Wnd #55 [Archive] - Forum for We're Alive

Hoff4D

Aug 26th, 2013, 11:29 AM

Oh yeah believe me....this one is gettin' covered! I can't wait to listen to it when I'm not walking around the streets of NYC/in a chinese restaurant.

The NYC streets actually run THROUGH chinese restaurants? that must be one wide-ass buffet line.

Jokes aside, shorthand theories from previous threads:

Dunbar is finally mentioned to Michael. He's informed that there are some supplies there. In 36 Michael notes that they only get attacked in large numbers. All this coupled with the ongoing "CJ plans, Michael executes" mantra, and CJs impending amputation I think naturally leads to CJ planning a separation of the groups into formidable supply lines once she's coherent, running the show from her hospital hold up, defended/cared for by Tonya and Saul, necessitating Lizzy to stay for a hospital pregnancy scene, and obviously Saul can't be without his mucho macho man, Vicky. I imagine the largest group stays at the colony with the helicopter, a mid-size group enroute to Dunbar with it's pre-set defenses, and a smaller team running Recon between safe houses with the other .50 Cal if it is repaired.

This might give us a tie into the Maller storyline as they have been mentioned to know where Dunbar is, so if Scratch and Tardust made their way to Dunbar, there would another climactic scenario in Dunbar...My assumptions being at least Pegs, Riley, and Burt going to Dunbar, allowing us to have a resolve of all the ways they individually tie in to Scratch. I can't imagine Michael letting Pegs go far from him again, but Michael excels at surprises, so maybe he just lets Puck or someone else go as his watchful eye over Pegs.

Also: Polar bear cavalry

Cabbage Patch

Aug 26th, 2013, 11:34 AM

Also: Polar bear cavalry

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2wgb4J2-0y0/UTw0Pg9UHFI/AAAAAAAAB2U/sggd2YLgulI/s640/Canadian+Polar+Bear+Cavalry+(6).jpg

Malador

Aug 26th, 2013, 11:37 AM

After listening a few times it seems like the little one says "die, *stuttering* die..... DIE" . I don't think Scratch is very far from the Colony, her need for revenge won't let her give up on killing Burt/Pegs, she's likely in a building nearby watching, perhaps the same one the Saul, Victor and CJ used to plan their attack.

Hoff4D

Aug 26th, 2013, 11:37 AM

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2wgb4J2-0y0/UTw0Pg9UHFI/AAAAAAAAB2U/sggd2YLgulI/s640/Canadian+Polar+Bear+Cavalry+(6).jpg

This is just....well. THIS^

Bravo *slow clap*. CBP always delivers

scbubba

Aug 26th, 2013, 12:29 PM

Theory I started working on in the Episode thread....

I'm torn about CJ. Half of me says she's gonna have horrific leg amputation surgery (that will make the autopsy scene seem like a nice picnic) and then become Colonel CJ: Human Mastermind. The other half says that she will have horrific leg amputation surgery (see above) and then die on the table. Michael will get the blame because of the homemade chloroform. This will drive him nuts blaming himself and it will also drive a wedge between him and most of the Colonists/Mallers still around. This will cause Michael and a few of Our Heroes to depart the Colony and head for Dunbar to plan an offensive on their own. The left-behind Colonists will eventually be attacked again and a few of our friends will make it out alive to reunite with Michaels crew....

Ok. I'm really leaning toward the CJ dies and Michael gets the blame. Probably divide Michael and Saul, at least for a little while, since Saul's negative reaction to the chloroform idea was so strong.

Anyway, feel free to discuss.

and +1 for the polar bear cavalry!

Tahirih

Aug 26th, 2013, 03:41 PM

Because CJ would feel so useless without being able to have legs, I can see CJ try and convince Tanya to experiment with zombie blood and her "cure" to give her enough zombie to get her legs back. I can even see Tanya say no, and CJ just contaminate herself, warning others to shoot her if it goes wrong. Would she completely turn, or would they find another way to fight INK?

(The way you say my name (Tahirih) is, Tah-hooray!)

Arch_Will

Aug 26th, 2013, 03:50 PM

i'd like to see how the colonists attitude towards michael will be... will the coup with gatekeeper be explained that absolves michael from all blame.. he is after all only a tiny catalyst in a plan that was already being concocted by gatekeeper & Co. So the colonists uprisal is not really Michaels fault.

Brave to CBP for the polar bear cavalry...

Cabbage Patch Challenge:

Turtle Artillery

Cabbage Patch

Aug 26th, 2013, 04:07 PM

Cabbage Patch Challenge:

Turtle Artillery

Challenge accepted:

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs16/f/2007/132/6/1/Blastoise_cloloured_by_Awesome_AD.jpg

Extra credit, a Korean Turtle Ship, which was one of the first cannon-armed warships:

http://www.thepirateking.com/images/ships_turtle3.jpg

Arch_Will

Aug 26th, 2013, 04:13 PM

well played.. well played!

*stands to ovate*

LiamKerrington

Aug 26th, 2013, 04:35 PM

Hello.

As I mentioned on the episode-thread: This first episode seems to be packed with foreshadowing big time - see there.

But I have another thought ... Amy.

Amy was hurt by zombies; she only spoke of a scratch, but how true or false is this what she says? Considering the time between the initial attack on the Colony and the hours afterwards it came to my mind that Amy might have had certain "slow-turner"-qualities. So what is it that makes her "special" - or in a much broader sense: Why is it that slow turner seem to show up in the Colony more frequently than anywhere else?
Keep in mind: With Fernando and even with Tommy we had to perfect examples for quick turning; and throughout the whole show the quick turning was normal - in the beginning as well as as late as in in Boulder ... So: When was she hurt? And if she was hurt during the first attack hours ago (during chapter #36), then why did the process of her turning take so long until Tanya took care of it.

Best wishes!
Liam

Witch_Doctor

Aug 26th, 2013, 04:41 PM

Judging from some comment in the forum you would think that there is something Freudian concerning Michael and fighting zombies. After a tough days work he falls asleep for days.
1) First night of outbreak.
2) Long nap after surgery (Possibly due to anesthesia)
3) First day at Fort Irwin
4) First day back at the Colony.
A couple of people suggested that it was due to some sort of zombie proximity, but I'm guessing his Necro-Narcalepsy is just an adrenaline crash. A sort of 'OK, someone else is looking after things now' induced relaxation.

Possibly, there were many other people in tha room and we know the place is light on drugs and yet they have slept right through it so far. I am not stomping my feet and saying get within a foot of them and it is sleeping beauty, but the behavior is odd and repeatable.

A similar example i never included was being close to Fernando. OMG, WE ARE SURROUNDED. Let's take a nap

Hey Arthur LaMarche - more sleeping theory fodder in Episode 37-1!

Michael and Burt again. But enough of a reasonable doubt (like all the others) to say "maybe not"!

I'm totally intrigued by your theory on this. I'd like to sign up for your newsletter! :D

The best guess timeline has the outbreak on Wednesday AM. Lizzy shows up early Thursday AM. Michael sleeps to Friday AM. One long day and one restless night does not justify 24 hours of not sleep, but out cold unconscious, there was no wakin' you Sarge. This just screams there is more here. Matrixing can totally be my bad, but it is also good writing to hide plot aspects in plain sight with a mild misdirection. It's magic

I think the reason Michael slept so long is that after the long day of clearing the tower of Zombies he tried to sleep the first night with his back to the stairwell door and didn't really sleep the first night.

Lizzy and Todd came to the tower a day later so they had one less night of sleep

Kalani was waiting for death and fearful of what horrible things would happen to his daughter because he failed, as a parent the Depression would be overwhelming. I normally sleep 6 hours or less a night but if I have a bout with depression I can sleep 18 hours a day if my wife doesn't force me to get active.

Burt's place is a little farther from the water works than the tower so it might have lost water pressure, BUT your toilet has a gallon or two of clean water in the tank, and some more in the bowl if you get desperate.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/newartwork/map/WA_MapPoster5Lower.jpg

I love to play Devil's advocate but I STILL think you have a stong case for the idea that fighting off an airborn attack of the virus/bateria/nanobots/microscopic maggots causes someone to have to crash for 2 to 3 days.

Hmm.... I just thought of microscopic maggots .... need to start a new thread

Good observation on the sleeping aspect. Hadn't thought about that connection. Could be PTZD (Post Traumatic Zed Disorder).

And +1 for the Captain Fancypants reference.... :)

Michael meets Lizzy and Todd at the door with a zombie. I do not believe that because Michael had a hard day clearing the tower and then suffered cat naps at the door can justify sleeping another 24 hours especially when Saul and Angel try to wake him. There was no waking you, Sarge. Said Saul

Lizzy arrives and Riley puts he to bed. She will be alright... But, when Riley asks her to grab the litter box so the cat won't shit on the sofa, Lizzy does not no where the room is. I infer that she also must have been groggy and did not understand the sleeping arrangements even she had been there 36 or more hours

Burt, did Burt's shop lose water pressure unlike the rest of LA? I think his dehydration is caused by his being knocked out by the contagion, not that he passes out because he is dehydrated.

Kalani was messed up even before drugs are mentioned.

Others. I will never be a fan of Hollywood's bop them on the head and have people out for minutes to hours and then clear as a bell. Nope, I think there is more going on. You might be right, but I see repeating patterns and think they are part of story weave.

Witch_Doctor

Aug 26th, 2013, 04:48 PM

LiamKerrington

Aug 26th, 2013, 05:03 PM

There could be some significant lag time between contact with a Little One and turning. The soldiers at the crash sight, the survivor at the medical check point, (Tanya mentions that it was the second or third time it happened that day) and Roman a examples compared with the speed that Fernando started to change. Then again, Tommy took several minutes too. Also, Riley mentioned varying turning times from the flower shop.

Which is true; but having several specifically mentioned victims on which the turning took a few or even more minutes does not establish a rule - at least not the general case, right? :p
And the slow-turner-subject is one of the many - maybe even important - things to be discussed on the show. They became important with Tanya mentioning them; they are important with all our theories regarding Tanya, Saul, and maybe even little Henry in terms of a certain blood-type or blood-factor or genetic quality of this family-blood-line, which may have the potential to slow down, if not stop, the zeeh.factor.

We don't know, when exactly Amy was hurt - and how actually. It might have been just a few minutes before she was brought to Tanya's medical center; but it even could have been the few hours Michael mentioned, which passed between the initial zombie-attack on the Colony and the last ones being killed by the soldiers. So if the second case or something between both extremes might be true for Amy, then she could or should be considered a slow-turner. So: What would make her different from the average guy next door being either insta-deathed by zombies or turned into one in a few seconds up to minutes? And how it comes that any case of "slower" turning zombs have a direct link to The Colony?

Ok, Tommy took some more minutes, and he had nothing to do with the Colony; but is his case so obviously different from the average zombie-turning? I don't think so, because his mood and attitude changed rather quickly back then - right from the helpful young guy to an aggressive moron.

So, these things keep my mind busy right now ...

Best wishes!
Liam

scbubba

Aug 26th, 2013, 05:12 PM

Trying to recall how long Tanya's initial "slow turner" took. Was it hours or days before they put him down?

All the other examples were minutes of elapsed time, I think. Amy was probably hit in the 2nd wave (assuming - no proof) so it may have benn as little as 20 mins if she got injured right before the Little Ones went back over the wall and then got hunted down. So maybe normal turn times are from seconds to tens of minutes and slow tun times are in days....

Doesn't get us any closer to the "why" right off, but might be important.

Also, did Tanya treat the slow turner immediately or some time after the turn started? How long after? Time to go do some digging.

Duffusmonkey

Aug 26th, 2013, 05:50 PM

Arch_Will

Aug 26th, 2013, 06:09 PM

scbubba

Aug 26th, 2013, 06:18 PM

as far as the Michael sleeping hypothesis, can we not just call a spade a spade and assert that he fell asleep because he was exhausted? dont know bout anyone else.. but that kind of happens to me after i've had a long day zombie slaying...... O.o

In the WA universe, sometimes a spade is a spade and sometimes it is an opening into the whole cause of a world wide Extinction Level Zombie event.....:D

scbubba

Aug 26th, 2013, 06:24 PM

Challenge accepted:

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs16/f/2007/132/6/1/Blastoise_cloloured_by_Awesome_AD.jpg

Very well played. Up for another one?

Giraffe snipers. Go! :D

Cabbage Patch

Aug 26th, 2013, 06:56 PM

Giraffe snipers. Go! :D

Challenge accepted:

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2011/301/b/a/giraffe_sniper_cover_n01_by_lukkyss51-d4e7yz8.jpg

Arch_Will

Aug 26th, 2013, 07:00 PM

ooo i want to see this one :P:cool:

Arch_Will

Aug 26th, 2013, 07:00 PM

well holy mother shitballs!!!

wtg cabbage!

scbubba

Aug 26th, 2013, 07:50 PM

Challenge accepted:

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2011/301/b/a/giraffe_sniper_cover_n01_by_lukkyss51-d4e7yz8.jpg

:omgomg:
I bow before your awesome might, CBP! My only wish is to one day study at your feet.....

Witch_Doctor

Aug 26th, 2013, 08:08 PM

Which is true; but having several specifically mentioned victims on which the turning took a few or even more minutes does not establish a rule - at least not the general case, right? :p
And the slow-turner-subject is one of the many - maybe even important - things to be discussed on the show. They became important with Tanya mentioning them; they are important with all our theories regarding Tanya, Saul, and maybe even little Henry in terms of a certain blood-type or blood-factor or genetic quality of this family-blood-line, which may have the potential to slow down, if not stop, the zeeh.factor.

We don't know, when exactly Amy was hurt - and how actually. It might have been just a few minutes before she was brought to Tanya's medical center; but it even could have been the few hours Michael mentioned, which passed between the initial zombie-attack on the Colony and the last ones being killed by the soldiers. So if the second case or something between both extremes might be true for Amy, then she could or should be considered a slow-turner. So: What would make her different from the average guy next door being either insta-deathed by zombies or turned into one in a few seconds up to minutes? And how it comes that any case of "slower" turning zombs have a direct link to The Colony?

Ok, Tommy took some more minutes, and he had nothing to do with the Colony; but is his case so obviously different from the average zombie-turning? I don't think so, because his mood and attitude changed rather quickly back then - right from the helpful young guy to an aggressive moron.

So, these things keep my mind busy right now ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Trying to recall how long Tanya's initial "slow turner" took. Was it hours or days before they put him down?

All the other examples were minutes of elapsed time, I think. Amy was probably hit in the 2nd wave (assuming - no proof) so it may have benn as little as 20 mins if she got injured right before the Little Ones went back over the wall and then got hunted down. So maybe normal turn times are from seconds to tens of minutes and slow tun times are in days....

Doesn't get us any closer to the "why" right off, but might be important.

Also, did Tanya treat the slow turner immediately or some time after the turn started? How long after? Time to go do some digging.

If this helps: Tanya says, in Chapter 29 Part 3, that there were cases of people turning slowly. What usually takes minutes or seconds can take days or up to weeks. She only goes into specifics regarding one slow turner but on two occasions mentions that there were several.

Y'all are right in that there is no telling when she was infected. Questions abound.
1) According to Micheal's description, her wounds sound like they could have been scratches. Maybe bites and or blood contact works faster than scratches.
2) Maybe Inklings infect at a slower rate.
3) If the speed of infection varies because of the location of the victim ( L.A. vs Colony vs Ground Zero ) with Ground Zero having the fastest followed by LA, then why did the victims in Boulder turn with lightning speed? The Boulder victims were the farthest from the Ground Zero Hot Spot.

Malador

Aug 26th, 2013, 09:28 PM

With Amy(edited to clarify) being in the hospital, isn't there a possibility that Tanya slipped her the cocktail that she and Saul had taken? It would serve as a control of sorts to see if its the medicine or something in the family genetics.

About Michael sleeping for long periods, each of those situations involved alot of physical and mental stress to him beforehand, which I think could justify the heavy sleep periods.

Osiris

Aug 26th, 2013, 09:36 PM

So . . . Saul gonna give CJ a transfusion or am I daydreaming?

Osiris

Aug 26th, 2013, 09:37 PM

P.S. I'm pretty sure you guys are all drunk.

clem131

Aug 26th, 2013, 11:50 PM

Arch_Will

Aug 27th, 2013, 03:45 AM

Undo my dislike for the above post.. Damn smart phone and chunky fingers. Grrrr. I agree,that the,omission of this is now should be discussed as well. It is a significant part of the narration of the story. It has been one of the welcoming constants, and now even that has changed.

cabbage patch challenge: Meerkat Infantry.

scbubba

Aug 27th, 2013, 03:46 AM

Amy infection: I tought we settled that: during the autopsy Tanya notes the little one has self-inflicted wounds. They "poison" their own nails with their blood and infect with the scratches. I agree that until now, with the one exception of the slow turner who bit Tanya, we had only fast turning. Which is what made the fall of Boulder so unconvincing to me, people turning after more than 24h in a car (plus other convenient accidents). Funny enough, Amy's own slow turning makes sense now in light of the fact that slow turners were in the convoy.
I think we should discuss the absence of the "this is now" line from Michael's initial speech (plus he seem to stammer on "didn't"). It is a significant difference that sets this season apart, KC does not do things like these randomly, he usually is very deliberate and takes great care to chisel even the smallest details.

I noticed the missing "This is now" from Michael last night on a 3rd listen. Not sure what to think of that at the moment but it is pretty obvious in it's absence. I used to always think that the line "That was then. This is now" meant that he started fearing death when Z-Day happened and he saw the Zeds. The missing "this is now" in this episode has me wondering when he did start fearing death - right after Z-day because he didn't want to become a Zed, after getting involve with Pegs because he had something to live for, or after the whole ordeal that WA covers because of something we don't know of yet?

Or, and I'm just spitballin' here, the Water Works? :tinfoil:

Cabbage Patch

Aug 27th, 2013, 07:57 AM

cabbage patch challenge: Meerkat Infantry.

Challenge accepted:

http://products.drct2u.com/content/images/products//ow/ow073/b01ow14601ahuge.jpg http://products.drct2u.com/content/images/products//ow/ow146/b01ow14650whuge.jpg

YetAnotherBloodyCheek

Aug 27th, 2013, 10:13 AM

nikvoodoo

Aug 27th, 2013, 10:29 AM

I rarely know what's going on but this thread is making me question my reality....

Bullethead

Aug 27th, 2013, 10:55 AM

On the thought that the first zombie said "We're Alive"

A lot of Forum members think they heard Little One #1 say "We're alive" before it started saying "die, die". Could this be an indication that some element of the zombies', or at least the Little Ones' humanity has survived?

I've noted this before, and you can call me a pessimist but i simply cannot back the idea of turned Zombies being able to be "cured". There is just too much that a human being cannot recover from that a Zombie has endured. Mal-Nutrition, Brain inactivity, missing limbs! Am I the only one who can not see a way this can be "cured"?

If it did say "we're alive" my guess would be that it was referring to the Banner on the first tower that said "We're Alive". Perhaps this one recognized Michael, Victor, Saul. I would wonder though how this one could have read the banner then but its supposed maker Pinstripe couldn't read numbers to open the front door then.

scbubba

Aug 27th, 2013, 10:56 AM

I rarely know what's going on but this thread is making me question my reality....

Oh it's real, all right. A little too real..... :squint:

Litmaster

Aug 27th, 2013, 01:11 PM

What hasn't been mentioned yet are Michael's ominous words just after the hunting party: "But it didn't matter now; what we faced here couldn't compare with what we faced in Boulder and Ft. Irwin... or so we thought."

This seems to indicate some greater horror yet to be encountered, something even more terrifying than hundreds of Little Ones pouring over the walls, and seems to hint at the heart of this whole epidemic. What will our heroes find when they again visit The Devil's Workshop?

Witch_Doctor

Aug 27th, 2013, 01:17 PM

Challenge accepted:

http://products.drct2u.com/content/images/products//ow/ow073/b01ow14601ahuge.jpg http://products.drct2u.com/content/images/products//ow/ow146/b01ow14650whuge.jpg

I'm beginning to think that Cabbagepatch is like CJ, with a stash of EVERYTHING imaginable so he can post pictures of them.

pmchawk

Aug 27th, 2013, 01:39 PM

Any thoughts on what pegs is doing since everyone else is being useful but her? We find out what everyone(hunting little ones, watching Lizzy, and working at the hospital) is doing outside of Pegs, Scratch and Tardust.

Oh, and I wonder if cabbage patch can find a navy seal seal.

Witch_Doctor

Aug 27th, 2013, 02:13 PM

My first thought, when i heard it, was that it was doing a bit of mimicry. I thought TOWTM was mimicking Saul when he said, "It's Paul" and Pegs when he said "Help us" when he got into the Tower. All I know now is that when ever I listen to the talking Inkling I have a mental image of The Star Wars Bounty Hunter, Bossk.
Admiral Piet, "Bounty hunters! We don't need their scum"
Inkling, "Die die die."

2650

Cabbage Patch

Aug 27th, 2013, 02:47 PM

...I wonder if cabbage patch can find a navy seal seal.

Challenge accepted, but let's make this the last one for this thread, it's way off topic. I'll start a new thread for just this subject.
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4721-CP-s-Militarized-Animal-Menagerie

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bAXOsVpjVn0/UZYcpNWtAOI/AAAAAAAAHy4/ibY9wZFPCpw/s320/navy_seals.jpg

And meet a real US Navy SEAL (Dog) with their new high-tech combat vest

http://navyseals.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/robodog-620.jpg

Arch_Will

Aug 27th, 2013, 04:25 PM

bravo cabbage, bravo

Witch_Doctor

Aug 27th, 2013, 05:35 PM

Regarding Amy's infection, I predict that the method of transmission will now become a critical topic for the survivors. They are right on the cusp of realizing that bites and blood exposure are not the only way that the INKLINGS can infect. Remember that Amy kept insisting that she wasn't bitten. I doubt that she was simply trying to hide her contact with a Zombie because she could have just as easily said that she was cut in a fall. She, somewhat, sounds convinced that she couldn't even have been infected by the scratch. On top of that, Micheal questions Tanya about what she knew of Amy's injury. He sounds dubious to the idea that a scratch, alone, could explain her turning.

Amy infection: I tought we settled that: during the autopsy Tanya notes the little one has self-inflicted wounds. They "poison" their own nails with their blood and infect with the scratches.

Gonna admit that I missed reading that the Inklings' self inflicted wounds were used to 'poison' their nails like blowgun darts tipped with tree-frog butt-juice, but clem131 is onto something big. This is evidence of a game changer. The purpose of the Inklings is to spread the specialized infection. Sorry NikVoodoo, but here's your much maligned FrankenZombie.

Anyone catch Micheal's foreshadowing comment? "...but we were stronger now. What we faced here couldn't compare to what we left behind in Bolder or Fort Irwin; or so we thought." Yeah, right now they think that the 5 remaining Little Ones (Tanya is keeping score) are easier to deal with than 150K but Mike is foreshadowing that the SHTF later. Zombie Tag, anyone?

AtomicHamster

Aug 27th, 2013, 05:41 PM

We're Not Dead,

Great show about a great show.

Here is my prediction about who is reading the Journals that are telling the story. It appears that at some point Michael gets to sit down and compile all of the journal into one complete narrative of what happened. As heard in season 3 when Michael said that the events portrayed in the injury and taking to boulder of Kimmets neice. I think that Libby and Saul's son is reading this recap journal of the events to his children as a bed time story years after the end of the series.

This would be an Awesome ending and show that the struggle of the character was not in vain.

The Mighty AtomicHamster will now pause so every one can bask in the glow of Awesomeness!

nikvoodoo

Aug 27th, 2013, 06:49 PM

Let me clarify: FrankenZombie is the theory that TOWTM builds a zombie out of parts of dead people which is just patently ridiculous in my opinion. That's all I've ever meant by that. Having an inkling poison it's own claws to spread an infection is plausible.

Putting my arms on your body with Osiris's head and Ra1th's legs is, to me, implausible and too far fetched for this or any story. I can suspend my disbelief but that is a deal breaker.

Witch_Doctor

Aug 27th, 2013, 07:18 PM

pmchawk

Aug 27th, 2013, 10:44 PM

Ok. I regret it. That navy seal is freaking me out.

scbubba

Aug 28th, 2013, 04:25 AM

WD and clem131 discussions about Little One scratches spreading the disease are good stuff. I agree that Amy seemed to honestly think she had nothing to worry about by being scratched. Thinking back to our introduction to the Colony and to Fort Irwin, everyone was concerned with bite marks. And you know damned well that the triage for the aftermath of the recent battles at the Colony was checking for bite marks. Nobody thought the scratches would be an issue. Well, now they know better....

Although neither Michael not Tanya makes a big deal out of it. Tanya obviously has to get back to doctoring and Mikey just takes a nap. Then when Michael wakes up, it's straight to the scene with Tanya and Saul working on CJ. So, maybe it'll come up after that.

The idea that the Little Ones are intentionally poisoning their finger nails is indeed a game changer. This points to a major intent to turn humans into new Little Ones as opposed to hunting and killing. We saw how effective the Little Ones were in Boulder and Fort Irwin.

We still don't have solid intel on the turn vs kill decision (or instinct?) of the Zeds but this line of thinking points to a very big intent to turn people vs kill them.

Brings up an interesting, potential, conundrum. How do you balance things when your food source is also your means of propagating the bloodline? How many do you turn vs how many do you keep in the pantry for dinner?

Bullethead

Aug 28th, 2013, 04:39 AM

Tanya seems to have her hands full. I mean had Michael not stopped by there would have been an ADLO in the infirmary and Tanya is caputz. She's too busy to check the background of everyones injury.

Needs to be someone on guard with her. I am surprised Michael didn't worry about this.

Witch_Doctor

Aug 28th, 2013, 05:27 AM

....Although neither Michael not Tanya makes a big deal out of it. Tanya obviously has to get back to doctoring and Mikey just takes a nap. Then when Michael wakes up, it's straight to the scene with Tanya and Saul working on CJ. So, maybe it'll come up after that.

The idea that the Little Ones are intentionally poisoning their finger nails is indeed a game changer. This points to a major intent to turn humans into new Little Ones as opposed to hunting and killing. We saw how effective the Little Ones were in Boulder and Fort Irwin.

We still don't have solid intel on the turn vs kill decision (or instinct?) of the Zeds but this line of thinking points to a very big intent to turn people vs kill them.

Brings up an interesting, potential, conundrum. How do you balance things when your food source is also your means of propagating the bloodline? How many do you turn vs how many do you keep in the pantry for dinner?

+1 SCBubba

Tough balance to keep indeed. I do remember that Captain Long was partially eaten (presumably by the turned Chinook crew). Those kind of body changes requires a lot of calories. Just makes you wonder what the end-game is here.

Also, anyone notice that the Little Ones are also smart? They run & hide, lured soldiers towards the tree-line etc... like a hunter-prey type of intelligence.

Witch_Doctor

Aug 28th, 2013, 05:40 AM

Just thought of something. If the Inklings can talk and not just mimic then that would mean a level of consciousness that involves communication, i.e. the spreading of ideas, and also, other complex thought processes. If #1 was expressing its wish for Michael's death then that means:
1) It knows what death is.
2) It knows that it has a purpose, it's not just some eating/killing machine.
3) It knows that it can share its thoughts with others (hints that it is self-aware).
4) It knows, and likely uses words and language. (Still wondering how TOWTM is teaching them)
5) It has contempt for humans and can tell the difference between humans and its own kind.

nikvoodoo

Aug 28th, 2013, 05:45 AM

Let's not forget we've potentially heard Little One's talk before. Lizzy's recording has a zombie talking. Once again, I do not have the luxury at present time to go back and check the voice but it's something we've potentially heard before.

There is also a possibility that it's TOWTM at the arena on that recording. Maybe it's just me and my assumptions about what the Little One's are and what they are capable of...I've kinda always thought they could talk. #1 talking just before being killed didn't throw me for too much of a loop for some reason. They were too advanced and too specialized to think they wouldn't be able to.

LiamKerrington

Aug 28th, 2013, 07:01 AM

Hi there,

I think the trick with the Little One's speaking is that this is the first time we have a confirmation about it; before that it was not unlikely that they were capable of speech, but there was nothing pointing towards it; in fact any time we knew the survivors had to deal with Little Ones they made their weird noise-cries without articulating words in a language we or the survivors would know.

About the consciousness part: We know about zombs - not only Little Ones, but actually all zombs - that they behave with a certain, though small level of consciousness. In the garage of the tower Angel and Saul fought a regular zomb which hid for a short time; the Behemoths protected their heads against incoming gunfire; one of the zombs - maybe a smart one, maybe a regular zomb - observed one of the lines between the Tower and the neighboring building and "learned" that this would be kind of a way to get into the Tower; well, the Smart Ones, maybe Randy, and especially Ink behaved very consciously; the only two monsters which might be questionable about it are the runners and jumpers ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Hoff4D

Aug 28th, 2013, 08:10 AM

With Amy(edited to clarify) being in the hospital, isn't there a possibility that Tanya slipped her the cocktail that she and Saul had taken? It would serve as a control of sorts to see if its the medicine or something in the family genetics.
...

I wanted to add to this, Note that Tanya put the syringes into an IV already in place, not just jabs her with a syringe. With Tanya already saying once that they are low on supplies, why would someone with bandaged cuts be administered an IV?....unless perhaps Tanya threw her cocktail into Amy to see if it helps against the Inklings. As confirmed earlier by colonists, they never saw advanced kinds, and sauls contamination was not from a little one....So Tanya just learned that her anti-biotic cocktail only works on the regulars?

just some food for thought

Hoff4D

Aug 28th, 2013, 08:12 AM

Challenge accepted, but let's make this the last one for this thread, it's way off topic. I'll start a new thread for just this subject.
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4721-CP-s-Militarized-Animal-Menagerie

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bAXOsVpjVn0/UZYcpNWtAOI/AAAAAAAAHy4/ibY9wZFPCpw/s320/navy_seals.jpg

And meet a real US Navy SEAL (Dog) with their new high-tech combat vest

http://navyseals.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/robodog-620.jpg

Never did I think my ramblings of the north having the militia to fight the zeds leads to us tapping yet ANOTHER brilliance of CBP, well played sir. I know you wanted to move this to another thread, but I felt it necessary to give you at least one more nod *slow clap*

Hoff4D

Aug 28th, 2013, 08:21 AM

I isolated the clip of the little one saying "We're Alive" So everyone is listening to the same thing, It sounds like it says We're Alive to Me!

Victor heard it say We're alive so the is NO Arguing it, it is FACT!

http://podcastnerd.com/Zombies_Alive.mp3

Appreciate the snippit for everyone to listen to over and over again and dissect, but I still think the only confirm-able word in there is the last word "Die" anything before that is hard to discern, but I dont think we get any confirmation from victor on what he hears either really

LiamKerrington

Aug 28th, 2013, 08:32 AM

Hi there,

I wanted to add to this, Note that Tanya put the syringes into an IV already in place, not just jabs her with a syringe. With Tanya already saying once that they are low on supplies, why would someone with bandaged cuts be administered an IV?....unless perhaps Tanya threw her cocktail into Amy to see if it helps against the Inklings. As confirmed earlier by colonists, they never saw advanced kinds, and sauls contamination was not from a little one....So Tanya just learned that her anti-biotic cocktail only works on the regulars?

just some food for thought

excellent observation. Yes, true: Amy had an IV on her, although she did not seem to be heavily hurt. Maybe it was an IV with something to treat a shock or something? I am not a doctor. In what cases do people get IVs? I would think in cases of dehydration or in order to provide a steady flow of pharmaceuticals or shit, right?

About Amy's woundings: Amy just said she was not bitten, only scratched; she did not say she was attacked by a Little One - so actually we don't know what/who exactly infected her. Tanya applied several syringes into the tube connected to her arm in order to kill her. And Tanya also said she did not know how Amy got wounded or what caused her woundings, because did not tell Tanya either. So why would Tanya apply special antibiotics like the ones on Saul on Tanya without knowing what to treat or why to treat Amy with so many others who - according to Michael - were in a much worse condition? And right now I would not want to go as far as to think of Tanya playing a game here and hiding something from Michael or the others - like doing experiments or shit.

Best wishes!
Liam

LiamKerrington

Aug 28th, 2013, 08:33 AM

Appreciate the snippit for everyone to listen to over and over again and dissect, but I still think the only confirm-able word in there is the last word "Die" anything before that is hard to discern, but I dont think we get any confirmation from victor on what he hears either really

Yeah, Victor only asked: "What? What was that? You hear ... ?"

Hoff4D

Aug 28th, 2013, 08:41 AM

Which is true; but having several specifically mentioned victims on which the turning took a few or even more minutes does not establish a rule - at least not the general case, right? :p
And the slow-turner-subject is one of the many - maybe even important - things to be discussed on the show. They became important with Tanya mentioning them; they are important with all our theories regarding Tanya, Saul, and maybe even little Henry in terms of a certain blood-type or blood-factor or genetic quality of this family-blood-line, which may have the potential to slow down, if not stop, the zeeh.factor.

We don't know, when exactly Amy was hurt - and how actually. It might have been just a few minutes before she was brought to Tanya's medical center; but it even could have been the few hours Michael mentioned, which passed between the initial zombie-attack on the Colony and the last ones being killed by the soldiers. So if the second case or something between both extremes might be true for Amy, then she could or should be considered a slow-turner. So: What would make her different from the average guy next door being either insta-deathed by zombies or turned into one in a few seconds up to minutes? And how it comes that any case of "slower" turning zombs have a direct link to The Colony?

Ok, Tommy took some more minutes, and he had nothing to do with the Colony; but is his case so obviously different from the average zombie-turning? I don't think so, because his mood and attitude changed rather quickly back then - right from the helpful young guy to an aggressive moron.

So, these things keep my mind busy right now ...

Best wishes!
Liam

I'm not sure how this is contributing to the theory, but I did want to point out somewhere in the first season I believe (cant go back yet to pinpoint it, but I'm sure one of the geniuses here will find it) where Michael defends someone who had a run-in saying "No no, it happens faster than that!" which I've always viewed as foreshadowing of the zeds eventually turning into a slow-turning situation, or one single slow-turn instance that would bite us in the ass later...just some story fodder to back up where we are and came from.

Now about Amy's turning, I'd like to tap the Autopsy in 33-3 ~11min mark, on the table Tanya notes the color of the Inkling's eyes as "Eyes: Hemorrhage in the left, the right fine, both light brown and normal, not like the other biters we've seen up close"
Yet michael notes on Amy's turning: "with every blink her eyes got darker and more cloudy..."

I'm not sure where to go with this, but we've definitely noted Inklings as having normal eyes, and Amy's are at least seemingly abnormal, unless they were in mid-change to brown and got cloudy first, but that's doubtful. We've always theorized the scratches come from inklings and the bites/blood contact from normals, as far as turning goes. But this might punch a hole in that, or we're over-analyzing Amy and she was actually bitten by a normal and lying. But as we all say, Kc doesn't do these things accidentally...

Hoff4D

Aug 28th, 2013, 08:47 AM

Hi there,

excellent observation. Yes, true: Amy had an IV on her, although she did not seem to be heavily hurt. Maybe it was an IV with something to treat a shock or something? I am not a doctor. In what cases do people get IVs? I would think in cases of dehydration or in order to provide a steady flow of pharmaceuticals or shit, right?

About Amy's woundings: Amy just said she was not bitten, only scratched; she did not say she was attacked by a Little One - so actually we don't know what/who exactly infected her. Tanya applied several syringes into the tube connected to her arm in order to kill her. And Tanya also said she did not know how Amy got wounded or what caused her woundings, because did not tell Tanya either. So why would Tanya apply special antibiotics like the ones on Saul on Tanya without knowing what to treat or why to treat Amy with so many others who - according to Michael - were in a much worse condition? And right now I would not want to go as far as to think of Tanya playing a game here and hiding something from Michael or the others - like doing experiments or shit.

Best wishes!
Liam

I'm with you, I'm not sure what would require an IV short of dehydration or drugs, neither of which would be necessary from a bad scratch (in these times when supplies are rought), but I'm no doctor.

I also don't want to think Tanya is just trying shit and hiding it from Michael, but she has ALWAYS lied to him a little bit, right? She knew Saul was the injured and her son, but didnt tell Michael, just went with him to the tower. She lied about the 'scratch' she has, she actively asked michael previously if she could do some experiment back at the tower...etc. I don't want to paint tanya in a negative light, but I think she has her own beliefs on the outbreak and doesn't want to build anyones hopes up until she has some certainty. She's been analyzing the outbreak since we met her.

LiamKerrington

Aug 28th, 2013, 08:50 AM

Now about Amy's turning, I'd like to tap the Autopsy in 33-3 ~11min mark, on the table Tanya notes the color of the Inkling's eyes as "Eyes: Hemorrhage in the left, the right fine, both light brown and normal, not like the other biters we've seen up close"
Yet michael notes on Amy's turning: "with every blink her eyes got darker and more cloudy..."

Wow. Again: Excellent observation. This combined with the theory that Little One's spread their shit via scratches ... OK, Looks like there are enough hints towards Amy being wounded by a Little One ...

As for the slow and fast turning: Fast turning takes place within seconds to a few minutes. Good examples for this are Tommy and fernandy. About "Slow Turners": we know those only through the reports by Tanya. And now - again - there is a new case of such a slow turner from the group of the Colony. Tanya mentioned several cases of slow turners when she was in custody in Irwin. And we only have cases of "slow turning" exclusively in the Colony. So the question would be: Why is that so? Is it the location? Or did Tanya and other medical personell treat the Colonists right from the start and thus make some more immune to the zombo-agent?
Now: Tanya told Michael she did not know anything about Amy's wounding; so did she treat Amy against zombo-agents, and if so: why without knowing?

I also don't want to think Tanya is just trying shit and hiding it from Michael, but she has ALWAYS lied to him a little bit, right? She knew Saul was the injured and her son, but didnt tell Michael, just went with him to the tower. She lied about the 'scratch' she has, she actively asked michael previously if she could do some experiment back at the tower...etc. I don't want to paint tanya in a negative light, but I think she has her own beliefs on the outbreak and doesn't want to build anyones hopes up until she has some certainty. She's been analyzing the outbreak since we met her.

Ok, haven't seen it. But I would feel bad if I challenged you on this one. Excellent observation ... Keep going and I will ask the forum to give you the special title of "WA Observer 1st Grade" ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Hoff4D

Aug 28th, 2013, 08:53 AM

...As for the slow and fast turning: Fast turning takes place within seconds to a few minutes. Good examples for this are Tommy and fernandy. About "Slow Turners": we know those only through the reports by Tanya. And now - again - there is a new case of such a slow turner from the group of the Colony. Tanya mentioned several cases of slow turners when she was in custody in Irwin. And we only have cases of "slow turning" exclusively in the Colony. So the question would be: Why is that so? Is it the location? Or did Tanya and other medical personell treat the Colonists right from the start and thus make some more immune to the zombo-agent?
Now: Tanya told Michael she did not know anything about Amy's wounding; so did she treat Amy against zombo-agents, and if so: why without knowing?

Best wishes!
Liam

Yeah, I've seen the slow vs fast and am also confused as to the why, I just wanted to add that Michael boastfully once claimed how fast it happened, and looking back on it from the present...it was quite the foreshadowing, just something to note

Hoff4D

Aug 28th, 2013, 09:01 AM

Ok, haven't seen it. But I would feel bad if I challenged you on this one. Excellent observation ... Keep going and I will ask the forum to give you the special title of "WA Observer 1st Grade" ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Yeah, once in awhile I stray from the crackpot theories (read: Polar bear cavalry, Prehistoric dinosaur zombie haze released by earthquake, Ink was the one who raped scratch...etc) and actually notice something worth mentioning, lol...

In addition to all this, I think Tanya's random experimenting and CJs experimenting at Ground Zero will culminate into some sort of resolution at the end. Like CJ said when Victor and Saul went there "Nothing.....is something"....The cracks and her teams that have been there has probably caused her to take notes no one knows about, she needs to survive long enough to say this stuff to Tanya, and Tanya needs to combine that with her tests and fight the pandemic. THEN CJ can die I think. Just like CJ with Victor and Saul monitoring the Colony, she never told Vic/Saul the possible holes she noticed until she had a plan, I think Tanya's the same way with the turners. She's trying things and has ideas, but won't tell everyone until she's certain.

Short version: CJ & Tanya combine their "Dont tell until its certain" ways and save the world, but CJ still dies. Sorry.

Hoff4D

Aug 28th, 2013, 12:30 PM

I cant stay away...I keep relistening.

So...I know everyone has pointed out the struggle of who will head up the colony since it was brought up to michael that no ones runs the place right now, but I think we should pay attention to the sentence before that: "hey you said you wanted us to bring back that little ones body...they made us leave it at the gate..." followed by Michael's "It's alright, it's not like it's going anywhere". Foreshadowing anyone? I mean, we've had normals bring back the bodies of others during the night, now we've got smarter zeds roaming about with the bodies of their brothers in arms strewn about. Not sure what it will lead to, but I think it's something. I know Nik isn't much for the frankenzombie theory, but they could come back to gather parts!

Also to go with that is when Michael is asked "Hey, where's my kill" and he responds, "It wasn't dead, But we left it outside the gate"

We've got 2 Inklings bodies outside our walls. If Ink sent out troops to recover normal bodies, what would he do for his pride and joy bodies?

EpiEpee

Aug 28th, 2013, 01:40 PM

I'm with you, I'm not sure what would require an IV short of dehydration or drugs, neither of which would be necessary from a bad scratch (in these times when supplies are rought), but I'm no doctor.

I also don't want to think Tanya is just trying shit and hiding it from Michael, but she has ALWAYS lied to him a little bit, right? She knew Saul was the injured and her son, but didnt tell Michael, just went with him to the tower. She lied about the 'scratch' she has, she actively asked michael previously if she could do some experiment back at the tower...etc. I don't want to paint tanya in a negative light, but I think she has her own beliefs on the outbreak and doesn't want to build anyones hopes up until she has some certainty. She's been analyzing the outbreak since we met her.

There are any number of reasons an IV could be used. As somebody pointed out earlier, it keeps an open line for drugs, for taking blood, and for replacing fluids (Blood or saline). It's possible Amy had lost enough blood from her scratches that Tanya was giving her saline or Ringer's solution to replace at least some of her volume. As far as drugs go, some drugs can only be administered by IV or that the only formulations they have left at the colony are IV formulations of drugs that also have an oral form. If they are as low on supplies as indicated before, it seems reasonable to me that they would have used the oral drugs previously, holding onto the IV formulations for a worst case scenario which we are now starting to reach.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Tanya had been hoping to keep Amy from turning, and thought she could while keeping everybody else safe. I don't think she would put everybody at risk-especially because she would know in a triage situation like this that she wouldn't be able to keep as close an eye on Amy as she would need to.

Arch_Will

Aug 28th, 2013, 03:19 PM

well i think Amy's screening process is evidence that Nurse Britt the Triage expert is alive and well and operating within the colony.

because of the whole fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me game, this is perhaps evidence of a Zombie conspiracy. Nurse Britt could well be a Zombie sympathiser... an "operative" so to speak.. perhaps a pawn gifted with the art of subterfuge and planted by TOWTM as a catalyst for the spread of the vile infection.
Nurse Britt is the Cat amongst the pigeons people.. and must be stopped by Michael and crew at all costs!

scbubba

Aug 28th, 2013, 04:11 PM

There are any number of reasons an IV could be used. As somebody pointed out earlier, it keeps an open line for drugs, for taking blood, and for replacing fluids (Blood or saline). It's possible Amy had lost enough blood from her scratches that Tanya was giving her saline or Ringer's solution to replace at least some of her volume. As far as drugs go, some drugs can only be administered by IV or that the only formulations they have left at the colony are IV formulations of drugs that also have an oral form. If they are as low on supplies as indicated before, it seems reasonable to me that they would have used the oral drugs previously, holding onto the IV formulations for a worst case scenario which we are now starting to reach.

Working from memory here, but didn't Michael say "into the tube in her arm" instead of directly mentioning an IV? If so, that could have easily been a hep-lock instead. I've seen people get hep-locks hen the doc/nurse/medic thought that they may need to give injectable drugs or IVs in a hurry at some point. Never put one in or had one, but my ER friends say that they are pretty simple to start.

FWIW.

EpiEpee

Aug 28th, 2013, 07:09 PM

Working from memory here, but didn't Michael say "into the tube in her arm" instead of directly mentioning an IV? If so, that could have easily been a hep-lock instead. I've seen people get hep-locks hen the doc/nurse/medic thought that they may need to give injectable drugs or IVs in a hurry at some point. Never put one in or had one, but my ER friends say that they are pretty simple to start.

FWIW.

Totally possible, and I don't have a chance to check right now either. We're probably making mountains out of molehills anyway, just thought I would try to be helpful where I might possibly have info for an outside the WA-universe question. :-)

Red Shirt

Aug 28th, 2013, 09:24 PM

I think that Libby and Saul's son is reading this recap journal of the events to his children as a bed time story years after the end of the series.

I'm OK with the retrospective theory... but WA would be one messed up bedtime story.

SHOOT THAT BITCH IN THE FACE! G'night kids!

I wanted to add to this, Note that Tanya put the syringes into an IV already in place, not just jabs her with a syringe. With Tanya already saying once that they are low on supplies, why would someone with bandaged cuts be administered an IV?....unless perhaps Tanya threw her cocktail into Amy to see if it helps against the Inklings. As confirmed earlier by colonists, they never saw advanced kinds, and sauls contamination was not from a little one....So Tanya just learned that her anti-biotic cocktail only works on the regulars?

just some food for thought

For someone has or is suffering moderate to severe bleeding, it can be a field expedient (Combat Lifesaver) means to keep someone's blood pressure up and prevent hypovolemic shock without transfusions. Not without its own dangers though, it can excessively thin the blood. I'm not sure if Saul hooked CJ up to an IV, though if he had one he should have.

The drug cocktail that Tanya used on Saul I do believe was Azithromycin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azithromycin)/Erythromycin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythromycin) and Clindamycin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clindamycin). She had only one bottle of each and used them up with Saul.

Storm

Aug 29th, 2013, 01:38 AM

A friend and I came up with this theory about the "smart ones", that they aren't really just people who were more intelligent in life, but that they just took a longer time turning, thus having their body/brain get used to the virus. Maybe their immune system were able to fight the virus longer or something.

About CJ...
The only reason I can see to why she's still alive is that Michael and the others don't have the code for her safe containing her notes yet. When she gives them that she won't have much time left.
(me and my friend's theory... well, mostly his, actually... is that she'll do this before they're going to cut off her leg, in case shell die during the surgery)
Just like Briicks and the tape showing Angel's death. When he had given that to Durai he wasn't important anymore, and was removed from the story.

As somebody on here said, can't remember where, CJ might try to get herself injected with some of the Z-blood.
If she does so it'd probably just be to help finding a cure or something, knowing that she might die anyway when they remove her leg there wouldn't be much to lose for her then.
Of course she might survive, but I don't really think so. I mean, sure, she's intelligent and such, but the only thing they really need from her is her notes. Tanya's the one putting all the pieces together, so in my view CJ's not really that needed.

We (my friend and I) talked for quite long about the episode, so I've probably missed quite a lot of the stuff we discussed, but these are the things I remember. :D

Best regards
Storm

Hoff4D

Aug 29th, 2013, 07:43 AM

There are any number of reasons an IV could be used. As somebody pointed out earlier, it keeps an open line for drugs, for taking blood, and for replacing fluids (Blood or saline). It's possible Amy had lost enough blood from her scratches that Tanya was giving her saline or Ringer's solution to replace at least some of her volume. As far as drugs go, some drugs can only be administered by IV or that the only formulations they have left at the colony are IV formulations of drugs that also have an oral form. If they are as low on supplies as indicated before, it seems reasonable to me that they would have used the oral drugs previously, holding onto the IV formulations for a worst case scenario which we are now starting to reach.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Tanya had been hoping to keep Amy from turning, and thought she could while keeping everybody else safe. I don't think she would put everybody at risk-especially because she would know in a triage situation like this that she wouldn't be able to keep as close an eye on Amy as she would need to.

The second part of what you're saying is what I'm getting at. Tanya basically denied Burt a Saline bag in the effort to keep it for dire need, and Tanya pretty much said to Michael afterwards that Amy was a goner from the get-go....so why IV her? I'm not saying there ISNT a reason, but the situation is at least suspect why she has one

Hoff4D

Aug 29th, 2013, 07:46 AM

Working from memory here, but didn't Michael say "into the tube in her arm" instead of directly mentioning an IV? If so, that could have easily been a hep-lock instead. I've seen people get hep-locks hen the doc/nurse/medic thought that they may need to give injectable drugs or IVs in a hurry at some point. Never put one in or had one, but my ER friends say that they are pretty simple to start.

FWIW.

Credit where due, you do have a point. I just think the way tanya was like stopping michael from shooting her and so quick with the injection that she had set up the hep-lock or IV earlier with an alterior motive....possibly to euthanize swiftly, possibly to test a treatment THEN euthanize if necessary

Hoff4D

Aug 29th, 2013, 07:50 AM

I'm OK with the retrospective theory... but WA would be one messed up bedtime story.

SHOOT THAT BITCH IN THE FACE! G'night kids!

For someone has or is suffering moderate to severe bleeding, it can be a field expedient (Combat Lifesaver) means to keep someone's blood pressure up and prevent hypovolemic shock without transfusions. Not without its own dangers though, it can excessively thin the blood. I'm not sure if Saul hooked CJ up to an IV, though if he had one he should have.

The drug cocktail that Tanya used on Saul I do believe was Azithromycin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azithromycin)/Erythromycin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythromycin) and Clindamycin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clindamycin). She had only one bottle of each and used them up with Saul.

Solid insight, thanks, had no idea of the blood pressure aspect!

I understand we were out of the theoretical zombie stopper, but it doesn't mean Tanya can't try a few others to see if there's something more available in this day that might stop it, why not take the candidates that are at your doorstep about to be given a breath of fresh air to their brain already anyways!

clem131

Aug 29th, 2013, 10:14 AM

Liam: Amy mentions "the skinny one", which to me indicates clearly a Little One, I did not doubt it for a sec :)

pmchawk

Aug 30th, 2013, 11:21 AM

It seems to now be uploaded, yay.

nikvoodoo

Aug 30th, 2013, 11:46 AM

It seems to now be uploaded, yay.

You are correct!

Hoff4D

Aug 30th, 2013, 12:07 PM

You are correct!

Correct me if i'm having personal computer issues, but the stream on the main page is dated aug 30th, and says WND #55...but when i click play, it plays WND #54. Anyone else?

Grognaurd

Aug 30th, 2013, 12:10 PM

We should start calling Brit Riley. It's Pegs, not Pigs. Nikvoodoo corrected her for S C Bubba last week, too lol

Grognaurd

Aug 30th, 2013, 12:18 PM

My subscription podcast downloaded a new episode for me

Hoff4D

Aug 30th, 2013, 12:19 PM

My subscription podcast downloaded a new episode for me

yea, im finding the correct one elsewhere, but on the main page (for me) its streaming the wrong one, just trying to see if its just me or not

Grognaurd

Aug 30th, 2013, 12:26 PM

Scratches, did "we" discuss the little ones bleeding themselves to poison their nails to turn by scratches? Maybe it is too speculative for the WND podcast. Going back to read 37-1 thread.. BRB

Hoff4D

Aug 30th, 2013, 12:30 PM

Scratches, did "we" discuss the little ones bleeding themselves to poison their nails to turn by scratches? Maybe it is too speculative for the WND podcast. Going back to read 37-1 thread.. BRB

Yea, Nik says in WND #55(regarding a scratch to amy) "it can turn you into a little one", however in my earlier post i mentioned/quoted Tanya's autopsy saying that little ones have normal eyes, and normal zeds have cloudy eyes....yet Michael notes Amy's eyes are turning cloudy.

Original post here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4714-Wnd-55&p=62891&viewfull=1#post62891

Grognaurd

Aug 30th, 2013, 01:23 PM

Eyes are important. Ink has clear eyes, right? When he impersonates Paul, they reference his clear green eyes, but biters 1.0 go cloudy. Inklings have clear eyes, but infected 2.o may get some power up with harder skin and such, but their eyes may still go cloudy

I think the Michael line you reference is with Pegs and the cat.

Grognaurd

Aug 30th, 2013, 01:31 PM

I guess my point is hat I thought the autopsy referenced self inflicted wounds. We now suspect that a scratch can turn. If it was an inkling, they see, to be using their claws like a Komodo dragon / biter uses their mouth to spread disease and they may be doing it by scratching themselves or others of their kind.

scbubba

Aug 30th, 2013, 01:41 PM

Eyes
Since we never see Amy fully turn, we don't know what her eyes would have looked like fully turned. We also only have points of reference on eyes for a) normal biters (cloudy/dark), b) Ink (clear green), and c) one numbered Little One (clear brown). We don't have examples of the eyes of non-numbered Little Ones to know if they have clear or cloudy/dark eyes.

So..... We're left up in the air on who and how Amy got turned. Dammit! :mad:

Grognaurd

Aug 30th, 2013, 04:07 PM

Grognaurd

Aug 30th, 2013, 04:24 PM

+1 SCBubba

Tough balance to keep indeed. I do remember that Captain Long was partially eaten (presumably by the turned Chinook crew). Those kind of body changes requires a lot of calories. Just makes you wonder what the end-game is here.

Also, anyone notice that the Little Ones are also smart? They run & hide, lured soldiers towards the tree-line etc... like a hunter-prey type of intelligence.

Chapter 1 the zombies were taking huge chunks out of the dude that honked. Interestingly, Michael wakes up starving in chapter 2. Burt survived starvation pretty well not to mention a drop. Angel a building collapse. Pegs breaks a hammer. Lizzy is an awesome shot. Riley is an empath, Datu fix. No no no no art keep your mouth shut... I keep telling myself that's stupid, but brainstorming requires I provide the crazy crap so someone else can put additional things together to make sense

Witch_Doctor

Aug 30th, 2013, 08:26 PM

Chapter 1 the zombies were taking huge chunks out of the dude that honked. Interestingly, Michael wakes up starving in chapter 2. Burt survived starvation pretty well not to mention a drop. Angel a building collapse. Pegs breaks a hammer. Lizzy is an awesome shot. Riley is an empath, Datu fix. No no no no art keep your mouth shut... I keep telling myself that's stupid, but brainstorming requires I provide the crazy crap so someone else can put additional things together to make sense

Don't forget Kelly. Kelly is... Kelly, she's great.

Hmm, let's see...

Angel Drops a building onto a behemoth, then survives a building collapse.
Kalani survives a plane's crash landing, dies in a helicopter crash.
Lincoln was in Monroe Maryland a week before his assassination, Kennedy was in Marilyn Monroe...
Nah, dead end here.

OK, let's try....
Riley is an empath from the Betazed Quarter in Paris.
R2-DATU fixed the hyper-drive on the Millennium Pelican... Nah, Ive used that R2-DATU joke to death.

Gimme some more Arthur. We're on to something. I can feel it.

Witch_Doctor

Aug 30th, 2013, 08:35 PM

Blush

Also, I am pretty sure I click dislike when I meant to click like. Is there a way to correct it?

Double blush

Ha haa! No worries. :)

Grognaurd

Aug 31st, 2013, 04:41 AM

You want Crazy? TOWTM speaks softly, but it is a pretty standard. The others that we understand are more foreign. We can speculate that they are learning to speak English to communicate with eachother, which seems odd because they clearly can communicate without it

So, spin it around. Maybe the survivors are beginning to understand "zombie". Granted this is more complicated, but the contagion, infection, narcotic, alters behavior, physiology and perspective. Why not language?

Cabbage Patch

Aug 31st, 2013, 05:13 AM

...Maybe the survivors are beginning to understand "zombie". Granted this is more complicated, but the contagion, infection, narcotic, alters behavior, physiology and perspective. Why not language?

That sound you're hearing is my brain, exploding! Everybody is infected? Everybody is evolving, whether they've been bitten, scratched or otherwise attacked? If they've already changed enough to be able to understand some zombie speech then what else might have changed?

Say that someone new should arrive who is completely untouched by the contagion, maybe someone off a nuke sub that's been submerged, or an astronaut just down from space. Would the survivors at the Colony have changed so much that the newcomer would mistake them for zombies too? Could they still communicate? Would our heros even realize that they had changed, or would the uninfected person seem like the strange one to them?

I do believe it's time for me to get fitted for a tin-foil hat. Do I need to make my own, or is there a place where I can buy one ready-made?

scbubba

Aug 31st, 2013, 06:10 AM

Just listened to the latest WND (#55, right). Good show!
And thanks for the correct name drop, nik... :)

Arthur - I'm gonna have to think on the whole "everybody is infected" thing. Intriguing, to say the least.

The first thing that comes to mind is an animated short in the bonus features of the "I Am Legend" DVD. Written by Orson Scott Card, it deals with perception and is pretty awesome...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bH2qmXSOJQ

Grognaurd

Aug 31st, 2013, 06:10 AM

The Colony IS the control group. Marcus would not let them leave. Very few have ever been beyond the walls since the outbreak. Some of the people in the colony may not have been exposed. Here comes the third wave and it is already inside the walls.

Inks Primary Purpose has been to break Quarantines, right? Inject the infection and it is a massive Force Multiplier...

Grognaurd

Aug 31st, 2013, 06:19 AM

Would the survivors at the Colony have changed so much that the newcomer would mistake them for zombies too?

To paraphrase Michael in Season 1...

Nah, just Burt

scbubba

Aug 31st, 2013, 06:52 AM

Grognaurd

Aug 31st, 2013, 07:19 AM

Argh!!! Stupid fat fingers hit the f'n dislike button by mistake..... Can an admin undo that? (nik, Osiris)

Sorry, Arthur.

I have a tin hat, I am immune to dislike. :rolleyes: Craft your's today, you can even put a Jayne Cobb camoflauge on top!

Grognaurd

Aug 31st, 2013, 07:21 AM

I have a tin hat, I am immune to dislike. :rolleyes: Craft your's today, you can even put a Jayne Cobb camoflauge on top!

RE: SCBubba's .sig file
LOL EXCEPT Mudslingers...

nikvoodoo

Aug 31st, 2013, 07:36 AM

Not sure if I can undo it. I'll look into it

Grognaurd

Aug 31st, 2013, 08:13 AM

Crow

Listening to WND Season 3Finale' a caller spoke about Hearing Crows with Scratch. I have not had he chance to follow up on it to see if crows do correlate with Scratch or if it is random background.

I liked the concept. Giving the importance of the opening a new season, what do we hear? A CROW! I have called what KC does as painting with sound and voice. I cannot help but "see" Scratch skulking away from the colony, plotting revenge.

Did you all dig any deeper on that concept?

There is SO much in the back ground sound we take for granted or do not even notice. One example I posted years ago, when Burt is being confronted Michael after Lizzy is kicked out of the tower, we hear him shake out a couple of his pills. We do not even hear a specific about pills until he is with Saul at the Air Port.

I listened to Remains of Eastern Bay. First Scratch appearance. I do hear a crow just before The execution of Charlie...

His crime falling asleep on guard duty. Despite the theft of a big rig, Burt's hand cannon, Saul's M16(?) and the zombies raging on his car. More sleeping!

I Also hear the trill/caw I associate with the little ones. Pretty damn close to Saul. Chapter 6 3 of 3 ~ 6:45,. In fact, zombie sounds are the last we hear before we roll back to Michael. There is some drama, but importantly, there is another night cycle before Saul shows up. He thought it best to hunker down instead of trying to get back to the tower. If he was nipped or scratched it could easily be lost in the whiskey wounds.

Successful relisten in my opinion...

Is there a thread to collect little ones soundings or crow sounds. At this point crow could be coincidence. I want to listen to the sweat trial and the walk to the arena. I suspect to hea little ones, but crows would only be ambiance unless they are for more than just Scratch...

turbo

Aug 31st, 2013, 08:40 AM

Not sure if I can undo it. I'll look into it

Might be a database change

Grognaurd

Aug 31st, 2013, 09:56 AM

Chapter 7

Did not hear a little one in the sweat or tagging. Did hear a crow in the tagging. Foreshadowing Scratch's arrival at the tower. Alternatively, it would be about the time she says...

Better start running!

They go to the arena tomorrow and Kalani is held captive prior to Datu's Capture.

My guess is Scratch and Latch are sent out when the tower falls to try and find it by the gunshots and chaos.
We also are told by Datu that some of the biters change direction.

Interetingly, Michael is too tired to insult Burt after the mission and goes to sleep. That fits, but it also happens when angel slaps him on the shoulder and plants the suggestion of sleep. That's twice

Grognaurd

Aug 31st, 2013, 10:16 AM

I hear crows at the pumping station. Can't parse this easily. Also, Samantha is going to say some ungodly number of days in captivity. That blows up the above crow, better start running connection. damn. But, the way to acccount for a huge number of days is an aberrant sleep wake cycle, not caused by a body's circadian rhythm. More with the sleep stuff. What did Witch_Doctor call it, necro narcosis? But 20 to one is wayyyy tooooo much compression. Lol. I'll tell you one thing, I am going to have an all I can eat crow buffet if I am wrong on this.

Double damn, it would fit so nicely if Samantha didn't open her mouth...

I am king Arthur and I wear a tinfoil crown lol

Grognaurd

Aug 31st, 2013, 10:37 AM

Hmmm... Assumption, associate crow with the family and not scratch specifically? Some of the people with CJ were also Family? This works, but its thin ice. This crow thing sounds awesome, but I do not think I can tie it to scratch unless there is yet another backstory and we are running out of time.

Red Shirt

Aug 31st, 2013, 08:19 PM

So, spin it around. Maybe the survivors are beginning to understand "zombie". Granted this is more complicated, but the contagion, infection, narcotic, alters behavior, physiology and perspective. Why not language?

I really only had one reaction to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw

Everyone is already infected... I was only going to post the video to be silly, but this just jogged something loose that has been quietly incubating in my brain waiting for the right moment to pop out... This is gonna get weird and disjointed as I go through my chain of thoughts.

Tanya has said that she could discern no difference between infected blood and normal blood. This might be because her training is as a veterinarian and might not have included things like the human side of immunology, microbiology, virology and so on. She may not know what to look for or not recognize something that shouldn't be there. Like the recently discovered giant viruses (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4020-I-think-I-have-it-guys-A-good-quot-Zombie-quot-Plague-origin-theory&p=62271&viewfull=1#post62271) that were thought to be something else they were so large...

Then my train of thought blew through that station when I came to the realization that:
Maybe Tanya's inability to find anything is because whatever "it" is, it's not out of the ordinary because IT'S BEEN THERE ALL ALONG.

But what is "it?" Surely human microbiologists even in a fictional setting would have found something like that, right? Not if it's hidden in plain sight.

When I started the ""Ink," the origin and meaning of his tattoos... (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3310-quot-Ink-quot-the-origin-and-meaning-of-his-tattoos)" thread I mentioned in the Hydrocarbons section that the chemical symbol on his wrist resembled Benzo(a)pyrene's carcinogenic interaction with DNA. As I mentioned, A great deal of these hydrocarbons are found in coal tar, oil, fossil fuel, ect., the stuff found underground.

I (think I) penned that well before the Inglewood Haze really came into play. Many Hydrocarbons are/can be gaseous or be easily aerosolized. I've also mentioned my suspicions about the nature of ancient viral DNA that has been incorporated into the Human Genome. (Articles HERE (http://www.sci-news.com/medicine/science-ancient-viruses-human-genome-cancer-01311.html) and HERE (http://www.neatorama.com/2013/05/12/HIV-Virus-Awakens-Ancient-Viral-Gene-in-the-Human-Genome/#!h4ksT).)

Then it struck me. We're not already "infected." We are already latent "Zombies." Of the entirety of the Human Genome, 98% of it is Non-Coding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noncoding_DNA). The Hydrocarbon laden haze attacks the DNA directly like a carcinogen and unlocks the non-coding DNA and forces it to code. (Again?) Now, some of this Non-Coding DNA does actually have function, it's just not part of the blueprint that makes us Human. It is likely though, that like the ancient viruses, some of the code are genetic fossils of pieces what we used to be. Different people of distinct genetic histories and/or different parts get unlocked and get expressed resulting in the menagerie of zombies: biters, runners, jumpers, behemoths and so on.

TOWTM and the Inklings? He just might understand what is going on and is steering this retro-evolution to suit his needs. The hospital? Ch. 23 3/3 @4:18 "Blood soaked bed was surrounded by countless needles." I'll bet he is/was experimenting with drug/steroid/hydrocarbon cocktails to select the perfect latent DNA activation.

This brings me back to the Arena. Something tells me that it wasn't just feeding and entertainment for the horde. I think it is more likely that it was training and selection for new Inklings.

Where's my Hat? :tinfoil:

(And here I was, fearing my well of inspiration was going dry.)

Witch_Doctor

Aug 31st, 2013, 10:57 PM

This brings me back to the Arena. Something tells me that it wasn't just feeding and entertainment for the horde. I think it is more likely that it was training and selection for new Inklings.

Where's my Hat? :tinfoil:

I like this idea of an Inkling training ground, where they learn to play with their food.

LiamKerrington

Sep 1st, 2013, 11:24 AM

I like this idea of an Inkling training ground, where they learn to play with their food.

As I mentioned sometime back somewhere else (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4558-This-is-about-episodes-1-and-2-of-this-chapter-Strange-noises): When Angel and Riley hide in the pile of dead bodies there is a strange noise which pretty much resambles the average "cry" of Little Ones ... And to make things worse: Samantha was a fertile woman, so what else except for food or fun could she have been used in the Arena after she was dragged away from R2-DATU?

Best wishes!
Liam

Osiris

Sep 1st, 2013, 12:12 PM

I'm a fan of the new format. Fucking recap. More Britt. Less no Britt.

YetAnotherBloodyCheek

Sep 1st, 2013, 12:49 PM

You know what is better than Brombacher alone? Listening to Brombacher while drinking Krombacher! :D

http://www.lieferheimdienst.de/uploads/pics/krombacher-pils-033.jpg

Witch_Doctor

Sep 1st, 2013, 01:11 PM

Litmaster

Sep 1st, 2013, 04:45 PM

You know what is better than Brombacher alone? Listening to Brombacher while drinking Krombacher! :D

http://www.lieferheimdienst.de/uploads/pics/krombacher-pils-033.jpg

Ah yes.... this was my beer of choice back in my Germany days:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Bitburger_beer.JPG/450px-Bitburger_beer.JPG

Red Shirt

Sep 1st, 2013, 10:48 PM

As I mentioned sometime back somewhere else (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?4558-This-is-about-episodes-1-and-2-of-this-chapter-Strange-noises): When Angel and Riley hide in the pile of dead bodies there is a strange noise which pretty much resambles the average "cry" of Little Ones ... And to make things worse: Samantha was a fertile woman, so what else except for food or fun could she have been used in the Arena after she was dragged away from R2-DATU?

Best wishes!
Liam

And another thing about that... Kc has said that:

Yeah, not a fan of gratuitous violence, or at least showing it. There's something to be said about hearing it vs. seeing it.

To which I agree. I believe he was the one that pointed on the YAP podcast interview out that Jaws was scarier because you didn't see the shark. What the imagination of the viewer/listener fills in on its own is often far more terrifying.

But, Angel said (in Ch. 8; 3/3 @ 15:21) after they have escaped the waterworks and "lost" Michael, "Did you see his body? Did you see him dead?"
We didn't hear what the fate of Samantha was. She may have become Dinner & a Show for the horde, training for the Inklings... even tested for selection as an Inkling. (I also seem to recall there might have been conjecture about her eyes being green and the Green Eyes theory(s) kicking around here on the forums.)

Will she return as an Inking? Not sure, but the possibility is there. Of the (assumed) twelve numbered ones, seven have been killed.