Will Scratch join Michael

[alexcadtek]

I was thinking if Riley and burt dont get to scratch first, LOL I wanted to see what you guys thought of this. You think if Michael goes to kill the Zombies will he ever join Scratch, becasue she was trying to do the same that Michael is trying to do right now, but the Mallers where doing it way before Michael did, so do you think the Mallers actually have more INTELL on how to do it, and will Michael and her meet up some time in the future and join with her for that one cause?????????

[turbo]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I wouldn't be surprised if something like this happens.

[Vlarken]

I'm of the mind that there is so much bad blood between these groups that 'the enemy of my enemy' might not be enough to get them working together. At least, that's what I hope. Also a big factor for Michael not joining up with her would be the fact that her biggest goal is to kill Pegs. How could he, in good conscience, work towards a common goal when he knows that at the end of it, she'll go right back to trying to murder her?

[Witch_Doctor]

OH, I hope not. It pains me as a human being to say this, but we re talking about a fictional character, so maybe it's OK. I want Scratch to get some serious comeuppance. I'm almost certain there will be a Scratch redemption event. The old villain-turned-reluctant-hero type. We've seen how we can be moved to have sympathy for her when she tells Lizzy about her rape and maiming. I think that won't be the last of Scratch's vulnerable human side that we see. Also, she made a very good point when she and Latch first visited the Tower on behalf of Durai, "Out here i would be a resume builder." She has the guts to do the dirty work.

If she does join Micheal, I only hope that after she helps saves the day that Burt or Riley or CJ or even one of Grog's crows plucks her eyes out or something while not realizing that she's on their side now. KC, don't go making evil characters likable after I've invested so much hatred for them. :hammer:

[LiamKerrington]

Really, really, really hard to tell ...

Face Value: No chance.
But back then, when Scratch had a huge group of minions around her and when she had the structures to rely on, she was in the position to make any decision as indepenedent as it could get. Now, with only a handful of Mallers (maybe just one???) she is in a very inferior position. She has the will to survive; and she is kind of a mastress of exploiting situations as much in her favor as possible - so, she has a very good understanding of her situation and a quite impressive intuitive skill in assessing the opponent.

So, I would say the joining of forces would be started by her (with all kind of mischievous secret agendas possible); Michael, I guess, won't start anything. And the Colonists remembering the Mallers as well as especially CJ having her special relation with Scratch won't cooperate as easily as Michael would, who - as I already said - won't start anything.
So, no: I don't think this will happen; it is way too unlikely considering the relation between Scratch and almost any other human survivor.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Grognaurd]

People pupu this, but Scratch etal were more worried about about what was in Dunbar than they were of the Zombie Outbreak. A zombie outbreak, Billions dead and the mallers are afraid that a prison guard or a SWAT guy might have survived at Dunbar drives their day to day operations. Something is wrong.

I do not know what it is, but there are still some major twists.

[Witch_Doctor]

You make a good point, Liam. Scratch sounds like an unhinged version of CJ. Micheal might be one of the few people who's not so unforgivably pissed off with Scratch to make a deal.

[Witch_Doctor]

People pupu this, but Scratch etal were more worried about about what was in Dunbar than they were of the Zombie Outbreak. A zombie outbreak, Billions dead and the mallers are afraid that a prison guard or a SWAT guy might have survived at Dunbar drives their day to day operations. Something is wrong.

I do not know what it is, but there are still some major twists.

They tell Kalani that they are more worried about what they (Dunbar) could do.

[Grognaurd]

They tell Kalani that they are more worried about what they (Dunbar) could do.

We should double check this. I think it was "be" not "do". Be is intrinsict. Do is a capability that may or may not happen.

Subtle, but important

[Witch_Doctor]

We should double check this. I think it was "be" not "do". Be is intrinsict. Do is a capability that may or may not happen.

Subtle, but important

Yeah, I was wondering if it was 'be' or 'do' when I wrote this. Oh, the hazards of writing from memory.

Just checked, Scratch says "be"




To be or not to be—William Shakespeare
To be is to do—Aristotle
To do is to be—Jean Paul Sartre
Doo be doo be doo—Frank Sinatra

[Grognaurd]

Yeah, I was wondering if it was 'be' or 'do' when I wrote this. Oh, the hazards of writing from memory.

Just checked, Scratch says "be"



/Cheers! At least we know what we are talking about. I hope it is not just another :tinfoil:

[Witch_Doctor]

I'm sure there is something to it. I just re-listened to Chapter 35/1 to see if there is any hint that they recognize each other. Nothing. Is it just me or do the lines written for Scratch make her sound like a character from a 1950s era movie? I keep expecting her to challenge someone to a rumble.

[Grognaurd]

I think there was a lot more going on in that fight than first meets the eye, so to speak. CJ is the first one we observe trying to kill the zombies by bleeding them out. Scratch tries to kill CJ by bleeding her out. Scratch has CJ's defense broken and I assume some sort of control hold. She does not thrust to the torso, she goes for the femoral artery.

Also, the view of the battle we get is Most likely from Burt and I think he is holding back information. Remember, we are supposed to believe there is a zombie outbreak, Scratch has time to break Latch out if prison on the west coast, cross back to East LA and steal the RPG before Burt gets to his store. Weird.

If Burt is hiding stuff, I do not think he would write Scratch called CJ the queen and Cj called Scratch a hunter.

[Osiris]

I couldn't see Michael joining forces with Scratch to beat back a few zeds. It would have to be an action that brought about the complete annihilation of every zombie shuffling. Moreover I can't see Scratch willingly joining forces with anyone. She's too chaotic, even though she's gettin' hammered in the groin by Victor on the reg.

[Vlarken]

She's too chaotic, even though she's gettin' hammered in the groin by Victor on the reg.


Nah, to quote Burt, she's got her brother for that.... Oh wait. :squint:

[Osiris]

Nah, to quote Burt, she's got her brother for that.... Oh wait. :squint:

Wow. Dude. That's messed up.

[Vlarken]

Wow. Dude. That's messed up.

I know... I kind of let go of human compassion in regard to Scratch. With the stuff that she does, I don't think she deserves any sort of sympathy.

[Witch_Doctor]

I couldn't see Michael joining forces with Scratch to beat back a few zeds. It would have to be an action that brought about the complete annihilation of every zombie shuffling. Moreover I can't see Scratch willingly joining forces with anyone. She's too chaotic, even though she's gettin' hammered in the groin by Victor on the reg.



Nah, to quote Burt, she's got her brother for that.... Oh wait. :squint:

Maybe she kept an Angel Lust souvenir from her brother, using her knife.

Dang, y'all just dragged me down to y'all level. (or pulled me up to it)

[7oddisdead]

Jeez...what did I just read?

I'll go ahead and throw this one out there, what if we get a situation where Michael is stuck out in the field and all the other guys(puck, Robbins etc) are dead?...bumps into scratch...what would happen then?

[Witch_Doctor]

I think there was a lot more going on in that fight than first meets the eye, so to speak. CJ is the first one we observe trying to kill the zombies by bleeding them out. Scratch tries to kill CJ by bleeding her out. Scratch has CJ's defense broken and I assume some sort of control hold. She does not thrust to the torso, she goes for the femoral artery.

Also, the view of the battle we get is Most likely from Burt and I think he is holding back information. Remember, we are supposed to believe there is a zombie outbreak, Scratch has time to break Latch out if prison on the west coast, cross back to East LA and steal the RPG before Burt gets to his store. Weird.

If Burt is hiding stuff, I do not think he would write Scratch called CJ the queen and Cj called Scratch a hunter.

I think we might actually be getting CJ's account of the fight. There is a scene of her and the un-named-soon-to-be-dead-girl outside of the hospital and inside of it outside of Burt's earshot.

As for the RPG, when do you think they got it. One of the Mallers (Tardust?) asks her about the 'thing' they got from (gun shop? Gun store safe? Old man's store?) I'm not sure what he called it but it might be important. If it was the safe then I think it would have been well after the outbreak. I doubt Burt would have kept that in the easy-to-access regular safe, but rather the super secret inner sanctum safe that nobody had the combo to. The thing that bugs me about it is that Burt tells Micheal the he had hoped the Mallers didn't have it. This very well could mean that he already knew the the RPGs were missing and was hoping that someone other than the Mallers had them. If that's the case then they could have been missing from the start, but why in the world would Burt keep them outside the super secret safe? What do make of this?

Also, I've never really been able to tell if Angel is being a jerk or if he's hiding something when he is so adamant about not helping Burt.

[Witch_Doctor]

Jeez...what did I just read?

I'll go ahead and throw this one out there, what if we get a situation where Michael is stuck out in the field and all the other guys(puck, Robbins etc) are dead?...bumps into scratch...what would happen then?

That depends. Are we still talking dirty about Scratch?

[7oddisdead]

That depends. Are we still talking dirty about Scratch?

that depends....will it involve slamming mikes arm in a door?

[Vlarken]

As for the RPG, when do you think they got it. One of the Mallers (Tardust?) asks her about the 'thing' they got from (gun shop? Gun store safe? Old man's store?) I'm not sure what he called it but it might be important. If it was the safe then I think it would have been well after the outbreak. I doubt Burt would have kept that in the easy-to-access regular safe, but rather the super secret inner sanctum safe that nobody had the combo to. The thing that bugs me about it is that Burt tells Micheal the he had hoped the Mallers didn't have it. This very well could mean that he already knew the the RPGs were missing and was hoping that someone other than the Mallers had them. If that's the case then they could have been missing from the start, but why in the world would Burt keep them outside the super secret safe? What do make of this?

Wasn't there a scene though, wherein Michael and Burt are discussing the RPGs and Burt says that he had a buyer coming for them before the outbreak? If that's the case, I think that would explain it being in an outer safe, instead of a more permanent one. I'm not entirely sure if that's exactly how the scene went though.



that depends....will it involve slamming mikes arm in a door?

...Kinky?

[LiamKerrington]

Jeez...what did I just read?

I'll go ahead and throw this one out there, what if we get a situation where Michael is stuck out in the field and all the other guys(puck, Robbins etc) are dead?...bumps into scratch...what would happen then?

This so much depends on so many factors ...
- What is the situation like?
- How well are they armed?
- Who recognizes whom first?
- Michael: How much "human" he will act?
- Scratch: Does she see opportunities for her personal goals?

I don't think in that situation there would be something like a clash of titans or a ll balls out ultra-death match Mortal Kombat style ... They would point guns at each other, but then both would start talking! That's what both really like to do ... Scratch is the evil guy teasing and testing the will of her opponent in order to make him uncautious and then strike him; and Michael always asks the Why-questions in order to assess a situation and find out what the options are, because Michael does not feel well with a situation boiling down to "there is no option like no option" ...

It would be totally different if Burt and Scratch would accidentally meet in the wild ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Grognaurd]

RE: Account
Good cach wih CJ's Account and we KNOW she has nothing to hide, lol.

RE: RPG
Burt said he had a buyer so it was in the front safe. Was it planned before the out-break or after? It is strange that the mallers would go to locked and loaded when it is so far away.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

I think the Mallers came along Locked and Loaded during one of their many scavenging runs - maybe on purpose, maybe just randomly.
You should not forget: Besides the Mallers the Dunbarians did scavenging runs all over the place with small car-convoys. So any store, police station, or point of interest, which held stuff survivors would need, was targeted by both groups (not to mention our poor fellas from the Tower). So quite soon each group would have had to spread through the city.
Locked and Loaded - I am not certain, is this kind of a franchise, a chain of shops in the US - might have been of general interest for any arms-affine group of survivors, because there you get different guns, different ammo, maybe other survival gear as well. With that in mind Mallers might have gotten there (as well as to any other arms-shop) on purpose just to grab the right stuff - as they did. And with cars and a group of armed survivors the distance between the Mall and Locked and Loaded might not have been so extraordinarily long.
I also think that the Mallers had a very good understanding about the spreading of the zombocalypse (check the Kalani backstory: the Mallers kept track of where (and when?) them zombs appeared; later we learn that the Mallers planned to nuke the Arena, so the plan for this already existed when Lizzy, Saul, and Burt took the tanker-rig, which again speaks in favor of a very well organized and thought through planning of the Mallers). So maybe they took this into account while planning their scavenging runs and raids. Again - no reason, not to go to Locked and Loaded ...

Just 2 more cents from me.
Best wishes!
Liam

[Grognaurd]

And lock picking a gun safe is such a common skill anybody could do it, right? And the mallers were so awesome at scavenging from all the gun shops in LA that Latch and Scratch were all out of ammo and they did it before Burt could get to his store to protect it.

Something is up

[Witch_Doctor]

I don't think in that situation there would be something like a clash of titans or a ll balls out ultra-death match Mortal Kombat style ... They would point guns at each other, but then both would start talking! That's what both really like to do ... Scratch is the evil guy teasing and testing the will of her opponent in order to make him uncautious and then strike him; and Michael always asks the Why-questions in order to assess a situation and find out what the options are, because Michael does not feel well with a situation boiling down to "there is no option like no option" ...

It would be totally different if Burt and Scratch would accidentally meet in the wild ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Perfectly thought out.
+1

[LiamKerrington]

And lock picking a gun safe is such a common skill anybody could do it, right? And the mallers were so awesome at scavenging from all the gun shops in LA that Latch and Scratch were all out of ammo and they did it before Burt could get to his store to protect it.

Something is up

Well, it's not like scavenging gunshops is what they do all the time. And only because Scratch was #2 back then, it seems that she had to stick with the "rations" of ammo given to her, just like anybody else.

But, yeah: It is not the first time that theories evolve around probable relations between Burt and (some of) the Mallers. So I won't challenge this. I just feel uncomfortable with something being so far back in the past that I have doubts that things so old will become relevant another time. the Locked and Loaded raid was important to establish the conflict between Burt and Scratch, when they first appeared. But else? We will see.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

Wasn't there a scene though, wherein Michael and Burt are discussing the RPGs and Burt says that he had a buyer coming for them before the outbreak? If that's the case, I think that would explain it being in an outer safe, instead of a more permanent one. I'm not entirely sure if that's exactly how the scene went though.


You are absolutely right! Burt says that is was in his safe and not his vault because a buyer was coming for it. Chapter 24 at 29 minutes.

[scbubba]

I think that Durai was pretty quick guy and good with the planning and organizing. So the Mallers got there stuff together quickly.
Gun shops would be a prime target for raids by anyone with the wherewithal to be out looking. Having a safecracker on the team, i would put him on the gun shop runs.

I agree with Liam above in that I think we needed a start to a brewing conflict between Scratch and Burt early on. We also needed the Mallers to have access to the RPGs. 2 birds with one safe crack.

Scratch HAD to be out of ammo at the time of that first meeting by the tanker or she would have probably blazed away at somebody before Burt's fancy shooting. That would have put one or more main characters down early on. Not good.....

Anyway, I'm moving over to the side that says the Family probably has more to do with the story than just tying in Scratch's story. What that is, I don't know. But it could get interesting. :)

[Grognaurd]

Well, it's not like scavenging gunshops is what they do all the time. And only because Scratch was #2 back then, it seems that she had to stick with the "rations" of ammo given to her, just like anybody else.

But, yeah: It is not the first time that theories evolve around probable relations between Burt and (some of) the Mallers. So I won't challenge this. I just feel uncomfortable with something being so far back in the past that I have doubts that things so old will become relevant another time. the Locked and Loaded raid was important to establish the conflict between Burt and Scratch, when they first appeared. But else? We will see.

Best wishes!
Liam

Sorry, I am a bit of a pit bull on the where the hell was Burt and how could Latch get there before he did as well as where the hell was Saul on the first night when they let Lizzy in as other people are about Michael's arm. Toss in the whole CJ tells Saul and victor that she, Glenn and Pete are busy.

Time and time again we see characters unable to respond to what I think are important events.

To Wit on night one
Everybody go to sleep with your doors open in case of emergency...
Michael yells Help.
Angel runs down, says he forgot the keys, runs back to his room and then to Michael. Then Saul's shows up. Was he too afraid or did he have to put on his facial makeup? He heard Michael yell, because we hear him respond verbally well before he shows up physically.

[LiamKerrington]

Sorry, I am a bit of a pit bull on the where the hell was Burt and how could Latch get there before he did as well as where the hell was Saul on the first night when they let Lizzy in as other people are about Michael's arm. Toss in the whole CJ tells Saul and victor that she, Glenn and Pete are busy.

Time and time again we see characters unable to respond to what I think are important events.

To Wit on night one
Everybody go to sleep with your doors open in case of emergency...
Michael yells Help.
Angel runs down, says he forgot the keys, runs back to his room and then to Michael. Then Saul's shows up. Was he too afraid or did he have to put on his facial makeup? He heard Michael yell, because we hear him respond verbally well before he shows up physically.

You, you have a good point about it. Maybe this is "just" a depiction of human flaws and failure. *g*
As for Burt:

Burt hid in his bathroom in order to avoid them zombs killing him. Although he is a gun-maniac, he also knows how to assess situations from a military or strategic point of view: plenty of zombs against one guy with a gun. Hiding in the bathroom helped him safe ammo; and he also accidentally covered in the smell of washin-room stuff, as it seems.
But he lost track of time. No food and only some water left he also started to fall un- or half-conscious. Just remember how Saul and Angel found him: Burt did not knock the door frantically and ask for being helped out; he was down and close to a serious medical situation. It may be only a shot; but I guess that the Mallers/ Latch showed up at about that time, close before Angel and Saul showed up. They took their chances and went away with all the good stuff.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

I wonder when did the opportunity arise for Scratch to start the jail break at Eastern Bay. I would have thought that the prisoners would have had a late start on the looting. I can see the prison guards abandoning the prison to protect loved ones when news gets out that TSHTF, but just when would that have happened and to what extent. So we have...


Outbreak begins
Out break spreads
LA realizes that TSHTF, everyone for themselves
Scratch jail breaks the Mallers
Mallers loot Burt's shop, across town
At some point Burt shows up AFTER all of this

[LiamKerrington]

At some point Burt shows up AFTER all of this

Ah, ok. I missed hav must this ... er ... must have missed this ...

[Grognaurd]

We can get complicated and have someone loot the store. Then, Burt shows up low on ammo and hides and the mallers come and loot the safe while Burt is passed out.

But it seems to me he would haul ass ad get to the store. There also does not really appear to be time for mob-rule looting. From Bell to the tower they find two survivors. No mobs. Inside the tower, Bill and Datu. A really dead dude with his throat torn out, a suicide, a zombie Cindy, one other zombie on the ninth floor(?).

Like Saul says, I do not get it, three (?) days and there is no one left in LA. I do not know if the mast majority of people just died where they were or reanimated and migrated underground or something.

We do hear lots and lots of thumps as they drive. Are those dead people? We hear the same thumps when Burt and Lizzy drive the tanker back to the tower and Lizzy says that running them over does not help the stink-factor. Gross, but I hope that the thumps we hear are bodies when Saul and Angel are driving. At least we then know that the people did not really go anywhere they just died in the streets.

[tlbro0]

If Scratch joins Michael, the reason for it must be huge. Also who does know that Pegs is the one that killed Latch? Only reason I could see a team up is so Scratch can get a clean shot.