Chapter 39-1: Chemical Reactions

[nikvoodoo]

It's been two weeks. It's time...it's TIME...IT'S WE'RE ALIVE TIME!

Have a happy Monday and enjoy the episode!

[Merlin1274]

Happy WA monday!!!!!

[LiamKerrington]

"Mondays I have Friday on my mind ... " Damn earworm ... Still bugs me!

Cheers! #39-1 is approaching ...!

[scbubba]

Is it posted yet? What about now? How about.......... NOW?

No? Ok, I'll wait.....




Now?

[pmchawk]

Prediction time. We see our 1st Z at 5:37 mark.

[Grognaurd]

Are we there yet?

[LiamKerrington]

Prediction time. We see our 1st Z at 5:37 mark.

I challenge this with 3:51.

[Witch_Doctor]

Is is posted yet?

[LiamKerrington]

Is is posted yet?

Nope. It is not online - yet. I guess, it will do so in about 50 minutes onwards. That was the case during the last releases ...

[Witch_Doctor]

How about now?
Now?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
now?
ughhhhh!!!!

[LiamKerrington]

http://cheznectarine.c.h.pic.centerblog.net/f4086d8a.jpg

[UndeadSweeper]

*Refresh*
*Refresh*
*Refresh*
Not yet....
*Refresh*
*Refresh*
*Refresh*
Not yet.... Ughhhhh

[Grognaurd]

http://cheznectarine.c.h.pic.centerblog.net/f4086d8a.jpg

...best left for the dead, for only they have time to spare.

Crap! Real life crows outside my window

[UndeadSweeper]

Is trainee code word for red shirt?

[LiamKerrington]

Is trainee code word for red shirt?

I raised that question as well. But later he was named "J" or "Jay" or something like that. So no Red Shirt in the classic sense ...

Cool episode. Again cool episode. Thank you for sharing. There is a lot more to it than meets the ear ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[UndeadSweeper]

I raised that question as well. But later he was named "J" or "Jay" or something like that. So no Red Shirt in the classic sense ...

Cool episode. Again cool episode. Thank you for sharing. There is a lot more to it than meets the ear ...

Best wishes!
Liam

"There is a lot more to it than meets the ear ..."

LOL, I just saw Transformer Prime last night and it was a Zombie ep. They were called Terrorcon.

[Kc]

Jay was a background character in the colony fight in chapters previous... so he's not really "new"...

[Storm]

So so so so so so so excited!!!!!!!!!
And wow, I thought Puck were going to wave bye-bye this time. Hehe.
Oh, and Randy...Raaaaandyyyyy!!!

[LiamKerrington]

"There is a lot more to it than meets the ear ..."

LOL, I just saw Transformer Prime last night and it was a Zombie ep. They were called Terrorcon.

Zombie-Robots? Er Robot-Zombies???

Oscar Michael Foxtrott Golf ... I need to watcht that episode ...

[Bakkie-Pleur]

Damm that was cool! Wow wow wow, just as exciting as the very first episodes! Pfff damm this was intense!

[Jannit]

Ugh. I can't get this to play! QQ How long does it take before the episode is up on Stitcher? Never used Stitcher before.

[Kc]

Ugh. I can't get this to play! QQ How long does it take before the episode is up on Stitcher? Never used Stitcher before.

Stitcher has their own servers that ping ours, so I'm not sure entirely. If you contact them, I'm sure they'll update it manually.

[Jannit]

Thanks a bunch Kc!

[UndeadSweeper]

Zombie-Robots? Er Robot-Zombies???

Oscar Michael Foxtrott Golf ... I need to watcht that episode ...

The eps name was Thirst

[HardKor]

Oh yeah, the story's starting to pick up some serious momentum now.
A couple of initial reactions:

1) So now we have the return of Raydon Labs. I think we've all been waiting for that Chekhov's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun) to be fired. But I got to hand it to ya KC, I was starting to doubt whether or not it was going to be important.
My prediction, and it's probably an obvious one: We're gonna end up going into Raydon Labs for a little exploratory mission like we saw with the Hospital. And we're finally going to get some answers about the start of the outbreak.

2) Tanya's got herself a little Frankenstein laboratory in the morgue now. I understand what she's trying to do and I know it's important and all, but she's still starting to creep me out a bit. Tanya needs to be careful, obsessing too much over studying the zombies could end up creating an unhealthy mentality. For some reason that whole scene in the morgue made me think of the crazy doctor from Day of the Dead.
Which leads me to prediction #2 (of the crackpot, tinfoil hat variety):
They're going to capture Randy and try to train him a la Bub from Day of the Dead.

[Witch_Doctor]

Is trainee code word for red shirt?

Ha haa! My thoughts exactly.

[Grognaurd]

7odd is going to be doing his happy dance. Lots of chemicals begin with FO. Many get their name from the Latin Formica meaning Ant.


Ants use Formic Acid to mark trails. It stinks, kinda like someone else we know

We also hear a bunch of crows when they first get to the location

And we go all the way back to season one on the roof of Locked and Loaded where Burt, a gun nut, says that is a level three ID from Raydon Labs. You got to be pretty damn smart to get one of those. Or something very similar.

[Witch_Doctor]

Damm that was cool! Wow wow wow, just as exciting as the very first episodes! Pfff damm this was intense!
Couldn't agree more!!!

[7oddisdead]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndddddddddddddd.. .................yup


Ruff-Rho Shaggy, 7odd is going to be doing his happy dance. Lots of chemicals begin with FO. Many get their name from the Latin Formica meaning Ant.



We also hear a bunch of crows when they first get to the location

And we go all the way back to season one on the roof of Locked and Loaded where Burt, a gun nut, says that is a level three ID from Raydon Labs. You got to be pretty damn smart to get one of those. Or something very similar.

so im thinking we should let this line of thinking go for the time being, id hate to predict what happens next with our bumbling crackpottery!!
:D

[7oddisdead]

but just so folks are informed....
http://hubpages.com/hub/Formic-Acid-Dangers-and-Uses-in-Nature-and-in-Humans



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formicinae

[Merlin1274]

Radon Labs. Is that the company that will test for Radon Gas or is a Biological Lab.. If Radon Gas Lab then Here goes.. Radon Gas leaked up from the ground from the crack near ground zero. Combined with some chems Ink made, instead of Gamma making the Green Hulk. Radon made the Zombies..

Ok back to the story. Awesome.. Tanya is too excited she is bound to have a screw up.. I wonder if she will have "an accident" and endanger Mouldon and Robbins.

I thought Puck was gonna punch Michael for leaving him.. One day we will find out Michael's obsession with Randy.

New Guy.. How do you get stuck in the Flower Bed?? Damn dude..

Now the wait till next Monday.. DAMN IT!!!!!

Next question will be are those 2 chemicals what Ink?TOWTM uses to make his little ones?

[UndeadSweeper]

Ok, back on track.

1) I feel bad for that lady. This morning you are eating breakfast and next you being operation by Tanya while you are still alive. Can anyone explain what Tanya was doing? I was lost in that conversation.

2) The teams seem to be extremely organized. Really, cameras and tracking? CJ is also manning communications?

3) Puck owned this eps.

4) What killed the big one? Oddly this is the first we seen one by itself.

5) So the zombies have setup an postal service system already?

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

The main question is:
Why did Randy run around with a bag with two bottles of FO-shit from Radon Labs ... ? Why? What was the purpose of this? Did he collect shit in order to bring it somewhere? Was he on a "mission"? Did he - as some of us theorize - act based on his own agenda?

Best wishes!
Liam

[UndeadSweeper]

Hi.

The main question is:
Why did Randy run around with a bag with two bottles of FO-shit from Radon Labs ... ? Why? What was the purpose of this? Did he collect shit in order to bring it somewhere? Was he on a "mission"? Did he - as some of us theorize - act based on his own agenda?

Best wishes!
Liam

As I said before, Zombie Postal Service. And you thought the Postal Office was slow now...

[7oddisdead]

Ok, back on track.

5) So the zombies have setup an postal service system already?

this makes total sense really, randy wouldn't be one of the "upper echelon" within the horde. sending him out on the scouting missions, supply runs, etc would be the smartest thing they could do. hes smart enough to

control his group
find whatever they need
outwit Michael and co into a trap if contact is made

the bit im beginning to wonder about is..was randy aware of the cameras, and if so...how?

also, on the bit puck says about them eating their own dead...or at least maintaining their food supply

http://inspiringscience.net/2012/08/28/how-does-an-ant-colony-coordinate-its-behaviour/
http://msucares.com/insects/fireants/biology.html

[UndeadSweeper]

Yup, how may people would pay any mind to a zombie carry anything or even to one zombie walking around?

Also, what if Randy and ADLO are living people change to a zombie, but they never really die? That why they could maintain their intelligences.

Also noticed during the whole morgue conversation, the word "alive" was drop quite a bit.

[Witch_Doctor]

Hi.

The main question is:
Why did Randy run around with a bag with two bottles of FO-shit from Radon Labs ... ? Why? What was the purpose of this? Did he collect shit in order to bring it somewhere? Was he on a "mission"? Did he - as some of us theorize - act based on his own agenda?

Best wishes!
Liam

I half way thought the bottles were going to say "formula" as he was shopping for a baby zombie. The last time we saw a dead behemoth was at the introduction to the Little Ones.


Next question will be are those 2 chemicals what Ink?TOWTM uses to make his little ones?

Maybe. Just maybe. What if the behemoths are 'pregnant' with Little Ones?

Also,

Fewer zombies, no bodies? Where are they?
Zombies using tools? Randy carrying stuff in a bag.
If Radon Labs or Raydon Labs works with the subterranean gas then that might support the geological or subterranean source for the outbreak. I'm siding with 7oddisdead on this one. So many new bits of info that I don't even know where to begin to speculate.

[MattRHale]

This episode fascinated the shit out of me. So much so that I just had to make my first contribution to the discussion. It's all about the mystery bag.

While Michael and Puck are investigating the bottles found in Randy's bag, one of them reads the letters "FO", and comments on a metallic smell and that the contents of the broken bottle are "all over everything". There's no mention of vapour or fumes so it's unlikely that it contained a strong acid, in my opinion. Earlier in the episode, during the mortuary scene, Robbins comments on the jars of specimens lining the walls. I think this might be a hint towards what's in one of the bottles; formaldehyde.

Formaldehyde is known to have a pungent smell and is extremely common. It is most notably used in the preservation of organic matter, such as the jars in Tanya's lab. It's also used in literally thousands of industrial processes, a large proportion of which involve biological significance. It's nasty stuff if you come into contact with it. I should state at this point that I'm not a chemist, or biologist, but I do have some knowledge of industrial chemical supply chains.

Raydon Labs has been a moot point since the first season and I'd like to speculate that they are a supplier, not an evil research organisation. The bottles have been said to have the Raydon Labs logo on them, and they were in transit at the time of the attack on Michael, Puck and Newbie. If I'm right about the contents being formaldehyde then it's unlikely that a high security biological laboratory would be formulating their own. It's cheap and readily available. I think this shows that someone requires supplies to continue their research, and where better to get them than your usual supplier?

So who's doing what with a chemical known to have serious negative effects on living tissue, and preservative effects on dead tissue? A fucking zombie mastermind, that's who! Who knows what Ink can do when he's not being a total dickhead? Is he smart enough to cure himself?

I won't speculate any further, but I'm looking forward to the next episode massively.

[Witch_Doctor]

Tanya's examination was the creepiest. She's gone completely Mad Doctor on us. Especially when she says that she really had no intention of saving the bitten lady. I doubted that she had any V&C antibiotics handy. But at the same time, there was nothing that could be done to help the lady and the research needed to be done. IS/OUGHT
Anyone have a clue as to what those numbers were that she was calling out as she was collecting blood samples? Just like Undeadsweeper said, she's getting too excited for her own safety. I thought she cut herself at one point. Now I wonder how much she may have been at fault when she was bitten by the slow turner, or even if she used herself as an experiment test subject. If the Colony wouldn't let people IN with scratches, why would they let someone STAY who was BITTEN?

[7oddisdead]

This episode fascinated the shit out of me. So much so that I just had to make my first contribution to the discussion. It's all about the mystery bag.

While Michael and Puck are investigating the bottles found in Randy's bag, one of them reads the letters "FO", and comments on a metallic smell and that the contents of the broken bottle are "all over everything". There's no mention of vapour or fumes so it's unlikely that it contained a strong acid, in my opinion. Earlier in the episode, during the mortuary scene, Robbins comments on the jars of specimens lining the walls. I think this might be a hint towards what's in one of the bottles; formaldehyde.

Formaldehyde is known to have a pungent smell and is extremely common. It is most notably used in the preservation of organic matter, such as the jars in Tanya's lab. It's also used in literally thousands of industrial processes, a large proportion of which involve biological significance. It's nasty stuff if you come into contact with it. I should state at this point that I'm not a chemist, or biologist, but I do have some knowledge of industrial chemical supply chains.

Raydon Labs has been a moot point since the first season and I'd like to speculate that they are a supplier, not an evil research organisation. The bottles have been said to have the Raydon Labs logo on them, and they were in transit at the time of the attack on Michael, Puck and Newbie. If I'm right about the contents being formaldehyde then it's unlikely that a high security biological laboratory would be formulating their own. It's cheap and readily available. I think this shows that someone requires supplies to continue their research, and where better to get them than your usual supplier?

So who's doing what with a chemical known to have serious negative effects on living tissue, and preservative effects on dead tissue? A fucking zombie mastermind, that's who! Who knows what Ink can do when he's not being a total dickhead? Is he smart enough to cure himself?

I won't speculate any further, but I'm looking forward to the next episode massively.

first off..EXTREMELY GOOD FIRST POST. EVERYONE WHO READS THIS. REP ^^^this guy! make him feel welcome.

second. cure? or strengthen?
Michael did mention a strong metallic odor. one of primary reasons I thought formic acid instead of formaldehyde is its use in tanning leather. much like the leather/leathery skin of the little ones/behemoths. could they zom not be tanning their own hides?

[Grognaurd]

Welcome Matt! We do not know what the chemical is, but the opperative is Form- HCO- could be an aldehyde, amide, ic, etc.

I hazard a guess an it is Randy's version of the sweat jar. Drop as a trap on Michael's group or just a get out of jail free card if he is attacked by other "zombies" not part of his tribe. Raydon Labs could be a supplier, or it could be the evil genius. We need some way to get back there and maybe they buy the chemical in bulk, from Acme and Willie Coyote, but put it in smaller sized bottles as stockable intermediates with their own labels.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Who would have thought that the redshirt noob would survive the episode?

http://www.geekalerts.com/u/Live-Fast-Die-Red-Shirt.jpg

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

So Randy is physically a Super-Z as he is able to outrun Michael and Puck. Bam. And yes, we got that particular chapter 3 reference to Radon Labs. Wham. Finally, Michael should start to give Puck some credit and tell him (and us) his arm story. Damn.

[LizzyFabre]

You guys are being really mean to my friend, Jay, played by James Stebick. Just because he's an idiot who doesn't know how to plant things or drive and can't understand the word "wolf," doesn't mean he deserves to get wasted like some faceless, nameless, nobody. LONG LIVE JAY!

[LizzyFabre]

James Stebick is telling me now that he is not an idiot. I stand corrected.

[scbubba]

You guys are being really mean to my friend, Jay, played by James Stebick. Just because he's an idiot who doesn't know how to plant things or drive and can't understand the word "wolf," doesn't mean he deserves to get wasted like some faceless, nameless, nobody. LONG LIVE JAY!

You wanna make an omelette, you gotta break a few eggs.... :D

I'm not saying I wanted him to die, but he sure sounded like he had a red shirt on at first.

[UndeadSweeper]

You guys are being really mean to my friend, Jay, played by James Stebick. Just because he's an idiot who doesn't know how to plant things or drive and can't understand the word "wolf," doesn't mean he deserves to get wasted like some faceless, nameless, nobody. LONG LIVE JAY!

I think we all heard woof , So he was right.

Funny, KC is the only one who repped this. LOL

[Osiris]

You guys are being really mean to my friend, Jay, played by James Stebick. Just because he's an idiot who doesn't know how to plant things or drive and can't understand the word "wolf," doesn't mean he deserves to get wasted like some faceless, nameless, nobody. LONG LIVE JAY!

12 posts in and already, pure gold.

http://i.imgur.com/1tzMhUG.jpg

[Witch_Doctor]

"Hey we got another lone wuff over here."
"Huh? A Wuff?"


Ha Ha! Gotta love Puck.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjbf-dHjW0

[Osiris]

Makes me wonder how he says quarter.

q+watah?

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

You guys are being really mean to my friend, Jay, played by James Stebick. Just because he's an idiot who doesn't know how to plant things or drive and can't understand the word "wolf," doesn't mean he deserves to get wasted like some faceless, nameless, nobody. LONG LIVE JAY!

No, Jay's cool and a nice addition to the cast. Maybe it is a gender thing. I mean, there seem to exist people who get "aroused" by women who got stuck with their car... awkward and strange.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA2YvVPpDNc

[Osiris]

No, Jay's cool and a nice addition to the cast. Maybe it is a gender thing. I mean, there seem to exist people who get "aroused" by women who got stuck with their car... awkward and strange.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA2YvVPpDNc

What?

[Kc]

No, Jay's cool and a nice addition to the cast. Maybe it is a gender thing. I mean, there seem to exist people who get "aroused" by women who got stuck with their car... awkward and strange.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA2YvVPpDNc

It has come to this?

[7oddisdead]

Better yet...the thing nobody has brought up.

Kelly is at Dunbar now.

"on the reg" is right.

[clem131]

WOOOOOOOT!!!!! Thanks KC, this episode was great!!!
I like how all the little devices used by our survivors are "believable": KODI was left by the army, the cameras and the sensors are easy to pull off with off-the-shelf material, every little detail is *credible*. It really shows the work behind it.
Just a question about spelling: is it Radon Labs or Raydon Labs? I'm a radiation physicist so I just want to know if I need to put on my tinfoil hat about radioactive gas theories or not.

[scbubba]

Wow! Loved this episode. For so many reasons.

- Time jump into something happening
- Crazy Doctor Tanya geeking out on a turning person (Crazy == Creepy too)
- Randy!!!!!!!
- Zombies!!!!!
- Organized Zombies?!?!?
- Puck: funny and serious. I am loving his character more and more every episode
- Michael: reckless but determined
- Mysteries!?!?!?!?
- Raydon Labs (Dun dun duuuunnnnn!!)

I'm still at work so I don't have a ton of time to go into the breakdown of the episode yet. More to come later.

Minor points I picked up:
Tanya has been regularly at Dunbar. (not at Colony)
Kelly is at Dunbar and maybe a regular visitor/resident. (not at Colony)
Michael, Puck, Robbins, Muldoon, (and Carl? couldn't tell) are all out on the patrol (not at Colony)
Assumed Saul, Lizzie, and Victor are at Dunbar or a safe house (not at Colony)
Assumed Burt and Riley are still at large on Scratch Patrol (not at Colony)

That seems to only leave Farmer Pegs at the Colony (from the original Tower crew + Ft Irwin crew). I wonder if that is a window of opportunity that Scratchypoo might try to wiggle through?

Ahhh, I've said too much as it is.

Wait! Grognaurd and 7oddisdead - you guys are killing it with the ant thing. Love it!

[Osiris]

Better yet...the thing nobody has brought up.

Kelly is at Dunbar now.

"on the reg" is right.

:naughty:

[LizzyFabre]

No, Jay's cool and a nice addition to the cast. Maybe it is a gender thing. I mean, there seem to exist people who get "aroused" by women who got stuck with their car... awkward and strange.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA2YvVPpDNc

Yes, I too find Jay sexy when he's putting our heroes in mortal peril. He's the worst, but so damn fine (just like the real James Stebick: http://www.cherryspitz.com/?attachment_id=542) Awwwwww yeeeeeeeah......

[Malador]

I think the real trap laid by Randy may have been "accidentally" dropping the bottles from Radon Labs, after posing for at least three cameras and waiting around to make contact.

[scbubba]

"Hey we got another lone wuff over here."
"Huh? A Wuff?"

Ha Ha! Gotta love Puck.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjbf-dHjW0

^^^^This^^^^ is what I immediately thought of when I heard that exchange!

Then I thought about this....
http://i.imgur.com/xOWZ6Bk.jpg

[clem131]

Forgot to say: Kelly's at Dunbar, but Scbubba ninjaed me on this. But he forgot to say this means Victor is getting lucky.
Also: it took a while and many many posts on this forum but, concerning Michael's arm, in this episode KC finally quit trolling. Yay.

[scbubba]

Yes, I too find Jay sexy when he's putting our heroes in mortal peril. He's the worst, but so damn fine (just like the real James Stebick: http://www.cherryspitz.com/?attachment_id=542) Awwwwww yeeeeeeeah......

Woooo!!!! Dat 'fro! :D

[Osiris]

I think the real trap laid by Randy may have been "accidentally" dropping the bottles from Radon Labs, after posing for at least three cameras and waiting around to make contact.

It's a small mouth bass! The real story is over at Reef Systems.

[Kc]

WOOOOOOOT!!!!! Thanks KC, this episode was great!!!
I like how all the little devices used by our survivors are "believable": KODI was left by the army, the cameras and the sensors are easy to pull off with off-the-shelf material, every little detail is *credible*. It really shows the work behind it.
Just a question about spelling: is it Radon Labs or Raydon Labs? I'm a radiation physicist so I just want to know if I need to put on my tinfoil hat about radioactive gas theories or not.

Raydon. I think I'll fix the Wiki now.

EDIT: Oh, it already was fixed. The incorrect spelling is a re-direct.

[scbubba]

It has come to this?

Of course it has, Kc. Of course it has....
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/002/945/630px-Rule_34_original.jpg?1243972688

[Osiris]

Raydon. I think I'll fix the Wiki now.

I know who's behind it all. Everything is suddenly clear!


http://i.imgur.com/e8FF6i1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/G7p2BQJ.jpg

[Merlin1274]

Raydon. Dang there goes my out there Theory..
But the cracks have something to do with it.. Cause Crack does cause zombies..

Yea I missed the part where Kelly was at Dunbar.. Not sure how that eluded me. Must of been when I was taking a bite of my ham sandwich and choked for a sec..

I had thought it was funny Randy just happened to be walking around with a bag around the cameras just 15mins before they check them? Sounds like Randy maybe up to something. Or is just one big damn coincidence..

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Of course it has, Kc. Of course it has....
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/002/945/630px-Rule_34_original.jpg?1243972688

Oh, scubba, we are too old for this. :)

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/porn.png

[Grognaurd]

So, how smart is Randy?

Smart enough to get seen on Camera on purpose?
Smart enough to drop a sweat jar to get away?
Smart enough to drop a sweat jar to ambush Puck an Michael away from the .50cal?

Smart enough to drop a Raydon Lab bottle and ambush them there?

:tinfoil:
Smart enough to drop a Raydon Lab Bottle and ambush Dunbar while the crew is at Raydon Labs?

Michael was acting a lot like Saul when he was on his Lizzy-quest.

[clem131]

Raydon. I think I'll fix the Wiki now.

EDIT: Oh, it already was fixed. The incorrect spelling is a re-direct.

Sigh. I became a physicist for nothing.

[wh33t]

Kc! Incredible episode. This episode had that fire of the whole first season! I never thought WA could return to that kind of excitement! Thank you thank you!

[LiamKerrington]

Ok.

I rephrase my questions I raised earlier: What do them zombs use chemical stuff for? And is Randy really "only" a postal service - for whom exactly?
Does this mean that them organized zombs have different locations like the humans do have?

Imagine this: If this chemical stuff from Raydon Labs is in fact formaldehyd, could this mean that them zombs conserve their food that way? This would fit into the picture that them zombs show up scarcely, because they could hide somewhere and eat from their self-made conserved food. We actually know that them zombs have learned to collect and stash food big time; we learned about it in the arena. And we also know that them zombs gathered food, i.e. human (and zombie) bodies ...

And if the chemicals are NOT formaldehyd, but something completely else, where die Randy want to transport it to - and why? Only in order to ambush or trick them survivors?

One thing freaked me out: Randy seams to have similar skills or feats or attributes link Ink does - super fast, no trouble overcoming hindrances (I mean, getting passed a fence, where Michael and Puck (both trained soldiers)), quite 'intelligent' ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Elisa]

Or maybe Randy wants Michael to find them.

The cover art for the episode is this the gal who turned at the morgue or something else?

[7oddisdead]

More fun stuff...

so I'm not actually a doctor (even though on tv, I'm a mad dentist)...but could taynas times and numbers be a rate of spreading? (think forgein bodies within the blood) could she test for that sort of thing..and if so would those numbers times line up with anything? Somebody with more knowledge on it needs to weigh in. (looking right at you,sid)

[UndeadSweeper]

I know who's behind it all. Everything is suddenly clear!


http://i.imgur.com/e8FF6i1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/G7p2BQJ.jpg

Rayden?
2745

[7oddisdead]

http://m.imdb.com/name/nm0001044/

that is all.

[EpiEpee]

More fun stuff...

so I'm not actually a doctor (even though on tv, I'm a mad dentist)...but could taynas times and numbers be a rate of spreading? (think forgein bodies within the blood) could she test for that sort of thing..and if so would those numbers times line up with anything? Somebody with more knowledge on it needs to weigh in. (looking right at you,sid)

Not Sid, but a couple of quick thoughts. I don't think it could be a rate of spread. Both viral load and bacterial culture take longer to test than what Tanya's doing. She could be doing some sort of cell count (white blood cells came to mind), but the numbers don't really make sense to me for that, and I don't hear a counter going either.

When she first said 195, my first thought was wow, they need to get her heart rate down asap before her heart stops, but when she got up to 375 I knew I was dead wrong on that first impression.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I really couldn't think of many tests with those numbers that could be done quickly at the bedside. Glucose can be done quickly, and you could see those sorts of numbers in somebody headed into a diabetic crisis, but that doesn't really make any sense in this situation.

[dontkillburt]

My guess is you'll be hearing from our lawyers soon.

Radon Labs, Inc
"We're a gas!"

[7oddisdead]

Good stuff epi!

I'm at work so I can't really relisten, but sounds like if we could find the rate vs time. We might be able to pinpoint what's being tested. If I get a chance later I'll relisten and do some math...me+math=good stuff.

me+science= boom(explodey eyes)

[Osiris]

Rayden?
2745

Not to be confused with http://i.imgur.com/9Klnb88.jpg

[Osiris]

http://m.imdb.com/name/nm0001044/

that is all.

She was so fracking hot in Boulevard with Kari Wuhrer.

[Kc]

My guess is you'll be hearing from our lawyers soon.

Radon Labs, Inc
"We're a gas!"

They went belly up in 2010. We're good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon_Labs

[Storm]

Michael was acting a lot like Saul when he was on his Lizzy-quest.
That's because Michael and Randy were secret lovers before the outbreak. When they met Again at the Waterworks, and Randy was turning (which he of course did slowly - that's why he's so intelligent) he hugged Michael a bit too tight when they said their last farewell to each other, breaking Michael's arm.
This explains why Michael just tells everyone that he got his arm crushed in a door. He's afraid of getting out of the closet.
And here's another thing that backs up this theory of mine: Raydon Labs is an anagram. Two letters are missing though, but you can still spell "O, Randy Bals"

[UndeadSweeper]

I think Storm is try to cover up for Rayden. They seem to be working together.:squint:

[Grognaurd]

Not Sid,

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I really couldn't think of many tests with those numbers that could be done quickly at the bedside. Glucose can be done quickly, and you could see those sorts of numbers in somebody headed into a diabetic crisis, but that doesn't really make any sense in this situation.

They have some new blood tests that can detect a heart attack is less than an hour. Some of the new Biodefense sensors can detect Anthrax and small pox in less than two minutes.

What Tanya did was wicked fast. My guess is she was pushing the test as fast as she possibly could just to see what would happen and then she can repeat the test more accurately. She could easily draw a few milliliters of blood and the blood test might only consume 0.1ml of the sample to run the assay. If she got a "hit" she could run the test more accurately with longer incubation times and better washing steps.

[Kc]

They have some new blood tests that can detect a heart attack is less than an hour. Some of the new Biodefense sensors can detect Anthrax and small pox in less than two minutes.

What Tanya did was wicked fast. My guess is she was pushing the test as fast as she possibly could just to see what would happen and then she can repeat the test more accurately. She could easily draw a few milliliters of blood and the blood test might only consume 0.1ml of the sample to run the assay. If she got a "hit" she could run the test more accurately with longer incubation times and better washing steps.

The speed of any test might be fudged a bit for story purposes. It would be very dull to be like, ok. Let's sit here and wait like 3 hours. NOT TO SAY THE TEST IN QUESTION WOULD TAKE THAT LONG, but you get the point.

[nikvoodoo]

Can't believe no one made this connection yet!!! Jay is totally boinking Pegs. After all, he got stuck in a flower bed!

Too tin foily?

Loved it! I kept waiting to hear who was this chick who got herself bit expecting Riley, or Pegs...maybe Kelly.... Nope. No one we really even knew. At least she got Dr. Kevorkian all jazzed up about something.

[EpiEpee]

They have some new blood tests that can detect a heart attack is less than an hour. Some of the new Biodefense sensors can detect Anthrax and small pox in less than two minutes.

What Tanya did was wicked fast. My guess is she was pushing the test as fast as she possibly could just to see what would happen and then she can repeat the test more accurately. She could easily draw a few milliliters of blood and the blood test might only consume 0.1ml of the sample to run the assay. If she got a "hit" she could run the test more accurately with longer incubation times and better washing steps.

Sure, I didn't mean to totally exclude all infectious causes. There's any number of new tests out there, but guessing at what Tanya was likely to have easy access to in a presumably still resource strapped hospital/clinic, I wasn't coming up with any immediate likely candidates. And you basically described something along the same lines as what is commonly done with HIV testing-there's a quick and dirty, but high sensitivity test done, and then if that's positive there's a more specific test done. Not trying to lecture, I don't know what your background is. I had not heard of the anthrax and smallpox rapid tests before, so that is interesting news. I could be wrong (again) but I think most tests of that nature really just yield a positive or negative, not an exact number....?

Again, I don't have any really solid guesses as to what exactly she was testing, I was just trying to throw some more info out there. And I'm happy to allow for poetic license-didn't mean to imply that I wanted to be waiting for cultures to grow either. :-)

[dontkillburt]

Kc...

But exactly when 2010?

Chapter 39 - Part 1 of 3...6:13 into the podcast, Michael provides a journal entry...

Michael: "March 1st, 2010, our first big break..."

Wtf?

[Osiris]

Kc...

But exactly when 2010?

Chapter 39 - Part 1 of 3...6:13 into the podcast, Michael provides a journal entry...

Michael: "March 1st, 2010, our first big break..."

Wtf?

Wait. What? I think he's on to something. Didn't we already have Christmas?

[7oddisdead]

That is an odd coincidence...

[Arch_Will]

"Hey we got another lone wuff over here."
"Huh? A Wuff?"


Ha Ha! Gotta love Puck.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVjbf-dHjW0

The Lone Wuff

Wuff?

grrr

The big Doggie!

[Arch_Will]

Minor points I picked up:
Tanya has been regularly at Dunbar. (not at Colony)
Kelly is at Dunbar and maybe a regular visitor/resident. (not at Colony)
Michael, Puck, Robbins, Muldoon, (and Carl? couldn't tell) are all out on the patrol (not at Colony)
Assumed Saul, Lizzie, and Victor are at Dunbar or a safe house (not at Colony)
Assumed Burt and Riley are still at large on Scratch Patrol (not at Colony)

That seems to only leave Farmer Pegs at the Colony (from the original Tower crew + Ft Irwin crew). I wonder if that is a window of opportunity that Scratchypoo might try to wiggle through?



You forgot King Datu and Whiny Hope

[Storm]

We already had Christmas, yes... But that's Christmas 2009, not 10. What I don't get though is that Michael says 4 months at the end of C38, but when that chapter ends we're around the 23.rd of December 09... Four months later would then be at the end of April, not even close to where C39 starts.

[Osiris]

Unfortunately, I cannot find the video . . .

But at least 4 of you are old enough to get the reference:

Gene Wilder. Haunted Honeymoon.

+rep to the one who gets it first.

[Arch_Will]

Unfortunately, I cannot find the video . . .

But at least 4 of you are old enough to get the reference:

Gene Wilder. Haunted Honeymoon.

+rep to the one who gets it first.


wow.. .this is a movie that sends me back a few years.. lol haven't seen it in ages.. i must get it. lol

[Arch_Will]

found this from that movie and i keep thinking this is what Michael will be like when he meets TOWTM..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIcCaMcIZXc

[Arch_Will]

but i digress.. 10 pages of catch ups and come backs....grr..

Excellent episode KC!! now we're adding a bit of spice to this lovely casserole that is We're Alive..... (dawned on me.. KC's double meanings... what if the apostrophe was taken out... it becomes Were Alive..... past tense... everyone dies?... shares Grognaurd's scbubba's Osiris' and nik's Tin Hats)

Love the soldiers rapport here and their berating the new red shirt... and Randy is here... hi Randy.. :)

he drops chemicals beginning with Fo.. i see the theory for Formic acid and also that excellent post on formaldehyde and granted they are fantastic deductions.. there's another one which is a derivative of formic acid called Formamide which, according to online sources, is used to stabalise denatured strands of DNA... perhaps being used as the Z's own tests on a cure? or perhaps to further enhance their mutations? only time and KC's brain will tell.

and just thinking... Formic Acid... derived from "Formica" meaning Ant in Latin.... does this then mean that as it is an "Ant-acid" we should chug down this formic acid to cure heartburn? ... Call dibs!!.. Patent pending.. points fingers at everyone and stares till it's uncomfortable!

[7oddisdead]

This I found interesting. We were told he had two bottles in the bag.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18363119/


?

[FunkyDung]

The first thing I thought of after listening to the bit about Tanya's blood tests was my own experiences with them. I wonder if the value Tanya is recording is a concentration (such as of sodium, chloride, glucose, or cholesterol), or a count (such as of platelets, neutrophils, lymphocytes, monocyctes, eosinophils, or basophils).

[FunkyDung]

Awesome episode. Great to finally get some details. Fun dialog. I'm happy with where all but two characters are.

1. I freaking hate CJ. The sooner she's gone, the happier I'll be. I have zero emotional attachment to her, and I find her personality repellent.
2. What's with Michael? Yeah, we've know for quite a while that's he's damaged goods, but he's really falling a part now. Each new episode seems to lead him farther down the path of being a wuss/moron. I'm really not a fan of him willingly submitting to the leadership of CJ. See #1.

P.S. I don't like the strings in the intro. I want the piano back. :(

[Condor]

WOOOOOOOT!!!!! Thanks KC, this episode was great!!!
I like how all the little devices used by our survivors are "believable": KODI was left by the army, the cameras and the sensors are easy to pull off with off-the-shelf material, every little detail is *credible*. It really shows the work behind it.
Just a question about spelling: is it Radon Labs or Raydon Labs? I'm a radiation physicist so I just want to know if I need to put on my tinfoil hat about radioactive gas theories or not.
It sounded to me like the cameras were some kind of homemade set-up when they could use hunting game cameras. Then again I guess LA probably doesn't have as many deer hunters as there are where I'm at.


Not Sid, but a couple of quick thoughts. I don't think it could be a rate of spread. Both viral load and bacterial culture take longer to test than what Tanya's doing. She could be doing some sort of cell count (white blood cells came to mind), but the numbers don't really make sense to me for that, and I don't hear a counter going either.

When she first said 195, my first thought was wow, they need to get her heart rate down asap before her heart stops, but when she got up to 375 I knew I was dead wrong on that first impression.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I really couldn't think of many tests with those numbers that could be done quickly at the bedside. Glucose can be done quickly, and you could see those sorts of numbers in somebody headed into a diabetic crisis, but that doesn't really make any sense in this situation.
As I was reading your comment about heart rate, I thought about glucose too. Quick test and the numbers are high, but plausible.
As for making sense, if they don't know much about the infection any information, no matter how minor, might be useful.


Who would have thought that the redshirt noob would survive the episode?

http://www.geekalerts.com/u/Live-Fast-Die-Red-Shirt.jpg
So why does the red shirt have a TNG style phaser?

[MattRHale]

Awesome episode. Great to finally get some details. Fun dialog. I'm happy with where all but two characters are.

1. I freaking hate CJ. The sooner she's gone, the happier I'll be. I have zero emotional attachment to her, and I find her personality repellent.
2. What's with Michael? Yeah, we've know for quite a while that's he's damaged goods, but he's really falling a part now. Each new episode seems to lead him farther down the path of being a wuss/moron. I'm really not a fan of him willingly submitting to the leadership of CJ. See #1.

P.S. I don't like the strings in the intro. I want the piano back. :(

I agree with everything you said. Especially the piano part. String quartets are overrated. The new theme sounds weak compared to the original.

[Arch_Will]

So why does the red shirt have a TNG style phaser?

Q Continuum...

[ShadowSentinel]

Puck should be in charge! <br />
<br />
Yes! we are finally going to start seeing and hopefully finding out more about Randy. But, stupid Michael, of course it was a trap. Why is Puck the only sensible one? <br />
...

[7oddisdead]

alrighty then, here we go.

[7oddisdead]

--tanya and her lab--
so in taynas lab, perhaps the most noticeable of information we got was the tests she ran on that hot girl. the numbers we are given are 195 at zero minutes, 375 at 20 minutes. so an increase of nine per minute. the figure we did not hear that probly would have been important was test number 3 at 22 minutes. at that rate typical reaction would be for this number to be 393. personally, I bet its more like 465. why? exponential growth... without getting all technical about my job, chemical reactions(seewhatididthere) in the dairy industry, primarily in the production of sour cream see that type of growth of cultures and "good bacteria" once the cultures reach a point where they have control,they essentially explode...its crazy looking in a tank of sour cream at eleven hours...then looking at twelve, hell you could probly stand there and watch it grow. want to try it at home? pour red bull in 2% milk...give it awhile//scary shit.

but the idea of tanyas unknown tests, along with my obsession with the ant thing led me down a road to find this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anion_gap

which leads to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketoacid

which, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carboxylic_acid

and so on....seeing a trend here yet?

im not 100% on any of this just yet. right now I don't feel like we have quite enough info to fully jump down this rabbithole. but im willing to hang my feet over the edge.

--lone wolfs---
anybody else get the feeling the Michael and co might be missing something? since when do the biters carry things around? on my fourth relisten(yea, im THAT into this episode) it struck me "cans"..."bottles of water"...can a can not be used to carry water? what earthly purpose could the biters have for water? also, if we will remember...hand dexterity was an issue for pinstripes when he broke into the tower(our tower) as he had some issues typing the code in...but later on he(at least we think it was him) caught one of riley arrows out of the air..coming at him..and now regulars are carrying things? "something strange.....in the neighborhood". also, I personally love the use of the lone wolf term. in most cases, it feels very apt.

--randy's escape--
so a few(namely grognaurd) have brought this up already, but yea..that was pretty well executed by macho man. it also just goes to show in what way Michael felt "foolish" as he said at the end of last chapter. that has to be one of the most basic of traps that could have been laid, and he did kinda walk right into it..and left puck there to deal with it. I like this scene quite a bit just because of all the implications you could pull from it.
--randy showed Michael that they could lay basic traps
--randy made "contact" without being caught
--randy left Michael a clue
--randy gave them a line to follow

--randy himself--
so at this point I have to think that michael's contact with randy was post turning. we are unsure what his intentions are as far as capture, kill, question, hug it out, etc..but the way he seems to lose his shit when it comes to randy indicates to me that his experience at the waterworks was way more involved than "so my arm was in this door and...."

I also question just what randy's motives are. at one point, he was trying to capture Tanya, now we have him gathering chemicals that could be used to either help preserve himself, or help the biters keep their food fresher, depending on what was in the bag. I feel like its a very real possibility that randy dropped that bag on purpose. to...

A: give mike and co a place to go search
B: give mike and co a clue as to what the virus is
C: give mike and co a clue as to what could feasibly cure/fight the virus(or whatever)

--whats in the bag_
so I believe most should know by now that im on team "formic acid". (got a nice ring to it, don't it?) and theres a few reasons why, ive mentioned most of them already but id like to pull a few quotes while im actually at a pc and not on my mobile.

--uses in agriculture--
"Agriculture accounts for a very high percentage of formic acid use worldwide. Because of its natural antibacterial properties, formic acid has achieved very high use as both an antibacterial preservative and pesticide. In this industry, it is most commonly used as a food additive, and is frequently added to animal feed and silage. When it is used in silage, it serves a dual function. In addition to providing a certain level of antibacterial support, formic acid actually allows silage to begin fermentation at a lower temperature, greatly reducing the overall time that it takes to produce while increasing the nutritional value of the finished product."

--possible link to formic acid in gas form at ground zero--
"Depending on how concentrated it is, formic acid can either be unnoticeable or very dangerous. Through the course of our typical interaction with this chemical, we are exposed only to very low concentrations. Because of this, there is very little to fear. If exposed at high concentrations, however, there are many dangerous side effects that can occur. The most dangerous aspect of the formic acid is its highly corrosive nature when in a concentrated form. Because it is so corrosive, highly concentrated amounts of formic acid can lead to serious injury if it is inhaled, swallowed or touched directly. This includes ulcers, nausea, burns, blisters and extreme discomfort around the affected area. Although it is not likely except under special situations, high concentrations of formic acid should be avoided altogether."

--as a weapon--
"CASE REPORT:

A 26-year-old man committed suicide by mixing 2.5 L of formic acid and 2.5 L of sulfuric acid in three beakers and staying in a closed room. The 53-year-old father performed cardiopulmonary resuscitation on his son but soon lost consciousness. In hospital, he initially manifested coma, hypoxemia, metabolic acidosis, and a carboxyhemoglobin level of 45.8%. He was treated with hyperbaric oxygen but developed acute respiratory distress syndrome on day four despite an early improvement. He was successfully weaned from the ventilator on day 8. The 53-year-old mother felt dizziness, headache and had a carboxyhemoglobin level of 23.0%. Her symptoms improved after oxygen therapy."

--as a cause--
"Formic acid has low toxicity (hence its use as a food additive), with an LD50 of 1.8 g/kg (oral, mice). The concentrated acid is, however, corrosive to the skin.[4]

Formic acid is readily metabolized and eliminated by the body. Nonetheless, it has specific toxic effects; the formic acid and formaldehyde produced as metabolites of methanol are responsible for the optic nerve damage, causing blindness seen in methanol poisoning.[28] Some chronic effects of formic acid exposure have been documented. Some experiments on bacterial species have demonstrated it to be a mutagen.[29] Chronic exposure to humans may cause kidney damage.[29] Another effect of chronic exposure is development of a skin allergy that manifests upon re-exposure to the chemical."

well, I think that's all I have for this evening. im probly missing a few other little things I found today, but nothing that jumped out at me quite as much as this stuff....

todd out.

[scbubba]

Awesome post 7odd! Distilled a lot of good stuff there.

A few more of my thoughts.....

I listed out characters who were out of the Colony at the time of this episode and said everyone from the original Tower and Ft Irwin was out with the exception of Pegs. I stand corrected - I forgot about Datu and Hope (shame on me). I assume that those 2 are also still at the Colony. Even so, it still presents a tempting target for Scratch if she has a way to recon the place......

More on characters, after a couple of listens I picked up that all of the mortuary scene at the beginning (delivering the turner through the cutaway to Michael's voice over) is from Robbins' perspective. Made me try to recall when we had any journal entries from Tanya herself. I can't think of any attributed to her. That seems ominous.

With the tie in to Michael's voice over a the end of 38-3 saying they were "foolish", I've got a strong lean to the encounters in this episode being deliberate. From the dead behemoth and random biter that got hot red shirt girl into Dr Demento's hands to Randy sauntering by the cameras right before they get checked..... Hmmm.

Yes, these could be coincidental and compressed for story purposes and we did go months with nothing really happening. But I'm thinking that it's planned.

If we got some smart zombies, which I think is pretty much a given here, that are capable of organizing and controlling Z's and executing plans involving them then it's not such a stretch to think that Michael's crew may have been under some serious surveillance for all those months. And people being people, they have probably fallen into patterns in that amount of time - patrol, check cameras, patrol, move cameras, lather, rinse, repeat... Wouldn't be too hard to predict what would happen if you baited the humans out and let them see you wandering by.

Once Michael and Puck have contact with Randy, he bolts. Since Randy had at least a 15 minute lead on them, it seems like he was just hanging out there (with his bag). He takes off when he is discovered but the other Z's don't immediately attack. They seem to jump out once Michael is over the fence and Puck is by himself. They may or may not have been waiting on them to separate, but it really looks like they were meant to attack after Randy bounced. Classic, simple baited ambush....

Maybe that was all the trap was meant to be. And maybe it's more than that. Is the tie to Raydon Labs accidental (Randy didn't mean to drop the bag) or intentional (Randy dropped it to bait them on )? Following the whole "this encounter was a setup to ambush the soldiers" then I've got to lean towards Randy having the bag intentionally for this encounter. He meant to leave "evidence" about Raydon Labs or he was intending to use the contents of the bottles during or after the ambush. If this whole thing was a chance encounter, then the bottles are a happy accidental clue....

Trap or no trap, Michael's reaction to seeing Randy in person was crazy. And I mean, like psycho-crazy. He lost all sense of being intelligent. But it wasn't necessarily a "oh, there's my buddy" reaction. Right after Randy's growl and run, who is shooting at him? Puck or Michael or both? Might not matter but if Michael was shooting at him, it definitely doesn't seem like he's expecting to talk.

I couldn't be sure, but did the guys in the truck get jumped too? I thought I heard the .50 firing as Michael was racing back to the truck after leaving Puck. And then someone yelling "Contact! Contact!" Was that Puck fighting regulars or Muldoon/Carl fighting some outside?

Oh, and more on Z planning, Kc drives the point home that they have seen nothing but loners out and about when they see anything at all. Sounds like a good way to avoid notice since, as Michael deduced in Ch36, being in large groups draws bad attention. The zombies may have realized the same thing would happen to them. Michael even talks about not using KODI on anything but groups.

I'll say it again, I loved this episode! If the rest of Ch39 is as good as this one, well... We are in for a helluva ride!
And thank you, Kc, for putting more of the Ft Irwin Kings of Comedy in here. Although I got very, very nervous when I thought Puck was about to check out on us and either turn zombie or turn dead.

Comedy Gold:
Robbins - "Hear that, Muldoon? Someone strong. Like a man. Like man muscles. Something you wouldn't know anything about."
Muldoon - "I'd be strong too if I had to carry around all that extra fat. What, do you deadlift 400 pounds every time you getting up outta bed in the morning?"

Puck - "Hey, uh, newbie."
Jay - "Yeah? It's Jay."
Puck - "Yeah, I don't care."

Keep it coming!

[scbubba]

Another thought just popped into my head re: "foolish" stuff on the part of Michael and Co.

They sure are making a ton of noise outside in this episode. First there is the flatbed with the behemoth on it and the indication that Tanya and friends will be doing work on it out there. If she follows the work she did on the Little One autopsy at Ft Irwin, that will include firing up a saw too.

The encounter with Randy and his buddies involved lots of gunshots and then a ton of noise from the stuck truck.

In the past, sound was an immediate attractor for Z's - even if they weren't that close initially. It also usually triggered calls from the Z's that heard it to more distant zombies.

But in 39-1 we don't have any indication that it attracts extra attention OR that the characters are concerned about the noise (meaning no dialog about how much noise there is or how it might attract something).

I bring all this up to point out that Michael and Co (and Michael the most?) are being much more lax and/or careless about wander the streets of post Z day LA. Kind of reinforced by Puck's rant about Michael rushing in after Randy and getting separated.

Well, that's what registered with me after listening again this morning....

[Grognaurd]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndddddddddddddd.. .................yup



so im thinking we should let this line of thinking go for the time being, id hate to predict what happens next with our bumbling crackpottery!!
:D

You know what they say about cracked pottery? You break it, you bought it. And, in the zombocolypse, buying the ( ant ) farm is a whole new of level of sucks to be you.

Next stop, Ingelwood. :tinfoil: it would not surprise me if Burt lived there. Saul's place was the ritz compared to where Burt lived. If Burt had cool survival stuff at his store, I bet he had a lot at his home. I would love a flashback from Burt with a blow by blow of him fighting out of ground zero.

Don't forget, his store was looted before he got there, something had to delay his progress there, the chaos of ground zero would do it nicely and who trapped him in the bathroom of Locked and Loaded? A dude from Raydon Labs...

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there.

About the behaviour of Randy's I started (and about an hour later recreated) a poll. You may want to vote HERE (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4907-Why-did-he-drop-it).

Best wishes!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

And another comment:

I really, really, really like the picture for chapter #39. It really frightens the shit out of me - not only because of the beast (maybe) under the cloth, but also because of the deadly cold atmosphere.

In connection with #39-1 it reveals the dark sides of the human survivors. I mean: Hello? The woman was not turned yet, but only in the process of turning. And what, if a medication like the one Saul received months ago would have made the difference? And then, although the red-shirted woman was neither a zombie (yet) nor dead (!!!), Tanya cut her open in order to check the shit out of her ... Holy shit ... What's going to happen next? Frankenstein is a kindergarden-cop compared with Tanya ...
Or in simpler words: Have the survivors or at least Tanya turned into a monster? Or do scientific causes justify any means?

Best wishes!
Liam

[scbubba]

And another comment:

I really, really, really like the picture for chapter #39. It really frightens the shit out of me - not only because of the beast (maybe) under the cloth, but also because of the deadly cold atmosphere.

In connection with #39-1 it reveals the dark sides of the human survivors. I mean: Hello? The woman was not turned yet, but only in the process of turning. And what, if a medication like the one Saul received months ago would have made the difference? And then, although the red-shirted woman was neither a zombie (yet) nor dead (!!!), Tanya cut her open in order to check the shit out of her ... Holy shit ... What's going to happen next? Frankenstein is a kindergarden-cop compared with Tanya ...
Or in simpler words: Have the survivors or at least Tanya turned into a monster? Or do scientific causes justify any means?

Best wishes!
Liam

I agree on the artwork. I actually didn't see it until this morning. Chilling!

I like your take on the dark side of Team Human (or at least Dr Doom over there). Someone else mentioned how quickly she went for the euthanasia on Amy (and maybe the slow turner back at the Colony) and how fast she jumped on slicing and dicing here. She even flat out says she wasn't trying to save the girl. Everyone else seems to be in the "kill for survival" mode, so it's tough to say that they are turning to the Dark Side. And Tanya (and maybe some others around her) probably feels that the (hoped for) ends justify the potentially deplorable means, but Evil has a way of creeping in like that. Baby steps to the Dark Side....

As I mentioned above, I'm not sure we have any Tanya journal entries at all in the show so far. No voice overs for sure. No times where she was the only one there. No flashbacks to her time in the Colony before breaking out to the Tower. No discussion of her isolation at Ft Irwin other than interactions with Michael. What other "main" character doesn't have any journal entries?

I feel like Tanya has a major role to play in this story. Perhaps one of the biggest behind #1 hero vs #1 villain (whoever they turn out to be....)

[LiamKerrington]

So, Tanya and Saul may end like this?

http://nowiknow.com/wp-content/uploads/luke_i_am_your_father.jpeg

Tanya: "I am your mother."
Saul: "Noooooo!"

[Bullethead]

"Normally its protocol just to shoot her too"

Jesus no decency anymore...at least wait until she turns Michael.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

And another comment:

I really, really, really like the picture for chapter #39. It really frightens the shit out of me - not only because of the beast (maybe) under the cloth, but also because of the deadly cold atmosphere.

In connection with #39-1 it reveals the dark sides of the human survivors. I mean: Hello? The woman was not turned yet, but only in the process of turning. And what, if a medication like the one Saul received months ago would have made the difference? And then, although the red-shirted woman was neither a zombie (yet) nor dead (!!!), Tanya cut her open in order to check the shit out of her ... Holy shit ... What's going to happen next? Frankenstein is a kindergarden-cop compared with Tanya ...
Or in simpler words: Have the survivors or at least Tanya turned into a monster? Or do scientific causes justify any means?

Best wishes!
Liam

Humanity is stagnating, not degenerating in WA. Tanya started by conduiting a Biopsy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopsy) which turned (pun!) into an autopsy. It worries me that there already exists a so-called "procedure coding system" concering biopsies:

ICD-10-PCS 0?D???X (without force),
0?B???X (with force)

And that is what scares me.

[FunkyDung]

I've lost track of all the sub-threads here, so hopefully nobody's already said this:

I'm starting to agree with the folks getting creeped out by Tanya. I didn't think much of it while listening, because I know what it's like to get a rush out of experimental progress in science. Now I'm wondering if perhaps she knows more about Z-day that she's said.

What we know:

1. She's a vet.
2. She's been bitten.
3. She's either turning slowly or not at all.
4. She gave drugs to Saul that were supposedly potent antibiotics.
5. She has iffy bedside manner.
6. She's getting a rush from her autopsies and experiments.

What if she worked for Raydon, or some associated or subsidiary company? What if she was doing animal experiments that somehow precipitated Z-day? What if she didn't just give antibiotics to Saul? What if she has some idea of how to stop or reverse the transformation/mutation effects of the "zombifying" vector (be it gas, virus, bacteria, whatever) because she helped develop (or at least test) it?

Did Tanya work for Weyland-Yutani Corporation? :squint:

[EpiEpee]

--tanya and her lab--
so in taynas lab, perhaps the most noticeable of information we got was the tests she ran on that hot girl. the numbers we are given are 195 at zero minutes, 375 at 20 minutes. so an increase of nine per minute. the figure we did not hear that probly would have been important was test number 3 at 22 minutes. at that rate typical reaction would be for this number to be 393. personally, I bet its more like 465. why? exponential growth... without getting all technical about my job, chemical reactions(seewhatididthere) in the dairy industry, primarily in the production of sour cream see that type of growth of cultures and "good bacteria" once the cultures reach a point where they have control,they essentially explode...its crazy looking in a tank of sour cream at eleven hours...then looking at twelve, hell you could probly stand there and watch it grow. want to try it at home? pour red bull in 2% milk...give it awhile//scary shit.

but the idea of tanyas unknown tests, along with my obsession with the ant thing led me down a road to find this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anion_gap

which leads to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketoacid

which, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carboxylic_acid

and so on....seeing a trend here yet?

im not 100% on any of this just yet. right now I don't feel like we have quite enough info to fully jump down this rabbithole. but im willing to hang my feet over the edge.



So, forgive me if I parsed out your post a bit incorrectly. Here's my take: The anion gap is not what is being reported because the numbers are just so dang high. But, ketoacids are produced in large quantities in diabetic ketoacidosis resulting from....a hyperglycemic state.

Also, 3 notes about formic acid. One, it is the byproduct of methanol (moonshine/wood alcohol) metabolism that causes blindness. But, you wouldn't see the cloudiness in the eyes from the way formic acid causes blindness, unlike cataracts. Two, I think in the cases of poisoning, one of the key ingredients is a confined space, which we don't see with the turning zombies since they're usually out in the open. Three, I can't find confirmation quickly, but if what we're seeing is methanol or formic acid poisoning, neither of those would result in a hyperglycemic state, they would actually go in the opposite direction.

I guess my feet are dangling over this ledge too, but we'll see how the next couple of chapters play out.





I like your take on the dark side of Team Human (or at least Dr Doom over there). Someone else mentioned how quickly she went for the euthanasia on Amy (and maybe the slow turner back at the Colony) and how fast she jumped on slicing and dicing here. She even flat out says she wasn't trying to save the girl. Everyone else seems to be in the "kill for survival" mode, so it's tough to say that they are turning to the Dark Side. And Tanya (and maybe some others around her) probably feels that the (hoped for) ends justify the potentially deplorable means

To be fair, Tanya euthanized Amy after Michael was ready to shoot her. I interpreted that as her trying to take a more humane route for a required end, especially with someone who was still mostly human. Personally, I wonder if she didn't euthanize this girl off-screen. Unless she's gone really far over to the dark side, I think it would be difficult for a vet to intentionally cause unnecessary pain to any living/semi-living/not totally dead creature.

[Nex]

So my "jump to" conclusion is: this all (zombie disaster) happened because of either some disaster / intentional plan of one person at Raydon labs. Surprise me writers!

[nikvoodoo]

From Liam's poll: I like the idea of Randy using humans to do his dirty work.

I'mma just leave this here for you Mikey. Now figure out a cure. Probably not the case, but I love the idea.

[scbubba]

From Liam's poll: I like the idea of Randy using humans to do his dirty work.

I'mma just leave this here for you Mikey. Now figure out a cure. Probably not the case, but I love the idea.

Hmmm, so Randy would be working on the same line as Team Human? But for whatever reason Randy can't work on it directly - physical or mental or educational limitation or being watched too closely by Team Zed. So he needs to subtly drop off a key puzzle piece that he knows about that the humans don't. It looks like he is getting jumped by the humans and narrowly escapes the peril. The humans have a line on ....something.... without knowing that Randy is working with/for them.

Unless Michael does know! But I think Michael's reactions when seeing Randy so far have not been the friendliest. Could be keeping up the illusion, though. Take some shots at him but intentionally miss. Stay between Randy and Puck so Puck can't ventilate Randy's skull. Randy gets away but Michael tried.....

Aw crap. I just went Full Tinfoil, didn't I? :tinfoil:

[LiamKerrington]

Hmmm, so Randy would be working on the same line as Team Human? But for whatever reason Randy can't work on it directly - physical or mental or educational limitation or being watched too closely by Team Zed. So he needs to subtly drop off a key puzzle piece that he knows about that the humans don't. It looks like he is getting jumped by the humans and narrowly escapes the peril. The humans have a line on ....something.... without knowing that Randy is working with/for them.

Unless Michael does know! But I think Michael's reactions when seeing Randy so far have not been the friendliest. Could be keeping up the illusion, though. Take some shots at him but intentionally miss. Stay between Randy and Puck so Puck can't ventilate Randy's skull. Randy gets away but Michael tried.....

Aw crap. I just went Full Tinfoil, didn't I? :tinfoil:

Keep it spinning. This kind of storytelling is what I enjoy most, 'cause it is quite beyond the cliché, and still not too far of a stretch ...

[Arch_Will]

Aw crap. I just went Full Tinfoil, didn't I? :tinfoil:

only goes full Tinfoil when you mention aliens.. so i think we're sweet for now.

:tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil::tinf oil:

[HardKor]

And another comment:

I really, really, really like the picture for chapter #39. It really frightens the shit out of me - not only because of the beast (maybe) under the cloth, but also because of the deadly cold atmosphere.

In connection with #39-1 it reveals the dark sides of the human survivors. I mean: Hello? The woman was not turned yet, but only in the process of turning. And what, if a medication like the one Saul received months ago would have made the difference? And then, although the red-shirted woman was neither a zombie (yet) nor dead (!!!), Tanya cut her open in order to check the shit out of her ... Holy shit ... What's going to happen next? Frankenstein is a kindergarden-cop compared with Tanya ...
Or in simpler words: Have the survivors or at least Tanya turned into a monster? Or do scientific causes justify any means?

Best wishes!
Liam

The enthusiastic way Tanya's been going about her job studying the zombies is pretty damn disturbing. It's very easy to imagine her going off the deep end into mad scientist territory, but I'm not sure she's going to fall that far. We're Alive can be pretty damn dark and gritty, but it still falls pretty firmly into the idealism side of the sliding scale of idealism versus cynicism. We've never really seen the main characters go off the deep end for the sake of survival. So, unless there's a pretty big departure from this, I don't see Tanya being the one to take that leap.

Another thing, a couple of people here have latched onto the fact that the turning girl was still alive when Tanya started her vivisection, but I've been pretty convinced for awhile now that all the zombies are of the technically living zombie variety. They need to eat for survival and not just out of instinct (The starving zombies of Catalina), They appear to breath (or else Michael's chloroform wouldn't be nearly as effective), and they also appear to have a working circulatory system (they bleed out from wounds, the Little One Tanya dissected had an enlarged heart and blood vessels, etc.) So I'm not so sure that the fact that the turning red shirt was "alive" is any indication that she wasn't turned. But it's still concerning to say the least that Tanya was so willing to cut her up without a second thought about her being alive when it happened.

But now that I've got the idea of technically living zombies floating around in my mind, I can't help but imagine a scenario where Michael and company have TOWTM cornered and her comes back with a title drop of "We're Alive" and this whole thing takes a turn into I Am Legend territory.

[Witch_Doctor]

Dang! Day 2, Page 13 Post #124! You guys are busy. Not just short posts, either. Everyone is posting dissertations. I had to do a double take to make sure I didn't stumble onto a scientific journal. Worse of all, most all of this is way over my head. (Witch Doctor didn't do so well in Alchemy 101) But I'm exited.
All I got is Ants & Folic Acid. Folic acid an component of Vitamin B. Folic deficiency includes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folic_acid)
A lack of dietary folates leads to folate deficiency, which is uncommon in normal Western diets.[citation needed] A complete lack of dietary folate takes months before deficiency develops as normal individuals have about 500–20,000 µg[9] of folate in body stores.[10] This deficiency can result in many health problems, the most notable one being neural tube defects in developing embryos. Common symptoms of folate deficiency include diarrhea, macrocytic anemia with weakness or shortness of breath, nerve damage with weakness and limb numbness (peripheral neuropathy),[11] pregnancy complications, mental confusion, forgetfulness or other cognitive declines, mental depression, sore or swollen tongue, peptic or mouth ulcers, headaches, heart palpitations, irritability, and behavioral disorders. Low levels of folate can also lead to homocysteine accumulation.[7] DNA synthesis and repair are impaired and this could lead to cancer development.[7]

So, scavenge for those Flintstones Vitamins, this out break is over! Think I'm wrong? When readinG about folic acid on Wikipedia, I read, ' greek greek greek greek greek greek Aromatic greek greek." Yep, something aromatic. I don't know what that means but it's one of Redshirts (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/member.php?2716-Red-Shirt) favorite words. REDSHIRT!!! WHERE ARE YOU?

[7oddisdead]

So, forgive me if I parsed out your post a bit incorrectly. Here's my take: The anion gap is not what is being reported because the numbers are just so dang high. But, ketoacids are produced in large quantities in diabetic ketoacidosis resulting from....a hyperglycemic state.

Also, 3 notes about formic acid. One, it is the byproduct of methanol (moonshine/wood alcohol) metabolism that causes blindness. But, you wouldn't see the cloudiness in the eyes from the way formic acid causes blindness, unlike cataracts. Two, I think in the cases of poisoning, one of the key ingredients is a confined space, which we don't see with the turning zombies since they're usually out in the open. Three, I can't find confirmation quickly, but if what we're seeing is methanol or formic acid poisoning, neither of those would result in a hyperglycemic state, they would actually go in the opposite direction.

I guess my feet are dangling over this ledge too, but we'll see how the next couple of chapters play out.




To be fair, Tanya euthanized Amy after Michael was ready to shoot her. I interpreted that as her trying to take a more humane route for a required end, especially with someone who was still mostly human. Personally, I wonder if she didn't euthanize this girl off-screen. Unless she's gone really far over to the dark side, I think it would be difficult for a vet to intentionally cause unnecessary pain to any living/semi-living/not totally dead creature.

I completely agree...at least with the little bit of info I have. I don't have a clue what kind of tests tanyas running, I was simply following links....found that stuff fascinating as hell..

I guess the question at this point could be...is Tanya actually running a test we could/would/should recognize? Again..i have absolutely no medical background...so any guess I make is the same as anyone else..."guess's"

good work troubleshooting! We'll keep throwing stuff at the wall til something sticks!

[Hellbringer]

Wait. What? I think he's on to something. Didn't we already have Christmas?

GDI! This is what happens when I have to work late.... hold on, I'm still going through the posts before I say something about this.

[Hellbringer]

Ok, I'm caught up and saw no more references to the date...

Oh, love the episode, KC! (before I forget)

So we went from December 2009 to 1 March 2010, which by the way was an important day for me personally so I got a goose bump or two when I heard the date. Everyone is on their theories about the current situation, but....

I see a prime opportunity for a Christmas episode, to be released around the holiday season. I could hear it now... it'd be a flashback or throwback episode. Think about it; according to Michael, nothing really happened until four months later from the early December time frame. That leaves an ample hole to be filled with a holiday party (or two, if there's enough booze for a New Year's party as well). I'm not talking something horrific like the Star Wars Christmas special of the 70s, but something that could add even more depth to relationship building for any number of folks at the colony or at Dunbar. Okay, it's wishful thinking, I know.

Also, damnit Muldoon, step up a bit. I presume he's a "spot."


Oh, and when I heard Michael's description of Randy, I immediately thought of Moosjaw Bourdeau from Rock Band 2/3. 2748

[HardKor]

I see a prime opportunity for a Christmas episode, to be released around the holiday season. I could hear it now... it'd be a flashback or throwback episode. Think about it; according to Michael, nothing really happened until four months later from the early December time frame. That leaves an ample hole to be filled with a holiday party (or two, if there's enough booze for a New Year's party as well). I'm not talking something horrific like the Star Wars Christmas special of the 70s, but something that could add even more depth to relationship building for any number of folks at the colony or at Dunbar. Okay, it's wishful thinking, I know.



I can see it now: TOWTM shows up at the colony gates bearing gifts of rotting meat and dismembered body parts and then they all sit around exploring the meaning of "Unlife Day."

[FunkyDung]

I can see it now: TOWTM shows up at the colony gates bearing gifts of rotting meat and dismembered body parts and then they all sit around exploring the meaning of "Unlife Day."

I see an opportunity for TOWTM to do his best Grinch impression. Will his heart grow three times its original size? Hmm...

Datu, Randy
Dead Kalani
Welcome Christmas, Christmas Day...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_GwSN_tNN0

[Witch_Doctor]

I completely agree...at least with the little bit of info I have. I don't have a clue what kind of tests tanyas running, I was simply following links....found that stuff fascinating as hell..

I guess the question at this point could be...is Tanya actually running a test we could/would/should recognize? Again..i have absolutely no medical background...so any guess I make is the same as anyone else..."guess's"

good work troubleshooting! We'll keep throwing stuff at the wall til something sticks!

Does anyone else think that the machine she had Robins turn on is a mortician's aspirator? She was drawing blood rather quickly and it could explain the alarm expressed by Robins when she started to get sample #3. Of course it could be something she is using to test the blood samples.

[7oddisdead]

Does anyone else think that the machine she had Robins turn on is a mortician's aspirator? She was drawing blood rather quickly and it could explain the alarm expressed by Robins when she started to get sample #3. Of course it could be something she is using to test the blood samples.

I've been wondering about that. Perhaps we shouldn't pidgonhole ourselves into just looking at tests a doctor would do. Maybe we should think of it for what it is.

a vet
being a doc
in a mortuary

that opens it up a bit doesn't it?

[Storm]

I'm still kinda confused about Michael's little VO at the end of chapter 38. He says it'll be four months before they'd find anything... That would bring us to april 20.th-ish, not even close to where we actually are...

[LiamKerrington]

I'm still kinda confused about Michael's little VO at the end of chapter 38. He says it'll be four months before they'd find anything... That would bring us to april 20.th-ish, not even close to where we actually are...

Yeah. Righ. Now that you mention this ... Struck me as odd as well, but I lostz track due to the many different hot topics ...

Maybe #39-1 is just kind of an interlude, and we will see another, much smaller time-jump in #39-2, or #39-3 ...

[7oddisdead]

Yeah. Righ. Now that you mention this ... Struck me as odd as well, but I lostz track due to the many different hot topics ...

Maybe #39-1 is just kind of an interlude, and we will see another, much smaller time-jump in #39-2, or #39-3 ...

look at it this way..

surely Michael had to report something to CJ. knowing just how "plan a billion years in advance" she is...its likely that the time between the next meeting of mike and randy will come after researching the fuck out of raydon labs, the surrounding area/areas, any possible evidence of shrubbery, etc..actually probably the smart thing to do. those shrubs....tricky sumbitches..

(no shrubbery was harmed in the typing of this post...ficus trees however...sorry)

[Arch_Will]

or maybe Michael is just a bad timekeeper and speaks in Guestimates... in order to emphasise how long it feels since nothing happened.etc

[Malador]

So in two of the times that we have seen Randy he has grabbed a doctor and is hauling around chemicals, definitely seems like he has a higher agenda than just kill the survivors.

[FunkyDung]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Randy and Tanya knew each other before Z-day, perhaps even having a romantic relationship? :tinfoil:

[UndeadSweeper]

So in two of the times that we have seen Randy he has grabbed a doctor and is hauling around chemicals, definitely seems like he has a higher agenda than just kill the survivors.

The only issue with this idea. Is how Randy would known she was the doctor? It's not like she wear a badge or a sticker that said "I'm a Doctor". The only I can think that cue him is if she was wear a lab coat.

[UndeadSweeper]

look at it this way..

surely Michael had to report something to CJ. knowing just how "plan a billion years in advance" she is...its likely that the time between the next meeting of mike and randy will come after researching the fuck out of raydon labs, the surrounding area/areas, any possible evidence of shrubbery, etc..actually probably the smart thing to do. those shrubs....tricky sumbitches..

(no shrubbery was harmed in the typing of this post...ficus trees however...sorry)

It depend on the size of the shrubbery. Small and medium are easy to handle but large you need the 50cal.

[Grognaurd]

Let's have another look at Michael.

First he says his parents are alive, then he jumps all over Riley when we she asks about them. Later we find they died in a car crash. Did they? I only ask because we have really seen people go crazy when it comes to revenge. Scratch is the primary, but we CJ break character, Burt and Riley go off the deep end. I understand the blood lust, but looking for one person in Southerrn California with everything else going on. Michael sure goes crazy over Randy. Michael hates odd numbers in the field and he leaves his wingman. One IS an odd number, but it is sooo much worse.

Randy
He could be a good guy or a bad guy. I like the trap idea, but I also find it hard to believe Michael could make it out f the water works alone. He also yells Randy when recovering from his surgery. That is a pretty deep penetration of the subconscious to just have seen the name Randy on a techie uniform.

[FunkyDung]

Randy. He could be a good guy or a bad guy. I like the trap idea, but I also find it hard to believe Michael could make it out f the water works alone. He also yells Randy when recovering from his surgery. That is a pretty deep penetration of the subconscious to just have seen the name Randy on a techie uniform.

I agree. I still think they might be estranged siblings.

[LiamKerrington]

The only issue with this idea. Is how Randy would known she was the doctor? It's not like she wear a badge or a sticker that said "I'm a Doctor". The only I can think that cue him is if she was wear a lab coat.

Maybe he did not need to know her. Don't forget how well them zombs smell shit everywhere. Since Tanya has to do a lot with bruises, woundings, especially medication, she could or even would have a distinct smell - maybe something we as humans wouldn't recognize, but zombs with the nose-skills of dogs?
And then: Randy seems to belong into the category of smart-ones, if not the Ink-category. So he would not only recognize the distinct smell, but understand its meaning ...

[UndeadSweeper]

Maybe he did not need to know her. Don't forget how well them zombs smell shit everywhere. Since Tanya has to do a lot with bruises, woundings, especially medication, she could or even would have a distinct smell - maybe something we as humans wouldn't recognize, but zombs with the nose-skills of dogs?
And then: Randy seems to belong into the category of smart-ones, if not the Ink-category. So he would not only recognize the distinct smell, but understand its meaning ...

You are right that he is a different category but I think he at Ink-category.

He has the same speed, can avoid being shot, can setup trap and can use thing to his advantage.

[Witch_Doctor]

Going along the lines of Riley's Sex and the Modern Zombie Theory, the zombies' super scent sense could have detected Tanya ovulating.

OR

Even simpler, she was the only one outside when they came to snatch someone.

[UndeadSweeper]

Going along the lines of Riley's Sex and the Modern Zombie Theory, the zombies' super scent sense could have detected Tanya ovulating.

OR

Even simpler, she was the only one outside when they came to snatch someone.

I'm think the latter as well. Randy could just be the Star-scream of the Zombie army.

[Witch_Doctor]

Going along the lines of Riley's Sex and the Modern Zombie Theory, the zombies' super scent sense could have detected Tanya ovulating.

OR

Even simpler, she was the only one outside when they came to snatch someone.

My third option didn't show up for some reason. It is, perhaps they could smell her previous exposure from her bite by the slow turner.

[Gooer]

Oh, man RAYDON LABS!!!! Thats a blast from the past.......of season 1....... Wonder what this mysterious chemical is......

[Gooer]

I remember in Season 2 that CJ sent a certain Randy off to the waterworks......Maybe its the same one....?

[Kc]

There will be no Christmas episode...
http://cdn.blog.mrm.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/grinch.jpg

Oh, and:
http://mle.mymiddleearth.com/files/2013/07/aint-nobody-got-time-for-that.png

[FunkyDung]

There will be no Christmas episode...

Bummer. What if there was a contest for fan-submitted Christmas episode scripts? Perhaps the winning script could be turned into a mini-episode that wouldn't have to be canonical - just something silly and fun. :)

[Kc]

Bummer. What if there was a contest for fan-submitted Christmas episode scripts? Perhaps the winning script could be turned into a mini-episode that wouldn't have to be canonical - just something silly and fun. :)

Honestly, I don't really do anything out of canon for this stuff. The only thing close has been the "trick" adverts in the beginning of each episode. If someone were to write a good one of those, I definitely would consider producing it.

But producing others writing my characters doesn't fit for me.

[UndeadSweeper]

Honestly, I don't really do anything out of canon for this stuff. The only thing close has been the "trick" adverts in the beginning of each episode. If someone were to write a good one of those, I definitely would consider producing it.

But producing others writing my characters doesn't fit for me.

Witch-Doc, Nik,Osiris and scbubba get on it! Z Sniper, you are the supervisor. But don't tell Brit or you know who will need to be in it.

[pmchawk]

A funny "trick ad" could be nurse Brit advertising for her "college" and how well they prepared her for the work force as a nurse.

[scbubba]

There will be no Christmas episode...

Oh noes!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUDntpV_HdQ

[pmchawk]

Let's have another look at Michael.

First he says his parents are alive, then he jumps all over Riley when we she asks about them. Later we find they died in a car crash. Did they? I only ask because we have really seen people go crazy when it comes to revenge. Scratch is the primary, but we CJ break character, Burt and Riley go off the deep end. I understand the blood lust, but looking for one person in Southerrn California with everything else going on. Michael sure goes crazy over Randy.

This is why I think Micheal was adopted 1 set of parents died in a car crash the others were alive when everything hit the fan. Randy I'm guessing was his adopted parents kid, probably younger then MC.

I'd guess the parents who raised him died in the car crash, and his bio parents gave him up so he has no connection to them. He would be an only child since randy isn't truly his brother. They were probably close as kids but drifted apart after Micheal found out he was adopted (M probably struggled to deal with the fact he was adopted). He probably has regrets for turning his back on randy so he doesn't want to give up on him and is probably the sole reason he thinks there could be a cure.

[Witch_Doctor]

This is why I think Micheal was adopted 1 set of parents died in a car crash the others were alive when everything hit the fan. Randy I'm guessing was his adopted parents kid, probably younger then MC.

I'd guess the parents who raised him died in the car crash, and his bio parents gave him up so he has no connection to them. He would be an only child since randy isn't truly his brother. They were probably close as kids but drifted apart after Micheal found out he was adopted (M probably struggled to deal with the fact he was adopted). He probably has regrets for turning his back on randy so he doesn't want to give up on him and is probably the sole reason he thinks there could be a cure.

Then Michael raises Randy's son while Victor and Kelly raise the twin sister and twenty tears later... Nah! I'm gonna stick with your idea. It does make things fit into place nicely. I like this.

[7oddisdead]

Not sure if this ones been thrown out there before.

Michaels parents die in car crash..randy was the other driver

dunno, first connection I made off the top of me head...i don't know that the animosity would be there like that if they were siblings....not in that fashion at least.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

I have to admit that the formaldehyde thing troubles me. Why does Randy carry such a small quantity of it? If Randy is linked to Raydon Labs and somehow managed to remain some of his intelligence, why does he transport it in such an amateurish way? I mean, there are some quite explicit transportation guidelines such as http://water.usgs.gov/admin/memo/policy/wrdpolicy93.044.html. So, Randy's health might have slightly deteriorated since we last saw him.

Nevertheless, thin foil time: maybe the formaldehyde solution is used by TWOWTM as a carrier as part of a catalyst chain process to create his special zombies. Pure speculation.

[Kc]

This is why I think Micheal was adopted 1 set of parents died in a car crash the others were alive when everything hit the fan. Randy I'm guessing was his adopted parents kid, probably younger then MC.

I'd guess the parents who raised him died in the car crash, and his bio parents gave him up so he has no connection to them. He would be an only child since randy isn't truly his brother. They were probably close as kids but drifted apart after Micheal found out he was adopted (M probably struggled to deal with the fact he was adopted). He probably has regrets for turning his back on randy so he doesn't want to give up on him and is probably the sole reason he thinks there could be a cure.

His parents are dead, and he wasn't adopted. He just didn't want to get all warm and fuzzy with everyone early on. It wasn't their business.

Not to discourage discussion, but just wanted to let you know.

[FunkyDung]

His parents are dead, and he wasn't adopted. He just didn't want to get all warm and fuzzy with everyone early on. It wasn't their business.

Hmm... Perhaps the reason Michael seems to have a personal interest in Randy is that he was somehow responsible for his parents' death. Would fit my estranged brother theory.

[7oddisdead]

Thats what I said.

[Hellbringer]

There will be no Christmas episode...
http://cdn.blog.mrm.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/grinch.jpg

Oh, and:
http://mle.mymiddleearth.com/files/2013/07/aint-nobody-got-time-for-that.png

wishful thinking.... you gotta give me that at least.

[Wicked Sid]

I really doubt that it's going to be a whole "It's small world" situation. Michael could just be vindictive, as Randy could've been an asshole in the depot.

Picture this:

"After I saw the behemoth, I knew it was over. My only hope... was Randy. Him, in a room on the other side of the hall. We watched each other intently as the steps became louder, each stomp followed by heavy breathing. Only one of us was going to get out alive, at least I thought that's what would happen anyway. I had to use him as a distraction. I know it seems horrible but it was the only way."

"I break eye contact, looking for a way out. Randy bolts, his boots hitting the grating, drawing the big one's attention. I followed in suit, seeing a doorway near to where I last heard Randy's steps. I made it through the door as he grabs my arm, I pull and pull but he wouldn't let go. The behemoth found us and swung, smashing Randy against the door and breaking my arm. I made my way out and decided to forget that there was anyone else in the depot."

"Well, until he came back at least."

[7oddisdead]

I really doubt that it's going to be a whole "It's small world" situation. Michael could just be vindictive, as Randy could've been an asshole in the depot.

Picture this:

"After I saw the behemoth, I knew it was over. My only hope... was Randy. Him, in a room on the other side of the hall. We watched each other intently as the steps became louder, each stomp followed by heavy breathing. Only one of us was going to get out alive, at least I thought that's what would happen anyway. I had to use him as a distraction. I know it seems horrible but it was the only way."

"I break eye contact, looking for a way out. Randy bolts, his boots hitting the grating, drawing the big one's attention. I followed in suit, seeing a doorway near to where I last heard Randy's steps. I made it through the door as he grabs my arm, I pull and pull but he wouldn't let go. The behemoth found us and swung, smashing Randy against the door and breaking my arm. I made my way out and decided to forget that there was anyone else in the depot."

"Well, until he came back at least."

nice. With one exception.

how would he have known randys name in that scenario

;)

[Wicked Sid]

Obviously Michael's omniscient. Duh.

[7oddisdead]

Alright, I'll give ya that one :)

[FunkyDung]

I really doubt that it's going to be a whole "It's small world" situation. Michael could just be vindictive, as Randy could've been an asshole in the depot. Picture this... "

Wow. Impressive. I could hear Michael's voice in my head the whole time I read it. Well done!

[7oddisdead]

The only thing that brings me back to the "its a small world" thing is, up to this point....it has been. Think of all the connections between people that already exist and its hard to rule out one more.

plus LOST did it.

[FunkyDung]

...plus LOST did it.

Ooh...Low blow. ;)

[7oddisdead]

Not from me it isn't

*sigh*

LOST did everything right, until the last season...

[Wicked Sid]

The only thing that brings me back to the "its a small world" thing is, up to this point....it has been. Think of all the connections between people that already exist and its hard to rule out one more.

This is actually a really good point. Gives me more to think about.

[Red Shirt]

I don't know what that means but it's one of Redshirts (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/member.php?2716-Red-Shirt) favorite words. REDSHIRT!!! WHERE ARE YOU?

Here I am! Let's see if I can still rock this like a hurricane (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJVJ140CdHQ). Confessions below, I'm just going to jump into the meat and 'taters:

So let me just start out by saying that I think my neighbors think I'm crazy. I was out in the front yard Monday afternoon, cutting the grass and listening to WA. When Michael dropped the Raydon Labs bomb at the end... I exclaimed SONOFABITCH! rather loudly aaannnd heads turned across the street. :o


Did he - as some of us theorize - act based on his own agenda?

It would seem that there very well could be an unusual parallel between the humans and zombies... early on, we witness Randy acting on his own with his own zombie posse during the kidnap of Tanya. Later he is seen dutifully standing at TOWTM's right hand as his lieutenant during the Colony siege. More recently, we see Randy once again seemingly operating outside of TOWTM's guidance, this time solo. We've discussed the nature and possibility of zombie factions with the (failing) puppet master theme of the Season 4 artwork... With the theories here that not only is Randy is a Smart One, he may also have his own agenda, it struck me today that Randy is playing Scratch to TOWTM's Durai.

I'm very curious to know what the numbers represent that Tanya was counting off... what the unit of measure is. Counts of parts per(x), total, of what? Antibodies? Saturation levels? What did she learn during the four month jump cut... I recall that during her "stay" at Irwin she was not able to discern a difference between human and zombie blood. I found this reference (http://www.bloodbook.com/ranges.html) chart of what is/can be tested for in blood work. It seems like there may be some promising leads buried in there.

I'd also like to echo the sentiments that she certainly seems to have gone a bit mad scientist on us. Harkening back to Grognaurd's (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4714-Wnd-55&p=63113&viewfull=1#post63113) theory that the zombies aren't learning to speak, we are learning to understand them, obliquely suggesting that we are already infected... I'd like to go ahead and throw on the good ol' foil hat and suggest that Tanya is starting to succumb to the zombie infection... only she's a smart one and it is expressing as the excitement for the macabre and the drive for the experimentation to figure out the zombie infection.

Jeez people, this has probably got to be the heaviest chapter thread since I joined the forums, Wow. Sooo many links to follow and read up on.
Not quite sure where I fall on Formic Acid and the formaldehyde yet... so much to digest there.


Then I thought about this....
http://i.imgur.com/xOWZ6Bk.jpg

You see, everywhere in the country, when you loose your khakis, you have no pants on. But in Boston when you lose your khakis, you need to call a taxi to get home. :D

<confession>
I feel badly that I haven't gotten back in here sooner. I have to admit that I can be a bit flaky and easily distracted sometimes... lately it's been kinda "a thing." Being utterly stumped and stymied by TOWTM et al. ain't helping either... (Nor is internet stuff. "Imma get on WA after work and post some stuff and... *thump* nope, internet.)
I have at least now joined the 21st century and gotten a brand spanking new smartphone, having upgraded from a Motorola Razr. Not kidding about that. With it, I have been mostly following this thread, though I am hesitant to post with it, given the usual structure of my posts.
</confession>

[7oddisdead]

Here I am! Let's see if I can still rock this like a hurricane (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJVJ140CdHQ). Confessions below, I'm just going to jump into the meat and 'taters:

So let me just start out by saying that I think my neighbors think I'm crazy. I was out in the front yard Monday afternoon, cutting the grass and listening to WA. When Michael dropped the Raydon Labs bomb at the end... I exclaimed SONOFABITCH! rather loudly aaannnd heads turned across the street. :o



It would seem that there very well could be an unusual parallel between the humans and zombies... early on, we witness Randy acting on his own with his own zombie posse during the kidnap of Tanya. Later he is seen dutifully standing at TOWTM's right hand as his lieutenant during the Colony siege. More recently, we see Randy once again seemingly operating outside of TOWTM's guidance, this time solo. We've discussed the nature and possibility of zombie factions with the (failing) puppet master theme of the Season 4 artwork... With the theories here that not only is Randy is a Smart One, he may also have his own agenda, it struck me today that Randy is playing Scratch to TOWTM's Durai.

I'm very curious to know what the numbers represent that Tanya was counting off... what the unit of measure is. Counts of parts per(x), total, of what? Antibodies? Saturation levels? What did she learn during the four month jump cut... I recall that during her "stay" at Irwin she was not able to discern a difference between human and zombie blood. I found this reference (http://www.bloodbook.com/ranges.html) chart of what is/can be tested for in blood work. It seems like there may be some promising leads buried in there.

I'd also like to echo the sentiments that she certainly seems to have gone a bit mad scientist on us. Harkening back to Grognaurd's (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4714-Wnd-55&p=63113&viewfull=1#post63113) theory that the zombies aren't learning to speak, we are learning to understand them, obliquely suggesting that we are already infected... I'd like to go ahead and throw on the good ol' foil hat and suggest that Tanya is starting to succumb to the zombie infection... only she's a smart one and it is expressing as the excitement for the macabre and the drive for the experimentation to figure out the zombie infection.

Jeez people, this has probably got to be the heaviest chapter thread since I joined the forums, Wow. Sooo many links to follow and read up on.
Not quite sure where I fall on Formic Acid and the formaldehyde yet... so much to digest there.



You see, everywhere in the country, when you loose your khakis, you have no pants on. But in Boston when you lose your khakis, you need to call a taxi to get home. :D

<confession>
I feel badly that I haven't gotten back in here sooner. I have to admit that I can be a bit flaky and easily distracted sometimes... lately it's been kinda "a thing." Being utterly stumped and stymied by TOWTM et al. ain't helping either... (Nor is internet stuff. "Imma get on WA after work and post some stuff and... *thump* nope, internet.)
I have at least now joined the 21st century and gotten a brand spanking new smartphone, having upgraded from a Motorola Razr. Not kidding about that. With it, I have been mostly following this thread, though I am hesitant to post with it, given the usual structure of my posts.
</confession>

wow, guys look who made it! (yells at all the yellow, theory guys) glad to have you on board!

so a lot to get through, eh? well lets break it down like this..

Randy as a zombie

I like the idea of randy having his own agenda, by doing so you create yet another “anti-hero” within the story. Randy playing the subordinate with a desire for the endgame to happen sooner –v- later seems to fit the bill nicely. Not so much that he is turning on his fellow biters, or looking for a cure himself…more like. “you fuckers are having a hard time figuring this stuff out…heres a hint”

Randy as a human

The last two pages of posts have been mostly about michaels relationship with randy. While I agree that the notion of Michael knowing randy from before is a bit of a stretch…its really not that far out of left field when you consider JUST HOW DAMN INTERLOCKING THE MAJORITY OF THE CHARACTERS BACKSTORIES ARE. (im okay, really). I put forth earlier tonight the idea of randy somehow being involved in mikes parents car crash (drunk driver,perhaps?) and while I like that idea, logistically it may or may not work(I forget where he said his parents lived). But, it’s the sort of connection that both fits within the story well and explains the added animosity Michael has for randy.

Randy as a zombie II

Another road we could travel is randy leaving Michael behind at the waterworks much the same way TOWTM did CJ at the other tower. The only zom that we are aware of in that scene was the behemoth and the one they shot. I doubt the one regular left standing would have been there had randy been human still. Call me crazy but I feel like if the behemoth would've got ahold of randy, or Michael for that matter…there wouldn’t be much left to turn. I personally feel confident that randy was turned pre-encounter at waterworks.

Tanyas numbers

Im still puzzling over these as well. Thus far ive turned over nothing, but one thing that does strike me as odd is why would she want to open her up right at the moment of turning? Perhaps to witness physical changes to some internal organ? That could perhaps point us in the right direction. Ive found some random stuff on the kidneys that sounds interesting..but nothing good enough to report. Im thinking the numbers could be ppm or ppb. Considering they don’t add up on any other level.

Tanyas turning

Im sorry, but I just don’t see what the fuss is about. I mean hats off to Shirley for playing the role of an obsessive literally, perfectly…but to that’s all this is. Imagine if you gave someone who was obsessed with scrapbooking access to every moment in their life as a photo, or every movie stub they ever bought? Sure, to us her behavior may seem a bit crazed…but, to each his/her own.

Formic acid

My ant obsession when it comes to this story is pretty obvious. But I see it simply as a plot device. The idea of randy carrying around a couple jars of formic acid could be as simple as this; A: he could be using the stuff for basically “curing” his meat. Or B: it could be laying a clue as said above for our “good guys” to find. The idea of the undead bodies(zombies) somehow precessing, or being altered by formic acid is waaaaayyyyy out in left field…that’s why I like it. But im realistic enough to recognize that its simply a way of explaining something we cant grasp yet. If your trying to explain something to someone and they have no clue what the hell your talking about most of us use other, simplier examples that they DO understand…then we bite them on the neck.  riiight?

Tying it all together

Basically, if I was writing this story(and THANK HEAVENS IM NOT) I would…
Have my good guys looking for clues and finding nothing.
Have a character on the enemy side who’s loyalties are somewhat questionable in the right place at the right time.
Have that guy/gal be someone from one of the good guys past so it’s a recognizable face
Have “bad guy with an agenda” there because he wants all this to end…either way.
Have “BGWA” drop a clue for the good guys to find…while also reminding them that they’re getting sloppy.
Boom…things actually happen.

Whew, yea…massive posts this episode is right…I think we all have just been waiting for this shit to happen though…and welcome to the real world of mobile posting redshirt…reminds you that computers…they aint SO bad after all.

Todd out

[Grognaurd]

Formic Acid

The stuff stinks. I think it was Randy's version of the sweat bottles. We hear "Acid" and we think super nasty face melting stuff. Vinegar is an acid, but I do not think he is using ad as food flavor. We hear the bottles bounce around the alley like they get kicked or knocked over. Definetly not a smash. Maybe a tripwire? /Shrug. Then a bunch of biters 1.0 show up. This is interesting, it is the first time in a long while they have been encountered as a pack of wufs.

:tinfoil:
Up until now we hear the ominous moan/roar that calls them. This is different.

I also found it interesting that we hear a murder of crows sound off and a bunch of biters show up.

[scbubba]

Hey Red Shirt! Good to see you in here and Welcome to the future with the new phone... :)


With the theories here that not only is Randy is a Smart One, he may also have his own agenda, it struck me today that Randy is playing Scratch to TOWTM's Durai.

That's a great thought about how Randy and TOWTM might be interacting. I keep going back and forth on whether Randy is on Team Ink or Team Randy. Or Both? Either way, I think Randy has an agenda but I'm not sure if it is pro-human or anti-Ink.


I'm very curious to know what the numbers represent that Tanya was counting off... what the unit of measure is. Counts of parts per(x), total, of what? Antibodies? Saturation levels? What did she learn during the four month jump cut... I recall that during her "stay" at Irwin she was not able to discern a difference between human and zombie blood. I found this reference (http://www.bloodbook.com/ranges.html) chart of what is/can be tested for in blood work. It seems like there may be some promising leads buried in there.

I'd also like to echo the sentiments that she certainly seems to have gone a bit mad scientist on us. Harkening back to Grognaurd's (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4714-Wnd-55&p=63113&viewfull=1#post63113) theory that the zombies aren't learning to speak, we are learning to understand them, obliquely suggesting that we are already infected... I'd like to go ahead and throw on the good ol' foil hat and suggest that Tanya is starting to succumb to the zombie infection... only she's a smart one and it is expressing as the excitement for the macabre and the drive for the experimentation to figure out the zombie infection.


This episode has got me questioning so many things about who knows what and who has an agenda. We've known that Michael is very secretive about some things and Randy's appearance is bringing that to the fore. Tanya's exuberance at someone else's death could be, as, 7odd pointed out, an obsessive personality being acted perfectly. It could also indicate that Tanya has her own agenda and a store of info that she's keeping to herself. I pointed out before how I don't think we have any evidence that Tanya has a journal or that her journal entries are included with all the rest. As obsessed as she is with documenting her work with the video cam (autopsy on #2 + the work on red shirt girl in 39-1) and her push to get all the info recorded from all the other journals, it seems odd that we would not have anything on her journaling.

You know she's recording information.... but what and where and why not share it? As others brought up earlier in this discussion, she moved out of LA for "a great opportunity" (claimed to be an ER vet clinic) but she didn't go so far as to not be able to get LA easy enough. Could she have been working with someone/company involved with the start of the Z?

Her training and work as a vet gives her enough medical background to do some kind of work with testing subjects/drugs/chemicals/etc on living organisms, maybe even humans. Maybe as a vet she is also a hard core animal rights/PETA type who thinks that since people test stuff on animals it's ok to turn the tables and do some tests on people (ok, maybe just bad people like prisoners or something). If this is the case, she may have some background in what happens when people are exposed to whatever this is. LO #2 may have surprised her because it was something that she didn't expect to see because of someone else meddling with the "normal" turning thus her surprise at what it looked like outside and inside.

tl;dr

I'm thinking Tanya's backstory is missing some really big sections, she is withholding a ton of information, and she may be involved with the origins of the outbreak.

[Witch_Doctor]

His parents are dead, and he wasn't adopted. He just didn't want to get all warm and fuzzy with everyone early on. It wasn't their business.
Not to discourage discussion, but just wanted to let you know.

I must say that I'm relieved. It would have been intriguing but too soap opera-y.

[Arch_Will]

Obviously Michael's omniscient. Duh.

cant be if he couldn't read Pegs :P

[Guts Malone]

The red shirt always dies... give it time

[Elisa]

I really doubt that it's going to be a whole "It's small world" situation. Michael could just be vindictive, as Randy could've been an asshole in the depot.

Picture this:

"After I saw the behemoth, I knew it was over. My only hope... was Randy. Him, in a room on the other side of the hall. We watched each other intently as the steps became louder, each stomp followed by heavy breathing. Only one of us was going to get out alive, at least I thought that's what would happen anyway. I had to use him as a distraction. I know it seems horrible but it was the only way."

"I break eye contact, looking for a way out. Randy bolts, his boots hitting the grating, drawing the big one's attention. I followed in suit, seeing a doorway near to where I last heard Randy's steps. I made it through the door as he grabs my arm, I pull and pull but he wouldn't let go. The behemoth found us and swung, smashing Randy against the door and breaking my arm. I made my way out and decided to forget that there was anyone else in the depot."

"Well, until he came back at least."


This is awesome. Maybe Michael met up with Randy when he tried to run away from the Behemoth once shit hit the fan in the waterworks and he go separated from Datu, Riley and Angel.

Question is Randy the ex SWAT guy from CJ's tower?

[lr42186]

Something I noticed as far as Randy's secret superhero (well, superzombie) identity. KC refuted the whole adoption thing... But made no mention of the idea in the same post of Randy being Michael's brother. He could still be adopted (Randy, not Mike), a stepsibling, just not very close, or maybe they had some sort of falling out pre-outbreak... I dunno, it's just an idea. What do you guys think?

[Grognaurd]

Question is Randy the ex SWAT guy from CJ's tower?

No, he most likely was from CJs tower, but was called a techie by Sean

[7oddisdead]

Formic Acid

The stuff stinks. I think it was Randy's version of the sweat bottles. We hear "Acid" and we think super nasty face melting stuff. Vinegar is an acid, but I do not think he is using ad as food flavor. We hear the bottles bounce around the alley like they get kicked or knocked over. Definetly not a smash. Maybe a tripwire? /Shrug. Then a bunch of biters 1.0 show up. This is interesting, it is the first time in a long while they have been encountered as a pack of wufs.

:tinfoil:
Up until now we hear the ominous moan/roar that calls them. This is different.

I also found it interesting that we hear a murder of crows sound off and a bunch of biters show up.

yea, the crows bit was a clue...or was it KC f-ing with us? ;)

and about formic acid, by improved food I was reffering to the fact that it can be used break down (ferment) fresh flesh..mmmmm, tasty

look at it this way, it could be used for both the options we are talking about. the fact that the smell was in the air prior to mike and co entering the alley could be randy laying a "safe trail" for the other biters to follow. as we both know, a single ant can follow a trail its never taken before based on the pheromones laid down by the first ant to take that path. make those ants human sized....and I bet that's a stinky rail to follow. so I like the "sweat jar" idea, I just like it for different reasons.

the other nice thing about the broken bottles being formic acid is it ties the story back to the scene of Michael, saul, and angel sitting around talking about ants from season one. all of this..damn near everything we have talked about in this thread...makes sense within the confines of what we know. introducing a completely new idea to the story, with so many pieces that can be put together from what we have now...I just don't see it.

truthfully, if this goes in another direction, i'll be a bit surprised and apprehensive.

todd out

[Witch_Doctor]

yea, the crows bit was a clue...or was it KC f-ing with us? ;)
.
.
and about formic acid, by improved food I was reffering to the fact that it can be used break down (ferment) fresh flesh..mmmmm, tasty
.
.
todd out

:tinfoil:Wow, too bad you'd need more than two bottles to make all of those zombie bodies disappear.O_o Could have explained all of the missing zombies.:rolleyes:

[Grognaurd]

Yea, but ants do not really just follow one ant around. They really only start doing the train thing when it is reinforced. Even with the people, zombies do not come running with just a single person. Overload the scent of lots and lots of people and they swarm.

[7oddisdead]

Yea, but ants do not really just follow one ant around. They really only start doing the train thing when it is reinforced. Even with the people, zombies do not come running with just a single person. Overload the scent of lots and lots of people and they swarm.

you wont convince me otherwise. im sticking with my idea,(zombie trail) you stick to yours (zombie swarm jars)...rep for the winner.

[Grognaurd]

you wont convince me otherwise. im sticking with my idea,(zombie trail) you stick to yours (zombie swarm jars)...rep for the winner.

Nah, I think we are saying the same thing. A little bit is a zombie trail, while a lot of it is a zombie swarm. The biters stink on their own and that does leave a trai. But, the next ant that goes out of the colony does not follow the trail from one ant. However, if a lot of ants start taking the same path then they start chaining. I remember watching an old video where one ant will pick up another ant and carry it to food resource. Then, they each do it.

I listened to WA Fancast and they discussed that F and O could be Flourine and oxygen. Good point and maybe Randy was trying to expose them to a bit of ground zero. Nice idea, but I think it is ant trail, but I guess I differ from you that it can also function like a sweat jar.

Also, I said Formic Acid, but formaldehyde is the same basic concept. (H-C=O)- H or OH. In terms of calories it is cheap.

Maybe it is just random alleyway noise, but we hear stuff being knocked over before Randy drops the bag

[Witch_Doctor]

This story could take off, full steam ahead, if CJ sees the game spotter photo of Randy. Provided that Micheal doesn't hide it from her in order to cover up the fact that he went rouge and left poor ol Puck behind. I think the chemical bottles and Raydon Labs thing might be too much to not share with her, though.

Micheal was ready to talk about his arm but he's still hesitant to discuss Randy, so I can't guess how he's going talk about this. "Yeah, I had a funny feeling about this hippy zombie carrying a plastic bag. I was like, 'Yo, what's in the bag.' and he was like 'Arrrawwwgghh!' and then I was like, 'Come on, yo. I just want to see.' and he tried to pretend that it wasn't his bag and he was holding it for his cousin. Ain't nobody got time for that."

[Witch_Doctor]

Congrats Grog. Not sure when you got him.

2752

[Grognaurd]

Congrats Grog. Not sure when you got him.

2752

Thanks, it was earlier this week. I cheated, though. I just shot him again after NikVooDoo got him at range. 7odd gave me a shoutout, also. Now, we just have to figure out who is pulling Ink's strings and what is it that frightened the mallers.

Funny how we have heard of gatherers ( farmers ) scavengers and others in the colony story. Tanya is a researcher. Who are the stalkers and the hunters and what are they hunting? I think the family is older and more important than simply organized crime, but that's just me. Are they ancient protectors or trying to bring on the end of days?

[Witch_Doctor]

I think the family is older and more important than simply organized crime, but that's just me. Are they ancient protectors or trying to bring on the end of days?


Yeah, that's what I think too. Something about the rings. They're Borromean rings. Both in the chapter art and in Lizzy's description.

[scbubba]

Congrats Grog. Not sure when you got him.

2752

Woo HOO! Good shootin' Grog. But we gotta stay on this cuz we know it's never enough. Shoot him again!

[scbubba]

In the wake of 7odd & Grog talking about ant trails, I noticed that Puck very specifically mentions that humans can also follow a trail. In that same exchange I got the impression that the "biter funk" in the alley they walked down was particularly strong. Not sure if that indicates that it was an intentionally done thing by Randy et al. Or maybe that was an indicator that more zombies were there...

I wonder if the chemical and the typical biter smell are supposed to be intertwined? From Season 1, we are given info that regular Zs smell like shit and very strongly. One could say that it's the normal state of hygiene after a while. But I think it happens pretty quickly (no facts on this at the moment) and its a result of the change to Z. I say all that because I seem to recall that methane metabolizing is a big part of formic acid in the human body. And I think that the smell of methane leaving the human body could have a shit-like aroma.... But I'm not an expert on the chemistry so I may be way off on this.

[Grognaurd]

It is possible. Most animals make carbon dioxide instead of formic acid. Ants and some insects use it to communicate and sometimes in offense/defense. What is nice about it is that it is calorically cheap, only one carbon and does not waste nitrogen or sulfur.

[Footbutt]

can i just say that @ ~20min of 39-1, Puck's tirade against Michael, after Michael just starts heading after Randy without backup... is just fantastic. the tone, the words, the delivery was just great. really made the entire chapter, for me.