Chapter 40-1 Monsters

[Unit]

How about another one proving that girls are evil?

GIRLS require TIME and MONEY
GIRLS = TIME * MONEY

TIME is MONEY
GIRLS = MONEY * MONEY
GIRLS = MONEY^2

MONEY is the root of EVIL
GIRLS = [(EVIL)^1/2]^2
GIRLS = EVIL

And so we prove, Girls are Evil!!! :D

[Unit]

It says that he was '...convicted of multiple homicides in Santa Monica last May...' This a a classic amphiboly (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/amphiboly) statement. It could mean...

1) Last May, was convicted for the homicides that he committed. That is, the conviction took place last May.
2) He committed the homicides last May and was recently convicted for them.

Judging by the way the story is unfolding, I'm betting it is the second option. Makes more sense that way.

Good catch! I interpreted it the second way too, but the first way actually never crossed my mind.

[Grognaurd]

It says that he was '...convicted of multiple homicides in Santa Monica last May...' This a a classic amphiboly (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/amphiboly) statement. It could mean...

1) Last May, was convicted for the homicides that he committed. That is, the conviction took place last May.
2) He committed the homicides last May and was recently convicted for them.

Judging by the way the story is unfolding, I'm betting it is the second option. Makes more sense that way.

Yup, that is my point. More likely he murdered people a year before the outbreak, but there is always uncertainty...

We hear the transport van was broken into. But, was it really broken into or was it broken out of? Either way works, but sets up a very different plot.

Michael says "he" is the one who attacked us over the radio. They reach that conclusion by a newspaper photo and CJ's surveillance photo. So, it is implied that he is also the one that attacked Michael's Tower, but Michael did not say he recognized him even though he got a good enough look at "Paul" to notice green eyes. Then again, how many people are there running around in suits after the zombocolypse? Oh, wait, Paul always dresses like that and Victor described what we think might have been Randy because of the bushy hair and beard oh, wait, and a mark on his face...

[Unit]

We hear the transport van was broken into. But, was it really broken into or was it broken out of? Either way works, but sets up a very different plot.


Actually was thinking it was a combination of both. I think mayhem ensued from the outbreak and ink used the opportunity to break out.

[7oddisdead]

Glad to see ya'll coming round to my way of thinking.

[LiamKerrington]

How about another one proving that girls are evil?

GIRLS require TIME and MONEY
GIRLS = TIME * MONEY

TIME is MONEY
GIRLS = MONEY * MONEY
GIRLS = MONEY^2

MONEY is the root of EVIL
GIRLS = [(EVIL)^1/2]^2
GIRLS = EVIL

And so we prove, Girls are Evil!!! :D

So, Bill Roberts is a girl?

[LiamKerrington]

Glad to see ya'll coming round to my way of thinking.

Why would I humbly ask to push the "Red Alert" button now??? :D

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Nice work, was thinking the same thing.

Here is one off topic but just for fun...

2789

Oh no. My eyes are starting to bleed.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

A location remains a crime scene only for as long as evidence can be obtained from it. So it wouldn't make sense for it to be a crime scene for a year after the murders. The best scenario that I can think of is this...

With regards to 2): This sounds a bit forced to me. If we presume Bill to be the mastermind behind z-day, why should he hide things in his office? Maybe the whole police story is based on staged evidence... I do not know.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

That is pretty funny: Ink in comic media. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink_(comics))

[Witch_Doctor]

With regards to 2): This sounds a bit forced to me. If we presume Bill to be the mastermind behind z-day, why should he hide things in his office? Maybe the whole police story is based on staged evidence... I do not know.

Oh no, I wasn't suggesting that he was the mastermind behind Z-day. Just that someone was taking chemicals from office and smuggling them into his jail cell. That would be the crime that was being investigated prior to Z-day.

See, Kelly said that he was tattooed and that the authorities were investigating how the stuff was smuggled into the jail. She could have been referring to the ink and the tattoo equipment, but the investigation afterwards seems a bit over-kill for a jail house tattooing.

So basically, either the police tape was on the door for a year or the police had a reason to declare his office a crime scene just prior to Z-day, and the tape was placed there before the solid biological waste material makes contact with the rotational air circulation device (As LiamKerrington would say.)

[Grognaurd]

the solid biological waste material makes contact with the rotational air circulation device (As LiamKerrington would say.)

Or,

TEOTWAWKI

The end of the world as we know it :)

[Witch_Doctor]

Or,

TEOTWAWKI

The end of the world as we know it :)

Ah yes! The Aztec Apocalypse. :D

[werewolf]

things are starting to pick up. at the beginning of the 4th season it seemed kind of slow, and kind of soapy. however like in KC's fashion things are starting to heat up. the people that I have TURNED at work where saying the same thing. the whole thing about ground zero being clear of bodies and the haze is gone. then the one biter showing up, and #7 attacking and ripping into it. I am wondering if the ones that were dead at ground zero had gotten up after the haze had gone away. Since they are a much earlier version of zombies that the little one #7 saw it as food. and not as kin. like dogs and wolves.
the whole thing about INK being attacked outside the court house make me wonder how did he become a leader of the zombies. Unless INK had planned it somehow. which makes me think that there something more going on than just randomness of the attack. I think might be a 1/2or 3/4 zombie. with all the chemicals that were injected into him there might be a leave of protection going on. the same type of protection as with Tanya and Saul. however he might be closer at the level of turning full blown instead.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

things are starting to pick up. at the beginning of the 4th season it seemed kind of slow, and kind of soapy. however like in KC's fashion things are starting to heat up. the people that I have TURNED at work where saying the same thing. the whole thing about ground zero being clear of bodies and the haze is gone. then the one biter showing up, and #7 attacking and ripping into it. I am wondering if the ones that were dead at ground zero had gotten up after the haze had gone away. Since they are a much earlier version of zombies that the little one #7 saw it as food. and not as kin. like dogs and wolves.
the whole thing about INK being attacked outside the court house make me wonder how did he become a leader of the zombies. Unless INK had planned it somehow. which makes me think that there something more going on than just randomness of the attack. I think might be a 1/2or 3/4 zombie. with all the chemicals that were injected into him there might be a leave of protection going on. the same type of protection as with Tanya and Saul. however he might be closer at the level of turning full blown instead.

Yeah, the 1/2 zombie thing can be quite possible. To (mis-)quote The Beatles' "Yesterday":

Suddenly
I'm not half the zombie I used to be
There's a shadow hanging over me
Oh, season 4 came suddenly

[LiamKerrington]

I am wondering if the ones that were dead at ground zero had gotten up after the haze had gone away. Since they are a much earlier version of zombies that the little one #7 saw it as food. and not as kin. like dogs and wolves.

Interesting idea. And especially horrific would it be if those things started to run around after the haze vanished. Would they be just zombs, especially sustaining zombs, food for other zombs ... ? Something tells me we won't learn about "their" fate ...


the whole thing about INK being attacked outside the court house make me wonder how did he become a leader of the zombies. Unless INK had planned it somehow. which makes me think that there something more going on than just randomness of the attack. I think might be a 1/2or 3/4 zombie. with all the chemicals that were injected into him there might be a leave of protection going on. the same type of protection as with Tanya and Saul. however he might be closer at the level of turning full blown instead.

I could imagine something like this:
William I Roberts was in the van. Then the car and he got attacked. He was wounded by a zeeh; but since he was kind of "canned in" they left him alone, because they had plenty of other and better opportunity to get food - all the lawyers, police men, court people, other convicts etc. ... So there Ink was, in his van, badly wounded. And since he was not killed, he turned into a Smart One - probably the first one to show up. And he became powerful - like what we know from regulars as well as Little Ones and all the other special zombs. He could rip the van apart like nothing (do you remember the first scene Michael described in #1-1 - with the group of zeehs ripping apart a car in order to get to the honking driver and to devour him?). So Ink was able to get free. He was not targeted by other zeehs anymore. And he did, what all them zeehs did. But in contrary to those he kept his mind. So he "attacked" other zeehs in order to play the "alpha-card" and to make other zeehs follow him as minions; and a pack of zeehs was created. And the bigger the group became, the more Ink looked for suitable locations to create his small army of zeehs - that's when the arena was established as the pit. And since he remained some of his intelligence and smartness, he also (re)activated his scientific skills. With the hospital around he had the perfect location to experiment on special zeehs. And this he did. The end of the story up until now you already know ...

Something along this line is what I think is "the", or at least "a likely" part of the Ink-backstory ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Grognaurd]

I still go back to Saul in Chapter 2. Five million people in LA, three days and everyone is gone. It is as if turning is a rare event, then special ones seem to be an extra special intervention by Ink or someone like him.

Nothing new here, just begging the question where did everyone go?

Seems like most people died at ground zero. Some people get eaten and are dead dead dead. They do not come back. Saul and Tanya got exposed to someone very recently turned and turn super slowmo or possibly stop the disease from progressing or do not change much from what they originally are/were.

[Red Shirt]

Man, keep on breathing, you will need the air to deliver the following monologue before killing TOWTM:

Or this one, my particular favorite: (NSFW Language, BTW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66nSZzBNkTU


No there have been other times when zombie have run or hidden. Near the end of the war when Burt, Riley and Angel are making their last stand on the fire truck the zombies eventually give up and run away.

There is another time when it is mentioned that a zombie runs and hides behind a desk. I believe it is when the crew is coming back from saving Datu at the Arena and Ink has gotten in so the team has to clear the building. They find one in the lobby that hides (could have been a different part of the story, not 100% sure, but I know one hides)

That was waaaay back at the beginning of the story in chapter two or three. When Lizzy arrives, they lose control of the lobby. When they go in to retake it, one ducks behind a counter. Michael calls this out and Angel exclaims "It's WHAT?"


There was an instance in the previous chapter when they found the note at Raydon Labs (the shopping list) which Michael described as having "strange symbols" written on it. I wonder if any of these match the tattoos that Ink has on his face and hands.

Things like this make me wish that We're Alive had an ARG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_reality_game) element to it... clues about the show hidden out here in the real world. I would love to get my grubby little paws on a physical hard copy of the "shopping list" and some of the other elements mentioned in the show.


Getting all :tinfoil: What was the councillor's name? Nick Rivers? What does the pregnant PhD psychiatrist want to name her baby boy? Nicholas? Do I have that right?

What is the likelihood that Nick Rivers was Lizzy's doctoral advisor? Or, did Lizzy do an internship at/with Correctional Counseling?


Maybe, or....

x = y.
Then x^2 = xy.
Subtract the same thing from both sides:
x^2 - y^2 = xy - y^2.
Dividing by (x-y), obtain
x + y = y.
Since x = y, we see that
2 y = y.
Thus 2 = 1, since we started with y nonzero.
Subtracting 1 from both sides,
1 = 0.

2791

[Witch_Doctor]

the whole thing about INK being attacked outside the court house make me wonder how did he become a leader of the zombies. Unless INK had planned it somehow. which makes me think that there something more going on than just randomness of the attack. I think might be a 1/2or 3/4 zombie. with all the chemicals that were injected into him there might be a leave of protection going on. the same type of protection as with Tanya and Saul. however he might be closer at the level of turning full blown instead.

Leader of the zombies indeed. Just how is he able to control them? Even the smart ones are able to do it. When Burt first describes the smart ones he says that they were giving orders to the other ones. Skittles makes the same claim, and Micheal describes Randy as controlling the others. Then there is Ink, he is seen calling them into and away from an attack, and even gave them spoken commands when he attacked CJ's tower; possibly even telling them to 'go' after the arena attack. At the arena, there is even a Z calling others to either eat or return to the arena.

Just what is it that compels the Zombies to stop zombie-ing and follow instructions? Is that all the survivors have to do, tell the zombies to stop or go here or there? I think a couple of characters at the arena barked orders to the zombies to let them go with no effect, so they must not be listening to people. But what is it that sparks a bit of reasoning o follow orders?

In addition to Olympian Zombies Ink seems to have a hive or minion of zombies. They were discovered to have a nest which by all accounts, seems like something that the zombies in other places do not do. Are these all the smart zombies?

[LiamKerrington]

I still go back to Saul in Chapter 2. Five million people in LA, three days and everyone is gone. It is as if turning is a rare event, then special ones seem to be an extra special intervention by Ink or someone like him.

My point since my first entries in this forum ... My guess: Most died. In order to be turned into a zeeh someone needs to survive the initial attack. But especially in the beginning them zeehs killed almost anyone on sight; so only few and probably random people "survived" and became zombs instead ... And the ones who were killed, at first they were scattered everywhere, but later on they were eaten or collected for food-purposes - just remember the food-stashes in the arena ...

----------------------

And another theorie:

Ink was in his van. The van was attacked by them zeehs, but them zeehs stopped ripping the car apart - just moments before they were able to get hold of Ink. Reason: They were attacked by police force or court-personell or at least realized: other easy prey!
Ink, a maniac as he was back then, might have understood this as kind of a sign sent by his god(dess) or whatever ... So he managed to free himself from the already badly damaged van. Then he understood: he was too weak, and he a) started to drink blood from downed zeehs and-slash-or b) (!) he inflicted wounds to, let's say, his arm (for example scratches) and drowned his wounded skin in the tissue and blood of one downed zeeh. And then biological body release products collide with rotating wind-moving machines: Ink turned himself into a zomb in order to become a lot more powerful - and his plan worked out very well ...

And, actually, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it was something like that about Ink ...

Best wishes!
Liam
He was able to break free from

[Storm]

And another theorie:

Ink was in his van. The van was attacked by them zeehs, but them zeehs stopped ripping the car appart - just moments before they were able to get hold of Ink.
..........
he was too weak, and he a) started to drink blood from downed zeehs or (!) he inflicted wounds to, let's say, his arm (scratches) and drowned his wounded skin in the tissue and blood of one downed zeeh. And then biological body relase products collide with rotating wind-moving machines: Ink turned himself in order to become a lot more powerful - and his plan worked out very well ...

And, actually, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it was something like that about Ink ...

Best wishes!
Liam
He was able to break free from
I kinda like that idea, and I'd be fine if that turned out to be the case. I just hope we'll somehow hear the story from his perspective... No idea how that'd happen, though.

[tonyhind86]

I wonder if they ever find a journal belonging to Bill Roberts from before the outbreak or his arrest. It would tie in nicely with the "journals" theme and help with the character's history and motivations.

Plus it'll be as spooky as hell.

[Footbutt]

I wonder if they ever find a journal belonging to Bill Roberts from before the outbreak or his arrest. It would tie in nicely with the "journals" theme and help with the character's history and motivations.

Plus it'll be as spooky as hell.

with a pinstripe suit, i just pictured Ink talking like a prohibition gangster.
"It was all a setup, see? They fingered me for the crime, but i ain't doin' any time, see!"

[tonyhind86]

with a pinstripe suit, i just pictured Ink talking like a prohibition gangster.
"It was all a setup, see? They fingered me for the crime, but i ain't doin' any time, see!"

I wonder if he has a matching fedora hat?

[ZombieWildfire]

t the whole thing about ground zero being clear of bodies and the haze is gone. then the one biter showing up, and #7 attacking and ripping into it. I am wondering if the ones that were dead at ground zero had gotten up after the haze had gone away.

Wow, if this were to be the case, this gives a whole new focus for how to stop the zombies. If Tanya and co can work out what the haze is/was and how to recreate it, it (coupled with multiple scuba diving suits!) would form a pretty efficient way of robbing the world of Zeds, sort if like a selective chemical warfare agent. Interesting.

[skankyfish]

Wow, if this were to be the case, this gives a whole new focus for how to stop the zombies. If Tanya and co can work out what the haze is/was and how to recreate it, it (coupled with multiple scuba diving suits!) would form a pretty efficient way of robbing the world of Zeds, sort if like a selective chemical warfare agent. Interesting.

Not totally selective; the humans and animals didn't much like being around ground zero either. It would make an awesome weapon though - flood an area with gas, swoop in whille the zombies are choking, and swiftly dispatch them all. Maybe they can figure out something more portable than scuba gear too? Some kind of respirator as normally used by the CDC or similar?

[tonyhind86]

Wow, if this were to be the case, this gives a whole new focus for how to stop the zombies. If Tanya and co can work out what the haze is/was and how to recreate it, it (coupled with multiple scuba diving suits!) would form a pretty efficient way of robbing the world of Zeds, sort if like a selective chemical warfare agent. Interesting.

Tanya probably may be able to - if there's any trace of the haze left in the area, she could probably identify what it is and how she and Saul have a high tolerance for it, then eventually synthesise a weaponised form.


Not totally selective; the humans and animals didn't much like being around ground zero either. It would make an awesome weapon though - flood an area with gas, swoop in whille the zombies are choking, and swiftly dispatch them all. Maybe they can figure out something more portable than scuba gear too? Some kind of respirator as normally used by the CDC or similar?

I'm voting Darth Vader masks all the way :excited:

[LiamKerrington]

***Ahem***



William I Roberts was in the van. Then the car and he got attacked. He was wounded by a zeeh; but since he was kind of "canned in" they left him alone, because they had plenty of other and better opportunity to get food - all the lawyers, police men, court people, other convicts etc. ... So there Ink was, in his van, badly wounded. And since he was not killed, he turned into a Smart One - probably the first one to show up. And he became powerful - like what we know from regulars as well as Little Ones and all the other special zombs. He could rip the van apart like nothing (do you remember the first scene Michael described in #1-1 - with the group of zeehs ripping apart a car in order to get to the honking driver and to devour him?). So Ink was able to get free. He was not targeted by other zeehs anymore. And he did, what all them zeehs did. But in contrary to those he kept his mind. So he "attacked" other zeehs in order to play the "alpha-card" and to make other zeehs follow him as minions; and a pack of zeehs was created. And the bigger the group became, the more Ink looked for suitable locations to create his small army of zeehs - that's when the arena was established as the pit. And since he remained some of his intelligence and smartness, he also (re)activated his scientific skills. With the hospital around he had the perfect location to experiment on special zeehs. And this he did. The end of the story up until now you already know ...

I guess I got pretty close ... *Yeah*! :yay: Happens so rarely, I need to pat my back myself ...

[Tar Heel Fan]

CJ was also spared by Ink, remember... I'm wondering if CJ and Duncan knew each other before everything happened and both knew Dr. Bill. Or perhaps they both knew him but from different places. Maybe Skittles one worked at Radon and CJ was one of Bill's prison guards who was nice to him. If Ink experimented on himsef to become what he is, he probably would remember those who showed kindness to him in the past

[kent17]

I don't think he spared her out of any sense of kindness, in my mind it was more about "she isn't worth going after". Although there is something about ink that I just can't seem to wrap my head around, so I could be totally off.

[Elisa]

Didn't he also let Riley live? hmmmm

[Grognaurd]

Riley once and Kilani twice (maybe)

[FunkyDung]

Sorry if this has already been suggested, but is Nick Rivers named after Val Kilmer's character in Top Secret?

[Witch_Doctor]

I wonder if they ever find a journal belonging to Bill Roberts from before the outbreak or his arrest. It would tie in nicely with the "journals" theme and help with the character's history and motivations.

Plus it'll be as spooky as hell.

There was a Journal Entry Contest and this was the winner. Deacon Tyler's Ink Journal Entry (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3637-COMPETITION-Create-your-own-journal-page!-(CONTAINS-SPOILERS)&p=48420&viewfull=1#post48420).

This thing is as chilling as the story itself. It even mentions Grog's crows (Birds) and Ink's company (If he owned Raydon Labs).

[Witch_Doctor]

Wow, if this were to be the case, this gives a whole new focus for how to stop the zombies. If Tanya and co can work out what the haze is/was and how to recreate it, it (coupled with multiple scuba diving suits!) would form a pretty efficient way of robbing the world of Zeds, sort if like a selective chemical warfare agent. Interesting.

Unless the haze is what causes the infection. It's never really clear what happen to CJ's guy that had to be shot at ground zero. She doesn't say, and Victor assumes that the area, 'can turn you into one of them.." But, I'm guessing that it is as straight forward as a zombie making gas.

[Storm]

There was a Journal Entry Contest and this was the winner. Deacon Tyler's Ink Journal Entry (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3637-COMPETITION-Create-your-own-journal-page!-(CONTAINS-SPOILERS)&p=48420&viewfull=1#post48420).

This thing is as chilling as the story itself. It even mentions Grog's crows (Birds) and Ink's company (If he owned Raydon Labs).

Hmm, I wonder how well OCR would work on them pictures :)
Guess I'll have to force a sighted soul to read it out loud for me. Lol. It sounds awesome, though.

[Footbutt]

Unless the haze is what causes the infection. It's never really clear what happen to CJ's guy that had to be shot at ground zero. She doesn't say, and Victor assumes that the area, 'can turn you into one of them.." But, I'm guessing that it is as straight forward as a zombie making gas.

CJ seemed to think that the cracks in Inglewood were the cause of mutated Zombies. "Some of our teams got sick when they went near this place, called it: Ground Zero."
it's kind of funny how it seems almost like fact that that is NOT the case. but really, it's anyone's ballgame. so many hints, so many clues, and so many possibilities.
THAT is a main factor in keeing this story interesting. re-listens are so fun to pick up random things you forgot/neglected earlier!

[tonyhind86]

There was a Journal Entry Contest and this was the winner. Deacon Tyler's Ink Journal Entry (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3637-COMPETITION-Create-your-own-journal-page!-(CONTAINS-SPOILERS)&p=48420&viewfull=1#post48420).

This thing is as chilling as the story itself. It even mentions Grog's crows (Birds) and Ink's company (If he owned Raydon Labs).

That looks exactly how I had imagined it. Listening to a narrated transcript would be awesome.

[Storm]

That looks exactly how I had imagined it. Listening to a narrated transcript would be awesome.

It surely would... Since my screenreader can't handle handwritten stuff. :)
About how long is it?

[tonyhind86]

I'll double check when I get back to my computer. If you're using a mobile device, I'll see about trying to find some form of mobile-friendly version.

[Grognaurd]

Did they read it for one of the WND episodes? That would probably be easiest for Storm. I do not think there will be an optical character recognizer good enough for the text.

[tonyhind86]

I've just tried viewing the jpeg files on my phone - some of the writing is too difficult to make out, and I agree that there won't be any OCR able enough to read all of it. Maybe when I get on my PC tomorrow, I'll try and write a transcript of it for this thread. The style in which it's written is absolutely brilliant, top marks to the guy who penned it.

[Storm]

Did they read it for one of the WND episodes? That would probably be easiest for Storm. I do not think there will be an optical character recognizer good enough for the text.
My thought as well, but I don't remember anything like that, and I've been listening since WND40-ish. It should be around 50, I think... Maybe I've just forgot it. I'll check again.
...
Okay, ran through WND49-51 without finding it, so... Seems like they didn't. Hehe.


I've just tried viewing the jpeg files on my phone - some of the writing is too difficult to make out, and I agree that there won't be any OCR able enough to read all of it. Maybe when I get on my PC tomorrow, I'll try and write a transcript of it for this thread. The style in which it's written is absolutely brilliant, top marks to the guy who penned it.
You would be absolutely awesome if you could do that, given that it wouldn't be too much work, of course.
By style do you then men the choice of words and such, or the actual way the intry looks? :)

[tonyhind86]

You would be absolutely awesome if you could do that, given that it wouldn't be too much work, of course.
By style do you then men the choice of words and such, or the actual way the intry looks? :)

It shouldn't be too much trouble; it'll keep me entertained for a while anyway. The context of the writing and the way it looks on the page both make it an epic journal entry.