What did Durai know and when did he know it?

[Footbutt]

i'm more leaning into the theory of Durai knowing SOMETHING about the zombies early, early on, and maybe even before the outbreak.

Even though they took on slaves, his conversation with Michael/Peggs at the first Tower encounter makes it seem like he truly want to work something out and he was surprised when Kalani fired shots to provoke them.

and in the aftermath of the Maller tanker convoy attack, Scratch says this about the removed arm of the Little One:
"This is exactly why we are not [referencing just hauling supplies].
They will follow us, and they will find us wherever we go. That thing on the ground is just the beginning, and Durai understands that. That's why he sent us here [to destroy the Arena]."

now this could just be the concept (that was sucessful!) of the Mallers "breaking away" from the LA Zeds, but i want to believe Durai had SOME knowledge about either Ink's involvement or the outbreak in general. Though Bill Roberts' crimes were acted out alone, there's still the possibility of a crime syndicate involvement, right?

[Grognaurd]

I also think there is something to this. It pops up every once in a while. Here are some other tidbits to add to the conspiracy theory.

Scratch says that Durai had plans for all those tankers when speaking to Latch at the clothing boutique. Latch & Scratch seemed to have scouted out the pumping station, they say they saw the hybrid wreck and Saul wonders if he heard them. These events occur after a super smart one drove a car to blockade the ambush of the Dunbar group. Since Lady is still alive, I think this occurs early in the outbreak. Probably a week, maybe 10 days on the high side. Those food and water dispensers are designed for a few days, not a few weeks.

Tardust is very fearful of revealing something to Kilani. The compromise is they identify that there is a threat they want investigated, but not what the threat is. Scratch says something like what they might be. Five million people just died in LA. I just do not accept that the mallers are fearful that one member of a SWAT team or a prison guard survived.

In chapter one, the zombies are described as faster and stronger than people. Bricks breaks the neck of one. So, he is big and strong, but he is disturbed by the special ones. So, we know that he has some info on special ones. My guess it is the cunning of the smart ones or some of the ones Ink seemed to grow.

Let's not forget that Latch was in Prison for a crime Scratch committed that would have put her on Death Row and it was a FEDERAL crime, not a local crime.

[Merlin1274]

It is interesting.. But I think KC said something once that the Family was not tied into it..

[Grognaurd]

It is interesting.. But I think KC said something once that the Family was not tied into it..

I do not know about that, but I will say that be careful and parse the sentence carefully to ensure it is not miss direction.

I could say
You would be lucky to have this person work for you...

Because
1) He is super lazy and you will be lucky if he gets any work done
Or
2) He is awesome and you will be lucky to have him
Or
3) Recruit all you want, but he is unlikely to accept your offer

[kent17]

I believe Kc Tweeted that the families story line has played out or something along those lines. I wish I could find the tweet or post, but I'm coming up blank

He has been specific that Bill Roberts was never at Eastern Bay. A Maller could have been in the county jail with him at some point (Transfer To and From Court) and some information could have been exchanged.

[Grognaurd]

I did see a post where KC said a story line had been played out. The question was actually what was Angel's connection to the family. Angel was something like Durai and Scratch, but turned his back on it.

So, I do not know if it is the family story line that has played out or if Angel's role with the family. When I parse the question and answer I think "Angel" is played out. But, I could see it being "family".

[Verse]

It is very very odd. It would have had to been early in the outbreak when they met the Mallers. Durai having plans already was very odd. Who goes "Hey.. seems we got Zombies. Lets turn tankers into Bombs to blow up a nest just in case." or "Lets make Tankers into Bombs to break into people hideouts". That early into the game as well.

It could have been that he was just smart though. He sent Kulani as a spy to a tower, set up a system to monitor all the air waves, and was very good when he attacked the Tower. If Michael and Co had not used the Sweat then odds are they would have gotten though. Not just due to numbers. He has lookout posted to pick off any Zeds incoming. Fire Engines (Gathers and working as well. Means they had to find them and ensure they were working. Not just a quick pick up one day). It could have easily been that he knew he would need a Wall Buster. Got the fuel depot to ensure he had fuel and be able to make what may be the powerful weapon left in the world (Outside of the Nukes, but that was a thing unto itself) just because he was a planner.

I have always said that Durai was a lot smarter than we knew. Scratch just let him out and got stuff done, but my gut says that he was a smart leader. Pulled his resources and made something out of nothing.

[Verse]

As far as The Family goes.....

During one of KC's Q&As I asked if he had to change the story any to reflect the actors schedules. Like Actor A could not record... so KC places in Actor B to keep the show recording. He said that the Angel thing was always meant to end like it did, but at a later date. That due to Shane Salk unable to record the pushed it much closer. With KC saying The Family is pretty much done (As much as we can get a solid answer from KC), my guess is that if (and I don't think there was) a connection between The Family and the Zeds we will never find out due to him changing it.

[kent17]

Durai is an interesting character that we never seem to quite know enough about, he is shadowy enough that there could have been some higher orders he was following.
Personally I don't buy into the new world order or families conspiracy since as far as I can tell I don't see the pieces there. that being said I'm sure enough of the pieces are there for us to suss out most of the story and I for one am still having trouble seeing the forest from the trees.

I just don't see the point for someone to unleash a global epidemic like this to implement a "new world order" as what is there left to reign over? Is there a super secret bunker full of monocle wearing Monopoly guys somewhere? What is their endgame, who will drive their fancy cars?

[Kc]

As far as The Family goes.....

During one of KC's Q&As I asked if he had to change the story any to reflect the actors schedules. Like Actor A could not record... so KC places in Actor B to keep the show recording. He said that the Angel thing was always meant to end like it did, but at a later date. That due to Shane Salk unable to record the pushed it much closer. With KC saying The Family is pretty much done (As much as we can get a solid answer from KC), my guess is that if (and I don't think there was) a connection between The Family and the Zeds we will never find out due to him changing it.

Yeah, you can pretty much confirm at this point that The Family stuff and the outbreak aren't connected. Much like some of the characters in the story have said, that stuff is part of "the old world".

[Grognaurd]

Yeah, you can pretty much confirm at this point that The Family stuff and the outbreak aren't connected. Much like some of the characters in the story have said, that stuff is part of "the old world".

Well, the conspiracy is strictly need to know. Just because the Family did not inform you, KC, doesn't mean they didn't do it...

Oh, well, one serving of crow please...

[Verse]

Boom! Got a "Like" from the Writer/Director of the series on a post... and a official/confirm on a story plot. My day has been made. It is like I am a Super Star now. =p

[Litmaster]

Hmmm... well, I believe the Maller bombing of the arena happened right at the end of July, 2009, with the initial (we think) outbreak occurring on May 8th.

Not sure the exact timeline of when Scratch freed the prisoners, but it was presumably within a week or so of the initial outbreak, after shit hit fan and the prison was probably abandoned by the cops. I say within a week because the locked-up prisoners would have died of thirst or starvation in their cells if it was much longer than that. So consider these events (dates take from THE TIMELINE WIKI (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Timeline&highlight=timeline)):

May 9-15 or so
Mallers were freed from the prison.
- Just how was Scratch able to free them? Did she have help? What was her relationship with Durai prior to the outbreak, and what did the 'Families' have to do with that?

Mid-Mayish
Deciding strength in numbers, the Mallers then needed a place to stay, claiming their mini-mall probably by May 20th.
- Which obviously didn't provide adequate protection, as evidenced by the Mallers desperate attempts to find new digs.

Mid-June
Dunbar is overrun only a few weeks later, sometime in early to mid-June...
- How is it that CJ's massive fortification falls BEFORE the shitty-ass mall does?

June 26
...but the Maller's mall was still up and running on June 26, when Saul goes on his little moped spy mission.
- So I'm wondering how many times the Mall was attacked by Zeds during the month of June, and how much knowledge Durai gained during this time of Ink's 'Special' Zeds. Whatever happened, it must have been bad enough that Durai realized that Ink's Crew is such a significant threat that the entire Maller group is in danger of being eliminated by them

June 29
Scratch & Latch pay a visit to the Tower, proving the Mallers now know of the Tower's existence.
- The fact that an attempt to move into the Tower was made on this day shows that Durai was not yet thinking they had to blow up the Arena to throw Ink off their trail. Perhaps he was thinking that he could defend the Tower successfully, not matter what Ink threw at them.

July 4
Mallers attacked the Tower on the night of July 4th.
-Which fails, putting an end to this plan in Durai's mind, most likely.

July 30
Mallers intercept Michael's radio transmission to the Tower about the existence of the Colony.
- What is strange is this happens ONLY ONE DAY BEFORE they bomb the arena?? Therefore, the bombing must have already been in the works BEFORE Durai learned of the existence of the Colony. So what was his plan, then? Simply to hit Ink where it hurts, and not as a means to 'cover his tracks' during the move down to the Colony??

July 31
Mallers bomb the Arena.
So by this time, Durai must have realized that Ink is so relentless that unless the Mallers cause a major disruption to the hive, then will follow the Mallers wherever they go. What events led to this kind of realization? They obviously didn't feel safe even moving down to the Colony, or otherwise they would have simply moved south without the risky move of bombing their whole Arena on their way out of town...

[Merlin1274]

I do not know about that, but I will say that be careful and parse the sentence carefully to ensure it is not miss direction.

I could say
You would be lucky to have this person work for you...

Because
1) He is super lazy and you will be lucky if he gets any work done
Or
2) He is awesome and you will be lucky to have him
Or
3) Recruit all you want, but he is unlikely to accept your offer

I pick #2.. Lazy sometimes but not when its something I deem important.. LOL.. I am not an English Major. My sentences sometimes runnith awry.. and my spelling/grammar sometimes too.

[Grognaurd]

Nah, the June 26 mopped is wrong. They rescue Lady. I think this has to be the first week, maybe a little more. In addition, when Kelly is tearing through Lizzy's stuff, she says the current supply of sweat bottles was three weeks worth of work. So, it has to be pushed back a minimum of three weeks.

[Grognaurd]

The mallers have to be freed and have Latch and Scratch get to Locked and Loaded before Angel and Saul get there. They get there before Burt or some how, overcome the smart one from Raydon Labs and his cohort while Burt is unconscious. Burt also says not that one, implying that he is aware the gun safe with the RPG had been robbed.

This begs the question of where was Burt? How do they get there before he does? I have another :tinfoil:, but you have to probe the boards for my thread. I do not want to shoot myself in both feet on the same day! Lol

Thanks again, KC, for all the enjoyment the series has provided in pure entertainment value as well as leaving room for :tinfoil:

[Verse]

May 9-15 or so
Mallers were freed from the prison.
- Just how was Scratch able to free them? Did she have help? What was her relationship with Durai prior to the outbreak, and what did the 'Families' have to do with that?

Mid-Mayish
Deciding strength in numbers, the Mallers then needed a place to stay, claiming their mini-mall probably by May 20th.
- Which obviously didn't provide adequate protection, as evidenced by the Mallers desperate attempts to find new digs.

Mid-June
Dunbar is overrun only a few weeks later, sometime in early to mid-June...
- How is it that CJ's massive fortification falls BEFORE the shitty-ass mall does?

June 26
...but the Maller's mall was still up and running on June 26, when Saul goes on his little moped spy mission.
- So I'm wondering how many times the Mall was attacked by Zeds during the month of June, and how much knowledge Durai gained during this time of Ink's 'Special' Zeds. Whatever happened, it must have been bad enough that Durai realized that Ink's Crew is such a significant threat that the entire Maller group is in danger of being eliminated by them

June 29
Scratch & Latch pay a visit to the Tower, proving the Mallers now know of the Tower's existence.
- The fact that an attempt to move into the Tower was made on this day shows that Durai was not yet thinking they had to blow up the Arena to throw Ink off their trail. Perhaps he was thinking that he could defend the Tower successfully, not matter what Ink threw at them.

July 4
Mallers attacked the Tower on the night of July 4th.
-Which fails, putting an end to this plan in Durai's mind, most likely.

July 30
Mallers intercept Michael's radio transmission to the Tower about the existence of the Colony.
- What is strange is this happens ONLY ONE DAY BEFORE they bomb the arena?? Therefore, the bombing must have already been in the works BEFORE Durai learned of the existence of the Colony. So what was his plan, then? Simply to hit Ink where it hurts, and not as a means to 'cover his tracks' during the move down to the Colony??

July 31
Mallers bomb the Arena.
So by this time, Durai must have realized that Ink is so relentless that unless the Mallers cause a major disruption to the hive, then will follow the Mallers wherever they go. What events led to this kind of realization? They obviously didn't feel safe even moving down to the Colony, or otherwise they would have simply moved south without the risky move of bombing their whole Arena on their way out of town...

1) I think Scratch was more helping her Brother more than anything. We know she has issues with the Family. May be infered and me reading into it, but after the rape thing and them protecting the rapist... I think she was done mentally. She used The Families' 'Rules' to justify attacking Pegs. The more Durai faught against it the more she showed she didn't really care about the code. I am betting she would have let them rot is Latch wasn't there.

2)I think he moved them there for comfort. If it was purely tactical he would have stayed in Eastern Bay. They had cloths and luxery items. In a way Durai was the other side of the Coin to our Tower Folk. When dealing with Criminals he went for material stuff to help control them were as Michael went with security. Makes sence though. Criminals went for comfort first and the Military went for secruity. Durai changed his mind fast though.

3) I think it was b/c Dunbar and Co were much much more active and getting more secure by the day. Ink has shown to be a planner as well. With Dunbar so far ahead of the game.. they needed to go first. Even if it wasn't a master plan by Ink... Dunbar was active ALOT. Convoys, Water Works, Scavenger Parties. They were active and expanding. They would have been seen more. Mallers seemed to send one or two ppl out, and we know Michael and Co did the same. Regardless it makes sence Dunbar fell first. They were just seen more often.. or seen as a threat that needed to be taken out first. CJ was able to make Safe Houses... live stock (chickens).... fruit trees... all on her own (or at the begining with ppl. Still supports the Bigger Threat or seen more idea) so imagine if she had a year in Dunbar with a group. Either works out. Taken out before they were to tough... so simply seen first due to all the activity.

3) I think this is a Luck thing. My guess is he secured the Tankers for fuel then realized he could weaponize them if need be. My guess is he planned to use them to take out anyone that was not with him. People don't join you... you blow their house to hell and back then take the survivors as slaves. Betting he had ppl look into where the bodies went. Same as Dunbar and The Tower. We know Kulani got some info to them. When Kulani told Scratch "They over ran Dunbar", Durai knew the rules had changed. If they could crack Dunbar then The Mallers were up crap creek. He knew then the Zeds were organized in some way.

4) My guess is that this stems from him knowing Dunbar fell. He knew he needed something fast. Betting he was still saving the Tankers for the Arena. My guess is that if he was able to take The Tower he still would have blown the Arena up. Durai seems to be much more aggressive than Dunbar and The Tower. Where they just played defense he played offense. I think this stems from him being a mobster. You bury the enemy.

5) I agree. I am betting he realized that this was a foolish idea. They were dug in to deep. Better to look else where. Willing to bet that given time he would have come back, but by then he found The Colony.

6) Yeah. I am thinking this was in the works as soon as he realized Dunbar fell and they needed a new home. Move in and scatter the enemy to ensure you can dig in. Do it when you have a secure place just in case there is blow back. Betting he was smart enough to know Ink needed to die. If Lizzy can figure out the Zeds are ambusing ppl then The Mallers could to. Odds are some of his slaves were Dunbar survivors. I really believe he planned from the start to use The Tankers as Weapons of Mass Destruction. He just changed who he was aiming at.

7) See above. He knew Ink was a major issue. Betting he was hoping to wipe him out. Worst case make him weak enough to stop. If there would not been a riot I think that he could of held the line when the Zeds attack in mass.

[Kc]

Well, the conspiracy is strictly need to know. Just because the Family did not inform you, KC, doesn't mean they didn't do it...

Oh, well, one serving of crow please...

I just try to keep you guys on track. Too large of tinfoil hats will block out the eyes.

[7oddisdead]

I think the logical thing to keep in mind is just "who" durai was before all this happened.

I don't want to speculate on how scratch got them out so quickly, got over to burts place so quickly, etc...i think those things fall into 'suspend disbelief' territory. I rather look at durai as a mafia-style boss who has to analyze a threat and handle it as quickly as possible.

when you know your threat could be other people, or other "creatures" as the case here. The firebomb idea becomes a quick n dirty solution. Hell, not too long ago we all were discussing how best to handle the jail. Overall opinion?:burn it down. Most of durais decisions are logical, well calculated, and above all...done as quickly as possible to keep his people "safe"

the tinfoil hat stuff is fun, and keep it going folks, for sure...just understand that its just that...:tinfoil:

[Bullethead]

I just don't see the point for someone to unleash a global epidemic like this to implement a "new world order" as what is there left to reign over? Is there a super secret bunker full of monocle wearing Monopoly guys somewhere? What is their endgame, who will drive their fancy cars?

If I may quote Alfred of Batman... Some people just want to see the world burn.

[Grognaurd]

For me, the reason Michael was creating the Super Composite Journal was he found himself wrapped up with so many members of this Family. I have even more people in it that not revealed themselves. Not for anyone to read, but for my own sanity...

Nikvodoo's idea that it is Ink reading the journals, I will add to it by saying after Ink reads it, he crosses out "We're Alive" and writes "Were Alive" and chuckles.

[TacticalJHP]

Oh, the WHO is the appropriate question, but an incomplete one in this case. <br />
<br />
The full question should be &quot;who was Durai before all this happened, that makes it believable to the story?&quot; <br />
I am all...

[Kc]

I don't want to speculate on how scratch got them out so quickly, got over to burts place so quickly, etc...i think those things fall into 'suspend disbelief' territory. I rather look at durai as a mafia-style boss who has to analyze a threat and handle it as quickly as possible.



Something to throw out there, just because... well, it got cut from the primary story, is that we were never told about WHO was coming in to buy the RPG in Burt's safe and why. He wouldn't have kept it in a safe like that unless someone was coming by for it. Otherwise it would have been in his bigger safe. Could be Maller related, but would greatly contribute to the motivation as to why someone with knowledge of its existence would book it there right after shit hits the fan.

This might get covered in the Burt novel, or it might not; does it really change the primary storyline? No, that's why it was cut. There's a lot of little stuff that gets cut because of time/intention/or witnesses. Part of the mechanics of the story is that unless one of characters witnesses the event and puts it down on paper, we don't hear about it. The ONLY scene that's speculation is the helicopter landing in the field before Saul and Victor get there. That's why Michael has that special VO there.

[Grognaurd]

I have always thought there was a connection. But, I think the more important question is not why L&S got to L&L so quick, it is why was Burt so delayed in getting there. Not sure if that is part of this show or the Burt Book, just Flogging a dead horse with a torn :tinfoil: cap...

[7oddisdead]

And that's the point I was trying to make with my original post. Its all well and good to throw stuff at the wall. Its all good to speculate on details of the story. But...details we don't get (locked n loaded, break out, etc) have no frame of reference in THIS story. So all we can work from (in a logical sense) is what we know.

I don't like being a "serious thinker" on here. Too many people take that shit for serious.:nik: someone hand me my crackpot hat

also, there could be a whole nother podcast just based on the story we haven't gotten. That....would be an awesome standalone thing.

[Kc]

I have always thought there was a connection. But, I think the more important question is not why L&S got to L&L so quick, it is why was Burt so delayed in getting there. Not sure if that is part of this show or the Burt Book, just Flogging a dead horse with a torn :tinfoil: cap...

Part of that is covered in the Burt Book. :) In fact, that part's already written. /teaser.

[Grognaurd]

Part of that is covered in the Burt Book. :) In fact, that part's already written. /teaser.

/Flipstable :yay:

[Litmaster]

/Flipstable :yay:

No, allow me....

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2800uarB31qg2w8h.gif

[Litmaster]

Or my favorite one:

Here's Kc coming across yet another email suggesting that he do a We're Alive Musical...


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m28ytw6SFA1r32yfb.gif

[tonyhind86]

Well played sir. Well played.