A matter of theory about the US constitution ...

[LiamKerrington]

Hello.

Today a friend and I discussed the situation of the European Union. The EU exists based on a series of international treaties. These treaties define how different countries may apply for EU-membership; and based on those treatieses there are different procedures and regulations about how new members join the EU.
It is quite interesting to see that the EU-treatieses don't provide any regulations for a) how memberstates may leave the EU or b) how the EU can expulse members.

During this conversation we wondered: What is the situation with the US? Does the constitution or any other regulation within the US provide procedures or regulations for states of the US to leave or get expulsed from the US again?

This is only a very theoretical thought. I don't think there is any need for any US-state to leave the US; and I don't want to encourage any such thought. This is only for me to know if there are certain rules or not ...

Thank you in advance. All the best!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

Good question. The Constitution does not address secession of any State from the Union. States can only join with the consent from congress. There was an court case heard by the US Supreme Court called Texas vs White were the court determined that once Texas first entered the Union then it entered an indivisible union. The decision meant that states can not unilaterally leave on their own.

Sooner or later someone from Texas will respond that Texas has some sort of secession clause but this is a myth.

[LiamKerrington]

Thank you for providing me the information. I will try to get hold of this specific decision.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Cabbage Patch]

Liam, the big test of the right of American states to secede from the country was our Civil War. 16 states asserted their right to leave the United States and form their own country. They were forced to rejoin, at great cost and enormous loss of life, and the "right of departure" has been a dead issue ever since.

[HardKor]

Liam, the big test of the right of American states to secede from the country was our Civil War. 16 states asserted their right to leave the United States and form their own country. They were forced to rejoin, at great cost and enormous loss of life, and the "right of departure" has been a dead issue ever since.

Although the Civil War did provide an interesting legal snarl on the issue of secession. Basically the rebellious states were placed under military governors after the war and "readmitted" only after they met certain guidelines such as writing new state constitutions that abolished slavery, passing the 13th (abolition of slavery) 14th (citizenship for former slaves, repudiation of Confederate debt, and ineligibility of Confederate officials to hold public office) and 15th (voting rights for former slaves) Amendments, and electing new, Congressionally approved state governments. So basically Congress gave the southern states recognition that they had seceded by forcing them to apply for readmission, but Cabbage Patch is right that since then the idea of a state seceding has been considered a dead issue to all but the most fringe elements in American politics. Although every now and then those fringe elements pop up demanding secession for they're state. (Texas, South Carolina, and Alaska seem to make the most noise but secessionists groups exist in pretty much every state.
There are actually regulations for one part of a state seceding from the rest and forming a new state though. It requires the legislature of the state to vote in favor of the split and for Congress to approve the new state. It's only been done once with West Virginia splitting from Virgina, once again during the Civil War.

[LiamKerrington]

Well, thank you. THen I will have to do some 'research' on history and will do some reading about the secession wars of the US ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

So basically Congress gave the southern states recognition that they had seceded by forcing them to apply for readmission

This is a very interesting observation! Considering that the issue is not addressed in the Constitution, apparently Congress at the time believed that the Southern States seceded.

[Osiris]

What the hell is an America anyway?

[Cabbage Patch]

What the hell is an America anyway?


In this context "America" is that area immediately beyond your southern border. I think you Canadians refer to it as "Northern Mexico".

[Osiris]

Yes. We do.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Yes. We do.


This might probably be slightly off-topic, but...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s480x480/562573_502001949846841_1877087764_n.jpg

I got it in an e-mail. :) Today. Pure coincidence...

[Witch_Doctor]

Well, thank you. THen I will have to do some 'research' on history and will do some reading about the secession wars of the US ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Make sure your studies include the tiny island nation of The Conch Republic (http://www.conchrepublic.com/history.htm). They, uh, 'seceded where others failed.'

[Witch_Doctor]

In this context "America" is that area immediately beyond your southern border. I think you Canadians refer to it as "Northern Mexico".


Yes. We do.


In all seriousness, what do Canadians call people from the USA?

[Cabbage Patch]

"Americans are benevolently ignorant about Canada, while Canadians are malevolently well informed about the United States."
-- J. Bartlett Brebner

[scbubba]

Never trust anyone who will give you ham and call it bacon.....