Chapter 37-3: Balance of Power

[nikvoodoo]

Final chapter part for 37.

If you haven't done so make sure you wish many happy returns to the new Mr. And Mrs. Wayland!

[Monster mani]

Michael will flip out. Rilley will find out and either go ballistic and lash out. Or will turn into the incredible hulk and destroy us all.

[UndeadSweeper]

Hello and many blessings to Mr. And Mrs. Wayland!

[pmchawk]

Werd, congrats to the newly weds.

Riley freaks, they end up trying to sedate her and she punches Tanya in the mouth causing her to cut her hand. Then Riley turn b/c immune doesnt mean you can't be a carrier..

In all reality. Ooioooh crap. Balance of power, what did CJ say... Ummm. "Information is too valuable". So information is power. Finding out about Angel is just the start of the information flow. I feel confident in predicting the flow will go a couple directions, perhaps learning something we didn't know before *coughmichealsarmcough* in part 3.

[scbubba]

Werd, congrats to the newly weds.

Riley freaks, they end up trying to sedate her and she punches Tanya in the mouth causing her to cut her hand. Then Riley turn b/c immune doesnt mean you can't be a carrier..

In all reality. Ooioooh crap. Balance of power, what did CJ say... Ummm. "Information is too valuable". So information is power. Finding out about Angel is just the start of the information flow. I feel confident in predicting the flow will go a couple directions, perhaps learning something we didn't know before *coughmichealsarmcough* in part 3.

I like the idea of a Tanya "bite" and seeing if it causes someone to turn.... That would set this place on fire, fo sho!

I think Michael's arm will be several more chapters before resolution. With some key Randy info as well....

[LiamKerrington]

Hello and many blessings to Mr. And Mrs. Wayland!

Seconded.

And in #37-3 there might be enough bloodshed to keep up the dystopian theme of WA and the melancholy of the whole story - based on the picture for the episode.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Jannit]

Congratulations to the happy couple! May the saddest days of your future be no worse than the happiest day of your past.

[Merlin1274]

I can't WAIT!!!!! Bring it on KC.. Ready for Mikey to open up some Whoop Ass...

[Witch_Doctor]

As a married man, I can't help but to chuckle at the idea that KC's & Blair's wedding gives new meaning to the chapter title: The Balance of Power.

Cheers! :yay::excited::melt:

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hello everyone from my Spanish exile! I miss you all A LOT. I will have to wait until next monday to download the third part of chapter 37.

@Liam: In advance, I am on this particular island

[Grognaurd]

Sean called CJ "The Queen" in front of Kalani. We see that personality again. She may be able to plan, but she is no leader.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hello everyone from my Spanish exile! I miss you all A LOT. I will have to wait until next monday to download the third part of chapter 37.

@Liam: In advance, I am on this particular island - Mallorca, please do not facepalm me. :-)

[Jannit]

Riley vs Scratch is going to be amazing. That's pretty much the only thought I come away with at the moment. Time to go listen to it again!

[REZombie]

Wow.....great episode !

some unexpected stuff here for sure....changes my thoughts of how Scratch will meet her end...also wondering if the group is going to separate now... gotta listen to it again before i get in-depth here.....

and congrats to the newly weds !

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

And of course, best wishes to the newly weds!

[UndeadSweeper]

Not a filler eps! Man, that was some heavy stuff. I don't think Micheal and the crew will be staying. It probably going to be either all of us or none of us. They probably even lose their medical staff.

[Jannit]

Not a filler eps! Man, that was some heavy stuff. I don't think Micheal and the crew will be staying. It probably going to be either all of us or none of us. They probably even lose their medical staff.

I think we'll see some of the cast splitting up given recent developments.

It seems to be a given that Michael will follow Saul. There doesn't seem to be much reason for him to stay given CJ's leadership position.

I'm inclined to say Tanya would stay at the colony given the number of people that need her help. She doesn't seem to be the type to turn her back if someone is in need. However there is a BIG BUT that I need to add. If Saul has to leave, Lizzy is going to leave. I can't imagine Tanya would turn her back on her future grandbaby. Perhaps she'll leave for a while to help with the delivery then return to the colony.

Pegs will stay. What reason would she have to follow Saul and Michael?

Kelly will probably stay, too. She already left Michael once for greener pastures so why would she follow him this time? Doesn't seem likely to me.

[UndeadSweeper]

I think we'll see some of the cast splitting up given recent developments.

It seems to be a given that Michael will follow Saul. There doesn't seem to be much reason for him to stay given CJ's leadership position.

I'm inclined to say Tanya would stay at the colony given the number of people that need her help. She doesn't seem to be the type to turn her back if someone is in need. However there is a BIG BUT that I need to add. If Saul has to leave, Lizzy is going to leave. I can't imagine Tanya would turn her back on her future grandbaby. Perhaps she'll leave for a while to help with the delivery then return to the colony.

Pegs will stay. What reason would she have to follow Saul and Michael?

Kelly will probably stay, too. She already left Michael once for greener pastures so why would she follow him this time? Doesn't seem likely to me.

Micheal and his army crews are going, that may be the cause of the cover art? They taking the copter and could cause a big issue.


Under CJ, Pegs will probably never get a change to go after Scarface. And Burt is going too.

And don't think Kelly doesn't have any good memory of the colony, but I can't remember she apart of the original traveling group of the colony.

[Storm]

...Just...WOW!
I'm just wondering if this is the last we're going to se to CJ if all the main characters go to Dunbar... Maybe they return later only to find the colony in ruins or something. I actually wouldn't mind that. I can't see why we need her anymore (well, she still haven't given them the code for her safe containing all her notes... but they'll probably just BOOM the Lock or something...).
Of course the big question right now is... Did Michael say yes? I fear it, but... GRR, I don't know. Does he even know she just kicked out Saul and Victor? I don't think he does, and therefore he could just say yes. He might leave as soon as he finds out what she did... But well.
In either way the NeXT chapters are going to be awesome! :D

[clem131]

"you fucking crippled me"?! Seriously? CJ is officially my new most hated character.

[clem131]

I'd love to see how the Colons (not a typo) will react to their only doctor leaving because CJ kicked Saul out of the Colony.

[UndeadSweeper]

I'd love to see how the Colons (not a typo) will react to their only doctor leaving because CJ kicked Saul out of the Colony.

And don't forgot the army with the only weapon that can stop ALDO.

[Merlin1274]

I do not see Michael and the rest staying behind while Saul and Victor get the boot. I once liked CJ now I dislike her.. She is a Queen B.. I foresee them leaving her and the Colony behind and take over Dunbar. Burt and Riley will go on a Scratch hunt. But part of me would like to see Dunbar and The New Colony work together for the common good.. Pegs and Kelly have a bad taste of the Colony and since CJ sounds like the New Marcus/GateKeeper they will probably not stay. I can see Tonya leaving. She will not leave Saul. But we could all be surprised and they not make a stink out of leaving and make it like they are going to setup a second safe house at Dunbar to ship any survivors and supplies down to the Colony and to carry on the experiments with the cracks and ground zero area..

[Bakkie-Pleur]

Wow best episode so far! I didn't expected CJ to kick out Saul and Victor! I wonder who will go with them to the Dunbar outpost.. As it is looking now we get three storylines
1 - CJ, Colony, Michael and his Soldiers VS Ink (The big picture), since they don't really care about the Mallers and Scratch (as long as they stay out).
2 - Riley/ Burt Super Tag team Vs Sratch/ Maller leftovers and will go Guerrilla style
3 - Saul and Victor going to play on the playstation at Dunbar and just sit on there asses... Okay havent figure thit out yet, maybe like Merlin above said they will go carry on experiments and find a cure (maybe eventually working together with CJ and Michael) with help of Tanya, Lizzy??

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

I need to rant a bit ...

Sorry, NO! You had a bloody death-match of awesome with the coolest hate-bride on the show, you were close to death, cried out loudly in pain, got your leg cut off ... And only a few days later you are running around, yelling orders, doin' shit and real shit like Captain Ahab on steroids? Sorry ... my suspense of disbelief is really hard challenged ... Such a serious medical treatment takes its toll - and that's a little more than just playing out the disappointment about Saul and Victor. And no: being "democratically" voted to become the new leader in town does not come close to pharmaceuticals to allow you to run around like you are used to having your leg like years ago ...

But alas ...
I see the point and the value for the new trouble within humanity within the story and stuff. So yes, I go with it, as if I had any choice. But I am not happy with it. Except for the zombs the WA show was heavily based on reasonable developments and treatment of situations. But the whole CJ-madical care and the few days ever since with the crazy Tina Turner Thudnerdome Overlordess ... Ah, a heavy burden for me ...

I needed to write this down in order to get rid of shit. All the other things on #37-3 were awesome. I really hoped that things would turn in favor of the humans. But humans do what they are infamous for: they are destructive any time possible. So: here we go. Thinks are crippling, NO, FALLING apart at the speed of light ... And most things make a lot of sense. I really wonder what Michael's gonna do when he learns about Saul and Victor leaving; and I wonder what his reaction will be about Riley and Burt; but maybe Riley and Burt will start deceiving people and prepare their own plans hidden from the view of others; and what with Tanya? I am so sorry about her. Her situation is bad. She is right in the middle between several groups of people. What will happen when she learns about Saul leaving her again? And how openly will she include Michael in things from now on?


@Liam: In advance, I am on this particular island - Mallorca, please do not facepalm me. :-)


http://youtu.be/jRNAmUOuY3c

No, just kidding! Enjoy your trip. Some places might be not as bad as rumors are. ;)

Best wishes!
Liam

[pmchawk]

Listened 3 times now. So much to digest and directions this could go.

[Grognaurd]

Oh, I would be remiss if I did not have my serving of Crow. I heard a crow at Angel's grave site just before Riley sharts talking about "her".

[REZombie]

Lets see..... First i'm thinking after all this, Michael and the rest will be pissed about CJ's decisions and decide to leave for Dunbar soon..but CJ will probably be pissed that they are all leaving, so it might cause some serious issues there.... Anyway, they leave/get out with bad blood once against between the Colony and Michael and gang.....

On the other hand, it might work out well, and they setup a "military" base at Dunbar and keep good relations with the colony for medical and everything for Lizzy and such. Also with all the firepower and supplies, safe houses and everything else that CJ had setup, it would probably prove to be great for setting up recon on the zombies.

As for Riley....I see her and Burt possibly setting off on their own to hunt down Scratch. Because i dont see michael going along with it...They both have major debts to settle...not sure how thats gonna turn out...I think we will lose one of the two to Scratch's blade.

And for a random twist.....What are the chances of a CJ/Michael relationship brewing if things work out with the Saul/Victor deal? They both are similar in the fact that they feel they need to step up and take the lead, both very good at planning things out, both somewhat hot headed...if things work out good with a Dunbar setup, Michael leading it, and CJ leading the colony.....I dunno... with the Pegs thing not working, i see ichael reaching out to someone...woud be interesting if that person was CJ...

But either way, i think its obvious that it will end up CJ colony leader and Michael Dunbar Leader... Hence the "Balance of Power"

[Witch_Doctor]

You are absolutely right! CJ just had her Flower Pot Moment with me. &quot;I never had anyone go from the top of my list to the bottom so fast.&quot; - Michael Cross, Rules and Regulations <br />
She has a quick...

[Malador]

I don't think Michael will going to Dunbar, at least not immediately. I think the chopper crew along with Saul and victor will make their way to Dunbar, and begin the process of refortifying it. Saul and Victor will keeps their mouths shut so that Lizzy wo;; stay at the colony with Tanya for the child birth.

[UndeadSweeper]

You forgot, <br />
<br />
Will our Caped Crusaders escaped the Samurai's web of power? Tuned in next week!

[Witch_Doctor]

Does anyone see multiple splits coming?
Riley & Burt - To hunt for Scratch
Saul & Victor - to Dunbar with any one else who'll join them.
CJ & Peg Leg - At the Colony

It would be a shame for the group to split on bad terms but better for them to split in a Fort Irwin/Boulder model. Don't keep all of your baskets in one egg, because if the SHTF then it would be good to have a safe place to run too as opposed to finding and building a new safe place amidst the turmoil.

Also, seems like there is a new character after all, Max.

[Jannit]

I had another thought about the whole issue of who is staying and leaving.

Bear with me a minute as I try to wrap my head around all of this. If people have to leave and go alllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Dunbar, the fastest way to get there would be by helicopter. It's unlikely that Saul would want to put Lizzy through the possibly dangerous road trip and would probably try to talk Pegs into flying them over. I'm assuming Michael is going along and in the group, Michael would probably have the best claim of ownership on the helicopter. Now, although I said before that Pegs probably wouldn't have any reason to go with Michael, I thought of one: There could be another position open on the Scratch Death Squad.

In this scenario Michael, Datu, Pegs, Riley, Saul, Lizzy, Burt, Victor, Faith and Tanya take the Pelican to Dunbar. Once the people have arrived Riley, Burt and Pegs take off on a hunting trip. This may or may not be known to the rest of the group at the time they leave.

ETA: I forgot Hope (aka Faith in my mind, apparently) in the list. There are likely others as well but I'll add if I remember. Herp derp.

[Witch_Doctor]

Faith[/B] and Tanya take the Pelican to Dunbar. Once the people have arrived Riley, Burt and Pegs take off on a hunting trip. This may or may not be known to the rest of the group at the time they leave.

ETA: I forgot Faith in the list. There are likely others as well but I'll add if I remember. Herp derp.

Do you mean Hope? LOL

[Cabbage Patch]

The Colony seems to be repeating old patterns of behavior. I can't help thinking that this was how Marcus ended up in charge in the first place. <br />
<br />
It's good to hear that Burt and Riley are coming...

[Witch_Doctor]

Oh, only since no one else has tinfoiled this out yet... Scratch and gang are at Dunbar! :tinfoil:

Noooo, I don't think that is the case. Just want to conspiratheorize before 7oddIsDead, Red Shirt or Grognaurd beat me too it.

[Grognaurd]

We have so many plot developments and everyone seems to be going their own way. We have 11 episodes to resolve most of this. We need convergence, not more divergence.

Wanton Speculation. The sane may wish to skip to next poster

CJ needs to hate the Mallers to join the crusade: The Mallers already had people in The Colony. Their first strike was to eliminate Sean by sending him into a trap and then to kill Marcus. Although it looks like an accident, The Mallers really did kill Sean

Michael is in a bad way with the colony. Everyone blames him for calling the Mallers. As above, the Mallers already had plans. They would have come even if he did not try to call "the nest". Recon teams from the tower had already picked up radio traffic to the south. If the tower picked up on it by accident, than the Mallers certainly would have since they were monitoring everything.

This simple twist helps to unify the survivors against the Mallers.

As Witch_Doctor says, everyone has their Flower Pot Moment. Will this be Victor's? He never even wanted to bring up Sean and told Saul so with the classic Nix Nay on the Hombre.

No one has clean hands and with less than a hundred humans left this is not the time to start pointing fingers. Now is the time to sweep up everybody's droppings and pull together as a team. They are in it for the species and if that is not a motivating enough, then maybe the humanity deserves what they got.

I have similar delusions with the outbreak and the family, but that is a tale for another chapter. Anymore and the people of the forums with good sense will lock me up in the psyche ward at Cain’s General Hospital.

LOL. I so want to write a fanfic where I show up and give an "independence day" speech, kick these people in the ass and knock some heads.

[fredrum]

Was anyone else surprised at how many colonists there still are? I was picturing maybe 20 or 30, but if there were 62 votes and not everyone voted, then how many are we talking?

[Grognaurd]

Final chapter part for 37.

If you haven't done so make sure you wish many happy returns to the new Mr. And Mrs. Wayland!

Yup, she even got the name change in the credits!

/cheer

[Gooer]

God damnit CJ, kicking them out of the colony, and now Burt and Riley on a rampage for Scratch, Michael not in charge, THIS ISN'T GOING THE WAY I WANT IT TO GO! ._.'

[Jannit]

Do you mean Hope? LOL

... Uh... umm.... *Coughs*

That's what I said! <_<

<3

[Malador]

I think in the interest of keeping the peace the Dunabr group will be pretty small to start with, Maybe the chopper crew, Saul, Victor and Datu. Mr Fixit will have to go because the helicopter will probably fall apart as soon as it lands at the apartments.

[Hoff4D]

I just have to say it, I think I finally...ONE TIME, called a prediction dead on (or damn close to it)

In the 37-2 thread I implied pretty much exactly what happened regard CJ and Michael (link to post: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4741-Chapter-37-2-Balance-of-Power&p=63512&viewfull=1#post63512 ) :





...once CJ comes too we will start using her setup to gain intel/attack Ink et al. Will it be because the Colony has a falling out with Michael and we need to split up? Who knows, but it's possible given the foreshadowing. Perhaps it's CJ's idea once she can think things through again and the colony falls in line behind her. She recognizes Michael's usefulness and agrees to let him head up a certain faction. She plays the 'michael is stupid' role to the colony, but behind the scenes works in perfect synchronicity with him....



Maybe the use of 'perfect synchronicity' was a little off, but I felt after the last year and half plus of predictions, I finally got one kind of right! lol


All that aside, a few of us thought CJ or Michael would try to split us up between dunbar and a few safe houses to keep numbers low, but it looks like CJ wants to stick to the Colony (so far). I can't imagine everyone let Saul/Victor go by themselves. Lizzy wouldn't let him go, but she needs the hostpital/care of a doctor. Tanya wouldn't let Saul leave again, but she has a sort of moral duty to the hospital/colony. I would think Michael wouldn't let them go it alone again, but CJ and he have an understanding right now. Burt and Riley are looking to go it alone, so they'd prolly go out with Saul/Victor for some Mad Max action

I guess at the 'end of the week' there is going to be quite the falling out. We may still get the 'spread out small numbers' we thought were gonna happen, but not by plan, by circumstance. I think Michael would follow Saul/Victor, but so would Tanya and Lizzie, but can they? Either we get some resolution and everyone stays at the Colony and plan together, or we have 2 factions again, with the only Tower people I see willing to stay at the colony without Michael as being......Pegs.


Forgot to mention Datu, he's Wreck-It Michael's Fix-It Datu, so they have to stick together (god I hope that reference doesnt fall on deaf ears)


Edit: Forgot to add all the military guys....they're gonna follow whatever Michael does through and through. Also, Kelly....I forsee some more "Burt" action from Kelly, I think she actually sticks by Michael finally.

[wh33t]

Congrats to the newly weds! Who did Kc marry btw? Congrats anyhow!

Anyone else feel that the art work for this chapter was misleading? I suppose the colony was in chaos when they arrived though, but still. I figured I was going to see chaos and fire in this episode.

My thoughts on CJ havent changed. Shes brilliant, but a bullheaded and immature. Always lashes out whenever shes emotionally challenged, which I must admit is a trait I see in many people in my day to day but shes obviously the overreacting queen in the story so far.

I have issues accepting that CJ would actually dismiss Saul and Vic simply because she ought to be aware of the brotherhood of the original tower crew. To think that Saul and Vic are supposed to somehow leave and go to Dunbar with out the others asking why? That seems a bit far fetched to me. Not from CJs stand point, but a writing perspective, then again CJ is an overreacting dullard at times.

I put my vote in that most, if not all of the original tower crew end up at Dunbar. For one, its probably way better armed and set up and hidden and to our knowledge; no maller is aware of it. For two Michael has got a small platoon and wants to bring the fight to the Z, Riley and Burt want to kill Scratch, and Im sure the rest of the tower crew feels the same.

Now another agonizing two weeks!!

[Hellbringer]

I'd love to see how the Colons (not a typo) will react to their only doctor leaving because CJ kicked Saul out of the Colony.


I'm with you; I think Tanya will go with family first before anything else.

[UndeadSweeper]

Also would Hope know CJ?

[Hellbringer]

Was anyone else surprised at how many colonists there still are? I was picturing maybe 20 or 30, but if there were 62 votes and not everyone voted, then how many are we talking?

Yeah, my jaw dropped when I heard that number... and I was driving down a highway too, so I might have swerved a bit. I didn't expect more than 30 to 35... yeah, I have no idea how I came to those numbers.

[Grognaurd]

Thats a good question. I think Hope knows CJ, I do not think CJ knows Hope. She is the Queen and I do not think she mixed with the people. Hope will get her sight back and tell a lot of horror...

[SmokeyZombified]

Its pretty obvious that Michael and his troops will leave the second he finds out that Saul and Victor got the boot. Maybe CJ doesn't understand that Saul, Michael and Victor are all close friends (especially Saul and Michael)? Either way the second Mike finds out about Saul and Vic he's gone and so are the troops with him. I have a bad feeling it will come to blows between Michael leaving and the Colony. But all because CJ got butthurt the colony will lose all their military personnel, Datu, their main doctor (Tanya will go where Saul goes) not to mention Riley and Burt are going to leave on their own. Pegs will more than likely stay (screw her anyways) and Kelly will go with Victor (don't forget they have something going on between them).

I agree with everyone that this is going to turn into a 3 part story

1.) Michael, Saul, Victor, Robbins, Puck, Carl, Mulldoone (SP), Datu, Tanya, Kelly, Hope and whoever else joins them at Dunbar
2.) Riley and Burt and whoever else joins them on Operation-Kill the fuck out of Scratch
3.) CJ, Pegs, Glenn and the colonists at the Colony

The biggest question is will the Colony and Dunbar get along? Or KC could throw us a loop and have CJ decide to let Victor and Saul stay as soon as she realizes Michael and crew will leave if they don't? CJ is too stubborn in my opinion, I think there might be bad blood between the two groups.

[Hoff4D]

I just have to say it, I think I finally...ONE TIME, called a prediction dead on (or damn close to it)

In the 37-2 thread I implied pretty much exactly what happened regard CJ and Michael (link to post: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4741-Chapter-37-2-Balance-of-Power&p=63512&viewfull=1#post63512 ) :




Maybe the use of 'perfect synchronicity' was a little off, but I felt after the last year and half plus of predictions, I finally got one kind of right! lol


All that aside, a few of us thought CJ or Michael would try to split us up between dunbar and a few safe houses to keep numbers low, but it looks like CJ wants to stick to the Colony (so far). I can't imagine everyone let Saul/Victor go by themselves. Lizzy wouldn't let him go, but she needs the hostpital/care of a doctor. Tanya wouldn't let Saul leave again, but she has a sort of moral duty to the hospital/colony. I would think Michael wouldn't let them go it alone again, but CJ and he have an understanding right now. Burt and Riley are looking to go it alone, so they'd prolly go out with Saul/Victor for some Mad Max action

I guess at the 'end of the week' there is going to be quite the falling out. We may still get the 'spread out small numbers' we thought were gonna happen, but not by plan, by circumstance. I think Michael would follow Saul/Victor, but so would Tanya and Lizzie, but can they? Either we get some resolution and everyone stays at the Colony and plan together, or we have 2 factions again, with the only Tower people I see willing to stay at the colony without Michael as being......Pegs.


Forgot to mention Datu, he's Wreck-It Michael's Fix-It Datu, so they have to stick together (god I hope that reference doesnt fall on deaf ears)


Edit: Forgot to add all the military guys....they're gonna follow whatever Michael does through and through. Also, Kelly....I forsee some more "Burt" action from Kelly, I think she actually sticks by Michael finally.


Immediately revising my thoughts....I think Michael actually decides to let this one play out. On top of CJ playing both sides (colony vs michael), I think Michael will play both sides (CJ vs our mucho macho terrible two-some). He maintains talks with the Dunbar and establishes an 'escape plan' for people in his inner circle for if/when shit hits the fan in the Colony. Since Michael has the knowledge of "bigger numbers are more dangerous", he knows he needs an escape plan. He'll basically use Dunbar as a forward operating base, and plan out an offensive from it. He'll get storages of supplies from the Colony and do what he can to keep the peace, but maintain Dunbar as the next step. He wont leave the Colony strapper to live like the first time he left...but he will set up his crew in the long run. All this time sharing/broadening intel with CJ. Learning what else she knows about the cracks and stuff, and using it from Dunbar


Edit: Credit to REZombie, he pretty much said exactly what I just said 2 pages earlier...I should've finished all the comments before posting, whoops.

[SmokeyZombified]

Immediately revising my thoughts....I think Michael actually decides to let this one play out. On top of CJ playing both sides (colony vs michael), I think Michael will play both sides (CJ vs our mucho macho terrible two-some). He maintains talks with the Dunbar and establishes an 'escape plan' for people in his inner circle for if/when shit hits the fan in the Colony. Since Michael has the knowledge of "bigger numbers are more dangerous", he knows he needs an escape plan. He'll basically use Dunbar as a forward operating base, and plan out an offensive from it. He'll get storages of supplies from the Colony and do what he can to keep the peace, but maintain Dunbar as the next step. He wont leave the Colony strapper to live like the first time he left...but he will set up his crew in the long run. All this time sharing/broadening intel with CJ. Learning what else she knows about the cracks and stuff, and using it from Dunbar

Edit: Credit to REZombie, he pretty much said exactly what I just said 2 pages earlier...I should've finished all the comments before posting, whoops.

I think Michael is too hot headed and will leave with Saul, Michael is certainly the type to say "F you" to people who make him angry. He might use the strategy to lure CJ into maintaining a peaceful relationship with them, but when all is said and done Michael wont abandon Saul and Victor, especially because Tanya, Hope and Lizzy will follow Saul.

By strategy I mean, Michael will help support the Colony and protect it if CJ will help support and protect them at Dunbar

[Hoff4D]

Oh, only since no one else has tinfoiled this out yet... Scratch and gang are at Dunbar! :tinfoil:

Noooo, I don't think that is the case. Just want to conspiratheorize before 7oddIsDead, Red Shirt or Grognaurd beat me too it.

See (the end of) post here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4714-Wnd-55&p=62600&viewfull=1#post62600

But ignore the very end of that post, as it was WAY off regarding pegs, lol

Now gimmie back that hat :tinfoil:

[Hellbringer]

Throughout the entire chapter, Puck reminds me of a stereotypical Army E-4. And to KC, I mean that in a good way.

I like the theories that the helicopter leaves with Saul and Victor (and others), but Michael and crew said that the helo is only at about half a tank on fuel. That makes me think that they'll have to stop at LAX or somewhere similar to get more fuel at some point. Also, while it may be possible to land the helo at Dunbar Apartments, it wouldn't be hard to spot a helicopter flying around and trying to figure out where it landed if you're in the vicinity. I don't think Scratch and company are there, but what if the helicopter makes it to Dunbar Apartments and a Maller scout see the helo flying by and figures out where it lands?

Also, and this is a personal preference, but I want Muldoon to step up a little bit more. Maybe he's a WOJ and doesn't feel like he should fill a role or something.

[Hoff4D]

Its pretty obvious that Michael and his troops will leave the second he finds out that Saul and Victor got the boot. Maybe CJ doesn't understand that Saul, Michael and Victor are all close friends (especially Saul and Michael)? Either way the second Mike finds out about Saul and Vic he's gone and so are the troops with him. I have a bad feeling it will come to blows between Michael leaving and the Colony. But all because CJ got butthurt the colony will lose all their military personnel, Datu, their main doctor (Tanya will go where Saul goes) not to mention Riley and Burt are going to leave on their own. Pegs will more than likely stay (screw her anyways) and Kelly will go with Victor (don't forget they have something going on between them).

I agree with everyone that this is going to turn into a 3 part story

1.) Michael, Saul, Victor, Robbins, Puck, Carl, Mulldoone (SP), Datu, Tanya, Kelly, Hope and whoever else joins them at Dunbar
2.) Riley and Burt and whoever else joins them on Operation-Kill the fuck out of Scratch
3.) CJ, Pegs, Glenn and the colonists at the Colony

The biggest question is will the Colony and Dunbar get along? Or KC could throw us a loop and have CJ decide to let Victor and Saul stay as soon as she realizes Michael and crew will leave if they don't? CJ is too stubborn in my opinion, I think there might be bad blood between the two groups.

My issue with only Pegs staying behind, I think we lose the narrative. She will doubtfully continue to journal her days at the colony, perhaps CJ will document things, but do we get her perspective without any other Towerites to hear/read it? I think Michael 'keeps the peace' for awhile in his first ever successful long-term plan, haha

[Hoff4D]

I think Michael is too hot headed and will leave with Saul, Michael is certainly the type to say "F you" to people who make him angry. He might use the strategy to lure CJ into maintaining a peaceful relationship with them, but when all is said and done Michael wont abandon Saul and Victor, especially because Tanya, Hope and Lizzy will follow Saul.

By strategy I mean, Michael will help support the Colony and protect it if CJ will help support and protect them at Dunbar

I think he'll get his 'eff you' a little more elaborately is all. He sets up Dunbar to be the long-term escaple plan as the ultimate "eff you" to CJ. Also, you have to remember CJ said "this stays between us" so Victor/Saul could paint this as their plan to go to Dunbar....not that they're exiled. Michael could use that as a jumping off point to say "oh yea...Dunbar...that might be a good idea, go check it out and I'll keep you guys in the know"

[SmokeyZombified]

My issue with only Pegs staying behind, I think we lose the narrative. She will doubtfully continue to journal her days at the colony, perhaps CJ will document things, but do we get her perspective without any other Towerites to hear/read it? I think Michael 'keeps the peace' for awhile in his first ever successful long-term plan, haha

There are no long term plans in Zombie land! I don't know, I think we wont see much of Pegs this season until maybe closer to the end. I think this season will primarily be a militaryesque story with lots of fighting and the main focus being on Michael and Gang and Burt/Riley kill Scratch fest. I think the Colony will fall after Michael leaves and the survivors will end up at Dunbar feeling like idiots

Just read your other post, I think you make a great point there. Maybe Saul and Victor will play it off as their "plan" but what about Lizzy? You think she is going to except Saul straight leaving right before his child is born? In the end we all know Michael will find out one way or another that CJ exiled Saul and Victor and when he finds out he will leave.

[Hoff4D]

There are no long term plans in Zombie land! I don't know, I think we wont see much of Pegs this season until maybe closer to the end. I think this season will primarily be a militaryesque story with lots of fighting and the main focus being on Michael and Gang and Burt/Riley kill Scratch fest. I think the Colony will fall after Michael leaves and the survivors will end up at Dunbar feeling like idiots

That's my exact point, if ONLY pegs stays behind, I don't think we hear how the colony falls, or what happens there otherwise, because we won't hear anything from her in general. 2 reasons, she doesn't have much to add for now, and she probably isn't writing in her journal. And I think we have some more to learn from CJ still, so someone has to stay behind that's WORTH listening to....so I think (read: I HOPE) Michael stays behind and puts together the Plan B for Towerites

[Th3_T3ch]

So listened to the episode twice, with a nap in between listens of course. I've got to say that CJ isn't hitting it off with any of the survivors anymore. Since I haven't seen it, and I believe this will happen, Michael will convince CJ to let Saul and Victor stay. CJ says they have till the end of the week to leave, giving Michael plenty of time to bargain for Saul and Victor. I'm seeing a "no them, no me" situation brewing that CJ will have to cave since she "needs Michael's military experience". I do think that Riley and Burt are going to be our B story for a little while (till they kill Scratch).

Just to set the story right, Victor didn't lie to CJ initially. He said the people who killed Sean were at the colony, he didn't say it was the Mallers until CJ asked directly.

[Grognaurd]

Just to set the story right, Victor didn't lie to CJ initially. He said the people who killed Sean were at the colony, he didn't say it was the Mallers until CJ asked directly.

Well, to the best of our knowledge it was a zombie wave attack that killed Sean and his team. All we hear is a radio announce the wave, Victor, Mchael etal run for cover. The next day Pete says they got Sean's group.

EDIT. I want to clarify this. Pegs overheard the conspiracy. Anything she knew would not get to Saul. He was out of the tower again before being able to compare notes. How much would Victor remember of what Pegs said? I cannot remember how much she says to victor.

[Witch_Doctor]

Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor View Post (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?p=63737#post63737)
Oh, only since no one else has tinfoiled this out yet... Scratch and gang are at Dunbar!

Noooo, I don't think that is the case. Just want to conspiratheorize before 7oddIsDead, Red Shirt or Grognaurd beat me too it.
See (the end of) post here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4714-Wnd-55&p=62600&viewfull=1#post62600

But ignore the very end of that post, as it was WAY off regarding pegs, lol

Now gimmie back that hat :tinfoil:


To Hoff4D: :tinfoil: Wear it with honor.

[Witch_Doctor]

I think he'll get his 'eff you' a little more elaborately is all. He sets up Dunbar to be the long-term escaple plan as the ultimate "eff you" to CJ. Also, you have to remember CJ said "this stays between us" so Victor/Saul could paint this as their plan to go to Dunbar....not that they're exiled. Michael could use that as a jumping off point to say "oh yea...Dunbar...that might be a good idea, go check it out and I'll keep you guys in the know"

I hope not. That would be too much like Lizzy leaving the Tower. Don't want to her that story again any more than I wanted to hear Burt telling CJ a story about tuna fish sammiches. Maybe they'll tell Lizzy and she'll use her experience in exile to put a big fat no on the plan. Also, I wonder if the Colonists excluded Lizzy from the vote. Do they consider her a resident or Maller?

[UndeadSweeper]

I hope not. That would be too much like Lizzy leaving the Tower. Don't want to her that story again and more than I wanted to hear Burt telling CJ a story about tuna fish sammiches. Maybe they'll tell Lizzy and she'll use her experience in exile to put a big fat no on the plan. Also, I wonder if the Colonists excluded Lizzy from the vote. Do they consider her a resident or Maller?

I think they saw a pregnant woman and were happy that she was at least treat well.

But I do think this will force Michael out of his shell and talk that he feel that they should stay.

[clem131]

I agree, it would not make sense any other way: I can see a lot of history repeating here. Michael at the Colony, Saul in need somewhere else, people in charge in the Colony keeping Michael from...

[thisonegirl]

I just love all the "I hate CJ, now" comments! How they make me lol. I seriously can't be the only one who always thought she was a self-interested (maybe even self-obsessed?), dislikeable character. It always seemed to me she kept Saul and Victor around purely because she wanted to get with Saul and he wasn't going to allow her to kick Victor out.

To say that I felt someone should give her a good smack to knock her out and tie her to the bed would be an understatement.

I can't wait until they all realize exactly what kind of person she really is, as Saul and Victor already have.

***

Oh, and congratulations are in order for the newlyweds! Did it sink in yet, or are you guys still thinking, "Oh, yeah, that's right we're married!:D:excited:"?

[UndeadSweeper]

I just love all the "I hate CJ, now" comments! How they make me lol. I seriously can't be the only one who always thought she was a self-interested (maybe even self-obsessed?), dislikeable character. It always seemed to me she kept Saul and Victor around purely because she wanted to get with Saul and he wasn't going to allow her to kick Victor out.

To say that I felt someone should give her a good smack to knock her out and tie her to the bed would be an understatement.

I can't wait until they all realize exactly what kind of person she really is, as Saul and Victor already have.

***

Oh, and congratulations are in order for the newlyweds! Did it sink in yet, or are you guys still thinking, "Oh, yeah, that's right we're married!:D:excited:"?

Wait til Tanya find out and you may get your wish.

[Witch_Doctor]

I just love all the "I hate CJ, now" comments! How they make me lol. I seriously can't be the only one who always thought she was a self-interested (maybe even self-obsessed?), dislikeable character.

But but but, I loveded CJ. How could I have been so wrong? Maybe it was that sexy voice. CJ </3

[awkwardalex]

Okay so....

Burt and Riley: Best Buddy Cop Comedy ever???

[HardKor]

Finally I get to listen to this week's episode!
Note to self: Never get stuck running around St. Louis on a Monday! I've been jonesing all day here!
Alright now on to the episode. I gotta admit I never figured the whole Sean revelation was going to amount to much. And I was damn sure wrong! Now we got another case of splitting the party. It seems like everyone's gotten their opinions in on who's gonna go where, so I'll throw in my two cents:
So we got Saul and Victor going into exile at Dunbar. There is no way I can ever envision Saul leaving Lizzy behind, so unless she flat out refuses to leave, which I don't see as likely, Lizzy's going up to Dunbar as well.
I'm really not sure what Tanya's gonna do. Lizzy's going to need a doctor but will Tanya up and leave everyone at the Colony behind, even if it is for her grandchild? She did do it before, but that was when Marcus was ruling like a dictator and things were falling apart in Gatekeeper's coup. Now that the Colony is under a sort of democratic rule under CJ, maybe Tanya will feel compelled to stay and look after everyone. I really see it as a coin toss.
Michael's a coin toss too. He might see Saul and Victor getting kicked out and say "Screw this! I'm taking my ball and leaving!" (the "ball" is this case being a helicopter and loads of military equipment and weapons) Or he might let Saul and Victor go off and let them set up shop in Dunbar and act as the eyes and ears in L.A. Ultimately I think what Michael does depends on how Saul breaks the news to him. Because Michael's first reaction is going to be "Screw this!" but I think Saul's gonna try to smooth things over and tell him to stay.

And on a final note: I think I just fell in love with Riley all over again. You all can keep Scratch and her "Better start running." Cause Riley's voice when she let out that "then fuck them!" got my engine revving! Let the Scratch hunt begin!

Oh and a final final note: Congrats to KC and Blaire! May you live a long, happy life together and have fat babies and do whatever it is you married people do!

[Grognaurd]

Also, you have to remember CJ said "this stays between us" "

Ah, but this is where her inexperience as a puppet master shows up. Yes, she did say that. But, she calls for Max, and then tells Saul and Victor that they have until the end of the week. Max knows she just stabbed two of the saviors in the back. From My Generation, Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Come on Max, play ball and nip this powergrab in the bud.

[Hellbringer]

I'm not necessarily into the "I hate CJ" club; she has to act the ass to get things done. Some planners have charisma; some have the ability to negotiate. Some just have an asshole attitude and know how to use it in order to get things done. CJ is doing what needs to be done to survive... crap, I'm now thinking of how Survivor and Big Brother work.

We also haven't learned (unless my pre-alzheimer's kicked in) what CJ did before the outbreak. We all speculate that she was SWAT, yet, she didn't know how to clear a room. I'm not saying she was like General Bethlehem in the Postman, who had some unrelated job to the current position, but I bet she had something to do with planning and implementing.

Ok, my thoughts are all over the place, but while CJ has done some "Richard Cranium" moves, I can empathize with her exiling Saul and Victor. She wasn't expecting to lose anything and now the zombies have one leg up on her (drum noise please). And even though she is most likely doing the leader thing for her own self-preservation, it will benefit everyone who stays at the colony.

Besides, she was once "crazy cat lady," she needs a hobby and collecting baseball cards has already been taken.

[scbubba]

First things first: Congrats Mr and Mrs Kc!!!!

Now, on to other things.....

I figured we were getting ready to choose up sides, I just wasn't expecting the Sean revelation to be the impetus for it. Honestly, I had just about forgotten about the events surrounding Sean and his death. Well played, Kc.

So, CJ plays smart and gets control of the Colony. Even does a good job of smoothing things with Tanya. Then goes into trainwreck mode with Saul and Victor... mainly Victor.... Then tries to pull it together with Michael.

Leading up to that, we get resolution of the heated conversation between Michael and Victor. They are buddies now. Michael pulls in Saul and tells him about Angel before anyone else. That solidifies Saul and Michael again. Puck;s comment about being excluded was an interesting one. I don't think it foreshadows a split between Michael and his Irwinite buddies. But an interesting line nonetheless...

The Burt/Riley scene was just what we needed. I've been missing the heck out of both of them. As soon as Burt revealed that Rilay was at Angel's grave, I could see exactly how the scene was gonna play out. It just had to. The key will now be in the "how will they execute on this" details...

Where does this leave us?

No way Saul keeps it all to himself. I don't buy that he will willingly decide to split up with Lizzie and leave her in the Colony. But he definitely won't be wild about traipsing her around Zombieland in her condition. I think Saul will have to tell Lizzie the truth about leaving. Lizzie will share it elsewhere and Michael will get the real story. Victor might even share some info, just in time for once, that CJ had designs on Saul. This might help motivate Lizzie....

I don't buy that Michael just decides to hang out in the Colony once he learns more about CJ's modus operandi. He has no loyalty to her and hanging at the Colony doesn't further his desires to avoid big groups to be attacked or take the fight to the zombies. And since the Colony peeps obviously have no loyalty to Michael, even have animosity in some cases, once Michael learns about Dunbar he will be chomping at the bit to get back into the fight.

To quote my favorite TV show (Firefly, of course). Inara is speaking about Mal and says "You're lost in the woods. We all are. Even the captain. The only difference is, he likes it that way." And Mal chimes in: "The only difference is, the woods are the only place I can see a clear path."

I see this being Michael's mindset now. In the fight, he feels like he's in the right place. Like he's making a difference and doing what he is supposed to do. He doesn't have to deal with the hard stuff in the "real world". Michael gets to be a soldier with other soldiers.

So, I see one split happening in the immediate future:
To Dunbar with Saul, Lizzie, Victor, Michael, Puck, Carl, Muldoon, and Robbins
In the Colony: CJ, Pegs, Kelly, Glenn and Colony crew

To be determined (either Dunbar or Colony)
Tanya, Datu, and Hope - Tanya wil be torn between Saul/Baby and the patients of the Colony (including CJ). Datu will want to go with Michael but will not want Hope to go into danger - Datu will not leave Hope.
Burt and Riley - They will side with (temporarily) which ever group seem to give them the best chance at revenge on Scratch. I'm leaning 75% to the Colony for now.
The helicopter - no good way to take it back up into LA but no desire to leave it in the Colony. May go, like someone else put it earlier, to LAX. But that may mean leaving it unattended for long stretches of time.

Ok, enough for now. I may have to recant some or all of this later....

Also - Great catch on the Crow, Grognaurd! I missed i completely....

[Arch_Will]

congrats to Mr & Mrs Wayland :)

great chapter end to set the scene... :)

personally, CJ, one of my favourite characters is shooting herself in her only foot. (har de har har!). Everyone's comments seem to be all around the same track and I dont think mine will be any different.

The exile is definitely going to cause a rift between all the characters.. Saul and Vicky are going to go swanning off to Dunbar, their "family" for want of a better word are going to remain loyal and follow on, Datu, Hope, Kelly(she'll follow Vick, that ole charmer) with of course the exception of Burt and Riley, the dynamic duo.

Tanya and Lizzy are a tough one.. how far along now is Lizzy? 7? 8 months? she can still move around but will the trip to Dunbar be too much? will Tanya prefer to keep them there with the hospital facilities that are available at the colony? or will she protect her own child and take all the med supplies.. as Tanya pointed out during her argument with CJ.. caring for people is not her Job, she's not being forced to do it, it's not her "role". its her choice.. so when forced to choose between unknown hurt people and your own child?.. sorry.. my kin wins every time.

Michael will more than likely side with his friends over the colonists who hold a grudge. Michael doesn't seem to be the type to want to mend bridges with people he has no affiliation with. He only went back to teh colony because Saul managed to call him.. so once Michael goes.. his soldiers will go. Their loyalties were established last chapter.. if the soldiers go.. so does the helicopter, heavy weaponry and all the strategical advantage the colonists may have in their defense..

For a planner, CJ isn't doing too well.. her downfall is her bedside manner and social skills.. she's ruled by her own selfishness, self preservation and ability to let emotion cloud her judgement. Cj has this habit of very easily pushing away all those close to her.. can you count any friends that she has? and Tanya didn't cripple her, it was her own rashness that led to it and the death of the poor redshirt girl that accompanied her.

sounds like Nurse Britt needs to get in there and whoop some butt.

[Arch_Will]

Does anyone see multiple splits coming?
Riley & Burt - To hunt for Scratch
Saul & Victor - to Dunbar with any one else who'll join them.
CJ & Peg Leg - At the Colony

It would be a shame for the group to split on bad terms but better for them to split in a Fort Irwin/Boulder model. Don't keep all of your baskets in one egg, because if the SHTF then it would be good to have a safe place to run too as opposed to finding and building a new safe place amidst the turmoil.

Also, seems like there is a new character after all, Max.


haha Peg Leg with CJ.. i see what yoo did thar!!

Max is in the wiki for making a few appearances in season 3 :P helping hope and being one of the ones observed filling the water truck

[Kc]

Interesting responses and theories... Some I didn't expect, and some I did. Thank you all for your congrats! Mrs W and I are reading your comments by the pool in Florida :) see you all again soon!

[SmokeyZombified]

Interesting responses and theories... Some I didn't expect, and some I did. Thank you all for your congrats! Mrs W and I are reading your comments by the pool in Florida :) see you all again soon!

Congrats dude! Now tell me everything that's going to happen, I don't mind being spoiled!

[SmokeyZombified]

That's the one thing about Saul and Victor leaving and pretending like it's their own choice to protect CJ. It just wont make sense, especially to those closest to them. Why would Saul randomly decide to leave right before his first child is born? It's all going to come out and quickly, that's why CJ's butthurt attitude is going to doom the colony. Michael isn't the type to bend over and take anything. He'll give CJ and the Colony a big old "Fuck You". Its not like the Colonists even like him and they've made it clear they blame Michael for everything. It seems like CJ and the Colonists are a match made in Heaven. Selfish, ignorant, unable to see the big picture. The Colony will fall, not COULD fall but WILL fall.

And after it falls, the survivors will all run to Michael at Dunbar for protection and although Michael will obviously welcome them with open arms something deep inside me hopes he just tells them to "Screw Off"

[Jannit]

That's my exact point, if ONLY pegs stays behind, I don't think we hear how the colony falls, or what happens there otherwise, because we won't hear anything from her in general. 2 reasons, she doesn't have much to add for now, and she probably isn't writing in her journal. And I think we have some more to learn from CJ still, so someone has to stay behind that's WORTH listening to....so I think (read: I HOPE) Michael stays behind and puts together the Plan B for Towerites

Not necessarily. We could see a new addition to the journalers (I know that's not a real word but it works) later on that fills in the blanks the same way Kalani did with the mallers.

[werewolf]

it sounds like CJ and Micheal are good pairing. However, I don't know if Micheal will stay if Saul and Victor and Lizzie(Mrs Wayland) goes back to Dunbar. I also don't think Tanya will stay if Saul leaves either.
Now with Riley and Burt are a good pair to hunt down Scratch. In memorial to Angel when the baby comes Saul will want to call the baby Angel, and Lizzie would want to name him Bricks.

Saul now has respect for Angel now

[roberdn]

Congrats to the new married couple wish you all the best!!
This is the first time I ever posted on here but thought I had to put my two cents in. Some of the theories I believe are spot on.
I think Vic and Saul will want to keep Lizzie and Tanya from leaving the colony due to the baby and better medical care but I think Lizzie will not stay if she is told the truth and I don't think Tanya will stay if her boy is out. CJ is good at strategy but sucks when it comes to people on a day to day basis. I think she expect people to be machines and respond logically but she forgets that Michael's crew have been through hell and back and will watch out for each other. In the end it really depends on what Michael wants to do. I don't think Michael will not go along with her calling the shots now that Saul and Vic have to go and I think he will just go to Dunbar apartments with the crew. FYI I love the Burt and Riley pairing!! Can't wait for Scratch to meet her end. She is my favorite person that I love to hate!!

[Cabbage Patch]

...Thank you all for your congrats! Mrs W and I are reading your comments by the pool in Florida :) see you all again soon!

First, let me add my own congratulations. Second, you are going to do a "the Drive Home with KC and Blaire" covering the high points of your big event, right?

[Witch_Doctor]

Not necessarily. We could see a new addition to the journalers (I know that's not a real word but it works) later on that fills in the blanks the same way Kalani did with the mallers.

I vote that Journalers be entered into the Hall of Records as an Official We're Alive Sniglet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TixwF_ywN4A).

[Th3_T3ch]

A thought has surfaced in my mind that I think the forum should look into. The PoV for season 3. We have Michael (duh), Saul, Burt, and Tanya. No one else. Pegs, Victor, Kelly, Riley, Soliders, Hope, and even Datu haven't narrated so far. I know we're only in the first chapter, but I think it should be considered when thinking about Group splits. Out of the Tower Folk there are only 4 that kept to journaling extensively. Lizzy even stopped it seems, and she was one who was all gung ho for Journaling after she was evicted from the Tower.

With this in mind it leads me to think that Burt and Riley will run off after Scratch on their own, and after she is dead, Burt will return alone with his tale.

Also Since we haven't heard from any of the solider's perspective I don't think they will survive to the end. It would make sense for Michael to have them all in the report making routine, so why haven't we heard from them. Again I understand we are only three episodes into the final season (that kinda hurt to type), but we haven't even heard a peep from their PoV.

Finally (and after a lot more thought), I'm sticking to my thinking that Michael will bargain for Saul and Victor to stay. And more over, convince her (or atleast make her very upset at the compromise) to let them stay under Michael's command (which they already are).

[Witch_Doctor]

I dunno guys. The whole Colony/Dunbar split, Who goes/Who stays thing seems too obvious as a major conflict based on CJ's grudge. Hopefully the Colonists are not so blind as to let the Military & Medical expertise leave based on one person's grudge. See how she used her new authority for personal use by telling the guys that the Colonists just elected her Empress. Talk about you benevolent dictators.

It just seems too simplistic for the conflict to result in that kind of split. Like everyone's been saying, I doubt Saul & Victor are gonna leave without saying why. When the reason get out, crap is gonna happen. This seems like the simplest course. I think KC is setting us up for crazy chaos just to reveal a simpler solution.

[REZombie]

listened to the episode again... I have to say the scene with Burt. and Riley is probably in the running for most powerful scene in the series thus far.. I mean there is so much emotion in her words. especially. the lines" I can't. .I don't care..I don't care about their stupid fucking farm and their stupid fucking wall" and then the last line" ....fuck them" ... just a very powerful scene. I really can't wait to see how it goes.

[Jannit]

I dunno guys. The whole Colony/Dunbar split, Who goes/Who stays thing seems too obvious as a major conflict based on CJ's grudge. Hopefully the Colonists are not so blind as to let the Military & Medical expertise leave based on one person's grudge. See how she used her new authority for personal use by telling the guys that the Colonists just elected her Empress. Talk about you benevolent dictators.

It just seems too simplistic for the conflict to result in that kind of split. Like everyone's been saying, I doubt Saul & Victor are gonna leave without saying why. When the reason get out, crap is gonna happen. This seems like the simplest course. I think KC is setting us up for crazy chaos just to reveal a simpler solution.

The less interesting but possibly more likely scenario is that CJ ends up changing her mind about the banishment. She's got a lot more to lose than anyone else if things go down the way you mention here - and the way a lot of people have mentioned so far. Perhaps she calms down and reasons this idea through a bit more and comes to her senses. Considering all the trauma the girl has been through in the last couple of days it IS understandable that she might be a tad temperamental and overreact.

[nikvoodoo]

Just to set the story right, Victor didn't lie to CJ initially. He said the people who killed Sean were at the colony, he didn't say it was the Mallers until CJ asked directly.

Lies of omission are still lies. Victor is very adept at this lying method thus far.

I like this episode. It makes my prediction heart warm and fuzzy. I've said Pete/Glenn would reveal Sean's demise to CJ because Victor and Saul certainly won't. Doesn't benefit them to do it. Speaking of liars, I buy Victor's apology re: Angel. It was genuine.

I am also doubling down on my theory that Scratch dies at Riley's hand and that Burt won't make it. This possibility just became about a 95% guarantee In my head.

CJ has displaced a metric boatload of anger. Think of what Riley said about angel...she's lost him again. CJ is going through the same thing but she has power which corrupts. There are millions of different punishments she could levy as leader but she's chosen the one that causes the most damage short of execution: banishment. I can understand why, but I feel like even she knows her reasoning is somewhat flawed. CJ didn't listen which resulted in CJ losing her leg. No one put her in that basement with Scratch but her. CJ assumed the Eastern Bay people killed Sean but never asked directly. Now she's mad about it.

Now as for the colonists: non resident exclusion? Really? It's so nice now that you've made the decision for them that you'll allow others to be involved. They really haven't learned a damn thing from the moment we've met them.

[Eviebae]

Big congrats to Mr. & Mrs. Wayland...aw, now I sound all late to the party and stuff...which I am...don't judge me!

It may be that we are all supposed to think the way most of you are thinking about CJ, but honestly, no matter how logically I'd try to think, I'd feel the same way she did (good writing). I think it's normal and way in character for her. She's a consistently portrayed as a passionately loyal lady. They essentially used her love and loyalty to Bricks to get what they wanted and she ended up losing her leg (It would really be interesting to learn that Bricks is still alive somewhere). She's working on her diplomacy but she still yells first, then rethinks and rejiggers.

Plus, she basically threw herself at Saul only to find out he might have been looking at her as just his ride over to his Girlfriend's house. Gotta sting.

Basically, we needed reasons for our group to separate. Looking at the voodoo stories I think Scratch and Ink will end up in some sort of final embrace.

[Hellbringer]

Lies of omission are still lies. Victor is very adept at this lying method thus far.



But even Obi Wan Kenobi was forgiven by Luke when Old Ben admitted that he left some parts out of how Luke's father "died."

Man, I keep this up and people will accuse me of being the president of CJ's fan club. uh... no.

[HardKor]

The less interesting but possibly more likely scenario is that CJ ends up changing her mind about the banishment. She's got a lot more to lose than anyone else if things go down the way you mention here - and the way a lot of people have mentioned so far. Perhaps she calms down and reasons this idea through a bit more and comes to her senses. Considering all the trauma the girl has been through in the last couple of days it IS understandable that she might be a tad temperamental and overreact.

This is an interesting idea, but I think it negates the setup from this episode. I think Saul and Victor at least are going to have to leave the Colony, at least for a time.

I am starting to think this is going to set up yet another Pegs/Michael argument. Because, first of all, there is no way Saul is going to be able to convince the Tower folks that he is leaving by his own choice. And once Saul lets on the reason he's leaving, Michael is going to want everyone from the old Tower/Ft. Irwin to go with them. Which is going to lead to Pegs declaring that she won't go and call Michael out on wanting to abandon everyone from the colony, again.
And while they're fighting it out, and generally making everyone else feel all kinds of awkward, Saul will pull the same sort of thing Lizzy did when she got kicked out of the Tower: He'll say that, no, he doesn't want everyone go with them. He and Victor will go off on their own, and Michael and everyone else should stay at the Colony and defend it/take the war to the zombies/etc...But of course Lizzy will want to go with Saul and won't take no for an answer.

[scbubba]

I dunno guys. The whole Colony/Dunbar split, Who goes/Who stays thing seems too obvious as a major conflict based on CJ's grudge. Hopefully the Colonists are not so blind as to let the Military & Medical expertise leave based on one person's grudge. See how she used her new authority for personal use by telling the guys that the Colonists just elected her Empress. Talk about you benevolent dictators.

It just seems too simplistic for the conflict to result in that kind of split. Like everyone's been saying, I doubt Saul & Victor are gonna leave without saying why. When the reason get out, crap is gonna happen. This seems like the simplest course. I think KC is setting us up for crazy chaos just to reveal a simpler solution.

I agree it's pretty straight forward thinking. That doesn't mean it won't be true "somewhat". That is, maybe we have the splits like people are theorizing but the splits aren't permanent. Plenty of things can still happen to bring groups together or drive a wedge. I see the Colony paying a big price longer term. Too many people in one place. TOWTM won't be able to resist and he'll be better prepared to take a defended position this time....

Either way, storm's a comin'

[Witch_Doctor]

I dunno guys. The whole Colony/Dunbar split, Who goes/Who stays thing seems too obvious as a major conflict based on CJ's grudge. Hopefully the Colonists are not so blind as to let the Military & Medical expertise leave based on one person's grudge. See how she used her new authority for personal use by telling the guys that the Colonists just elected her Empress. Talk about your benevolent dictators.

It just seems too simplistic for the conflict to result in that kind of split. Like everyone's been saying, I doubt Saul & Victor are gonna leave without saying why. When the reason get out, crap is gonna happen. This seems like the simplest course. I think KC is setting us up for crazy chaos just to reveal a simpler solution.

The less interesting but possibly more likely scenario is that CJ ends up changing her mind about the banishment. She's got a lot more to lose than anyone else if things go down the way you mention here - and the way a lot of people have mentioned so far. Perhaps she calms down and reasons this idea through a bit more and comes to her senses. Considering all the trauma the girl has been through in the last couple of days it IS understandable that she might be a tad temperamental and overreact.

Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say. When I tried reading what I wrote, it made no earthly sense.O_o

[thisonegirl]

But but but, I loveded CJ. How could I have been so wrong? Maybe it was that sexy voice. CJ </3

Really? You thought her voice was sexy? Lol, maybe it's 'cause I'm the same sex, but she always sounded kinda whiny or bossy to me.

[thisonegirl]

I should also say, though, no offense to Constance Parng. I have always said that if there's a character I dislike, the actor must be doing a hell of a job!

[cupcakezombie]

Firstly, as with everyone else, congrats to Kc and Blaire. Marriage is a step that changes nothing and everything, in the best way.
A few points:
- Besides everything else that CJ is doing, I can totally see why she no longer trusts Saul and Vic and wants them out. From her point of view, Saul was the person she trusted most in the whole world, and he lied to her about how her last love died, to get to his girlfriend, and then She loses her leg (Even though she may have made the wrong choice at the hospital, she wouldn't have been there at all without the lie. And perhaps had she not gone in Burt would have died, without CJ there to distract Scratch from him). I would be removing that person from my Christmas card list as well. Even if she kept them around, what would she trust them to do. Neither Saul or Vic are wallflowers, to take a supporting role.
- Tanya talked a lot at the start with CJ about her work being her choice. I do not think the needs of others are going to play as highly anymore, compared with her own feelings.
- Everyone seems ready to give up on Pegs and Kelly (Yes, I know big surprise, CCZ is defending Pegs ;) ). The situation that lead to them going to Boulder I think going to be different to this choice. Boulder was a chance at safety, they know that staying at the colony will not be be safe. Remember that Kelly and Pegs were the ones that chose to go on the mission with Michael that resulted in them getting to the colony in the first place. And their loyalty is still with the original crew, look where they live.
Also, I still think that Pegs has to play a role in bringing the Scratch storyline to its likely bloody conclusion. Pegs will at least be key in getting Scratch out of hiding.

[Red Shirt]

First things first, A hearty congratulations to Mr. & Mrs. Wayland. I wish you the best and many great years to come. Awesome guys, Awesome.
(I'll admit, I had a look at the emoticons. I was hoping that their might have been a new one, bells. alas there is not.)


Yet again, I wasn't there as these rolled in. With what seemed to be little to no foil hat revelations, I didn't think I'd have much to contribute. I'll just go through the posts from #1 and grab quotes as I go...


Oh, only since no one else has tinfoiled this out yet... Scratch and gang are at Dunbar! :tinfoil:

Noooo, I don't think that is the case. Just want to conspiratheorize before 7oddIsDead, Red Shirt or Grognaurd beat me too it.

I don't think I mentioned it because it seemed to me to be generally assumed that this was the case... though I do think it may have been mentioned previously.
Who else would it have been behind the wheel of that SWAT van? A van I might add had a fair bit of equipment, guns, ammo and CJ's maps of LA in it... maps of LA with directions to get back to Dunbar.

Cue: Bizarre emotional scene where Scratch is trying to get through the locked doors and gates of Dunbar, cursing Pegs for the death of Latch at every step.

I think that the crew that ventures bask to Dunbar are in for a nasty and terribly ironic surprise: Scratch holed up in the tower that she was looking for all along. With the tables turned, she now needs to keep them out. With a chopper at their disposal though and no more RPG rounds... they could go in through the roof and make short work of the matter.

That all depends on how protracted the return to Dunbar is. Perhaps Vic and Saul hole up in one of CJ's many safe houses for a while, feeding intel back to CJ through Michael. CJ keeps Michael on a short leash and won't act on the info. Riley and Burt vanish from the story for a few chapters. Michael decides enough is enough, pick up Saul and Vic and go full on commando to retake Dunbar. Only to discover a dying Burt in the hall and a crazed Riley standing over Scratch's pincushioned corpse.

I sense a return to LA/Dunbar Chapter titled: "Once More Unto the Breach."


Was anyone else surprised at how many colonists there still are? I was picturing maybe 20 or 30, but if there were 62 votes and not everyone voted, then how many are we talking?

From the intel that Gatekeeper gave CJ (Ch. 32 2/3 @ 13:30) 90 colonists, 20 slaves and 30 Mallers.
(I'll also point out that it's possible that the female "Maller" that was present during their assault on the arena, might have been one of the deserters/escapees from Dunbar.)


2.) Riley and Burt and whoever else joins them on Operation-Kill the fuck out of Scratch
That's too good for her. Throw her in pit with a live Inkling that was captured for study. Otherwise, I can't help but get the feeling that she's going to live out the series, even be left as a mystery at the show's conclusion. (Foil hat conjecture above aside.)


Ah, but this is where her inexperience as a puppet master shows up. Yes, she did say that. But, she calls for Max, and then tells Saul and Victor that they have until the end of the week. Max knows she just stabbed two of the saviors in the back. From My Generation, Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Come on Max, play ball and nip this powergrab in the bud.

But Max might not know what they "have until the end of the week" for. I don't think he was there for CJ's ultimatum.



Leading up to that, we get resolution of the heated conversation between Michael and Victor. They are buddies now. Michael pulls in Saul and tells him about Angel before anyone else. That solidifies Saul and Michael again. Puck;s comment about being excluded was an interesting one. I don't think it foreshadows a split between Michael and his Irwinite buddies. But an interesting line nonetheless...

Nah, that's more of an Army Buddy Brotherhood kind of thing. It's the sort of thing they needed to do as the Soldiers that knew him. Puck will understand once he learns the story.


Plus, she basically threw herself at Saul only to find out he might have been looking at her as just his ride over to his Girlfriend's house. Gotta sting.

My take is that being rebuffed by Saul is partially fueling her resentment. She lost Sean and can't have Saul so she's sending him away. Victor is getting caught in the fallout even though he was primary to the "lie of omission." I strongly suspected that this might have played out different had Saul reciprocated.


Too many people in one place. TOWTM won't be able to resist and he'll be better prepared to take a defended position this time....

Either way, storm's a comin'

I do believe that this is the largest (confirmed) group of people in one place since the show began. TOWTM hadn't gone south early on, but he sure has now.



An increase of activity at and around Dunbar is going to serve as a huge distraction to the zombie hordes, particularly as a distraction away from the Colony... leaving them without the chopper and heavy weapons may be moot. Leaving may just be doing them a favor.

Also, remember that Michael urged for the LA recon mission and was privy to the intel that was gathered. (Ch. 33 1/3 @ 21:46) The team's map says the naval base is clear, gives a good route, staging areas and info on the local ground wells... What wells? They already discussed early on before the first tower fell that there were no water wells in LA. Datu pointed out that he thinks LA's water came from the Colorado River. Were they talking about oil? The Naval station just might give them some of the supplies they need... Maybe fuel, but more importantly ammo for the .50 cal and M134. If I remember correctly the navy has quite the, um, "love affair" with the .50 cal and gatlings.

Whelp, I started this when there were nine pages. There's now ten. I better get this out.

[Alizée]

I know what you mean! Loved loved loved the episode. My only problem is that I'm such a die-hard Michael fan that I almost want everything to go his way x.x although I know it would be boring if it...

[Alizée]

I'm an asshole.
CONGRATS TO THE NEWLY WEDS!!!!!!!! I'm very happy for you two! :)

[Cabbage Patch]

[B][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]...remember that Michael urged for the LA recon mission and was privy to the intel that was gathered. (Ch. 33 1/3 @ 21:46) The team's map says the naval base is clear, gives a good route, staging areas and info on the local ground wells... What wells? They already discussed early on before the first tower fell that there were no water wells in LA. Datu pointed out that he thinks LA's water came from the Colorado River....

There are groundwater wells in Los Angeles. They just don't have anywhere near the capacity to support the local population, pre-Z. Here's a map showing general locations for the major groundwater wells in LA County. Don't worry about there being none near Westminster, that's in Orange County so it isn't covered on this map.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2693&d=1378790960

Each dot represent a district with multiple wells. BTW, there is a well right in the heart of Ground Zero in Inglewood.

[DaTank]

So we have CJ taking control of the colony which puts Michael in second in command *guessing on that* while Saul and Victor are being kick out cause they were lying about Seans death..maybe yes or no....and then we have Ridley who is pretty much going badass at the moment wanting to go after Scratch after what happen with Angel....Think I have it right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Red Shirt]

There are groundwater wells in Los Angeles. They just don't have anywhere near the capacity to support the local population, pre-Z. Here's a map showing general locations for the major groundwater wells in LA County. Don't worry about there being none near Westminster, that's in Orange County so it isn't covered on this map.

Each dot represent a district with multiple wells. BTW, there is a well right in the heart of Ground Zero in Inglewood.

Huh. how about that. Trust a "local" to know more than a New Englander... Good to know.


Something else I nearly forgot... For those suggesting that Kelly might leave with those who are or might depart, don't forget she shattered her ankle during the escape from Boulder. She's not going anywhere for a while yet. She may leave during a second wave of departures/deserters.

[Alizée]

I had a frustrating day so I did a quick 37-3 inspired doodle! Poor Angel. Still the punching bag, even in death.

2695

Note: I wanted to put this in the Fan Submitted Content > Fan Art thread but I couldn't remember how to do the damn "spoilers" tag. (Bless your soul, Nik. I know you told me before but I can't find the discussion we had on it.)

[EpiEpee]

First, congratulations to Mr. and Mrs. Wayland! I hope you have many happy years ahead.

Second, I think there is an interesting parallel going on between CJ and Riley right now. Both have lost loves (romantic or otherwise) in their life. But, CJ is handling it by pushing people away, and not really choosing to go after the main source of the problem, the zombies. Riley's response is more productive in my opinion, and I'm excited to see how her and Burt's storyline plays out. The ending scene is one of my absolute favorites of the series so far.

Third, assuming Riley and Burt do hunt down Scratch, I could see Pegs being used as a decoy to lure Scratch out into the open, but not actually participating further in any violence that may ensue. I'm throwing my hat fully in the Burt/Riley camp for the actual death-and I think they will do it together.

Fourth, really CJ, really?! Tanya saved her life, regardless of her perception of how she wound up in that situation. I understand there is a lot psychologically that goes into losing a limb, but her behavior is unacceptable. I can't find it now, but whoever said that this is really more about the fallout from Saul turning her down than it is the lie, I completely agree. Also, I think if she doesn't sit herself down to recover, we may be seeing some nasty complications in this recovery-that wound could still get infected badly, and it sounds like Tanya's at the edge of her supplies and know-how. And that's if she's even around the colony to help CJ.

[kdalton]

Okay, here we go. <br />
<br />
This entire chapter has been well-acted, well- executed, and involved a lot of catching people up to everything the different groups have been doing. The scene with Riley and...

[Hoff4D]

Everyone IS saying they see a lot of Gatekeeper/Marcus in CJ now...I understand people claiming too many similarities for this split to get covered up, but if it walks like a duck....

[pmchawk]

... until CJ flips out. I listened to all of Chapter 3 at least three times this summer. At no point did I hear Saul and Victor claim that the mallers had killed Sean. Saul said "the people that killed him are there." That's it. The source of the information that Sean arrived at the colony and later was killed came from Victor, who left before the mallers took the Colony over. So if he knew Sean was dead before he left, how could they have intimated that the mallers killed him?


Actually CJ asks point blank "so the prisoners got him." Saul responds with, "yeah, they got him." Chapter 31 part 2 at roughly the 6:50 mark.

[Hoff4D]

First things first: Congrats Mr and Mrs Kc!!!!
I see this being Michael's mindset now. In the fight, he feels like he's in the right place. Like he's making a difference and doing what he is supposed to do. He doesn't have to deal with the hard stuff in the "real world". Michael gets to be a soldier with other soldiers.

So, I see one split happening in the immediate future:
To Dunbar with Saul, Victor, Michael, Puck, Carl, Muldoon, and Robbins
In the Colony: CJ, Pegs, Kelly, Glenn and Colony crew

To be determined (either Dunbar or Colony)
Tanya, Datu, and Hope - Tanya wil be torn between Saul/Baby and the patients of the Colony (including CJ). Datu will want to go with Michael but will not want Hope to go into danger - Datu will not leave Hope.
Burt and Riley - They will side with (temporarily) which ever group seem to give them the best chance at revenge on Scratch. I'm leaning 75% to the Colony for now.
The helicopter - no good way to take it back up into LA but no desire to leave it in the Colony. May go, like someone else put it earlier, to LAX. But that may mean leaving it unattended for long stretches of time.

Ok, enough for now. I may have to recant some or all of this later....

Also - Great catch on the Crow, Grognaurd! I missed i completely....

I don't see Lizzy called out anywhere in the split prediction. You say 'torn between baby/saul' about tanya, makes it sound like you think lizzy stays at colony? Just curious

[scbubba]

I don't see Lizzy called out anywhere in the split prediction. You say 'torn between baby/saul' about tanya, makes it sound like you think lizzy stays at colony? Just curious

Good point. I meant to include Lizzie in with Saul and Co. I can't see Saul deciding to leave her at the Colony when he is being banished from it (as in never to return). I'll edit the post to add her to the Dunbar list.

And with Saul and Lizzie (and the baby) going to Dunbar, that will be a bigger pull for Tanya to go (since they need medical care for delivery and newborn).

All in all, it's going to put CJ and the Colony in an interesting position. And the Tower crew as well. At the end of the chapter we have the "Balance of Power" from the chapter title. Balance of Power implies an equal amount on all sides, in this case the crews of Michael and CJ. This equilibrium is about to get upset as the next few days unfold with Saul and Victor...

[nikvoodoo]

I had a frustrating day so I did a quick 37-3 inspired doodle! Poor Angel. Still the punching bag, even in death.

2695

Note: I wanted to put this in the Fan Submitted Content > Fan Art thread but I couldn't remember how to do the damn "spoilers" tag. (Bless your soul, Nik. I know you told me before but I can't find the discussion we had on it.)

[ spoiler ] CONTENT [ /spoiler ]

Just remove the spaces between spoiler and brackets and voila! Hidden text and pictures!

[Hoff4D]

I dunno guys. The whole Colony/Dunbar split, Who goes/Who stays thing seems too obvious as a major conflict based on CJ's grudge. Hopefully the Colonists are not so blind as to let the Military & Medical expertise leave based on one person's grudge. See how she used her new authority for personal use by telling the guys that the Colonists just elected her Empress. Talk about you benevolent dictators.

It just seems too simplistic for the conflict to result in that kind of split. Like everyone's been saying, I doubt Saul & Victor are gonna leave without saying why. When the reason get out, crap is gonna happen. This seems like the simplest course. I think KC is setting us up for crazy chaos just to reveal a simpler solution.

I understand this argument, but playing the advocate here, I think Saul/Victor will fill in the 'need-to-knows' (Michael, Lizzy, and Tanya) on why they ACTUALLY leave. Everyone else will be told Saul/Victor are leading the Recon mission for the offensive against Ink. Saul will convince Tanya/Lizzy to stay since all the hospital stuff is there, so it's best for the baby. They'll assure them of Dunbar's Safety so that once the baby's born, I think the Towerites will bail, but until then Saul/Victor will be allowed to go it alone. Sorry to repeat myself, but this will be Michael's plan all along....Dunbar. He just keeps the peace for now. Perhaps Burt/Riley will go with Saul/Victor since they need a chance to ground pound and hunt scratch.

[Hoff4D]

Lies of omission are still lies. Victor is very adept at this lying method thus far.

I like this episode. It makes my prediction heart warm and fuzzy. I've said Pete/Glenn would reveal Sean's demise to CJ because Victor and Saul certainly won't. Doesn't benefit them to do it. Speaking of liars, I buy Victor's apology re: Angel. It was genuine.

I am also doubling down on my theory that Scratch dies at Riley's hand and that Burt won't make it. This possibility just became about a 95% guarantee In my head.

CJ has displaced a metric boatload of anger. Think of what Riley said about angel...she's lost him again. CJ is going through the same thing but she has power which corrupts. There are millions of different punishments she could levy as leader but she's chosen the one that causes the most damage short of execution: banishment. I can understand why, but I feel like even she knows her reasoning is somewhat flawed. CJ didn't listen which resulted in CJ losing her leg. No one put her in that basement with Scratch but her. CJ assumed the Eastern Bay people killed Sean but never asked directly. Now she's mad about it.

Now as for the colonists: non resident exclusion? Really? It's so nice now that you've made the decision for them that you'll allow others to be involved. They really haven't learned a damn thing from the moment we've met them.

Saying it here. Burt, Riley, Scartch, Ink....all atop a mountain. Riley kills Scratch with an arrow to the un-scarred eye as she's atop Ink about to kill him(Because Ink is who raped scartch). Ink Jumps up, kills Riley. Burt get's a crocodile dundee sized knife and impales Ink as Ink impales Burt. They all die as the mountain they are on top of erupts, as it's a volcano anyways. The ash-winter caused by the eruption clears the ozone of the pre-historic earthquake induced Haze and eradicates the spread of the zombie virus. The eruption blasts Burt to a safe place, and a small drop of lava cauderizes his wounds and he survives having witnessed the end of it all to recount to Michael, and by association....us.

The End.

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm still a fan of CJ! As she said, people were doing nothing right. We saw the chapters before that not much is being done. But everyone, on the forum, is right she a planner not a leader. She probably thought sweet talk Tanya would keep her in line but I believe she doesn't know that Tanya and Saul are family. She set a net but doesn't know that the tower folk are a lot closer then she thinks.

And as Nik said a lie is a lie, and guess what?! They have consequences. People think they can lie and nothing will happen or it will blow over. But they are angry that it doesn't? Sorry, they made the choose to lie then they as made the choose for the consequence.

[clem131]

And as Nik said a lie is a lie, and guess what?! They have consequences. People think they can lie and nothing will happen or it will blow over. But they are angry that it doesn't? Sorry, they made the choose to lie then they as made the choose for the consequence.

I think we CJ haters (or Asshola, Queen of the Colons, as she shall be known henceforth) focus on the consequence of Saul lie that matters most: the safety and freedom of a lot of people, including a pregnant woman, and I would lie for that any day of the week. CJ's lost leg in my opinion is a consequence of her not listening to Saul and going in first, having a the redshirt shot in the process.
Somebody argued she wouldn't have been there in the first place, had it not be for Saul's lie, and that's correct: she would have been in Dunbar whatching DVDs with her cats while trying to have Saul abandon Lizzy. I find it very hard to find an angle to sympathize with her from the very beginning when she says to Tanya she crippled her and not a single thanks.

[UndeadSweeper]

I think we CJ haters (or Asshola, Queen of the Colons, as she shall be known henceforth) focus on the consequence of Saul lie that matters most: the safety and freedom of a lot of people, including a pregnant woman, and I would lie for that any day of the week. CJ's lost leg in my opinion is a consequence of her not listening to Saul and going in first, having a the redshirt shot in the process.
Somebody argued she wouldn't have been there in the first place, had it not be for Saul's lie, and that's correct: she would have been in Dunbar whatching DVDs with her cats while trying to have Saul abandon Lizzy. I find it very hard to find an angle to sympathize with her from the very beginning when she says to Tanya she crippled her and not a single thanks.

The problem with that logic is that you justify the lie by the result of what occur. What if the story went another way and the copter never made and as a result everyone die in colony because they were too busy defend themselves from the mallers? Would you blame that on Saul and Vic then?

Yes, what CJ did was her fault but that was base on a judgement call that pretty much it. And if you remember Saul also got shot right afterward on poor choice of run in as well.

Also Saul and Vic could had left on their own without CJ. Nothing was keep them from doing that beyond the idea that they need CJ.

Why is everyone,on the forum, jump on Michael and Vic lsame way they are on CJ since they are the ones that cause the whole Maller/Colony mess? BC we sure know that Colony remember who are fault.

[clem131]

The problem with that logic is that you justify the lie by the result of what occur. What if the story went another way and the copter never made and as a result everyone die in colony because they were too busy defend themselves from the mallers? Would you blame that on Saul and Vic then?

Not really, no. I'm following that logic since it's the logic followed by CJ ("Somebody else, not you, crippled me, the result is that I lost a leg, so it is your fault for lying to me"). I would actually focus more on the intentions. Saul and Vic wanted to do good, CJ didn't. Essentially, CJ is pinning Scratch's actions on Saul and Vic.


Yes, what CJ did was her fault but that was base on a judgement call that pretty much it. And if you remember Saul also got shot right afterward on poor choice of run in as well.

Surely that is again a consequence of CJ rushing in instead of waiting out for him.
I agree they did not need CJ, except they had no hope being just the two of them and she was hesitant to let them even call Irwin for help.


Why is everyone,on the forum, jump on Michael and Vic lsame way they are on CJ since they are the ones that cause the whole Maller/Colony mess? BC we sure know that Colony remember who are fault.
I had some problems understanding this, nobody on the forum is jumping on Michael and Vic the same way they are with CJ. Also, I do not get what BC is.

[UndeadSweeper]

Not really, no. I'm following that logic since it's the logic followed by CJ ("Somebody else, not you, crippled me, the result is that I lost a leg, so it is your fault for lying to me"). I would actually focus more on the intentions. Saul and Vic wanted to do good, CJ didn't. Essentially, CJ is pinning Scratch's actions on Saul and Vic.


Surely that is again a consequence of CJ rushing in instead of waiting out for him.
I agree they did not need CJ, except they had no hope being just the two of them and she was hesitant to let them even call Irwin for help.

I had some problems understanding this, nobody on the forum is jumping on Michael and Vic the same way they are with CJ. Also, I do not get what BC is.

Sorry, really need to hire a proofreader.

Why isn't everyone, on the forum, jump on Michael and Vic the same way they are on CJ since they are the ones that cause the whole Maller/Colony mess?
BC = Because

[IamPaul]

What another great episode! So much happened I could dance. I think Michael and the troops along with the remaining towerites will leave with Saul and Victor. CJ keeps the colony. That way there are 2 bases. All while Riley and Burt go Mad Max on the remaining Mallers. Love it!

[Nathan.Luiz]

Congrats Kc and Blaire!

Anyway, just going to have to call it now - Pegs to kill Scratch. There'll be some kind of situation where Riley and Burt use Pegs to access Scratch, then SHTF and Pegs has to kill Scratch herself.

[thisonegirl]

And with Saul and Lizzie (and the baby) going to Dunbar, that will be a bigger pull for Tanya to go (since they need medical care for delivery and newborn).

Do you really believe, if Saul leaves, that he would take Lizzie with him? I would imagine that he wouldn't because he would want her to be safe and he might not provide it. Then again, if I were Saul, I might take who I love with me if I knew I could protect them well.

[Grognaurd]

I know I am out there on a island, but do you think after getting Saul back Michael is just going to let him go? Yea, CJ spoke to Michael and gets the better of him. But, he just got the one-two...

[Alizée]

Grognaurd, can't rep you up at the moment so a thumbs up will have to do for now!

[thisonegirl]

Guess I'm on that island with you. I don't Saul and Michael are just going to separate again. Both of them constantly tried to find out if the other was alive while they were separated. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
That's...

[runs4theheckofit]

I still like CJ, crutches and all. It kind of sucks that she's kicking out Victor and Saul, but it does make for an interesting storyline. Don't get me wrong I think she's being a first class grade A...

[Footbutt]

talk about a roller coaster ride!

great opening chapter for the final season.

personally, i can see Saul possibly leaving out of guilt... without Lizzy, even. maybe just for now, though. Victor might not go so quietly, but i believe he might be permanently attached to Saul indefinitely.

Saul is by far my favorite character. he is ALWAYS looking out for the well-being of others, and even in all of his macho talk, he really does have a great heart.

so with that said, i think Saul's decision might be the most predictable:
he's going to find a way to appease CJ and still protect Lizzy/child, if/when he goes to Dunbar. He'll have others look after his girl and child. i can clearly see some parallels with when Lizzy was kicked out of the Tower: some people will know, others will find out a bit too late.

blah, blah... i can't wait for the next chapter.

[pmchawk]

There are only a couple of things I feel confident will come to pass. Saul, Victor, Burt and Riley will go to Dunbar. On what terms I don't know. The reasoning I feel that way is 2 parts, I don't see Burt and Riley seperating, and Saul thinks Burt can fix the 50 cal at Dunbar (37-1)

[Footbutt]

There are only a couple of things I feel confident will come to pass. Saul, Victor, Burt and Riley will go to Dunbar. On what terms I don't know. The reasoning I feel that way is 2 parts, I don't see Burt and Riley seperating, and Saul thinks Burt can fix the 50 cal at Dunbar (37-1)

either that, or there will be an "alliance" between the two holdouts.
CJ just said she never wanted to see them (Saul & Victor) again (paraphasing) but she won't be able to enforce complete incommunicado for the ones that stay at the Colony.

[SmokeyZombified]

Im going to throw this out there, I had a theory I put on the WND forum.

We know Scratch stole the SWAT van and Im sure there were some maps in there. It could be possible that Scratch and Co. are in Dunbar right now. That would be an interesting twist!

[pmchawk]

All because someone says something doesn't mean they mean it. Lets say Saul is mortally injuried would CJ feel no guilt about it would she turn him away from treatment? I think she would feel guilt and wouldn't turn him away. She actually says bye to him but not to victor. She still cares about him.

[mem]

Love this episode ! Quit building walls and repairing fences. Go out there and kick some ass ! What I have been waiting for! Happy Happy Happy !

[Robzombie]

I think CJ is the type that when she makes a decision it is not based on emotion but what she thinks is best. Yes it may be an emotional response to kick Saul out but how she handles it is with a lack of emotion is what I mean. She's made a decision, although maybe not entirely thought out and partially based on her anger, her follow through is with certainty. Once she's made her mind up, unless she can be properly reasoned with and persuaded to change her mind and if it results in directly affecting her she will change her mind but she does not respond to an emotional arguement. This is how she leads, and I think in part why I think she is an officer, reserve or reg's.

[Th3_T3ch]

Im going to throw this out there, I had a theory I put on the WND forum.

We know Scratch stole the SWAT van and Im sure there were some maps in there. It could be possible that Scratch and Co. are in Dunbar right now. That would be an interesting twist!

Scratch escaped from the colony before the SWAT van was taken. And on top of the the van was destroyed by the biters outside right before the attack happened.

[SmokeyZombified]

Scratch escaped from the colony before the SWAT van was taken. And on top of the the van was destroyed by the biters outside right before the attack happened.

Im re-listening right now, but I know for sure no one knows how Scratch escaped. The whole place was under siege, all we know is Scratch escaped and we don't know how

[fredrum]

I think CJ is the type that when she makes a decision it is not based on emotion but what she thinks is best. Yes it may be an emotional response to kick Saul out but how she handles it is with a lack of emotion is what I mean. She's made a decision, although maybe not entirely thought out and partially based on her anger, her follow through is with certainty. Once she's made her mind up, unless she can be properly reasoned with and persuaded to change her mind and if it results in directly affecting her she will change her mind but she does not respond to an emotional arguement. This is how she leads, and I think in part why I think she is an officer, reserve or reg's.

It seems to me that most of the decisions that she has made as of late have been based entirely on emotion. Going to the colony, going into the hospital after Scratch instead of waiting for Saul-all out of anger over Sean's death. Kicking out Saul and Victor-anger over being manipulated as well as rejection. I don't see how the decision to kick out Saul and Victor could have been based on any kind of logic whatsoever. Right now she is completely emotionally compromised and could potentially make even more horrible decisions and unfortunately has been put in a position where she can.

[Eviebae]

So, Isn't it interesting that they are fracturing over this or that drama instead of realizing they are all on the same team--humanity.

also, how do you think the ring will play in the story?

[fredrum]

So, Isn't it interesting that they are fracturing over this or that drama instead of realizing they are all on the same team--humanity.

I think a lot of it has to do with the complete lack of communication between the various factions that have come together under the collective "roof" of the colony. They all seem to be going ahead with what they think needs to be done without consulting anyone else. Nobody that is making any of these decisions has the full picture of whats going on and I think its going to blow up in their faces and someones going to get killed.

[Robzombie]

It seems to me that most of the decisions that she has made as of late have been based entirely on emotion. Going to the colony, going into the hospital after Scratch instead of waiting for Saul-all out of anger over Sean's death. Kicking out Saul and Victor-anger over being manipulated as well as rejection. I don't see how the decision to kick out Saul and Victor could have been based on any kind of logic whatsoever. Right now she is completely emotionally compromised and could potentially make even more horrible decisions and unfortunately has been put in a position where she can.

Oh for sure and i thought thats what i was kinda saying, but specifically what i meant was that she can basically be cold and matter of fact when dealing with people we think most average people might be showing more emotional turmoil towards, where she can be hard when dealing directly with people. Kind of like when getting fired, its all business baby, regardless of the emotions inside. Yes youre totally right about her 'actions' but shes a cold bitch one on one. I only brought it up because i think it hints to her background or training in leadership.

[kdalton]

I am going to go back and listen. If so, then I missed the plot hole back then. Because there is no way Victor would have known the mallers got Sean because he was dead before Victor left. If Saul had said, "The two we brought in said the prisoners killed him," then okay. If CJ, ever the thoughtful one, had given the timeline even a cursory look-see, she would have seen it.

For that matter, why wouldn't Saul have just said, "the two people running it when Victor left killed him to get control." Sorry, don't buy it.

Again, best wishes to the newlyweds. ;-) I am into my 23rd year of marriage. When you find someone who puts up with your crap and still sticks around, you marry her!

[Eviebae]

You know, I bet she was some kind of management type or Wedding Planner. If it was something that would earn respect for her being a leader, she'd tell people. Second thought, college professor.

[nio]

can anybody explain why CJ's kicked Saul and Victor out? I think I'm missing something here

[Grognaurd]

...Because there is no way Victor would have known the mallers got Sean because he was dead before Victor left. If Saul had said, "The two we brought in said the prisoners killed him," then okay. If CJ, ever the thoughtful one, had given the timeline even a cursory look-see, she would have seen it.

For that matter, why wouldn't Saul have just said, "the two people running it when Victor left killed him to get control." Sorry, don't buy it.



Victor does not say much; very much in character. Saul flys off the handle and makes all the leaps of logic; very much in character. CJ's logic seems to "breakdown" around Sean, we see this even more clearly now

It's not a bug, it's a feature! Just stay tuned for a two week break. /slump_shoulders

[Grognaurd]

can anybody explain why CJ's kicked Saul and Victor out? I think I'm missing something here

:: Putting on the tin hat ::

CJ has a fear of the family She has always been super cautious and observing but never engaging the mallers directly. Now she is fully committed without contigencies in place. Very vulnerable. She is as pissed at herself as she is at Saul and Vic and she is lashing out.

[scbubba]

Chapter 31-2 around 5:53

Victor: "A couple of survivors from this place made it to the Colony a while back. Two survived the trip there."
CJ: "Excuse me! You telling me this now?"
Victor: "Didn't matter before"
CJ: "And it does now? Why? Who was it?"
Victor: "Sean, Hope, and James. Sean and Hope were the only ones to make it there alive."
CJ: "Why did you wait til now to tell me this?"
Victor: "Like I said, it didn't matter"
CJ: "Why?"
Victor: "I... Well... It just.... "
CJ: "Sean's there?!?"
Victor: "No, not any more"
CJ: "Where is he now? Where?"
Victor: "He's dead."
CJ: "Then you're right. It doesn't matter. He's not there is he?"
Victor: "But his killers are."
CJ: "You and you. What do you know?"
Pete: "Don't get me involved in this!"
Glenn: "It's true. At least we think so. He got set up."
CJ: "So, the prisoners got him?"
Saul: "Yeah. They got him."
Victor: "We, uh, we didn't want to tell you before. We didn't think it mattered."
Saul: "Thought you only cared about yourself"
CJ: "That's not true"
Saul: "So, you on our team now? How many more reasons you want?"

Very clearly a manipulation by Victor and Saul to get CJ to the Colony. And very clearly a direct lie by Saul and a little less direct lie by Victor. But the intent is very clear....

[DogFromDuckhunt]

It seems to me that most of the decisions that she has made as of late have been based entirely on emotion. Going to the colony, going into the hospital after Scratch instead of waiting for Saul-all out of anger over Sean's death. Kicking out Saul and Victor-anger over being manipulated as well as rejection. I don't see how the decision to kick out Saul and Victor could have been based on any kind of logic whatsoever. Right now she is completely emotionally compromised and could potentially make even more horrible decisions and unfortunately has been put in a position where she can.

I'd say that's par for the course though. Lot of questionable decisions have been made just on people getting caught up in Saul/Lizzie's emotions. Minus him and Victor though, I think she'd be a good leader since she doesn't have a personal attachment to anybody else.

[nio]

thank you comrades, now it's clear

[fredrum]

Even the best leader cant stand alone if no one has their back (and hell, most of them probably have two legs). She just chose to send away the two people who know her best AND just so happen between...

[Robzombie]

I think for now it's natural that they will be feeling each other and everyone else out. It makes sense FOR NOW that CJ take the role of leader. Things will change and adjust. I have no doubt that...

[Grognaurd]

Chapter 31-2 around 5:53


CJ: "Then you're right. It doesn't matter. He's not there is he?"
Victor: "But his killers are."
CJ: "You and you. What do you know?"


I know the bias is that Sean and CJ had a thing, but my belief is it was a "Family" thing. She seems poised to accept Sean's death in this new world order. But, she flips hard when the word changes from killed to killers. Sounds a lot like Scratch and now Riley.

Along these lines, Kelly says looks like you were once married outside of the hospital in no place like home ( season 2 ) while waiting for Michael and Pegs. Could be he took off the wedding ring with the death of his wife. Maybe he had a family ring he removed when dealing with outsiders. He certainly is secretive

[thisonegirl]

I know the bias is that Sean and CJ had a thing, but my belief is it was a "Family" thing. She seems poised to accept Sean's death in this new world order. But, she flips hard when the word changes from killed to killers. Sounds a lot like Scratch and now Riley.


That is a really interesting viewpoint, and certainly nothing I'd ever thought of before. Good brain fodder.

[Red Shirt]

Along these lines, Kelly says looks like you were once married outside of the hospital in no place like home ( season 2 ) while waiting for Michael and Pegs. Could be he took off the wedding ring with the death of his wife. Maybe he had a family ring he removed when dealing with outsiders. He certainly is secretive

To my recollection, his dead ex-wife is one of the few things that Victor has been somewhat forth coming about. (After a tiny bit of prodding from Saul)(Ch. 31 3/3 @ 11:15)
"Took a while to get over her?" "Not So much... She was a bitch..." "She was like Frodo, man. Ring went on, evil came out."

Family ring however...

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there, <br />
<br />
now, about a week of cool-down later ... Have read a lot of good things on this forum and listened to the WND episode. <br />
<br />
Again: About CJ. <br />
<br />
(I still have a lot of trouble with her...

[Grognaurd]

To my recollection, his dead ex-wife is one of the few things that Victor has been somewhat forth coming about. (After a tiny bit of prodding from Saul)(Ch. 31 3/3 @ 11:15)
"Took a while to get over her?" "Not So much... She was a bitch..." "She was like Frodo, man. Ring went on, evil came out."

Family ring however...

You are right about Season 3, but i just wanted to draw attention to a Victor Ring reference in Seaon 2. First glance is just what it seems a wedding ring, but when leveraged with his hush hush on a family member fratricide it is worthy of a closer look. Remember he also makes a joke about the ambiguity of the Angel / Riley relationship and what basis does he have? A few hours in their company? To paraphrase Tardust, "Nope, not enough!" worthy of a closer look. Riley is upset, that is understandable. Riley going all Scratch and Victor's foreshadowing requires a closer look...

[Red Shirt]

You are right about Season 3, but i just wanted to draw attention to a Victor Ring reference in Seaon 2. First glance is just what it seems a wedding ring, but when leveraged with his hush hush on a family member fratricide it is worthy of a closer look.

Was that when MPK went to the Colony the first time around and Kelly drove Victor crazy outside the hospital? Might need another re-listen...

[Grognaurd]

Was that when MPK went to the Colony the first time around and Kelly drove Victor crazy outside the hospital? Might need another re-listen...

Yea, when she is peppering him with questions

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hm, I listened to the episode just recently - and I have some issues with it. The acting does not bother me, it is indeed excellent as usual. The dialogue is great. But in my opinion, CJ rise to power seems a bit forced. What we learnt in the second part of the first episode of season 4 is that her condition was very life-threatening, there was a high tension concerning her surgery. And now, well, wham, bam, there is this consensus among the colonists to elect her to be the leader of the colony. A couple of days ago, she was dependent on intensive medical care and now she is Mrs Jack of all trades, commanding and organizing the colony. It is hard to believe.

I hope that the colonists are happy with her rule which reminds me of this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdbug_mxKks

[trubkir]

Well I'm gonna go in a different direction with my theory. I haven't had time to nail it down but I am thinking the time line of the story is at about a week before Christmas. There is no way that Michael can let either Saul, and/or Victor go to the other tower. Michael will use the Christmas Spirit angle, plus the it's just plain dumb to send two able bodied defenders away angle, to change CJ's mind. I think Michael has the political chops to sway CJ. Sergeants in my opinion have to be somewhat political by nature. If CJ can't be persuaded she will have second thoughts because Saul and Victor will have nothing but time on their hands to scour all her carefully saved information at Dunbar Towers. CJ can't keep control of Michael if she can't be objective enough to bury her grievance with Saul and Victor for the better of the group. Even if Michael can live with that sign of weakness in the leader I bet Puck and Robbins will have plenty to say about their new Commander in Chief.

[kdalton]

Went back an re-listened to it again. I stand corrected. Never let it be said I didn't admit I was wrong. I thought I was wrong once before, but I was mistaken.


Chapter 31-2 around 5:53

Victor: "A couple of survivors from this place made it to the Colony a while back. Two survived the trip there."
CJ: "Excuse me! You telling me this now?"
Victor: "Didn't matter before"
CJ: "And it does now? Why? Who was it?"
Victor: "Sean, Hope, and James. Sean and Hope were the only ones to make it there alive."
CJ: "Why did you wait til now to tell me this?"
Victor: "Like I said, it didn't matter"
CJ: "Why?"
Victor: "I... Well... It just.... "
CJ: "Sean's there?!?"
Victor: "No, not any more"
CJ: "Where is he now? Where?"
Victor: "He's dead."
CJ: "Then you're right. It doesn't matter. He's not there is he?"
Victor: "But his killers are."
CJ: "You and you. What do you know?"
Pete: "Don't get me involved in this!"
Glenn: "It's true. At least we think so. He got set up."
CJ: "So, the prisoners got him?"
Saul: "Yeah. They got him."
Victor: "We, uh, we didn't want to tell you before. We didn't think it mattered."
Saul: "Thought you only cared about yourself"
CJ: "That's not true"
Saul: "So, you on our team now? How many more reasons you want?"

Very clearly a manipulation by Victor and Saul to get CJ to the Colony. And very clearly a direct lie by Saul and a little less direct lie by Victor. But the intent is very clear....

[kdalton]

CJ rising to power is not forced to me. She brought guns - the item the original colonists had pined for so they could free themselves. She organized the defense even though gravely wounded. She lost a leg.

[Red Shirt]

Michael will use the Christmas Spirit angle...

...I bet Puck and Robbins will have plenty to say about their new Commander in Chief.

As long as Christmas Spirit is only used for leverage to get them to stay and nothing more... the last time Michael used a holiday as a surreptitious means to get his way, people died. Micheal's luck at this point is going to be that CJ turns out to be Buddhist.

Don't forget Chief Muldoon... I'm sure the three of them will absolutely have plenty to say about their potential new leader. The first and primary of which is going to be, "Who the fuck do you think you are lady?" I suspect that Muldoon may say something along the lines of, "I may out rank Cross, but he has had better ideas than Kimmet and I'm alive for it so far. Frankly all I want to do is fly my bird anyway." Thus, he may fall in line with only a little in the way of ruffled feathers.

The two juniors, Puck and Robbins on the other hand... Puck in particular, are going to have a lot to say on the matter. Puck may throw in a comment along the lines of, "I don't remember all the names, but I remember the pictures of the people on the wall in my chain of command back at Irwin. Until you get to the top, I don't remember their being any civvies. On whose authority do you think (blah, blah, blah)." This could end up being the plot leverage to get CJ to divulge her past.

[al'Thor]

Can someone please tell me why CJ kicks Saul and Victor out? Is it just bc they lied about what happened to him? I don't get why she would be mad even if they did lie to her, didn't he get killed by zombies and the Gatekeeper said he killed him or w.e? I'm confused. I am so shocked that she thinks that she can just kick them out, like it want Saul and Victor that saved you from being alone etc. not to mention Lizzy is about to have Saul's baby!!!! How does she think she can just do that!? And for what!? Please someone email me or reply with al'Thor noticable so I can tell you are relying to me, I'm new to this site so I don't know how it works. Thanks everyone!

[pmchawk]

Weigh what she was told with what she knows/doesn't know.

She was told that Sean was killed by Mallers in a Koo. She blames Micheal indirectly for Sean's death but doesn't hold that against him.

What she found out/knows is the Mallers did not kill Sean and Saul needed her help to break into the colony to get to Lizzy. There for she was manipulated like a pawn.

What she doesn't know is what she was told initially was the truth just the 1 detail wasn't true, who.

If she knew everything she would still be pissed, but... Actually, I think she would still kick them out for lying to her. Information is very important in her eyes so those who give her bad info isn't worth anything to her.

Thor, you should know women forget nothing and they hold grudges and when they are pissed at you they will do anything to hurt you. They are vengeful and won't think twice about hurting you if you piss them off.

[LiamKerrington]

Hello.


Can someone please tell me why CJ kicks Saul and Victor out? Is it just bc they lied about what happened to him? I don't get why she would be mad even if they did lie to her, didn't he get killed by zombies and the Gatekeeper said he killed him or w.e? I'm confused. I am so shocked that she thinks that she can just kick them out, like it want Saul and Victor that saved you from being alone etc. not to mention Lizzy is about to have Saul's baby!!!! How does she think she can just do that!? And for what!? Please someone email me or reply with al'Thor noticable so I can tell you are relying to me, I'm new to this site so I don't know how it works. Thanks everyone!

Hey al'Thor,

you are right: it is hard to stomach CJ's action. And it really boils down to this: she feels betrayed by Saul and Victor. There is no trust between her and the two guys. Just remember, how things went:

In the very first place it was Saul who asked CJ and Victor to let down the distrust and secrecy. Do you remember his bargain with CJ about the information in her safe and working together? It is the level of distrust and animosity of strangers in a world which fell apart. And CJ gave in. They started to work together and to team up. And later it was Saul who made CJ act by using a lie to fuel her anger and lead her into her current tragic situation. Let's get into detail here:
In the first place CJ tried to argue Saul and Victor out of any action against the Colony. Also she fell in love with Saul, but he let her down, which might have been a certain burden for CJ after all. Even when the baby came up, CJ tried to reason, if this was the baby of someone else. So in the beginning she did everything to stay away from the Colony.
Then, when they started to plan their actions, it was CJ who gave really everything - it was for her that the rebellion actually worked pretty well; she put a lot of effort into the preparations and spent all/ a lot of her guns in order to make it work. Then, when everything was in turmoil, she even fought Scratch, probably because she still felt something for Saul. And the result of this was her leg being cut off.

Learning afterwards that everything that happened roots in the single lie by Saul and Victor. CJ gave everything, lost almost everything. Her dissapointment is huge, and can hardly be measured by anyone. So, yeah: I think CJ's reaction is OK and even logical, although it is a pure psychological thing. It does not make sense in a way that two able bodies and fighters are out of the game - for now. And Lizzy's baby can be taken care for by other people devaluating Saul's role in it.

So, all in all ... Maybe that helps.
Bets wishes!
Liam

[Merlin1274]

Hello.



Hey al'Thor,

you are right: it is hard to stomach CJ's action. And it really boils down to this: she feels betrayed by Saul and Victor. There is no trust between her and the two guys. Just remember, how things went:

In the very first place it was Saul who asked CJ and Victor to let down the distrust and secrecy. Do you remember his bargain with CJ about the information in her safe and working together? It is the level of distrust and animosity of strangers in a world which fell apart. And CJ gave in. They started to work together and to team up. And later it was Saul who made CJ act by using a lie to fuel her anger and lead her into her current tragic situation. Let's get into detail here:
In the first place CJ tried to argue Saul and Victor out of any action against the Colony. Also she fell in love with Saul, but he let her down, which might have been a certain burden for CJ after all. Even when the baby came up, CJ tried to reason, if this was the baby of someone else. So in the beginning she did everything to stay away from the Colony.
Then, when they started to plan their actions, it was CJ who gave really everything - it was for her that the rebellion actually worked pretty well; she put a lot of effort into the preparations and spent all/ a lot of her guns in order to make it work. Then, when everything was in turmoil, she even fought Scratch, probably because she still felt something for Saul. And the result of this was her leg being cut off.

Learning afterwards that everything that happened roots in the single lie by Saul and Victor. CJ gave everything, lost almost everything. Her dissapointment is huge, and can hardly be measured by anyone. So, yeah: I think CJ's reaction is OK and even logical, although it is a pure psychological thing. It does not make sense in a way that two able bodies and fighters are out of the game - for now. And Lizzy's baby can be taken care for by other people devaluating Saul's role in it.

So, all in all ... Maybe that helps.
Bets wishes!
Liam

Until I recently relistened to the series I had forget Saul lied to her too about that. I thought he was just going off what Victor had said.. The outlook has changed about her some but I still do not like her. I did not like her in the beginning cause I am sure she let the air out of Victors tank. I also believe she has been manipulative form the beginning.. She has used them for her own purpose. So when it was time for Saul to ask for the favor to be returned, she did not.. So they lied to manipulate her.. So as far as I am concerned on that aspect they are even..
Her leg was her fault. Saul told her not to go in alone.. Biggest turn off from her for me was her comment to Tanya about crippling her.

[Unit]

Like has been mentioned, CJ's rise to power was WAY too quick and forced. Yes she brought guns and tried to help the Colony (they don't know her motive behind it but ignoring that) but I have a hard time believing that even the foolish colony who allowed themselves to be controlled by Marcus and then Gatekeeper and then the mallers, would vote and elect a person as leader who is drugged up and passed out on an operating table close to death. The scene where Tanya first learns about it is supposed to be less than 24 hours after her surgery. So even if the vote just happened minutes before, as far as the colony knows CJ is bleeding out and dying on the bed in there. That doesn't seem like even a remotely logical option on their part. I think it is only done to further the story line along. We are getting to the end of the show and we need to make some things happen, be them realistic or not.

Other issue I have is not with this chapter but the story in general now... where is all the ammo coming from? After 8 months in a Zombie Apocalypse that is including multiple wars and shootouts will another band of marauding convicts, which happens to be located in a part of the US known for is incredibly strict gun and ammo laws and no ammo manufacturers... and considering that 2 areas of the map that likely held what little ammo is even left were nuked recently, and whatever ammo was left is getting shot out of the mini-gun on the chopper at about 5,000 rounds per minute... how would anyone even have anything left? It doesn't make sense and whenever I hear the .50 cal or mini-gun firing it snaps me out of the story.

[Red Shirt]

Something I neglected to add to my post above (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4765-Chapter-37-3-Balance-of-Power&p=64308&viewfull=1#post64308), is a guess at a coming episode name: "Chain of Command."

[LiamKerrington]

Hello there,


Other issue I have is not with this chapter but the story in general now... where is all the ammo coming from? After 8 months in a Zombie Apocalypse that is including multiple wars and shootouts will another band of marauding convicts, which happens to be located in a part of the US known for is incredibly strict gun and ammo laws and no ammo manufacturers... and considering that 2 areas of the map that likely held what little ammo is even left were nuked recently, and whatever ammo was left is getting shot out of the mini-gun on the chopper at about 5,000 rounds per minute... how would anyone even have anything left? It doesn't make sense and whenever I hear the .50 cal or mini-gun firing it snaps me out of the story.

I am not so certain. Just consider a couple of "facts from the WA-verse":
The zombocalypse spread within 2 two days through the complete areas of LA. And only like four major groups "survived" by hiding and fighting. The groups were of various sizes, with the Colony and the Mallers having been the bigger groups; the Mallers had their size based on the people held in custody AND by enslaving other people; the Colony grew in size by allowing more and more people to get involved in the survival-campaign. With all four groups in mind we speak of likely less than 1000 people from the LA-area. Ok, we had several hundreds, maybe even several thousands of people being rescued by Irwin and Boulder in order to find shelter far away from the hotspot. So all in all there were less 1% of the people in and around LA who survived the zomb-onslaught.
As for the survivors who remained in LA: each group had its scavenging groups, which searched all the places for things you need - food, water, dipers, the latest Playboy magazin, batteries,..., AND guns and ammuniation. Guns and ammo they would find in any police station, gun-shop like Burt's Locked and Loaded, and many (if not all) military, and coast-guard facilities etc. Ok, you might argue that during the first two days a lot of the ammo was spend to fight the horde; and you may also argue that a lot of ammo and guns would be brought to Irwin or Boulder (or other safe spots); and still: you would have things left. And considering the bits and pieces in relation to the low number of survivors I would felt hard pressed to believe that the survivors in LA would run out of (sh)it sooner than later - especially because the considerations so far do not account for any guns held by private people - no matter how tight gun control regulations are in LA.
Also keep in mind: The number of events in which a lot of ammo was used to fight (the War; any bigger zomb-encounter; the taking over of, the rebellion within, and finally defending the Colony) is quite low; in any other situation only very little amounts of ammo was used to shoot solitary or small numbers of zombies, which in return would be no stress or burden on the ressources ...

What do you think about these thoughts?
Best wishes!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

So, Isn't it interesting that they are fracturing over this or that drama instead of realizing they are all on the same team--humanity.

also, how do you think the ring will play in the story?

Interesting that you should mention the ring. It has an image of the Borromean Rings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borromean_rings). Three interconnected rings with outward facing arrows. Remove one ring and the bond for all of them is broken. http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3446-Chapter-s-31-Artwork-The-Ring&highlight=borromean+rings

[al'Thor]

Thank you for the response. I still don't see any reason for kicking Vic and Saul out. What the people in the group need to realize is that humanity is close to the end, acts such as lying (as long...

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there, <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I have no reason to disagree with you on this one. But ever since we listen to WA - and basically listening to/ reading/ watching other zombie-stories - it almost always boils down...

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Along with comments made about ammo. I agree that it is far fetched for all this ammo being used without the explanation on where it comes from. Similar to Battlestar Galactica, where the hell are they getting all this food, ammo and other necessities.

In my opinion, the access to firearms and ammonition is plausible. There are no wild firefights on a weekly basis. Although this may sound slightly biased - the story takes place on NRA home soil. It might be a cliché but I guess that it is easier to acquire automatic weapons and enough ammunition than some alcohol or porn. Yeah, we liberal and firearms rejecting Europeans will be pretty screwed when z-day happens.

[Choagy]

Firstly, congrats to the newly weds from Bonnie Scotland :yay:

Now to the serious bit :)

CJ is a bufty ( Scottish vernacular for a somewhat less than nice person :) )

She left Victor essentially without a pot to p**s in when his B.A. set ran empty on the recce a while back. Now she takes the moral high ground regarding Shaun :mad: Jeez I thought only my good lady was that mendacious/vindictive/hormonally challenged :)

Saul was right not to p*mp her. If he was no good she would have told everyone :rolleyes:

Anywhoo , night night from Bonnie Scotland folks and be nice to each other :)

Choagy FFCUK The SPFL (Copyright)

[Unit]

Hello there,



I am not so certain. Just consider a couple of "facts from the WA-verse":
The zombocalypse spread within 2 two days through the complete areas of LA. And only like four major groups "survived" by hiding and fighting. The groups were of various sizes, with the Colony and the Mallers having been the bigger groups; the Mallers had their size based on the people held in custody AND by enslaving other people; the Colony grew in size by allowing more and more people to get involved in the survival-campaign. With all four groups in mind we speak of likely less than 1000 people from the LA-area. Ok, we had several hundreds, maybe even several thousands of people being rescued by Irwin and Boulder in order to find shelter far away from the hotspot. So all in all there were less 1% of the people in and around LA who survived the zomb-onslaught.
As for the survivors who remained in LA: each group had its scavenging groups, which searched all the places for things you need - food, water, dipers, the latest Playboy magazin, batteries,..., AND guns and ammuniation. Guns and ammo they would find in any police station, gun-shop like Burt's Locked and Loaded, and many (if not all) military, and coast-guard facilities etc. Ok, you might argue that during the first two days a lot of the ammo was spend to fight the horde; and you may also argue that a lot of ammo and guns would be brought to Irwin or Boulder (or other safe spots); and still: you would have things left. And considering the bits and pieces in relation to the low number of survivors I would felt hard pressed to believe that the survivors in LA would run out of (sh)it sooner than later - especially because the considerations so far do not account for any guns held by private people - no matter how tight gun control regulations are in LA.
Also keep in mind: The number of events in which a lot of ammo was used to fight (the War; any bigger zomb-encounter; the taking over of, the rebellion within, and finally defending the Colony) is quite low; in any other situation only very little amounts of ammo was used to shoot solitary or small numbers of zombies, which in return would be no stress or burden on the ressources ...

What do you think about these thoughts?
Best wishes!
Liam

I can understand the groups getting consolidated and bands going out to to scavange but I don't see them getting very much stuff. A lot of the types of firearms that they are supposedly using were banned or heavily regulated in CA in the 90s so not a lot of private citizens would have them. A lot of what you find in peoples homes will be fixed mag and hunting stuff, some handguns and shotguns, but I doubt a lot of AR/M-16 rifles. Those who do have them likely have them in safes as well, and except maybe for latch and some of the maller crew, probably not a lot of safe crackers out there.

As for going to police stations, law enforcement does have a lot of weapons, but they don't stockpile ammo. For years they actually have been severely short stocked. As a shooting enthusiast who grew up in southern california it always annoyed me that you often couldn't find ammo because law enforcement got first dibs. They couldn't source enough on their own through wholesale channels and so they would send officers around to local sporting goods stores to buy out their entire inventory. My brother in law who is a sheriff out their said they also dropped down the requirements for how often officers had to qualify because they didn't have enough ammo for the officers to train and shoot with.

So by now to find more ammo they are likely having to scout pretty far out and are not likely to find the calibers of what they need for the guns they are supposedly shooting. Granted it is a show, not reality and you have to take some things with a grain of salt, just something that has bugged me in more recent episodes... no mention of ammo shortages and unloading with firearms that shoot in the thousands of rounds a minute like it's no big deal.

[Lifeboard2]

Does any one know what type of gun Bert may be working on in the colony

[Unit]

Does any one know what type of gun Bert may be working on in the colony

It is the .50 cal from the hummer if I am not mistaken. Assuming it is an M2.

[Shaggers]

So...I know this is late and the next chapter is already done, but I just now finished 37-3 and just had to vent a little.

I have never had a character in a story go from my absolute favorite to absolute most hated so fast. CJ really showed her true colors this episode. And all the people from the colony and boulder (I'm assuming those are the 2 main groups who "voted" CJ into "power") really showed how stupid they are. I mean really? I know she's a great planner and all that, but you're going to vote someone into power who just lost their leg? Do you realize how emotionally traumatizing (as well as obviously physically traumatizing) that is? You really want someone going through that to lead you right now? Dumbasses. And even apart from that, CJ is a terrible leader. Now I see how Dunbar fell in the first place. You're going to kick two of your strongest out because they had manipulate you emotionally because you're too much of a bitch to help in the first place? Way to let your emotions rule you CJ. I don't care what she's going through emotionally right now, being such a good planner she should know better. AND THEN she has the nerve to think Micheal is going to want to help her now? As soon as he finds out (He doesn't know yet, right? I don't think he does, but I was already kinda fuming at this point lol so I wasn't paying the most attention) he's gonna be like "Uh...see ya." Or there's going to be a major power struggle. I would like to hope that if someone points out all these flaws to the people who want CJ in power they will see why they're wrong but idk...they should be able to see that without anyone pointing it out so maybe they're hopeless anyway. I say f*** 'em and the original crew plus the other military guys go and do things up right at Dunbar.

Whew...that's the end of my rant lol. Just had to get that off my chest. Now I'm gonna listen to the next chapter and Kc will probably make me feel stupid for what I've said here. Or maybe I'll feel validated. Either way...damn good story Kc, I've never been this emotionally involved in a fictional story or the characters within.

[scbubba]

So...I know this is late and the next chapter is already done, but I just now finished 37-3 and just had to vent a little.

I have never had a character in a story go from my absolute favorite to absolute most hated so fast. CJ really showed her true colors this episode. And all the people from the colony and boulder (I'm assuming those are the 2 main groups who "voted" CJ into "power") really showed how stupid they are. I mean really? I know she's a great planner and all that, but you're going to vote someone into power who just lost their leg? Do you realize how emotionally traumatizing (as well as obviously physically traumatizing) that is? You really want someone going through that to lead you right now? Dumbasses. And even apart from that, CJ is a terrible leader. Now I see how Dunbar fell in the first place. You're going to kick two of your strongest out because they had manipulate you emotionally because you're too much of a bitch to help in the first place? Way to let your emotions rule you CJ. I don't care what she's going through emotionally right now, being such a good planner she should know better. AND THEN she has the nerve to think Micheal is going to want to help her now? As soon as he finds out (He doesn't know yet, right? I don't think he does, but I was already kinda fuming at this point lol so I wasn't paying the most attention) he's gonna be like "Uh...see ya." Or there's going to be a major power struggle. I would like to hope that if someone points out all these flaws to the people who want CJ in power they will see why they're wrong but idk...they should be able to see that without anyone pointing it out so maybe they're hopeless anyway. I say f*** 'em and the original crew plus the other military guys go and do things up right at Dunbar.

Whew...that's the end of my rant lol. Just had to get that off my chest. Now I'm gonna listen to the next chapter and Kc will probably make me feel stupid for what I've said here. Or maybe I'll feel validated. Either way...damn good story Kc, I've never been this emotionally involved in a fictional story or the characters within.
Oh boy are you gonna feel so conflicted after the next 3 episodes.... :rolleyes: