Chapter 39-3 Chemical Reactions

[nikvoodoo]

Bring on Raydon Labs!!!

Or a swerve so we don't even see Raydon Labs!! Happy Monday!

[scbubba]

Monday! Monday! Monday!!!!

:yay:

[Grognaurd]

I know this is not going to happen, but...

I think of the PS4 commercial with Michael and his soldiers advancing on Raydon Labs. They find Burt, Riley and about 1,000 zombies--Dead. So, is Ink, Randy and Scratch. Burt and Riley each raise a bottle saying you missed it, we got here a few hours ago..

[scbubba]

I know this is not going to happen, but...

I think of the PS4 commercial with Michael and his soldiers advancing on Raydon Labs. They find Burt, Riley and about 1,000 zombies--Dead. So, is Ink, Randy and Scratch. Burt and Riley each raise a bottle saying you missed it, we got here a few hours ago..

^^^THIS^^^ just made my morning!

[Grognaurd]

The even better part? Michael will make Riley and Burt write it all down, so we get to hear it happen TWICE!

[Storm]

I have this annoying feeling that we're switching perspective and won't hear anything about Raydon in this chapter.
We might follow Burt and Riley instead.
...Michael will rebreak his arm, I just know it! And he'll say something like "at least it's not like the last time", and then tell Puck the story.

[Merlin1274]

I am not wanting to predict but I feel we will see the intro to Raydon and then kick over to something else. I am not sure if he split off to Burt and Riley it would not sit well unless they have a part in what is to come at Raydon.. So it builds up to it. Well here is to waiting till noon today.. Damn Daylight savings time has be all screwed up. Come 11 I am going to want to eat and listen and I will not be able to.

[Storm]

For me DST has been wonderful. I can get home from school, and 10 minutes later I can download the new episode. Earlier I had to wait an hour. :)
Gives me time enough to fill the bathtub and sinks, reload Shirley, and barricade my front door. :D

[zombie Danny]

It's Monday bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ZombieWildfire]

I get so excited for each new episode nowadays. I used to be able to save them up for a while so I could listen to a load in one go, but now, I have to listen to it straight away. Too... Much... To... Find... Out...!

[Witch_Doctor]

Ha! I didn't set my clock back, so I get it an hour before you guys!!!! SUCKASSSSSS! :p

[UndeadSweeper]

Witch_Doctor How many time do I have to tell not to mess with time vortex.

[LiamKerrington]

Ok. #39-1 and #39-2 had to much "harmony" in them. #39-3 will end with some drama, cliffhanger, excrements hitting the ventilator ...
I won't expect Burt and Riley to show up. How well would they connect with "Chemical Reactions"???
I guess we will close the gap in the triangle Michael and Soldiers <.> Glen/ Datu and Tanya/ Kelly <.> CJ and minions; to #39-3 partially would be about Michael and CJ getting in touch again; and in order to fuel the background tension something bad should happen ... Do you remember CJ wanting them to do a special build job? That's what #39-3 will be about - I guess ...

But I may be totally wrong, and Mr Whiskers shows up as the minion-pet of Skittles rampaging through the Zombocalypse ... What a picture ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

Sorry, I keep jumping back to before the time you told me. My bad. :D

[LiamKerrington]

Looks like I am wrong ... Still listening ...

[Witch_Doctor]

Do you remember CJ wanting them to do a special build job? That's what #39-3 will be about - I guess ...

But I may be totally wrong, and Mr Whiskers shows up as the minion-pet of Skittles rampaging through the Zombocalypse ... What a picture ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Or worse, Zombie Sean holding a plunger from the running water project that got him killed.

Hmm? Water stations don't seem to go well for the survivors. waterbottle:)

[UndeadSweeper]

Do we at least get to see the logo? Anyone else excepting some resident evil sound? Door opening and music.

[LiamKerrington]

That was a good and rich episode. Very creepy. I like it a lot.

[UndeadSweeper]

ADLO have once again evolute. So what are we names these?

2761

[Bullethead]

So Puck is calling them "little One" now ? I thought everyone called them the "numbered ones".

[Nathan.Luiz]

Interesting observation, in 23-1 (where Michael sees Randy outside the tower), Steven comments on the zombies that are following him: "a few of those were burned, did you see that?" (or something along those lines). Burns because of the chemicals???

Very good episode today, an air of mystery in it, a lot to think about after that. William Roberts = Bill Roberts, surely....

[Storm]

WOOOW! I love this chapter!
So... No formic acid or formalthehyde, or how ever you spell it... Seems more like we've got a mad scientist...
...With tattoos all over his body? O.O
William, you are one big mystery!

[UndeadSweeper]

Wait I just thought of this, they can speak, read and write????

[Witch_Doctor]

Interesting observation, in 23-1 (where Michael sees Randy outside the tower), Steven comments on the zombies that are following him: "a few of those were burned, did you see that?" (or something along those lines). Burns because of the chemicals???

Very good episode today, an air of mystery in it, a lot to think about after that. William Roberts = Bill Roberts, surely....

I've always thought it was the fire from the arena or maybe even the war with the Mallers, but hey, with new info.....

[Storm]

Maybe they just found Dr. Ink's notes from before the outbreak... Anyways, now we at least know why they keep growing and getting stronger...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follistatin

[Witch_Doctor]

So Puck is calling them "little One" now ? I thought everyone called them the "numbered ones".

They've been calling them little ones throughout this season.

[Nathan.Luiz]

I've always thought it was the fire from the arena or maybe even the war with the Mallers, but hey, with new info.....

I was thinking along the lines of the Randy link really. Randy found with chemicals from Raydon Labs, zombies following Randy covered in burns (albeit about 7 months earlier), maybe just a coincidence, maybe not...

[UndeadSweeper]

Maybe they just found Dr. Ink's notes from before the outbreak... Anyways, now we at least know why they keep growing and getting stronger...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follistatin

I think this was a shopping list. So it sound more recent. But the growing stronger may stop since the place when up in flame and Randy broken the ones he had.

[Bullethead]

Perhaps Randy had the viles to help defend himself from Ink. Randy could be leaving clues for Michael to end all of this.

[Witch_Doctor]

Dang, how long was that police tape on the door? Arrest -> Trial -> Z-Day.

This story gets more unpredictable as it progresses. Every new revelation and clue become a nexus of what we knew, suspected or didn't understand and a multitude of new ways the story can go.

[UndeadSweeper]

Perhaps Randy had the viles to help defend himself from Ink. Randy could be leaving clues for Michael to end all of this.

Good, someone backing my Randy = Starscream theory. :)

[poniesandzombies]

Holy f"@&ing crap!!!!!!!

[Footbutt]

awesome episode...

one of the first links i pulled up for "Follistatin" is for Follistatin Gene Therapy... that is being researched at my wife's workplace!!! no!!!

anyway...
so William Isaac Roberts = Bill Roberts = Ink
Ink has tatoos that cover him from head to toe. how many Pharmacutical companies do you know hire people with that many exposed tatoos? the broken down door with Police tape suggests that his office was a crime scene (of a killing? his capture?) or just a wardened off area for the Police to conduct futher investigations.

my conclusion: Bill Roberts was a researcher/technician for Raydon Labs before he went on his KILLING SPREE (Halo reference). i think his connection to the zombies is only of their evolution/enhancements/new breeds. plus that whole "leader of the pack" thing he's got going on... ugh.

if "the smarter you are in life, the smarter you are in death" holds true, then possibly your memories are intact, given you're smart/crazy enough--thus Ink's ability to use his former research to enhance his Zombie Army.

meh?

[Gooer]

So I did some research, and the first chemical (Solmatropan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone)) is a growth hormone (explains the little ones' rapid growth). Not sure what the second chemical Puck found, and the Follistatin, a chemical in the body that inhibits another chemical called Myostatin (which stops/slows down muscle growth... I think) Like this (http://forums.steroidal.com/hgh-peptides-insulin-forum/328-follistatin-344-log.html)...... As for the Dr, could it really be THE Bill Roberts....? Interesting episode, shame we have to wait two weeks for the next episode.......

[7oddisdead]

Holy f"@&ing crap!!!!!!!

x2

let the rampant speculation begin!!

[Grognaurd]

What they find at Raydon Labs is a bunch of body building supplies.

Puck mentions
Somatropin. More commonly called human growth hormone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone

Stansozolol a testosterone derivative
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanozolol

Follistatin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follistatin

I do not understand the other things he says. mgs is often used as an abbreviation of milligrams. Araness? I do not know.

[UndeadSweeper]

Nik, you should separate this thread to three different parts. CSI, Chemical Team, and those who want to just talk about the eps. With the chemical set that drop on us and the CSI info dump we about to get really messily here.

[SmokeyZombified]

As the Leader and only member of the Anthony Robbins fan club, I am happy to announce that despite being fat Robbins has survived this Chapter! Free beers for everyone!

[Merlin1274]

Awesome episode.. Lots of good info. Lots of possibilities.. The chemicals were used in the making of the little ones and others. Ink needs those chems to further his research. Randy is Inks gofer and he screwed up. I now believe him dropping the bottles were not on purpose. I think they spooked him and he had to make a getaway.
But this can go in so many different directions.. Now the 2 wk long wait. Man this will suck.. Then we will hear from Burt and Riley. Since we were not left with a heavy cliff hanger. But some one will remember Bill Roberts from the DVR and then it will all come back to them or Kelly will know who he is.

[HardKor]

Holy Schnikes! This was meat filled episode if I ever heard one.
OK so let's take this one piece at a time:

1. Follistatin: a couple people have noted that it helps regulate muscle growth. Its pretty easy to draw the connection between that and the rapid growth of the little ones. I did notice something on the follistatin wikipedia page that seemed rather interesting

"Follistatin is being studied for its role in regulation of muscle growth in mice, as an antagonist to myostatin (also known as GDF-8, a TGF superfamily member) which inhibits excessive muscle growth."
I've got a feeling that myostatin might just be the next thing we hear about in the podcast as a possible way to combat this stuff.

2. Dr. William Issac Roberts: Alright! So Bill Roberts, the tattoo covered sociopath mentioned in chapter 2 and widely believe to be The One With the Markings, is a doctor/researchers at a pharmecutical company...wait WHAT? Footbutt hit this one on the nose, how many people covered in tattoos get hired as medical researchers? So unless this is another Bill Roberts we're talking about (maybe a relative, using his psychotic family member as a guinea pig?), I'm thinking the tattoos came after his arrest.
Also in the newscast back in chapter 2, Roberts was referred to as just Bill Roberts, and not Dr. William (or Bill) Roberts. So here's my guess, ol' Dr. Ink was cooking something nasty in his lab and got caught doing it. Ethics violations and police inquiries follow and pretty soon Dr. Ink is sitting in a jail cell slowly loosing his connection to reality. He rigs himself up a nice prison tattoo gun and start covering himself in signs and symbols related to his research (thinking back to the chapter 27 artwork). The victims' families that were mentioned in chapter 2, were the families of Dr. Ink's patients who probably came to him thinking they were taking part in some sort of drug trial and ended up as guinea pigs.

3. And on a final note, I don't know what those chemicals were that ate through that little one, but I'm thinking that might be nifty knowledge to have to an emergency. But then again, trying to weaponize chemicals chemicals like that can be pretty damn dangerous too. A shift in the wind at a bad time and you could end up on the receiving end of your own weapon. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone at least brings up the possibility of using that stuff against the zombies.

[Th3_T3ch]

So no one on the thread seems to know what Follistatin is, so I did some research. Follistatin is a protein that is often found in ovaries and the skin. It helps skin reformation and improves muscle growth. This is probably the chemical that was found on Randy is the reason why the Little Ones aren't so little anymore. I think Ink/Bill Roberts/ WI Roberts P.h.d was using it on the behemoths first and then on his little ones after he perfected the dose. Randy might have been turned by Ink himself and is why Randy is more special than any of the smart ones. Also the first smart one we hear about is on the roof of Locked and Loaded, and is from Raydon Labs. Too many things are stacking up here. And we know Kc isn't a man of coincidence, so that means that Dr Roberts/Ink is either the cause of all of this or is the reason why LA is so much worse. We heard no reports from Boulder that Denver had special zombies and even down by the colony they have gotten more people from San Diego than from LA.
Conclusion: Dr Roberts is Pinstripes. He is for some reason different, and probably not just because he was schizophrenic. We know he was incredibly smart, and important enough to make headlines in the news. When Roberts was turned he retained most of his intelligence and used it to create a special zombie army.

[UndeadSweeper]

As the Leader and only member of the Anthony Robbins fan club, I am happy to announce that despite being fat Robbins has survived this Chapter! Free beers for everyone!

As member of Victor's Mucho Macho Fan Club, Victor can have easily got on this mission. Come on, he has lost weight and could got toe to toe with Number one.

[Footbutt]

I've got a feeling that myostatin might just be the next thing we hear about in the podcast as a possible way to combat this stuff.
great catch!



2. Dr. William Issac Roberts: Alright! ....So unless this is another Bill Roberts we're talking about (maybe a relative, using his psychotic family member as a guinea pig?), I'm thinking the tattoos came after his arrest.
Also in the newscast back in chapter 2, Roberts was referred to as just Bill Roberts, and not Dr. William (or Bill) Roberts. So here's my guess, ol' Dr. Ink was cooking something nasty in his lab and got caught doing it. Ethics violations and police inquiries follow and pretty soon Dr. Ink is sitting in a jail cell slowly loosing his connection to reality. He rigs himself up a nice prison tattoo gun and start covering himself in signs and symbols related to his research (thinking back to the chapter 27 artwork). The victims' families that were mentioned in chapter 2, were the families of Dr. Ink's patients who probably came to him thinking they were taking part in some sort of drug trial and ended up as guinea pigs.

again, this is good stuff.

but where does the "Paranoid Schizophrenic" come in to play with Ink?
was he a mad scientist? or did he develop this craziness from doing his 9-5 at Raydon?

[SmokeyZombified]

As member of Victor's Mucho Macho Fan Club, Victor can have easily got on this mission. Come on, he has lost weight and could got toe to toe with Number one.

Obviously Robbins is far superior to Victor in every way. He's funnier, a better shot, more handsome than Victor and has killed multiple little ones with the mini gun. That said, I think it was hinted that Victor screwed something up during the four month time jump. In all, Robbins has never screwed up and is much more reliable *puffs chest out proudly*

[Grognaurd]

About the crows, there would have been a lot more of them in this episode, but SCBubba showed me his mad skills at killing them. I needed to exceed daily hunting limits to chow down from calling the FO bottle Formic Acid. I guess 7odd and I gotta get to work on the Were Alive Fanfic. So, do we put the MyrmiZoms in Greece or over in Hawaii where the really nasty ones are, lol!

Loved the episode, KC! Is it next next Mnday, yet?

[UndeadSweeper]

Obviously Robbins is far superior to Victor in every way. He's funnier, a better shot, more handsome than Victor and has killed multiple little ones with the mini gun. That said, I think it was hinted that Victor screwed something up during the four month time jump. In all, Robbins has never screwed up and is much more reliable *puffs chest out proudly*

Come on, Victor has the girl, the looks and the talent. Ha, behind mini-gun even Hope can kill a little one. But has Robbins look one straight in the eye and then stop it with a syringe. We talk about Chuck Norris stuff here.

[7oddisdead]

Well guys, I'm done with the theorizing. All I'll say is June 9,2011.

have fun gents and ladies,I might chime in on little stuff...but otherwise I just want to enjoy the show.

great episode.

[Kc]

As leader of the Lizzy Fabre fan club, I would like to say that she, although pregnant, would have been able to handle things without spilling a drop of any chemicals. #justsaying.

[Witch_Doctor]

awesome episode...

one of the first links i pulled up for "Follistatin" is for Follistatin Gene Therapy... that is being researched at my wife's workplace!!! no!!!

anyway...
so William Isaac Roberts = Bill Roberts = Ink
Ink has tatoos that cover him from head to toe. how many Pharmacutical companies do you know hire people with that many exposed tatoos? the broken down door with Police tape suggests that his office was a crime scene (of a killing? his capture?) or just a wardened off area for the Police to conduct futher investigations.

my conclusion: Bill Roberts was a researcher/technician for Raydon Labs before he went on his KILLING SPREE (Halo reference). i think his connection to the zombies is only of their evolution/enhancements/new breeds. plus that whole "leader of the pack" thing he's got going on... ugh.

if "the smarter you are in life, the smarter you are in death" holds true, then possibly your memories are intact, given you're smart/crazy enough--thus Ink's ability to use his former research to enhance his Zombie Army.

meh?

Looks like you've gotten someone's attention.

2762

[LiamKerrington]

I've always thought it was the fire from the arena or maybe even the war with the Mallers, but hey, with new info.....

Exactly.

[Witch_Doctor]

Well guys, I'm done with the theorizing. All I'll say is June 9,2011.

have fun gents and ladies,I might chime in on little stuff...but otherwise I just want to enjoy the show.

great episode.

I think I want to fold too. For now at least. The surprises are too awesome anyway.

[Hoff4D]

Finally closed on my house 2 weeks ago and it's a fixer-upper, so I've been hella busy, still been listening though. No time for Forums :mad:....of course I have to be out of my apt and into the house by the 15th, and this is when Kc decides to turn it to 11 on the "lets tie things together" scale....DAMN i want to sit here and speculate for an hour or two!

Oh well, great episode! I'll hopefully be back at 100% contribution level in a week or two! Lot's of forum catching up to do.



btw, "Rocket Surgery" Boondock Saints nod?:cool: (if not just ignore me, it was funny either way)

[Kc]

Looks like you've gotten someone's attention.

2762

I liked the halo reference. That is, pre #4.

EDIT:



btw, "Rocket Surgery" Boondock Saints nod?:cool: (if not just ignore me, it was funny either way)
Oddly enough, I head it from someone in the military before that movie came out. I think it was in engineering school or from a Drill Sergeant. Anyway...

Back to the "attention" thing. As we get into the last season there will inevitably be people who get some things right and wrong, but eventually you'll all figure it out. I wouldn't use me as a guide whether someone is right or wrong by a like. :)

[LiamKerrington]

Dang, how long was that police tape on the door? Arrest -> Trial -> Z-Day.

This story gets more unpredictable as it progresses. Every new revelation and clue become a nexus of what we knew, suspected or didn't understand and a multitude of new ways the story can go.

Crackpot:
1)
Raydon Labs Dr. W I Roberts and Bill Roberts => Dr. Jekyl and Mr Hyde?
2)
Raydon Labs did experiments on people - especially mentally ill people to cure them. Dr W I Roberts wanted to help his brother.
To do so he had to violate some rules. And police got all the the attention they needed to break into his territory.
Bill Roberts was on his way back to his mental facility after he had some more tests from Raydon on him.
When z-pocalypse struck, for whatever reason Bill Roberts turned into Ink/ the one with the markings/ the coloured one/ super-zomb; and 'cause he was one of the smarter ones, some of his conscious was "saved". And he started remembering the Raydon Labs facility. So he sent some of the smart ones and guys like Randy there; maybe he, too, was there. But to do exactly what? Procede with the experiments started by Dr. W I Roberts?

But all this leaves something important open: Is there a link between zombs and Raydon? We should not forget: the zombocalypse seemed to have started in many locations almost simultaneously. The question here would be: did Raydon Labs have labs everywhere? Or did Raydon Labs provide certain specialities that allowed zombs to become special in LA (only)?

Best wishes!
Liam

[Hoff4D]

I think I want to fold too. For now at least. The surprises are too awesome anyway.

I have read exactly ZERO forums in the last 3 weeks, almost ready to come back and bounce awesome theories off you guys and you're gonna throw in the towel NOW?!.....ouch man, ouch

[UndeadSweeper]

I have read exactly ZERO forums in the last 3 weeks, almost ready to come back and bounce awesome theories off you guys and you're gonna throw in the towel NOW?!.....ouch man, ouch

HoFF4D there was a lot info in that eps. this forum is about to get swamped.

[Witch_Doctor]

I liked the halo reference. That is, pre #4.

DoOOHHH!!

[Witch_Doctor]

Back to the "attention" thing. As we get into the last season there will inevitably be people who get some things right and wrong, but eventually you'll all figure it out. I wouldn't use me as a guide whether someone is right or wrong by a like. :)

DoOh DoOH O_o

[Hoff4D]

HoFF4D there was a lot info in that eps. this forum is about to get swamped.

I know, and I'm already a few threads behind on here, so perhaps I'll be desensitized in a few days as well....this is gonna be a brutal few weeks

[Hoff4D]

I liked the halo reference. That is, pre #4.

EDIT:


Oddly enough, I head it from someone in the military before that movie came out. I think it was in engineering school or from a Drill Sergeant. Anyway...


Alright, I'll take that, at least you knew what I was talking about so I don't feel TOTALLY out of line equating Romeo to Puck

[cupcakezombie]

One thing to mention is that scientists are people too and can have tattoos, in fact I know quite a few with tattoos. If William Roberts PhD is the best and brightest, Raydon Labs probably overlooked them. Or they may have hired him before he got them all and he added to them over the years.

[7oddisdead]

I think I want to fold too. For now at least. The surprises are too awesome anyway.

also for hoff


not throwing in the towel...just hoping others will piece it all together.i have my "what happened" theory...some stuff was wrong due to lack of evidence, but....im sticking with the plot of it.

[UndeadSweeper]

As leader of the Lizzy Fabre fan club, I would like to say that she, although pregnant, would have been able to handle things without spilling a drop of any chemicals. #justsaying.

But can she do it without waddling? #somethingSaulwouldsay

[Verse]

I do not think that Bill Roberts and Dr. William Roberts are the same person. For something to get to court takes a while. Even a Murder. Much less multiple murders. Also if he was doing some naughty human testing. I don't think they would have police taped that room off for a year or more (My guess how long it would have been to arrest and set a trial). That and as it was pointed out he was refered to on the DvR as Bill Roberts. They would have still called him doctor regardless of what he did. Think of Dr. Kevorkian. Or anyone from the Nazi camps.

My guess is that they are related. Both myself and my father have the same first name. My guess is that Dr. Roberts is the father. I know that was said earlier. I am jumping on that wagon.

My Guess is that TOWTM and Pinstrip suit are Father and Son. TOWTM is Bill and Pinstrip is Dr. Roberts. That is if they are different ppl. My theroy is that TOWTM may have been sickly and Daddy was trying to make him better. Side effect was aggression. Would explain why there was a "Nest" in The Arena as well as The Hospital.

[pmchawk]

Lol. Rocket surgery.

[UndeadSweeper]

I do not think that Bill Roberts and Dr. William Roberts are the same person. For something to get to court takes a while. Even a Murder. Much less multiple murders. Also if he was doing some naughty human testing. I don't think they would have police taped that room off for a year or more (My guess how long it would have been to arrest and set a trial). That and as it was pointed out he was refered to on the DvR as Bill Roberts. They would have still called him doctor regardless of what he did. Think of Dr. Kevorkian. Or anyone from the Nazi camps.

My guess is that they are related. Both myself and my father have the same first name. My guess is that Dr. Roberts is the father. I know that was said earlier. I am jumping on that wagon.

My Guess is that TOWTM and Pinstrip suit are Father and Son. TOWTM is Bill and Pinstrip is Dr. Roberts. That is if they are different ppl. My theroy is that TOWTM may have been sickly and Daddy was trying to make him better. Side effect was aggression. Would explain why there was a "Nest" in The Arena as well as The Hospital.

Does anyone know how long Bill Robert would have been in jail? The tattoos he could received in prison. Courts case take a while in the US. It the Bill and Williams that I think everyone is associate with. Those two name are interchange.

[Hoff4D]

ADLO have once again evolute. So what are we names these?

2761

AADLO

Little Behemoths

MegaInklings

Inkstoise

Inkzard......alright, I'm done

[FunkyDung]

excrements hitting the ventilator ...But I may be totally wrong, and Mr Whiskers shows up as the minion-pet of Skittles rampaging through the Zombocalypse ...

Wow: "excrement hitting the ventilator", Mr. Whiskers, and Skittles in one post! A trifecta! Well done, sir. :)

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Wow. Great episode.

- Michael still has it, fortes fortuna adiuvat!
- great episode built-up, tension, action, a lot of revelations and an satisfying end.
- hero body count: 0.
- Guess what, Michael's right, it is not over yet. CJ may try to hide but it will be either the colonists or the zeds.

[Hoff4D]

So I did some research, and the first chemical (Solmatropan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone)) is a growth hormone (explains the little ones' rapid growth). Not sure what the second chemical Puck found, and the Follistatin, a chemical in the body that inhibits another chemical called Myostatin (which stops/slows down muscle growth... I think) Like this (http://forums.steroidal.com/hgh-peptides-insulin-forum/328-follistatin-344-log.html)...... As for the Dr, could it really be THE Bill Roberts....? Interesting episode, shame we have to wait two weeks for the next episode.......

I've actually read up a bit on myostatin before... here's a link to a reddit post (sorry), http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1gupnu/a_cow_born_without_the_protein_myostatin_which/ that has a pic of a cow with a myostatin gene mutation, and some good (and some bad) discussion on it. most relevant comment seen here:

"Clarification:
-This is the result of a genetic mutation in the gene for mysotatin, which as the title says, is responsible for inhibiting muscle growth. Without a functioning copy of this gene muscle can grow much larger than normal.
-To the people saying that this is "just a Belgian Blue" sure, I guess so. But the reason these animals look muscular is because the myostatin mutation is common in that breed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Blue
-This mutation is seen in other animals such as mice and also dogs (warning some mouse gore) http://drugline.org/medic/term/myostatin/
-If I remember correctly there was one published case of this myostatin mutation in humans, but the research group has since lost contact with the affected family. (found link: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5278028/ns/health-genetics/t/genetic-mutationturns-tot-superboy/#.UcWylZz6s_k)
-Also I think the same phenotype can be obtained by simply inhibiting myostatin (no genetic alteration required!)
Source: I work in a neuromuscular research lab"

I, Hoff4D, do not work in a research lab, that was just the full quote

[SmokeyZombified]

Come on, Victor has the girl, the looks and the talent. Ha, behind mini-gun even Hope can kill a little one. But has Robbins look one straight in the eye and then stop it with a syringe. We talk about Chuck Norris stuff here.

When Datu saw Kelly naked , it completely freaked him out. So you argument that Victor got the girl is invalid, Kelly even hit on Kalani *shudders*. Robbins on the other hand, Is obviously constantly surrounded by the ladies

[Grognaurd]

I think there is a connection between Bill and William Roberts. They could be the same person, but as has been pointed out, the old news clips do not use the title Dr. Could it be Father and Son? There is President Ronald Reagan. He has a son that goes by Ron Reagan. Not Junior.

What we see at Raydon can do a really good job building special zombies, what we have does not get to the root cause. Even complex chemicals are not really contagious.

[cupcakezombie]

Does anyone know how long Bill Robert would have been in jail? The tattoos he could received in prison. Courts case take a while in the US. It the Bill and Williams that I think everyone is associate with. Those two name are interchange.

Just relistened to the Tivo snippets. The insanity plea was just accepted for Bill Roberts - nicknamed Ink - after being convicted of multiple homicides last May (1 year before the start of the show I assume). Doctors confirmed he is paranoid schizophrenic. The family itself was devastated. He was being transferred to a mental health facility. I guess there is a small possibility that the room was still cordoned off as evidence for the trial. Kelly will surely know however and tell us which Roberts worked at Raydon.

[Storm]

I do not think that Bill Roberts and Dr. William Roberts are the same person.
Only problem with your theory is that Saul descripes him in 36 when he opens the gate after killing the colonist they left behind. Saul calls him "the one in the suit with the markings on his face". Unless daddy decided to tattoo himself so he'd look more like his lil boy to get a better relationship or something...
But yeah...

[UndeadSweeper]

When Datu saw Kelly naked , it completely freaked him out. So you argument that Victor got the girl is invalid, Kelly even hit on Kalani *shudders*. Robbins on the other hand, Is obviously constantly surrounded by the ladies

Because he so slow it obvious that he would be surrounded by the ladies, zombies. They like their meal with meat on the bone. :cool:

[Hoff4D]

So no one on the thread seems to know what Follistatin is, so I did some research. Follistatin is a protein that is often found in ovaries and the skin. It helps skin reformation and improves muscle growth. This is probably the chemical that was found on Randy is the reason why the Little Ones aren't so little anymore. I think Ink/Bill Roberts/ WI Roberts P.h.d was using it on the behemoths first and then on his little ones after he perfected the dose. Randy might have been turned by Ink himself and is why Randy is more special than any of the smart ones. Also the first smart one we hear about is on the roof of Locked and Loaded, and is from Raydon Labs. Too many things are stacking up here. And we know Kc isn't a man of coincidence, so that means that Dr Roberts/Ink is either the cause of all of this or is the reason why LA is so much worse. We heard no reports from Boulder that Denver had special zombies and even down by the colony they have gotten more people from San Diego than from LA.
Conclusion: Dr Roberts is Pinstripes. He is for some reason different, and probably not just because he was schizophrenic. We know he was incredibly smart, and important enough to make headlines in the news. When Roberts was turned he retained most of his intelligence and used it to create a special zombie army.

Replying to your post because it sparked this thought in me...

Dr. William I Roberts was a genius, predicted the Earth fighting back against humanity in a mass biological attack (the haze) and decided to try and adapt humanity to survive it rather than prevent it, as he deemed it impossible. He began testing these chemicals on humans to get them impervious to what he predicted would be the viral outbreak from Earth on humanity (The normal ones being caused by the haze, or bitten by that of a haze stricken individual). His tests resulted in several deaths, he was arrested, stripped of his credentials (no long Dr.) but he was driven mad by his passion and kept his theories going in prison, the only way to keep them forever, to tattoo himself. So he drew all his conclusions on his own skin, and when broke out he kicked his 'tests' into overdrive since the haze already had been globally emitted by mother nature (read: testing in Devil's workshop). Earth's virus to rid her of humanity was one of self-depreciation....causing us to each other. Dr. William I Roberts decided to counter act the spread by giving everyone a small amount of the virus (prevents the normals from spreading it to his subjects, much like an immunization except not 100% dead injection), thus the normals leave us alone, and he juiced up the vaccine so we remain species supreme on planet earth (Inklings/ADLOs). Honestly folks, he's here to help us.

[Hoff4D]

also for hoff


not throwing in the towel...just hoping others will piece it all together.i have my "what happened" theory...some stuff was wrong due to lack of evidence, but....im sticking with the plot of it.

Fair enough

[Grognaurd]

There was a lawyer who represented some people suing the Government for work on Area51. The government classified the dude's office for years. We also did not see any really heavy security. Burt says that is a level 3 ID. There could still be more to Raydon Labs whe have not seen.

[Eviebae]

INFORMATION!!! JOY EXPLOSION!!! <br />
<br />
Even Jim Gleason sounded excited <br />
<br />
Weight lifting? Someone kept saying one or two seasons ago on the forum that they thought the behemoths had been weight lifters....

[dontkillburt]

So the zombies are on PED's? Great news (and comes with a automatic 50-game suspension according to Major League Baseball). We should see some home run records fall this season.

Oh, a couple back-to-back memorable quotes from General Puck this episode…

"Labels on the outside of the tanks, saw them earlier…skulls, crossbones, bad…not rocket surgery". (at 21:10). Meaning that Rocketry is no longer a "science". Bad news for NASA, good news for Obama Care rocket surgeons.

"Need Tanya to check on it. Follistatin…F-O-L-L-I-S…tatin?" (at 21:30) Just couldn't spell that one out all the way.

Love Puck. Hasn't replaced Burt as my hero of course, but at least I know he'll be human until the bitter (or is that biter?) end.

[UndeadSweeper]

So the zombies are on PED's? Great news (and comes with a automatic 50-game suspension according to Major League Baseball). We should see some home run records fall this season.

Good, I was getting tired of them chasing me back to the Colony. :D

[Bakkie-Pleur]

Really great episode, could not sit still listening to it. Great suspense, really comes close to the first few episodes of season 1. Also it keeps amazing me that so much research (or KC really has a brain the size of wikipedia) has been done for this show... i wish they would do that more often on tv shows and movies..

Oh and lets not forget those cgi special effects, there aint no movie that has such great special effects! Everthing looks the way I would think it would be, and it looks great! Atleast in my brain it does :)

[Vlarken]

"There's nothing here but butt cream." That might be my favorite quote of the entire show.

[tskt4lent]

does any one know who, "William Issac Roberts" is ?

[pmchawk]

I liked the halo reference. That is, pre #4.

EDIT:


Oddly enough, I head it from someone in the military before that movie came out. I think it was in engineering school or from a Drill Sergeant. Anyway...

Back to the "attention" thing. As we get into the last season there will inevitably be people who get some things right and wrong, but eventually you'll all figure it out. I wouldn't use me as a guide whether someone is right or wrong by a like. :)
Can you say if anyone up to this point has gotten anything right that you've seen? Don't have to say who or what. Just curious if you've had any, "wow, am I being transparent..." moments.

[Cabbage Patch]

I think the scariest thing is how the evolution of the Little Ones is now copying characteristics of the characters on We're Alive. The one that died at Raydon Labs attacked in a fashion that seemed to be modeled on how Saul and Victor fought the Behemoth in 25-1, and it was described as having grown very wide, which was clearly an homage to SPC Anthony Robbins.

[pmchawk]

Replying to your post because it sparked this thought in me...

Dr. William I Roberts was a genius, predicted the Earth fighting back against humanity in a mass biological attack (the haze) and decided to try and adapt humanity to survive it rather than prevent it, as he deemed it impossible. He began testing these chemicals on humans to get them impervious to what he predicted would be the viral outbreak from Earth on humanity (The normal ones being caused by the haze, or bitten by that of a haze stricken individual). His tests resulted in several deaths, he was arrested, stripped of his credentials (no long Dr.) but he was driven mad by his passion and kept his theories going in prison, the only way to keep them forever, to tattoo himself. So he drew all his conclusions on his own skin, and when broke out he kicked his 'tests' into overdrive since the haze already had been globally emitted by mother nature (read: testing in Devil's workshop). Earth's virus to rid her of humanity was one of self-depreciation....causing us to each other. Dr. William I Roberts decided to counter act the spread by giving everyone a small amount of the virus (prevents the normals from spreading it to his subjects, much like an immunization except not 100% dead injection), thus the normals leave us alone, and he juiced up the vaccine so we remain species supreme on planet earth (Inklings/ADLOs). Honestly folks, he's here to help us.
Bulletproof monk meets the happening meets Dr M..something..

[Hoff4D]

I'm sure it was said in 39-1 forums (haven't had a chance to go back and review), but did anyone else notice in 39-1 they "smelled something" before being apparently ambushed, and the same thing here in 39-3? They haven't done much describing of the smell, just that they smell SOMEthing.

Michael: "March 1st, 2010: Our first big break, after months of searching we finally found something, or to be more accurate, something found us....."

Perhaps the Zeds are doing the same thing we are with KODI? We put out sweat jars, they put out.....drool jars?


It's likely that the zeds just leave a particular smell behind and that's what we're finding, as I don't know why they'd LURE us into Raydon to discover their secrets, but still.....mulling this one over

[Hoff4D]

I think the scariest thing is how the evolution of the Little Ones is now copying characteristics of the characters on We're Alive. The one that died at Raydon Labs attacked in a fashion that seemed to be modeled on how Saul and Victor fought the Behemoth in 25-1, and it was described as having grown very wide, which was clearly an homage to SPC Anthony Robbins.

Pod people. They're becoming us, just....super-us

[Witch_Doctor]

Quote Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
I think I want to fold too. For now at least. The surprises are too awesome anyway.
I have read exactly ZERO forums in the last 3 weeks, almost ready to come back and bounce awesome theories off you guys and you're gonna throw in the towel NOW?!.....ouch man, ouch

Yeah man, you're right. Not gonna panic, and I know where my towel is. 2763

[SmokeyZombified]

Because he so slow it obvious that he would be surrounded by the ladies, zombies. They like their meal with meat on the bone. :cool:

Touche my friend, touché

[UndeadSweeper]

I think the scariest thing is how the evolution of the Little Ones is now copying characteristics of the characters on We're Alive. The one that died at Raydon Labs attacked in a fashion that seemed to be modeled on how Saul and Victor fought the Behemoth in 25-1, and it was described as having grown very wide, which was clearly an homage to SPC Anthony Robbins.

I was think the same. Maybe we called these Robbie?

[HardKor]

Well damn, it looks like I went and caught the research bug.
I've been looking into myostatin and the first thing that comes up are articles and forum posts related to bodybuilding. Specifically all of this is related to inhibiting and/or blocking myostatin in order to promote muscle growth. There's also an abundance of supplements out there that claim to inhibit myostatin (though most of them appear to be either outright bogus or, at most, have a very minor effect).
Myostatin inhibition also appears to be something being explored to combat muscle atrophy from conditions like muscular dystrophy and cachexia (the severe weight and muscle loss suffered by people with AIDS, cancer, etc.)
So there seems to be a lot of research going on to inhibit myostatin (follistatin is one of the inhibitors being explored, by the way) but I can't seem to find any research revolving around promoting it. But I'm definitely starting to feel like finding a way to promote myostatin is going to be key in beating whatever Dr. Ink is up to.

The role of myostatin in muscle wasting. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177043/)

[7oddisdead]

Well...ill just drop this.http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Effect+of+thyroid+hormone+on+the+gene+expression+o f+myostatin+in+rat...-a0195919167

[Witch_Doctor]

As far as Ink's roll in the outbreak, Puck sums up my thoughts the best, "In the back of my head I was thinking this place had something to do with all, you know? But we're nowhere near ground zero."
I don't think that Ink is responsible for the outbreak; at least it seems unlikely that he would be such. The info we have says that it's geological and the special Zs are a product of other factors e.g. something at Raydon Labs and ground zero itself (Kalani's account states that strange creatures were coming from there.)

What gets me is, what does Bill 'Ink' know and when did he know it. At this point all sort of theories that I've read in the forums jump out all at once.

Is Ink some sort of mastermind creating the special zombies?
Is he an intelligent zombie with a trace of human decency who is actually trying to find a cure?
Did he know about or start the outbreak?
Is he part of a doomsday cult?
Are there more than one person that fits his description?
Is he even turned?

[UndeadSweeper]

Well damn, it looks like I went and caught the research bug.
I've been looking into myostatin and the first thing that comes up are articles and forum posts related to bodybuilding. Specifically all of this is related to inhibiting and/or blocking myostatin in order to promote muscle growth. There's also an abundance of supplements out there that claim to inhibit myostatin (though most of them appear to be either outright bogus or, at most, have a very minor effect).
Myostatin inhibition also appears to be something being explored to combat muscle atrophy from conditions like muscular dystrophy and cachexia (the severe weight and muscle loss suffered by people with AIDS, cancer, etc.)
So there seems to be a lot of research going on to inhibit myostatin (follistatin is one of the inhibitors being explored, by the way) but I can't seem to find any research revolving around promoting it. But I'm definitely starting to feel like finding a way to promote myostatin is going to be key in beating whatever Dr. Ink is up to.

The role of myostatin in muscle wasting. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177043/)

I noticed that everyone keep said that this use to cure this or cure that. Could the infected be people who have a cancer or similar illness? Now that I think about it, Kelly's nephew had something and was a quick turner. The reason why it spreading so easily is that Raydon is a pill company that Bill tamper with a batch that cause the outbreak. And the gases at Englewood could the result of the company trying to ridden of chemical as quick as possible but it when horrible wrong. The reason that some the zombie are dying is because of the tumors and cancer that gone out control.

[Grognaurd]

Well...ill just drop this.http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Effect+of+thyroid+hormone+on+the+gene+expression+o f+myostatin+in+rat...-a0195919167

Glad to have you back. I hope my crow feast did not contribute to it. I still think formic acid is important. Randy, most likely, spread some out on the floor. The soldiers open the cargo doors letting the smell out and guess who shows up to spring the trap?

Thyroid, eh? Ripping out the throat to eat the thyroid? :tinfoil:

[7oddisdead]

Glad to have you back. I hope my crow feast did not contribute to it. I still think formic acid is important. Randy, most likely, spread some out on the floor. The soldiers open the cargo doors letting the smell out and guess who shows up to spring the trap?

Thyroid, eh? Ripping out the throat to eat the thyroid? :tinfoil:

I'll continue with the csi stuff...any raydon/ink/g.zero talk I wanna stay away from. (at least in the chapter threads). And yea, I'll put together my forensic report tonight when I'm actually at a computer...but all this can be put together nicely...i think we have all the legit info we need to put a bow on this thing.

[nikvoodoo]

This was, in my opinion, the best scored entry in the WA canon. I felt the tension in my chest the whole episode.

Looks like my support of inklings was a better choice of advanced little ones since they aren't little anymore!

I had the absolute elation filled moment similar to when Harry Potter read the note from R.A.B. when they entered the office. I nearly giggled out loud like a school aged child on my train ride.

It's been a very very long while since I've truly cursed Kc for leaving such a wicked cliff hanger... But damn you!!

[Jeebogs]

I still think Randy is a good guy. Let's not forget, we still don't know Randy and Michael's history. Maybe Randy is leading Michael to evidence/the truth?

[Witch_Doctor]

So, Raydon Labs is in Vernon, California, just not of Bell and Bandini Blvd cuts right through it. "Turn left on Bandini..." Angel tells Saul as he drives to Cindy's apartment AKA The Tower on Z-day.
I was hoping that Downey Rd (mentioned as the placed on the small piece of paper.) would be in Inglewood.

2764

[Kc]

Can you say if anyone up to this point has gotten anything right that you've seen? Don't have to say who or what. Just curious if you've had any, "wow, am I being transparent..." moments.

There's been at least someone close to one fact at least once each episode, but then in the same post they can still be wrong about other things. No one is 100% right, but there are people that have something correct here and there, but it's never always the same person.

I'm actually glad to see that at least as we get closer to the end people are figuring out some things. That, to me, means that the answers actually make sense and aren't LOST. ;)

Can't go one post without a jab at them...pin:)

[Kc]

It's been a very very long while since I've truly cursed Kc for leaving such a wicked cliff hanger... But damn you!!

:flowerpot:

[Grognaurd]

Yea, Saul was so close with the flying Squid. Victor laughed at him and Saul backed off not realizing that the squid was actually Cthulhu.

[7oddisdead]

There's been at least someone close to one fact at least once each episode, but then in the same post they can still be wrong about other things. No one is 100% right, but there are people that have something correct here and there, but it's never always the same person.

I'm actually glad to see that at least as we get closer to the end people are figuring out some things. That, to me, means that the answers actually make sense and aren't LOST. ;)

Can't go one post without a jab at them...pin:)

I think I can speak for most of us in saying we don't actually want to be right 100%. Part of the fun, for me at least, is the research and creative thinking behind piecing the clues together. The closer we get to answers though, the less I want to post ideas....id rather sprinkle thoughts and have other members of the community put things together and get that "ah-HA! That's it!" moment...such a good feeling.

and are we really still on the LOST hate? Let it go man, let it go...;)

[7oddisdead]

Yea, Saul was so close with the flying Squid. Victor laughed at him and Saul backed off not realizing that the squid was actually Cthulhu.

cthulhu fh'tagn Ai!ai!

[Merlin1274]

I am wondering what the chemicals were all over the floor and if they ate the rubber tires on the truck or melted them. Cause I do not know what could eat rubber other then some hefty solvent but it would take something off the wall, maybe something that was generating a lot of heat cause it was reacting with each other but still. Most hefty chlorinated solvents like Dichloromethane (Methylene Chloride) will eat it but takes time. Used it before to remove seals off car parts.. Nitric might do it but ferrous metals would get attacked first. I do have some what of a back ground with this stuff. I have worked for a waste disposal company for 11 yrs. Still do and mainly do plastic recycling now. Still handle some Haz Mat.. Ran into all sorts of nasty when I went to do some on site lab packs and plant clean outs/closures... Its crazy how so really nasty shit is used to make every day items you use.

[Storm]

I had the absolute elation filled moment similar to when Harry Potter read the note from R.A.B. when they entered the office. I nearly giggled out loud like a school aged child on my train ride.
Well... I did giggle. Lol! Okay, maybe it was more the laugh of a madman, but still... Fortunately I was at my home, so nobody heard it.... Okay, I was on Skype too, but...
Ahh, never mind! ... Why have all the episodes from 39 made me so damned excited? Not fair, people think I'm mad.


Yea, Saul was so close with the flying Squid. Victor laughed at him and Saul backed off not realizing that the squid was actually Cthulhu.
Iæh! Iæh! Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fh'tagn!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxScTbIUvoA

[Jordan531]

does any one know who, "William Issac Roberts" is ?

Bill Roberts was the name of the serial killer from the DVR recording played by Lizzy in the original tower, wasn't it? William Isaac Roberts aka Bill Roberts?

Haven't been here to post in a loooong time, this episode had me pumped.

[turbo]

Correct Jordan!

This episode was great, lotta action, and I'll be honest, had the chills when I heard his name read in the office.

[Osiris]

I said he was behind it. Nik poo-pooed it.

[Arch_Will]

Hey everyone,

apologies again for not participating as much as id like to the last few weeks, however my time has been spent moving home, much like Hoff4D i see. Lol.

Only able to briefly look through forums on my phone whilst performing ones ablutions, but i digress.

fantastic episode. And excellent placement of all the growth hormones. Hmmm it was absolutely nothing to do with formic acid formaldehyde or form amine. Who'da thunk it?

i don't think it was Puck that said the rocket surgery comment, i think it was the other guy that was on the 50 cal right? Not 100%, i may need to relisten.

i believe our next chapter may depart from the Ateam here (Michael & co, exploring the wasteland. Trying to redeem themselves for a crime they did not commit, if you're in trouble and you need someone to call, better call Saul, i mean the A-team). (conversation trails off in to badly sung versions of iconic 80s Saturday morning tv shows) where was i? Oh yes... I think the next chapter we're in for the adventures of burt and riley. The post apocalyptic odd couple. A sitcom in the making.

now, to catch up on we're not dead..

[FunkyDung]

follistatin and keratin 18 on Google Scholar: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=follistatin+%22keratin+18%22&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C39
follistatin and keratin 18 on PubMed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=follistatin+%22keratin+18%22

somatropin and keratin 18 on Google Scholar: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=somatropin+%22keratin+18%22&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C39&as_sdtp=
somatropin and keratin 18 on PubMed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=somatropin+%22keratin+18%22

Hopefully those help someone with more time than I figure out a few things. :)

[EpiEpee]

Life has been keeping me rather busy too, but couldn't resist procrastinating some of the work to take a quick look at the follistatin info. It seems like follistatin could explain several of the features of the little ones. The one that Tanya autopsied had diminished secondary sex characteristics, and follistatin plays a role in suppressing FSH which is important for women to show the effects of puberty.

Follistatin also looks like it could be responsible, at least partially, for the tumor-riddled appearance that was mentioned. It's involved in cellular differentiation, and anytime you have a pathway where cellular growth or cellular differentiation is unchecked, you increase the risk for cancer. Also, since differentiation pathways would probably be more involved with high levels of follistatin, you would have lower-grade tumors. Lower-grade tumors don't generally metastasize as easily (exceptions always possible) which means it's not a perfect match for the "riddled" appearance. On the flip side, a lower grade generally means a better prognosis, so if the end goal is to find a cure, it may be possible to nip those sorts of tumor in the bud early in the changing process.

*tin foil hat* if you can cause a zombie cancer to go into remission, is it just a matter of time (5-10 years) before you start seeing recurrences??

Back to work for me!

[Vlarken]

That epic action music gives me the chills. It was played this episode when they're shooting the Inkling with the .50 cal, and in the season 3 finale when Michael and company fly in to the rescue of the Colony-folk. I thought it was awesome that it got played again for a suitably epic moment.

[Red Shirt]

2. Dr. William Issac Roberts: Alright! So Bill Roberts, the tattoo covered sociopath mentioned in chapter 2 and widely believe to be The One With the Markings, is a doctor/researchers at a pharmecutical company...wait WHAT? Footbutt hit this one on the nose, how many people covered in tattoos get hired as medical researchers? So unless this is another Bill Roberts we're talking about (maybe a relative, using his psychotic family member as a guinea pig?), I'm thinking the tattoos came after his arrest.
Also in the newscast back in chapter 2, Roberts was referred to as just Bill Roberts, and not Dr. William (or Bill) Roberts. So here's my guess, ol' Dr. Ink was cooking something nasty in his lab and got caught doing it. Ethics violations and police inquiries follow and pretty soon Dr. Ink is sitting in a jail cell slowly loosing his connection to reality. He rigs himself up a nice prison tattoo gun and start covering himself in signs and symbols related to his research (thinking back to the chapter 27 artwork). The victims' families that were mentioned in chapter 2, were the families of Dr. Ink's patients who probably came to him thinking they were taking part in some sort of drug trial and ended up as guinea pigs.


You see, the problem with running an illegal human clinical trial is that the rest of the medical community tends to frown on that... and they also tend to revoke your medical license too.

While still technically having a Ph.D., after losing his license, the news channels probably didn't want to give him the honorific of calling him a doctor. Also, continuously referring to him as "Doctor William I. Roberts" probably got repetitive... "Bill Roberts" or "Ink" would seem easier for news anchors to say and also easier for them to paint as sinister.

It's also possible that they weren't allowed to call him "Doctor" in news casts. The medical licensing board of California may have weighed in on that and made the request. (After all, we only heard one tiny segment of one news report.)


Ink has tatoos that cover him from head to toe. how many Pharmacutical companies do you know hire people with that many exposed tatoos?

Raydon Labs Dr. W I Roberts and Bill Roberts => Dr. Jekyl and Mr Hyde?

It might not be that far of a stretch of the imagination to think he might have been covering those tats with makeup (https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=706&q=covering+tattoos+with+makeup&oq=covering+tattoos+with+makeup&gs_l=img.3..0.592.592.0.1431.1.1.0.0.0.0.79.79.1.1 .0....0...1ac.1.31.img..0.1.79.HpM2RSo9yyw).


AADLO
Little Behemoths
MegaInklings
Inkstoise
Inkzard......alright, I'm done


This isn't even my final form... :D

Seriously though, here's the thing: Was obtaining these chemicals required for the continued growth of the Inklings OR is it for the next generation of TOWTM's horrors?

[HardKor]

You see, the problem with running an illegal human clinical trial is that the rest of the medical community tends to frown on that... and they also tend to revoke your medical license too.

While still technically having a Ph.D., after losing his license, the news channels probably didn't want to give him the honorific of calling him a doctor. Also, continuously referring to him as "Doctor William I. Roberts" probably got repetitive... "Bill Roberts" or "Ink" would seem easier for news anchors to say and also easier for them to paint as sinister.

It's also possible that they weren't allowed to call him "Doctor" in news casts. The medical licensing board of California may have weighed in on that and made the request. (After all, we only heard one tiny segment of one news report.)

Good catch there. That's actually what I was going for but I apparently forgot to actually, you know, say it.
I gotta lean toward the "he had his license revoked for unethical testing" idea. If he was still a licensed doctor at the time of the broadcast, the news media would have identified him as such. They're usually pretty insistent on that kind of thing. So if the broadcast just identified him as "Bill Roberts AKA 'Ink'" I think that's a pretty strong indication that he lost his medical license (assuming, of course, that Ink and Dr. William I. Roberts are the same person. )

[Tielurrdee]

I'm only on page 4 and I'm getting a kick out of people saying how many places would hire a guy covered in tattoos in a medical facility. Haha welcome to Cali folks especially LA county. So much more common then you think. Epically bc if you are intelligent and earn degrees that is the gateway to a medical job that you are seeking regardless mostly of your looks. Also this didn't seem like a very public facility.

[Z Sniper]

As member of Victor's Mucho Macho Fan Club, Victor can have easily got on this mission. Come on, he has lost weight and could got toe to toe with Number one.

Damn straight! I've become a master of decapitation with flying tortillas!

[Z Sniper]

Come on, Victor has the girl, the looks and the talent. Ha, behind mini-gun even Hope can kill a little one. But has Robbins look one straight in the eye and then stop it with a syringe. We talk about Chuck Norris stuff here.

Sniffle-sniffle,.....I LOVE YOU MAN! Now pass me the tissue.

[Z Sniper]

Obviously Robbins is far superior to Victor in every way. He's funnier, a better shot, more handsome than Victor and has killed multiple little ones with the mini gun. That said, I think it was hinted that Victor screwed something up during the four month time jump. In all, Robbins has never screwed up and is much more reliable *puffs chest out proudly*

No, no señor. Funnier?,...Strike One. Better Shot?,....Strike Two. If Victor had a mini gun,.....What Apocalypse?

Victor didn't screw ANYTHING up,...Michael's just ticked I hit on his girl.

[Storm]

I'm starting to think that Dr. W.I. Roberts isn't actually Ink. He could have been his father and got murdered in his office by Ink for some unknown reason... Hence the police tape. I don't think that we have both walking around as zombies.
"The whole family was devastated." What family? Did Ink kill his own family?
I don't know. A tattooed scientist sounds about as weird IMO, but meh...

[7oddisdead]

my important, science-y pants..i seem to have misplaced them. no? oh well, ill try this noise anyways.

so with this chapter we got yet another clue. yet another piece to the "science of zombie" puzzle.
follistatin

from the wiki

"Follistatin also known as activin-binding protein is a protein that in humans is encoded by the FST gene.[1][2] Follistatin is an autocrine glycoprotein that is expressed in nearly all tissues of higher animals.[2]

Its primary function is the binding and bioneutralization of members of the TGF-β superfamily, with a particular focus on activin, a paracrine hormone.

An earlier name for the same protein was FSH-suppressing protein (FSP). At the time of its initial isolation from follicular fluid, it was found to inhibit the anterior pituitary's secretion of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH)."

now, lets break down this statement.
im not touching the idea of autocrine glycoproteins..thats cellular level b.s. that I don't get paid to look at. we will however jump at the tgf-B superfamily.

from wiki:
"The transforming growth factor beta (TGF-β) superfamily is a large family of structurally related cell regulatory proteins that was named after its first member, TGF-β1, originally described in 1983.[2]

Many proteins have since been described as members of the TGF-β superfamily in a variety of species, including invertebrates as well as vertebrates and categorized into 23 distinct gene types that fall into four major subfamilies:[3][4][5]"

"Transforming growth factor-beta (TGF-beta)[6] is a multifunctional peptide that controls proliferation, differentiation and other functions in many cell types. TGF-beta-1 is a peptide of 112 amino acid residues derived by proteolytic cleavage from the C-terminal of a precursor protein. These proteins interact with a conserved family of cell surface serine/threonine-specific protein kinase receptors, and generate intracellular signals using a conserved family of proteins called SMADs. They play fundamental roles in the regulation of basic biological processes such as growth, development, tissue homeostasis and regulation of the immune system.[3]"

based on that..i followed the thought chain to the next sentence.

"Follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) is a hormone found in humans and other animals. It is synthesized and secreted by gonadotrophs of the anterior pituitary gland.[1] FSH regulates the development, growth, pubertal maturation, and reproductive processes of the body. FSH and luteinizing hormone (LH) act synergistically in reproduction."

and last, but not least

"A major organ of the endocrine system, the anterior pituitary, also called the adenohypophysis, is the glandular, anterior lobe that together with the posterior lobe, the (posterior pituitary) makes up the pituitary gland (hypophysis). The anterior pituitary regulates several physiological processes including stress, growth, reproduction and lactation.

Its regulatory functions are achieved through the secretion of various peptide hormones that act on target glands and organs including the adrenal glands, liver, bone, thyroid, and gonads. The anterior pituitary itself is regulated by the hypothalamus and by negative feedback from these targets.

Disorders of the anterior pituitary are generally classified by the of overproduction or underproduction of pituitary hormones. For example, an overproduction of prolactin can give rise to a pituitary adenoma (a benign tumour) called a prolactinoma. In hypopituitarism, the anterior pituitary underproduces one or more of the hormones; panhypopituitarism is the condition where the gland uniformly malfunctions and underproduces all of the hormones. Proper function of the anterior pituitary and of the organs it regulates can often be ascertained via blood tests that measure hormone levels."

all this is found simply by checking under the links within the main wiki on follistatin. now, lets take it one step further and introduce keratin. I found this one on the effects of follistatin on keratinocyte proliferation...from the same wiki. links under gene ontology

http://amigo.geneontology.org/cgi-bin/amigo/term_details?term=GO:0043616

"The multiplication or reproduction of keratinocytes, resulting in the expansion of a cell population. Keratinocytes are epidermal cells which synthesize keratin and undergo a characteristic change as they move upward from the basal layers of the epidermis to the cornified (horny) layer of the skin. "


so from all that gibberish(actually this stuff is starting to make sense, that's the sad part) I make a jump. a leap of faith if you will, to the thyroid.

"The thyroid gland or simply, the thyroid /ˈθaɪərɔɪd/, in vertebrate anatomy, is one of the largest endocrine glands. The thyroid gland is found in the neck, below the thyroid cartilage (which forms the laryngeal prominence, or "Adam's apple"). The thyroid gland controls how quickly the body uses energy, makes proteins, and controls how sensitive the body is to other hormones. It participates in these processes by producing thyroid hormones, the principal ones being triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine which can sometimes be referred to as tetraiodothyronine (T4). These hormones regulate the growth and rate of function of many other systems in the body. T3 and T4 are synthesized from iodine and tyrosine. The thyroid also produces calcitonin, which plays a role in calcium homeostasis.

Hormonal output from the thyroid is regulated by thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) produced by the anterior pituitary, which itself is regulated by thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) produced by the hypothalamus."

so basically the leap of faith im making here is the idea that the hypothalamus and pituitary are the initially affected parts of the body. those effects lead to the thyroid, which in turn leads to changes in the liver and kidneys. (likely kidney failure, as we discussed last chapter part) why failure? I don't really see how kidneys would be relevant for the biters. in fact, that could explain a LOT of things.
*see "pellagra"*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellagra

well, this is probly more than I wanted to ramble about anyways, so im stopping there. ill touch more on the effects of changes to the thyroid and his metabolic partners in crime in the future..we've got two weeks right?

have fun...or else.
todd out

[clem131]

I felt my heart pumping for the full second half of the episode. I think this might be the best episode so far.
Somebody mentioned it already, but if Ink tattoed himself with formulas pertaining to his research, that might mean our heroes will have to catch him alive not to risk damaging his skin.

[7oddisdead]

I am wondering what the chemicals were all over the floor and if they ate the rubber tires on the truck or melted them. Cause I do not know what could eat rubber other then some hefty solvent but it would take something off the wall, maybe something that was generating a lot of heat cause it was reacting with each other but still. Most hefty chlorinated solvents like Dichloromethane (Methylene Chloride) will eat it but takes time. Used it before to remove seals off car parts.. Nitric might do it but ferrous metals would get attacked first. I do have some what of a back ground with this stuff. I have worked for a waste disposal company for 11 yrs. Still do and mainly do plastic recycling now. Still handle some Haz Mat.. Ran into all sorts of nasty when I went to do some on site lab packs and plant clean outs/closures... Its crazy how so really nasty shit is used to make every day items you use.

this is a good point. I deal with chemicals(cleaning agents) on a daily basis. my first thoughts on this were alkaline chlorides. but the primary chemical that would have to mix with that to produce a stinky, yet not mustard gas-y smell/effect would be a VERY low level acid(think 50:1 or something). the chlorine COULD be enough to eat through the tires, along with a bit of disbelief suspension...but most any mix of chlorine and "insert other chemical here" would likely put Michael and co on their asses within seconds....that sort of thing is nothing for the fucking with.

a better question would be why would a pharma. company have vats of that stuff?

[Storm]

"The thyroid gland or simply, the thyroid /ˈθaɪərɔɪd/, in vertebrate anatomy, is one of the largest endocrine glands. The thyroid gland is found in the neck, below the thyroid cartilage (which forms the laryngeal prominence, or "Adam's apple").
Could this be why they go for the neck when attacking? To somehow damage or destroy that gland?

[7oddisdead]

Could this be why they go for the neck when attacking? To somehow damage or destroy that gland?

not why I went to the thyroid in the first place,but yea...does kinda fit with the theme, doesn't it??

[ZombieWildfire]

Oh and some other thoughtstreams:
why are there so many broken bottles of the products, and why are the labs so messed up. Has there been some sort of altercation between Randy and whoever resides in the labs? (Ink?)

Is the doping/ steroid use merely to bulk up the existing zombies, or some sort of a way to attempt to prolong their life/ energy as they have started dying off? Stanozolol is listed on wiki as being used: "Veterinarians may prescribe the drug to improve muscle growth, red blood cell production, increase bone density and stimulate the appetite of debilitated or weakened animals"

Oh, and the other item is Aranesp- this is darbopoetin, similar to epo. I'm finding myself forgiving We're Alive for the fact that this would normally be kept in a fridge!!

Hxx

[Witch_Doctor]

Was about to say that this could be that the Zs do this to make a kill and prevent the victim from becoming a zombie, but it seems that this chemical is used be Ink and is not naturally produced by Zombies, so the point is moot.

[Witch_Doctor]

So far, what I've gotten from all of the science is that the K-18 gives them tough skin and Ink dopes them to make them big and strong. Just following the trail.

[scbubba]

Got a chance to listen once yesterday evening. Wow! Blown away by this episode. The music and atmosphere were incredible. The suspense build up was great. I felt like stuff could happen at any moment and was prepared for a "jump scare" thing to happen.

But the way the encounter developed and played out was even better. Way to throw the curve ball, Kc!

Clues, clues, clues....

I can't really add anything to the chemical and biological discussions being had in here other than to say this, at least for me, strengthens my thought that some controlling agent is "improving" on nature's zombie design.

Quick brain dump:
- Dr William I Roberts is not Bill Roberts aka Ink. I'm thinking a father-son link.
- Either Dr Roberts or Bill have been making the special zombies using chemicals (biological or synthetic) to do things like toughen the skin and increase size and strength
- All the specials before the Little Ones were "failed" experiments. So far, the original Little Ones are "progressing nicely"

- Randy and "Zombie Maker" Roberts are in cahoots. Randy, the smart one, was on the courier mission because he could read (which means someone else has mastered writing), follow directions to a location, and figure out how to find specific things with big sciency names.

- Raydon and Ground Zero are not related. Ground Zero has to do with zombie origin. Raydon has to do with special zombies.

I also thing we are getting very close to the death (or living death) of a major named character in the story. I really thought it was gonna be Robbins (please don't do that, Kc!) when he got off the truck to save the piece of paper.

Please keep going on the theories and chemistry classes, y'all. This place is awesome! :D

[Grognaurd]

Biology is really about homeostasis. A big word that means trying to keep things the same. It takes some serious effort to break the equilibrium. For a pop-culture reference what we see at Raydon Labs is someone trying to make a super soldier serum. A cocktail of "steroids" blended just right to turn a toddler into Andre the Giant

2766

The "little one" in the middle is Arnold. Flanked by Wilt Chamberlain and Andre.

But why? Is it just science run a muck? What is the threat that needs to be countered by these constructs?

In old school biochemistry we would take a bunch of thyroid, pituitary, or whatever and put it in a blender and try to purify something out and put it back in the body to see what happened. Then we got to recombinant DNA where we could clone out a gene and make a whole bunch of the protein in the lab. But, the subject has to keep coming back for more injections and it is not contagious.

[Hoff4D]

You see, the problem with running an illegal human clinical trial is that the rest of the medical community tends to frown on that... and they also tend to revoke your medical license too.

While still technically having a Ph.D., after losing his license, the news channels probably didn't want to give him the honorific of calling him a doctor. Also, continuously referring to him as "Doctor William I. Roberts" probably got repetitive... "Bill Roberts" or "Ink" would seem easier for news anchors to say and also easier for them to paint as sinister.

It's also possible that they weren't allowed to call him "Doctor" in news casts. The medical licensing board of California may have weighed in on that and made the request. (After all, we only heard one tiny segment of one news report.)


That was my reaction, I posted that back a few pages somewhere, but yea, I think the 'multiple murders' lead to his revocation and him no longer being called doctor. He went more crazy in jail, and continued theorizing his tests, but to remember them, he tattooed himself. So the tattoos came later. I think it lines up

[ZombieWildfire]

, I think the 'multiple murders' lead to his revocation and him no longer being called doctor.

I'm not convinced by this argument- I think the media would be more than happy to jump on a juicy Dr-As-Serial-Killer story.

As a real-life example, look at Andrew Wakefield (he of the fraudulent MMR research). He's been entirely discredited, is no longer a Dr after being struck off due to multiple counts of abuse of learning disabled children, yet the press still insist on referring to him as "Dr".

Likewise with Harold Shipman. I would see the media jumping on the Dr thing with glee and reporting on it constantly.

[UndeadSweeper]

That was my reaction, I posted that back a few pages somewhere, but yea, I think the 'multiple murders' lead to his revocation and him no longer being called doctor. He went more crazy in jail, and continued theorizing his tests, but to remember them, he tattooed himself. So the tattoos came later. I think it lines up

Imagine if the tattoos are really the formulas to his experiments?

[pmchawk]

Perhaps Raydon may have been trying to find a cure or antidote for this but instead stumbled on things that make it worse. I believe the chemicals that mixed may have been what caused the gas haze at ground zero houses were burned down when Saul and Victor went there.

Interesting thought just occurred to me, what if ink is the one being controlled and is patent zero. And the one controlling ink is in the center of the haze where it is livable, and the haze is just a moat of un breathable gas ment to keep people and "them" out.

[Jordan531]

Could the tattooing have been done at the mental hospital where the tattoo gun was found?
I originally just thought that was used to tattoo the Little Ones or whomever became the Little Ones, but maybe that's where Ink got his tattoos. When they look at that slip of paper doesn't Michael say "some of these symbols look familiar"? Maybe he remembered them from TOWTM.

[zombie Danny]

Could the tattooing have been done at the mental hospital where the tattoo gun was found?
I originally just thought that was used to tattoo the Little Ones or whomever became the Little Ones, but maybe that's where Ink got his tattoos. When they look at that slip of paper doesn't Michael say "some of these symbols look familiar"? Maybe he remembered them from TOWTM.

maybe TOWTM Tat self then the little ones with same niddle.?

[alexcadtek]

This episode was awesome! Maybe this doctor was treating ink in that mental hospital, because they did say they where transporting him to a hospital. maybe this dodctor in the lab trated ink and ink did something to him thats why there is police tape all over.

[mr mint11]

great episode questions questions questions. The chemistry is gnarkey. I am looking forward to the next episode. :)

[Storm]

This episode was awesome! Maybe this doctor was treating ink in that mental hospital, because they did say they where transporting him to a hospital. maybe this dodctor in the lab trated ink and ink did something to him thats why there is police tape all over.


Look at the doctor's name and Ink's real name... Not saying they're not two different persons, I kinda believe that myself, but they might as well be one and the same guy... Just sayin'.

[zombie Danny]

Now 2 week wait.

[Gnex]

As far as Ink's roll in the outbreak, Puck sums up my thoughts the best, "In the back of my head I was thinking this place had something to do with all, you know? But we're nowhere near ground zero."
I don't think that Ink is responsible for the outbreak; at least it seems unlikely that he would be such. The info we have says that it's geological and the special Zs are a product of other factors e.g. something at Raydon Labs and ground zero itself (Kalani's account states that strange creatures were coming from there.)

What gets me is, what does Bill 'Ink' know and when did he know it. At this point all sort of theories that I've read in the forums jump out all at once.

Is Ink some sort of mastermind creating the special zombies?
Is he an intelligent zombie with a trace of human decency who is actually trying to find a cure?
Did he know about or start the outbreak?
Is he part of a doomsday cult?
Are there more than one person that fits his description?
Is he even turned?


New Here but this episode made me make an account and post something. I don't think anyone has said this yet so I will add this to the conversation.

As far as Raydon Labs being nowhere near ground zero. People do generally commute to work. It could very well be that Dr. Roberts was conducting experiments at his home.

It could also stand to reason that he created something(the virus) and also created a cure(knowing that he may one day be caught).

What if He has the cure inside him which is why the zombies don't attack him and why he didn't change???

Maybe the explosion at Ground Zero was a timed bomb that he set up knowing that he would be caught, once the bomb goes off everyone but him would turn into zombies and he would be free no matter where he was. Even if he was in jail or a straight jacket he can control the zombies so he would be able to get free.

Also, going with the Bill Roberts and Dr. Roberts are 2 different people theory...... Maybe Bill was smarter than his father but just put his talents to a bad use........ It could very well be that the Day Bill's insanity plea was accepted he told his father to do one last thing for him........ Go home and open this box or something........ The Father does this and BOOM!!! GROUND ZERO.

Anyways Great episode and I had to get in on the conversation, so I just jumped straight into the deep end!

[FunkyDung]

This is kind of random, but as I watched a show about dinosaurs with my kids a thought occurred to me. With respect to Ground Zero, the cracks in the ground, and Z-day, I have a question. Where are the La Brea Tar Pits in relation to the other locations in the story? Could something nasty be bubbling up there?

[7oddisdead]

This is kind of random, but as I watched a show about dinosaurs with my kids a thought occurred to me. With respect to Ground Zero, the cracks in the ground, and Z-day, I have a question. Where are the La Brea Tar Pits in relation to the other locations in the story? Could something nasty be bubbling up there?

not as random as you might think. I believe its been brought up before, and off the top of my head I don't recall the location...but it does fit in the story iirc.

[Kc]

This is kind of random, but as I watched a show about dinosaurs with my kids a thought occurred to me. With respect to Ground Zero, the cracks in the ground, and Z-day, I have a question. Where are the La Brea Tar Pits in relation to the other locations in the story? Could something nasty be bubbling up there?

https://plus.google.com/102700306169222670619/about?gl=us&hl=en

North of Inglewood, roughly 9 miles away.

[Grognaurd]

Fracking zombie pterodactyls!

[IamPaul]

AWESOME EPISODE! I love that we finally sort of know that Ink is Bill Roberts/Pinstripe Suit. I was thinking we would not get the identity of the I. in William I. Roberts. And the I. would be a nod to the fans. (I. standing for Ink.) Great episode. I think Kelly is going to know something about Mr. Roberts. And the reasoning for the police tape in his office is because he was under investigation for something involving the Zeds. Maybe the people that he 'killed' (mentioned in Chapter 2 part 3 I believe) were actually the first test subjects or first official Zeds.

[FunkyDung]

https://plus.google.com/102700306169222670619/about?gl=us&hl=en

North of Inglewood, roughly 9 miles away.

Thanks, KC. :)

Has there been much mention of the Newport-Inglewood fault line? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport-Inglewood_Fault

[poniesandzombies]

Perhaps Raydon may have been trying to find a cure or antidote for this but instead stumbled on things that make it worse. I believe the chemicals that mixed may have been what caused the gas haze at ground zero houses were burned down when Saul and Victor went there.

Interesting thought just occurred to me, what if ink is the one being controlled and is patent zero. And the one controlling ink is in the center of the haze where it is livable, and the haze is just a moat of un breathable gas ment to keep people and "them" out.

Skittles!!!! Dr Jeckl/Mr Hyde Skittles!!!! It could happen!!!

[Eviebae]

And the reasoning for the police tape in his office is because he was under investigation for something involving the Zeds. Maybe the people that he 'killed' (mentioned in Chapter 2 part 3 I believe) were actually the first test subjects or first official Zeds.

My point is that they usually take down the tape once the investigation is over. It's up to protect the scene from contamination. Since trials generally take awhile and he was sentenced that implied to me that the investigation was way, way over. They don't just use it when there's been a murder, so this tape could represent a later break in.

I don't remember them crossing tape to get into the office so whatever happened in the office happened after the rampant destruction there. So, maybe, he came back to the office after his escape or someone else broke in to get him what he needed.

It's a mystery--"Zombies He Wrote"

[7oddisdead]

It was the butler, in the library, with the lead pipe.

[Jordan531]

It was the zombie, in the alley, with the nomz.

[Unit]

My point is that they usually take down the tape once the investigation is over. It's up to protect the scene from contamination. Since trials generally take awhile and he was sentenced that implied to me that the investigation was way, way over. They don't just use it when there's been a murder, so this tape could represent a later break in.

I don't remember them crossing tape to get into the office so whatever happened in the office happened after the rampant destruction there. So, maybe, he came back to the office after his escape or someone else broke in to get him what he needed.

It's a mystery--"Zombies He Wrote"

This is what I was thinking too. Tape couldn't be from the trial because that would have long been over and done with by that time. The tape must have been from something that happened after or completely separate from the murders.

[Unit]

:tinfoil::tinfoil:
Thanks, KC. :)

Has there been much mention of the Newport-Inglewood fault line? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport-Inglewood_Fault

I think whatever happened at ground zero must either be radioactive, or something coming from underground like you mentioned from the fault line or the Brea tar pits or the like. There has been a lot of talk about pipes or cisterns bursting etc, but we are almost a year later. Any gases that would have leaked would have long since run out and the high winds that can sometimes kick up there would have blown away those gases a long time ago so there wouldn't have been anything left there to choke on.

I think I am leaning more to something like underground natural gases that have been reacting with natural chemicals in the body (maybe from vaccines like was mentioned on We're Not Dead, or maybe from just natural chemical).

The other reason I don't think it could have been from a pipe bursting or something is there were changes going on around the world, it would be a lot less feasible for them to burst all over the world unless there was a planned attack. If it was a planned attack, who were the attackers and wouldn't they have set up a safe haven where they might be the only survivors? If that were the case I think it is too late in the store line to introduce them now.

I am going with earthquake or the earth crust cracking for some reason etc. that releases some deep down gases that cause a chemical reaction in people all over the world causing the change :tinfoil:

I think the vials and chemicals at Raydon aren't the 'cause' for anything to do with the Zombies. I think that Dr. Roberts was working on something before the outbreak and that Ink knew about it. Perhaps he was a test subject of sorts or maybe its just something he read about in prison, who knows. Perhaps Ink was able to pull off a prison break while being transported from court to the Mental Hospital and went to Raydon, broke into the office and while making his escape from Raydon with notes or chemicals or whatever it was he was looking for he was turned in the street by the outbreak? Maybe he isn't a part of the source of the outbreak? Maybe he was a victim like all the others? Maybe something in his body kept him from 'fully turning' the same way Tanya and Saul haven't 'fully turned'? :tinfoil:

Just some crazy out loud thoughts, not sure I even buy that scenario, but worth considering

[Eviebae]

:tinfoil::tinfoil:

Maybe he was a victim like all the others? Maybe something in his body kept him from 'fully turning' the same way Tanya and Saul haven't 'fully turned'? :tinfoil:

Just some crazy out loud thoughts, not sure I even buy that scenario, but worth considering

I like that idea because now we have a ticking clock due S & T's potentially slow changing and I don't want either one of them to be zombies. There's such a mix of factors. Tanya was bitten, but Saul wasn't--the bullet scenario is doubtful. Plus Lizzie has interacted with Saul's *ahem* bodily fluids and not changed.

[Red Shirt]

A few more thoughts for the wall:

Jail tats... I don't disagree that some of them may have been self administered, but what about his back and the back of his head?

Kelly... Did she ever mention her field of specialty in law? Litigation? Family Practice? She said that she's pretty good at reading faces. Sounds like a good skill for a criminal prosecutor, do you think she might have been one? Even the District Attorney or Assistant District Attorney THAT PROSECUTED BILL ROBERTS?


Maybe the people that he 'killed' (mentioned in Chapter 2 part 3 I believe) were actually the first test subjects or first official Zeds.
Ive been thinking that for a while... that he was experimenting pre Z-Day, but failed because human biology couldn't support the radical changes he was trying to force. The chemicals in the Inglewood haze and the zombies on the other hand gave him what he needed to eventually succeed.


Has there been much mention of the Newport-Inglewood fault line? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport-Inglewood_Fault
I think I might have mentioned it back in one of my first posts. I say might, because looking up my "Archive" is omitting my first eight posts. THIS (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3188-Chapter-29-2-Beyond-Our-Walls-Part-2&p=39536#post39536) one you may find of interest though.


I think whatever happened at ground zero must either be radioactive, or something coming from underground like you mentioned from the fault line or the Brea tar pits or the like. There has been a lot of talk about pipes or cisterns bursting etc, but we are almost a year later. Any gases that would have leaked would have long since run out and the high winds that can sometimes kick up there would have blown away those gases a long time ago so there wouldn't have been anything left there to choke on.

Not necessarily... Yellowstone National Park (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_National_Park#Geology) as we know it, or rather the caldera that makes up Yellowstone, was formed in a super-eruption 640,000 years ago. To this day it is still "active" with hot springs, geysers and venting volcanic fumes.

I agree that something from below ground was the catalyst, but there is something or several somethings greater at play. Simultaneous global release for a start.

[Hoff4D]

This is kind of random, but as I watched a show about dinosaurs with my kids a thought occurred to me. With respect to Ground Zero, the cracks in the ground, and Z-day, I have a question. Where are the La Brea Tar Pits in relation to the other locations in the story? Could something nasty be bubbling up there?

See my signature? Welcome to the Jurassic Haze Crackpot Theory Club. We are few....but we are strong!

[FunkyDung]

I almost forgot to mention one of the first "meta" thoughts I had while listening to this episode:

"KC must have been pissing his pants laughing at all of us looking up stuff about formic acid, formaldehyde, and formalin."

[Hoff4D]

Fracking zombie pterodactyls!

This guy knows what's up

[Hoff4D]

AWESOME EPISODE! I love that we finally sort of know that Ink is Bill Roberts/Pinstripe Suit. I was thinking we would not get the identity of the I. in William I. Roberts. And the I. would be a nod to the fans. (I. standing for Ink.) Great episode. I think Kelly is going to know something about Mr. Roberts. And the reasoning for the police tape in his office is because he was under investigation for something involving the Zeds. Maybe the people that he 'killed' (mentioned in Chapter 2 part 3 I believe) were actually the first test subjects or first official Zeds.

Perhaps there were...hmm....TWELVE people 'mass' murdered?....maybe bodies were never found?.....:tinfoil:

[FunkyDung]

Perhaps there were...hmm....TWELVE people 'mass' murdered?....maybe bodies were never found?.....:tinfoil:

Have I already mentioned my loony hypothesis that the little ones are dark apostles for "antichrist" TOWTM? Or that Michael appears to be analogous to St. Michael the Archangel and/or the Messiah? :tinfoil:

[Hoff4D]

Have I already mentioned my loony hypothesis that the little ones are dark apostles for "antichrist" TOWTM? Or that Michael appears to be analogous to St. Michael the Archangel and/or the Messiah? :tinfoil:

I wasn't going biblical, but I like the analogy. I meant that the murders weren't really murders per se....'just' experiments. They are the (what we presume to be) 12 little ones. He had them hidden somewhere, and when the haze broke out, they began their evolution process and came to Ink's aid....something crazy along those lines

[FunkyDung]

I wasn't going biblical, but I like the analogy. I meant that the murders weren't really murders per se....'just' experiments. They are the (what we presume to be) 12 little ones. He had them hidden somewhere, and when the haze broke out, they began their evolution process and came to Ink's aid....something crazy along those lines

Ah. Gotcha. Well, how about this for industrial strength tin foil: Randy as anti-Judas to TOWTM as antichrist? *dramatic music*

[Unit]

Not necessarily... Yellowstone National Park (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_National_Park#Geology) as we know it, or rather the caldera that makes up Yellowstone, was formed in a super-eruption 640,000 years ago. To this day it is still "active" with hot springs, geysers and venting volcanic fumes.

I agree that something from below ground was the catalyst, but there is something or several somethings greater at play. Simultaneous global release for a start.

That is what I am saying, Yellowstone fumes and geysers are from the earth, not man made. If the haze from ground zero was coming from a ruptured man made pipe or something, those chemicals need to come from somewhere. After a year of leaking I doubt there would be any left. But coming from inside the earth like we have at Yellowstone or other active volcanos, it could be releasing gases indefinitely. That is why I don't think Raydon, or any other group, has anything to do with ground zero and I'm not sure ground zero has anything to do with the actual start of the outbreak. Perhaps it may even lead to human preservation. They did say not even the biters will go near it right? Maybe whatever is leaking at ground zero could be used agains the zombies?

[Storm]

Ah. Gotcha. Well, how about this for industrial strength tin foil: Randy as anti-Judas to TOWTM as antichrist? *dramatic music*
Yeah... And St. Michael kills Old Scratch
...
Even though it's probably not even close to be true, it's still interesting to draw parallels between WA and the bible... I mean, there are a few quite obvious ones... We even have a, literally, fallen Angel. :D

[7oddisdead]

A few more thoughts for the wall:

Jail tats... I don't disagree that some of them may have been self administered, but what about his back and the back of his head?

Kelly... Did she ever mention her field of specialty in law? Litigation? Family Practice? She said that she's pretty good at reading faces. Sounds like a good skill for a criminal prosecutor, do you think she might have been one? Even the District Attorney or Assistant District Attorney THAT PROSECUTED BILL ROBERTS?.

the problem I see with Kelly knowing anything about bill Roberts, or the case, or William Roberts is the fact that she knew nothing of raydon labs...that high profile of a case, she should know something. yea, its allllmost peculiar that she doesn't? isn't it?


See my signature? Welcome to the Jurassic Haze Crackpot Theory Club. We are few....but we are strong!

damn right, son.


I almost forgot to mention one of the first "meta" thoughts I had while listening to this episode:

"KC must have been pissing his pants laughing at all of us looking up stuff about formic acid, formaldehyde, and formalin."

ive had the formic acid stuff on here in some form In the crackpot thread for the better part of two years now, "baliff, escort this man out!" :D


Yeah... And St. Michael kills Old Scratch
...
Even though it's probably not even close to be true, it's still interesting to draw parallels between WA and the bible... I mean, there are a few quite obvious ones... We even have a, literally, fallen Angel. :D

theres a thread floating around here somewhere that goes into the mystical and biblical comparisons...I really don't know where it is or id link it here. I wanna say eviebae started it though, if that helps...good stuff there.

[bigsteve1911]

Hi everyone, my first post on the forum which I know should go in the introductions section but I just couldn't keep quiet about the latest episode! <br />
<br />
so here's my theory.... <br />
<br />
Dr Bill (Ink)...

[ZombieWildfire]

Even though it's probably not even close to be true, it's still interesting to draw parallels between WA and the bible... I mean, there are a few quite obvious ones... We even have a, literally, fallen Angel. :D

Jesus was a zombie, after all...

[Storm]

Jesus was a zombie, after all...
I guess Lazarus
- or what ever his name is in English - was too...
In that previously mentioned thread about biblical refs, I think someone posted a link to an article about zombies in the bible...
AHEM! Back on topic... I'd love to know that little one's number... I wanna add it to my list over dead inklings. :)

[Grognaurd]

Yeah... And St. Michael kills Old Scratch
...
Even though it's probably not even close to be true, it's still interesting to draw parallels between WA and the bible... I mean, there are a few quite obvious ones... We even have a, literally, fallen Angel. :D

William ISAAC Roberts

[Grognaurd]

the problem I see with Kelly knowing anything about bill Roberts, or the case, or William Roberts is the fact that she knew nothing of raydon labs...that high profile of a case, she should know something. yea, its allllmost peculiar that she doesn't? isn't?

.

The story could break either way, but would Kelly hold back now when so close to a break through? Seems really dangerous. However, could you name the profession of the father of ANY high profile murderer?

[7oddisdead]

A: speculation on "father"
B: police tape
C: it wouldn't make sense for her NOT to recognize the name. Guess we shall find out.

[scbubba]

The story could break either way, but would Kelly hold back now when so close to a break through? Seems really dangerous. However, could you name the profession of the father of ANY high profile murderer?

Re: Kelly - if she were on the prosecution team that convicted evil Mr Ink, then it's a good bet that she would know a whole lot of details about his personal life. I would expect that to include his father's name and occupation. Especially if Ink had done any sort of experimentation, etc on his victims... Just my $0.02 there....


William ISAAC Roberts

Thanks for bringing this up and earlier reminding me of Isaac's role as patriarch.

Not that I'm buying into the "Kc is going to bring everything back to the Bible" idea of where the show goes, but he does have a thing for meaningful names. And Isaac has pretty definite meaning in Jewish, Islam, and Christian religions.

Isaac had 2 sons, Jacob and Esau. Jacob was given a new name by God - Israel. Israel was the patriarch of God's chosen people, the Israelites. Israel had 12 sons - each becoming the head of one of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Isaac's other son, Esau, was the first born and should have been the more revered of the sons, as such. Two things happened. Esau basically gave away his birthright to his brother for a bowl of stew. Later, an aged and blind Isaac was tricked by Jacob into giving him the paternal blessing instead of Esau. Jacob did this by covering his arm with wool. This tricked Isaac into thinking it was Esau because Esau was known as a very hairy man.

So Isaac, father of 2 sons. One is a real hairy guy and the other had 12 sons who where to start the lineage of God's chosen people.

The rest is left as an exercise for the reader... :D

[skankyfish]

He was conducting experiments into {dont know what yet} and doing tests using chimps. These have 'changed' into the little ones due to the testing - hence the numbers on them, they are their id numbers from the lab!


I had this thought as well; generally laboratory animals might have some kind of identifying mark tattooed in an easily accessible place, like the inside of their ear. It seems reasonable to me that maybe Ink was experimenting on these people (who may or may not be Bill Roberts' serial killer victims?), and needed an easy way to tell them apart. We already know he's fond of tattoos...

[Witch_Doctor]

I thought this too when I first listened to Lizzy's account and then skittles saying that they moved funny. Long fingers...

[ZombieWildfire]

Something that I tried to post the other day, but it didn't seem to work.

Something struck me about the description of Raydon Labs right at the start of the episode. Michael seems to go to great lengths to describe it as a plain white building, with the only patches of colour being covered up graffiti. It seemed like a strange amount of description to me, and the covered up graffiti interests me- could there have been some sort of attack/ protest at the site? something relating to Bill Roberts/ the police tape, or something to do with the sort of testing that was going on in there (i'm thinking sort of similar to animal rights/ GMO protestors or something??)

In which case, maybe Kelly wasn't directly involved in the Bill Roberts case, but perhaps had some involvement in the trials of protesters?

[Grognaurd]

Do not forget that Isaac had an older brother. Ishmael. He would go on to father another great people. He was a great archer.

:tinfoil:

[scbubba]

Something that I tried to post the other day, but it didn't seem to work.

Something struck me about the description of Raydon Labs right at the start of the episode. Michael seems to go to great lengths to describe it as a plain white building, with the only patches of colour being covered up graffiti. It seemed like a strange amount of description to me, and the covered up graffiti interests me- could there have been some sort of attack/ protest at the site? something relating to Bill Roberts/ the police tape, or something to do with the sort of testing that was going on in there (i'm thinking sort of similar to animal rights/ GMO protestors or something??)

In which case, maybe Kelly wasn't directly involved in the Bill Roberts case, but perhaps had some involvement in the trials of protesters?

Honestly, I hadn't thought of the building description like that. I just assumed it was in a kinda bad part of LA with other industrial type buildings. Those types of areas often have less police presence and big flat white surfaces attract graffiti artists like moths to a flame...

[Witch_Doctor]

Something that I tried to post the other day, but it didn't seem to work.

Something struck me about the description of Raydon Labs right at the start of the episode. Michael seems to go to great lengths to describe it as a plain white building, with the only patches of colour being covered up graffiti. It seemed like a strange amount of description to me, and the covered up graffiti interests me- could there have been some sort of attack/ protest at the site? something relating to Bill Roberts/ the police tape, or something to do with the sort of testing that was going on in there (i'm thinking sort of similar to animal rights/ GMO protestors or something??)

In which case, maybe Kelly wasn't directly involved in the Bill Roberts case, but perhaps had some involvement in the trials of protesters?

Plain white building is the architectural version of a plain brown wrapper. Someone doesn't want to advertise what's inside. But the graffiti thing... Very good idea.

[Merlin1274]

Yep that is a good point with the Graffiti.. Did not think of the possibility of protesters. I was thinking on the same lines as scbubba.

[Hoff4D]

Re: Kelly - if she were on the prosecution team that convicted evil Mr Ink, then it's a good bet that she would know a whole lot of details about his personal life. I would expect that to include his father's name and occupation. Especially if Ink had done any sort of experimentation, etc on his victims... Just my $0.02 there....



Thanks for bringing this up and earlier reminding me of Isaac's role as patriarch.

Not that I'm buying into the "Kc is going to bring everything back to the Bible" idea of where the show goes, but he does have a thing for meaningful names. And Isaac has pretty definite meaning in Jewish, Islam, and Christian religions.

Isaac had 2 sons, Jacob and Esau. Jacob was given a new name by God - Israel. Israel was the patriarch of God's chosen people, the Israelites. Israel had 12 sons - each becoming the head of one of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Isaac's other son, Esau, was the first born and should have been the more revered of the sons, as such. Two things happened. Esau basically gave away his birthright to his brother for a bowl of stew. Later, an aged and blind Isaac was tricked by Jacob into giving him the paternal blessing instead of Esau. Jacob did this by covering his arm with wool. This tricked Isaac into thinking it was Esau because Esau was known as a very hairy man.

So Isaac, father of 2 sons. One is a real hairy guy and the other had 12 sons who where to start the lineage of God's chosen people.

The rest is left as an exercise for the reader... :D

I need a way to like 'favorite' this post so I can reference it later when all is revealed because.....damn.

[Hoff4D]

Something that I tried to post the other day, but it didn't seem to work.

Something struck me about the description of Raydon Labs right at the start of the episode. Michael seems to go to great lengths to describe it as a plain white building, with the only patches of colour being covered up graffiti. It seemed like a strange amount of description to me, and the covered up graffiti interests me- could there have been some sort of attack/ protest at the site? something relating to Bill Roberts/ the police tape, or something to do with the sort of testing that was going on in there (i'm thinking sort of similar to animal rights/ GMO protestors or something??)

In which case, maybe Kelly wasn't directly involved in the Bill Roberts case, but perhaps had some involvement in the trials of protesters?

This would help the 'police taped off for a year doesnt make sense' argument, in that if Raydon was COMPLETELY shut down due to PhD Ink testing and protested outside of until it WAS shut down. Or something along those lines

[Gnex]

Something that I tried to post the other day, but it didn't seem to work.

Something struck me about the description of Raydon Labs right at the start of the episode. Michael seems to go to great lengths to describe it as a plain white building, with the only patches of colour being covered up graffiti. It seemed like a strange amount of description to me, and the covered up graffiti interests me- could there have been some sort of attack/ protest at the site? something relating to Bill Roberts/ the police tape, or something to do with the sort of testing that was going on in there (i'm thinking sort of similar to animal rights/ GMO protestors or something??)

In which case, maybe Kelly wasn't directly involved in the Bill Roberts case, but perhaps had some involvement in the trials of protesters?

This would also help with the little ones being former animals theory.... Maybe the Graffiti was from animal rights protestors? Protesting the experiments going on inside the building?

[IamPaul]

My point is that they usually take down the tape once the investigation is over. It's up to protect the scene from contamination. Since trials generally take awhile and he was sentenced that implied to me that the investigation was way, way over. They don't just use it when there's been a murder, so this tape could represent a later break in.

I don't remember them crossing tape to get into the office so whatever happened in the office happened after the rampant destruction there. So, maybe, he came back to the office after his escape or someone else broke in to get him what he needed.

It's a mystery--"Zombies He Wrote"

Or possibly Radon Labs was still under investigation for something and Bill Roberts was just a piece of that?

[Unit]

This would help the 'police taped off for a year doesnt make sense' argument, in that if Raydon was COMPLETELY shut down due to PhD Ink testing and protested outside of until it WAS shut down. Or something along those lines

If Raydon was completely shut that long before I doubt it would sit untouched for a whole year. Also anything that wasn't taken into evidence would have probably been reclaimed and moved/sold by the company; so there wouldn't have been pallets of 'butt cream' in the warehouse and paperwork all over the place. Also there would have likely been a sign or police tape at the front entrance rather than just on the one office door.

I still agree there could have easily been a protest or something but my bet is that it would have happened at a much later date. I am not 100% convinced that Dr. William I. Roberts is the same as Ink but assuming it is, then perhaps a protest happened when details of Ink's trial became public in the media. But that would have been later after the arrest, investigation, long waiting period etc. So it may have only been days/weeks before Z-Day rather than a year.

[Unit]

And with that last post I moved out of Lurker status. YES! I am now Fresh Meat... not much of an improvement but I'll take it haha

[bigsteve1911]

Hi everyone, so now I'm back at my laptop so I can really go to town on my idea (s).... <br />
<br />
I'm sure I read in one my Z-books that Formaldehyde (sp?) damages healthy cells but preserves dead cells,...

[pmchawk]

Something popped into my head do to the contest. Someone will have to correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the effects of K18 or the "FO" one was harder nails? Isn't there something in nail polish that strengthens nails? Chloroform that Micheal made the 1st time was with nail polish and Lizzy was overly exposed to it. Crap.. Suddenly I lost my thoughts on where I was going exactly do to typing on a phone is slower then a keyboard. Hopefully that might trigger some idea for someone else.

[Red Shirt]

Something popped into my head do to the contest. Someone will have to correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the effects of K18 or the "FO" one was harder nails? Isn't there something in nail polish that strengthens nails? Chloroform that Micheal made the 1st time was with nail polish and Lizzy was overly exposed to it. Crap.. Suddenly I lost my thoughts on where I was going exactly do to typing on a phone is slower then a keyboard. Hopefully that might trigger some idea for someone else.

Nail Polish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_polish) is lacquer and can be used to protect the nail beds, several coats can strengthen the nails. Some varieties do have formulations that are intended to strengthen the nails and are marketed as such. The ingredient in Micheal's chloroform was nail polish remover or acetone. They are essentially the same thing except nail polish remover tends to have additives like moisturizers, dyes, fragrances and odor reducers. (Do note that there are some removers that are acetone free.)

Finger nails (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_%28anatomy%29) are made of Keratin... Stands to reason that part of the body changes during zombification, is the drastic strengthening of the fingernails. This further explains the part of the Devil's Workshop scene when Kalani and Riley discover they are walking on the litter of fingernail trimming and they are loudly crunchy.

"Ugh, was someone grooming a Great Dane in here?"

[Unit]

Trying to resurrect the Reptrivia area. Just created a new quiz that should go live soon. It is an easy one to get things started again but I will try to get a new one up each day. Go check it out!

[Storm]

Thanks for bringing this up and earlier reminding me of Isaac's role as patriarch.

Not that I'm buying into the "Kc is going to bring everything back to the Bible" idea of where the show goes, but he does have a thing for meaningful names. And Isaac has pretty definite meaning in Jewish, Islam, and Christian religions.

Isaac had 2 sons, Jacob and Esau. Jacob was given a new name by God - Israel. Israel was the patriarch of God's chosen people, the Israelites. Israel had 12 sons - each becoming the head of one of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Isaac's other son, Esau, was the first born and should have been the more revered of the sons, as such. Two things happened. Esau basically gave away his birthright to his brother for a bowl of stew. Later, an aged and blind Isaac was tricked by Jacob into giving him the paternal blessing instead of Esau. Jacob did this by covering his arm with wool. This tricked Isaac into thinking it was Esau because Esau was known as a very hairy man.

So Isaac, father of 2 sons. One is a real hairy guy and the other had 12 sons who where to start the lineage of God's chosen people.

The rest is left as an exercise for the reader... :D
Randy Roberts? ... Sounds kinda silly. :)
But yay, thanks for this. I hadn't even got around to googling Isaac. Definitely interesting. Just makes me even more sure about Dr. Roberts being the father of Ink. Not sure Randy is his brother, though... If that's what you tried to say.
Even though it might not be what Kc's been thinking I still find it interesting to find such parallels. :D
So... The inklings are both sons of Israel and homies of Jesus...

[bigsteve1911]

Oh - and I reckon Lizzy is going to have a zom-baby....

#justsayin

[scbubba]

Randy Roberts? ... Sounds kinda silly. :)
But yay, thanks for this. I hadn't even got around to googling Isaac. Definitely interesting. Just makes me even more sure about Dr. Roberts being the father of Ink. Not sure Randy is his brother, though... If that's what you tried to say.
Even though it might not be what Kc's been thinking I still find it interesting to find such parallels. :D
So... The inklings are both sons of Israel and homies of Jesus...

Well, if we take the parallel far enough, the Little Ones perhaps become the Pharisees and Michael Cross plays the role of Messiah and comes to set them straight. In the process, Cross gets killed but his death starts a new movement that eventually supplants the existing "order" with a new grassroots movement. Cross lives on in the pages of the several books and letters which are eventually reprinted and shared with everyone....

Nyah... it's been done....


tl:dr - Michael Cross isn't Jesus

[Footbutt]

Nail Polish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_polish) is lacquer and can be used to protect the nail beds, several coats can strengthen the nails. Some varieties do have formulations that are intended to strengthen the nails and are marketed as such. The ingredient in Micheal's chloroform was nail polish remover or acetone. They are essentially the same thing except nail polish remover tends to have additives like moisturizers, dyes, fragrances and odor reducers. (Do note that there are some removers that are acetone free.)



i just pictured a heavy-set zombie-woman with extensions in her hair, chewing gum loudly, and shaking her head back and forth as she's filing down the nails of some zombie clients.
"Gurl, these nails be looooong! Whatchu gonna do when they break and i ain't around to trim them no more, huh? Dat's right. You gonna have to go back to Mr. Ink, and we boaf know how he been trippin' lately."

[Footbutt]

Well, if we take the parallel far enough, the Little Ones perhaps become the Pharisees and Michael Cross plays the role of Messiah and comes to set them straight. In the process, Cross gets killed but his death starts a new movement that eventually supplants the existing "order" with a new grassroots movement. Cross lives on in the pages of the several books and letters which are eventually reprinted and shared with everyone....

Nyah... it's been done....


tl:dr - Michael Cross isn't Jesus

in the analogy, the Numbered Ones would be the 'offspring', 12 tribes of Israel, and Esau's (Randy's) group would be fighting against them. right?

i don't know, i'm still not sure of how the connection/non-connection is with Randy and Ink. They could be in cohoots, in a shaky alliance, of at war with each other. But according to Saul's observation: "They don't attack each other, do they?"

oh, how i'm REALLY excited for the 18th. honestly, i look forward to Mondays now.

[scbubba]

in the analogy, the Numbered Ones would be the 'offspring', 12 tribes of Israel, and Esau's (Randy's) group would be fighting against them. right?

Technically correct, but for the sake of the audio drama's length we may have to fast forward over most of the Old Testament...


i don't know, i'm still not sure of how the connection/non-connection is with Randy and Ink. They could be in cohoots, in a shaky alliance, of at war with each other. But according to Saul's observation: "They don't attack each other, do they?"

oh, how i'm REALLY excited for the 18th. honestly, i look forward to Mondays now.

How Randy and TOWTM relate to each other (or are related to each other maybe) is a big question. And then how Randy relates to Michael is out there too.

Does that mean we have some sort of connection between all three of them? Dang, LA is looking like a small town all of the sudden!

[Witch_Doctor]

William Isaac Roberts + Inglewood Haze


=


Isaac Haze

2768

That Ink is a Bad Mutha... (SHUT YO MOUTH!)
But I'm just talkin 'bout INK

He even has Little Ones.

[Footbutt]

Technically correct, but for the sake of the audio drama's length we may have to fast forward over most of the Old Testament...


you know, now you've got me thinking about other Biblical possibilities.
in Acts, Saul becomes Paul after being confronted by Christ. could WA-Saul be 'turning' into WA-Paul? eventually aiding those he was vehemently against?

dah! i'm not going to go down this path. too many possibilities/rabbit holes.

[Storm]

you know, now you've got me thinking about other Biblical possibilities.
in Acts, Saul becomes Paul after being confronted by Christ. could WA-Saul be 'turning' into WA-Paul? eventually aiding those he was vehemently against?

dah! i'm not going to go down this path. too many possibilities/rabbit holes.


Come on, you know you want to, dem rabbit holes are fun to get stuck in, man!

Well, if we take the parallel far enough, the Little Ones perhaps become the Pharisees and Michael Cross plays the role of Messiah and comes to set them straight. In the process, Cross gets killed but his death starts a new movement that eventually supplants the existing "order" with a new grassroots movement. Cross lives on in the pages of the several books and letters which are eventually reprinted and shared with everyone....

Nyah... it's been done....


tl:dr - Michael Cross isn't Jesus
*Nod-nods* Yup! That's why he wanted his homies to write journals, you know.
...I'm just waiting for Michael to invite his Irwin guys over for dinner, telling them that one of them will betray him...

[Grognaurd]

It is fun stuff. In the absence of information, all sorts of things can fit. Lol, most of which have nothing to do with what the author intended, but to quote Michael cross, it is what I am good at...

A translation for Isaac is to fall down laughing. So far, TOWTM's lines have been limited, but his most notable was to fall down and then start laughing when he finds Burt is out of rounds.

Isaac married Rebeka in the bible. In the Arena, there is a truly perverted marriage ceremony where TOWTM "marries" Samantha. So, what? The actress who plays Samantha is named Rebeka. Her last name is Roberts. Rebeka Roberts. William Isaac Roberts.

[Cabbage Patch]

This would help the 'police taped off for a year doesnt make sense' argument, in that if Raydon was COMPLETELY shut down due to PhD Ink testing and protested outside of until it WAS shut down. Or something along those lines

If Raydon was shut down why would the "smart one" that attacked Burt, Angel and Saul still have a Raydon ID clipped to its belt? Possibly a caretaker?

Or could there be another, secret Raydon facility somewhere? The place Michael and crew visited sounded more like a warehouse than either a pharmaceutical production facility or a laboratory.

[pmchawk]

If Raydon was shut down why would the "smart one" that attacked Burt, Angel and Saul still have a Raydon ID clipped to its belt? Possibly a caretaker?

Or could there be another, secret Raydon facility somewhere? The place Michael and crew visited sounded more like a warehouse than either a pharmaceutical production facility or a laboratory.
Not necessarily.
I work at a plant that makes enzymes. All because there is no mention of equipment to create pharmaceuticals doesn't mean it isn't there. For example, if you entered through our warehouse you would have a couple options. 1 direction is the offices another would lead you into the plant. If you were looking for info you would go to the offices because looking at equipment doesn't tell you what it makes.

[ZombieWildfire]

Here's how I imagine the Raydon Labs situation unfolded:

Either: some news of the sorts of experiments going on there gets out into the public domain
OR: some news of some connection to a hated serial killer (either Bill Roberts himself works there or Dr WI Roberts is family who has been performing some sort of experiments which triggered Bill's behaviour or are aimed to reverse it) gets out into the public domain

Angry mob of people protest at the lab. They graffiti the walls, there are some scuffles, that sort of thing. Raydon continues operating but goes into lockdown mode.

The protesting calms down, maybe some people are arrested etc... The graffiti is covered up.

Then, at some point, some incident occurs in Dr Robert's office. The whatever it is is locked into his office, and the police show up, seal off the area with police tape, and a stand-off occurs. The "something" breaks out of the office, and, using the technical phrase: All hell breaks loose. The police and other Raydon staff get attacked, bitten, some turn, some escape then turn then infect everyone else, and the rest is history.

[Gnex]

If Raydon was shut down why would the "smart one" that attacked Burt, Angel and Saul still have a Raydon ID clipped to its belt? Possibly a caretaker?

Or could there be another, secret Raydon facility somewhere? The place Michael and crew visited sounded more like a warehouse than either a pharmaceutical production facility or a laboratory.

Perhaps this could be where the Downey Rd clue will lead us??

[Unit]

i just pictured a heavy-set zombie-woman with extensions in her hair, chewing gum loudly, and shaking her head back and forth as she's filing down the nails of some zombie clients.
"Gurl, these nails be looooong! Whatchu gonna do when they break and i ain't around to trim them no more, huh? Dat's right. You gonna have to go back to Mr. Ink, and we boaf know how he been trippin' lately."

This has to be the funniest thing I've heard in a while :D Well played good sir

[Nex]

My simple explanantion for what is going on:

Keratin-18 is used as a marker of circulating tumour cells in the body. So, zombies are having increased rate of mutations resulting in tumours. Follistatin suppresses tumours, so their leader (W. I. Roberts, of course!) is supplying them with follistatin to reduce the rate of tumours.

It may also be possible that follistatin and zombie cancer is unrelated; and follistatin is used to increase muscle growth in zombies.

[Nex]

Pardon my spelling mistakes, typed it in hurry.

[Nex]

Methinks Bill Roberts had adult-onset SMA.

[Witch_Doctor]

Perhaps this could be where the Downey Rd clue will lead us??

They were in the office in Raydon Labs when they realize that Downey Rd is an address and Pucks asks 'to where?' Either Micheal or Robbins answers, 'to here.'
I saw that Downey Rd goes through the city of Vernon, which is where the Lab is located. So, I think that the Downey Rd paper is a set of directions to the lab for the Randy to follow (Because he can still read?)

At the safe house, when reviewing what they found with Carl, they determined that the piece of paper on the desk is a 'shopping list'. It lists items that were MISSING from the storage cabinets in Dr. Roberts' office.

It's the second set of written addresses found in W.A., for what it's worth. The first being found on the dead recently turned Z that Victor & Saul found in the rubble after the Tower fell.

What I find very fascinating is the leap in deduction that Micheal & co. make in assuming that they found something important involving the zombies. Zombies, in which the smartest, up to this point, have only been clever enough to duck when shot at, utter one-word sentences, and set Wile E. Coyote like traps by laying trackers on top of paper-covered holes in the ground. By stumbling onto a zombie carrying a bag of chemicals, they entertain the idea that the stammering, grunting, brutish, man eating, pants pooping Zs are doing something with the chemicals, even though, the normal people can't even pronounce the words on the labels.

Perhaps this is why Kelly sounded dubious when she said, 'Yeah, good luck with that." when the soldiers went to investigate Raydon Labs. She still holds the characters' in-story perspective of what's going on. Micheal, on the other hand, has jumped into the audience's perspective that something more sinister is afoot.

[scbubba]

Here's how I imagine the Raydon Labs situation unfolded:

Either: some news of the sorts of experiments going on there gets out into the public domain
OR: some news of some connection to a hated serial killer (either Bill Roberts himself works there or Dr WI Roberts is family who has been performing some sort of experiments which triggered Bill's behaviour or are aimed to reverse it) gets out into the public domain

Angry mob of people protest at the lab. They graffiti the walls, there are some scuffles, that sort of thing. Raydon continues operating but goes into lockdown mode.

The protesting calms down, maybe some people are arrested etc... The graffiti is covered up.

Then, at some point, some incident occurs in Dr Robert's office. The whatever it is is locked into his office, and the police show up, seal off the area with police tape, and a stand-off occurs. The "something" breaks out of the office, and, using the technical phrase: All hell breaks loose. The police and other Raydon staff get attacked, bitten, some turn, some escape then turn then infect everyone else, and the rest is history.

Quick thought on the still-in-place police tape:
During Ink's trail - right at the end - it was revealed that W.I. Roberts had some sort of connection to what Bill Roberts was doing (taking the tach that W.I. and Bill are different people here). Police go to investigate. They declare it a crime scene and put up the police tape. To prevent tampering before the crime scene unit can come, a separate padlock is put on the door to prevent any Raydon employees with a key from messing with stuff. This is Zday minus 1.

Fast forward almost a year, Randy has an address and a shipping list (reason currently unknown). R goes to Raydon Labs, gains entrance, finds office area, begins tossing the joint looking for the things on his list. Comes to W.I.R. office (random chance or he recognizes the name?), laughs at useless padlock as he rips the door off. R grabs what he wants, tosses it in a bag and heads out.

Later that day, Team Human Troopers show up at Raydon sniffing around. Team Zombie Troopers show up shortly after them.

Why were the Little Ones there? Did Randy tell TOWTM about his run in and the dropped bottles? Did TOWTM have some sort of surveillance on the place to know that Randy and/or Michael's team were there? Did the damn gun truck make enough noise to draw the attention of any zombie within half of LA so that Michael and Co were a breeze to follow? (Let's face it, the idea of being quiet seems to have gone out the window in Season 4)

Questions, questions, questions.... And only Kc with the answers...

Is it Monday yet? (No, the Monday after that...)

[Gnex]

Here's how I imagine the Raydon Labs situation unfolded:

Either: some news of the sorts of experiments going on there gets out into the public domain
OR: some news of some connection to a hated serial killer (either Bill Roberts himself works there or Dr WI Roberts is family who has been performing some sort of experiments which triggered Bill's behaviour or are aimed to reverse it) gets out into the public domain

Angry mob of people protest at the lab. They graffiti the walls, there are some scuffles, that sort of thing. Raydon continues operating but goes into lockdown mode.

The protesting calms down, maybe some people are arrested etc... The graffiti is covered up.

Then, at some point, some incident occurs in Dr Robert's office. The whatever it is is locked into his office, and the police show up, seal off the area with police tape, and a stand-off occurs. The "something" breaks out of the office, and, using the technical phrase: All hell breaks loose. The police and other Raydon staff get attacked, bitten, some turn, some escape then turn then infect everyone else, and the rest is history.

I'm thinking Bill Roberts was caught, convicted, etc, etc......

Now if you listen to the DVR recording it says that his insanity plee was accepted. Maybe the whole entire time he was locked up and whatnot he wasn't saying anything........... So Raydon Labs continued to operate like normal. Perhaps part of his plee being accepted was that he had to give up information. This information would have gotten to the authorities a few days before they made it public knowledge(the DVR recording).

This theory would allow Raydon Labs to stay operating the entire time, and then maybe 3-4 days before the Explosion the police showed up, kicked in the door to a locked office, and put up the police tape. If Raydon Labs was doing nothing wrong the whole time, and it was only William I Roberts that was doing things behind the scenes there would be no reason to shut down the whole company. This would also explain why the "smart one" would still have a Raydon Labs ID.

*** seems me and scbubba has very similar ideas at the same time...... scary! ***

[Witch_Doctor]

After watching the TiVo of the news broadcast, the survivors went looking through other apartments to see if there were any more like it. Nothing was mentioned of this again and both the tower and TiVo, have been reduced to ruble. BUT, Dunbar is a bigger tower and still standing. Follow me? For those who don't, there might be other DVRs in Dunbar with info on the trial. Maybe a trip to the court house so Kelly to get a look at some court records.

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm thinking Bill Roberts was caught, convicted, etc, etc......

Now if you listen to the DVR recording it says that his insanity plee was accepted. Maybe the whole entire time he was locked up and whatnot he wasn't saying anything........... So Raydon Labs continued to operate like normal. Perhaps part of his plee being accepted was that he had to give up information. This information would have gotten to the authorities a few days before they made it public knowledge(the DVR recording).

This theory would allow Raydon Labs to stay operating the entire time, and then maybe 3-4 days before the Explosion the police showed up, kicked in the door to a locked office, and put up the police tape. If Raydon Labs was doing nothing wrong the whole time, and it was only William I Roberts that was doing things behind the scenes there would be no reason to shut down the whole company. This would also explain why the "smart one" would still have a Raydon Labs ID.

Good, but the only problem is that Raydon Labs isn't fill with gases like Englewood. How would the "smart one" changed at the lab? CJ said even the turned avoid going toward the gases, nothing could live in it. Another question isn't the Randy raid of Raydon Labs recently?

[UndeadSweeper]

After watching the TiVo of the news broadcast, the survivors went looking through other apartments to see if there were any more like it. Nothing was mentioned of this again and both the tower and TiVo, have been reduced to ruble. BUT, Dunbar is a bigger tower and still standing. Follow me? For those who don't, there might be other DVRs in Dunbar with info on the trial. Maybe a trip to the court house so Kelly to get a look at some court records.

Odd, that no one can find a newspaper or something in written, right?

[scbubba]

Odd, that no one can find a newspaper or something in written, right?

But then, why would anyone of the characters be looking yet? :)

The characters haven't made any connections between these things YET. Robbins and Puck recognized something about the name William Roberts. Saul almost remembered something about the name Raydon Labs. Maybe we are getting close to having a few of these things that have been dangling out there come together as the characters start seeing what we, the omniscient listeners, have been seeing....

Then I bet somebody wants a newspaper or another DVR'ed news show.... ;)

[Footbutt]

What I find very fascinating is the leap in deduction that Micheal & co. make in assuming that they found something important involving the zombies. Zombies, in which the smartest, up to this point, have only been clever enough to duck when shot at, utter one-word sentences, and set Wile E. Coyote like traps by laying trackers on top of paper-covered holes in the ground. By stumbling onto a zombie carrying a bag of chemicals, they entertain the idea that the stammering, grunting, brutish, man eating, pants pooping Zs are doing something with the chemicals, even though, the normal people can't even pronounce the words on the labels.


"pants pooping" - why, oh why did it take me so long to think of the reason why the zombies smelled like poo was this simple fact? Gah! Everybody poops. Even TOWTM.

do Smart Ones crap their pants too? or do they have enough smarts not to shart?

[Witch_Doctor]

Odd, that no one can find a newspaper or something in written, right?

It probably hasn't occurred for them to look for one yet. The s.h.t.f. so quickly that I doubt anything went to print before the presses were stopped. They wouldn't likely look for anything on the day before while fighting for life & limb. But they might start looking at News Papers NOW. That just might be a better and more readily available source of info on INK, than the TiVo idea.
Someone should get KC to pass this on to Micheal.

[UndeadSweeper]

But then, why would anyone of the characters be looking yet? :)

The characters haven't made any connections between these things YET. Robbins and Puck recognized something about the name William Roberts. Saul almost remembered something about the name Raydon Labs. Maybe we are getting close to having a few of these things that have been dangling out there come together as the characters start seeing what we, the omniscient listeners, have been seeing....

Then I bet somebody wants a newspaper or another DVR'ed news show.... ;)

Just a bit odd, with all the runs, for food or ammo, no one pick up a newspaper or a mag with info on this. I would think even CJ would seen something in a newspapers article about Raydon Labs.

[UndeadSweeper]

It probably hasn't occurred for them to look for one yet. The s.h.t.f. so quickly that I doubt anything went to print before the presses were stopped. They wouldn't likely look for anything on the day before while fighting for life & limb. But they might start looking at News Papers NOW. That just might be a better and more readily available source of info on INK, than the TiVo idea.
Someone should get KC to pass this on to Micheal.

I was think at least the court case or Raydon would at least been in the paper for a while. Even a pic of Roberts.

[Gnex]

Good, but the only problem is that Raydon Labs isn't fill with gases like Englewood. How would the "smart one" changed at the lab? CJ said even the turned avoid going toward the gases, nothing could live in it. Another question isn't the Randy raid of Raydon Labs recently?

Since there are no gases around Raydon Labs the "smart one" would change there just like they change anywhere else. Unless I am confused about the location of Raydon Labs, but I thought it was outside the Haze area.

The major difference between my theory and scbubba's is Did the police kick in the door to William I Roberts locked Office and then put up police tape(and then when Randy showed up he just walked in) Or did the police search the office, padlock the door and put up tape(and then Randy used super zombie strength to bust the door open)

Generally police tape is not that hard to bypass, you just lift it up and move under it.

Either way I think I am leaning to the Bill Roberts and William I Roberts are two different people and Bill Roberts ratted out William towards the end of his trial.

[Gnex]

But then, why would anyone of the characters be looking yet? :)

The characters haven't made any connections between these things YET. Robbins and Puck recognized something about the name William Roberts. Saul almost remembered something about the name Raydon Labs. Maybe we are getting close to having a few of these things that have been dangling out there come together as the characters start seeing what we, the omniscient listeners, have been seeing....

Then I bet somebody wants a newspaper or another DVR'ed news show.... ;)

Also..... How far in the timeline are we since they watched that initial DVR recording in the tower???? I mean that was a long... long.... time ago. And I think somewhere between zombies trying to eat you, best friends dying, people trying to kill you, etc, etc...... you probably tend to forget a little 10 minute DVR recording........ Now that all the pieces are falling into place though, I'm sure the lightbulb will click on someone very very soon.

[bigsteve1911]

My simple explanantion for what is going on:

Keratin-18 is used as a marker of circulating tumour cells in the body. So, zombies are having increased rate of mutations resulting in tumours. Follistatin suppresses tumours, so their leader (W. I. Roberts, of course!) is supplying them with follistatin to reduce the rate of tumours.

It may also be possible that follistatin and zombie cancer is unrelated; and follistatin is used to increase muscle growth in zombies.

OK, I have to admit that although my monkey theory is flawless - this is VERY good.

#notworthy

[UndeadSweeper]

OK, I have to admit that although my monkey theory is flawless - this is VERY good.

#notworthy

Could the zombies be feeding on the human to "recover" Keratin-18? Since the living, naturally create it right?

[Unit]

Also..... How far in the timeline are we since they watched that initial DVR recording in the tower???? I mean that was a long... long.... time ago. And I think somewhere between zombies trying to eat you, best friends dying, people trying to kill you, etc, etc...... you probably tend to forget a little 10 minute DVR recording........ Now that all the pieces are falling into place though, I'm sure the lightbulb will click on someone very very soon.

Also at the time they were watching the DVR recording they weren't watching it for the trial info, they were watching the breaking news of the outbreak I believe. So yeah, a year later of all that action remembering some random background detail that they weren't even listening to, probably not. That part was for us the listeners. Now I need to go back and re-listen to that episode.

[scbubba]

I was think at least the court case or Raydon would at least been in the paper for a while. Even a pic of Roberts.

Well, the Bill Roberts story on the news was "breaking news" so it wouldn't be in the paper until the next day at the earliest. If the police went to Raydon Labs the day before, or the day of, Zday, then it might not have hit the papers yet (due to the lag in publishing newspapers in general).

Also, the story timeline for Chapter 39 episodes is mere hours between the run-in with Randy and the escape from Raydon Labs. They asked Kelly to do some looking in what was in CJ's library before they went. She wouldn't have any reason to check on Bill Roberts since she was looking for Raydon. And it ain't Google indexed, so she would be skimming stuff for content. Easy to miss stuff.

We have Saul at Dunbar that has info on Raydon Labs, but hasn't remembered it yet. We have a few people at Dunbar that heard about Bill/Ink from the DVR but they haven't heard the name William I Roberts yet (except Michael and it didn't ring a bell for him yet). I think we are building to some character "A ha!" moments that will give us more info.

So, there may be info about both Bill/William Roberts and Raydon Labs in Dunbar - it's just gonna take some time to find it. And they might need Burt to shed light on Raydon since he seemed to know something about it to be able to comment on the "Level 3" badge way back when.

Kc!!!!!!!!! (screamed like "Khaaaaannnnnn!!!!" in Capt Kirk fashion)

[Gnex]

Also, I don't know if anyone has said this yet or not. But just because we have William I Roberts and Bill Roberts does not strictly mean that they are Father/son...... This could also be Two Brothers.

Maybe Will and Bill Roberts were both very smart. Will did the schooling and got the PhD, while his brother decided to educate himself and go down a darker path.

[Gnex]

Why did they have to Fast Foward the DVR Recording........ WHY!?!?!?!!!! :mad:

[7oddisdead]

I'd like to point out the the DVR recording says "the family itself" not the families...just relistened a half dozen times to be sure I'm not crazy.

[Witch_Doctor]

I was think at least the court case or Raydon would at least been in the paper for a while. Even a pic of Roberts.

Yeah but even now, they still haven't made the connection. They're still trying to figure out why the guy's name sounds familiar. In fact even if they do remember who he was it may take some time to realize that his story would be in the most recent newspaper articles, that are probably still in the paper racks. Does anyone remember what was in the newspapers on the morning of September 11, 2001? I know what was on the front page on the 12th. FYI, I checked my 9-11-01 paper and saw and article about Andrea Yates. Does that name sound familiar? If 9-11 started World War Three, would anyone think about Andrea Yates?

[Gnex]

The biggest problem I see..... Is we are probably looking at 5 weeks before we know anything more about this.....:squint:

I have a very strong feeling that Chapter 40 is going to tell us what Burt and Riley have been up to this whole time!

[Witch_Doctor]

Yeah, you're probably right.

[Unit]

Agreed. And to be honest I am almost more interested in finding out what's going on with that story line than I am in finding out about the good Dr. Right now.

[Red Shirt]

And they might need Burt to shed light on Raydon since he seemed to know something about it to be able to comment on the "Level 3" badge way back when.

What if it turns out they need a badge to access a high security facility and wind up going back to the roof of Locked 'n' Loaded for it?


FYI, I checked my 9-11-01 paper and saw and article about Andrea Yates. Does that name sound familiar?

She was that missing girl that a Congressman was the suspect for... I think.


Something else I want to throw out there. Relevant here I think, but a hop into the way back machine to Ch. 11 2/3 @ 6:00, Kalani's Tower De-Brief:
"They came back with some weird stuff from there... never really made it to the center."

What weird stuff? Was he referring to the "sickness" or some kind of physical artifact? Property of Raydon Labs?

[Storm]

What if it turns out they need a badge to access a high security facility and wind up going back to the roof of Locked 'n' Loaded for it?



She was that missing girl that a Congressman was the suspect for... I think.


Something else I want to throw out there. Relevant here I think, but a hop into the way back machine to Ch. 11 2/3 @ 6:00, Kalani's Tower De-Brief:
"They came back with some weird stuff from there... never really made it to the center."

What weird stuff? Was he referring to the "sickness" or some kind of physical artifact? Property of Raydon Labs?
Yeah, and what's even in the center? :) But yeah, C40
might just start telling us about Burt and Riley.
...And has anyone else but me thought of this... We're already 25% through this season...

[7oddisdead]

What if it turns out they need a badge to access a high security facility and wind up going back to the roof of Locked 'n' Loaded for it?



She was that missing girl that a Congressman was the suspect for... I think.


Something else I want to throw out there. Relevant here I think, but a hop into the way back machine to Ch. 11 2/3 @ 6:00, Kalani's Tower De-Brief:
"They came back with some weird stuff from there... never really made it to the center."

What weird stuff? Was he referring to the "sickness" or some kind of physical artifact? Property of Raydon Labs?

well, the good news about whatever they found at g.zero is, its likely still at dunbar.
the andrea yates ? I took as rhetorical, but she was the woman suspected (at the time) of drowning her kids. I get what doc is saying, but the events of bill Roberts stuff did not happen before a major catastrophe like 9-11. reporting on the capture/trial/etc may not have been THAT big of a deal, but still...its something.
and I would think "raydon labs" only had the one facility in LA. though I see what your saying totally...that would be cool.


Yeah, and what's even in the center? :) But yeah, C40
might just start telling us about Burt and Riley.
...And has anyone else but me thought of this... We're already 25% through this season...

I have, and it suuuuuuuuucccckkkks. but im glad to start seeing some kind of closure to this story, sad to see it go...but payoff is awesome.




and a little something I dropped in the crackpot thread. but I found it too interesting not mention it in the legit thread.

http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/13/12/2850.full

maybe the cure idea isn't so crazy after all.

7id out

[ZombieWildfire]

...And has anyone else but me thought of this... We're already 25% through this season...

Yes! So I'm expecting the pieces to start falling into place thick and fast soon. fingers crossed anyway... All this speculation is so much fun, but my goodness its driving me crazy!

[7oddisdead]

Oh, and a little food for thought.

Dr William Issac Roberts.

Doctor Who Is Right....

:hsugh:

[Witch_Doctor]

Something else I want to throw out there. Relevant here I think, but a hop into the way back machine to Ch. 11 2/3 @ 6:00, Kalani's Tower De-Brief:
"They came back with some weird stuff from there... never really made it to the center."

What weird stuff? Was he referring to the "sickness" or some kind of physical artifact? Property of Raydon Labs?

When pressed, he describes the special zombies like the runners and jumpers.

[Witch_Doctor]

One of the labels read by Puck sounds like Aranesp. http://www.drugs.com/aranesp.html

[Witch_Doctor]

I'm not a doctor, but I play one on the We're Alive Forums. Soooooo, from a non-medical perspective, I'm gonna suspect that the things uncovered so far are used for muscle growth and treating cancers and tumors. In essence, using the black box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box) way of analyzing this, these things are used to do such and such; I just don't know how.

[skankyfish]

I'm not a doctor, but I am a medical scientist specialising in medicines information. The four compounds taken from Raydon read to me like a recipe for an athlete to dope with:

Somatotropin - human gorwth hormone. Used medically to promote growth in people with deficiencies, or other metabolic disorders; also used by body builders to build muscle and get hyooge.
Aranesp (darbepoeitin alfa) - used to increase the number of circulating red blood cells. Medically it's used to treat anaemia, in sport it's very like what Lance Armstrong used to dope for the Tour de France.
Stanozolol - an anabolic steroid, used to increase muscle mass. Beloved of body builders.
Follistatin isn't used widely as a drug, although there's gene therapy in development. Again, it would promote muscle growth and strength.

All of those things have already been covered I think, but it's worth saying that taken as a whole, this is basically a bodybuilding stack. Someone taking all of these would likely be big, mean, tough, and have pretty great endurance. Sound familiar?

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm not a doctor, but ... I got nothing.

[scbubba]

I'm not a doctor, but I am a medical scientist specialising in medicines information. The four compounds taken from Raydon read to me like a recipe for an athlete to dope with:

Somatotropin - human gorwth hormone. Used medically to promote growth in people with deficiencies, or other metabolic disorders; also used by body builders to build muscle and get hyooge.
Aranesp (darbepoeitin alfa) - used to increase the number of circulating red blood cells. Medically it's used to treat anaemia, in sport it's very like what Lance Armstrong used to dope for the Tour de France.
Stanozolol - an anabolic steroid, used to increase muscle mass. Beloved of body builders.
Follistatin isn't used widely as a drug, although there's gene therapy in development. Again, it would promote muscle growth and strength.

All of those things have already been covered I think, but it's worth saying that taken as a whole, this is basically a bodybuilding stack. Someone taking all of these would likely be big, mean, tough, and have pretty great endurance. Sound familiar?

Good stuff skankyfish!

I don't have the medical background for it but I was suspecting Raydon (of at least Dr William I Roberts) of being in the Performance Enhancement Drug (PED) business - that's why I voted for Barry Bonds to be the new spokesperson for Raydon Labs over in the Radio Commercial Contest thread....

[scbubba]

I'd like to point out the the DVR recording says "the family itself" not the families...just relistened a half dozen times to be sure I'm not crazy.

After seeing you post this (and running across a similar post from cupcakezombie in another thread) I went back and listened to that part again (Ch 2-3, ~20:55). Having the William I Roberts name now could make that snippet more meaningful.

I originally thought it said "the families" and assumed it meant the families of Ink's victims were upset that he was going to a hospital and not Death Row or the Big House (does Cali have a death penalty?) But the phrasing of "the family itself" could be talking about the Roberts family being upset about more than darling Billy being convicted (albeit on an insanity plea). Perhaps something else happend to a Roberts' family member.... Perhaps it was William I Roberts involvement in something....

My DVR has a button that let's me jump ahead 30 seconds at a time. I'm assuming the Tivo/DVR Lizzy found has the same thing and that is what she is using. A lot can be said in 30 seconds....

Then this post by whenallisdark registered

I've listened to the the entire WA around 4 times now and one thing hangs me up everytime.

As they are watching the news report about Bill Roberts, they watch it at normal speed. The news reporter says he is being transferred to a mental health facility. a few seconds later they start to skip through the report to get to the bambies (that's what my 5 year old daughter used to call zombies).

Just as they stop fast forwarding, the reporter says again "he is currently being transferred to a mental health facility"

It would be a bit odd for the news reporter to say the same thing twice for the one story.

Was there someone else involved with Bill Roberts or someone else who was being transferred to the same hospital?

Any thoughts?

I assumed it was a repetition of the previous line from earlier (at least 60 seconds because of 2 jumps by Lizzy?) about the transport because sometimes news reporters give a wrap up line at the end to summarize key details. But what if there were 2 members of the Roberts family involved in something and both were being transported.... :tinfoil:

Hmmmm, I guess I shoulda posted this over in crackpot theories instead....

[skankyfish]

Good stuff skankyfish!

I don't have the medical background for it but I was suspecting Raydon (of at least Dr William I Roberts) of being in the Performance Enhancement Drug (PED) business -

Interesting... As soon as I heard all the names my brain went "PEDs!", but it never occurred to me to wonder why Raydon had that combination of stuff just lying around. It'd be interesting to know what else they kept in stock. Were they kept as PEDs? Were they working on muscle wasting diseases? Were they trying to make super-buff superhumans? Or were they just a wholesaler that had all sorts of stuff? As an aside, bodybuilders use Preparation H too - they rub it all over themselves an hour or so before competition to try and look as ripped as possible. :meh:

[scbubba]

Interesting... As soon as I heard all the names my brain went "PEDs!", but it never occurred to me to wonder why Raydon had that combination of stuff just lying around. It'd be interesting to know what else they kept in stock. Were they kept as PEDs? Were they working on muscle wasting diseases? Were they trying to make super-buff superhumans? Or were they just a wholesaler that had all sorts of stuff? As an aside, bodybuilders use Preparation H too - they rub it all over themselves an hour or so before competition to try and look as ripped as possible. :meh:

I'll just leave this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Laboratory_Co-operative

[Storm]

Could the first drug Puck takes a Picture of in the office be this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megestrol_acetate

[Gnex]

I'm not a doctor, but I am a medical scientist specialising in medicines information. The four compounds taken from Raydon read to me like a recipe for an athlete to dope with:

Somatotropin - human gorwth hormone. Used medically to promote growth in people with deficiencies, or other metabolic disorders; also used by body builders to build muscle and get hyooge.
Aranesp (darbepoeitin alfa) - used to increase the number of circulating red blood cells. Medically it's used to treat anaemia, in sport it's very like what Lance Armstrong used to dope for the Tour de France.
Stanozolol - an anabolic steroid, used to increase muscle mass. Beloved of body builders.
Follistatin isn't used widely as a drug, although there's gene therapy in development. Again, it would promote muscle growth and strength.

All of those things have already been covered I think, but it's worth saying that taken as a whole, this is basically a bodybuilding stack. Someone taking all of these would likely be big, mean, tough, and have pretty great endurance. Sound familiar?

Also not sure if it has been mentioned yet. But when Puck first starts calling out drugs he says something along the lines of "Meg... Meges..."???

That led me to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megestrol which would further support the massive steroid theory.

Edit *** Storm beats me as I am typing it up! Good call!!! ***

[scbubba]

Could the first drug Puck takes a Picture of in the office be this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megestrol_acetate

Interesting that one of the things mentioned is that is "capable of decreasing circulating androgen and estrogen concentrations to castrate levels in both sexes and significantly lowering the expression of the androgen receptor (AR) and the estrogen receptor (ER) in the body".

Makes me think back to Tanya's autopsy on the Little One at Fort Irwin where she mentioned that development of sexual characteristics were not there (or diminished). That could be because the original Little One donors/hosts/people/??? where children. But this agent could have repressed sexual/reproductive development as the Little Ones "grew up"...

Good find!