Chapter 39-3 Chemical Reactions

[skankyfish]

Argh, I replied but quoted Storm's post, and the link in it got me mdoerated. i'm too impatient to wait to point out that the really interesting part of that to me is

"When given in relatively high doses, it can substantially increase appetite in most individuals, even those with advanced cancer, and is often used to boost appetite and induce weight gain in patients with cancer or HIV/AIDS-associated cachexia."

The ability to decrease circulating androgens is actually counter-intuitive, as it will antagonise the stanozolol. Maybe different cocktails for different special zombies? Megestrol acetate for the Little Ones and stanozolol for the Behemoths?

[Storm]

Interesting that one of the things mentioned is that is "capable of decreasing circulating androgen and estrogen concentrations to castrate levels in both sexes and significantly lowering the expression of the androgen receptor (AR) and the estrogen receptor (ER) in the body".

Makes me think back to Tanya's autopsy on the Little One at Fort Irwin where she mentioned that development of sexual characteristics were not there (or diminished). That could be because the original Little One donors/hosts/people/??? where children. But this agent could have repressed sexual/reproductive development as the Little Ones "grew up"...

Good find!

Definitely interesting, though I paid more attention to this part:
"Megestrol acetate is used mainly as an appetite stimulant in a variety of conditions and as an antineoplastic agent in the treatment of breast, endometrial, and prostate cancers.[7] When given in relatively high doses, it can substantially increase appetite in most individuals, even those with advanced cancer, and is often used to boost appetite and induce weight gain in patients with cancer or HIV/AIDS-associated cachexia."
...Explains their hunger, I guess... Didn't Skittles say that some of the Zets only wanted to eat?

[Witch_Doctor]

So, what happens when they don't get their fix?

[Witch_Doctor]

Didn't Skittles say that some of the Zets only wanted to eat?

Yes, but he was talking about the normal ones.

But here's another question. If the Inklings need this stuff to be strong then how are they able to turn others into Inklings? Are they able to synthesize this stuff on their own? Are they able to transmit the ability to synthesize these drugs to others? What about the extra arteries?

[Idgetman]

Not sure if anyone else theorized this but I am going to say Dr. William Issac Wallace is Skittles. Just a wild guess. He was the first one I thought of when they said his name.

[Gnex]

Not sure if anyone else theorized this but I am going to say Dr. William Issac Wallace is Skittles. Just a wild guess. He was the first one I thought of when they said his name.

Skittles name is Duncan tho. He was at Dunbar.

[ZombieWildfire]

As an aside, bodybuilders use Preparation H too - they rub it all over themselves an hour or so before competition to try and look as ripped as possible. :meh:

And, of course, a more common alternative use of Preparation H is to promote healing of tattoos. Now who do we know who has a load of tattoos, and who might be tattooing others.....

[thisonegirl]

After seeing you post this (and running across a similar post from cupcakezombie in another thread) I went back and listened to that part again (Ch 2-3, ~20:55). Having the William I Roberts name now could make that snippet more meaningful.

I originally thought it said "the families" and assumed it meant the families of Ink's victims were upset that he was going to a hospital and not Death Row or the Big House (does Cali have a death penalty?) But the phrasing of "the family itself" could be talking about the Roberts family being upset about more than darling Billy being convicted (albeit on an insanity plea). Perhaps something else happend to a Roberts' family member.... Perhaps it was William I Roberts involvement in something....

My DVR has a button that let's me jump ahead 30 seconds at a time. I'm assuming the Tivo/DVR Lizzy found has the same thing and that is what she is using. A lot can be said in 30 seconds....

Then this post by whenallisdark registered


I assumed it was a repetition of the previous line from earlier (at least 60 seconds because of 2 jumps by Lizzy?) about the transport because sometimes news reporters give a wrap up line at the end to summarize key details. But what if there were 2 members of the Roberts family involved in something and both were being transported.... :tinfoil:

Hmmmm, I guess I shoulda posted this over in crackpot theories instead....



First off, Oh, goodness how I missed you guys and this forum! It's like putting on an old baggy, comfortable sweater... Nevermind, I'm not sure I want all the "crackpotness" that near my skin and heart. Still missed you, though!

Second, yes, California does indeed have a death row, but we don't use it much. It was suspended in 1972 and reinstated in 1977 and there have been 13 executions as of then.

Third, I think it's time, and scbubba, congrats. You were the cause for me to... :tinfoil:
After all this time, yes that is what made me finally put on the hat...

Fourth, I guess the third point kinda nullifies part of the first point since the "crackpotness" rubbed off anyway. So... *group hug* Really missed you guys!

[Unit]

I am going back and re-listening to the series from the beginning and just listened to the part with the DVR talking about Ink's trial. They mention the homicides happened outside of Santa Monica, but if I am not mistaken Raydon is more in south east LA. So I am thinking either
- The homicides have nothing to do with Raydon or testing (My personal vote)
- Or if the two are related, some of the info we received from the recon and photos at Raydon will lead us to another location near Santa Monica that will result in a human testing facility discovery

[7oddisdead]

I am going back and re-listening to the series from the beginning and just listened to the part with the DVR talking about Ink's trial. They mention the homicides happened outside of Santa Monica, but if I am not mistaken Raydon is more in south east LA. So I am thinking either
- The homicides have nothing to do with Raydon or testing (My personal vote)
- Or if the two are related, some of the info we received from the recon and photos at Raydon will lead us to another location near Santa Monica that will result in a human testing facility discovery

did they say the homicides happned outside Santa Monica....or ink was apprehended outside santa Monica?

I heard the latter, which makes more sense, logistically

[Unit]

The exact words from the news report are "Ink was convicted of multiple homicides outside of Santa Monica last May. He is currently being transferred to a mental health facility..."

It makes no mention of his arrest but specifically mentions the homicides

[7oddisdead]

Fair enough, carry on...

I'll say this though, just because the murders took place around Santa monica, that does not mean he couldn't have commuted to raydon for the day-job. But I'm sure everyone realizes that. Puzzles within puzzles...

[Unit]

True true. I still am starting to lean towards the idea that Raydon has nothing to do with the actual outbreak, but is just something they are using to build up their army of little ones and behemoths and such. I think something at Ground Zero has to do with the outbreak and will also have something to do with eliminating/curing the virus or whatever it is.

But I usually get proven wrong when sticking to a theory so I'll just plan on KC making me look like a fool :-)

[7oddisdead]

Agreed, I think most of us consider raydon as the "questionable physical therapist" of the story... I'm hashing out a grand scheme as far as outbreak/ground zero is concerned, but it Seems everyone is going in similar directions

[Storm]

Agreed, I think most of us consider raydon as the "questionable physical therapist" of the story... I'm hashing out a grand scheme as far as outbreak/ground zero is concerned, but it Seems everyone is going in similar directions

Question is if Kc is going in that direction too. :D

[7oddisdead]

Said it before, saying it again....i hope not.

I want to be wrong. The wrong-er (???) I am, the more we can discuss and rethink things. That's the fun part

[FunkyDung]

I had some random thoughts about the plot in general. I'm too lazy to find a better thread, so I'll dump my brain out here.

1. We keep saying "virus", since that's the typical disease vector in zombie stories. We already know this isn't a typical zombie story, so why not consider bacteria?
2. Following from #1, what if they're extremophile bacteria (or archea), perhaps released from the cracks at Ground Zero?
3. Speaking of the cracks, I wonder if what makes the air unbreathable is methane (natural source, not sewer pipes). Could Saul have a symbiotic organism in him that makes him able to breathe methane? (Yeah, that one's a stretch.)
4. KC has made a point of not calling Ink and TOWTM the same person in interviews. What if one of them is a copycat killer that also turned on Z-day?
5. What if Tanya and/or Saul just has cancer or cryptogenic cirrhosis, not the zombie disease, which could elevate K18 levels?

[Robzombie]

I had some random thoughts about the plot in general. I'm too lazy to find a better thread, so I'll dump my brain out here.

1. We keep saying "virus", since that's the typical disease vector in zombie stories. We already know this isn't a typical zombie story, so why not consider bacteria?
2. Following from #1, what if they're extremophile bacteria (or archea), perhaps released from the cracks at Ground Zero?
3. Speaking of the cracks, I wonder if what makes the air unbreathable is methane (natural source, not sewer pipes). Could Saul have a symbiotic organism in him that makes him able to breathe methane? (Yeah, that one's a stretch.)
4. KC has made a point of not calling Ink and TOWTM the same person in interviews. What if one of them is a copycat killer that also turned on Z-day?
5. What if Tanya and/or Saul just has cancer or cryptogenic cirrhosis, not the zombie disease, which could elevate K18 levels?

Just my thoughts on your points...as valid or invalid as anyone else's...

1) my initial thought is that as far as I know most bacteria(??) can be killed off much more easily than a virus. They are a different animal and can be killed off by an anti-bacterial..generally. I think a virus is much harder to kill and an anti-viral treatment needs to be much more specific to the virus. Edit: also, doesnt a virus need a host cell to replicate and spread, whereas a bacteria can just duplicate itself. Bio class was so long ago.

2) idfk

3) you can smell methane (right?) and it wouldn't cause the reaction that it did to Victor. Are you maybe thinking about H2S? A heavy, odourless toxic gas. That also would not cause the reaction we saw. He would get dizzy, pass-out, then die without smelling anything.

4) With the latest episodes I'm thinking they may be separate people. If you look at my idea about Bill Roberts in the Theories (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4941-Why-do-we-think-INK-is-a-big-part-of-this-Z-day) thread, I'm thinking there is some relationship between the William Isaac Roberts the chemist/biochemist and the tattooed murderer...but it could still be the same person...but then maybe not, lol, nothing is definitive but I think we have more to consider now about Mr Roberts with these last episodes. An inked up scientist at radon labs...maybe.

5) the facts behind that, I have no idea...story wise, I doubt it. I think it would suck if its like..."oh wait, we're not slow turners we just have cancer"...nah.

[thisonegirl]

3) you can smell methane (right?) and it wouldn't cause the reaction that it did to Victor. Are you maybe thinking about H2S? A heavy, odourless toxic gas. That also would not cause the reaction we saw. He would get dizzy, pass-out, then die without smelling anything.

Actually, no, you can't smell methane if it is natural. Methane has a compound (methyl mercaptan) added to it before it is used commercially.

[7oddisdead]

Actually, no, you can't smell methane if it is natural. Methane has a compound (methyl mercaptan) added to it before it is used commercially.

someone correct me If im wrong here, but wasn't that the primary reason miners would take small birds down into mines with them back in the day? if the little birdy dies its time to GTFO.

[dontkillburt]

What if it turns out they need a badge to access a high security facility and wind up going back to the roof of Locked 'n' Loaded for it?



She was that missing girl that a Congressman was the suspect for... I think.


Something else I want to throw out there. Relevant here I think, but a hop into the way back machine to Ch. 11 2/3 @ 6:00, Kalani's Tower De-Brief:
"They came back with some weird stuff from there... never really made it to the center."

What weird stuff? Was he referring to the "sickness" or some kind of physical artifact? Property of Raydon Labs?

I believe the person you are referring to might have been Chandra Levy and the Congressman was Gary Condit.

In any event, legal battles (even those don't involve celebrities) draw major news attention in Los Angeles press. Charles Manson & Richard Ramirez are just a couple names I can remember from my early days. Haven't forgotten those though. William I. (or Bill) Roberts and the 12 or so he was accused of murdering (or experimenting on) should pretty much make him a household name with our band of survivors.

I'm still missing the part that might tie Raydon Labs with the origin of the zombie apocalypse. Here we are now four seasons deep into zombies ruling the earth, and yet we are no closer to knowing what caused the outbreak than we did the day it happened. As a matter fact, we are all now having to thumb back to those pages. Curse you KC!

[LiamKerrington]

Is it allready too late to join the theory-frail? I mean ... 28 pages??????? Is there anything that hasn't been mentioned yet ... ;)

Keep going ... If I had some more time to spare, I would read through all of it and enjoy your contributions to the forum. +1 For everyone.

[Grognaurd]

someone correct me If im wrong here, but wasn't that the primary reason miners would take small birds down into mines with them back in the day? if the little birdy dies its time to GTFO.

Yea, canary in a coal mine. They have a higher metabolism.

[Grognaurd]

Raydon Labs

I think the reason Saul and Kelly have such a difficult time remembering, is I do not think that it has been written down "yet". That stuff happens before the journal policy was implemented. It was also narrated by Michael even though he was not there. He says something like reconstructed events, I think. I gotta go back and listen. He also says something similar in the events that happen to the recon team in Season 3.

They might not give the level of detail of a level 3 ID from Raydon Labs on first pass, and then when the super-journal is collated, Michael could insert hyper detail because he is trying to make sense f it all.

Ask yourself, five million dead in LA and no national news. You are asked to write down what happened when some zombies tried to eat you and you find a dude with a .50 cal, claymores and shoots and kills like 12 guys in five seconds and you write down Level 3 ID from Raydon labs because you are so sure that is important?

[Unit]

In any event, legal battles (even those don't involve celebrities) draw major news attention in Los Angeles press. Charles Manson & Richard Ramirez are just a couple names I can remember from my early days. Haven't forgotten those though. William I. (or Bill) Roberts and the 12 or so he was accused of murdering (or experimenting on) should pretty much make him a household name with our band of survivors.

I have read this mentioned a few times now. Where did we get the notion that he killed 12 people? (or close to that number)

From what we are told on the DVR all we know is that he was convicted of 'multiple homicides' with no mention of how many multiple is. Could be 2, could be 200. But I think people have somehow mixed together the little ones with numbes with the people Ink was convicted of killing. That very well may turn out to be true, but there is no mention or proof of that right now, at least not that I can recall, maybe I'm just forgetting something.




I'm still missing the part that might tie Raydon Labs with the origin of the zombie apocalypse. Here we are now four seasons deep into zombies ruling the earth, and yet we are no closer to knowing what caused the outbreak than we did the day it happened. As a matter fact, we are all now having to thumb back to those pages. Curse you KC!

This part I agree with, I am actually not convinced Raydon has anything to do with the origin of the outbreak either. I think they come into play because they provide chemicals that are helping to build the army of special/stronger zombies, but aren't really involved with the cause of it. That is the theory I am currently hanging my hat on anyway :squint:

[Footbutt]

I This part I agree with, I am actually not convinced Raydon has anything to do with the origin of the outbreak either. I think they come into play because they provide chemicals that are helping to build the army of special/stronger zombies, but aren't really involved with the cause of it. That is the theory I am currently hanging my hat on anyway :squint:

i agree. what's going to be fun is following the next series with Saul and Tanya as they possibly explore Ground Zero. They HAVE to find something out, right? i think it might also be a non-commissioned mission, though does CJ even care about what the cause of Z-day is anymore?

man, this Chapter was so good.

[Unit]

It seems like she is so wrapped up with the colony right now that I doubt she is very concerned with it. I think in the back of her mind there might be some curiosity and resuming her investigation...

[skankyfish]

I had this thought as well; generally laboratory animals might have some kind of identifying mark tattooed in an easily accessible place, like the inside of their ear. It seems reasonable to me that maybe Ink was experimenting on these people (who may or may not be Bill Roberts' serial killer victims?), and needed an easy way to tell them apart. We already know he's fond of tattoos...

Changing my own opinion on this one - Lizzy says in chapter 21-2 that the tattoo on the little one's arm is fresh, so they can't be pre- Z-day test subjects because we're at least 3-4 months along the line by that time. A few episodes earlier Skittles says that they're really little, so I think I subscribe to the theory that they're children. Maybe very young when Z-day hit, or even still in utero? Do we know what happens to the baby if a pregnant woman is turned? Their growth would be totally extraordinary if that's the case, but then the Behemoths have gotten very big very quickly too, apparently with the help of the Raydon labs cocktail.

The suspense is starting to really get to me now :S

[Footbutt]

Changing my own opinion on this one - Lizzy says in chapter 21-2 that the tattoo on the little one's arm is fresh, so they can't be pre- Z-day test subjects because we're at least 3-4 months along the line by that time. A few episodes earlier Skittles says that they're really little, so I think I subscribe to the theory that they're children. Maybe very young when Z-day hit, or even still in utero? Do we know what happens to the baby if a pregnant woman is turned? Their growth would be totally extraordinary if that's the case, but then the Behemoths have gotten very big very quickly too, apparently with the help of the Raydon labs cocktail.

The suspense is starting to really get to me now :S

yeah, and remember that Tanya's first autopsy of a Numbered One at Fort Irwin showed that it was a "young" woman, possibly a pre-teen/adolescent. so are these "Little Ones" going through some intense growth hormone treatment that rapidly expands their physical traits and leaves the 'natural developmental' process in the dust?

i wonder if Ink is BREWING an army...

[UndeadSweeper]

yeah, and remember that Tanya's first autopsy of a Numbered One at Fort Irwin showed that it was a "young" woman, possibly a pre-teen/adolescent. so are these "Little Ones" going through some intense growth hormone treatment that rapidly expands their physical traits and leaves the 'natural developmental' process in the dust?

i wonder if Ink is BREWING an army...

Then there has to be a weakness then, right? Zombies can't move once it get to too cold. Behemoths die from tumors after a while. What would the ALDO have? I think the tied in with Raydon Labs isn't that it ground zero more like the place they were getting supplies to keep the zombie army alive.

[ZombieWildfire]

Then there has to be a weakness then, right? Zombies can't move once it get to too cold. Behemoths die from tumors after a while. What would the ALDO have? I think the tied in with Raydon Labs isn't that it ground zero more like the place they were getting supplies to keep the zombie army alive.

Could the ALDO weakness be that they're infertile? given the underdeveloped sex organs, or the cocktail or hormone/ steroid drugs?

[Unit]

Interesting topic. Do zombies breed or can they only turn other humans.

If they can only turn, eventually they wipe out the human race and then slowly starve to death. Are the smart ones like Ink and Randy smart enough to know this? Is that why they have stopped attacking the colony? They have a stockpile of bodies to munch on already and they are leaving the colony alone for now to expand. Leaving it as a grocery store or animal pen type setup. When they run out of bodies in the pantry to feast on they will hit the colony again to stock up?

What if they can breed? Is that where the little ones come from? Are the numbers their 'birth' order? With all the drastic physical changes that Tanya has found in their bodies, perhaps they have an extremely short gestation period. I think Tanya notes diminished sexual organs, but not eliminated, they are still there.

I doubt that part will come into play in our story here but it is something curious to think about. If the biters can't breed at all then it is in their best interest not to wipe out the human race entirely because by doing so they wipe themselves out as well.

[UndeadSweeper]

Interesting topic. Do zombies breed or can they only turn other humans.

If they can only turn, eventually they wipe out the human race and then slowly starve to death. Are the smart ones like Ink and Randy smart enough to know this? Is that why they have stopped attacking the colony? They have a stockpile of bodies to munch on already and they are leaving the colony alone for now to expand. Leaving it as a grocery store or animal pen type setup. When they run out of bodies in the pantry to feast on they will hit the colony again to stock up?

What if they can breed? Is that where the little ones come from? Are the numbers their 'birth' order? With all the drastic physical changes that Tanya has found in their bodies, perhaps they have an extremely short gestation period. I think Tanya notes diminished sexual organs, but not eliminated, they are still there.

I doubt that part will come into play in our story here but it is something curious to think about. If the biters can't breed at all then it is in their best interest not to wipe out the human race entirely because by doing so they wipe themselves out as well.

I'm thinking that why they when with the heavy guns to Boulder. Their pantry was running low. But they didn't except the nuke hit and then when after the base at full force.

[Gnex]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned previously, or maybe in another completely different thread...... but, I think there is a difference between Dr. William Roberts and Bill Roberts.

The reason I believe this is because I just listened to Chapter 11 R&R...... When Ink(Dr. William Roberts/Bill Roberts/guy in the suit/guy with tattoos/whoever) attacks the tower.......

The problem that I had is that everyone keeps making Dr. William Roberts out to be this mad scientist or evil genius that is "cooking up" zombie creations and sending them out into the world........ but, in this episode he does not seem to possess these traits.......

#1 - They call down the code to him, and it takes multiple tries before he can get the code entered correctly.
#2 - Most of his "talking" seems to be him just repeating things that someone else has recently said.

He does seem to be genetically altered(being able to take 2 shots in the chest and get back up) but I just don't understand how you are mixing 5 chemicals and creating all the "zombie cocktails" and whatnot if you can't enter a passcode on a door.

I am leaning toward the theory that there is Bill Roberts(Ink, Guy in the suit, guy with the tattoos) and then there is the Mastermind(Dr. William Roberts, Guy creating zombies, Zombie Baby Daddy)

I think Bill Roberts has been running around controlling the zombies and cause all types of havoc, while Dr. Roberts is sitting back somewhere is his evil lair/laboratory creating new zombies and stuff...

[Unit]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned previously, or maybe in another completely different thread...... but, I think there is a difference between Dr. William Roberts and Bill Roberts.

The reason I believe this is because I just listened to Chapter 11 R&R...... When Ink(Dr. William Roberts/Bill Roberts/guy in the suit/guy with tattoos/whoever) attacks the tower.......

The problem that I had is that everyone keeps making Dr. William Roberts out to be this mad scientist or evil genius that is "cooking up" zombie creations and sending them out into the world........ but, in this episode he does not seem to possess these traits.......

#1 - They call down the code to him, and it takes multiple tries before he can get the code entered correctly.
#2 - Most of his "talking" seems to be him just repeating things that someone else has recently said.

He does seem to be genetically altered(being able to take 2 shots in the chest and get back up) but I just don't understand how you are mixing 5 chemicals and creating all the "zombie cocktails" and whatnot if you can't enter a passcode on a door.

I am leaning toward the theory that there is Bill Roberts(Ink, Guy in the suit, guy with the tattoos) and then there is the Mastermind(Dr. William Roberts, Guy creating zombies, Zombie Baby Daddy)

I think Bill Roberts has been running around controlling the zombies and cause all types of havoc, while Dr. Roberts is sitting back somewhere is his evil lair/laboratory creating new zombies and stuff...


I agree with some of this. I don't think Bill Roberts and Dr. William Roberts are the same person. But Ink does say something to the effect of 'Leave Her' about CJ when attacking the first tower, which was not a repeat of what someone else already said. So he must have some power of original dialog, even if it is limited. (which brings me to a different point that I'll elaborate on below).

I also don't think that Dr. William or Bill have anything to do with the cause of the outbreak. I think ink was fortunate somehow to retain so much of his faculties after the outbreak, but I see him as a victim of the outbreak like the rest. I still believe something at ground zero is the cause of the outbreak, and I think Raydon and Dr. William's office were raided because they contained chemicals that enabled stronger zombies.

I am starting to like the father/son theory. Perhaps Dr William had a son, William Jr, aka Bill. Dr. William died with the rest of humanity during the outbreak. Bill, having retained some of his smarts remembers what dear ol Dad did for a living and went to his office to obtain some chemicals to modify his troops.

I think having smarts and the ability to mix some liquids or tattoo a large number on an arm is much easier than the dexterity required to hit some small keys on a pinpad. Heck look at Michael, in the first chapter when he goes to the reserve base to meet up with Angel and Saul he has a hard time with the pinpad and gets his code wrong the first time, and he was normal.

[Grognaurd]

Well, just to confuse the issue, the one in the hospital caught an arrow out of the air and someone opened the gates to the colony and that is more complicated than just a four digit code.

[7oddisdead]

And to further confuse the topic in the other direction.

we armchair scientists need to remember, William Roberts, while called "paranoid" schizophrenic...still had a considerable amount of wits about him if/when he turned. That is if we can count on the "smarter in life" philosophy.

google brocas area a little and learn a few things about the language center of the brain. Likely info someone at a pharmaceutical company like raydon would retain. If TOWTM could alter biters to the point of "little ones"...how far out of reason is him altering himself to regain his cognitive functions?

[Gnex]

Well, just to confuse the issue, the one in the hospital caught an arrow out of the air and someone opened the gates to the colony and that is more complicated than just a four digit code.

I agree with this too, it seems like there are points in the story where TOWTM is extremely agile, quick, strong, etc... And then other points where he is not!

[Grognaurd]

And to amplify 7id, Ink was diagnosed that. If he tried to tell the authorities that the people he killed were zombies, he only did it in self defense because he saw them eat his golfing partner and that corpse gas erupted from nearby oil pump, well, let's just say that sounds pretty crazy.

[Grognaurd]

I agree with this too, it seems like there are points in the story where TOWTM is extremely agile, quick, strong, etc... And then other points where he is not!

Ah, but isn't he described as having a disfigured hand? Like where Burt may have shot him. I would have to relisten to be sure.

[7oddisdead]

And to amplify 7id, Ink was diagnosed that. If he tried to tell the authorities that the people he killed were zombies, he only did it in self defense because he saw them eat his golfing partner and that corpse gas erupted from nearby oil pump, well, let's just say that sounds pretty crazy.

it also sounds totally within the bounds of his diagnosis.
paranoid schizophrenia is a manageable form. Most people who have it are fully functional members of society, the schemes the diasese create in their brain are highly elaborate and not easy to discern fact from fiction. What grog says could easily be the case.

as could ALL THIS being bullshit and Michael & co are all in the ward with him.

[Grognaurd]

it also sounds totally within the bounds of his diagnosis.

as could ALL THIS being bullshit and Michael & co are all in the ward with him.

Ugh, I hope not. Then, Riley find Angel in the shower?

[7oddisdead]

Oh good gravy..... :)



I also hope not,of course...but that's the fun of this story. One COULD easily skew the way one interprets it and it would fit that line of thinking. Once we start introducing any sort of psychosis in any of our major characters, the question of what's real and what isn't is among the first to be asked(or should be)...

[Robzombie]

Well, just to confuse the issue, the one in the hospital caught an arrow out of the air and someone opened the gates to the colony and that is more complicated than just a four digit code.

With all due respect i would argue this point...just for the hell of it. Catching an arrow i think would fit somewhere in the brain where reflexes and instinct reside as oppposed to punching in a specific sequence of numbers on a key pad which i think would take way more cognitive ability, where after a couple tries he did manage to get it right.

[Unit]

With all due respect i would argue this point...just for the hell of it. Catching an arrow i think would fit somewhere in the brain where reflexes and instinct reside as oppposed to punching in a specific sequence of numbers on a key pad which i think would take way more cognitive ability, where after a couple tries he did manage to get it right.

I was thinking the exact same thing but figured I'd just let it be, but since it's already out there... ;-)

I'm a pretty big guy and I've got some big meat hooks. Trying to type on my phone or dial a number I hit wrong keys all the time. And like I mentioned, Michael messed up on a key pad getting onto the military base. I think it is completely reasonable that it might take a few tries to get it rightas a zombie if normal people even struggle with it from time to time.

[Red Shirt]

The problem that I had is that everyone keeps making Dr. William Roberts out to be this mad scientist or evil genius that is "cooking up" zombie creations and sending them out into the world........ but, in this episode he does not seem to possess these traits.......

#1 - They call down the code to him, and it takes multiple tries before he can get the code entered correctly.
#2 - Most of his "talking" seems to be him just repeating things that someone else has recently said.

Possibly, but consider people that are affected by any of the symptoms of Autism Spectrum Disorder. These are people that one might consider to be "deficient" on one or more areas such as social skills, even to such a crippling degree such that they are unable to care for themselves. Yet many of them have do have skills that are just off the charts of our ability to comprehend. Linguistics, numbers, pattern recognition and the like. Maybe an effect of the zombie haze is that it tips the balance both in the body and the mind. Amplifying certain attributes while subduing others...



as could ALL THIS being bullshit and Michael & co are all in the ward with him.
Nahhh... I think he did go to the Omega party and dropped some bad acid. He's tripping all of this while that girl that brought him is in the corner talking to plants. :D

[Unit]

So I was thinking a little bit about Ink's dialog, his ability to talk when CJ was trapped in the basement of Dunbar. Apparently he can communicate with the other biters just through a roar/yell or whatever you want to call it. He rallies the troops, sends them out, calls them back etc all through different yells, and they all seem to understand it completely. Why would he bother speaking in english with CJ? He could have simply communicated with them the same way he has been in the past, what made that situation special? And if all the other biters with him were able to understand him, they obviously have retained some of their intelligence and memory as well even if they aren't the 'smart ones'. Does that mean they are able to talk as well and maybe just choose not to? They can yell and roar and growl, and obviously understand English, why don't they speak anymore? Just some random thoughts swirling around in my head haha

[7oddisdead]

Possibly, but consider people that are affected by any of the symptoms of Autism Spectrum Disorder. These are people that one might consider to be "deficient" on one or more areas such as social skills, even to such a crippling degree such that they are unable to care for themselves. Yet many of them have do have skills that are just off the charts of our ability to comprehend. Linguistics, numbers, pattern recognition and the like. Maybe an effect of the zombie haze is that it tips the balance both in the body and the mind. Amplifying certain attributes while subduing others...



Nahhh... I think he did go to the Omega party and dropped some bad acid. He's tripping all of this while that girl that brought him is in the corner talking to plants. :D

its funny, I hadn't even considered that first bit...and some might say I suffer from a slight case of exactly what your saying. (those people are assholes though..). I do question placing a diagnosis such as that on someone like TOWTM. Latlely ive been fascinated by exploring the language center of the brain(broca's area and Wernicke's area both) a very interesting tidbit popped up pertaining to exactly what we have been talking about the last couple pages with inks cognitive function..

receptive aphasia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptive_aphasia

while im not saying that this is whats going on with pinstripes ol brain(or was, as the case early on) the above article gives some very interesting insight into how the brain works...hell, ill pull a couple quotes for you non-linkers...

"People with receptive aphasia are unable to understand language in its written or spoken form, and even though they can speak with normal grammar, syntax, rate, and intonation, they cannot express themselves meaningfully using language."

"When we want to speak, we formulate what we are going to say in Wernicke’s area, which then transmits our plan of speech to Broca’s area, where the plan of speech is carried out[citation needed]. Wernicke’s Area is located posterior to the lateral sulcus, typically in the left hemisphere, between the visual, auditory, and somesthetic areas of the cerebral cortex. A person with this aphasia speaks normally but uses random or invented words; leaves out key words; substitutes words or verb tenses, pronouns, or prepositions; and utters sentences that do not make sense. They have normal sentence length and intonation but without true meaning. They can also have a tendency to talk excessively. A person with this aphasia cannot understand the spoken words of others or read written words. Speech is preserved, but language content is incorrect. Substitutions of one word for another (paraphasias, e.g. “telephone” for “television”) are common. Comprehension and repetition are poor."

"Patients who recover from Wernicke’s aphasia report that, while aphasic, they found the speech of others to be unintelligible. And, despite being cognizant of the fact that they were speaking, they could neither stop themselves nor understand their own words.[citation needed]

The ability to understand and repeat songs is usually unaffected, as these are processed by the opposite hemisphere. Melodic intonation therapy (MIT) has been pursued for some years with aphasic patients under the belief that it helps stimulate the ability to speak normally. There is some question as to the effectiveness of MIT.[3] But more recent, and more rigorously conducted, research has revealed that MIT can be very effective at recovering language function.[4]

Patients also generally have no trouble purposefully reciting anything they have memorized. The ability to utter profanity is also left unaffected, however the patient typically has no control over it, and may not even understand their own profanity."

[Gnex]

Ah, but isn't he described as having a disfigured hand? Like where Burt may have shot him. I would have to relisten to be sure.

I believe if his hand is disfigured by the encounter with Burt, that was after entering the code to get into the lobby. Burt shoots him twice in the chest in the hallway, then he jumps out the window, the last shot from Burt(after reloading) hits him in the hand.

Also(But I could not be clear about where the cameras are in the tower) Lizzy says something to Michael that I thought was interesting..... Michael is yelling at her, saying "Did you not look at his face?!?!" and Lizzy says something to the effect of "No, he kept his back turned the whole time"

So the question...... Is the reason Ink takes multiple times to enter the code correctly because he is trying to enter it with his back turned to the keypad???? And if so, wouldn't this strike anyone as odd that some guy is standing out in the street where he could get attacked at any minute, and he won't even turn around to enter a code correctly?

[RolandDeschain]

I don't know if I'm posting this in the right place or not. I'm a fan of the show and have just started listening to the We're Not Dead podcast which got me thinking a bit. I don't know if they pick their comments up from here or not but I wanted to share them...

Duncan / Skittles - ex radon labs employee or former subject (hence the weirds)? Potentially let Ink in to CJ's (Dunbar?) tower due to recognition?

Randy / The Bearded One
- A guy who could end the plague? Potentially at the water plant when Michael was stranded there, was he trying to fix the system and introduce something to the water as a vaccine?

- A guy who could end humanity?
Former cohort of Ink at Radon labs, sabotaging the water plant for good before converting himself to a smart one?

As one guy said on the podcast, behemoths could be the step in the process before perfecting the little ones - perhaps they are erroneous which would explain why the other zombies would leave them alone, a failed project...

Keratin 18 associated with Hepatitis, an illness that can transfer via blood, just like the zombie plague.

Ink - the DVR playback is in part 3 of episode 2 - convicted of multiple homicides outside of Santa Monica last May, accepted plea of insanity, paranoid schizophrenic. Family devastated.

[Unit]

I know this isn't the Reptrivia thread but just a reminder for everyone, there is a new daily quiz and weekly quiz that started today. Go check them out and see how good your 'We're Alive' knowledge really is :squint:

Get a Rep from me if you can pull 100% on the weekly quiz!!! :excited:

[scbubba]

Oh good gravy..... :)



I also hope not,of course...but that's the fun of this story. One COULD easily skew the way one interprets it and it would fit that line of thinking. Once we start introducing any sort of psychosis in any of our major characters, the question of what's real and what isn't is among the first to be asked(or should be)...
Well, that sure would be a Sucker Punch....

[FunkyDung]

my initial thought is that as far as I know most bacteria(??) can be killed off much more easily than a virus. They are a different animal and can be killed off by an anti-bacterial..generally.

True, but what about supergerms, like MRSA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methicillin-resistant_Staphylococcus_aureus)? I can confirm from personal experience (photos available for the morbidly curious) that the drugs Tanya gave Saul (vancomycin and clindamycin) are used to treat MRSA, which is resistant to most antibiotics. Some strains may be resistant to all of them. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2147653/Deadly-strain-MRSA-resistant-line-antibiotic-used-treat-infections.html) Of possible relevance to a certain location in the story is the fact that MRSA is a germ that originated in hospitals.