Reproduction & Evolution

[Jannit]

One thing that I've been curious about is that I don't think we've seen children or baby zombies.

We've been told that the zombies are alive. They have certain basic requirements in order to live. Some are shown to grow. Living creatures procreate and grow in order for the species to survive. So far we've only seen one form of "procreation" with the zombies and that's the straight up bite --> infect ---> turn series of events.

As it seems that zombies have the ability to choose who they want to turn does it make more sense that they just outright kill the children and babies than rather turn them or are the children being used for something else? What happened to the pregnant women? Did their babies turn into invitro zombies and there are permanently pregant zombie women around or were the children delivered to grow into little ones?

Furthermore, once all of the humans are turned or killed off, what is next for the zombies? How will they survive? Based off of KC stating that zombies are alive, I've also got to wonder if it's possible for them to die of "natural" causes. If their only method of reproduction is infection, they will ALL die relatively shortly after humanity is destroyed, I'd imagine. We haven't had them around long enough, or had enough focus placed on them to be able to tell just how human they really are. It's almost D day for the zombies. D being Darwinism, of course.

<Deleted the reference to food sources as that's covered in the other recent theory topic! My mistake.>

So, what do you think? Can zombies evolve? Were all the children killed outright in the attacks? Were all of the pregnant women killed?

I'm having some issues putting my thoughts into a coherent opening post; an edit for clarity may be required in the future. More coffee is needed to try and combat my rambling brain.

[Osiris]

I'm not sure if you are aware of this... but zombies don't wear pants. That would leave a whole lot of easy access to various bits and pieces that are required to maka-dem-babayz. I was shocked to find out myself, but... Britt has never been wrong yet.

Also, they can't reproduce via sexual intercourse.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

there is actually no confirmation that them zeehs choose who to turn and who not to. This is heavily debated, as I understand it. And I think turning basically is a matter of circumstances OR - in case of the Ink-army - by organisation.

As of now I'd like to consider the zeehs as kind of a "virus" with the population being the host for it; since deadly viruses kill their host they will die as well, unless there is kind of an agent delivering a small portion of the virus to another body. Since earth only has one human population (if you consider borders between nations as meaningless for this picture), the zeehs as virus will kill off the humans and then die sooner or later themselves.
This remains true, although we know from various reports that zeehs eat anything, even canned food, animals and themselves; but this only expands their buffet.
Aby baby-bommer-zombies ... We didn't have any reports on this; but we have some wild guesses considering the Behemoths as parents of Little Ones; but that is an old discussion; and with the recent events around Boulder this theory may have lost any of its solidity, if it had any anyway ...

As for babies and children: Even the humans in WA don'T have them. Do we question their reproduction? Just kidding...

All the best!
Liam

[Luna Guardian]

I actually don't think there's any reason why the zombies couldn't have babies. They're shown to be alive and in a very primal state, and the very primal instincts of humans are sleep, eat and fuck. Just because we haven't seen any zombie-boot-knocking doesn't mean it's not happening. Now, that being said, its more than likely that pregnant women and children were eaten or killed, as they have less of a chance to fight back or escape from the zombies than healthy, unhindered adults.

Now, would zombie babies survive is another matter, but there is the distinct possibility that the zedheads are capable of reproducing

[Jannit]

Also, they can't reproduce via sexual intercourse.

Hi Osiris,
Is this wishful thinking or fact? It’s gross, but not proven to be impossible.


Hi there,
there is actually no confirmation that them zeehs choose who to turn and who not to. This is heavily debated, as I understand it. And I think turning basically is a matter of circumstances OR - in case of the Ink-army - by organisation.

Hi Liam,
Very good point. I was getting a bit ahead of myself with the statement about “choosing.” My intent with that line was that not all people who are bitten or scratched get turned. Some just die. Perhaps a better question would be: Is there any reason that Zombie-ism wouldn’t be passed onto children, resulting in child zombies?

As of now I'd like to consider the zeehs as kind of a "virus" with the population being the host for it; since deadly viruses kill their host they will die as well, unless there is kind of an agent delivering a small portion of the virus to another body. Since earth only has one human population (if you consider borders between nations as meaningless for this picture), the zeehs as virus will kill off the humans and then die sooner or later themselves.
The virus idea seems very logical and, to an extent, I agree with it. The problem I’m running into with the virus idea is that not everyone who is exposed to the virus is being turned which seems odd. There could very well be some logical reasons for it but without knowing what KC has in mind for the story yet, I’m having a bit of trouble bridging that gap.

As for the zombies all dying off, there is one thing that I think might prevent that. They seem able to adapt, biologically. It very well could be the result of who was turned initially which ties into Burt’s statement about the smarter you are in life, the smarter you are as a zombie. However, that still doesn’t fully explain the different types of zombies.

A normal biter could have just been an average intelligence person.

A Smart One could be a normal biter but with increased mental capacity.

What, then, are the Behemoths, Runners and Jumpers? (I’m a fan of Behemoths being steroid users in life that had a crazy reaction to the infection and became supersized.) It would really help if we could get an autopsy on one of those things to see how much they differ from humans.

Then we get into the realm of Little Ones. Given the information we know about them, it seems that they’ve grown very quickly (proof being the stretch marks), they have pre-pubescent bodies (thanks to the autopsy for that one) and their internal structure is significantly different from humans (again, proof given in the autopsy).

As for babies and children: Even the humans in WA don'T have them. Do we question their reproduction? Just kidding...
Of course! Question everything! Kidding aside, we have Hope and Tommy just to be nitpicky so we do have children. :hsugh:.

I actually don't think there's any reason why the zombies couldn't have babies. They're shown to be alive and in a very primal state, and the very primal instincts of humans are sleep, eat and fuck. Just because we haven't seen any zombie-boot-knocking doesn't mean it's not happening. Now, that being said, its more than likely that pregnant women and children were eaten or killed, as they have less of a chance to fight back or escape from the zombies than healthy, unhindered adults.
Hi Luna,
Your statement pretty much where I was going with this. KC’s comment about people forgetting that the zombies are alive really triggered it for me. Things that are alive normally have ways to reproduce.

Now, would zombie babies survive is another matter, but there is the distinct possibility that the zedheads are capable of reproducing.
If the baby zombies grew really quickly into super killing machines that wouldn’t be a problem! We’ve seen one type of zombie that fits two of those criteria in the Little Ones…

Thanks for the comments guys.

Cheers,
~Jannit

[Test subject 9]

I actually don't think there's any reason why the zombies couldn't have babies. They're shown to be alive and in a very primal state, and the very primal instincts of humans are sleep, eat and fuck. Just because we haven't seen any zombie-boot-knocking doesn't mean it's not happening. Now, that being said, its more than likely that pregnant women and children were eaten or killed, as they have less of a chance to fight back or escape from the zombies than healthy, unhindered adults.

Now, would zombie babies survive is another matter, but there is the distinct possibility that the zedheads are capable of reproducing

If there were reproduction using sex for zombies we would have see evidence of it at the arena. The only stable place for children could be raised, but the evaluation of the arena to the hospital should have brought some evidence of children zombies. Listening back I didn't hear anything that to me sounded like evidence of children zombies.

[Jannit]

If there were reproduction using sex for zombies we would have see evidence of it at the arena. The only stable place for children could be raised, but the evaluation of the arena to the hospital should have brought some evidence of children zombies. Listening back I didn't hear anything that to me sounded like evidence of children zombies.

Hi TS9,

It's been a while since I've listened to the episodes for either the arena or the hospital but, in both cases, we're not taken throughout the entire structure so I'd be hesitant to say omission proves exclusion in this case. Plus, with the case of zombies, "raising" the children probably wouldn't require a whole lot of stability in the traditional sense. I agree that your points about not seeing them so far or hearing them does make it a bit more difficult to prove.

Hopefully someone will help with the holes in my memory here but at the hospital, weren't we told about some strange noises during the Devil's Workshop? I'll have to go back and listen again.

Thanks for the comments.

Jannit

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Jannit, you raise an interesting question.

First of all, it takes more than merely reproductive organs. The *technical* reproduction aspect might be still feasible in some wicked way, however there might be other obstacles as well. For instance, what about the hormonal balance or the modifications which were applied to the zombies by the the virus/mutagenic/whatever?

Would a female zombie even recognize her own offspring? What would the other zombies do, e.g. would they accept the child as one of their kind or rather as food?

Moreover, I somehow doubt that zombies mate because the whole zombie concept is based on a rotting body shell whose only hobby (if you will) is to kill and eat humans.

[Jannit]

Jannit, you raise an interesting question.

First of all, it takes more than merely reproductive organs. The *technical* reproduction aspect might be still feasible in some wicked way, however there might be other obstacles as well. For instance, what about the hormonal balance or the modifications which were applied to the zombies by the the virus/mutagenic/whatever?

Would a female zombie even recognize her own offspring? What would the other zombies do, e.g. would they accept the child as one of their kind or rather as food?

Moreover, I somehow doubt that zombies mate because the whole zombie concept is based on a rotting body shell whose only hobby (if you will) is to kill and eat humans.

Hello ABC!

Thanks for the comments. Normally, I'd be inclined to write off the entire idea of reproduction with zombies but I really don't think WA zombies are typical zombies. This is what's leading me to question their ability for prolonged survival outside of the bite-and-turn chain that we've seen so far.

I absolutely agree that normal zombies are "a rotting body shell whose only hobby (if you will) is to kill and eat humans." However, we know that WA zombies are more than normal zombies. They react to harmful influences to their bodies including starvation, temperature, extreme damage, etc. I'm not convinced that WA zombies are undead or subject to the normal "laws" of zombies.

I'm not sure how it would work, or how it could work but it's a nagging thought that just won't go away! Besides, "We're Alive" could just as easily refer to the zombies as to the survivors of the apocalypse.

Cheers,
Jannit

[Osiris]

Never going to happen. Zombies don't bang.

[Jannit]

Never going to happen. Zombies don't bang.

Probably not but there's no harm discussing it. Most theories on here will probably turn out to be wrong but that doesn't make the speculation any less interesting.

[Osiris]

Probably not but there's no harm discussing it. Most theories on here will probably turn out to be wrong but that doesn't make the speculation any less interesting.

:hsugh:

[Luna Guardian]

If there were reproduction using sex for zombies we would have see evidence of it at the arena. The only stable place for children could be raised, but the evaluation of the arena to the hospital should have brought some evidence of children zombies. Listening back I didn't hear anything that to me sounded like evidence of children zombies.

Just because we didn't see something, doesn't mean its not there. Now, I don't mean to say that there are zombiefied anklebiters running (crawling) about, but if there were, I don't think we might have necessarily seen them. Also, their existance would explain the dead bodies Angel and Riley hid in: it's food for the young.


Never going to happen. Zombies don't bang.

Clearly you don't watch the right kind of porn.

[Test subject 9]

Luna what kind of porn do you watch because I have yet to find one any where close to zombies having sex.

[Osiris]

Just because we didn't see something, doesn't mean its not there. Now, I don't mean to say that there are zombiefied anklebiters running (crawling) about, but if there were, I don't think we might have necessarily seen them. Also, their existance would explain the dead bodies Angel and Riley hid in: it's food for the young.



Clearly you don't watch the right kind of porn.


:hsugh:

[LiamKerrington]

Hello yABC,



First of all, it takes more than merely reproductive organs. The *technical* reproduction aspect might be still feasible in some wicked way, however there might be other obstacles as well. For instance, what about the hormonal balance or the modifications which were applied to the zombies by the the virus/mutagenic/whatever?

You provide a probable answer, actually. I guess it is a safe assumption that the zeeh-agent modifies pretty much about the central-nervous-system of the zeehs. The Regular's smelling senses become a lot better and zeehs in general ignore pain to some high degree; also we know that the anatomy of the zeehs (especially skin-wise) changes a lot. All these things work together with hormons or biochemical procedures within the body.

So the question would be: Would them zeehs still be able to reproduce, or does the zeeh-agent actually turn off the ability to produce all those hormons necessary for reproduction and banging?

Hard to tell; it is also hard to tell, what hormons in the sweat-bombs the zeehs react to - the stress-hormons or those ones signaling valentine's Day?

All the best!
Liam

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Maybe the smell of Teen Spirit gets them in the right mood.

[Miss]

I was under the impression that they reproduce by bite/getting blood into a person and ta-da a new z head

[turbo]

check out this movie...i've seen it once or twice, but it involves zombie sex and babies...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braindead_(film)

[Deacon_Tyler]

check out this movie...i've seen it once or twice, but it involves zombie sex and babies...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braindead_(film)

you had me at "zombie sex".

Truly a great movie

[Deacon_Tyler]

Hello yABC,



You provide a probable answer, actually. I guess it is a safe assumption that the zeeh-agent modifies pretty much about the central-nervous-system of the zeehs. The Regular's smelling senses become a lot better and zeehs in general ignore pain to some high degree; also we know that the anatomy of the zeehs (especially skin-wise) changes a lot. All these things work together with hormons or biochemical procedures within the body.

So the question would be: Would them zeehs still be able to reproduce, or does the zeeh-agent actually turn off the ability to produce all those hormons necessary for reproduction and banging?

Hard to tell; it is also hard to tell, what hormons in the sweat-bombs the zeehs react to - the stress-hormons or those ones signaling valentine's Day?

All the best!
Liam

Well now, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's both and neither and say that they're reacting to the overall "funk in the trunk" one gets just by being nasty and sweaty, although as a matter of scientific principle, they should have unleashed a "six pack o' bodily fluids" in different parts of town just to see if there's a noticeable difference.

Humans generally stink; we're used to our smell and the majority of us bathe each day to cut back on the funk, but even after just ONE DAY, most of us are pretty ripe. I believe this to be an evolutionary response - as apex predators, if humans didn't stink so badly and so noticeable to other animals, we would have TOO easy of a time hunting prey with our big powerful man-brains. In the WA universe, it appears this works in the opposite for us and distinguishes us as prey.

[turbo]

you had me at "zombie sex".

Truly a great movie
It really was a decent movie for it's budget. Also a lot of Special FX with the makeup.

Realistically(yet still fake), no way they could reproduce like us alive folks.

[Raven]

Was totally going to say Dead Alive I never knew it had another name but it made me like lawnmowers as a zombie killing tool but yea it is pretty high on the WTF meter.