the next episode with Michael, Datu, and Vic is gonna be like:



Someone get Litmaster his coffee, he be mad. He when all Daryl Dixon on us.

[Litmaster]

I understand where some people are not liking the fact that Datu can read the symbols, or that they mean something to the zombies. But i'm not upset at all.

In this story already, we have zombies...(which already makes it a Sci Fi story.)

Then some of those zombies are more advanced than others some how. Smarter, faster, jump higher...

Suddenly, there was this big freaking hulk-like zombie that just crushed everything in it's path and took an arrow to the eye or a .50cal to the chest without stopping...

then there was introduced one zombie that was wearing a pinstriped suit, could talk, act normal, and even do complex tasks. Then was stronger, faster, jump higher. Later it turns out he is a Scientist who went nuts and killed a bunch of people just before the outbreak and got himself covered in prison ink...

And if all this was not bad enough, we had little creatures which may or may not have been human but grew up to be the meanest mothers around with tattooed arms that lead to long sharpened nails.



We accepted all those things before they were explained. To be honest, the fact that Datu can read the symbols is not the weirdest thing in this show. But, i am trusting KC will explain it too.


PREACH!!

Everyone seems to forget all the above, just because its semi-plausible via -physics- but its so damn true. Soon as we turn to a subject you can't really google, its magic.


Okay, boys... calm down. And very fair point, JHP. And actually, it is not these particular issues that really cause trouble for me. I'm gonna steal a quote from a blog I reference (http://jamigold.com/2011/11/what-makes-a-story-feel-unrealistic/) with respect to this believability issue. Supposedly, this is from Tolkien:


“[I]n order for the narrative to work, the reader must believe that what he reads is true within the secondary reality of the fictional world. By focusing on creating an internally consistent fictional world, the author makes secondary belief possible.”


Internally consistent. That is the issue that is centrally important when creating a fictional world such as this post-Zompoc Los Angeles.... do the given laws of this world contradict themselves during the course of the story? This is what bothers the hell out of me with The Walking Dead--they contradict their given zombie rules at every turn. The story has to be consistent within itself, and I think, for the most part, this story is.

Whether or not the elements are fantastical (e.g., zombie's wearing suits, talking, creating mutations, etc.) is not the aspect that gets me to cry "Booooowwlsheeeit!" Rather, such things as plot holes (Denver somehow gets destroyed without any mention of the existence of a nuke planted there), unjustified character motivations (Pegs suddenly whips out a .50 cal and starts mowin' 'em down out of revenge for the Mallers killing of landlord Bill!), or inconsistent story physics (flying Zombiedactyls!) really tend to get my panties in a bunch.

Part of the issue here is that Kc has essentially created a low-fantasy story, meaning that it takes place primarily in our regular world of reality, yet draws upon many fantastical elements (zombies) that are not part of that world. This would be different than, say, a high-fantasy like LOTR or GOT, which take place entirely in an alternate fictional reality which may or may not reflect elements of our own reality. We tend to judge Kc's story strictly on our given reality, rather than the one he's created.

[7oddisdead]

^I'm on my phone, so I'm not quoting all that. Look at litmasters second big post.

the last sentence there is the issue. Its unfair to judge the story on comparisons to our world. That's an issue for the reader, not the author. There's been enough of a separation of the two throughout the story (in my eyes) to make that a non issue.

another problem, and this will sound like criticism...is KC is far too accessible and answers too many questions. What little hs said about this chapter so far(in my opinion) he shouldn't have. It goes into a lot of my feelings on why LOST got the hate it did for the ending. The creators coloring the fans opinion outside the show material.

I'm done for now. This little keyboard sucks when you have a lot to say..

[Witch_Doctor]

I'll do you one better. Here's a preview into what the next episode with Michael, Datu, and Vic is gonna be like:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KroREmHLoKY

There's even a Mata gun.

[Grognaurd]

Lit, two days and there was no one left in LA, I do not think that was enough time for them to be eaten or bitten. We have evidence that the gas itself can kill and or induce change. I figure everyone left is special with some partial resistance. The people left in LA have been preselected for some phenotype that runs in families.

Latch & Scratch
Saul & Tanya
Tommy & Kelly
Samantha & Hope

I do not feel like a Lizzy & Nick Rivers link is too far out there. Although it could be misdirection for people like me that grab every lose thread and try to link them, but I do not think it is another Puck & Puck incident.

[Gooer]

Uh, I'm sorry.... perhaps you've got Kc confused with a different author. When has this man ever been in the business of giving an answer without raising three more questions in the process?

Well, yea..... But he has to give us most/all the answers eventually....

[Litmaster]

another problem, and this will sound like criticism...is KC is far too accessible and answers too many questions.

Nah... I think the fact that he is so accessible and reads so much fan input is a strength rather than a weakness. You gotta think, how many other writers have had the opportunity to witness such an instantaneous reaction to their work, even within a few minutes of publishing it? Stephen King never experienced that. Kc says he doesn't take fan input into account insofar as shaping the story, but I can't see how this cannot affect his writing process, at least to a degree.

It's got to be challenging to keep switching back and forth between 'creative' mode (when writing) and 'critical' mode (when directing, editing, interacting with fans, etc). Imagine the equivalent if, say Van Gogh were in the process of painting "The Starry Night", got a few brushstrokes down, then hung it in a gallery and stood amongst some reviewers to criticize it, then back to the shop to work on it a bit more, then back to the gallery again, etc. It is definitely a new way of creating that didn't exist prior to the technological means we now have. I wonder to what degree this is changing art in general, but this is another discussion for another day...

But the story is strong, nevertheless. I think the fact that, this far into the story and the fucker has STILL got us guessing as to the nature of certain mysteries--despite all his input and clarifying--is damned near miraculous. :nik:

[7oddisdead]

Your taking what I'm saying too literally. What I'm getting at is the little things hes said here or there color OUR OPINION. We know KC as a rational, skeptical, science-minded type o guy. That colors our opinion in what we see within the story. I'm all for everything you said. But understand it affects us the listners.

[Litmaster]

Lit, two days and there was no one left in LA, I do not think that was enough time for them to be eaten or bitten. We have evidence that the gas itself can kill and or induce change. I figure everyone left is special with some partial resistance. The people left in LA have been preselected for some phenotype that runs in families.

Latch & Scratch
Saul & Tanya
Tommy & Kelly
Samantha & Hope

I do not feel like a Lizzy & Nick Rivers link is too far out there. Although it could be misdirection for people like me that grab every lose thread and try to link them, but I do not think it is another Puck & Puck incident.

Never gonna let him live down the two Pucks, eh? :D And that was just a simple name fuck-up! :nik:

Hmmmmmm..... this would help support the close 'family ties' that seem to be evident in the story (and implausible, given the population, at least initially), but contradicted by evidence such as Victor freaking out on the gas near ground zero, while Saul was not. But you did say partial resistance...

Interesting theory, but too far down the rabbit hole for me at this time... :tinfoil:

[Zombie Yeti]

I can't wait for how intense the tunnel situation is gonna be. Man oh man nothing freakier than a tunnel full of zanies pitch black. My guess there are gonna be tunnels under the colony Dunbar Kane hospital all over.

[Witch_Doctor]

Sounds like Datu is experiencing dissociative feelings, or a detachment from his own self, when he talks about watching from the back of his mind.

Just for kicks: There is an interesting connection to Haitian Voodoo zombies and dissociative drugs. One ingredient found in the zombie powder by Dr. Wade Davis (The Serpent and the Rainbow) was tetrodotoxin, found in puffer fish. The other was the plant datura or jimsonweed (Zombie Cucumber). This plants can make a person prone to suggestion in addition to dissociative feelings. http://zombie.wikia.com/wiki/Zombies

Now, just waiting for someone to make a :tinfoil: connection based on the fact that the first four letters of datura are d,a,t and u.

[7oddisdead]

Assuming I get out of work on time tonight, I'll have a metric butt ton to say on the fan cast live feed tonight. I've been reserving most of my thoughts for that. But, since you want to be a jerk about it...

your again, taking my words to literally. Tell me what author you can jump on a forum and easily interact with? Tell me which ones you can say you talk to in a forum chatbox pretty much everyday if you really wanted? I'm not saying any of this is bad, and were getting drasticly off topic here...but my opinion "knowing" the author colors your opinion of the material. Period.

[Witch_Doctor]

Play nice guys.

[7oddisdead]

Sad part is....we are!

[FunkyDung]

She's far enough along in the pregnancy that the baby should make it...

Do I remember correctly that the baby is due in three weeks? If that's the case, the baby should be fully "baked". I'm a father of three (plus one in the oven), and I can assure folks that doctors and midwives tell parents that at 37 weeks (3 weeks before full term), the green light is given. Any time after that is not considered premature.

[Litmaster]

Two other points not yet brought up:

Michael's Not Stupid!
He makes this point twice to Victor when voicing his plans about the church surveillance, which kinda makes me think he is overcompensating for some inner doubts about his leadership skills. I noticed this was similar to how CJ several times makes the point about how 'selfless' her actions are, perhaps because of accusations, but also perhaps because of some inner doubts of her own in terms of whether or not she is a selfish leader. In this sense (the self-doubt), Michael and CJ have something in common.

To then to kick it up to a Meta-Psycho-Analytical framework, I would say that, given his status as the author and director (i.e., 'leader') of this story, and given that his two central 'leader' characters are both plagued with self-doubt.... I posit my theory that Kc himself is a depressed and lonely man possessed with self-loathing and inner torment. :nik:

Multiple Zombie Languages?
Anyone else notice that Datu only responded to CERTAIN Zombiglyphs, but not all of them? Grog has probably got ten thousand tin hat theories as to why, but here's mine: certain glyphs are oriented as commands towards certain types of zombies-- runners, jumpers, behemoths, little ones, etc. They don't all speak the same language, but rather different variants of Zombiglyph language... Chew on that one for a bit, you :tinfoil: wearing bastards!

[Red Shirt]

Someone get Litmaster his coffee, he be mad. He when all Daryl Dixon on us.

Or a Snickers. Those work too.


the last sentence there is the issue. Its unfair to judge the story on comparisons to our world. That's an issue for the reader, not the author. There's been enough of a separation of the two throughout the story (in my eyes) to make that a non issue.


It is for this very reason that when I am doing my research, that I can and do get a little fast and loose with facts and figures. I don't recall any particular specifics, but it has happened more than once. I will be chasing down and following paths of research through Wikipedia and various other outlets online and occasionally hit a wall of mights, kindof's, sortof's, and/or maybe's. Given this is in a fictional context... #becausezombies, I try to not feel bad about a little fudging when I try to contextualize my information in a way so makes sense in the story and forms a consistent and coherent hypothesis.

[Deacon_Tyler]

Todd and Litmaster, it is time to hug.

Closer....yeah that's it. Get those lips a little --- woah....okay, now some tongue...

[EpiEpee]

Do I remember correctly that the baby is due in three weeks? If that's the case, the baby should be fully "baked". I'm a father of three (plus one in the oven), and I can assure folks that doctors and midwives tell parents that at 37 weeks (3 weeks before full term), the green light is given. Any time after that is not considered premature.

Honestly, I don't remember when the last time we heard exactly when Lizzie was due, but if she's at 37 weeks, you're right that she's at term and can deliver at any time. Even if she's before that, they'll deliver the baby in circumstances like this where the baby's heart rate starts dropping. Outcomes are better all around because there's not much you can do for the baby while it's in utero, and delivery will cure the problems for the mom too.

[TacticalJHP]

Someone get Litmaster his coffee, he be mad. He when all Daryl Dixon on us.


Or a Snickers. Those work too.



http://youtu.be/wqaTG12jfF0






Todd and Litmaster, it is time to hug.

Closer....yeah that's it. Get those lips a little --- woah....okay, now some tongue...

Wrong. Just plain wrong.

[Cabbage Patch]

Just for fun I checked Cordova Street in Pasadena for churches. I only found one, Trinity Baptist Church at 1147 Cordova Street. It's a smallish church, but it isn't an exact match with the physical description of the church in this episode. Here's a picture from the front.
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3078&d=1394508180

[Elete23]

Hi guys, first post here, been a long time lurker. I just need to weigh in here on the "insta-language" controversy. People who are up in arms about it seem to think that it is more implausible than all the physical transformations we've seen in the zombies so far. I think it is pretty consistent with what we've seen and has nothing to with magic, the supernatural, or a hive mind.

Don't underestimate what the alteration of he physical makeup of the human brain can do to perception. If the zombification process can mutate a normal human into some undead supersoldier, is it really that hard to believe that Roberts found a mechanism to trigger parts of the brain when they view certain patterns? Obviously zombificaton changes the brain, if Roberts was able to fully understand how, he certainly could pull off a variety of tricks. Some symbols seem to convey a feeling (i.e. enter, or stop), perhaps the visual stimuli affects the re-wired zombie brain by activating the instinctual fear (stop) or pleasure (enter) centers automatically upon viewing those patterns. How do you get an address? If Roberts can figure out brain chemistry, he can certainly induce a sort of artificial dyslexia or some type of reading "disorder" that can easily be made into code when reverse engineered.

Of course all of is partially dependent on the theory that the infection is in fact a chemically created phenomenon that Roberts has likely devised himself, or at least has spent a great deal of time studying before the outbreak. He may not be patient zero, but that doesn't mean the whole thing wasn't his plan. Honestly that theory seems the least far fetched one as far as determining the cause of the outbreak.

[Kc]

I posit my theory that Kc himself is a depressed and lonely man possessed with self-loathing and inner torment. :nik:
!

I love reading these comments. Tonight, especially has been interesting, and being able to sit and interact with you all face to face. I feel that today has pulled the curtain back and I'm more exposed to you all. It's also unique timing because I believe this is one of the few times we've had what fans call story red flags. And, I think maybe people may be reacting differently because the series is ending soon and they doubt how much can be wrapped up in such a short amount of time.

That being said, perhaps at this time I should limit my exposure. (And btw, I know Lit was joking with his comment above, but quite the opposite! Happily married, love my job, my show, but also very critical of my work and force a very self-grueling work ethic). In the future, at least until the end, I'll refrain a bit more from interacting within the threads. I'll still jump in here or there, but perhaps I'm a little too hands on right now. The other comment before was right, I do read and react to the people on the forum, and there have been small influences; things I've included to clarify something or maybe in other ways I don't recognize. So, I won't be gone or anything, just a little less of a guide. I'll let the story elements unfold, and let people react how they want. I like constructive criticism, and maybe this will be more freeing, not having a looming feeling that something might effect me.

Who knows, maybe I won't really have fewer posts... but the sentiment is to let people theorize without me getting in the way :)

[beans]

Another great close to a chapter! I've 2 weeks to feast on speculations...initial thoughts are that Ink is a freakishly intelligent person so there may be some sort of sciencey explanation to Datu's mind control as part of his intelligent design.

On a side note, its interesting how some people conclude to occult, supernatural explanations on this story (and for many other stories and happenings around the world) because I think it says a lot about the human condition which isn't necessarily bad or good but it is something that's been apparent for as long as history's been recorded.

What I am excited for for next chapter is an intense, edge of your seat arc that I feel will top my personal favorite, the area rescue arc...I can still feel the chill of being in the mushy goo of human flesh!

[Deacon_Tyler]

Nano bots....it's got to be nano bots.

[Storm]

PREACH!!

Everyone seems to forget all the above, just because its semi-plausible via -physics- but its so damn true. Soon as we turn to a subject you can't really google, its magic.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- Arthur C. Clarke

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

Sorry, I have some trouble joining into the criticism about the symbols being words and/or commands to the zombies.

I remember us discussing a lot about an ant-analogy in respect to the zombos, when Randy dropped these bottles. Now I would like to make you remember these discussions again, because I have the feeling that many of have seemed to "accept" this kind of theory.
Ants "talk" or "communicate" by using hormons or shit telling everyone in the ant-family what to do - some simply for "follow this trail", others for "defend", again others "safe the ant-eggs", or "feed big Mom" etc. ... What if these symbols have the a similar effect on zombies? Their brains may get twisted by the z-agent, and by seeing symbols all across the place they simply follow these symbols, because there could be kind of a hard programming through the zombie-agent.

Or make it different: What, if those symbols are painted with colors which were enriched with certain hormons or fluids the zombies simply "scent". R2Da2 explicitely says that these symbols are not like explicit words, but about a certain meaning. He sees the symbols and "understands" something about them in a way that he cannot resist and thus follows "an order" as he understands it. Just like an ant smells a certain hormon in its surrounding and reacts accordingly. EDIT: FYI This hormone-enrichment is more than less falsified, 'cause one important detail slipped my mind; so no need to discuss it anymore. /EDIT

So - yes. Could be. I am looking forward to get more clues and see where this is leading.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Storm]

Hi.

Sorry, I have some trouble joining into the criticism about the symbols being words and/or commands to the zombies.

I remember us discussing a lot about an ant-analogy in respect to the zombos, when Randy dropped these bottles. Now I would like to make you remember these discussions again, because I have the feeling that many of have seemed to "accept" this kind of theory.
Ants "talk" or "communicate" by using hormons or shit telling everyone in the ant-family what to do - some simply for "follow this trail", others for "defend", again others "safe the ant-eggs", or "feed big Mom" etc. ... What if these symbols have the a similar effect on zombies? Their brains may get twisted by the z-agent, and by seeing symbols all across the place they simply follow these symbols, because there could be kind of a hard programming through the zombie-agent.

Or make it different: What, if those symbols are painted with colors which were enriched with certain hormons or fluids the zombies simply "scent". R2Da2 explicitely says that these symbols are not like explicit words, but about a certain meaning. He sees the symbols and "understands" something about them in a way that he cannot resist and thus follows "an order" as he understands it. Just like an ant smells a certain hormon in its surrounding and reacts accordingly.

So - yes. Could be. I am looking forward to get more clues and see where this is leading.

Best wishes!
Liam

Back to the synaesthesia we go... At least I'd love to see that play a part... Some man made form that would be the same for everyone... It would have to alter their brains though, but people have already suggested that, so why not...
Synaesthesia might be able to explain at least some of it...Or maybe I just say so because I can imagine how Datu feels about those symbols... Though I don't feel a sudden urge to enter a room just because it's got a letter on the door.
But I will immediately think of the color red if you mention Saturday, and feel that you're completely wrong if you say it's not... Quite funny actually, I always feel an urge to correct someone when I read about other synaesthetes experiences if they are different from my own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtO4CSzAyxE

[clem131]

At least they have the A-team on this one. King Datu the resourceful, Vic the Victorious and the Matugun. Oh yea Michael is there, hopefully not distracted by a red-beard or a shine light.

When Burt described his DIY armored vehicle, the A-team montage is the first thing I thought of. I imagine Burt coming to rescue our three caballeros, mowing zombies down while the A-team score plays in the background.

[clem131]

^I'm on my phone, so I'm not quoting all that. Look at litmasters second big post.

the last sentence there is the issue. Its unfair to judge the story on comparisons to our world. That's an issue for the reader, not the author. There's been enough of a separation of the two throughout the story (in my eyes) to make that a non issue.

I disagree:
"Zombies suck in the story because zombies don't exist in our world": that's judging the story in comparison to our world.
What people are saying instead has been very circumstantiated. Everything Litmaster quotes is not an issue because it's internally consistent: biological experimentation cannot, in our world, cause people to become enormous, jump high etc (yet). Who cares? In the story world, it can. Now it seems it can teach you a language. That's different because it's not a question of growing more muscles but a question of connecting your neurons in a specific way valid for you and you only to make you understand a new language. Personally, I think this is just what it seems but we'll see it's something else, so basically we just have to wait.
Besides: the fact this is an issue for a certain amount of people (i.e. not one person only) already makes it an issue for those people, even if they can't quite point the finger at why or you can't quite dispel the issue for them. To take another example, KC said he can't understand the hatred some fans feel towards CJ, but the fact remains his script and his cut and his show has generated hatred towards CJ, whether he or we can or can't explain why.

another problem, and this will sound like criticism...is KC is far too accessible and answers too many questions. What little hs said about this chapter so far(in my opinion) he shouldn't have. It goes into a lot of my feelings on why LOST got the hate it did for the ending. The creators coloring the fans opinion outside the show material.

I'm done for now. This little keyboard sucks when you have a lot to say..
I'm with you on both things. On the LOST question, I'm not sure what "The creators coloring the fans opinion outside the show material" means, but if it means they added stuff from the forums to make the fans happy, that's more of what happened on BSG, not on LOST. But that's for the Everything Else section perhaps :D

[clem131]

Lit, two days and there was no one left in LA, I do not think that was enough time for them to be eaten or bitten. We have evidence that the gas itself can kill and or induce change. I figure everyone left is special with some partial resistance. The people left in LA have been preselected for some phenotype that runs in families.

Latch & Scratch
Saul & Tanya
Tommy & Kelly
Samantha & Hope

I do not feel like a Lizzy & Nick Rivers link is too far out there. Although it could be misdirection for people like me that grab every lose thread and try to link them, but I do not think it is another Puck & Puck incident.

I don't know how family names propagate in the US, but Lizzie's not married and her father's family name was thus Fabre.

[Footbutt]

Also, a vast tunnel system will displace a LOT of dirt. There would have been hills of dirt from the inside of the tunnels.

my initial thought on the underground tunnels is this:
they were already there.

in the DVR newcast KC lists the "metropolitan areas" such as: LA, San Diego, Detroit, Houston, Chicago, New York
There were even "real nasty" ones in Hawaii. Some of the places listed have subways. Others, i'm sure, have natural formations.
Hawaii hass tons of volcano stuff going on.

so i think the tunnel(s) under the church had been there before the outbreak. Even though they had plenty of time to dig it--> Worker Bees, not whining union guys could have made it, hehe.

[Storm]

The tunnels are probably build by the great race of Yith, or the great old ones... Yes, I'm bringing back the flying squid from season 3...
Ink tattooed himself with symbols and texts from the Necronomicon and used the killings of his wife and her lover to summon death and destructi.......Never mind, no magic...
And just a thought, but... Now that they know that the rainbow fan means STOP, they should totally go and spray paint it all over the colony's walls! :)

[EatMyShorts]

Holy crap! After being slightly annoyed with him for the first 42 chapters, Datu has won me over. I think the zombie virus has killed off the whiny part of his brain and now he's a bad ass. Well done!

[Grognaurd]

I don't know how family names propagate in the US, but Lizzie's not married and her father's family name was thus Fabre.

I agree, that point does not quite fit. But, there are divorces, children born out of wedlock, a maternal grandfather.

The operative is Nick vs. Nicholas. Maybe it was not family, but a mentor she respected. Hell, Maybe Nick helped her understand that she does not like other peope's problems and make the change in her life and get out of her father's shadow

As just an additional bit of info, last night on the we're alive Fancast, KC said the one we saw at the hospital did not come from the jail. So, now we know that there were two places where they were created.

[Grognaurd]

I love reading... Who knows, maybe I won't really have fewer posts... but the sentiment is to let people theorize without me getting in the way :)

I think you should channel Tanya and remember it is your choice... Do what you want to do. Have fun and enjoy the ride, we only get one shot at life and no one ever engraves their tomb stone with "I wish I spent more time at work."

[Gnex]

I love reading these comments. Tonight, especially has been interesting, and being able to sit and interact with you all face to face. I feel that today has pulled the curtain back and I'm more exposed to you all. It's also unique timing because I believe this is one of the few times we've had what fans call story red flags. And, I think maybe people may be reacting differently because the series is ending soon and they doubt how much can be wrapped up in such a short amount of time.

That being said, perhaps at this time I should limit my exposure. (And btw, I know Lit was joking with his comment above, but quite the opposite! Happily married, love my job, my show, but also very critical of my work and force a very self-grueling work ethic). In the future, at least until the end, I'll refrain a bit more from interacting within the threads. I'll still jump in here or there, but perhaps I'm a little too hands on right now. The other comment before was right, I do read and react to the people on the forum, and there have been small influences; things I've included to clarify something or maybe in other ways I don't recognize. So, I won't be gone or anything, just a little less of a guide. I'll let the story elements unfold, and let people react how they want. I like constructive criticism, and maybe this will be more freeing, not having a looming feeling that something might effect me.

Who knows, maybe I won't really have fewer posts... but the sentiment is to let people theorize without me getting in the way :)

"A Frog can't turn back into a Tadpole KC!!!" :D

[UndeadSweeper]

You know guys, can we really call these creatures zombie anymore? If you think about it, we haven't seen one come back from the dead. Most of the ones we have seen turn have done it while they are injury/bitten and then they turn. Once a person dead whether they are turned or not they don't come back. And it got weird call them zombies when Datu spoken of being in the back seat while the body continue doing what it was doing.

[Gnex]

"A story of survival"

[Merlin1274]

Zombie is just a term for someone not in control of their actions. Hollywood change the true meaning of it. U don't have to be undead to be a zombie. I had a few zombie moments back in my heavy drinking days.

[Storm]

"A story of survival"

Was just gonna say that... Or... My Words would've been:
They're Alive - a Story of Survival.

[LiamKerrington]

You know guys, can we really call these creatures zombie anymore? If you think about it, we haven't seen one come back from the dead. Most of the ones we have seen turn have done it while they are injury/bitten and then they turn. Once a person dead whether they are turned or not they don't come back. And it got weird call them zombies when Datu spoken of being in the back seat while the body continue doing what it was doing.

This is the Zombiepodcast titled "We're Alive - A Story of Survival". Also keep in mind that zombies are undead in some themes or genres, while zombies are living creatures in other, which really depends on the source of the zombie-factor. Is it a zombie-agent working like bacteria or a virus or spores from wherever? Or is it just magic working?
So, yeah: I stick with it. The monsters of WA are zombies - different kind of, but still zombos ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[UndeadSweeper]

Zombie is just a term for someone not in control of their actions. Hollywood change the true meaning of it. U don't have to be undead to be a zombie. I had a few zombie moments back in my heavy drinking days.

That odd part, some are not in control of their actions but there a few who seem to be in the driver seat, eg the smart ones. What do we call those?

[Grognaurd]

One thing that voodoo, Romero's Shamblers or 28 days later Zoombies have in common is the loss of self. I think this qualifies

[Gnex]

I don't know what all the fuss is about........

Next episode our tunnel divers will stomp around in the sewers until they find 4 turtles being taught by a rat. Then Kelly will just Beam the guys Up to dunbar from the tunnel...... at which point they will put on their storm trooper armor and prepare to invade Ink...... Michael will ask Pegs to marry him and she will run around with her ring calling it precious and showing it to Mrs. Magoo........ Once they find Ink's compound they will need to get inside, at which point Victor will remember that he has a magical whistle around his neck, He will use it to summon a Dragon to smash down the door....... Then Burt will run inside and pull out his BFG(AKA Shirley 2.0)...... at this point Scratch will Show up in a Tardis........ errr excuse me...... with Tardust. There will be an epic shoot out in Slow motion where bullets bend around object and such..... miraculously no one will be injured and everyone will run out of bullets at the same time...... at which point they will all break out into song and dance, then Ink will give a long Monologue followed by a tap dance routine....... Then they will all hug it out and agree to live in harmony...... And They All Lived Happily Ever After........ THE END!!!

[Jannit]

I sure hope this isn't the case. Last I checked, Los Angeles has a population of about 3.8 MILLION people, and to have such an improbable occurrence as this would really stretch the tenuous cords of believability. We've already has the improbable situation of Scratch knowing who Angel was, and of Michael meeting back up with Randy at the water works, and to have another pre-outbreak relationship manifest this late in the story would get me crinkling my nose...

Don’t forget Saul and Tanya finding one another. Or Scratch rescuing Latch. We’ve seen a number of these sorts of cases already, as you mentioned.
Do we know where Lizzy worked prior to the outbreak? As a psychologist, it seems logical that she’d have reason to associate with people in mental health facilities and if “Nick” is either her father or, as Grog mentioned, a mentor of some sort it is plausible that they could’ve known one another. Unlikely? Sure. But weirder things have happened!


Sounds like Datu is experiencing dissociative feelings, or a detachment from his own self, when he talks about watching from the back of his mind.

Just for kicks: There is an interesting connection to Haitian Voodoo zombies and dissociative drugs. One ingredient found in the zombie powder by Dr. Wade Davis (The Serpent and the Rainbow) was tetrodotoxin, found in puffer fish. The other was the plant datura or jimsonweed (Zombie Cucumber). This plants can make a person prone to suggestion in addition to dissociative feelings. http://zombie.wikia.com/wiki/Zombies

Now, just waiting for someone to make a :tinfoil: connection based on the fact that the first four letters of datura are d,a,t and u.

That sort of sounds like our missing fan symbol that seems to mean stop! It’s likely unrelated but that’s the first thing I thought of when you said this.


Hi.

Sorry, I have some trouble joining into the criticism about the symbols being words and/or commands to the zombies.

I remember us discussing a lot about an ant-analogy in respect to the zombos, when Randy dropped these bottles. Now I would like to make you remember these discussions again, because I have the feeling that many of have seemed to "accept" this kind of theory.
Ants "talk" or "communicate" by using hormons or shit telling everyone in the ant-family what to do - some simply for "follow this trail", others for "defend", again others "safe the ant-eggs", or "feed big Mom" etc. ... What if these symbols have the a similar effect on zombies? Their brains may get twisted by the z-agent, and by seeing symbols all across the place they simply follow these symbols, because there could be kind of a hard programming through the zombie-agent.

Or make it different: What, if those symbols are painted with colors which were enriched with certain hormons or fluids the zombies simply "scent". R2Da2 explicitely says that these symbols are not like explicit words, but about a certain meaning. He sees the symbols and "understands" something about them in a way that he cannot resist and thus follows "an order" as he understands it. Just like an ant smells a certain hormon in its surrounding and reacts accordingly.

So - yes. Could be. I am looking forward to get more clues and see where this is leading.

Best wishes!
Liam

While the pheromone idea seems reasonable-ish we’ve gotten confirmation that it doesn’t work already, haven’t we? I thought the list where Datu found the address was a photocopy of the original. Regardless, the markings from the prison weren’t originals so the idea of a scent of some sort doesn’t work.

[clem131]

I agree, that point does not quite fit. But, there are divorces, children born out of wedlock, a maternal grandfather.


I know, it's just that it was the third or fourth message about this and no one mentioned Lizzie's last name not being Rivers yet and it was driving me crazy :P

[TacticalJHP]

You know guys, can we really call these creatures zombie anymore? If you think about it, we haven't seen one come back from the dead. Most of the ones we have seen turn have done it while they are injury/bitten and then they turn. Once a person dead whether they are turned or not they don't come back. And it got weird call them zombies when Datu spoken of being in the back seat while the body continue doing what it was doing.

I mentioned this last night in the chat of the live show.

"What if they are not zombies, but this is all a form of mass mind control?"

To further expand on what I mean (since i can type more here) is that they are not the traditional zombies.


They didn't get back up from the dead.
They do not have rotting flesh.
Their organs seem to work just fine, and are in fact required to function for them to live.
It's not a "head shot kills them" deal, but bullets and explosions will do the same tasks.
They are follow orders.
They set traps.
They dig tunnels.
They speak, albeit are rather bashful about it.



But, there are things that makes them seem to be traditional zombies.


They have a dietary selection that prefers human flesh.
They reproduce by biting and scratching.
They cannot control their own actions.



So what if they are not a traditional "zombie." That was implanted in episode 1 by Saul saying that they are Zombies, but what if that was just the best explanation at the time. It is entirely possible that something else is causing the outbreak of normal ones, and then of course we have Ink with his genetic experiments to make the effed up ones.

It could be mass mind control, genetic experiment gone wrong, or bio-terror.

Not ruling out "zombies" just keeping my mind open....

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.


While the pheromone idea seems reasonable-ish we’ve gotten confirmation that it doesn’t work already, haven’t we? I thought the list where Datu found the address was a photocopy of the original. Regardless, the markings from the prison weren’t originals so the idea of a scent of some sort doesn’t work.

Yeah, this detail has slipped my mind. Thank you for pointing me towards it. Certainly - while looking at photocpies there is no chance that a certain scent my play into it as well; so in that regard my thoughts are proven to be wrong (to a certain degree though, see below). I am sorry.

And yet I add two buts:

But no 1: R2Da2's reactions to the symbols on copies or the "natural" ones are evident. Seeing and "understanding" them may (not necessarily will) indicate that the zombie-agent changes the way the brain functions and thus makes the brain operate based on some weird way of "hardwiring" just like different insects react to certain conditions in the environment.
But no 2: While R2Da2 reacts to the pictures on the photocopy with a serious, short-lived headache, he is totally out of a control for a short period of time when he faces a sign at the church. Why is that so? Because his zombification-process has advanced even further, or because other factors besides the optical impression have to be considered as well (aka smell, scent, hormons, gases), or maybe both?

Anyway: This is very interesting. So I would like to approach it much broader:

- When the zombocalypse kicked in, Ink was in the police van. And he was already covered in those tattoos. Zombies attacked his van. And back then we wondered why they stopped attacking the van and/or Ink. Probably because they "understood" the symbols on Ink's head? With the latest "news" this assumption has certainly become more certain.

- We also know right from the start of the zombocalypse that them zombos behave much more based on instinct than on conscious decisions. But we know that consciously made decisions and performed actions play into their behaviour as well. Regardless of that they react to human pheromons almost automatically (instinct). While hunting they apply all natural actions - attacking in numbers, in small numbers or as solitair creatures most of them (except for the Behemoths) use the surrounding or environment like beasts of prey do - so certainly a combination of conscious understanding, working with the environment AND instinct (remember the first encounters between zombies and Saul and Angel? It was not only mindless attacks already back then!).

- Also we know that Ink's army-zombies follow orders - they have created ambushs, captured victims, left alone solitairy easy prey, orchestrated attacks etc.

- Considering the huge amount of potential zombies in the area of LA alone it is kind of astonishing how few zombies there were right from the beginning.

- We must not forget: Not every zombie from the beginning was part of Ink's army; this is especially true for the zombie-hotspots in other areas, the many Little Ones from Boulder and Irwin, Hawaii, the sea, and quite certainly many of the early waves at the Colony. (Arguable, though, if we consider Ink being the one who started it all ...)

- Finally we know from R2Da2 that "understanding" or "reading" the symbols used by Ink does not require any learning to do so while being a zombie.

So the question would be: How or why do the zombies (only from Ink's army?) "understand" these things?

Theory a) The zombie-agent activates core information in the long-term-memory of the zombies - like esoteric or religious information/ symbols -, which the humans learned or at least glimpsed at over the years before the zombocalypse; such information focusses a lot more on emotions or emotional reactions instead of analytical thinking. With the zombie-agent this information along with the emotional concepts behind them has started to surface in dominant areas of the mind, which would make the zombies follow "orders" or "these symbols" much easier; this could also mean that probably many zombies were killed by Ink's zombies, because they were not able of understanding these symbols properly. R2Da2 points in that direction, because R2Da2 is the only one from the group of survivors about whom we know that he is a religious man and who therefore has put a lot of effort into understanding certain religious symbols - but I am aware that this is the first case we have making it hard to verify this theory; also the behemoths in the prison seem to add some problems to this way of looking at it.

Theory b) The zombie-agent modifies certain parts of the memory- or understanding-centers in the human brain in a way that the zombos' brains react automatically, kind of "more instinctive" to pre-programmed symbols or arrangements of sign-elements (lines, dots, waves, circles, squares ...) just like insects react to certain smells, light-patterns, temperatures, etc. - I know: there is little evidence (if any) available to support such an idea.

And yet both theories are kind of "scientific" approaches. And I could imagine that any of them, maybe even both, could be the theme behind all things WA-zombos ... Or something else. Thinking of it in these ways simply reveals that you can try a more or less "scientific" thinking towards these unexpected turns of events without considering fancy magic or some abra kadabra hokuspokus or shit regarding the understanding or reading of symbols ... I certainly am curious what it will be in the end, if we receive any explanations at all ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Kc]

ok, why lie about what I said? I said nothing about kc's feelings or being less critical...Im ok with being the outcast on this subject, and im done with defending my position. but if your going to "poke fun" at me, or use me as a method for delivering your own personal agenda...get the facts right

and enough with the milkman thing. really starting to piss me off...

I think he was commenting about my comment. And yes. Let's nix the "milkman" stuff.

[UndeadSweeper]

Liam, could the "understanding" or "reading" the symbols be like a color blindness thing? When you are color blind you can't see certain color but what if it the opposite and you can see colors that other cant. It can heighten sense. For all you know the virus was suppose improve human life.

[LiamKerrington]

Liam, could the "understanding" or "reading" the symbols be like a color blindness thing? When you are color blind you can't see certain color but what if it the opposite and you can see colors that other cant. It can heighten sense. For all you know the virus was suppose improve human life.

Very good point - especially if you consider the changed/-ing eyes of the zombs. I like that!

[Elisa]

I love reading these comments. Tonight, especially has been interesting, and being able to sit and interact with you all face to face. I feel that today has pulled the curtain back and I'm more exposed to you all. It's also unique timing because I believe this is one of the few times we've had what fans call story red flags. And, I think maybe people may be reacting differently because the series is ending soon and they doubt how much can be wrapped up in such a short amount of time.

That being said, perhaps at this time I should limit my exposure. (And btw, I know Lit was joking with his comment above, but quite the opposite! Happily married, love my job, my show, but also very critical of my work and force a very self-grueling work ethic). In the future, at least until the end, I'll refrain a bit more from interacting within the threads. I'll still jump in here or there, but perhaps I'm a little too hands on right now. The other comment before was right, I do read and react to the people on the forum, and there have been small influences; things I've included to clarify something or maybe in other ways I don't recognize. So, I won't be gone or anything, just a little less of a guide. I'll let the story elements unfold, and let people react how they want. I like constructive criticism, and maybe this will be more freeing, not having a looming feeling that something might effect me.

Who knows, maybe I won't really have fewer posts... but the sentiment is to let people theorize without me getting in the way :)

NOOOOOOOOOO KC just keep being and doing what you do. This is why we love the story too because of your interaction with the fanatics aka us. That's we we were all LOST and BSG fans. Don't stop partaking in the fun :)

[Deacon_Tyler]

NOOOOOOOOOO KC just keep being and doing what you do. This is why we love the story too because of your interaction with the fanatics aka us. That's we we were all LOST and BSG fans. Don't stop partaking in the fun :)

I agree. THE KC MUST REMAIN AND ALL HEADS SHALL BE BOWED IN DEFERENCE WHEN WORDS ARE SPOKEN BY THE KC.

[Hoff4D]

Alright...so....I was wrong. By Datu's consistent pain at viewing and understanding of a 'command' not 'translation' I was off on the theory that it was phillipino tribal stuff. Whoops. Let's see, where to start? I've been out of the foil hat game for a few months (and theorizing in general) so let me dust off the hat and give it a shot again.

A lot of popular things in the thread, just want to say I second them. Scratch probably got into the Colony and heard the cry for help from Tanya, that can't be good. I mean, Burt keeps laying his fears about giving locations away over radio, even if its secured, doesnt that plant the seed of doubt for us in the landline? And a perfect point for Burt to bust in, in a few episodes to save them with Riley and blast Scratch away with a hilarious 'told you so'?

To that point, hell, what's to say Ink doesn't know what's going on? He always seems to? Maybe he's watching the colony, and tails Scratch to Cain, and we have an epic battle royale? Scratch attempting to take the baby due to some crazy "I-wanna-be-a-mom" thing inside of her, as Ink busts in and is like "A HYBRID BABY! PERFECT FOR TESTING!" (Saul's immunity/elevated levels, and Lizzy's presumable normalness). All this and Burt's silently listening to the radio for something like this to go down. And to TOP IT ALL OFF, we got crazy Entwalker-Behemoth walking around all tree-barked out. It practically writes itself, no?

Or maybe Ink just shows up and tells them to give him the baby and no one else gets hurt. He goes all Rumpelstiltskin on us? (Yeah, I looked it up, that's spelled right dammit

Alright, the tunnels...Big stretches here, but we know the zeds dont like the haze...we know the haze is coming from the cracks...Maybe they banded together to dig some tunnels to re-route the haze away from where they want/need to be? Or, Ink banded these things together to reDIRECT the haze to wherever he desires. Letting him conduct tests as he sees fit. Try a few different drugs, give 'em the haze, how'd they react? Maybe Ink really is still trying to solve the 'how do we overcome this plague?', That's far-fetched, but c'mon, supreme multiple-disorder anti-hero. Part of him wants to eat us, part of him wants to save us from the outbreak! This doesnt quite explain the zeds going INTO the tunnel, since they avoid the haze, but c'mon, i'm trying here.

Now, since I was wrong about Datu having previously knowledge of this "Language", and I still maintain Kc's grounding by some science, I want to try and figure out these 'commands' via symbols. I've got two sketchy theories.

1 - The virus unlocks something in our brains, some sensory perceptions being heightened. We've seen that the zeds smell better, generally, what's to say they dont SEE better (or differently). Cats see infrared, we cannot. We all accept the rapid muscle development, why not some rods/cones development. The symbols aren't as much about what WE see (some lines/colors) but what the Zeds see, perhaps some crazy vibrant light structure existing in wavelengths outside our perception. There's light going on all around us that we can't see, what's to say these aren't written in some form that Datu can now percieve? Not sure how this links to him feeling commanded/in the backseat, but it was the first thing that came to mind when the language theory was debunked.

2 - I have to go back to listen to when Datu was attacked, but he was left alive. That seemed odd at the time, but we kind of just glossed over it when he seemed within inches of death. That means the little ones that attacked left him at least breathing, no? Well, we've heard Little Ones speak, perhaps they're capable of hypnosis, as taught by Ink. Hypnosis would explain his compulsion to follow seemingly meaningless triggers. He sees one thing STOP. He sees another COME IN. He takes a backseat in his mind and cannot stop himself. This theory lacks in the idea that ALL of the zeds would have to be hypnotized at some point, or at least Ink's army. Perhaps in the video of Ink being busted out of the van he took that moment and hypnotized the Zeds, which is why the listened? This is out there, but throw in some drugs Ink could've perfected that affect someone's susceptibiltiy to suggestion (As previously mentioned by Witch_Doctor, forgot the plant/drug, just that he mentioned it started with d-a-t-u). If he gets the virus to effect the subject suggestion, it could be some form of hypnosis. Which would be why they dont 'translate' they just 'command'. MOREOVER, Ink planned Datu's attack, and wanted him to bring Michael to the church. This was all a set up....

:tinfoil:

[Hoff4D]

Alright, the tunnels..

:tinfoil:




I forgot one thing....The tunnels? I assume they're not lit-up. If the virus DOES open up some sensory perception in our eyes to more wavelengths, perhaps they see perfectly fine in the tunnels. Thus, datu will/can as well, and Michael/Victor will be going blind down there. Presents quite the problem if it's an intricate tunnel system and Datu dies sometime while they're down and Michael/Vic have to feel their way out....

[UndeadSweeper]

I forgot one thing....The tunnels? I assume they're not lit-up. If the virus DOES open up some sensory perception in our eyes to more wavelengths, perhaps they see perfectly fine in the tunnels. Thus, datu will/can as well, and Michael/Victor will be going blind down there. Presents quite the problem if it's an intricate tunnel system and Datu dies sometime while they're down and Michael/Vic have to feel their way out....

I'm thinking Datu will use himself as a distract to allow the other two get out safely. We know that they can tell that Datu is turning and won't attack him, unless there another loose cannon number one in the mix. But I think Ink will be blindside by this, as Michael said why wouldn't he think they would know the address, all he will see is Datu following the signs left by him. We might even here a talk between the two if possible.

With Cain, I think Scratch will get the message at the colony but head there to get some leverage for a trade for Peggs. The only thing is Saul unknowingly going to call Burt and Riley for back-up to help with the operation. Burt is going to be willing to help since they care for the couple dearly. So instead of them looking for her, she will come to them.

[Verse]

Bet "Land of the Blind" is the next title chapter.

[UndeadSweeper]

Bet "Land of the Blind" is the next title chapter.

I will take that bet. I'm guessing Life and Death. ;-)

[Hoff4D]

I will take that bet. I'm guessing Life and Death. ;-)

'Do you see what I see?'

[Verse]

Three Blind Mice?

[Hoff4D]

Three Blind Mice?

See how they run?

[Gooer]

Wonder if there'll be another poll about what the next title will be....

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Wonder if there'll be another poll about what the next title will be....

What about the title ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Tunnels_And_Trolls_7.5.jpg

[Gnex]

Next Chapter title "Which way was the Starbucks?"

[LiamKerrington]

For those liking Pegs:

The Cheerful, the Vermin, and the Scratched.

For those not liking Pegs:

The Pain, the Paining, and the Pained.

Best wishes
Liam

[tonyhind86]

Chapter 44: Confrontations

Michael, Datu and Victor come head to head with Ink, the Colonists come head to head with Scratch and Tardust, Saul comes head to head with the behemoth at the hospital

[Gooer]

Chapter 44: Confrontations

Michael, Datu and Victor come head to head with Ink, the Colonists come head to head with Scratch and Tardust, Saul comes head to head with the behemoth at the hospital

Bit early for that, maybe for the finale or summit.

[Gnex]

Chapter 44: That's just my Baby Daddy

[tonyhind86]

Bit early for that, maybe for the finale or summit.

Nah, that'll be the musical episode :nik:

[Gooer]

Nah, that'll be the musical episode :nik:

Bonus Chapter: Hopes and Dreams

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Ok, here's one title for the (former) RPG players:

*Victor's voice*: Chapter 44 - "Hey, hm, Michael - where's did you put the automap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-map#Automap)?"

[Deacon_Tyler]

For those liking Pegs:

The Cheerful, the Vermin, and the Scratched.

For those not liking Pegs:

The Pain, the Paining, and the Pained.

Best wishes
Liam

None may dislike THE PEGS, whose name is whispered in hushed and clipped tones among the pantheons of the living and dead.

I was really hoping that the cause of the zombies would be nanobots; they can be programmed with language, communication and can potentially rewrite DNA. Since they are tiny machines, they could even assimilate foreign matter to accommodate for the increased size and density of a behemoth or a little one, using solar power as conservation of energy.

What I'm guessing the answer will be though is something like toxoplasmosis or fungi, which have been known to alter perceptions. BUT....rewriting dna incredibly fast results in the problem of conservation of energy. Not only would it take a lot of energy to make a turned little one's skin turn rock hard in seconds, but it would create a LOT of heat as that energy is expended.

Likewise with a behemoth - where is the mass coming from? It reminds me of the Hulk - gamma radiation has enough potential energy to actually create matter, which is a kinda sorta weak science explanation. But in reality, for any of WA's zombies or monsters to exist, it would not only take a predetermined blueprint of the new DNA, but millions of calories to accomplish.

Of course, it could also be demons :p

[Jannit]

None may dislike THE PEGS, whose name is whispered in hushed and clipped tones among the pantheons of the living and dead.

I was really hoping that the cause of the zombies would be nanobots; they can be programmed with language, communication and can potentially rewrite DNA. Since they are tiny machines, they could even assimilate foreign matter to accommodate for the increased size and density of a behemoth or a little one, using solar power as conservation of energy.

What I'm guessing the answer will be though is something like toxoplasmosis or fungi, which have been known to alter perceptions. BUT....rewriting dna incredibly fast results in the problem of conservation of energy. Not only would it take a lot of energy to make a turned little one's skin turn rock hard in seconds, but it would create a LOT of heat as that energy is expended.
Likewise with a behemoth - where is the mass coming from? It reminds me of the Hulk - gamma radiation has enough potential energy to actually create matter, which is a kinda sorta weak science explanation. But in reality, for any of WA's zombies or monsters to exist, it would not only take a predetermined blueprint of the new DNA, but millions of calories to accomplish.

Of course, it could also be demons :p

Y'know, this observation is only due to Kc's reaction in the FanCast, but as much as I would have otherwise been all over this idea of yours I've got a feeling it's something else. Kc was asked about people being able to learn the "zombie language" and he really hummed and hawed over answering that one for a while. To me it implies that this is a possibility as it wasn't an outright "no" like it was with the nanobot idea. As one of our lovely hosts brought up at the beginning of the cast, maybe the humans are able to use the symbols against the zombies such as the Stop one Datu found.

Still a cool idea!

[Storm]

Chapter 44: Michael, Victor, and Datu are walking around in the land of the living dead, finding lotsa clues about Ink, and at one point Ink himself, WHO escapes. Meanwhile, CJ and Pegs are setting up stuff at that lake thing...
Chapter 45: More colony 2.0 stuff with Pegs and CJ. Cliffhanger will contain more Scratchness, maybe some Burtness too.
Chapter 46: Burt and Riley drive to the hospital, we go back to Michael and the pals in the tunnels, they finally find their way out, Vic dies and Michael escapes with Datu, heading to the colony.

Chapter 47: Seing that everybody's left Michael listens to Tanya's message on the phone and takes Datu to the hospital, where Scratch and Tardust are also located. Before going there though, he contacts CJ and Pegs, Pegs flies back to LA without one-legged chinese dictator. Cliffhanger: Randy shows up!
Chapter 48: Everyone's gathered at the hospital where everything will take place. People WHO will die are: Saul, Riley, Datu (Michael gives him the syringe), Scratch, and Kelly. Ink will be there too, and Randy will somehow help Michael kill him, after more freaky stuff's been revealed. At the end, Pegs flies the remaining people to the lake, and that's the END!
..........
I have no idea why I want the rest of the season to focus on this one day, but well... :)

[Deacon_Tyler]

Y'know, this observation is only due to Kc's reaction in the FanCast, but as much as I would have otherwise been all over this idea of yours I've got a feeling it's something else. Kc was asked about people being able to learn the "zombie language" and he really hummed and hawed over answering that one for a while. To me it implies that this is a possibility as it wasn't an outright "no" like it was with the nanobot idea. As one of our lovely hosts brought up at the beginning of the cast, maybe the humans are able to use the symbols against the zombies such as the Stop one Datu found.

Still a cool idea!

At long as it doesn't turn out to be something hokey and impossible like a protozoa, bacteria or virus, I reckon I will accept anything.

[Witch_Doctor]

Tunnel: Micheal describes the opening as being pulled up and jetting outwards from the inside. Also, no mention of removed dirt. Maybe it wasn't dug! Something came from underground!

Lizzy undergoing surgery: Of all of the surgery that has taken place in this story, will she and/or the baby be the only one/s to to need a blood transfusion? Who's gonna donate?

Checking out Cordova: The second time in this story when the survivors are working on a water supply issue and decide to investigate where the zombies are hiding at the same time. In both instances, they don't plan to be there long. Just enough time to 'see where they are going'. Also, they find themselves surrounded and decide to hide in the worst possible, yet only available, hiding place. (The zombie hole to Hell and the pile of zombie food bodies.)

What does it feel like to turn? I always wondered what happens to the person-inside during turning. It's chilling to think about. Especially the smart ones. Are they torn or tormented? I've experienced that 'back-seat of the mind' feeling myself. (No, I wasn't on drugs.) I was on the floor on all fours, under a table, balling my eyes out over the passing of someone dear to me. Or you can try this experiment.. http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/extrasensory-perceptions/out-of-body-experience.htm


Trap, Help or Happenstance?: Micheal seems to suspect that the Randy Bottle Incident was either a trap leading them to a location where they would be attacked (or perhaps the zombies assumed the survivors figure out where to go). The only thing that doesn't line up is that they found the address to Raydon Labs AT Raydon Labs. This makes the trap idea seem less plausible. So, maybe the Raydon Labs address was the location of the shopping supplies and Cordova address is where they are to be delivered. If this is the case, then maybe it is true that Randy was helping the survivors by biting Datu. OR, maybe he's setting a bigger trap. Difficult to see, the future. Always in motion. - Yoda Jenkins Or, maybe it was just fortuitous.


Magic Writing or Superstitious Writing on the wall?: 800 years ago the Black Death was believed to have supernatural origins. It took time for the truth to be revealed. For millions, it never reveled, but it was a natural thing, regardless of how it seemed or what they believed.

Zombie Existentialists: What makes one a zombie? Being undead? Being under the spell of a puppet master? Not having control of your own will? Mice with the Toxoplasma Gondii parasite are effectually controlled by it to lose their fear of cats in order to be eaten by them. The parasite reproduces in the cat's intestines, gets pooped out and then infects other mice. Over and over again. Ophiocodyceps unilateralis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis) does something similar to ants. It affects the ants' behavior, compelling it to perch on high leaves, which makes it a good target for birds that will eat it and continue the cycle. Not saying that the zombie agent is a parasite, nanobots or Elder Ones jism. Just that what ever it is it compels human's behavior. The symbols that control Datu, natural or artificial seems to work this way when he says that they 'mean' or 'feel like'. The only part that doesn't fall inline with this is the address. But time will tell.

[LiamKerrington]

Tunnel: Micheal describes the opening as being pulled up and jetting outwards from the inside. Also, no mention of removed dirt. Maybe it wasn't dug! Something came from underground!

Lizzy undergoing surgery: Of all of the surgery that has taken place in this story, will she and/or the baby be the only one/s to to need a blood transfusion? Who's gonna donate?

Checking out Cordova: The second time in this story when the survivors are working on a water supply issue and decide to investigate where the zombies are hiding at the same time. In both instances, they don't plan to be there long. Just enough time to 'see where they are going'. Also, they find themselves surrounded and decide to hide in the worst possible, yet only available, hiding place. (The zombie hole to Hell and the pile of zombie food bodies.)

What does it feel like to turn? I always wondered what happens to the person-inside during turning. It's chilling to think about. Especially the smart ones. Are they torn or tormented? I've experienced that 'back-seat of the mind' feeling myself. (No, I wasn't on drugs.) I was on the floor on all fours, under a table, balling my eyes out over the passing of someone dear to me. Or you can try this experiment.. http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/extrasensory-perceptions/out-of-body-experience.htm


Trap, Help or Happenstance?: Micheal seems to suspect that the Randy Bottle Incident was either a trap leading them to a location where they would be attacked (or perhaps the zombies assumed the survivors figure out where to go). The only thing that doesn't line up is that they found the address to Raydon Labs AT Raydon Labs. This makes the trap idea seem less plausible. So, maybe the Raydon Labs address was the location of the shopping supplies and Cordova address is where they are to be delivered. If this is the case, then maybe it is true that Randy was helping the survivors by biting Datu. OR, maybe he's setting a bigger trap. Difficult to see, the future. Always in motion. - Yoda Jenkins Or, maybe it was just fortuitous.


Magic Writing or Superstitious Writing on the wall?: 800 years ago the Black Death was believed to have supernatural origins. It took time for the truth to be revealed. For millions, it never reveled, but it was a natural thing, regardless of how it seemed or what they believed.

Zombie Existentialists: What makes one a zombie? Being undead? Being un the spell of a puppet master? Not having control of your own will? Mice with the Toxoplasma Gondii parasite are effectually controlled by it to lose their fear of cats in order to be eaten by them. The parasite reproduces in the cat's intestines, gets pooped out and then infects other mice. Over and over again. Ophiocodyceps unilateralis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis) does something similar to ants. It affects the ants' behavior, compelling it to perch on high leaves, which makes it a good target for birds that will eat it and continue the cycle. Not saying that the zombie agent is a parasite, nanobots or Elder Ones jism. Just that what ever it is it compels human's behavior. The symbols that control Datu, natural or artificial seems to work this way when he says that they 'mean' or 'feel like'. The only part that doesn't fall inline with this is the address. But time will tell.


Actually I wanted to rep you for all of this ... Awesome read ... !

[LiamKerrington]

Of course, it could also be demons :p

Demons are no magic ... They are ... well ... demons! And since WA takes the religious turn right now, demons fit into the picture ... :D

[Litmaster]

Chapter 44: Michael, Victor, and Datu are walking around in the land of the living dead, finding lotsa clues about Ink, and at one point Ink himself, WHO escapes. Meanwhile, CJ and Pegs are setting up stuff at that lake thing...
Chapter 45: More colony 2.0 stuff with Pegs and CJ. Cliffhanger will contain more Scratchness, maybe some Burtness too.
Chapter 46: Burt and Riley drive to the hospital, we go back to Michael and the pals in the tunnels, they finally find their way out, Vic dies and Michael escapes with Datu, heading to the colony.

I'm pretty much doubting that Datu is ever making it out of that tunnel. I think this is his one way ticket. I'm not even sure if Michael or Vic will make it out, either, and the story might finish with Mike, alone, in some underground Zed cavern, scrawling out his final words before Ink comes to the door to get him...



Tunnel: Micheal describes the opening as being pulled up and jetting outwards from the inside. Also, no mention of removed dirt. Maybe it wasn't dug! Something came from underground!

Even if it was a giant worm-zombie, the dirt can't just disappear. If there really are miles of Zed tunnels under LA.... I'd be real interested to know how they were constructed. The mental image of a chain-gang of Behemoth's, passing dirt buckets back and forth while singing "Whistle as you work" isn't really doing it for me. :nik:




[B]Lizzy undergoing surgery: Of all of the surgery that has taken place in this story, will she and/or the baby be the only one/s to to need a blood transfusion? Who's gonna donate?

I'm wondering if she is even going to survive the delivery. To me, this medical problem of hers came on a bit too suddenly (it seems); this would have been better justified if, in a previous scene, we heard her saying something like "I feel a bit lightheaded" or something to this effect. Don't recall anything like this, but I may be wrong...


Magic Writing or Superstitious Writing on the wall?: 800 years ago the Black Death was believed to have supernatural origins. It took time for the truth to be revealed. For millions, it never reveled, but it was a natural thing, regardless of how it seemed or what they believed.

Yeah, I'm not really concerned about that kind of thing. The main thing I am concerned with is this: is the story giving me enough justifiable reason to believe what is happening at this given moment? That is more or less the litmus test for me. I suppose you could base your criticism of the 'realism' of the story on research such as the engineering aspects of, say, whether or not a fire, an RPG, and a few pipe bombs could legitimately undermine the supports of a building and make it collapse, but any kind of opinion based on such extra-dramatic research is not enough to get me to deny the veracity of the story I am hearing.


Zombie Existentialists: What makes one a zombie? Being undead? Being un the spell of a puppet master? Not having control of your own will? Mice with the Toxoplasma Gondii parasite are effectually controlled by it to lose their fear of cats in order to be eaten by them. The parasite reproduces in the cat's intestines, gets pooped out and then infects other mice. Over and over again. Ophiocodyceps unilateralis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis) does something similar to ants. It affects the ants' behavior, compelling it to perch on high leaves, which makes it a good target for birds that will eat it and continue the cycle. Not saying that the zombie agent is a parasite, nanobots or Elder Ones jism. Just that what ever it is it compels human's behavior. The symbols that control Datu, natural or artificial seems to work this way when he says that they 'mean' or 'feel like'. The only part that doesn't fall inline with this is the address. But time will tell.

I only still call them 'Zombies' out of convenience. We all understand we are not dealing with Romero undead here, and despite some nods to traditional zombie tropes (e.g. Michael saying that "headshots seem to drop 'em like flies"), these are creatures quite different from anything that Romero ever came up with. I usually just use the term Zed as shorthand for 'whatever these former humans have become', and leave it at that... :nik:

[Grognaurd]

Wasn't this symbol on one of the doors that were broken in? If so, it would imply that all of the other behemoths could read it and knew not to break into the room. If behemoths tend to eat people, it would be a very good test of the strength of the symbol's meaning. Food versus symbols and all that.

Now I need to go back and check too.

This is a great point. Those behemoths were starving to death and still did not breach that door.

[UndeadSweeper]

This is a great point. Those behemoths were starving to death and still did not breach that door.

To me the bethemoths seem to be creature that need some such motivation to attack. They either need to hear or see something to attack or destroy. If you notice the one at Cain, it was acting very docile when alone.

[Grognaurd]

I think they are bright. They are war machines and have a purpose to combat something.

Water Pumping Station
Attacks Angel, Riley, Datu, Michael. When there was only Michael there was no attack. Prior, they seemed to attack people from Dunbar, but spared Randy

Arena
Attacks Angel, Kalani and Riley. Prior, seemed to attack or at least defend Dunbar Assault Team

Reserve Base / Water Tower
Attacks Angel and Kilani

Tower Collapse
Attacks Saul and Victor

Jail ( inside )
Attacks Matagun, three Denver Soldiers and Puck

Jail ( outside )
Attacks gun truck ( used to be at Dunbar with Victor and Saul ) ignores Puck and Matagun

Cain
Need more info, but did not go into attack mode. Maybe did not notice Burt, Riley and Saul or maybe did not care.

Pattern: Angel and Victor. Wild Card: Denver Soldiers and people from Dunbar

[Verse]

I think they are bright... Just Lazy? Not the best word. Maybe better word would be ignorant. There is no reason they should be walking around blind in the dark. They could just bum rush a wall and be free. Instead they wander around until they see something. My guess is that have "Muscle" memory for lack of a better word. They are not going "Hey. That man has a awesome steampunk gun. I should take care of that first. He is running? Ok. Let me take out that massive gun on that truck", but instinct. His subconscious pushed him to target certain things. Not like we have't seen normal/non-smart Zeds do things. That one jumped behind the desk at the begining of the series to avoid being shot.

Even though they are massive they seem to be almost unaware of their size until they go into "DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE" mode. Then they just tear shit up. Skittles said one couldn't climb to get a cat off a bus or something. It could have just ran and hit the bus to tip it. Instead it tried to climb like a normal person. When it sees people... it just throws shit around and tears through things. Betting they don't realize just how strong they are. Kinda like a large child.

My guess is that Zeds see/smell us as slightly different. Kinda why they started foaming at the mouth when the Sweat Test was done. They went nuts. Betting that lake of care is what allows them to go through walls and such.

[Jannit]

A number of animals don't attack unless provoked or threatened in some way or another. As Grog mentions, the Behemoths could just be reacting to what they perceive as a threat. In all of those situations where they attacked, someone did something to piss them off or force their attack. Who knows, maybe they're like bees and will just go about their business unless they are bothered.

[scbubba]

Finally got to listen to this episode (been crazy around here once again) and I managed to get through the 1st 20 pages of this thread. I have some comments on the episode but mostly on other posts since y'all have talked about so much already. Gonna try to be back later to get my main thoughts down.

I will go ahead and say that I was TOTALLY wrong on Datu reading the symbols. I had said it was some language that he already knew and that the symbols and Ink's tats weren't actually controlling /hurting/stopping the zombies. Well, I'll be having a big serving of crow for all that.....

Which reminds me - did anyone notice any crow sounds in the outdoor scenes with Michael, Victor, and Datu? I didn't but then I usually have to listen a couple of times to get those details.

[alabarrie]

Random question. Do we know is Ink is a "Zombie"? Was he bit or scratched when they attached the van? If he's not a zombie, what is he doing to survive?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I think they are bright. They are war machines and have a purpose to combat something.

Concerning the "brightness" level of behemoths, they might simply suffer from an unfavorable combination of low intelligence and poor vision, you know...

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/midvale-school-for-the-gifted.jpg

A door can be a powerful enemy.

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm think that it more of a personally issue then brightness. Remember where the majority of the behemoths came from, the isolation wing of the prison. Some are aggressive when with other, but if you left alone for the most of your prison stay you may grow use to be alone and doing nothing about.

[Grognaurd]

Yea, bright was not the proper term. Bright compared the average biter 1.0 still leaves a bit to be desired. However, if it is Nick Rivers, he might be a smart one. He was the department head or something like that.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

BTW, I will always associate the name Nick Rivers with a very particular movie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZDrCXdiayk

[FunkyDung]

I'm not the only one! YAY! :yay: :excited:

[Red Shirt]

SO, I have had a bit of time to stop and think about the most recent episode. I've also had a bit of time to digest getting to talk to the man himself during the LiveCast on Monday night. That was a riot.

One of the topics of discussion was the hole in the church, underground tunnels and their possible origin... natural, preexisting or recently dug and the connections they may have.

With the names Cordova and Pasadena in hand, with Google Maps, I was lead to Cordova Street (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Cordova+Street,+Pasadena,+CA&hl=en&ll=34.141699,-118.131952&spn=0.011455,0.021136&sll=42.76617,-71.437569&sspn=0.162568,0.338173&oq=cordova+street+&hnear=Cordova+St,+Pasadena,+California&t=m&z=16). Prior to the show, I was able to determine that Cordova or even Pasadena for that matter is nowhere near the Purple or Red lines (subways) of the LA Transit system. Also, Pasadena as a whole doesn't seem to have any major "recently" active faults running through it, though it does seem to be surrounded (http://www.quake.ca.gov/gmaps/FAM/faultactivitymap.html).

Another avenue of research for this and another of the conversational tangents was the Army Corps of Engineers LA River channeling project (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?5110-Chapter-41-3-Eye-of-the-Storm&p=70514#post70514) and what amounts to essentially underground rivers and streams. Some that seem to be underground for miles. After some extensive scanning with Google maps satellite view, I am so far not coming up with anything promising for the region around Cordova St. Yet. There's the Arroyo Seco wash to the west and the Eaton Wash to the east... they more or less go around Pasadena. I have however discovered a few other interesting things.


To the north in Altadena, at the Altadena Golf Course the Rubio Wash goes underground into what looks lie a HUGE tunnel (https://www.google.com/maps?q=Cordova+Street,+Pasadena,+CA&hl=en&ll=34.180464,-118.116492&spn=0.002862,0.005284&sll=42.752811,-71.49671&sspn=0.162603,0.338173&oq=cordova+stre&hnear=Cordova+St,+Pasadena,+California&t=h&z=18).
What looks like a spur of the Rubio Wash at Crest Street (https://www.google.com/maps?q=Cordova+Street,+Pasadena,+CA&hl=en&ll=34.191546,-118.118176&spn=0.001431,0.002642&sll=42.752811,-71.49671&sspn=0.162603,0.338173&oq=cordova+stre&hnear=Cordova+St,+Pasadena,+California&t=h&z=19).
Rubio Wash surfaces at Robles Ave. here, to the south-east of Cordova (https://www.google.com/maps?q=Cordova+Street,+Pasadena,+CA&hl=en&ll=34.128727,-118.10035&spn=0.002025,0.002642&sll=34.179864,-118.117184&sspn=0.002862,0.007328&oq=cordova+stre&t=h&hnear=Cordova+St,+Pasadena,+California&z=19).
A bit closer... Something underground at the Huntington Hospital... (Parking?) (https://www.google.com/maps?q=Cordova+Street,+Pasadena,+CA&hl=en&ll=34.134877,-118.152829&spn=0.001013,0.001321&sll=34.179864,-118.117184&sspn=0.002862,0.007328&oq=cordova+stre&t=h&hnear=Cordova+St,+Pasadena,+California&z=20)
The Gold Line does go underground HERE (https://www.google.com/maps?q=Cordova+Street,+Pasadena,+CA&hl=en&ll=34.144203,-118.148129&spn=0.001012,0.001321&sll=34.179864,-118.117184&sspn=0.002862,0.007328&oq=cordova+stre&t=h&hnear=Cordova+St,+Pasadena,+California&z=20) and HERE (https://www.google.com/maps?q=Cordova+Street,+Pasadena,+CA&hl=en&ll=34.150658,-118.146314&spn=0.001012,0.001321&sll=34.179864,-118.117184&sspn=0.002862,0.007328&oq=cordova+stre&t=h&hnear=Cordova+St,+Pasadena,+California&z=20).

It might be important to ask/wonder, which part of Cordova Street?

I also learned that it was reported on October 8, 2013 (http://www.pasadenanow.com/main/flood-control-district-to-build-5-mile-pipeline-across-pasadena) that:

The state has granted the Los Angeles County Flood Control District $28 million for the construction of a five-mile pipeline that will connect Devil’s Gate Dam in northwest Pasadena and Eaton Canyon Wash in east Pasadena.
What if in the fictional WA LA, this already took place?



As it happens, the eastern third of Cordova Street is about 1-2 blocks north of Caltech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology). Now, I had a listen back to Ch. 40 3/3 to refresh my memory and in addition to being a Pharmaceutical Engineer for Raydon, Dr. Roberts also had a:


Doctorate in Chemical Engineering from MIT
Doctorate in Bio-pharmaceutical Engineering from NJIT
Bachelor of Sciences in Biomedical Engineering from Harvard

While Ink may not have been an alumni of the school, it is home to several research institutes that either have those disciplines on campus, are branches of institutes that do, or seem to have something that might have interested him. These include, but aren't limited to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_California_Institute_of_Technology_buildin gs_and_facilities):


Charles Arms Laboratory of the Geological Sciences
Seeley W. Mudd Laboratory of the Geological Sciences
Norman W. Church Laboratory for Chemical Biology
Gordon A. Alles Laboratory for Molecular Biology
The Mabel and Arnold Beckman Laboratories of Behavioral Biology
Seeley G. Mudd Building of Geophysics and Planetary Science
Beckman Institute (https://www.its.caltech.edu/~bi/resourcecenters.shtml)

I'd say that the Beckman Institute is notable, it jumped out at me because there is a reflection pool/fountain in front of the building called the "Gene Pool." I won't list them here, (check the above link) but the Caltech branch of the Beckman Institute is involved in some serious high level biology and genomic research... it seems like every department would be of interest to Ink. There's even a Mass Spectrometry Resource Center, EXACTLY the type of place Tanya needs to take her Inglewood haze samples.

[7oddisdead]

I wondered how long before you dropped this stuff you were looking into Monday night. really is interesting with the cal-tech stuff.

one thing that came up during a late night conversation mr. shirt and I had, is just how awesome the w/a story would be if utilized in a mmo style online game. just imagine if we were given some sort of direction (ie: ink and the biters were seen at 'x' address) and we go out via google and reseach and develop the parts of the story, much the way redshirt just did with the cal tech info. im sure somebody must already be doing that..but if they're not....

back on topic

I mentioned it early on in this thread, but what are the chances that anyone (mike & soldiers) actually went inside the arena? we really don't know that the maller tank bombs brought the whole thing down. - according to tardust, they didn't have enough fuel to bring it down.- so whos to say that the tunnel in the church doesn't lead back to the arena? also, with the boards of the church described as busted out-v- busted in...same situation as the transport van at the courthouse...

another bit...if the tunnel leads back to the arena, how fitting? we just had a conversation with datu and hope that we (are lead to think) involves Samantha. aaaaaaaaaaand where's the last place she was?

[Witch_Doctor]

I don't think that Nick Rivers would be Lizzy's father (if that is how I'm reading the speculations). Lizzy said that Nicholas was her grandfather's name. This, of course could mean that her grandfather could have been a psychiatrist too. This doesn't change the idea that there could be a family connection; just clarifies who the family members could be. Then again, Nick Rivers would be an old behemoth.

[Witch_Doctor]

Anyone pick up the part when Victor comments that Saul and Tanya might be in the clear because they couldn't read the zombieglyph? (Lit, I hope I don't owe you a royalty for using that word.) Then Micheal's response is like, "Well, duh!" Sounds like Saul's and Tanya's secret is still a secret. I wonder when, and under what inopportune circumstances it will be revealed. Duh Da Duhhhhhnnnnn! :tinfoil:

[Footbutt]

another bit...if the tunnel leads back to the arena, how fitting? we just had a conversation with datu and hope that we (are lead to think) involves Samantha. aaaaaaaaaaand where's the last place she was?[/COLOR]

i seem to remember the speculations about Samantha being used as a "Queen Bee" for zombs?
it sounds like "too much" for me, but the :tinfoil -ist in me can see that little drop of her name in Hope's goodbye with Datu could be foreshadowing.... but unlikely.

of all people, Datu has had his world rocked the most:
Not knowing the fate of his children
watching the people he's lived with die (tower residents)
befriending Towerites, Colonists, only to have them die right before him
falling in love and losing her in a matter of days
being bitten, feeling the change, knowing you're going to die
etc...

but above all, he is having his faith tested. that is the one thing he keeps coming back to. in all of this chaos, he is still clinging to that hope. i admire him for that.

[scbubba]

Hi all. Awesome stuff up there Red Shirt!

Some key things that stood out to me on initial listening to this episode:

- Datu's "taking a backseat" experience
I've heard lots of talk about out of body experiences from many different sources (drugs, occult, near-death experience, schizophrenia) so the concept of watching oneself as if from a distance or from outside of your control isn't new by any means. The thing, of course, for Datu and probably the zombies in general is what is the cause and who/what "takes over". Meaning, is there a separate consciousness inside Datu's head that has control or is it a lower level "reptillian brain" that has pushed his conscious mind to the back? At this point, I'm leaning towards the lower level instinctual parts of the brain and nervous system are what's taking over. They are probably getting help from the zombie agent working on the brain somehow.

Taking into account that I'm not in the medical field whatsoever and I'm willing to extend a suspension of disbelief pretty far, I'm thinking that there could be some sort of thing, call it the agent, that could enter the human blood stream and reach a certain part of the body - say the brain - and get to work messing with it. I don't have a lot of knowledge on how the brain does what it does but I'm wondering if there were some sort of way to mess with the connection in the brain or the communications between parts of the brain so that the rational/conscious part of the brain could be effectively cutoff from the rest and leave the instinctual/"reptillian" portion in control 24/7? Well, even if there isn't a definitive way for this to occur, it seems like it might be in the realm of possibility for a sci-fi sort of tale....

The "smart ones" have been able to maintain some of the conscious connection and can inform and/or countermand the animal brain at times. The level of intelligence or will of the person before turning may dictate how much control of influence the higher brain has after turning ("the smarter you are in life....")

- Symbols transferring meaning
Following the brain re-wiring idea above, it might be possible to trigger the basic reward centers of the base brain with symbols that had some form of instinctual or universal meaning. In the book "Constructing a Language: A Usage-Based Theory on Language Acquisition", Michael Tomasello talks about the differences between human and animal basic communication (see it here (http://books.google.com/books?id=7M_lSEfzTQoC&pg=PA8&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false))

To oversimplify, animal signals are aimed at the behavior and motivational states of others, whereas human symbols are aimed at the attentional and mental states of others.
Tomasello goes on to discuss how human linguistically communication is learned via different social and cultural methods. Animals rely on this type of "learning" less and therefore do not develop much learned communication as a species - some individuals or small social groups can/do learn communications in some animals. Animals, as a whole, have more "known" signals than learned signals. Given the humans' abilities to create ad understand visual symbols, the regression to a more basic function in the brain may trigger a much higher sensitivity to a set of "known" vs "learned" symbols.
I'll need to go deeper in the Tomasello book to see if he develops this idea further though....

- Tunnel(s)
Underground population of zombies! Cool. But do they live down there? Do they have a vast warren of tunnels and caves under LA? Or is this one of only a few places that has a tunnel entrance and the zombies are all outside LA somewhere using a few entry points like this one? Does it lead to the arena which is probably still mostly intact at ground level or below ground?

Not sure of the answers but I bet we find out in the near (not near enough!) future. Regarding the dirt from the excavation, if there is some really big underground place(s) that is naturally occurring, the dirt could have been deposited there. Ot if the tunnel(s) end outside LA somewhere, the dirt could have been put on that end - far away from the eyes of Team Human...

In general, I'm envisioning a "safe house" network for the zombies where there are several of these places like the church that have tunnel entries. It allows singles and small groups to get about more freely in LA without being noticed as much. Recall that some of the biggest "defeats" that Ink's army has had were when they were gathered in large numbers (arena, attacking the Colony). Ink isn't stupid as we have seen.

- Cain Hospital and Treehemoth
We all saw something ominous coming when Saul had to leave so much equipment at Cain because of the appearance of the Treehemoth. So, back to Cain we will be going. But there is a big baddie there! And that might work out in their favor... Other folks have said it before in this thread - Behemoths and regulars don't usually hang out together. And Behemoths have a different "trigger" to attack and go beserk. And they don't grasp some basic concepts (in general) like perhaps stairs. So if Tanya, Lizzie, et al can get up a couple of floors then the sounds may not be so bad (i.e., not reach the outside) and if they can sneak in past Treehemoth, then they could have a good ward against the random zombie scouting party (or even against Scratch?)

- The answering machine
I thought it was very interesting that we are told about leaving a message on the answering machine when Tanya switches to the landline. This takes the idea of unsecured radios off the table for someone learning about Lizzie's situation. The attempt to communicate over the police radio could have alerted Burt and Riley. With the Colony emptying out, the question is who all listens to the message and now knows? Does Scratch come across it as she scouts the Colony for intel on Pegs? Does Pegs find it when before she flies the helo out of the Colony and decide that plans need to change (thus getting her back in the mix with the Tower crew and bringing Scratch back into play for Burt and Riley)? Hmmmm.....

Can't wait to see/hear Chapter 44!!!!

[Witch_Doctor]

i seem to remember the speculations about Samantha being used as a "Queen Bee" for zombs?
it sounds like "too much" for me, but the :tinfoil -ist in me can see that little drop of her name in Hope's goodbye with Datu could be foreshadowing.... but unlikely.

of all people, Datu has had his world rocked the most:
Not knowing the fate of his children
watching the people he's lived with die (tower residents)
befriending Towerites, Colonists, only to have them die right before him
falling in love and losing her in a matter of days
being bitten, feeling the change, knowing you're going to die
etc...

but above all, he is having his faith tested. that is the one thing he keeps coming back to. in all of this chaos, he is still clinging to that hope. i admire him for that.


MY GOODNESS!! Datu is the ANTI-SAUL!

[Merlin1274]

Ok I am going to throw this out, Remember when they had a trickling of Water out the windmill. It was not much and muddy.. I thought at the time it was because they had to dig to the well. But I think the pipe was already there. They did not dig a well..

So the tunnels under the city could be the natural water ways. They dammed them up some where and diverted the flows. So the water they were getting was not much cause there would be nothing but muddy water left at the bottom. Just a Thought.. after reading a couple posts.. Anyone with a map of the natural springs or underground streams?

[Footbutt]

MY GOODNESS!! Datu is the ANTI-SAUL!

you know what's crazy... Saul was my favorite character because he was very much a Hero-type and his actions were very believable and felt genuine.
now that i hear Datu in this state and to see his sacrificial nature... it's just awesome. all of his whining and complaining earlier in the series was something he externalized, where others kept it bottled up. Now look at him! He's still pressing on.

[Merlin1274]

Ok I am going to throw this out, Remember when they had a trickling of Water out the windmill. It was not much and muddy.. I thought at the time it was because they had to dig to the well. But I think the pipe was already there. They did not dig a well..

So the tunnels under the city could be the natural water ways. They dammed them up some where and diverted the flows. So the water they were getting was not much cause there would be nothing but muddy water left at the bottom. Just a Thought.. after reading a couple posts.. Anyone with a map of the natural springs or underground streams?

Gonna expand on this but I maybe reaching.. What if the main tunnel leads, like mentioned by several, the Arena an another side one to stop the flow of water to the colony to force them out. Which has succeeded.. That could be what they did with all the dirt and debris from digging. Also would explain small trickle of muddy water..

[Gooer]

Anyone pick up the part when Victor comments that Saul and Tanya might be in the clear because they couldn't read the zombieglyph? (Lit, I hope I don't owe you a royalty for using that word.) Then Micheal's response is like, "Well, duh!" Sounds like Saul's and Tanya's secret is still a secret. I wonder when, and under what inopportune circumstances it will be revealed. Duh Da Duhhhhhnnnnn! :tinfoil:

Yea, i found that a little odd that Victor did that, like as if he thought everyone knew of their condition, where every had actually assumed, like Michael did, that they were clear months ago... Wonder when it'll be brought up/revealed?

[Grognaurd]

I don't think that Nick Rivers would be Lizzy's father (if that is how I'm reading the speculations). Lizzy said that Nicholas was her grandfather's name. This, of course could mean that her grandfather could have been a psychiatrist too. This doesn't change the idea that there could be a family connection; just clarifies who the family members could be. Then again, Nick Rivers would be an old behemoth.

Great find, sorry I missed it. I find the similarity of the names striking.

As we get further away from the episode, I like to provide my more obscure thinking to the die hards. No need to spam the more casual readers. Some of my more obscure thoughts...

They certainly did get caught with their pants down at the church. I do not know if Michael has the special syringe with him right now or if it got left in the truck. I can easily see it play out either way, both provide high drama.
scbubba, I do not recall any crows, either. Usually, I just hear them, I have to go back for an active listen.

We have not seen a lot of interior structures, like homes and stuff. Maybe some of the people turned in their homes and were compelled to dig from there. This keeps a lot of the dirt unseen. When they chased Randy and Puck was ambushed, they seemed to just appear. Out of nearby buildings or maybe even out of tunnels inside those buildings.

I still find it odd that this horde just showed up. There has not been anything like it in 4 months. Is there some sort of silent alarm that was triggered? All of this speculation about tunnels, but the response team goes over ground? The tunnels not well connected? Super smart response to fank the heroes over ground and force Datu etal into the tunnels?

More complex story... This group of biters did not know where this site was. They have been tracking Datu in hopes that he can figure out the address. This might just be too complicated for the limited number of episodes left. However, I think Datu's condition is different from what we have seen. I think he has been infected twice. A scratch from a little one and a bite from Randy. We have seen tht the turned inklings seem a lot tougher and possibly smarter ( they found ways to rip open the tanks ) than the biters 1.0. Why not upgrade? An obvious answer is the two contagions are not compatible. Two contagions might provide two ( possibly competing ) agendas. They both would have to fight for similar resources and that type if friction drives evolution and sometimes extinction.

[Hoff4D]

...In general, I'm envisioning a "safe house" network for the zombies where there are several of these places like the church that have tunnel entries. It allows singles and small groups to get about more freely in LA without being noticed as much. Recall that some of the biggest "defeats" that Ink's army has had were when they were gathered in large numbers (arena, attacking the Colony). Ink isn't stupid as we have seen....


Even after months of hiatus from the forums, I can't rep you! DAMN! Great stuff with the animal linguistics vs human. Would rep if I could.

Ok, so this underground safe house idea, I had kind of "poo-pooed" it up until I read your response. I dont know why, but it just kinda hit me....How long ago did we start saying "There seems to be less of them now-a-days". They've taken to the tunnels and only come out when on 'attack the humans' mission, or some other 'get me drugs to test people' mission from Ink. I'm still not sure that THATS what the tunnel is for, but I feel its more substantiated now taking into account the length of time since we noticed their decreased population...and the lack of them on our trail cams. I mean, we see tons of 'lone wolfs' and decide they aren't worth paying any mind, when in reality that's what Ink WANTS us to do, and they're Recon guys....


+1 for Treehemoth as well.

Also....Pegs hears the answering machine, and this is how we get out of Cain? Last minute rescue on the roof by Pegs as our Delivery team runs up the stairs from whatever Treehemoth couldn't handle, Treehemoth himself....or scratch?

[Gnex]

Chapter 44 -
Michael - You got the Syringe?
Victor - Yeah I got it! Is it time?
Michael - yeah I think so!
Datu - Guys! I right here, and I can hear you.....
Michael - I think he is turning man! Stick him!
Datu - No seriously guys... I'm fine.... I think I am actually getting better!
Victor - Mike?
Michael - I think he's turning.....
Datu - I'm fine!!!
Victor - Well???
Michael - I think he just flinched..... stick him!
Datu - What?!?!
Victor - Que?!?!
Michael - Syringe!!!
Victor - It's Time?!?!
Datu - No!
Michael - Yes!
Victor - Ay Dios Mio!!
Datu - I give up your both paranoid.......

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hm, I wonder what is at the out end of the tunnel our three musketeers jumped in so involuntarily.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/327/9/a/star_wars_sarlacc_by_seekerarmada-d5lwd25.jpg

[UndeadSweeper]

Even after months of hiatus from the forums, I can't rep you! DAMN! Great stuff with the animal linguistics vs human. Would rep if I could.

Ok, so this underground safe house idea, I had kind of "poo-pooed" it up until I read your response. I dont know why, but it just kinda hit me....How long ago did we start saying "There seems to be less of them now-a-days". They've taken to the tunnels and only come out when on 'attack the humans' mission, or some other 'get me drugs to test people' mission from Ink. I'm still not sure that THATS what the tunnel is for, but I feel its more substantiated now taking into account the length of time since we noticed their decreased population...and the lack of them on our trail cams. I mean, we see tons of 'lone wolfs' and decide they aren't worth paying any mind, when in reality that's what Ink WANTS us to do, and they're Recon guys....


+1 for Treehemoth as well.

Also....Pegs hears the answering machine, and this is how we get out of Cain? Last minute rescue on the roof by Pegs as our Delivery team runs up the stairs from whatever Treehemoth couldn't handle, Treehemoth himself....or scratch?

We have notice their decreased population, but remember the ALDO that attacked the other one at Englewood. I believe they reducing their own number. We know that Behemoth die from the overdose of chemicals used to make them that way, also that the "zombie" can starve to death as well. Why would Ink keep such a big army when he can continue make his prefect creatures the ALDO?

[kent17]

Why would Scratch go after them? Lizzy is probably the last person she would want to cause harm to. She still has a bit humanity in her.

Scrathc doesn't care about Lizzy, she just wants the baby that she could never have...

[UndeadSweeper]

Scrathc doesn't care about Lizzy, she just wants the baby that she could never have...

From the conversation they had in the colony it seem that she did. If it wasn't for Scratch Lizzy would have gotten the same treatment as everyone else. Remember that the Mallers brought slave labor with them.

[Verse]

From the conversation they had in the colony it seem that she did. If it wasn't for Scratch Lizzy would have gotten the same treatment as everyone else. Remember that the Mallers brought slave labor with them.

I think that Scratch wouldn't give a shit about Lizzy the person. Lizzy the Mother on the other hand is a different matter. If Lizzy wasn't with Child then Scratch would have tossed her to the wolves. She was preggers though and will be a Mother soon. So I am think Undead is right. She would leave Lizzy alone.

[Red Shirt]

Hi all. Awesome stuff up there Red Shirt!

Some key things that stood out to me on initial listening to this episode:

- Datu's "taking a backseat" experience


I have been wracking my brain since that came up and I think I have finally come up with (part of) what I was trying to remember:

Depersonalization disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization_disorder), a mental condition in which the sufferer experiences persistent or recurrent feelings of depersonalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization) and/or derealization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derealization).
Depersonalization seems to be the key here, as it's symptoms are described as:


An anomaly of self-awareness. It consists of a feeling of watching oneself act, while having no control over a situation. Subjects feel they have changed, and the world has become vague, dreamlike, less real, or lacking in significance. It can be a disturbing experience, since many feel that, indeed, they are living in a "dream".

Though I am not a neurologist, it seems to be largely caused in the temporal lobe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe) of the brain. Given the position of the temporal lobe within the brain in relation to the parts of the brain that govern higher functions and the parts that regulate instinctual functions... the theory that the Z-Virus disconnects higher functions from instinct makes quite a bit of sense. I think the disconnect point is near the temporal lobe. It seems that depersonalization isn't a secondary symptom, it might be a direct symptom, as it seems that this is the region that is being attacked.

We need Dr. Novella (http://theness.com/neurologicablog/) even more than ever. Things of this nature have been discussed on the SGU (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/). One other that was discussed that I can't recall at the moment, is a similar disorder where one seemingly disconnects from the physical self and loses the ability to discern the difference between self and the outside world. If I remember it, I'll mention it here.

[UndeadSweeper]

I have been wracking my brain since that came up and I think I have finally come up with (part of) what I was trying to remember:

Depersonalization disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization_disorder), a mental condition in which the sufferer experiences persistent or recurrent feelings of depersonalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization) and/or derealization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derealization).
Depersonalization seems to be the key here, as it's symptoms are described as:



Though I am not a neurologist, it seems to be largely caused in the temporal lobe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe) of the brain. Given the position of the temporal lobe within the brain in relation to the parts of the brain that govern higher functions and the parts that regulate instinctual functions... the theory that the Z-Virus disconnects higher functions from instinct makes quite a bit of sense. I think the disconnect point is near the temporal lobe. It seems that depersonalization isn't a secondary symptom, it might be a direct symptom, as it seems that this is the region that is being attacked.

We need Dr. Novella (http://theness.com/neurologicablog/) even more than ever. Things of this nature have been discussed on the SGU (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/). One other that was discussed that I can't recall at the moment, is a similar disorder where one seemingly disconnects from the physical self and loses the ability to discern the difference between self and the outside world. If I remember it, I'll mention it here.


Could it be compare to being in a coma state, where you are aware of everything that around but unable to move or said anything?

[a person]

Not tunnels, but a storage cave!

It seems to me that the biggest threat the zeds face is starvation, a problem not easily resolved. What if Ink is directing them into a giant cavern for storage? He could have inscribed the "Enter"/"Address" command at various locations around the city to direct the scattered zeds towards a single location. In this very discrete hiding place, they could safely hibernate and be easily managed. Over time, humans and animals would return to the area and the food supply would be replenished. Then, when Ink is ready...BAM, a second outbreak. During this waiting period he could also quietly continue experimentation; the humans who believed that they had solved the zed problem would be confronted with a host of new and deadly variations. I imagine the zeds keep very well, and don't get bored with the whole playing dead thing (haha...).

Note: This has probably already been said, I don't keep up with the forum very well

[Red Shirt]

Could it be compare to being in a coma state, where you are aware of everything that around but unable to move or said anything?

Not quite, in a coma as they are thus far understood, the patient is unconscious and without discernible brain function. In the case of depersonalization, the person suffering is "awake" but may feel like they are in a dreamlike state and like they are watching themselves as an observer, rather than a participant in the actions they are taking.

Another seemingly related affliction is Locked in Syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome). This is where the person suffering has lost all voluntary motor control, yet retains all of their higher brain function. LIS can be simulated with Curare poisoning, which when I followed that down the wiki hole, led me to D-tubocurarine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubocurarine_chloride), yet another complex carbon ring molecule. :nik:

Following on the click throughs, I was also led to Akinetic Mutism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akinetic_mutism). This is a mental state where the sufferer exhibits symptoms that mirror those of LIS, but to a lesser degree. It has been described as "lacking the will to move." Many cases of AM are caused by a stroke originating in the Thalamus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalamus), the region of the brain I was trying to remember above. The thalamus is described as being the "central switchboard" and a relay between subcortical areas and the cerebral cortex. Zombification changes in the brain are probably most evident and/or centered here... "...the only test is an autopsy."

[UndeadSweeper]

Not quite, in a coma as they are thus far understood, the patient is unconscious and without discernible brain function. In the case of depersonalization, the person suffering is "awake" but may feel like they are in a dreamlike state and like they are watching themselves as an observer, rather than a participant in the actions they are taking.

Another seemingly related affliction is Locked in Syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-in_syndrome). This is where the person suffering has lost all voluntary motor control, yet retains all of their higher brain function. LIS can be simulated with Curare poisoning, which when I followed that down the wiki hole, led me to D-tubocurarine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubocurarine_chloride), yet another complex carbon ring molecule. :nik:

Following on the click throughs, I was also led to Akinetic Mutism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akinetic_mutism). This is a mental state where the sufferer exhibits symptoms that mirror those of LIS, but to a lesser degree. It has been described as "lacking the will to move." Many cases of AM are caused by a stroke originating in the Thalamus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalamus), the region of the brain I was trying to remember above. The thalamus is described as being the "central switchboard" and a relay between subcortical areas and the cerebral cortex. Zombification changes in the brain are probably most evident and/or centered here... "...the only test is an autopsy."

Are you sure you are red shirt? You sound like a blue shirt to me. O_o'

[scbubba]

Are you sure you are red shirt? You sound like a blue shirt to me. O_o'

Dammit Jim! I'm a Red Shirt not a doctor!

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Dammit Jim! I'm a Red Shirt not a doctor!

You know you are in trouble when somebody orders you to change your uniform from yellow to red.

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/Star-Trek-Into-Darkness-Chekov-Red-Shirt.jpg

Or, let's go back from ST:ATL to ST:TOS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E90oZSY9M-s

[Grognaurd]

I found this episode ROTFLOL. Couldn't find a YouTube of this segment. Oh, BTW, it is actually the bad guy wearing red in this episode, guess what happened to him...

SG-1 Season 6 Episode 8 "The Other Guys"

EPISODE SUMMARY

While escorting physicists off-world, SG1 is taken captive by a Goa'uld hoping to curry favor with Anubis. A pair of escaped physicists who revere SG1 must rescue them.

Quote:
Felger: We are not going to die, Coombs.
Coombs: Oh come on, Felger. We might as well be wearing red shirts!
Felger: I don't get that.

- See more at: http://www.planetclaire.org/quotes/stargate-sg1/season-six/the-other-guys/#sthash.2QVwRLdZ.dpuf

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I found this episode ROTFLOL. Couldn't find a YouTube of this segment. Oh, BTW, it is actually the bad guy wearing red in this episode, guess what happened to him...

SG-1 Season 6 Episode 8 "The Other Guys"

EPISODE SUMMARY

While escorting physicists off-world, SG1 is taken captive by a Goa'uld hoping to curry favor with Anubis. A pair of escaped physicists who revere SG1 must rescue them.

Quote:
Felger: We are not going to die, Coombs.
Coombs: Oh come on, Felger. We might as well be wearing red shirts!
Felger: I don't get that.

- See more at: http://www.planetclaire.org/quotes/stargate-sg1/season-six/the-other-guys/#sthash.2QVwRLdZ.dpuf

I have to say that I never watched SG-1, mainly because I considered the idea of "MacGyver in space" as pretty awkward.

[LiamKerrington]

Random question. Do we know is Ink is a "Zombie"? Was he bit or scratched when they attached the van? If he's not a zombie, what is he doing to survive?



He is a zombie. Just remember the encounter with him in the original Tower ... He took two shots from - I thin it was - Burt's gun (yes, I know: he seemed to wear a protective vest, but still there would be some pressure on you); although he was downed, he then got up, ran down the hall, jumped through the window like a couple of stories down and ran with an insane speed away ...
And later in Caine hospital he snatched a bolt shot by Riley with a modern crossbow out of the air from a few yards distance - for a human being that is not possible, not even with training an shit, 'cause such bolts have a high velocity, and the kinetic energy of such a shot is incredible; so I would hardly believe a human being can manage to do so.

[kent17]

I read something in a webcomic today that goes back to one of 7odd's points about perception. Although it is in a different context, it still applies here


While we're throwing caution to the wind, let's also assume that sending signals down the nerves in your arm will cause it to move the pizza to your mouth, and not the fork to your eyeball. Let's assume that the information being delivered via our senses corresponds to reality, and that we can make decisions based on it. Let's assume that our memories of the past five minutes also correspond to reality, and that the next five minutes will proceed logically from events in the present. Let's assume that the universe will continue to exist, rather than spontaneously ceasing.

That's a lot of assumptions.
Tailsteak
taken from here (http://leftoversoup.com/archive.php?num=519)

[UndeadSweeper]

He is a zombie. Just remember the encounter with him in the original Tower ... He took two shots from - I thin it was - Burt's gun (yes, I know: he seemed to wear a protective vest, but still there would be some pressure on you); although he was downed, he then got up, ran down the hall, jumped through the window like a couple of stories down and ran with an insane speed away ...
And later in Caine hospital he snatched a bolt shot by Riley with a modern crossbow out of the air from a few yards distance - for a human being that is not possible, not even with training an shit, 'cause such bolts have a high velocity, and the kinetic energy of such a shot is incredible; so I would hardly believe a human being can manage to do so.

Good Point, I believe he also took a bullet to the hand from Burt too. So is the virus improve them?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

He is a zombie. Just remember the encounter with him in the original Tower ... He took two shots from - I thin it was - Burt's gun (yes, I know: he seemed to wear a protective vest, but still there would be some pressure on you); although he was downed, he then got up, ran down the hall, jumped through the window like a couple of stories down and ran with an insane speed away ...
And later in Caine hospital he snatched a bolt shot by Riley with a modern crossbow out of the air from a few yards distance - for a human being that is not possible, not even with training an shit, 'cause such bolts have a high velocity, and the kinetic energy of such a shot is incredible; so I would hardly believe a human being can manage to do so.

Hm, would this imply that Riley should wear some thin rubber gloves next time she shoots an arrow at Ink, so that the arrows can be impregnated with a neurotoxin? Win-win situation! :D

[Red Shirt]

Are you sure you are red shirt? You sound like a blue shirt to me. O_o'


Dammit Jim! I'm a Red Shirt not a doctor!

:D

Wellllll... the Doctor that my thought process is sometimes similar to is a different doctor entirely... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klcakk17Amk)
I might take the long way around... but I eventually get there.

[Grognaurd]

I have to say that I never watched SG-1, mainly because I considered the idea of "MacGyver in space" as pretty awkward.

Totally different character. I really enjoyed SG1. I was never a fan of Quantum Leap, but loved Enterprise. Some caution if you watch the pilot. I think it was originally for HBO or Showtime. There is a "boob" scene that never played on the scifi Chanel reruns? OBTW, I'm not a prude, but others may not be as liberal. In fact, I have seen some politician flocking to the news camera, but putting a cloth over some of the statues in the capital...

[Unit]

Man oh man if feels like it has been forever since I have been on the forum. Couple months at least. Started a new job, traveling for training, had a sick family to nurse, I just haven't had any free time since January really.

There is no way I'd be able to go back and read all I missed. Anything exciting :tinfoil: theories come up while I was gone? :D

[Gooer]

Man oh man if feels like it has been forever since I have been on the forum. Couple months at least. Started a new job, traveling for training, had a sick family to nurse, I just haven't had any free time since January really.

There is no way I'd be able to go back and read all I missed. Anything exciting :tinfoil: theories come up while I was gone? :D

Oh boy, where to start......I don't even know......there's too many man

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Totally different character. I really enjoyed SG1. I was never a fan of Quantum Leap, but loved Enterprise. Some caution if you watch the pilot. I think it was originally for HBO or Showtime. There is a "boob" scene that never played on the scifi Chanel reruns? OBTW, I'm not a prude, but others may not be as liberal. In fact, I have seen some politician flocking to the news camera, but putting a cloth over some of the statues in the capital...

Na, boobs are not a problem. There have to be some advantages if you are from Europe! :D

[LiamKerrington]

Na, boobs are not a problem. There have to be some advantages if you are from Europe! :D

Hard to believe there are any advantages, if you are from Europe ... O_o :zombie:

Anyway:
Yesterday something struck my mind: I see where some of the disappointment comes from - or at least I think I see ... Every now and then our expectations are not being confirmed by what the WA story really tells us. And I have the feeling that we tend to fall in love with our theories, assumptions, and ideas. Maybe it is a good idea to disconnect from our personal thoughts and ideas to a certain degree, or in other words: to let go from what we want or wish to see in the future. After all it is Kc who writes the story, and it is the cast and the crew telling the story.
This thought has come to my mind when I reconsider what we have written in the past about the lack of action, the development of CJ's and Michael's roles in the story, the mysterious zombie-tongue, etc. And I feel bad that I, too, have been criticizing some of these things with a shitload of arguments or wonnabe-arguments; after all I am not disappointed about how some things have evolved, but about how I have made my personal expectations more valuable than what Kc and WA-family have achieved so far. I am sorry. And I would like to share this emotional thought with the WA fans hoping to find some reflecting it similarly. But who am I, to judge others. And maybe - as usual - I am totally wrong ...

Ah, fuck it. This law-shit drives me crazy and I start writing stupid shit. Kelly! Help me!

Best wishes!
Liam

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hard to believe there are any advantages, if you are from Europe ... O_o :zombie:

Anyway:
Yesterday something struck my mind: I see where some of the disappointment comes from - or at least I think I see ... Every now and then our expectations are not being confirmed by what the WA story really tells us. And I have the feeling that we tend to fall in love with our theories, assumptions, and ideas. Maybe it is a good idea to disconnect from our personal thoughts and ideas to a certain degree, or in other words: to let go from what we want or wish to see in the future. After all it is Kc who writes the story, and it is the cast and the crew telling the story.
This thought has come to my mind when I reconsider what we have written in the past about the lack of action, the development of CJ's and Michael's roles in the story, the mysterious zombie-tongue, etc. And I feel bad that I, too, have been criticizing some of these things with a shitload of arguments or wonnabe-arguments; after all I am not disappointed about how some things have evolved, but about how I have made my personal expectations more valuable than what Kc and WA-family have achieved so far. I am sorry. And I would like to share this emotional thought with the WA fans hoping to find some reflecting it similarly. But who am I, to judge others. And maybe - as usual - I am totally wrong ...

Ah, fuck it. This law-shit drives me crazy and I start writing stupid shit. Kelly! Help me!

Best wishes!
Liam

My personal goal with regards to WA is to simply write "Thank you guys, thanks you Mr Wayland, it has been a hell of a ride. Especially, thank you for allowing me to rape the English grammar multiple times here in the forum" at the very end of the show. I really enjoy the story because it could not differ further from the contemporary Hollywood way of story-telling. Call me a audiophile masochist but I like that my story predictions are often wrong - which feels good and right.

[LiamKerrington]

My personal goal with regards to WA is to simply write "Thank you guys, thanks you Mr Wayland, it has been a hell of a ride. Especially, thank you for allowing me to rape the English grammar multiple times here in the forum" at the very end of the show. I really enjoy the story because it could not differ further from the contemporary Hollywood way of story-telling. Call me a audiophile masochist but I like that my story predictions are often wrong - which feels good and right.

No offense, mate. But I think your way of writing in English is pretty well done - not only for a bloody Kraut or European. I have re-read some of my postings, and I really wonder how English-spokesmen are able to understand any of the shit I write, if not even I understand what I have written ... That's weird. :britt:

And absolutely: I enjoy failing with my predictions on a very regular basis, too. We should establish the KAFA - the Krautian Assumption Failing Association.

Kc's storytelling is pretty cool. And I like it a lot. Although WA is rushing towards its end, I really look forward to seeing,er, listening to the new project(s) by Kc ... That being said: I have not mentally quit from WA so far. And I look foward to re-listening to the show every now and then. And as soon as the giant-super-CD-box with all four seasons is available on Amazon or Audible or shit, I will go and get a copy asap - even, if I have to pay with my own blood.

And as an aside: Thank you, Kc and Osiris, for having given me some precious advice about how to approach writing. This has helped me a lot in my writing and especially the thinking about writing so far. I have started a small article-series on madadventurers(dot)com (under the pseudonym of Cpt. Future), and part of my work is based on the conceptual things you have told me.

Best wishes!
Liam

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

No offense, mate. But I think your way of writing in English is pretty well done - not only for a bloody Kraut or European. I have re-read some of my postings, and I really wonder how English-spokesmen are able to understand any of the shit I write, if not even I understand what I have written ... That's weird. :britt:

And absolutely: I enjoy failing with my predictions on a very regular basis. Kc's storytelling is pretty cool. And I like it a lot. Although WA is rushing towards its end, I really look forward to seeing,er, listenign to the new project(s) by Kc ...

And as an aside: Thank you, Kc and Osiris, for having me given some precious advice about how to approach writing. This has helped me a lot in my writing so far.

Best wishes!
Liam

Would somebody do me a favor and rep this man?
Thanks Liam.

+1

[LiamKerrington]

Would somebody do me a favor and rep this man?
Thanks Liam.

+1

Thank you. And HA! You better re-read my text, 'cause I have put some changes to aka edited it ...

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Thank you. And HA! You better re-read my text, 'cause I have put some changes to aka edited it ...

Okay, it is pun time: Liam, there is no way you are going to pay for the complete collection of WA with your own blood because EVERYONE knows that the veins of a lawyer are filled with (pun, pun!) ink.

Nevertheless, I really like the trailer you have created for your pseudonym, Cpt.!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ8H2csE9bU

[LiamKerrington]

If I could, I would rep you for this link. Yeah, this TV-show was brilliant - at least back then when I was a child. A lot of cool memories being resurrected.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

If I could, I would rep you for this link. Yeah, this TV-show was brilliant - at least back then when I was a child. A lot of cool memories being resurrected.

Guess what, does it not seem at least a bit awkward to reference a TV series which included a living brain (Dr Simon Wright) as a character in a this brain-devouring zombie-forum?

3081

[LiamKerrington]

Guess what, does it not seem at least a bit awkward to reference a TV series which included a living brain (Dr Simon Wright) as a character in a this brain-devouring zombie-forum?

3081

Just the right thing to tease 'em zombos ...