PDA

View Full Version : I think I have it guys; A good "Zombie" Plague origin theory.



Red Shirt
Jan 26th, 2013, 05:07 PM
(Hey, nikvoodoo, as verbose as I tend to be and I am about to get, I'm horrible at properly titling. So feel free to re-title this appropriately.)

Alright everyone, I have been going down the Wikipedia rabbit hole off and on for the past week or so and spent the better part of the day today putting this together and I think I've nailed it. A decent theory of the underlying cause and how it worked.

2400

Hold on to your hats everyone, I'm about to get overly sciency up in here!

The only good way for me to get this out of my head effectively is to do so chronologically and start from the beginning. So lets get started.


Hadean Eon: 4567.17 - 4000 million years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadean) which was followed by the
Archean Eon: 4000 - 2500 million years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archean) and the period of
Late Heavy Bombardment (Late Heavy Bombardment) that straddled the end of the Hadean and the beginning of the Archean

(When I said beginning, I wasn't BS'ing. Here's a more comprehensive timeline (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timetable_of_the_Precambrian).)

From the Hadean article, which echoes pretty much everything I had previously learned about the formation of the earth:

It is unlikely that life could have formed and established itself in the extreme, volatile conditions of the Hadean. If life had begun to form at this time, it most likely would have been destroyed several times, being forced to start over again. It is probable, however, that the building blocks necessary for life as humans know it were formed at some point during this time. Life would be granted a true start in the succeeding Archean Eon, after conditions on Earth began to stabilize.
No sense in retyping it, I'll quote it instead. It says everything I wanted to. However, one theoretical vector worth mentioning is Panspermia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia) with Extremophiles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile). Bombardment might have brought life to Earth on stellar debris or, Earth might have been a source of life in that the bombardment might have taken Hadean or Archean Proto-life with it on ejecta thrown into space... (I'll be coming back to that later.)

After the Archean Eon was the

Proterozoic Eon: 2500 - 541 million years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proterozoic) (That end date range will be important soon.)

Now, this is a a bit of an oversimplification, but for the majority of the Archean and Proterozoic Eons, life was simple... single celled life that sometimes organized into colonies. For 3.5 Billion years that is all that life did. Be Boring. Then something changed. What?


The Cambrian Explosion, around 530 million years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion).

But why the sudden explosion and diversification of life? Was there something to it? I posit that there was something holding it back. The Zombie Plague. Walk the dog with me here and I'll explain. (Bear with me, I might get a bit disjointed as I jump around and start getting into conjecture.)

Throughout the history of the Earth there have been Extinction Level Events (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction). The chart at that link shows the pattern of ELE since the Cambrian explosion, but what is to say that they weren't happening before then too? They probably were, we just have no fossil record of them.

From the Bacteria Page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria):

The ancestors of modern bacteria were single-celled microorganisms that were the first forms of life to appear on Earth, about 4 billion years ago. For about 3 billion years, all organisms were microscopic, and bacteria and archaea were the dominant forms of life.

Despite the simplicity of the life present, I'm sure it was diverse, but not homogeneous. It is likely that certain species of bacteria were specific to certain biomes then, as they are now.

I further conjecture that the "Zombie" Plague is a bacteria, or a bacteria like organism and an Extremophile. As we know it is hostile to other forms of life... Keeping other forms of life "in check," periodically killing off life in ELE's as their proliferation ebbed and flowed with time. Therefore it was at some point removed from the Earth's surface in order to allow the Cambrian Explosion to occur.

How would this be possible without its eradication? I have previously mentioned Sequestration, and I think I have figured out how.


The Farallon Tectonic Plate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farallon_Plate) has suggest to me how it might be possible.

The Farallon plate was one of the many tectonic plates that were present when Pangaea broke up during the Jurassic. I say was, because it is gone. The Pacific plate pushed it into North America and it subducted. The funny thing is that it is still kinda there, breaking up as it floats about in the Mantle under North America. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Farallon_Plate.jpg).

I therefor suggest that the biome that the "Zombie Plague Bacteria" was present in was on a plate that subducted "shortly" before the Cambrian Explosion. The sequestration of the plague allowed the explosion to take place. That plate broke up into large chunks and through the process of Mantle Convection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantle_convection), those chunks spread across the globe, under the surface of the tectonic plates, carrying with them pockets of viable ZPB Extremophiles. There, for over a half a Billion years, the E-ZPB waited just below the surface. At vents, mid-ocean ridges, volcanoes and fault lines, this debris accumulated until it was somehow released, releasing E-ZPB back into the world.

I will admit though, one of the main places this theory falls down is how/why was the release nearly simultaneous at the global level?


As an interesting aside, I mentioned that Earth could have been a source for Panspermia... It has been suggested that the Zombie Plague killed the dinosaurs. The current belief is that the Chicxulub Crater Impact 65 million Y/O was what did them in with the K-Pg extinction event (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%E2%80%93T_boundary)... However, there is some preliminary evidence that something was already killing them off. Some sort of disease. Also, there is increasing evidence that the ELE wasn't caused by a singular event, that it was the culmination of multiple impacts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%E2%80%93T_boundary#Multiple_impact_event). One or more of these may have been ejecta from an Hadean/Archean impact and brought E-ZPB back to Earth or released it from below the surface...


(Alright, I'm done. I'm going cross-eyed and getting a headache still looking at this.)

Eviebae
Jan 26th, 2013, 06:47 PM
If that's not it, it's a really good idea for another story.

Duffusmonkey
Jan 27th, 2013, 06:45 AM
This is very similar to my "District 9 theory" http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?1819-crackpot-theories-and-thoughts&p=52560#post52560

I think that you just took my theory and replaced the phase "mutation of spaceship genetic fuel" with "Extremophile". But since you quoted the so called "scientific community" to back up your theory I will give you rep :)

HorrorHiro
Feb 9th, 2013, 05:58 AM
Now that's what I call going down the rabbit hole! Amazing work Red Shirt!

Cabbage Patch
Feb 9th, 2013, 08:58 AM
Fantastic theory Red Shirt. I think it's time Osiris passed the Fox Mulder avatar on to you!

I would propose an X-Files type conspiracy to explain the simultaneous worldwide release of the "extremophile". Some secret cabal of scientists and politicians who were out to end human life, or end the dominance of the US and Pacific Rim.

Osiris
Feb 9th, 2013, 05:14 PM
Did somebody say my name?

Osiris
Feb 9th, 2013, 05:33 PM
It's an interesting theory, though not one that I subscribe to. I see no need to try and refute it, because it shows a great deal of thought (and a lot of links to stuff). I will agree that the source of the "plague" is below. As for what it might be, I couldn't even wager a guess right now. This is hardly X enough to be worth of the Mulder Moniker.

Solanine
Feb 12th, 2013, 08:24 AM
Brilliant theory in fitting with the reality of WA. My adaption would be that possibly it didn't release simultaneous. It may have released from one point and then spread (between individuals like a cold). If it has a long incubation period and is highly infectious previous to the final "zombie" stage. Most likely it wouldn't be adapted to deal with modern mammal immune systems pre-release. That would be take a while. Possibly due to mutations it lost the ability to pass by particle matter (mucus from sneezing etc) but gained some ability to alter the operation of the body. Still doesn't quite explain why the infection breaks out in present form almost simultaneously. Unless the "Final" version (which would only be transferable by saliva/ blood) evolved from the initial version several times (see the eye etc) and had an approximate number of mutations needed to reach maturity?

I fear I haven't explained my addition very eloquently but congrats on a pretty cool theory.

I'm still sure there's a man made aspect. though. Ink is to smart. And to obviously was the source of the little ones.

scbubba
Feb 12th, 2013, 09:19 AM
I like the idea of the original outbreak being something "natural" (as opposed to aliens or evil scientists). The key twist being, as Solanine said, TOWTM seizing the opportunity to be Eeeeevil and make all the variations for his own nefarious purposes.

Good work, Red Shirt!

Solanine
Feb 12th, 2013, 12:21 PM
I like the idea of the original outbreak being something "natural" (as opposed to aliens or evil scientists). The key twist being, as Solanine said, TOWTM seizing the opportunity to be Eeeeevil and make all the variations for his own nefarious purposes.

Good work, Red Shirt!

Could be that It was natural, omnipresent and evil/misguided scientists adapted it. Ink could possibly be one of them who tried to vaccinate himself and things went WrOnG.

7oddisdead
May 14th, 2013, 02:59 PM
I read three sentences....then said "red shirt came up with this, im sure it's right."

Solanine
May 15th, 2013, 12:01 PM
Thats a really polite way of saying Too Long Didn't Read. But true I suppose.

buzzbros2002
May 16th, 2013, 12:49 AM
If that is actually what happened, I'd love to see how KC would be able to explain it within the time and story constraints he has.

7oddisdead
May 16th, 2013, 01:07 AM
Thats a really polite way of saying Too Long Didn't Read. But true I suppose.

truth.

waaay over my simple mind, i did go back and read it last night. i like the theory as a thought process/stream of ideas...but sweet jesus. were this theory actually something kc constructed and used as a basis for his "zombies"....and integrated that into the story/his world...well, that would be impressive...(hint,hint...red shirt...write something....)

Solanine
May 16th, 2013, 09:25 AM
I don't necessarily think this is THE theory but Red shirt hits the main points either in his theory or in his little critique afterward.
Things we know so far:

1. It came from under ground

2. Its "Zombie symptoms" surfaced simultaneously across the world.

3. Its symptoms affect different people in different ways.

4. Transmission is possible through contact with blood and saliva.

Things we're guessing:

1. A command chain of sorts has become established within the infected population (TOWTM is possibly not one figure but a zombie "Class" of its own.

1.5 Randy would appear to be below TOWTM in the command structure based on events in the final chapter, I will re listen soon to confirm it.

2. Its capable of adapting. The emergence of the little ones suggests intelligent design of some kind (numbering and clipping of nails within the hospital).
The disappearance of certain "Specials" suggests there is a selective force present. Whether in the case of jumpers this is natural or artificial selection is hard to say.

Any thoughts or additions? I may start a what we know thread as a source for theory lovers if thats not out there.
That way theories can improved and disproved more easily.

7oddisdead
May 16th, 2013, 10:53 PM
I think starting a thread like that is an excellent idea. Gopher it, Jonny!

:) I've been away too long.

Solanine
May 17th, 2013, 12:13 PM
We've been through this, my name is not Johnny xD .
I shall do that tomorrow, I'm off to eat fish and chips while watching Doctor Who.
*That last sentence is even half true although I'll let you guess at what half.*

Witch_Doctor
May 18th, 2013, 08:49 AM
I don't necessarily think this is THE theory but Red shirt hits the main points either in his theory or in his little critique afterward.
Things we know so far:
1. It came from under ground
2. Its "Zombie symptoms" surfaced simultaneously across the world.
3. Its symptoms affect different people in different ways.
4. Transmission is possible through contact with blood and saliva.
Things we're guessing:
1. A command chain of sorts has become established within the infected population (TOWTM is possibly not one figure but a zombie "Class" of its own.
1.5 Randy would appear to be below TOWTM in the command structure based on events in the final chapter, I will re listen soon to confirm it.
2. Its capable of adapting. The emergence of the little ones suggests intelligent design of some kind (numbering and clipping of nails within the hospital).
The disappearance of certain "Specials" suggests there is a selective force present. Whether in the case of jumpers this is natural or artificial selection is hard to say.
Any thoughts or additions? I may start a what we know thread as a source for theory lovers if thats not out there.
That way theories can improved and disproved more easily.

We've been through this, my name is not Johnny xD .
I shall do that tomorrow, I'm off to eat fish and chips while watching Doctor Who.
*That last sentence is even half true although I'll let you guess at what half.*

My thoughts exactly! Good job of pointing out facts from conjecture. Also, a great point about KC having a lot to divulge within the time he has left in the story, if Red Shirt is correct. But, KC did say in an interview that the audience will learn just enough to understand how the outbreak started. So, Red Shirt could still be onto something at a higher degree of detail than will be revealed within the story. Maybe even more detail than what KC had planned.

My guess is that KC will keep the cause simple, i.e. vague. More like something here caused this by doing that. Too many details make for awful Sci-Fi to the sciency type. Like Latch says, "Simple works all the time. Try to complicate it with too many details; that's when you get caught."


Oh, My guess is that you'll be watching Doctor Who, but you'll be eating fish fingers and custard. Ah, Ah, am I right Johny English? :D

Solanine
May 23rd, 2013, 01:15 PM
Not quite. I'd already had my fish and chips. And yeah I totally agree about the science.
I hate it when people try and do science but don't get there facts right. Keep it vague and don't try to be a Scientician.
How ever it still fun to theorise using science etc.

The thread is not yet up as I had technical problems and lost my original draft. Then rage quitted.

BrockSTL
May 25th, 2013, 11:36 AM
I think your close to the right theory. Review the reported areas...they are either part of the "Ring of Fire" volocano's or like Hawaii, they have volcano's/fault line's. There is a theory that viruses are from deep in the earth. Viruses might not even be alive. That does not explain how the zombies are being engineered, the "little ones" and the numbered ones...also, how to explain Ink?
I think we the audience have been kept out of the loop with some vital information....I suspect when Michael was on his own and broke his arm...he said the experience was horrific and Angel stopped him from telling his story. I think Michael has secret knowledge.

celticlycan
May 27th, 2013, 06:06 AM
I think that it should start off as a failed government experiment to recreate a 'super soldier serum' from a secret underground base. maybe it was e.t. playing with his chemistry kit. or maybe it was the 'lizard people' that are slowly taking over the world?

Solanine
May 27th, 2013, 11:28 AM
I'm a fan of the artificial creation theories but thats a little comic book.
On the other hand I've heard people suggest voodoo and weird crime cults before so who knows?

Red Shirt
Aug 20th, 2013, 06:12 PM
Do you have a cup of coffee? Tea? Soda? No? I'll wait.

...

You're back? Alright, lets get started... I've been putting off this update long enough. Buckle up, this one is link heavy.

OK, one of the places that I get my science news is through the weekly Science & Skepticism podcast Skeptic's Guide to the Universe (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/). I recently learned from them of several new developments that I'd like to mention here.

News Item #1:

From the "This Day in Skepticism" segment that starts the show, SGU Episode #414 (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/podcast/sgu/414) featured the eruption of Lakagígar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki_volcano) in Iceland. Not a "classic" volcano, it is a fissure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fissure_vent) and on June 8th, 1783 this fissure opened explosively (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phreatic_eruption) with 130 craters. The eruption became less explosive after a few days and more Strombolian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strombolian_eruption) and eventually Hawaiian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_eruption) in character, but it continued until February 7th, 1784... Eight months.

During this time it released 3.4 cu mi (14 km3) of basaltic lava, 8 million tons of hydrogen fluoride and 120 million tons of sulfur dioxide. By June 22, 1783 the cloud of gas had reached Le Havre France. In Iceland, it killed approximately half the livestock and between the famine and fluoride poisoning, 25% of Iceland's population died. Globally, due to the drastic change in the climate, it is estimated that six million died, making this eruption the second deadliest eruption known (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volcanic_eruptions_by_death_toll).

From the perspective of the WND story, this event can sort of explain the haze that is seen at ground zero... In fact, the hazy area in Inglewood is small by comparison.

News Item #2:

As featured in SGU Episode #415 (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/podcast/sgu/415) as a Science or Fiction item, there is new evidence showing that there is a new subduction zone forming off the coast of Portugal. The long term geological implications for this are that over the next 220 million years, the Atlantic Ocean could close and North America gets pulled towards Europe.

This demonstrates how dynamic and changing our planet still is, even 4.5 Bn years after formation. Here's the article over at Science Daily (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130617104614.htm).

News Item #3:

From the SGU Episode #419 (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/podcast/sgu/419) News Segment: The Pandora virus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandoravirus), the largest virus ever discovered, both in mass and size of the genome. Is essentially a new form of life that may be worthy of a new domain. So far two have been discovered, the Pandoravirus dulcis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandoravirus_dulcis) and Pandoravirus salinus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandoravirus_salinus). These things are so large in fact, that at a size approaching one micrometer, they can be seen with a ordinary light microscope, rather than the electron microscopes that are usually used to look at viruses.

(Life on Earth currently falls under three Domains: Archaea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaea), Bacteria (http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria) and Eukaryote (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eukaryota). This level of discovery is entirely unprecedented.)

To compare, the genome of the virus Influenza A (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus#Structure_and_genetics) consists of 13,588 base pairs that code for eleven genes. Pd's genome consists of 2.47 million base pairs that code for 1500 genes and Ps's consists of 1.91 million base pairs coding for 2500 genes. (For further comparison, the Human genome is about 3 billion base pairs that codes for 20,000 genes.)

Here's the really interesting part: Through various genome projects around the world, geneticists have built up databases of the life they are studying. Through this it has been learned that many disparate creatures have some of the same genes, even when they are vastly different animals. In these new viruses, 93% of the genes have never been seen before and are completely unknown to any genetic data base.

These things are so large, that they had been previously overlooked. They had been previously discovered but were initially misidentified as bacteria. They weren't described until just last month. It is believed that "we" now know what to look for, it is likely that there are many more of these viruses to be discovered.

Articles HERE (http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/giant-viruses-may-be-a-new-domain-of-life) and HERE (http://www.nature.com/news/giant-viruses-open-pandora-s-box-1.13410).


There is a lot more I would like to add to this line of thought, but the information I need escapes me... Things along the lines of ancient viral DNA getting incorporated into the non-coding segments in the DNA of extant life.


Alright, time to put my foil hat back on and go stare at pictures of tattoos.

Witch_Doctor
Aug 20th, 2013, 07:16 PM
Do you have a cup of coffee? Tea? Soda? No? I'll wait.

...

You're back? Alright, lets get started... I've been putting off this update long enough. Buckle up, this one is link heavy.


Hey! Who's that noisy? Oh, Red Shirt, as usual. :D
Wow buddy! I was thinking of We're Alive too when they mentioned these news items. I also listened to Astronomy Cast's Ring of Fire episode, but I couldn't find anything that seemed germane.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxIF62NGh5k

Good find.

Red Shirt
Aug 21st, 2013, 09:50 PM
Hey! Who's that noisy? Oh, Red Shirt, as usual. :D
Wow buddy! I was thinking of We're Alive too when they mentioned these news items. I also listened to Astronomy Cast's Ring of Fire episode, but I couldn't find anything that seemed germane.
Good find.

Ahhh, a fellow Rouge... right here at WA

I got super excited when I saw the Ring of Fire episode pop up in my feed. Alas, there was nothing particularly new or that related to the world of WA.

(Oh, and I'll admit I kinda <3 Dr. Gay. Not to sound creepy or anything, she has an excellent voice. In fact, according to episode 309, she's also getting into narration and voice work.)

Witch_Doctor
Aug 21st, 2013, 10:37 PM
(Oh, and I'll admit I kinda <3 Dr. Gay. Not to sound creepy or anything, she has an excellent voice. In fact, according to episode 309, she's also getting into narration and voice work.)

Boy, her voice is sooooooo sultry. Speaking of voices, I always imagine Frazer as looking like Frye from Futurama.

iGeek
Nov 24th, 2013, 01:01 PM
Very good theory :)

FunkyDung
Nov 24th, 2013, 01:07 PM
I further conjecture that the "Zombie" Plague is a bacteria, or a bacteria like organism and an Extremophile. As we know it is hostile to other forms of life... Keeping other forms of life "in check," periodically killing off life in ELE's as their proliferation ebbed and flowed with time. Therefore it was at some point removed from the Earth's surface in order to allow the Cambrian Explosion to occur.

Similar thoughts occurred to me, but I hadn't realized you'd beaten me to posting them (by several months). Have you seen my recent post about crows excrement carrying antibiotic-resistant bacteria?

Storm
Nov 25th, 2013, 02:01 AM
Have you seen my recent post about crows excrement carrying antibiotic-resistant bacteria?
O.O

...This would be the only place I would learn that kind of stuff...
...Don't tell me how you found that info, BTW. :P

P.S. I read that post - I think. It was Vancomycin as far as I remember.

FunkyDung
Nov 25th, 2013, 09:03 AM
It was Vancomycin as far as I remember.

Yup. BTW, check out this scary article:

Imagining the Post-Antibiotics Future (https://medium.com/p/892b57499e77)
After 85 years, antibiotics are growing impotent. So what will medicine, agriculture and everyday life look like if we lose these drugs entirely?