Chapter 43-2 The Darkness Ahead

[nikvoodoo]

Well then.....shall we see Scratch picking off some low lying fruit? Will King Datu the Resourceful have his emotional goodbye with Hope? But most importantly: Will Lester return?????

Ok so that last one is likely not to happen. But those other two......whoa baby!

Happy Monday!

[Witch_Doctor]

First!

[Merlin1274]

Well this should be an interesting Ep.. do we get another 30 min one????
Can't wait to see if Burt and Riley run into Scratch while she is trying to follow the convoy..
But my biggest Question on the mallers.. How many are actually still around? Just those 3? I do not think a lot of them survived the fight at the end of Season 3.

[Grognaurd]

So, I have been thinking about the church image. Several ideas...

The wedding? Yea, the last year has been rough, but are they going to try and hold onto any traditions?
Baptism of the child? See above
Pray for strength? A prayer is a prayer, but many believe a prayer in a church carries more weight. Even if this is discounted, it may bring emotional comfort of the familiar in trying times
A debt? Datu does not change and he considers it a miracle and puts his fix up skills to repairing the house of God

[katlero]

So, I have been thinking about the church image. Several ideas...

The wedding? Yea, the last year has been rough, but are they going to try and hold onto any traditions?
Baptism of the child? See above
Pray for strength? A prayer is a prayer, but many believe a prayer in a church carries more weight. Even if this is discounted, it may bring emotional comfort of the familiar in trying times
A debt? Datu does not change and he considers it a miracle and puts his fix up skills to repairing the house of God

Nope. Datu is going to say his final goodbyes. You know how they say dogs and cats go off to die alone when they know it's time.... I get the feeling it's the same for Datu at this point. A final moment to say goodbye to his kids and family that he knows he will never see again. The picture is too ominous and dark to have happier connotations to it (wedding or baptism).

[beans]

So, I have been thinking about the church image. Several ideas...

The wedding? Yea, the last year has been rough, but are they going to try and hold onto any traditions?
Baptism of the child? See above
Pray for strength? A prayer is a prayer, but many believe a prayer in a church carries more weight. Even if this is discounted, it may bring emotional comfort of the familiar in trying times
A debt? Datu does not change and he considers it a miracle and puts his fix up skills to repairing the house of God

I want to add, maybe a classic church shootout is going down between the remnants of the Mallers and the main cast of the Colony and then the numbered, 'little', pale ones wedding crash it...boy, I do sure love Mondays!

[TacticalJHP]

I want to add, maybe a classic church shootout is going down between the remnants of the Mallers and the main cast of the Colony and then the numbered, 'little', pale ones wedding crash it...boy, I do sure love Mondays!

My thoughts has been that the ambush of the convoy by the mallers will be loud enough to draw the zombies to the scene as well.

[Gnex]

I'm kinda scared about this episode.................

Its raining outside today........ Gloomy and Dull....... nothing good ever happens on those days.........


Crossing my fingers that no one dies today............... :meh:

[TacticalJHP]

I'm kinda scared about this episode.................

Its raining outside today........ Gloomy and Dull....... nothing good ever happens on those days.........


Crossing my fingers that no one dies today............... :meh:

Woke up this morning to either the 3rd or 4th major snow storm of this year. By now, I've lost count...and patience.

[Gnex]

Oooooo and there it is!!!

[Gnex]

Awwww Man!!!!!

I hear Thunder!!!!! Eeeep!!!! :meh:

[TacticalJHP]

Saul, Riley, and Burt....back together again.

Good Times...

[Gnex]

Special Language/Writing!!!! OH EM GEE!!!!!! :tinfoil:

[TacticalJHP]

Special Language/Writing!!!! OH EM GEE!!!!!! :tinfoil:

Wooo!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

:excited::excited::excited::excited::excited::exci ted::excited::excited::excited::excited:

[UndeadSweeper]

Man, that Pete guy is real jerk. :) Anyway so now there a turned only language, so if Tanya and Saul are unable to read then they are ok then?

[UndeadSweeper]

WAIT, because Ink has the tattoo on him he can control them!!!! When they look at him they get a message not to harm him.

[TacticalJHP]

Man, that Pete guy is real jerk. :) Anyway so now there a turned only language, so if Tanya and Saul are unable to read then they are ok then?

That was my first thought....

If Datu can read it, then get Saul and Tanya's ass over there and show them the picture.

There seems to be hope for him after all.

[TacticalJHP]

WAIT, because Ink has the tattoo on him he can control them!!!! When they look at him they get a message not to harm him.

:nik:

Now the only question is....

How did he figure out that, and how to remain in control of himself, before the outbreak...

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I wonder if we will get a post-apocalyptic episode of MTV Cribs - Burt and Riley.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhuVOce2EmU

"Meet Riley and Burt, see how they slaughter tiny innocent rabbits in thier fire station...

http://www.lafire.com/stations/FS001/Photos_1941-0000/FS001_1990-000c_LAFD-OfficialPhoto_FireStation01_1500.jpg

[Storm]

This cliffhanger is just confusing... Cool, but meh... I can live with the extreme Growth in the behemoths/Little ones, but if the Zirus makes you able to read something others can't...Hmmph...
Of course it could just be Datu's own language, but well, why would Ink tattoo himself with that? Unless the stuff Datu spotted was not those symbols.
My first thought was though that he started turning because of the symbols he saw. Still kinda far fetched, but yeah.
Guess we'll find out more next monday. :D

[Merlin1274]

Wow that is interesting to say the least.. His tats, the symbols are a language.. Did he discover some old ancient tablet and decipher it and knew what was coming? Man this just got ancient aliens written all over it..

Tanya has seen the symbols on several occasions.. She got nothing from it.. Which means they are not slow turners.. Datu is.. The address must be the Church.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

WTF does Burt has a goat? What is he doing with it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS-jutv-rh0

[pmchawk]

I just had a thought. What if they are smart enough to build a tunnel? What if the reason the pump isn't working and getting the water pressure they need is because there is a tunnel near by where most of the water is going (path of least resistance) and that is the reason they (Datu, Glen, the other guy) were attacked, fear of discovery.

[HardKor]

Wow. This episode is a thinker...
But let's take this one bit at a time.

Hearing Burt, Riley, and Saul together was great. We find out Burt and Riley have been living it up in luxury, slaughtering fluffy bunnies. Burt has a goat...named dog, apparently. A nice little hurricane of bad goat jokes, had me laughing. We even had a nice little psych out. I thought something nasty was about to go down when that behemoth showed up, then we hear Burt munching Cheetos and everything is alright.

Okay, so now onto Datu.
Michael's narration of Hope and Datu's goodbye sounded pretty sad. I'm starting to doubt my conviction that Datu's gonna pull through this, but I still got one glimmer of hope (no pun intended). If he can lead them to this secret address, there still might be a way to reverse his turning. Not much to go on, but it's something.
And now onto the secret writing that only zombies can read, or whatever it is. Either this story is about turn hard toward magical explanations for stuff...or perhaps it isn't so much that Datu can "read" the symbols, but maybe he can "smell" them. We've had speculation that Ink controls his hoards with some sort of pheromone signature, maybe that's what the "address" on the paper is.

[UndeadSweeper]

I just had a thought. What if they are smart enough to build a tunnel? What if the reason the pump isn't working and getting the water pressure they need is because there is a tunnel near by where most of the water is going (path of least resistance) and that is the reason they (Datu, Glen, the other guy) were attacked, fear of discovery.

They are smart enough to set-up traps but I don't think they were able to use tools.

[Kc]

Okay, so now onto Datu.
Michael's narration of Hope and Datu's goodbye sounded pretty sad. I'm starting to doubt my conviction that Datu's gonna pull through this, but I still got one glimmer of hope (no pun intended). If he can lead them to this secret address, there still might be a way to reverse his turning. Not much to go on, but it's something.
And now onto the secret writing that only zombies can read, or whatever it is. Either this story is about turn hard toward magical explanations for stuff...or perhaps it isn't so much that Datu can "read" the symbols, but maybe he can "smell" them. We've had speculation that Ink controls his hoards with some sort of pheromone signature, maybe that's what the "address" on the paper is.

What Datu saw wasn't the original, but just a copy of it.

[katlero]

I don't think there is anything about ancient tablets or aliens for Ink. I think he knew SOMETHING was up, God knows what, but that for pre-cautions sake, he put a little bit of EVERYTHING on him. Notice there's a little bit from all kinds of stuff all over him. Various religions, science based drawings, heiroglyphics. I think he took a leap of faith, picked the symbols that meant leader or alpha and went for it.

[Witch_Doctor]

OH MY FREAKING GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!!!

This is why I love this show so much. I NEVER saw the language aspect coming. Here I was gloating when I heard that Saul, Burt ans Riley were heading to the Neonatal Section of the hospital. Then Datu starts to read the symbols.

Was he turning?
Did the symbols trigger something?
Has Tanya and Saul seen any of the symbols? (I thought I had EVERY event in W.A. in my memory, but I see I'm gonna have to re-listen to an episode or two, to find out.)
So, Ink does seems to have known what was coming and was prepared for it.

Also, clever shout out to Osiris!!!

[Merlin1274]

Maybe on seeing Ink. They know what they are supposed to do. Ink is a set of instructions.. Copies has less effect.
Could be why Datu just had a bad headache and not full turn..

[Witch_Doctor]

Wow. This episode is a thinker...

And now onto the secret writing that only zombies can read, or whatever it is. Either this story is about turn hard toward magical explanations for stuff...or perhaps it isn't so much that Datu can "read" the symbols, but maybe he can "smell" them. We've had speculation that Ink controls his hoards with some sort of pheromone signature, maybe that's what the "address" on the paper is.


What Datu saw wasn't the original, but just a copy of it.


OK, so that rules out secret invisible.... ink.

[Litmaster]

They are called ZOMBIGLYPHS.

That's right, you heard it here first.


Zombiglyphs is a registered trademark of Litmaster, Inc.

[Footbutt]

poor Datu.
he's going to turn into Ed from Shawn of the Dead, chained up and turned.

[Grognaurd]

So, listening to the goat-joke and I hear a deep thump, like here comes T-Rex. I "shhhhshed" the iPod telling Saul to shut up, lol.

[UndeadSweeper]

I don't think there is anything about ancient tablets or aliens for Ink. I think he knew SOMETHING was up, God knows what, but that for pre-cautions sake, he put a little bit of EVERYTHING on him. Notice there's a little bit from all kinds of stuff all over him. Various religions, science based drawings, heiroglyphics. I think he took a leap of faith, picked the symbols that meant leader or alpha and went for it.

Hmm, sound right.

Also they can't allow Datu to keep reading or it may force a change orTanya need to observe how much his count, I forgot the name of that, while he reads.

[UndeadSweeper]

They are called ZOMBIGLYPHS.

That's right, you heard it here first.


Zombiglyphs is a registered trademark of Litmaster, Inc.

Oh, well I invented ziglyphs and inkglyphs for feel use on the forum.

[HardKor]

What Datu saw wasn't the original, but just a copy of it.

Well then obviously it's......yeah, I got nothing. You've got me stumped Kc. Guess I'm just gonna have to wait to find out what the hell is going on. :squint:

[Gooer]

Guess i'm late to the party, huh?

[UndeadSweeper]

Well then obviously it's......yeah, I got nothing. You've got me stumped Kc. Guess I'm just gonna have to wait to find out what the hell is going on. :squint:

Then can't be a smell, special paper, invisible ink, special liquid or an odor.

[Grognaurd]

OH MY FREAKING GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!!!

Has Tanya and Saul seen any of the symbols? (I thought I had EVERY event in W.A. in my memory, but I see I'm gonna have to re-listen to an episode or two, to find out.) s!!!

I think we only have indirect evidence she did or did not. I remember, Michael asking Kelly if tanya and the colony came up with anything with the list from Raydon Labs. My problem is I do not know if they sent Tanya a fax or if they just spelled the names of the drugs.

[katlero]

Guess i'm late to the party, huh?

You're not late! You're just in time! Ain't no party like a WA party!!!

[Storm]

OK, so that rules out secret invisible.... ink.
I don't even want to imagine how scary
an invisible Ink would be... Damn! *Hides*

[Gooer]

Lol, referencing season 2, with them not finding the right stairs in the hospital.....*sigh*

[Gooer]

Uh oh....Thunder.....

[Gooer]

Hahahaa, Dog the Goat.....fantastic! Gotta love them taking the piss of him....

[TacticalJHP]

Wow that is interesting to say the least.. His tats, the symbols are a language.. Did he discover some old ancient tablet and decipher it and knew what was coming? Man this just got ancient aliens written all over it..

Tanya has seen the symbols on several occasions.. She got nothing from it.. Which means they are not slow turners.. Datu is.. The address must be the Church.

3071

But i still think the church is where he goes to say his final goodbyes.





Hearing Burt, Riley, and Saul together was great. We find out Burt and Riley have been living it up in luxury, slaughtering fluffy bunnies. Burt has a goat...named dog, apparently. A nice little hurricane of bad goat jokes, had me laughing. We even had a nice little psych out. I thought something nasty was about to go down when that behemoth showed up, then we hear Burt munching Cheetos and everything is alright.



Rabbits are tasty, as long as that is not ALL you eat. You can actually starve yourself to death just eating rabbit. It is also called Protein poisoning. Good thing they have chickens! :)

Now, as far as having a goat for a pet.....Yes, that sounds weird when you say it....but it is actually better than it sounds. They are energetic, playful, and downright funny. Now, don't expect soft and cuddly like the rabbits or my cat, but they do mike nice pets.

And, it can be useful. If it is a doe it will provide goat's milk, and it will keep any grass trimmed down.

My brother had several goats before, and has said the best dog he ever had was a goat...But his was not named "Dog."

That said in defense of Burt, the thought of him playing with a goat had me Rolling and laughing. I had to pause the show.

That needs to be the next Photo shoot. :nik:

[Gooer]

Hmmm, another new looking Behemoth, thats also covered in Tattoo's......wonder what it could be.... If it looked like it was covered in tree bark, it probably was keratin overgrowth, like Tanya said.

[Deacon_Tyler]

that needs to be the next photo shoot. :nik:

i'm all over that concept!

Burt...and a goat.

Wait, that sounded bad.

[UndeadSweeper]

So how long before we see/hear Burt's Twisted metal truck?

[Gooer]

Oh dear, Pete's hand got fucked. Swear Datu is cursed....

And we didn't get to hear Hope and Datu's sad farewell.... But the last part was a bit touching. Nearly shed a tear...

[Litmaster]

Wait... if the shopping list that Randy dropped was really a coded address, does that mean Randy was trying to HELP our heroes find Ink?!

[Gooer]

Oh god, Datu can understand the zombie glyphs.....But what was that pain he experienced? His brain changing to understand the glyphs?

God damn, what an amazing GLYPH hanger...... get it? ba dum dum tssssh

[Gooer]

Wait... if the shopping list that Randy dropped was really a coded address, does that mean Randy was trying to HELP our heroes find Ink?!

Maybe he just accidently left it behind: the list was there before they arrived at Raydon, after Randy was there, and after they found the chemicals from Randy

[TacticalJHP]

Hmmm, another new looking Behemoth, thats also covered in Tattoo's......wonder what it could be.... If it looked like it was covered in tree bark, it probably was keratin overgrowth, like Tanya said.

Wonder if they are "pre-Behemoth" or "post-Behemoth" tats?

[Grognaurd]

7odd, time to pull out your Brocca Brain stuff...

We have kicked around te idea that the biters might have a special language. There is no reason a contagion that turns someone into a cannible may not also affect the language center of the brain. We have called it a cognitive disfunction. Pulling in a few diverse threads...

We have speculated that the line from Chapter 1, now that Riley has warned them in their own language, they probably understood that crap was prophetic/foreshadowing.

Kimment says the only way to detect the infection is by autopsy. We have speculated that, this must be a change in the brain morphology. If there was a change in another organ, we can cut someone open and check with some surgery. But, brain surgery is still in its infancy and people do not fare well when we start cutting there.

Did the little ones ever really say something? If we have some people infected and some not nfection, they might hear it differently. So, just like us, was that a ghostbusters EVP or just wishfull thinking.

We get to Datu, what he writes down after the first attack and when he tells the story to Michael, Randy's (?) speech changes in the different chapters. Seems like as Datu had more time to think about it and gets a better understanding out of it as the "infection" progresses.

Even the statement of Tanya to Saul, you cannot turn a frog back into a tadpol. Maybe she saw the beginnings of these changes in Wendy's brain morphology.

[Grognaurd]

WE really did not see anything at the Raydon Labs location that would warrant a level three ID. We have speculated that there is a second facility somewhere that held the big bad stuff. Remember, Michael said the first ones he saw were bruised and scared. That does not describe the general populace. Led some of us to speculate they were escapees from somewhere.

[7oddisdead]

so im honestly not awake enough to really start digging into the whole episode, but...

holy crap am I feeling vindicated for my crackpot ideas right about now..

I told ya, but nobody wanted to listen...

[Witch_Doctor]

Hmmm, another new looking Behemoth, thats also covered in Tattoo's......wonder what it could be.... If it looked like it was covered in tree bark, it probably was keratin overgrowth, like Tanya said.

Yes, anyone remember this poor man?
3072 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/indonesia/tree-man/

He eventually had treatment to remove most, if not all of it.

Also, Tanya mentions the condition she's seen in rabbits (It's called Shope Papilloma virus)

3073 Which is the basis for the Jackalope legend.

[Merlin1274]

Forgot to mention..

Saul had a Voice over. So does that mean anything about his survival? Its been awhile since we heard one from him.. It throws out my theory if he dies.
Since I still think the people still doing active voice overs survive this..

[Gooer]

That was my first thought....

If Datu can read it, then get Saul and Tanya's ass over there and show them the picture.

There seems to be hope for him after all.

No one besides Viktor knows Tanya and Saul might be infected.

[7oddisdead]

just want to say this in big print.
notice the correlation to datu's brain hurting and his reading the address. that's important.
big post coming tonight. lots to talk about

[Gooer]

Yes, anyone remember this poor man?
3072 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/indonesia/tree-man/

He eventually had treatment to remove most, if not all of it.

He's who i was thinking about

[Osiris]

just want to say this in big print.
notice the correlation to datu's brain hurting and his reading the address. that's important.
big post coming tonight. lots to talk about

I trust that means a big BLOG post....

[EpiEpee]

Yes, anyone remember this poor man?
3072 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/indonesia/tree-man/

He eventually had treatment to remove most, if not all of it.

Also, Tanya mentions the condition she's seen in rabbits (It's called Shope Papilloma virus)

3073 Which is the basis for the Jackalope legend.

Cutaneous horn can also show up as more discrete, well, horns. http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/257872/Lady/

Kind of horrifying that it's on a website called funny junk but whatever. And now to make everybody uncomfortable-cutaneous horns can occur anywhere on the body. I have a photo of one on male anatomy that I can't share, but just use your imagination...

[Hoff4D]

So, I have been thinking about the church image. Several ideas...

The wedding? Yea, the last year has been rough, but are they going to try and hold onto any traditions?
Baptism of the child? See above
Pray for strength? A prayer is a prayer, but many believe a prayer in a church carries more weight. Even if this is discounted, it may bring emotional comfort of the familiar in trying times
A debt? Datu does not change and he considers it a miracle and puts his fix up skills to repairing the house of God

Commenting before reading all the pages of commentary, noob mistake number one, but hey guys, I haven't been on in months. And I have a meeting to go to, and I'm the scribe for the meeting minutes so I can't even fake it and read through all of these, so the first page will have to do for now, sorry if I re-iterate someones comments already made

The church? I think it's one of the safe houses/places CJ has set up and it's where the convoy Scratch is presumably tailing is going. There will be a firefight and Scratch will likely take it over as her own, undoubtedly hoping Pegs is part of the crew to come to the unresponsive radio at safe house st peters basilica.

Now the symbols on Ink that Datu can read? I think Kc has grounded us in some sort of reality, so a 'turned only' language is far fetched. The symbols are biblical, I'm talkin old-world/old-testament shit: ARAMAIC. Datu didnt just take night classes for some plumbing repair...he's a linguistics master and a devout catholic.....Or, you know, his native land had some aborginal tribes using similar symbols that he learned a bit about in some history classes growing up, so he recognizes them. This doesnt guarantee Datu's survival, in fact I think he's going to die immdiately. This will leave us to all "guess" the language and spend a few days scavenging libraries in the phillipines history sections.

I stand by some earlier claims I made long long ago. Ink learned of some pre-historic shit, perhaps spoken about in phillipine history. He knew there was this world-wide quake/rupture of haze coming up at some point, and had become obsessed with preserving the human race (or something) through it and tried to modify US to survive it, rather than fight it. So we cope and prevail...but throw in some insanity, obsession, and getting affected by the haze himself, and you've got a recipe for some messed up shit.

I mean, Kalani even said "the ones on the island were even meaner"...we still never address that, and only say these 'special' ones are in LA. So, perhaps there's some aboriginal inks out there as well with not as much chemsitry knowledge running their own personal armies to a similar degree to be noted as 'meaner'.

That's all I got, time for a meeting. Missed all you guys, wish I had the time to read chapters of discussion and catch up, but this will have to do.

[tonyhind86]

Major cliffhanger or what?!

I'm gonna have a read through everyone's theories, then pop back with my own two cents :tinfoil:

[UndeadSweeper]

Major cliffhanger or what?!

I'm gonna have a read through everyone's theories, then pop back with my own two cents :tinfoil:

Tony, we are going need a card for "Dog" :)

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

The address information is a really a tough one. Data usually requires background knowledge in order to understand it. In addition, most of the written information is bound to a specific cultural area, which describes how we perceive information. It all boils down to the well-known triangle of syntax, semantics and existing knowledge. Therefor I have to say that I find it highly unlikely that Datu is suddenly able to comprehend the language while the others do not even find at least some patterns within the symbol pattern.

But on the other side, maybe Ink uses just a sophisticated QR Code.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/QR_Code_Structure_Example_3.svg/400px-QR_Code_Structure_Example_3.svg.png

[tonyhind86]

Tony, we are going need a card for "Dog" :)

Absolutely! We can add him to the animal collection along with Lady, Mr Whiskers, Mr Moo-urn's calf and Saul's chicken. :nik:

[UndeadSweeper]

Also CJ's cats, the ones that pee on Vic's bed. :D

[Gooer]

Mr Moo-urn's calf

Isn't a female cow. You know, cuz it has a calf.....

[tonyhind86]

Isn't a female cow. You know, cuz it has a calf.....

Either I misspelt the cow's title, or acknowledged the notion that this particular male cow can birth its own offspring :nik:

[Gooer]

Either I misspelt the cow's title, or acknowledged the notion that this particular male cow can birth its own offspring :nik:

I'd be damn impressed if they found an asexual breeding cow...... but maybe its an side-effect of the virus (or whatever)

[Litmaster]

Oh god, Datu can understand the zombie glyphs.....But what was that pain he experienced? His brain changing to understand the glyphs?

God damn, what an amazing GLYPH hanger...... get it? ba dum dum tssssh

Yuk! That joke was BAAAAAAAAAA-D! :nik:




Regarding the glyphs, if they are key to controlling the zeds, somehow, then they better get some translators on that ASAP and start writing zombie wards all over the walls of the Colony and Dunbar! If I were Micheal & Co., the first thing I'd be doing is finding the zombiglyph for "NOT FOOD" and Sharpie-ing that bitch on my forehead!

This plot is somewhat resembling another book I read that has to do with monsters, painted symbols, and a man covered head to toe in tattoos...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lA%2BHuSMnL._SY344_PJlook-inside-v2,TopRight,1,0_SH20_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Merlin1274]

It is an ancient language. We hashed that out with the symbols before. Some are ancient Egypt to some feel are angelic. Maybe some of it is primitive before a real spoken language. could be why they moan and groan and scream..LOL... Who knows what is going on in KC's mind.. I was being funny about ancient aliens but I still think its something archaic. Something he some how knew about, was coming. From old books, tablets, scrolls, etc.. This is what is awesome about this podcast.. When you think you may have it figured out. KC throws us for a loop.

[UndeadSweeper]

I wondering if there were a way to cover the tattoo would the zombie attack Ink? Maybe a can of paint Home Alone style?

[Verse]

My guess on the new behemoth.... Tat'd up as he is phase 2. My guess is that Ink worked on ppl outside the jail that was not as freaking nuts/anti-social. This was on of them. Ink couldn't tattoo the ones in the jail up because they were mean as crap. These are more docile and easier to study.

I will say this. If the Zeds have some kinda language that they learn when they are turned (Not taught. I would be ok with that, but just bite and learn) I will be pissed. Not upset. Not disliking. Pissed. Mainly because it goes against the tone that has been set from day one. The Zeds are biological in nature. They make sense within the world and are plausable. Thus why we don't have flying Zeds and multiheaded hydras and what ever else. No mind powers or Matrix stuff. Just biologocal and focused. Thicker bones, pumping more blood via changed heart, ect. To have a change that makes you have a language just appear in your head to read goes to the Supernatural. I am ok with the Occult symbols on Ink b/c it is just symbols. Religious stuff. He has never called down the rain and fire from the sky. No different than ppl tattooing crosses and such to themselves. If now we introduce a Magic element to this thing in the last half of the last season.. I will go WTF. At this time I will give KC my trust. Nothing has happened so far that I have not been ok with. Even finding out Bill Roberts and Ink are the same when I thought it was crap (I had to use a new keypad at work and took like 5 trys to get it right... so I gave KC a pass on Ink having an issue when I thought it was stuid at the time) I was ok with in time. So.. I will be patient.

That being said.....

Datu is the only person in the whole show that has been shown to be religious. He lead the prayers when the tower was falling, burying Glenn, ect. Only other time I can think of is Angel made a one off comment about "Its been a long time since Catholic School". Thats it. No one else. Always Datu.

My guess is that Datu knows the church. That it is in his native tongue or from his background.

[Litmaster]

Wonder if they are "pre-Behemoth" or "post-Behemoth" tats?

That's an interesting question, especially given that we don't know of any other zeds that have glyph tattoos other than Ink and Randy. Even the Little Ones only had the numbers, which cannot mean much of anything other than numeration, so why the big guy with tats? What could the tats mean??

I'm guessing one of them probably says something like...


http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061116195704/wikiality/images/e/e0/BadAssMotherFuckerWallet.JPG

[Gooer]

Yuk! That joke was BAAAAAAAAAA-D! :nik:




Regarding the glyphs, if they are key to controlling the zeds, somehow, then they better get some translators on that ASAP and start writing zombie wards all over the walls of the Colony and Dunbar! If I were Micheal & Co., the first thing I'd be doing is finding the zombiglyph for "NOT FOOD" and Sharpie-ing that bitch on my forehead!

This plot is somewhat resembling another book I read that has to do with monsters, painted symbols, and a man covered head to toe in tattoos...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lA%2BHuSMnL._SY344_PJlook-inside-v2,TopRight,1,0_SH20_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

I try :britt:

Oh god, i hope this doesn't turn into a "we know what controls them so we can control them now" kind of thing...

[Vlarken]

Now the symbols on Ink that Datu can read? I think Kc has grounded us in some sort of reality, so a 'turned only' language is far fetched. The symbols are biblical, I'm talkin old-world/old-testament shit: ARAMAIC. Datu didnt just take night classes for some plumbing repair...he's a linguistics master and a devout catholic.....Or, you know, his native land had some aborginal tribes using similar symbols that he learned a bit about in some history classes growing up, so he recognizes them. This doesnt guarantee Datu's survival, in fact I think he's going to die immdiately. This will leave us to all "guess" the language and spend a few days scavenging libraries in the phillipines history sections.


I like the idea of a turned-only language, even if it is far fetched. I'm super into linguistics, so Datu's being able to read this stuff intrigues the hell out of me, and I can't wait to find out the reason. At first I thought that the address was just in Latin, and Datu could of course read it because, being a practicing Catholic, he knows at least a bit of Latin. However, I missed that the address was in symbols and not in the Latin alphabet.

Many of the languages spoken in the Philippines are in similar families to languages spoken in Hawaii. After some flitting about with Wikipedia and google images (because, while I love linguistics, I'm not very familiar with these languages; I'm more into the Indo-European languages) I found out that Tagalog is originally written in a script that seems a little like what Puck was describing. I haven't really been keeping up with the forum lately, so I don't know if someone has already posted something like this. If they did, apologies. If not, take a look.

3074

[Litmaster]

I try :britt:

Oh god, i hope this doesn't turn into a "we know what controls them so we can control them now" kind of thing...



However... do we know that these glyphs actually CONTROL the Zeds?? So far the only concrete evidence we have is Datu getting a headache when he reads the Zombie Adress, but that could simply be a reaction to his Zed blood kicking in. As far as I know, we don't have solid evidence that the glyphs act as magical wards that COMMAND Zeds to do this or that. Sure, Ink has all the tats, but to assume that he has done that to control the other Zeds might be a leap in logic...

[UndeadSweeper]

I believe they are read something from the tattoo, , I remember someone said that one of those symbol meaning protecting.

Also why put all those symbol on prison door if it wasn't a message to those not to touch these or only give this chemical to that one.

[Verse]

I like the idea of a turned-only language, even if it is far fetched. I'm super into linguistics, so Datu's being able to read this stuff intrigues the hell out of me, and I can't wait to find out the reason. At first I thought that the address was just in Latin, and Datu could of course read it because, being a practicing Catholic, he knows at least a bit of Latin. However, I missed that the address was in symbols and not in the Latin alphabet.

Many of the languages spoken in the Philippines are in similar families to languages spoken in Hawaii. After some flitting about with Wikipedia and google images (because, while I love linguistics, I'm not very familiar with these languages; I'm more into the Indo-European languages) I found out that Tagalog is originally written in a script that seems a little like what Puck was describing. I haven't really been keeping up with the forum lately, so I don't know if someone has already posted something like this. If they did, apologies. If not, take a look.

3074

I was just about to post this same thing.

[Grognaurd]

Well, Datu translates to Chief. Many of the other characters had similar translations to their names. Our problem is if it is not a function of he disease, then we have to link Datu to Ink, randy or something, but it has to be so obscure that many of the characters have no clue and do not recognize it. I do not know Greek, Viking or Russian, but I could say that looks like XYZ.

There is one very tenuous link that I can make. It is obscure and indirect. After they clean out the tower the second time with Burt's arrival. They are cleaning out those nasty bodies that Michael describes. Datu says that it is OK, I have cleaned up worse. Very strange.

Let's get obscure again. When Pegs over hears that they are going to kill Marcus, one of the statements is, you have to make it look like one of THEM did it. Have fun! Strange. He is supposed to kill, eat or make it look like it was eaten and ave fun???

So, zombie rewriting the brain? Datu is part of some bizzaro cult? Christian writing coud be in Greek, Coptic or Latin, but those are not very obscure. Angelic Script? I will cogitate on this some more

[UndeadSweeper]

Well, Datu translates to Chief. Many of the other characters had similar translations to their names. Our problem is if it is not a function of he disease, then we have to link Datu to Ink, randy or something, but it has to be so obscure that many of the characters have no clue and do not recognize it. I do not know Greek, Viking or Russian, but I could say that looks like XYZ.

There is one very tenuous link that I can make. It is obscure and indirect. After they clean out the tower the second time with Burt's arrival. They are cleaning out those nasty bodies that Michael describes. Datu says that it is OK, I have cleaned up worse. Very strange.

Let's get obscure again. When Pegs over hears that they are going to kill Marcus, one of the statements is, you have to make it look like one of THEM did it. Have fun! Strange. He is supposed to kill, eat or make it look like it was eaten and ave fun???

So, zombie rewriting the brain? Datu is part of some bizzaro cult? Christian writing coud be in Greek, Coptic or Latin, but those are not very obscure. Angelic Script? I will cogitate on this some more


The only problem that I have with have a secret language is how would Datu and Randy be able to read the same code if neither are familiar with that language? Whoever drop the shopping list at Raydon would have to know what was written on that sheet as well.

[Jannit]

I believe they are read something from the tattoo, , I remember someone said that one of those symbol meaning protecting.

Also why put all those symbol on prison door if it wasn't a message to those not to touch these or only give this chemical to that one.

The symbols relating to protection were found on Ink's face and two seem to have been used on the doors. I've been meaning to update the wiki with the information people brought up in some of the last few threads but life has been kicking my asss.

The symbols on the doors in the prison were:
1. A three-lined rainbow with a five-lined fan beneath it - no explanation yet
2. A fish on fire - no explanation yet
3. Snake - Appears in the veve for Damballah Wedo
4. Bird foot - If this is the rune for Odin, it does mean protection.
5. Cross with a triangle - Alchemical marking for sulphur
6. Egyptian eye - Eye of Horus: to make or do" or "one who does".] In Egyptian myth the eye was not the passive organ of sight but more an agent of action, protection or wrath.

I'll try to get back to posting more and making those updates to the wiki in the near future. :(

[Gnex]

3071

But i still think the church is where he goes to say his final goodbyes.


Could be he goes to the church because he thinks he is possessed because he can now read/see a language that no one else can........

[Gnex]

What Datu saw wasn't the original, but just a copy of it.


Well then obviously it's......yeah, I got nothing. You've got me stumped Kc. Guess I'm just gonna have to wait to find out what the hell is going on. :squint:

I think the reference to this being a copy and not the original was a reply to someone stating that maybe the paper had some kind of pheromone's or something on it....

I think KC is basically says that whatever is cause Datu pain/trouble is definately something visual..... since he experiences the pain when he looks at the page, but as soon as he look away it starts to fade....

[Kc]

I will say this. If the Zeds have some kinda language that they learn when they are turned (Not taught. I would be ok with that, but just bite and learn) I will be pissed. Not upset. Not disliking. Pissed. Mainly because it goes against the tone that has been set from day one. The Zeds are biological in nature. They make sense within the world and are plausable. Thus why we don't have flying Zeds and multiheaded hydras and what ever else. No mind powers or Matrix stuff. Just biologocal and focused. Thicker bones, pumping more blood via changed heart, ect. To have a change that makes you have a language just appear in your head to read goes to the Supernatural. I am ok with the Occult symbols on Ink b/c it is just symbols. Religious stuff. He has never called down the rain and fire from the sky. No different than ppl tattooing crosses and such to themselves. If now we introduce a Magic element to this thing in the last half of the last season.. I will go WTF. At this time I will give KC my trust. Nothing has happened so far that I have not been ok with. Even finding out Bill Roberts and Ink are the same when I thought it was crap (I had to use a new keypad at work and took like 5 trys to get it right... so I gave KC a pass on Ink having an issue when I thought it was stuid at the time) I was ok with in time. So.. I will be patient.


You didn't like that Ink and Bill Roberts are the same?

And just curious, but did you feel the same way when the characters theorized that they could communicate?

(BTW, I'm not saying that Verse is right or wrong about his theory, I'm just curious his reaction to something previous in the story)

[7oddisdead]

I think more people should research how this sort of thing could be possible before judging if its supernatural or not. Also, while this story 90% science based and does a good job at keeping to that...at some point we have to go off those rails.

#becausezombies

the beauty if neurological science is in a way it is like magic. The general public (certainly including myself here) cannot even begin to wrap their brains around how the brain works. So who amongst us wants to get ahold of Steve novella?? He'll set this shit straight. *darn tootin'

[tonyhind86]

I'm still waiting for the introduction of the Gods of Olympus into the story. It sure would explain Victor's past :nik:

[Kartappus]

english is not my mother tong so i have to say sorry for the bad spellin stuff, but could it be that randy some how infectit Datu with he's Zombie D N A just to help the guys?
I don't know why but somehow i think he is still in there wanting to help.
And he some how discovered that this should be the best way.
noing that infecting datu should give Michael a key to the markings or something :d.

[Grognaurd]

A woman I worked with had a son born with Aphasia. He cannot and will never be able to understand language. He cannot talk, he cannot write or sign. He does not understand language spoken to him. His brain just cannot put it together. He can point at ice cream, but cannot understand would you like ice cream. But, if you point at the ice cream he will understand.

We know there are changes in the eye. So, their perception might be different. Remember those images that became popular about 20 years ago. To most people it just looks like a repeating pattern. I can see the three dimensional image that is encoded within it. It is not something I learned, I just saw it pop out while other people were saying what are you talking about???

http://www.wallsave.com/wallpaper/1024x768/stereogram-d-optical-illusion-hd-250374.html

For example, this is a small helicopter, like the ones they use for local traffic.

What do you see?

[Verse]

You didn't like that Ink and Bill Roberts are the same?

And just curious, but did you feel the same way when the characters theorized that they could communicate?

(BTW, I'm not saying that Verse is right or wrong about his theory, I'm just curious his reaction to something previous in the story)

I didn't like that Bill and Ink were the same at first. I was hung up on him having issues with the key pad. I felt that someone that smart should not have that many issues with something like a Key pad. Didn't make sense..... Then we got a new keypad at work. And it took like 5-6 triesfor me to get it right. Then I went "God Dammit... KC had a point...." Then I was ok with it and it all made sense.

As far as when the Characters tossed out the ideas... I was/am ok with that. They don't have all the info we do. They are shooting blind. We know everything they know, but a lot of them do not know everything each of them know. They don't have the option of going back and listening to past episodes on the fly. Kinda like Saul not remembering Raydon labs when we went "BURT TALKED ABOUT THAT YOU JACKASS!!!!" we know b/c we have a forums with flawless ability to go back and find details where he simply didn't remember because it was something said in passing a year ago in his time.

I believe they have a "Language" like an animal does or a child. When my sons were younger (and still do as the oldest is only 4) I can tell you what each of their cries are. When they were infants I could tell you what a Hungy Cry was...a Sad Cry was.... a Lonely Cry was... ect. Same with my dog. I can tell you what each howl is. I think they can communiate much the same. With grunts/howls/crys and body language to add effect.

I am just not behind a written language that is known after a bite. Like when you are bite you learn how to read Latin. (Although there are tons of studies on Blood Memory and DNA and such)

Not brown nosing or kissing ass, but so far everything you have done I have gotten behind. Nothing done so far has made me go "Nope. This is jackassery". So if it is the case that Datu now knows Zombie Text after being bite I am sure you will have a good idea. I am just not a fan of a Magic element and I fear it oh so very much. B/C when that is added all bets are off. Anything goes. There is no longer a set of rules.


SIDE NOTE THAT IS RELATED: I am betting that Datu is seeing something in his language like Tagalog. I was looking at it when Vlarken mentioned it and beat me to posting a pic of the language. I am betting the pain was Datu's mind shutting down his language area to become more animal like.

[Kc]

http://www.wallsave.com/wallpaper/1024x768/stereogram-d-optical-illusion-hd-250374.html

For example, this is a small helicopter, like the ones they use for local traffic.


I see it. I used to love these things. Took me a while to see them, but I learned how to refocus my eyes. It came in handy in one where's waldo (The hollywood one), trying to find the statues that were different. The changes BLINKED when you used the magic eye principle and made the pattern merge into one.

[Litmaster]

I don't think we're going beyond the realm of plausibility with this Zed language thing, but there should be a damn good reason justifying why Zeds are suddenly 'controlled' by some markings on a wall, or tattooed on some skin, or something like that.

Kc has done an exemplary job thus far, but with this 'Zombie Language' issue, he appears to have many fans ready to cry, "Boooooooowlsheeeeiit!!!"

[Verse]

I think we (The Fans) are jumping the gun in some regards. KC has always been really good at solid cliff hangers. Datu said they couldn't read but hinted he could and he had a head ache.... then cliff hanger. Much like when Saul sounded like he was going to give up Pegs or when Micheal went "We have to abandon the Tower!" both were hard bait and switchs. All we know is that Datu could read it and they couldn't and he had a head ache. That has turned into Symbols controlling him... Ink's Tat's controling them... his new Tree Zombie controlled via tattoos.

It could easily be a bait and switch where it is in a regular language he knows and part of his change that just so happened to happen when he started to look at something.

Still very very scared of Magic though...

[UndeadSweeper]

I don't think we're going beyond the realm of plausibility with this Zed language thing, but there should be a damn good reason justifying why Zeds are suddenly 'controlled' by some markings on a wall, or tattooed on some skin, or something like that.

Kc has done an exemplary job thus far, but with this 'Zombie Language' issue, he appears to have many fans ready to cry, "Boooooooowlsheeeeiit!!!"

But, we has human are in a way controlled by marking and sign as well. When you are drive don't you stop at a red light or stop sign? Aren't you careful at a railroad when you see the railroad sign?

[Verse]

But, we has human are in a way controlled by marking and sign as well. When you are drive don't you stop at a red light or stop sign? Aren't you careful at a railroad when you see the railroad sign?

Thats also because we are taught that. It is something learned through teaching not a flesh wound.

[TacticalJHP]

http://www.wallsave.com/wallpaper/1024x768/stereogram-d-optical-illusion-hd-250374.html

For example, this is a small helicopter, like the ones they use for local traffic.

What do you see?

Well, just before it caused a seizure, i am pretty sure it was a little bird-style helicopter.

That was a new one.

Now, i'm going to go write that one down.

[UndeadSweeper]

Thats also because we are taught that. It is something learned through teaching not a flesh wound.

But this virus is affecting the mind, so it could be also reprogram it to see things that we normal wouldn't noticed before. I think of it like the time you a driving down the same road over and over again. But when you sit on the passenger side of the car you notice a building or area that you never noticed before.

[Litmaster]

I think we (The Fans) are jumping the gun in some regards. KC has always been really good at solid cliff hangers. Datu said they couldn't read but hinted he could and he had a head ache.... then cliff hanger. Much like when Saul sounded like he was going to give up Pegs or when Micheal went "We have to abandon the Tower!" both were hard bait and switchs. All we know is that Datu could read it and they couldn't and he had a head ache. That has turned into Symbols controlling him... Ink's Tat's controling them... his new Tree Zombie controlled via tattoos.

It could easily be a bait and switch where it is in a regular language he knows and part of his change that just so happened to happen when he started to look at something.

Still very very scared of Magic though...


No, well Kc has earned a lot of 'street cred' as far as I'm concerned, but that still doesn't mean I am willing to swallow horse-piss passed off as storytelling. He has set the bar really high; much higher than shows like "The Walking Dead", where they throw shit against the wall nearly every episode and hope it will stick. But because of that high bar, the fans have accordingly come to expect much from this story in the way of continuity and believability. We're coming to the final end, now.... I just hope he can stick the landing.

[Verse]

But this virus is affecting the mind, so it could be also reprogram it to see things that we normal wouldn't noticed before.

Maybe. I can get behind that in some areas. We know there are biological changes. I would not be surprised if how they see things are changed. Seeing things and understanding are different though. I can get behind something like your mental changes give you something like dyslexia. What looks like out of order looks normal to them. I can't see a mental change that allows them to see differently and translate into a new language they do not know. Written language is a complex thing. Look at English. We have There/Their/They're. To see a few scratchs and swirls and go "Ah. They are saying to only eat the people with brown hair behind the taco bell" is a bit to far without being taught.

[TacticalJHP]

But this virus is affecting the mind, so it could be also reprogram it to see things that we normal wouldn't noticed before. I think of it like the time you a driving down the same road over and over again. But when you sit on the passenger side of the car you notice a building or area that you never noticed before.


Maybe. I can get behind that in some areas. We know there are biological changes. I would not be surprised if how they see things are changed. Seeing things and understanding are different though. I can get behind something like your mental changes give you something like dyslexia. What looks like out of order looks normal to them. I can't see a mental change that allows them to see differently and translate into a new language they do not know. Written language is a complex thing. Look at English. We have There/Their/They're. To see a few scratchs and swirls and go "Ah. They are saying to only eat the people with brown hair behind the taco bell" is a bit to far without being taught.

You know, this would all make so much more sense if the outbreak was a man-made thing, and not a natureal occurance.

Then it could have Many things programmed into it... but something just visual to trigger the response.

Everyone would need an Eye of Horus tattooed on them in the end...

[Witch_Doctor]

When I first heard Datu begin to say he can read the paper Micheal had, I thought that he was going to say that he understood the symbols, Dan Brown-style. But the dramatic music and his headache lead me to think he meant that there was a zombieglyph aspect. BUT, like Hoff4d says, KC has this story grounded in a naturalistic reality. So, Datu suddenly understanding an aggregate of ancient symbols that happen to spell out an address, seems a bit supernaturalish.

Not, it wouldn't make a very good story for there to be a hidden zombie language that Ink uses to communicate and protect himself, especially if our heroes can use it to their advantage. Yet, KC does it to us again, there are a number of ways this story could go:

Datu is Robert Langdon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Langdon) or Datu is all of a sudden wearing the One Ring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_ring).

We're about to learn about Datu's academic past or learn that Ink knew about the impending apocalypse and how to control zombies.

This episode did start with characters talking about what others did for a living pre-outbreak. This could foreshadow discussion of Datu's past.

Yet, it seems that Ink uses the symbols to communicate with the zombies.


KC, you leave me stumped every week.

[Verse]

No, well Kc has earned a lot of 'street cred' as far as I'm concerned, but that still doesn't mean I am willing to swallow horse-piss passed off as storytelling. He has set the bar really high; much higher than shows like "The Walking Dead", where they throw shit against the wall nearly every episode and hope it will stick. But because of that high bar, the fans have accordingly come to expect much from this story in the way of continuity and believability. We're coming to the final end, now.... I just hope he can stick the landing.

Seeing it written that way expresses what I would be pissed at an Zed Insta-Know language. Couldn't have explained it better myself.

[UndeadSweeper]

Maybe. I can get behind that in some areas. We know there are biological changes. I would not be surprised if how they see things are changed. Seeing things and understanding are different though. I can get behind something like your mental changes give you something like dyslexia. What looks like out of order looks normal to them. I can't see a mental change that allows them to see differently and translate into a new language they do not know. Written language is a complex thing. Look at English. We have There/Their/They're. To see a few scratchs and swirls and go "Ah. They are saying to only eat the people with brown hair behind the taco bell" is a bit to far without being taught.

That the thing is bothering me, is this a complex language thing? How can Datu and person who drop the shopping list able to read the same thing? What cause the zombie outside Ink's police's van stop in their place and just stare at him.

[BunnyButters]

Commenting before reading all the pages of commentary, noob mistake number one, but hey guys, I haven't been on in months. And I have a meeting to go to, and I'm the scribe for the meeting minutes so I can't even fake it and read through all of these, so the first page will have to do for now, sorry if I re-iterate someones comments already made

The church? I think it's one of the safe houses/places CJ has set up and it's where the convoy Scratch is presumably tailing is going. There will be a firefight and Scratch will likely take it over as her own, undoubtedly hoping Pegs is part of the crew to come to the unresponsive radio at safe house st peters basilica.

Now the symbols on Ink that Datu can read? I think Kc has grounded us in some sort of reality, so a 'turned only' language is far fetched. The symbols are biblical, I'm talkin old-world/old-testament shit: ARAMAIC. Datu didnt just take night classes for some plumbing repair...he's a linguistics master and a devout catholic.....Or, you know, his native land had some aborginal tribes using similar symbols that he learned a bit about in some history classes growing up, so he recognizes them. This doesnt guarantee Datu's survival, in fact I think he's going to die immdiately. This will leave us to all "guess" the language and spend a few days scavenging libraries in the phillipines history sections.

I stand by some earlier claims I made long long ago. Ink learned of some pre-historic shit, perhaps spoken about in phillipine history. He knew there was this world-wide quake/rupture of haze coming up at some point, and had become obsessed with preserving the human race (or something) through it and tried to modify US to survive it, rather than fight it. So we cope and prevail...but throw in some insanity, obsession, and getting affected by the haze himself, and you've got a recipe for some messed up shit.

I mean, Kalani even said "the ones on the island were even meaner"...we still never address that, and only say these 'special' ones are in LA. So, perhaps there's some aboriginal inks out there as well with not as much chemsitry knowledge running their own personal armies to a similar degree to be noted as 'meaner'.

That's all I got, time for a meeting. Missed all you guys, wish I had the time to read chapters of discussion and catch up, but this will have to do.


I really like the biblical language theory, and yeah Datu being studied in linguistics - too much of a coincidence!? However, this does not explain why his head hurt. And there did seem to be a strong correlation between his reading of the symbols and the head pain. OR this is just his impending death so that we don't find out what the address is. OR Ink can control them and this is one way!?
I hope your theory is the correct one. It would give Datu some serious outgoing credit as a great character!
We shall see!

[UndeadSweeper]

Does anyone remember what Datu was studying or going to night school for? I thought he said something in passing in the first season.

[BunnyButters]

Does anyone remember what Datu was studying or going to night school for? I thought he said something in passing in the first season.

I just read it was linguistics!

[Verse]

That is my worry. What were the marks? If you look at some languages (Like Tagalog for example) it looks like marks. That is why I am worried. I do not like the Magic Insta-Language idea that this...

[UndeadSweeper]

I was going to agree with you, but have we ever seen Randy in a group of zombie before? Everything we noticed him he is working alone never really surround by a group.

[Verse]

I was going to agree with you, but have we ever seen Randy in a group of zombie before? Everything we noticed him he is working alone never really surround by a group.

When he tried to grab Tanya near the end of Season 2 he was with a group.

[Kc]

Until we know that there is a Magic Insta-Language

I so want to comment at this point, but I think I'll just let this play out and let you all figure it out as we go. All I'll say is I don't like "magic" stuff or telepathy, or hive-mind stuff.

[Verse]

You can comment KC. It can be our secret. No one will know... unless they read the post... but I am sure they will just gloss over that one.

[beans]

Love it! "Bert the Toolman Taylor" & the writers' genius of addressing the 'cursed Mata-Gun' (either foreseeing that would happen or really following our comments, either end is awesome!).

On another note, will we see the unveiling of zombie catacombs? A la the cracks in ground zero?

[TacticalJHP]

After listening to the episode for the 4th time, and browsing through the comments on the forum, I push back from the computer.

"Now what do I do for another week?"

I look to my left, and there is two firearms in need of repair.

I look to my right, and there is my girlfriend. I don't know how long she has been there.

"Oh, right. Real life does exist."

Damn you KC.

[Gooer]

Does anyone remember what Datu was studying or going to night school for? I thought he said something in passing in the first season.

It was for his contracting license.

[7oddisdead]

I so want to comment at this point, but I think I'll just let this play out and let you all figure it out as we go. All I'll say is I don't like "magic" stuff or telepathy, or hive-mind stuff.


all I read was -I don't like the hive-

sad panda :(

[Litmaster]

Seeing things and understanding are different though. I can get behind something like your mental changes give you something like dyslexia. What looks like out of order looks normal to them. I can't see a mental change that allows them to see differently and translate into a new language they do not know. Written language is a complex thing. Look at English. We have There/Their/They're. To see a few scratchs and swirls and go "Ah. They are saying to only eat the people with brown hair behind the taco bell" is a bit to far without being taught.


When I first heard Datu begin to say he can read the paper Micheal had, I thought that he was going to say that he understood the symbols, Dan Brown-style. But the dramatic music and his headache lead me to think he meant that there was a zombieglyph aspect. BUT, like Hoff4d says, KC has this story grounded in a naturalistic reality. So, Datu suddenly understanding an aggregate of ancient symbols that happen to spell out an address, seems a bit supernaturalish.

Not, it wouldn't make a very good story for there to be a hidden zombie language that Ink uses to communicate and protect himself, especially if our heroes can use it to their advantage.


Seeing it written that way expresses what I would be pissed at an Zed Insta-Know language. Couldn't have explained it better myself.


That the thing is bothering me, is this a complex language thing? How can Datu and person who drop the shopping list able to read the same thing? What cause the zombie outside Ink's police's van stop in their place and just stare at him.


I really like the biblical language theory, and yeah Datu being studied in linguistics - too much of a coincidence!? However, this does not explain why his head hurt. And there did seem to be a strong correlation between his reading of the symbols and the head pain. OR this is just his impending death so that we don't find out what the address is. OR Ink can control them and this is one way!?


I so want to comment at this point, but I think I'll just let this play out and let you all figure it out as we go. All I'll say is I don't like "magic" stuff or telepathy, or hive-mind stuff.


Well, this really starts to get into my territory now, given that my profession is a reading specialist. One thing I know about language, written language in particular, is that it is not 'natural' in the sense that it must be learned. No child is born knowing how to read. Nor is there any such thing as an instantaneous transmission of the knowledge one needs to effectively decode phonetic symbols into meaning.

So given that Kc is not into 'magic', 'telepathy', or 'hive-mind' stuff... I would have to say, in my professional opinion, that I have no fucking idea how Datu could possibly 'read' the Zombiglyphs simply from being infected with a Zed virus or whatever.

Damn you, Kc! You better have a real solid explanation for this or out come the torches and pitchforks!!! :mad:

[Witch_Doctor]

Does anyone remember what Datu was studying or going to night school for? I thought he said something in passing in the first season.

He was taking night classes for his contractor's license.

[Grognaurd]

Ok, so on one side we have the zombie code and possible changes in the brain. Swing it back the other way to the most mundane explanation. The symbols may be mason marks or something. A fraternal organization that Datu and others might have been part of. Nothing nefarious. Just a plain old society like mason, lyons or Shriners. No illuminati, new world order conspiracy, just a club.

Or, something darker. Kalani, Datu, Durai, etc. all these translate to chief or leader. Hell, even Saul is a hebrew king and Cohen, the guy who tattooed Ink, is hebrew for priest, Make it more of an old school family type connection. Almost everybody is in on the conspiracy, and that is what Michael is writing about.

Switching gears. Didn't Saul say Victor was a broker in this episode? Did he tell Michael he was an insurance salesman? Similar, but not the same. A chink in a background lie?

[UndeadSweeper]

So what would Datu a pre-contractor , Randy an engineer and Ink a former Raydon employee all have in common? Latin words, how to create things, Autodesk??

[UndeadSweeper]

Ok, so on one side we have the zombie code and possible changes in the brain. Swing it back the other way to the most mundane explanation. The symbols may be mason marks or something. A fraternal organization that Datu and others might have been part of. Nothing nefarious. Just a plain old society like mason, lyons or Shriners. No illuminati, new world order conspiracy, just a club.

Or, something darker. Kalani, Datu, Durai, etc. all these translate to chief or leader. Hell, even Saul is a hebrew king and Cohen, the guy who tattooed Ink, is hebrew for priest, Make it more of an old school family type connection. Almost everybody is in on the conspiracy, and that is what Michael is writing about.

Switching gears. Didn't Saul say Victor was a broker in this episode? Did he tell Michael he was an insurance salesman? Similar, but not the same. A chink in a background lie?

Oh, a person can be an Insurance broker which can also mean an insurance agent or salesman. Well, at least in my area. Also Saul isn't always 100% credible on remembering things. :D

[7oddisdead]

ya know, ive got to say...im really disappointed in all the nay-saying on the language thing. i'll be meandering my way to a point as I go along here..

first, lets look at "symbols" (im generalizing here) lets think of some symbols from history. perhaps the most notorious and well known of all...
http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm

the swastika began its life as a symbol of "good" -literally translated into "to be good"...today however, its meaning has been run through the proverbial gutter. all of us now see that symbol and only think of the negative, when the simple truth is, only a fraction of its time in use has had anything remotely close to that meaning.

theres multiple symbols throughout history that have had multiple meanings, or not even the meanings generally associated with them.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18606_8-historic-symbols-that-mean-opposite-what-you-think.html?wa_user1=3&wa_user2=History&wa_user3=article&wa_user4=recommended

what does this have to do with our symbols? well, consider this...everyone wants to comment about/or compare to the learning variables with insta-zombie language...simple fact. none of the characters we are speculating on are exactly dullards. the learning curve for datu, like randy..and certainly ink for that matter...is not nearly as intense as the common biter.

*its at this point I wanted to go on a tangent about brain disorders, and the absolute uncertainty we as "armchair-scientists" have when it come to neuro-science. the idea of a brain disorder being a part of the effects of whatever the hell is happening here in no means seems far fetched to me, simply because of how little we know about the mind. but...I feel like whatever I say about it will cause the glazed over eyes effect. I wont waste my time.*

I feel like the idea of a separate form of understanding from what we know as our language is totally plausible, all things considered. how the brain interprets images and information is what our entire reality is made of. the words im typing right now are only read by all of us as that< - because of how our brains are wired, all of us wired similarly...with that in mind, imagine if that were not the case? imagine if what we see as "X" all the sudden means "sun". its not a change in our interpretation of X, its a change in the way those infected interpret it. I will drop one science-y thing...follow this link!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia

its not a matter of a "zombie language" so to speak, just a different way of communicating. everyone is WAY overthinking this.

todd-0

[7oddisdead]

all that above said...it could easily just be written in tagalog. although, the setup for the cliffhanger to this episode wouldn't make much sense, were that the case.

also, NOBODY seems to mention petes comments about datu having the pump all messed up. yes, stress could just be weighing on him...but what I have to wonder is what if he was reading his directions and blueprints for the windmill with his "zombie brain"?

heh...so much cool shit in this episode. it all just gets buried beneath the elephant in the room. really liked this one

[Storm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia

its not a matter of a "zombie language" so to speak, just a different way of communicating. everyone is WAY overthinking this.

todd-0
I have grapheme-color synaesthesia... (Was sighted for eight years before I went blind, so I do know colors)... Reading braille is quite annoying after a few pages, so I tend to avoid it.
Let's take Kc Wayland as an example. Colors would be:
White, orange, dark blue/greenish, white, black, dark green, white, dark brownish, black.
When I say "red" you imagine the color, at least I'd guess so. Imagine doing that every time you see the letter B or S too. It can be nice though, remembering spelling of different long words is quite easy.
I had memorized about 500 digits of Pi about 10 months ago, haven't written them down for some time, so back to about 200 at this moment.

Synaesthesia is a really interesting subject... You can actually taste the rainbow :P ... At least color-to-taste would be possible, as far as I know. Can't remember hearing about that kind yet though, but still.

[Eviebae]

I have grapheme-color synaesthesia... (Was sighted for eight years before I went blind, so I do know colors)... Reading braille is quite annoying after a few pages, so I tend to avoid it.
Let's take Kc Wayland as an example. Colors would be:
White, orange, dark blue/greenish, white, black, dark green, white, dark brownish, black.
When I say "red" you imagine the color, at least I'd guess so. Imagine doing that every time you see the letter B or S too. It can be nice though, remembering spelling of different long words is quite easy.
I had memorized about 500 digits of Pi about 10 months ago, haven't written them down for some time, so back to about 200 at this moment.

Possible Scientific Underpinning of This Malarky

Daniel Tammet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet) is a high functioning Autistic man with Savant Syndrome who sees numbers as combinations of colors and shapes (the images and colors for each number are stable over time). In the movie I saw, it seemed like rather than doing math in the usual way, he observes how numbers act in combination and can do some amazing high speed computations in his head. He can also memorize things really fast and can learn very difficult languages quickly. I remembered him because he fascinated me. His descriptions of the process seemed very intuitive (here's where I don't bring up Joseph Campbell's theories of the connection between significant cultural numbers and the average human heart rate).

So, Saul found antibiotics...wonder if they are like the ones Saul was given? Crossed fingers for them halting Datu's change--allowing him to function as a translator for our heroes (and to not die so I won't be sad).

[Storm]

Possible Scientific Underpinning of This Malarky

Daniel Tammet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet) is a high functioning Autistic man with Savant Syndrome who sees numbers as combinations of colors and shapes (the images and colors for each number are stable over time). In the movie I saw, it seemed like rather than doing math in the usual way, he observes how numbers act in combination and can do some amazing high speed computations in his head. He can also memorize things really fast and can learn very difficult languages quickly. I remembered him because he fascinated me. His descriptions of the process seemed very intuitive (here's where I don't bring up Joseph Campbell's theories of the connection between significant cultural numbers and the average human heart rate).

So, Saul found antibiotics...wonder if they are like the ones Saul was given? Crossed fingers for them halting Datu's change--allowing him to function as a translator for our heroes (and to not die so I won't be sad).

My numbers are just different colors, 2 is red, 4 is light blue (dark if we're talking about numbers in the 40's). The number 24 doesn't have it's own color, but rather just the way you'd write it, just with the numbers' colors instead. If I could draw I could have tried to show how I view the numbers. It's kinda like a chain I can move along tro focus on a certain one... Sounds kinda freaky. LOL.
Regarding the drugs Saul found, I don't think they're the same. The ones he had were vancomycin and clindamycin. What he found at the hospital was spiramycin. I haven't looked much into that yet, but well...

[Grognaurd]

Well, lots has been said about The Zombie Code. Time to shift a bit, but still build on the concept. The Drug mentioned by Saul was Spiramycin. This is quite interesting in the zombie mythology. This is a drug used to fight Toxoplasma gondii. This, like rabies, infects many species of animals. But, the most poignant aspect is that researchers believe that it modifies the behavior of Rodents. They seem to become less fearful of cats!

See, the organism can infect many animals, but can only sexually reproduce in Cats. Like malaria, it sexual life cycle involves different species. The Toxoplasma gondii alters the behavior of rodents so they are eaten by the cat and it gets to have sex!

So, what do we have? Toxoplasma gondii is an infection that alters behavior. In fact, some researchers suspect that Toxoplasma gondii is the agent responsible for the "crazy cat lady" that we are familiar with. It can easily infect humans, and for most of us it is harmless, but some people go off the deep end.

In REAL life, we have Toxoplasma gondii and it alters behavior and one of the drugs of choice to combat it is Spiramycin

[Merlin1274]

But this virus is affecting the mind, so it could be also reprogram it to see things that we normal wouldn't noticed before. I think of it like the time you a driving down the same road over and over again. But when you sit on the passenger side of the car you notice a building or area that you never noticed before.

It could open something up in the brain that is hidden there past down the DNA train.. But normals can not see or comprehend.. If this virus changes people why can it not alter and open up parts of the brain that are blocked off for the rest of us.. Science has already proven things are passed down in DNA. So a Z-Language is feasible in my book..

[Merlin1274]

Also.. Everyone is bent on the Z-Language.. everything being grounded with science to back it up.. After all we are talking about a Fictional Zombie Podcast. Isn't the Zombie thing a little supernatural anyway? I feel there is a bit of a biblical aspect to this along with science. Maybe a little ancient Voodoo.

KC I love it keep it coming...

[Gnex]

I have read a few posts about this being an "Insta-language" the minute you get bitten, or that when Datu saw the marks he started "changing".....

personally I don't think that is the case either way.

As far as the "Insta-language" thing. I think Ink knew something was coming and he planned ahead by Tattooing himself with multiple different symbols, signs, etc, etc... I believe that Ink knew that once someone was "Infected" that their mental state would severly decrease, they would lose the ability to speak, etc, etc..... But I think Ink either knew(or thought) that they would still be able to obey commands or understand symbols, signs, etc.... I feel that the zombies can understand the symbols/signs and that is what is being used to control them, order them, and ultimately keep them under control.

Now, as far as Datu Turning when looking at the symbols/signs. I don't believe he was turning, but more that he was in pain. Datu begins to read the page and gets hit with sharp pain as he stares at the page, he then looks away from the page and immediately begins to feel somewhat better. I think what is happening here is there is a symbol/sign on the page that will cause pain to any zombie that looks at or reads it.

Think about it like this, Ink may have some marking on his face that will immediately make zombie's less aggresive around him. Like something on his face that calms them, or causes them to follow him, or obey commands. But what happens if they start to get out of control?? It could be possible that Ink has some other tattoo(inside his palm or somewhere else) that he can show whenever the zombies are getting out of control that will immediately cause pain and get them back in line. Almost like those collars for dogs that shock them when they get too far away from the house, it is training them with pain..... Ink could be using certain symbols to train the zombies with pain....... If you try to attack me, you will experience great pain when I open my hand, once you back down, I will close my hand and you will be fine again.

Now.................................... time for the :tinfoil::tinfoil:

What if............. Someone(Randy) was still smart enough to figure out what Ink was doing with the symbols. What if Randy is still working to shut down Ink. If Ink was sending zombies to Raydon Labs in order to collect supplies, it could be possible that Randy went there and put markings around the certain areas, so that when any zombies would look for ingrediants they would experience pain. This would severly slow down Ink's ability to gather ingrediants, and would bring his zombie experimenting to a creep. This could also explain why the Colonists have seen a decrease in the amount of zombies in the area. If Randy has also figure out how to control them(or cause them pain at least) he could very well be placings symbols/signs in certain areas to help protect the colony. Imagine a zombie walking down a street, and turns a corner, next thing you know there is a symbol on a door, or parked car, or Billboard that causes them great pain........ they are going to turn around and get away from that area as fast as they can.

[Storm]

I have read a few posts about this being an "Insta-language" the minute you get bitten, or that when Datu saw the marks he started "changing".....

personally I don't think that is the case either way.

As far as the "Insta-language" thing. I think Ink knew something was coming and he planned ahead by Tattooing himself with multiple different symbols, signs, etc, etc... I believe that Ink knew that once someone was "Infected" that their mental state would severly decrease, they would lose the ability to speak, etc, etc..... But I think Ink either knew(or thought) that they would still be able to obey commands or understand symbols, signs, etc.... I feel that the zombies can understand the symbols/signs and that is what is being used to control them, order them, and ultimately keep them under control.

Now, as far as Datu Turning when looking at the symbols/signs. I don't believe he was turning, but more that he was in pain. Datu begins to read the page and gets hit with sharp pain as he stares at the page, he then looks away from the page and immediately begins to feel somewhat better. I think what is happening here is there is a symbol/sign on the page that will cause pain to any zombie that looks at or reads it.

Think about it like this, Ink may have some marking on his face that will immediately make zombie's less aggresive around him. Like something on his face that calms them, or causes them to follow him, or obey commands. But what happens if they start to get out of control?? It could be possible that Ink has some other tattoo(inside his palm or somewhere else) that he can show whenever the zombies are getting out of control that will immediately cause pain and get them back in line. Almost like those collars for dogs that shock them when they get too far away from the house, it is training them with pain..... Ink could be using certain symbols to train the zombies with pain....... If you try to attack me, you will experience great pain when I open my hand, once you back down, I will close my hand and you will be fine again.

Now.................................... time for the :tinfoil::tinfoil:

What if............. Someone(Randy) was still smart enough to figure out what Ink was doing with the symbols. What if Randy is still working to shut down Ink. If Ink was sending zombies to Raydon Labs in order to collect supplies, it could be possible that Randy went there and put markings around the certain areas, so that when any zombies would look for ingrediants they would experience pain. This would severly slow down Ink's ability to gather ingrediants, and would bring his zombie experimenting to a creep. This could also explain why the Colonists have seen a decrease in the amount of zombies in the area. If Randy has also figure out how to control them(or cause them pain at least) he could very well be placings symbols/signs in certain areas to help protect the colony. Imagine a zombie walking down a street, and turns a corner, next thing you know there is a symbol on a door, or parked car, or Billboard that causes them great pain........ they are going to turn around and get away from that area as fast as they can.

If this isn't the case in WA...It'll be an epic idea for another story :)

[UndeadSweeper]

Now.................................... time for the :tinfoil::tinfoil:

What if............. Someone(Randy) was still smart enough to figure out what Ink was doing with the symbols. What if Randy is still working to shut down Ink. If Ink was sending zombies to Raydon Labs in order to collect supplies, it could be possible that Randy went there and put markings around the certain areas, so that when any zombies would look for ingrediants they would experience pain. This would severly slow down Ink's ability to gather ingrediants, and would bring his zombie experimenting to a creep. This could also explain why the Colonists have seen a decrease in the amount of zombies in the area. If Randy has also figure out how to control them(or cause them pain at least) he could very well be placings symbols/signs in certain areas to help protect the colony. Imagine a zombie walking down a street, and turns a corner, next thing you know there is a symbol on a door, or parked car, or Billboard that causes them great pain........ they are going to turn around and get away from that area as fast as they can.

:tinfoil::tinfoil:
So Randy tries to capture Tanya (was she wearing her lab coat?) to find someone who could work on the chemicals.

Also I think it clear that the headache is connect to the ability to reading the symbol. Since Datu make a point to said "There an address there but you unable to read it."

[LiamKerrington]

I so want to comment at this point, but I think I'll just let this play out and let you all figure it out as we go. All I'll say is I don't like "magic" stuff or telepathy, or hive-mind stuff.

That's why I like your style of storytelling so much. You may have some very few examples of "interesting" coincidents, but that's about as much as "magic" was going on ...

As for the zombie-language - just some weird mad-scientist's perspective:

We know that the zombie-adgent(s) change a hell of a lot of shit in the bodies of the infected. Why would we exclude certain changes to the brains? And remaining all biological: considering how different animals have specialized in certain ways of seeing, hearing, "understanding" the world, why would we exclude the (unlikely) possibility that the zombie-agent(s) change the zeeh-brains in ways that at least the smarter zombos would be able to "understand" pictograms or symbols as kind of a lanuage-substitute? R2Da2 is a very smart guy; maybe we have witnessed a first moment of the passing incubation; and now R2Da2 grabs the proper or full understanding of Inklish (Ink's language) ... I just say: maybe, maybe not. Time will tell, and as of now we have too little tow ork with.

Let's assume furthermore that zeeh-agents "skill" you in Inklish, wouldn't this be kind of an aid for the survivors as well? Add symbols of warning everywhere Ink uses himself; and if one of the survivors would be wounded by zeehs, the other survivors would know: "As long as he does not understand these symbols properly, we are somewhat safe, and there is no need to kill him/ her right now ..."
Crazy thought maybe; and I bet and hope that something like this would be kind of a far fetch; but it is out of any possibility based on what we "know" right now? No. It is not.

But actually I wanted to write about two other things:

a) Why do the Behemoths and all these tattoo-things remind me of Shadowrun? The Behemoths would be kind of a "match" for Trolls in this game - first wave of goblinization in Shadowrung ... But I mean the real first and second edition Shadowrun roleplaying game stuff, and not this 5h1t they sell today from 3rd through latest editions of the game? Kc - are you a Shadowrunner?
b) Burt has a truck! A MONSTER TRUCK! He works on it. It will come into play some time ... And it hurts just by looking at it. HOW! AWESOME! IS! THAT???

Best wishes!
Liam

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Concerning the symbols, there is one source of information which has not been used yet. I am talking of a man who has become a symbol himself.

http://static.squarespace.com/static/51d6ed6fe4b033e178dabc47/t/51df1e68e4b0c1f88048072d/1373576809221/tafkap.png

TAFKAP will provide the answers we need.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

b) Burt has a truck! A MONSTER TRUCK! He works on it. It will come into play some time ... And it hurts just by looking at it. HOW! AWESOME! IS! THAT???

Best wishes!
Liam

Think big. Cup holders included.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbsDXSoiUbg

[Bullethead]

So just a head count people help me out here...

@ the Colony
-Burt
-Riley
-Saul
-Tanya
-CJ
-Pegs
-Puck
-Hope
-Max
-(Guy with busted up hand whose name escapes me) Pete
-(One soldier left, stayed at the Pump before the prison massacre, forget who) Puck

@ the Pump
-Michael
-Datu
-Victor

@ Dunbar
-Kelly
-Lizzy
-Lady

Please fill in who ever I missed. I just want an active roster for what Scratch and TarDust are about to drop on the Colony.

[Eddiexx]

Burt having a goat called dog,,,,,,,,,,,,,classic!!!

[MGM Ray]

Kc, that guitar solo you inserted at the segue, timer 15:45, in this episode was fantastic! It gave me a Red Dead Redemption flashback. Is that a Brother Dan piece too?

[Kc]

Kc, that guitar solo you inserted at the segue, timer 15:45, in this episode was fantastic! It gave me a Red Dead Redemption flashback. Is that a Brother Dan piece too?

No, not that one. It's just from our licensed library.

[Eviebae]

I feel like a beagle, nose down, wagging my tail and sniffing a trail.

Datu's headache was for sure interesting in a beard stroking sort of way because:
There are no pain receptors in the brain.
DUM DUM DUUUUUUUUUH! [lightning crash]
Why yes, I do like drama; why do you ask?

In a headache it's usually a blood flow issue in the meninges (It's what gets inflamed when you have meningitis). It's all about blood flow. There can also be hemorrhages in the layers which lends support to Gnex's "looking not allowed--punishment" idea.

At this point, I can't see anyway that Ink could have stumbled upon the right combo of symbols accidentally. I'm also beginning to think he was aware of the timing of the explosions because he was so anxious to get tattooed before his court date (when he knew he'd be out of his cell).

Did he set off a bomb to allow the gas/nanites/magical sprites to escape?

Was I the only one who found the wandering behemoth sad?

[Eviebae]

You know,
CJ is very, very smart and seems well educated.
She understands data flow and projections
She seems to feel personally responsible for the survival of humanity
Saul mentioned thinking her job wasn't important which sounded like a clue.

I think she either worked at Raydon or was aware of the project. She feels guilty and responsible. Maybe Ink remembers her and that's why he keeps attacking her strongholds.

[TacticalJHP]

You know,
CJ is very, very smart and seems well educated.
She understands data flow and projections
She seems to feel personally responsible for the survival of humanity
Saul mentioned thinking her job wasn't important which sounded like a clue.

I think she either worked at Raydon or was aware of the project. She feels guilty and responsible. Maybe Ink remembers her and that's why he keeps attacking her strongholds.

I think we skipped over that too.

CJs job prior to the outbreak. Unimportant. Not Swat. Not government. It also goes back to the whole reason she flipped out on saul and victor when they first met.

She may be a good planner, but it does not come from the strategic side. More than likely, it comes from the business world. I don't know where i posted it before, but i have a theory on CJ's past, and I'm sticking to it.

(and why does "CJ" not get a link when we talk about her? do we have to say "chinwe?")

[scbubba]

Sorry I'm late to the party (again).

What a great episode. The whole time I was listening to Saul, Burt, and Riley in the hospital I was tensed up waiting for something to jump-scare them/me. Then when Burt noticed the Behemoth and they scampered off through the building, I was waiting for it to bust through the walls like Hairy did in the jail....

One thing that stood out to me was how the Cain Hospital story was related. We have Saul's recollection of the story (evidenced by his voice over) but we find out that it's actually being told to Tanya. So, did Saul write it down too? Or did Tanya write it down later? Do we have a journal or recollection directly from Tanya yet? Is any of this important or did it just switch from Saul's journal to Burt or Riley there?
Grognaurd and others have mentioned the drug mentioned by Saul but I got the feeling that he found several different mycin family drugs in there and not a single type. Could be some of the C and V that Tanya gave him back in the day....

Datu and the address - my first thought was that something changed in Datu's brain that allowed him to read Zombie writing. Then I thought a little more about it. Why are we dead set on there even being a written zombie "language"? (not everyone is, I know) Ink had all kinds of stuff tattooed on him and they were understood as something by at least some of the zombies. That doesn't mean that a) there is a formal language or b) what's written on the paper is even remotely related to Ink's tats. Right off, I don't recall anyone saying that the markings on the Raydon shopping list matched anything on Ink, the jail cells, or anywhere else. Just that the people that had looked at it didn't know what it was.

The things I can get behind that I've seen in here already are that the markings are something like Tagalog symbols or a Masonic script (or very similar). That is, something that already existed but was not incredibly widespread. We don't know that Randy could read the address on the paper (other than the Raydon one, perhaps) any better than Michael, et al. Perhaps Randy took it from a smart zombie who knew Tagalog and had written it himself so he would remember how to get to his delivery location after picking up the goods.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that we have a good cliffhanger and I think Kc is using the old magician's misdirection on us.
Kc - another helluva episode and I'm hanging on every second of these. "Another!"

[Gooer]

I feel like a beagle, nose down, wagging my tail and sniffing a trail.

Datu's headache was for sure interesting in a beard stroking sort of way because:
There are no pain receptors in the brain.
DUM DUM DUUUUUUUUUH! [lightning crash]
Why yes, I do like drama; why do you ask?

In a headache it's usually a blood flow issue in the meninges (It's what gets inflamed when you have meningitis). It's all about blood flow. There can also be hemorrhages in the layers which lends support to Gnex's "looking not allowed--punishment" idea.

At this point, I can't see anyway that Ink could have stumbled upon the right combo of symbols accidentally. I'm also beginning to think he was aware of the timing of the explosions because he was so anxious to get tattooed before his court date (when he knew he'd be out of his cell).

Did he set off a bomb to allow the gas/nanites/magical sprites to escape?

Was I the only one who found the wandering behemoth sad?

Hm, i just looked it up. Since there are no pain receptors in the brain, but around the brain, such as the skull or muscles, in order for Datu to feel a headache, his brain would of had to swell, meaning that looking at the image would of done something to him that made his brain inflame (or other locations in the head, but the brain seems most likely)

[tonyhind86]

If that was Datu's reaction to the note, I wonder what will happen if he encounters Ink?

[UndeadSweeper]

If that was Datu's reaction to the note, I wonder what will happen if he encounters Ink?

A picture of him might work too. CJ and Micheal should have a pic of him.

[Litmaster]

Good thing Hope and Datu didn't play a final game of tic-tac-toe before she left. One look at those hash-marks and he might've turned right there and ate her! :nik:



(See? Little nik even likes dumb jokes! :nik: )

[Eviebae]

Hm, i just looked it up. Since there are no pain receptors in the brain, but around the brain, such as the skull or muscles, in order for Datu to feel a headache, his brain would of had to swell, meaning that looking at the image would of done something to him that made his brain inflame (or other locations in the head, but the brain seems most likely)

Good point. Thickening of the tissues, swelling of the brain, increased blood flow...heck, even eye strain.
Was it causing him to turn or acting on the part of him that had turned?

So, has this happened over and over again? The Yeti, Abominable Snowmen, Sasquatch, Trolls all from past episodes? That could be why ancient symbols seem to cause the reactions. Or, it could be responsible for points of evolution in our species. Man, this is rich stuff to think about.

[Kc]

(and why does "CJ" not get a link when we talk about her? do we have to say "chinwe?")

Three letter minimum auto-link in the wiki.

[Gooer]

Good point. Thickening of the tissues, swelling of the brain, increased blood flow...heck, even eye strain.
Was it causing him to turn or acting on the part of him that had turned?

So, has this happened over and over again? The Yeti, Abominable Snowmen, Sasquatch, Trolls all from past episodes? That could be why ancient symbols seem to cause the reactions. Or, it could be responsible for points of evolution in our species. Man, this is rich stuff to think about.

Think it's the first time we've heard of the headache. So far, all turnings have been instant, with pain (i'm assuming from) the turning, although it could be something related to the headaches....

[tonyhind86]

Think it's the first time we've heard of the headache. So far, all turnings have been instant, with pain (i'm assuming from) the turning, although it could be something related to the headaches....

It's curious that Saul and Tanya haven't experienced the same pain after seeing either the note, or Ink's tattoos. Maybe they truly are immune :tinfoil:

[Storm]

It's curious that Saul and Tanya haven't experienced the same pain after seeing either the note, or Ink's tattoos. Maybe they truly are immune :tinfoil:

Or maybe Datu's keratin level is just higher than theirs... Remember that their numbers are going back Down now.

[tonyhind86]

Or maybe Datu's keratin level is just higher than theirs... Remember that their numbers are going back Down now.

Datu suffered a full on attack. Tanya only recieved a light bite (check out my rhymes :nik: ) and Saul was tainted by infected blood because of his gunshot wound. That, combined with a certain DNA profile may define the level of infection.

[Eviebae]

Datu suffered a full on attack. Tanya only recieved a light bite (check out my rhymes :nik: ) and Saul was tainted by infected blood because of his gunshot wound. That, combined with a certain DNA profile may define the level of infection.

Saul and Tanya's experiences seem to be important in that they were carefully planned to highlight certain aspects of their respective exposures:

Saul
Exposed by fast turner (Tommy)
Nearer to Ground Zero (LA)
By a bloody bullet tiny dosage (probably heated by the bullet)

Tanya
Exposed by a slow turner
Far from Ground Zero (San Diego)
By a bite (not terribly deep, but deep enough to leave a scar)

[skankyfish]

I feel like the idea of a separate form of understanding from what we know as our language is totally plausible, all things considered. how the brain interprets images and information is what our entire reality is made of. the words im typing right now are only read by all of us as that< - because of how our brains are wired, all of us wired similarly...with that in mind, imagine if that were not the case? imagine if what we see as "X" all the sudden means "sun". its not a change in our interpretation of X, its a change in the way those infected interpret it. I will drop one science-y thing...follow this link!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia

its not a matter of a "zombie language" so to speak, just a different way of communicating. everyone is WAY overthinking this.

todd-0

The problem with synesthesia as a solution is that no two people have the *same* synesthesia. Storm associates one set of colours with certain letters, but another synesthete will associate a totally different set, or they might change depending on the context. Some people don't see colours, but associate a taste or smell. So for all the zombies to not only understand a set of symbols due to acquired synesthesia, but to assign them the *same* meaning...it feels too far-fetched. Less far-fetched than any supernatural meaning for sure, but still far-fetched!

[Grognaurd]

skankyfish & 7oddisdead

I do not think 7id meant this solves the mystery as much as it was an example of how complicated the brain really is. Some people report similar experiences with LSD. Me, I have no experience with the hard drugs. I have enough fun with the classic alcohol and caffeine :).

If I go crackpot, I could envision a fungus as a contributor to the outbreak. It could provide a cognitive dysfunction and psychedelic experience. The wild card is that it might drive the infected to a warm, dark, moist environment to provide a better place for the corpse to be consumed and converted to fungus. We do not see 5 million dead in the streets. They had to go somewhere. LA is very dry, and the sun and air would dedicate the corpse and the one universal constant of life we know is water. I am not saying this is it, I am just pointing out there is still a lot of fertile soil for the zombie mythos rather than the same ol same ol and this is the behavior that the fungus which creates zombie ants. It highjacks their brains and sends them to a better place to die.
scbubba

Yup, there were probably several types of antibiotics there. Unles. This hospital was stockpiling this particular antibiotic... Din dun dun... I think its utility is rare enough that it would not warrant a whole cabinet full. My guess is that since we are hearing the super composit journal, only the most relevant name was recorded. Of course, it is almost as likely that we can be experiencing misdirection.

[Footbutt]

If I go crackpot, I could envision a fungus as a contributor to the outbreak. It could provide a cognitive dysfunction and psychedelic experience. The wild card is that it might drive the infected to a warm, dark, moist environment to provide a better place for the corpse to be consumed and converted to fungus. We do not see 5 million dead in the streets. They had to go somewhere. LA is very dry, and the sun and air would dedicate the corpse and the one universal constant of life we know is water. I am not saying this is it, I am just pointing out there is still a lot of fertile soil for the zombie mythos rather than the same ol same ol and this is the behavior that the fungus which creates zombie ants. It highjacks their brains and sends them to a better place to die.

this made me think of that news article about some Siberian ice drilling that unearthed a 30,000 year old virus. "it only infects amoeba", but it got the wheels turning...
your mention of the fungus sounds spot-on. biological life/virus/fungus can be global and most likely is the cause, do to the enormous widespread infections.

i really can't see us knowing a ton about how Ink does what he does. we may never know. the fact is that he's a villan, and like most awesome villans, he's really good at being ahead of the game for the majority of the conflict. and now, things are coming to a conclusion: Michael and squad will win the day!

[Grognaurd]

Saul and Tanya's experiences seem to be important in that they were carefully planned to highlight certain aspects of their respective exposures:

Saul
Exposed by fast turner (Tommy)
Nearer to Ground Zero (LA)
By a bloody bullet tiny dosage

This is essentially true, although I will not rule out a possible exposure on the roof of Locked and Loaded. He says, a my leg, he's got my leg... This was the researcher from Raydon Labs with the level 3 ID. It does not say he was bitten, but they were not keeping journals then and I think their is a narration by Michael saying these events were reconstructed. I have to go back and listen to this...

[Eviebae]

This is essentially true, although I will not rule out a possible exposure on the roof of Locked and Loaded. He says, a my leg, he's got my leg... This was the researcher from Raydon Labs with the level 3 ID. It does not say he was bitten, but they were not keeping journals then and I think their is a narration by Michael saying these events were reconstructed. I have to go back and listen to this...

You could also say Saul was sprayed by blood as the bullet exited Tommy, (and had been) exposed by cutting off the man's head in the parking area). Tanya was also trying to downplay her exposure. KC, care to comment?

[Merlin1274]

I firmly believe Tanya and Saul are not infected. If they are infected they are immune. Way too much time has passed since they both were exposed. I just do not see the incubation period being that slow. But I have been wrong before. I will totally be shocked if either one of them turn.

I personal believe you can not shut out the endless supernatural means to this virus.

Here is an Ink Theory for you guys..
Ink knows its coming because Raydon researched the gas in some sort of lab research. Someone was drilling way down. Found the gas, Raydon researched it. Try to find a pharma use for it. Ink, well at that time Bill Roberts, was Head of the Research. There is no telling how many lab rats, chimps, or other animals or humans were used studying it. That could have been when he found out about the symbols. could have been a freak accident. They nnew it physically changed the patients. So maybe they were shown random images, such as the colored cards some a referring to, and got some hits that lead him to his understanding how it worked.. Maybe he used the excuse of his wife cheating to off his family so they would not have to live through what he knew was coming.

I can think of so many theories it makes my head hurt. KC you have done a wonderful job making everyone's imagination run wild. This podcast will go down as the best of the best in my book.. Now lets hurry up and get to Monday....

[Bullethead]

Relistening to the chapter now, just a few thoughts (may have already been covered in the 16 previous pages jesus people! lol)

-Wedding: My thinking is that is where Scratch will make her attack, but perhaps that was just small talk between Burt Riley and Saul
-Burt v Scratch: "You have a drill on you all the time?" I can't help but think this may be the tool of choice when Burt finally meets Scratch. Listening to him drill out the medicine cabinet just had me thinking down that road.
-Address: Has anyone discussed possible locations of the address that caused Datu's spazz out?

[UndeadSweeper]

Relistening to the chapter now, just a few thoughts (may have already been covered in the 16 previous pages jesus people! lol)

-Wedding: My thinking is that is where Scratch will make her attack, but perhaps that was just small talk between Burt Riley and Saul
-Burt v Scratch: "You have a drill on you all the time?" I can't help but think this may be the tool of choice when Burt finally meets Scratch. Listening to him drill out the medicine cabinet just had me thinking down that road.
-Address: Has anyone discussed possible locations of the address that caused Datu's spazz out?

Unless Datu is shopping for area where to have the wedding ceremonial for Saul, I believe the address is the church.

[Storm]

-Burt v Scratch: "You have a drill on you all the time?" I can't help but think this may be the tool of choice when Burt finally meets Scratch. Listening to him drill out the medicine cabinet just had me thinking down that road.

OMG... I sooo much want to hear him kill Scratch with a drill now..........

[Osiris]

It makes no sense for Burt to kill Scratch, she's not the White Whale... that honor belongs to Pegs. We all know how that ends. That said, it makes perfect sense for Burt to die in the act of saving Riley from biters.

[TacticalJHP]

"You have a drill on you all the time?" I can't help but think this may be the tool of choice when Burt finally meets Scratch. Listening to him drill out the medicine cabinet just had me thinking down that road.

I just can't wait to see what Burt got to replace his Desert Eagle.

Will he go for another Uber powerful handgun?

Or will he scale it back just a tiny bit and go for a more common magnum?

Or has he decided that magnums are not his thing anymore and pick up a standard caliber handgun?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Question of the day regarding the symbols:

Is Ink able to control a zombie using the symbols if the zombie suffers from dyslexia?

[scbubba]

Been thinking some more about this episode. <br />
<br />
I'm more down the path of the markings on the shopping list and the Ink markings (tats and symbols in the jail) as being unrelated. I don't recall...

[Gnex]

Soooooo judging by what we know and what we have learned.........

Next week's episode will just be 30 minutes of CJ standing behind Datu forcing him to work on the stupid mill...... and every time Datu says he can't or starts to fade CJ will just hold up the paper and cause him pain until he continues working again!

Datu - "I'm just tired right now, can I lay down?"
CJ - "Do your job peasant! For the Greater Good!!!"

[Grognaurd]

scbubba

I think we did have a Tanya Voice over on the way to the jail to rescue Puck. But, you are right, that is te only time I remember one.

[UndeadSweeper]

Soooooo judging by what we know and what we have learned.........

Next week's episode will just be 30 minutes of CJ standing behind Datu forcing him to work on the stupid mill...... and every time Datu says he can't or starts to fade CJ will just hold up the paper and cause him pain until he continues working again!

Datu - "I'm just tired right now, can I lay down?"
CJ - "Do your job peasant! For the Greater Good!!!"

Sorry, CJ will be busy listening to Peg's stories about Ms. Moo's calf discovering potatoes

[UndeadSweeper]

Soooooo judging by what we know and what we have learned.........

Next week's episode will just be 30 minutes of CJ standing behind Datu forcing him to work on the stupid mill...... and every time Datu says he can't or starts to fade CJ will just hold up the paper and cause him pain until he continues working again!

Datu - "I'm just tired right now, can I lay down?"
CJ - "Do your job peasant! For the Greater Good!!!"

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY :D

[7oddisdead]

The problem with synesthesia as a solution is that no two people have the *same* synesthesia. Storm associates one set of colours with certain letters, but another synesthete will associate a totally different set, or they might change depending on the context. Some people don't see colours, but associate a taste or smell. So for all the zombies to not only understand a set of symbols due to acquired synesthesia, but to assign them the *same* meaning...it feels too far-fetched. Less far-fetched than any supernatural meaning for sure, but still far-fetched!

in no way was I saying it was a solution. only an example of how the brain is a strange animal.

jeez, I really don't get whats so hard to understand....

[Bullethead]

It makes no sense for Burt to kill Scratch, she's not the White Whale... that honor belongs to Pegs. We all know how that ends. That said, it makes perfect sense for Burt to die in the act of saving Riley from biters.

I don't know. Pegs killed Latch out of self defense. I don't see why she has to kill Scratch too. Scratch on the other hand killed Shirley, starved Burt, and cut off his trigger finger.
Seems to me that Burt has more of a poetic reason to kill her than Pegs. Just my .02.

Datu being able to read the markings now gives another bit of credence to the Randy is a good Zombie theory don't you think? He just gave Michael one of the best gifts ever.
A Zombie Translator.:brains:
Just another one of the many things King Datu the Resourceful can add to his bag of tools.

[scbubba]

scbubba

I think we did have a Tanya Voice over on the way to the jail to rescue Puck. But, you are right, that is te only time I remember one.
Grognaurd
Yup, you are right. I just pulled 42-2 up and listened to it. As Burt drives Saul, Riley, and Tanya to the jail for Puck, it is Tanya who narrates the description of the scene with Puck and the gun truck.

I think I even called it out over in the 42-2 thread... my brain just ain't working this week.

So, next conjecture - why has Tanya started narrating or recording info in the main communication method in the last 2 chapters? Are her perspectives and thoughts more valuable or informative now? More "hmmm...."

[Gnex]

Scratch sneaks quietly across the grounds........ Today will be the day..... Today she is going to get it for what she did to Latch.....
Scratch sees pegs at the barn kneeling by a bed of hay..... slowly she moves closer, bringing her gun up!!!
Scratch yells "HEY YOU!!! TIME TO DIE!!"
Pegs turns in fear.....
Then all of a sudden...... MOOOOOOooooOOOOooOoooOoOoOOOOO!!!!!

and Scratch is crushed against the side of the barn and killed by Mrs. Maggoo!!!

There..... now we all know how Scratch will Die! :mad:

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Scratch sneaks quietly across the grounds........ Today will be the day..... Today she is going to get it for what she did to Latch.....
Scratch sees pegs at the barn kneeling by a bed of hay..... slowly she moves closer, bringing her gun up!!!
Scratch yells "HEY YOU!!! TIME TO DIE!!"
Pegs turns in fear.....
Then all of a sudden...... MOOOOOOooooOOOOooOoooOoOoOOOOO!!!!!

and Scratch is crushed against the side of the barn and killed by Mrs. Maggoo!!!

There..... now we all know how Scratch will Die! :mad:

At first, you made me write an epic rant about your prediction, because nobody kills Osiris' taphophilic love interest. But on the other side, you also made me laugh hard. Your proposed conclusion to the Pegs-Scratch-situation would be a wonderful hommage to Monty Python's The Holy Grail movie:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSXOeqwbrEo

[Grognaurd]

Grognaurd
Yup, you are right. I just pulled 42-2 up and listened to it. As Burt drives Saul, Riley, and Tanya to the jail for Puck, it is Tanya who narrates the description of the scene with Puck and the gun truck.

I think I even called it out over in the 42-2 thread... my brain just ain't working this week.

So, next conjecture - why has Tanya started narrating or recording info in the main communication method in the last 2 chapters? Are her perspectives and thoughts more valuable or informative now? More "hmmm...."

It is ok, I get brainfarts when life opens a six pack of whoopass, and you got hit with the whole case.

She is only around for a few days before she gets locked up and all she could do was rehash what someone else wrote. Now, she is part of the team. I hope she does not figure it out before I do! Lol

[Osiris]

I don't know. Pegs killed Latch out of self defense. I don't see why she has to kill Scratch too. Scratch on the other hand killed Shirley, starved Burt, and cut off his trigger finger.
Seems to me that Burt has more of a poetic reason to kill her than Pegs. Just my .02.

Datu being able to read the markings now gives another bit of credence to the Randy is a good Zombie theory don't you think? He just gave Michael one of the best gifts ever.
A Zombie Translator.:brains:
Just another one of the many things King Datu the Resourceful can add to his bag of tools.

Pegs doesn't "kill" Scratch, but she is certainly the cause of Scratch's end.

Yes. I said it, Scratch dies. But so do Michael, Saul, Burt, Riley, Kelly, and CJ. Balance.

[Osiris]

At first, you made me write an epic rant about your prediction, because nobody kills Osiris' taphophilic love interest. But on the other side, you also made me laugh hard. Your proposed conclusion to the Pegs-Scratch-situation would be a wonderful hommage to Monty Python's The Holy Grail movie:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSXOeqwbrEo

What an interesting use of taphophilia...

[Witch_Doctor]

:tinfoil:Perhaps the symbols are arranged like a puzzle or riddle. That's what Datu means when he says that you can't 'read' the address. You have to decipher it. When he says 'you can't read it.' he is nor referring to any particular person or persons, but he means that the address isn't 'spelled' like a word. Think of Pictionary.

[Osiris]

:tinfoil:Perhaps the symbols are arranged like a puzzle or riddle. That's what Datu means when he says that you can't 'read' the address. You have to decipher it. When he says 'you can't read it.' he is nor referring to any particular person or persons, but he means that the address isn't 'spelled' like a word. Think of Pictionary.

Solved it:







BUTTSEX!!!!!!!!!!!!


Never mind. I was channeling Nurse Britt.

[zack1925]

I think what he means is that Michael can't see it because he's not turning

[Zombie Yeti]

:tinfoil:Perhaps the symbols are arranged like a puzzle or riddle. That's what Datu means when he says that you can't 'read' the address. You have to decipher it. When he says 'you can't read it.' he is nor referring to any particular person or persons, but he means that the address isn't 'spelled' like a word. Think of Pictionary.
I think your on to something my thought is randy bit datu to be a cipher. That's why he told him to go he was there with micheal at the water works. He must no micheal had the paper I think datu will be able to read inks tattoos. I hope this wasn't said already.

[Eviebae]

What happens to make the zombie spoken language understandable? Is all zombie-speak the same no matter the original spoken language? It all reminds me of the Tower of Bable story...except they left out the part about the zombies.

[7oddisdead]

perception.

that's perhaps the thing that has me so certain of the language thing. -what if- the perception of the very reality we live in, changes? what if the mind fundamentally shifts to a "different" way of seeing the world? datu says that theres another address on the note, what if even randy did not see it as an address? what if ink did not write it as an address? what if datus perception of the symbols changed it in that moment of "zombie mind awakening" and he saw an address where ink actually wrote a chemical? that we have to wait to find out...but all this is a possibility that while very much on the fringes of science...still have some basis in the logical, scientific world. we accept everything we know around us because our perceptions of the world are so similar. what I call an apple, you call an apple, I write the word apple and we all naturally see...an apple. what if your perception of an "apple" changes? you still know what an apple is...you still see the apple, you still right the word "apple" but now the apple is a bloody human heart, ripped from the tree it grows in...

am I right with all this? fuck I hope not. but its an option, better - its my "perception" of the story so far-.

todd-0

[Red Shirt]

I think more people should research how this sort of thing could be possible before judging if its supernatural or not. Also, while this story 90% science based and does a good job at keeping to that...at some point we have to go off those rails.

#becausezombies

the beauty if neurological science is in a way it is like magic. The general public (certainly including myself here) cannot even begin to wrap their brains around how the brain works. So who amongst us wants to get ahold of Steve novella?? He'll set this shit straight. *darn tootin'

I really, REALLY hope that they are fans... they have discussed the science of zombies on occasion in the past, even debating the zombies in The Walking Dead. There's about a month and a half between 46 3/3 and the finale event... if any of them are fans, maybe The WA Fan Cast could have them on as a guest during that extended break. Bob made an appearance on the Nerd List... so it might not be out of the question... though TAM is July 10-13 this year, could be busy with preparations.



So, here's my take. I don't think it has anything to do with magic at all... What it is, I have no idea, not yet... but here's the vibe that I'm taking away from this. I'm still thinking science, but a whole lot deeper into the fringe.

I had to seriously dig for it, but I found it, way back in the thread for WND #55:


You want Crazy? TOWTM speaks softly, but it is a pretty standard. The others that we understand are more foreign. We can speculate that they are learning to speak English to communicate with eachother, which seems odd because they clearly can communicate without it

So, spin it around. Maybe the survivors are beginning to understand "zombie". Granted this is more complicated, but the contagion, infection, narcotic, alters behavior, physiology and perspective. Why not language?

It seems that it was already hinted at back in Chapter 37... Which lead me to the astounding realization as to why. That we might all already be infected (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4714-Wnd-55&p=63145#post63145).

The juicy bit, if you don't click through, even tough you really should:


Then it struck me. We're not already "infected." We are already latent "Zombies." Of the entirety of the Human Genome, 98% of it is Non-Coding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noncoding_DNA). The Hydrocarbon laden haze attacks the DNA directly like a carcinogen and unlocks the non-coding DNA and forces it to code. (Again?) Now, some of this Non-Coding DNA does actually have function, it's just not part of the blueprint that makes us Human. It is likely though, that like the ancient viruses, some of the code are genetic fossils of pieces what we used to be. Different people of distinct genetic histories and/or different parts get unlocked and get expressed resulting in the menagerie of zombies: biters, runners, jumpers, behemoths and so on.

Couple that with one of the articles that I linked in that post, it is been discovered that there are 100,000 pieces of retroviral DNA in OUR genes, making up about 8% of the human genome... and that HIV has been show to activate latent virus code. The zombie virus and haze might be activating latent DNA... now it might be activating more than that...

If I may, I'd like to take it a step further over the line and into the fringe. I'll try to retain some level of coherency here, but I'm just spit balling here. I'm not even sure myself if this may be the case because this is so far out there, foil hat just doesn't cover it:

Let's say that throughout all of human history, more importantly, recorded history there were small precursor outbreaks. Small and isolated, but they were noticed at the time and recorded through various means. The scholars of the time learned a tidbit here, a tiny detail there. Perhaps the insane ravings of a slow turner documented by a physician. Even more chillingly, the insane scribbling of a historian as they succumbed to slow turning. A character here, a sigil there. All written down as a means to attempt to document what they had discovered. Pieces of it leaked into the subconscious and the lexicon of those parent cultures and unknowingly passed it forward.

Each of these ancient scholars, historians and physicians however might have only had one piece (if that) of a much, much larger puzzle. They were also separated not only by thousands of miles but also thousands of years. Now however, the collected works of man can be perused by a visit to a museum or surfing the internet. A smart person, a very clever person, might be able to see through it and piece it together. Singular symbols from vastly disparate cultures and languages are actually representative of parts of a much deeper and older language.

What if zombification isn't just regression to what we used to be physically, but also bits and pieces of memories from eons ago? A genetic memory somehow preserved and now reactivated, are giving the infected the ability to read/understand an ancient proto/precursor language? Maybe the eye of Horus isn't that at all... it is merely a bastardized letter of an entirely different language.

The brilliance of Dr. William Roberts allowed him to cut through the chaff and to the heart of the matter... but what did he see? Prophecy? Instructions? Is this what spurred him to take on schooling in the fields he chose? Was he taking actions to get ready?

I think what happened to Datu was merely a burst of, or an acceleration of the turning, granting him the ability to see the symbols for what they truly are. I don't think that the writing did it to him.




its not a matter of a "zombie language" so to speak, just a different way of communicating. everyone is WAY overthinking this.
I am absolutely guilty of this, but as Han would say, "Hey, it's me." :D
I did after all, start writing before I read all the way through the thread.

But, after an excessive amount of time trying to pen this post... looking at all the symbols, lines and squiggles that comprise the letters in it is now giving me a headache. Time to hit send and bed.

[skankyfish]

skankyfish & 7oddisdead

I do not think 7id meant this solves the mystery as much as it was an example of how complicated the brain really is. Some people report similar experiences with LSD. Me, I have no experience with the hard drugs. I have enough fun with the classic alcohol and caffeine :).

Ah, ok, I can get down with that ;-)



If I go crackpot, I could envision a fungus as a contributor to the outbreak. It could provide a cognitive dysfunction and psychedelic experience. The wild card is that it might drive the infected to a warm, dark, moist environment to provide a better place for the corpse to be consumed and converted to fungus. We do not see 5 million dead in the streets. They had to go somewhere. LA is very dry, and the sun and air would dedicate the corpse and the one universal constant of life we know is water. I am not saying this is it, I am just pointing out there is still a lot of fertile soil for the zombie mythos rather than the same ol same ol and this is the behavior that the fungus which creates zombie ants. It highjacks their brains and sends them to a better place to die.
scbubba


I actually really like this theory. There are fungi in nature that infect a host and change its behaviour (I believe Cordyceps is one - infects spiders and similar), so this is a totally plausible mechanism in my mind...

[skankyfish]

in no way was I saying it was a solution. only an example of how the brain is a strange animal.

jeez, I really don't get whats so hard to understand....

Sorry man, I misinterpreted your meaning. Wasn't trying to be a douche!


perception.

that's perhaps the thing that has me so certain of the language thing. -what if- the perception of the very reality we live in, changes? what if the mind fundamentally shifts to a "different" way of seeing the world? datu says that theres another address on the note, what if even randy did not see it as an address? what if ink did not write it as an address? what if datus perception of the symbols changed it in that moment of "zombie mind awakening" and he saw an address where ink actually wrote a chemical? that we have to wait to find out...but all this is a possibility that while very much on the fringes of science...still have some basis in the logical, scientific world. we accept everything we know around us because our perceptions of the world are so similar. what I call an apple, you call an apple, I write the word apple and we all naturally see...an apple. what if your perception of an "apple" changes? you still know what an apple is...you still see the apple, you still right the word "apple" but now the apple is a bloody human heart, ripped from the tree it grows in...

am I right with all this? fuck I hope not. but its an option, better - its my "perception" of the story so far-.

todd-0

This instantly made me think of aphasia (which I think might have been mentioned in the forums before?). Generally it's the loss of ability to use language, but in one subtype people associate concepts with *different* words than the rest of us. Not sure where I'm going with that, other than it's not too much of a stretch to associate different symbols/letters/words with new meaning either, albeit different meaning for each individual.

[Gnex]

Pegs doesn't "kill" Scratch, but she is certainly the cause of Scratch's end.

Yes. I said it, Scratch dies. But so do Michael, Saul, Burt, Riley, Kelly, and CJ. Balance.



I can get behind this idea!!!! :nik:

[Gnex]

Didn't see if anyone had mentioned it yet or not.......

But did anyone else catch the setup for Saul's attack/death???

Equipment got left at the hospital, Burt offers to come back and help, Saul brushes him off saying he wont need him he can roll it the rest of the way.

;( sad times in the kingdom!

[tonyhind86]

Didn't see if anyone had mentioned it yet or not.......

But did anyone else catch the setup for Saul's attack/death???

Equipment got left at the hospital, Burt offers to come back and help, Saul brushes him off saying he wont need him he can roll it the rest of the way.

;( sad times in the kingdom!

Especially with that behemoth wandering around

[kent17]

things are coming to a conclusion: Michael and squad will win the day!
But first Ink will have a long monologue about what his end game will be, giving Michael and co time to escape and stop him!!!

[Grognaurd]

:tinfoil: time...

So, this big one walking to the hospital. It was not mentioned that he looked starved. He was described as "bark" covered, not Bone. Puck did not include tattoos in his description. Seems to me, this is not part of the same crowd as the ones in the Jail. Why would it be driven to go to the hospital? I have a slim lead. We were given several names from Ink's trial info. Austin McKibbon, Cohen and Nick something or other. We got info on the first two, we found Cohen's cell and got a name for arrow head.

So, Nick, Hmmm... It is interesting to note that he was part of the criminal psychiatric department. Where was that located? Say it with me now, Cain memorial hospital! Right where we saw this one headed.

The other interesting twist of all the possible baby names that Lizzy could choose, it was Nicholas. It gets curiouser when we remember that she went into psychology for her father...

[Gooer]

:tinfoil: time...

So, this big one walking to the hospital. It was not mentioned that he looked starved. He was described as "bark" covered, not Bone. Puck did not include tattoos in his description. Seems to me, this is not part of the same crowd as the ones in the Jail. Why would it be driven to go to the hospital? I have a slim lead. We were given several names from Ink's trial info. Austin McKibbon, Cohen and Nick something or other. We got info on the first two, we found Cohen's cell and got a name for arrow head.

So, Nick, Hmmm... It is interesting to note that he was part of the criminal psychiatric department. Where was that located? Say it with me now, Cain memorial hospital! Right where we saw this one headed.

The other interesting twist of all the possible baby names that Lizzy could choose, it was Nicholas. It gets curiouser when we remember that she went into psychology for her father...

Interesting theory, but we could only prove it if Lizzy saw this one, which might not ever happen....

[7oddisdead]

Sorry man, I misinterpreted your meaning. Wasn't trying to be a douche!



This instantly made me think of aphasia (which I think might have been mentioned in the forums before?). Generally it's the loss of ability to use language, but in one subtype people associate concepts with *different* words than the rest of us. Not sure where I'm going with that, other than it's not too much of a stretch to associate different symbols/letters/words with new meaning either, albeit different meaning for each individual.

firstly, I sounded a bit harsh in my response. Apologies for that. It was directed more at the forum at large than you personally. Again, sorry :nik:

and aphasia was one of the first things I looked at as well. The great big unknown we have to think about is "what if ANY type of change occurs in the brain of those bitten?" any sort of change to the brains structuring and synapse firing, etc...annd what we know as aphasia can be thrown out the window. That's the point I've been trying to make. We can keep all things sciencey and logical up a point. The thing we have to remember is somewhere along the line, a hman becomes a -whatever these "zombies" are-...at that point its science fiction. So regardless of liking magic, supernatural,Sci FI, whatever...fact is...nobody has a zombie virus scientifically proven to work...and if they do


I need to shoot em an email... :hsugh:

[katlero]

Didn't see if anyone had mentioned it yet or not.......

But did anyone else catch the setup for Saul's attack/death???

Equipment got left at the hospital, Burt offers to come back and help, Saul brushes him off saying he wont need him he can roll it the rest of the way.

;( sad times in the kingdom!

Yup yup yup!!! I heard it! Me! This chick! Definite setup!

Love ya Saul, but you're a goner.

[Eviebae]

Didn't see if anyone had mentioned it yet or not.......

But did anyone else catch the setup for Saul's attack/death???

Equipment got left at the hospital, Burt offers to come back and help, Saul brushes him off saying he wont need him he can roll it the rest of the way.

;( sad times in the kingdom!

I heard it, but I think it's more on the order of him planning something that he thinks could/would get himself killed--something to keep his family safe. I'm hoping he gets some information instead. KC doesn't often conform to the status quo so I am hoping. I enjoy his character and the actor so I would miss him lots. On the other hand Saul's shown excellent instincts before (like his Mom and dog were still alive).

What if he's attacked and doesn't change?

[Eviebae]

and aphasia was one of the first things I looked at as well. The great big unknown we have to think about is "what if ANY type of change occurs in the brain of those bitten?" any sort of change to the brains structuring and synapse firing, etc...annd what we know as aphasia can be thrown out the window. That's the point I've been trying to make. We can keep all things sciencey and logical up a point. The thing we have to remember is somewhere along the line, a human becomes a -whatever these "zombies" are-...at that point its science fiction. So regardless of liking magic, supernatural,Sci FI, whatever...fact is...nobody has a zombie virus scientifically proven to work...and if they do

I need to shoot em an email... :hsugh:

I've been meaning to mention my progress in that area :p

Actually, that's what makes an fungal infection like Ophiocordyceps unilateralis or a parasitic infection like Toxoplasma gondii so appealing. It explains the uniformity of response. Toxoplasma also might explain their tendency to group (other than being ex-humans).

You know, I thought Raydon was making body building stuff, but having a genius like Ink on staff seems way above body builder supplement level know how.

Okay, high icky warning: you know how they talk about the zombie eyes looking cloudy? A link (http://www.intechopen.com/books/common-eye-infections/endophthalmitis-experience-from-a-tertiary-eye-care-center) to endophthalmitis which came up. Endophthalmitis can be caused by infectious or non-infectious agents and makes the eyes look cloudy.

[Footbutt]

so if Lizzy has the baby, Saul dies, and Victor takes over the "Daddy Duties"... will he and Lizzy eventually hook up?!?!?!
Rainbow Babies!!!
Lizzy could run a PSA using all her own children! love it.

SIDE NOTE:
am i right in assessing that the Zombies' only way to "reproduce" is to bite/turn another human? there's hope for humanity right there!
i can see the story ending with the hopeful outlook of numerous babies being born, raised in separate colonies, and then there's eventually a network of survivors that start over after the bulk of the Zeds are gone. i'm all about happy endings.

[ImPaul]

I'm thinking that the address on the paper that Datu saw, will lead to this church.
Perhaps, it could also be a sign of the pending wedding of Saul & Lizzy.
However, I'm also hoping to get some answers regarding the intentional and overt use of Biblical Names from Season 1. I know this has been mentioned in the forums before (by me), but it seems like the people in the Tower from Season 1 almost exclusively had names drawn from the Bible.

[tonyhind86]

Saul is clearly set up for an attack since he's going back to the hospital alone. Perhaps the church reference is a nod to a wedding that will never be :nik:

[Gnex]

Episode 43-3 is going to be crazy..........

Lets keep in Mind the Chapter is called "The Darkness Ahead"...............

As we currently sit there seems to be(a least for the current situation) a lot of "Happy" things ahead..... A Baby is Coming, A Wedding is in the works, Plans are being made to spread out so that everyone can keep living, etc, etc, etc.........

Now........ Somewhere in all of that............ The Bad Things(or Darkness) need to start happening........

I'm gonna say hang on to your seats for 43-3 Ladies and Gents!!!! :yay:

[Gnex]

So I just thought about this.............

If we are assuming that Saul is on his way out the door...... All signs point to no more Saul........


Does that mean that Victor(By agreeing to take care of the baby) has basically punched his first class ticket to the end of the Story?!?!?

[tonyhind86]

So I just thought about this.............

If we are assuming that Saul is on his way out the door...... All signs point to no more Saul........


Does that mean that Victor(By agreeing to take care of the baby) has basically punched his first class ticket to the end of the Story?!?!?

Victor-ious :nik:

[UndeadSweeper]

Victor-ious :nik:

Didn't you know that the next project is Victor and baby travel the wasteland in Burt's truck. It's like Axecop with a sombrero.

[tonyhind86]

Didn't you know that the next project is Victor and baby travel the wasteland in Burt's truck. It's like Axecop with a sombrero.

The baby will be so badass, he'll be the one doing the driving :nik:

Vic & Nic: On The Road

[MrRedBeard]

perception.

that's perhaps the thing that has me so certain of the language thing. -what if- the perception of the very reality we live in, changes? what if the mind fundamentally shifts to a "different" way of seeing the world? datu says that theres another address on the note, what if even randy did not see it as an address? what if ink did not write it as an address? what if datus perception of the symbols changed it in that moment of "zombie mind awakening" and he saw an address where ink actually wrote a chemical? that we have to wait to find out...but all this is a possibility that while very much on the fringes of science...still have some basis in the logical, scientific world. we accept everything we know around us because our perceptions of the world are so similar. what I call an apple, you call an apple, I write the word apple and we all naturally see...an apple. what if your perception of an "apple" changes? you still know what an apple is...you still see the apple, you still right the word "apple" but now the apple is a bloody human heart, ripped from the tree it grows in...

am I right with all this? fuck I hope not. but its an option, better - its my "perception" of the story so far-.

todd-0

Like being stuck between 2 dimensions or more along the lines of lizard brain/animalistic traits? Interesting to say the least. I'm leaning towards his ability to read it ties into the meaning of his name and origin.

[7oddisdead]

@mr.redbeard

dimensions is a strong word. lizard or animal puts me in a reptilian mindset.. an I got hosed the last time I even mentioned the word "alien"

think of it this way, our senses feed their input though our body and into our brain. what if your brain began to process that info in a different way? and what if that change happened uniformly to everyone bitten/infected? I admit its far out there stuff. but it still retains some level of plausible explanation. while I could totally see the misdirection in the cliffhanger being we jump to these conclusions of a zom-diction, when its just tagalog hes reading...


think about just how well set up this situation is... datu, the only character (I believe) to have any type of "exotic" language in his background. so either way could be right, but its a crapshoot as far as guessing which. im just hedging my bets on the fun answer

[Red Shirt]

You know, I thought Raydon was making body building stuff, but having a genius like Ink on staff seems way above body builder supplement level know how.

True, but it makes sense actually. If Radon was simply in the business of manufacturing pharmaceutical grade body building supplements, then Dr. Roberts was overqualified for the company... However if Radon was not only manufacturing but also engineering them, researching for the next big breakthrough for better living through science and chemistry, with the ultimate goal being designer humans... then yes, Dr. Roberts was exactly the man they needed.

[Eviebae]

Unless it's been modified in some way whatever this is causes awfully complex and uniform changes. Maybe it's something that was previously undetected but made people more aggressive when they gathered in groups--causing road rage etc.

7Odd, you don't have to look hard to see real world examples of people who've had their brains rewired by trauma or disease. "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat" would be a good source to build up from. The thing that would interest me is people finding ways to find common ground. Like the little girl with aphasia, she is communicating, not just with words.

[Gooer]

Episode 43-3 is going to be crazy..........

Lets keep in Mind the Chapter is called "The Darkness Ahead"...............

As we currently sit there seems to be(a least for the current situation) a lot of "Happy" things ahead..... A Baby is Coming, A Wedding is in the works, Plans are being made to spread out so that everyone can keep living, etc, etc, etc.........

Now........ Somewhere in all of that............ The Bad Things(or Darkness) need to start happening........

I'm gonna say hang on to your seats for 43-3 Ladies and Gents!!!! :yay:

I'm thinking Scratch and Tardust will do something that'll rustle our jimmies..... Hopefully Saul doesn't die; not sure how i would cope.....

[Zombie Yeti]

I heard it, but I think it's more on the order of him planning something that he thinks could/would get himself killed--something to keep his family safe. I'm hoping he gets some information instead. KC doesn't often conform to the status quo so I am hoping. I enjoy his character and the actor so I would miss him lots. On the other hand Saul's shown excellent instincts before (like his Mom and dog were still alive).

What if he's attacked and doesn't change?
He can get his own zombie army then they can fight west side story style there's the musical episode.

[Tar Heel Fan]

Zombie: The universal language! I wonder if all zombies can read/speak this new language, no matter what language they spoke before turning.

[Zombie Yeti]

Zombie: The universal language! I wonder if all zombies can read/speak this new language, no matter what language they spoke before turning.

Have you ever wanted to speak zombie now you can with Rosetta Stone zombie language software. Wow your friends with moans and groans and learn to shuffle or run just like a zombie.

[Witch_Doctor]

@mr.redbeard

dimensions is a strong word. lizard or animal puts me in a reptilian mindset.. an I got hosed the last time I even mentioned the word "alien"

think of it this way, our senses feed their input though our body and into our brain. what if your brain began to process that info in a different way? and what if that change happened uniformly to everyone bitten/infected? I admit its far out there stuff. but it still retains some level of plausible explanation. while I could totally see the misdirection in the cliffhanger being we jump to these conclusions of a zom-diction, when its just tagalog hes reading...


think about just how well set up this situation is... datu, the only character (I believe) to have any type of "exotic" language in his background. so either way could be right, but its a crapshoot as far as guessing which. im just hedging my bets on the fun answer


Babayin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baybayin), the writing script of Filipino. 3076

I don't think it is widely understood there. Probably like Germans trying to read runes. (LiamKerrington? YABC?) Anyway, the symbols described by the characters seem to be like the ones we see in the Story's artwork. I'm not sure if any of the symbols in the story were described as being anything from the Baybayin script. We can speculate how Datu can read it based on what we know so far. But, it would be a pretty vast and open ended number of possibilities.

I can tell you for certain what are not the reasons he can read it.

Datu is a scholar of ancient script and symbols.
My Pictionary theory (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?5239-Chapter-43-2-The-Darkness-Ahead&p=73754&viewfull=1#post73754).
Some of the writing is Baybayin or one of its derivatives and Ink had some Pharmaceutical research involving the Philippines (a la Sean Connery in Medicine Man (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104839/)) and Datu actually understands it because he was a Tattoo artist catering to tourists.

None of these will be the case because they seem plausible and KC Knows exactly how I think, so he writes the story so that I will ALWAYS be surprised.

[Grognaurd]

Well, Datu means Chief, so he might nor be Robert Langdon. But he may have studied his tribal script, but I cannot think of a good reason why Ink/Randy/??? Would know it and write it on the paper.

A case could be made for altered perception, but it is more of a reach than we have seen this far.

What if Datu was a free mason, part of the Elks Club, or maybe even the knights of Columbus. They might have a ceremonial script or something. Knights of Columbus would have a reason to link to the Church we see in the cover art. I do not remember if Protestant churches have the stations of the cross on their walls. Catholic churches do and I see what might be them hanging on the walls.

Yea, all of this is thin, but gosh darn it, we are running out of episodes to pull everything together. Michael says that Datu does not have his heart in the pump repair and I could see him bringing Datu to a Catholic Church.

[Storm]

So Datu Means chief? Hmm...
...Looks like Mata Means eye, at least that's what I found...
Chief's eye? O.o

[Witch_Doctor]

Datu the Freemason! I like that. Or maybe answered one of those Rosicrucian ads in the Old Farmers Almanac. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucianism)Actually, Ink could also be a Rosicrucian. There is no real magic involved but he could be a modern day alchemist. Or maybe he's a modern day Doctor Victor Frankenstein.

[Grognaurd]

I think this is close, but modified as


So just a head count people help me out here...

@ the Colony
-Lester
-Hope
-Max (Possibly with CJ)
-Lady


@Colony's Hospital
-Tanya
-Pete
-Puck

@ the Pump
-Michael
-Victor
-Datu


@ Dunbar
-Kelly
-Lizzy


@Random Safe House (Dunbar?)
-Burt
-Riley
-Saul

@Chopper Trip
-Pegs
-CJ

Please fill in who ever I missed. I just want an active roster for what Scratch and TarDust are about to drop on the Colony.

My guess is Burt etal did not drive all the way back to colony, but instead went to a safe house. It is possible they went to Dunbar.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

So just a head count people help me out here...

@ the Colony
-Burt
-Riley
-Saul
-Tanya
-CJ
-Pegs
-Puck
-Hope
-Max
-(Guy with busted up hand whose name escapes me) Pete
-(One soldier left, stayed at the Pump before the prison massacre, forget who) Puck

@ the Pump
-Michael
-Datu
-Victor

@ Dunbar
-Kelly
-Lizzy
-Lady

Please fill in who ever I missed. I just want an active roster for what Scratch and TarDust are about to drop on the Colony.

Soooo, I think that Max/Pete are big red shirt contenders for episode 43-3.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mOKu0Wptwg0/UKJiywPgV6I/AAAAAAAADIQ/92YPY5JuhBY/s1600/blog+red+shirt.jpg

[Gnex]

Fixed!!!!


so just a head count people help me out here...

@ the colony
-burt(betrayed by cj)
-riley(betrayed by cj)
-saul(betrayed by cj)
-tanya(betrayed by cj)
-cj
-pegs(cj's secret lover)
-puck(betrayed by cj)
-hope(soon to be betrayed by cj)
-max(soon to be betrayed by cj)
-pete(betrayed by cj)


@ the pump
-michael(cj's future husband)
-datu(betrayed by cj)
-victor(cj's secret crush)

@ dunbar
-kelly(cj's other secret crush)
-lizzy(soon to be betrayed by cj)
-lady(doesn't like cj)

please fill in who ever i missed. I just want an active roster for what scratch and tardust are about to drop on the colony.