Chapter 33-3 Red Winter

[nikvoodoo]

Final chapter part. Happy monday!

[Penguine]

*patiently watches the clock*

[Adventureless_Hero]

Holy crap! That was intense! I thought if anything they would save Ft. Irwin being over run for the season finale! One of the best episodes by far. Glad to see a return of some of the voice actors, even Datu!

I'm thinking that now that Inklings know how to play dead. The one that infiltrated Ft. Irwin knew what it was doing. I don't know how Michael is going to escape this one though, seeing as how Puck and Riley are MIA.

[UndeadSweeper]

Holy crap! That was intense! I thought if anything they would save Ft. Irwin being over run for the season finale! One of the best episodes by far. Glad to see a return of some of the voice actors, even Datu!

I'm thinking that now that Inklings know how to play dead. The one that infiltrated Ft. Irwin knew what it was doing. I don't know how Michael is going to escape this one though, seeing as how Puck and Riley are MIA.

If you keep this up, you are off my Christmas card list.

[Adventureless_Hero]

If you keep this up, you are off my Christmas card list.

lol, sorry. I couldn't help myself!

[Penguine]

Argh! It isnt on the webpage yet, and I dont have an iAnything.. LOL

[Penguine]

Ahh.. there it is. Listening now.

[Penguine]

Holy crap! That was intense! I thought if anything they would save Ft. Irwin being over run for the season finale! One of the best episodes by far. Glad to see a return of some of the voice actors, even Datu!

I'm thinking that now that Inklings know how to play dead. The one that infiltrated Ft. Irwin knew what it was doing. I don't know how Michael is going to escape this one though, seeing as how Puck and Riley are MIA.

Datu... *weeps* WHY!!!???

[LiamKerrington]

*BAMMMMMM*
Cliffhanger deluxe: "We're too late ..."

[Penguine]

Griggs must have taken 11 days to get to Boulder. I come to this conclusion because Micheal said it was 11 days till the next transport left from Boulder to Irwin then the autopsy and they try and raise Boulder on the radio. Griggs averaged 2.7 miles per day through the mountains. Hmm... seems kind of slow.

[LiamKerrington]

Well, probably he was not heading directly towards Boulder, but simply "searching" the area and sooner or later realizing where to go for the big time feast!

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm so happy I wasn't eating lunch as usual while listen to this. Good sound work KC. :meh:

[clem131]

Damn, this is one hell of a cliffhanger!
I went back and listened to the previous one, because this failure in communication seemed just unlikely to me, but actually we don't hear what Carl is saying to Michael, so he might have omitted something. Still, I found parts of this episode a bit "funny":
- 11 days and not a moment to read a single report about the crashed Chinook affair? Especially when it interested Michael so much he organized the autopsy behind Kimmet's back?
- we all thought "damn, it's only 30 miles from Boulder, they better be careful about that". I also commented on the previous episode that if they know one single little one is coming, with all the personnel they have they can take care of it no problem. Turns out they didn't know because Carl forgot to mention about the turned soldiers and Michael didn't read the report and did not think about the remaining one as a danger? Ahem. Ok.
- besides, do they really need to be told that one zombie, however special, can breed other zombies very fast?! I though that was the safest assumption to make. Isn't that like what happened since day one? They seem so surprised.

I'm glad we'll get to hear from the guys in Boulder again and I can't wait for the commando style mission back to the hospital. Maybe Kimmet and TOWTM can sit down, have a drink and talk about a truce :D

[HardKor]

Wow. awesome cliffhanger. We're definitely building up for the finale.
Now who else thinks we end up going back to the Colony for the next chapter? That little two week time skip in this episode puts the Ft. Irwin storyline back in line with the Colony storyline. So I think we go back to the Colony both as a way to build up suspense and because Kc likes screwing with us. :p

[UndeadSweeper]

Wow. awesome cliffhanger. We're definitely building up for the finale.
Now who else thinks we end up going back to the Colony for the next chapter? That little two week time skip in this episode puts the Ft. Irwin storyline back in line with the Colony storyline. So I think we go back to the Colony both as a way to build up suspense and because Kc likes screwing with us. :p

Nah, KC will put a quick one and we probably end at the new tower and find out more on Glenn and Pete's farming exp or Skittles.

[ferroaj]

One interesting note... LOs have normal eyes. I'm still thinking they're capable of thought, planning, learning, etc. Basically they're smart as fuuuuuu. They have to be some sort of hybrid bt zombie and human.

[UndeadSweeper]

One interesting note... LOs have normal eyes. I'm still thinking they're capable of thought, planning, learning, etc. Basically they're smart as fuuuuuu. They have to be some sort of hybrid bt zombie and human.

I guess they also retain their memory too. Since he is heading direct to Boulder.

[Penguine]

I also found it a bit odd that in 11 days Micheal didn't read the report. What I find even more odd is that he didn't mention anything in the previous episode when Carl told him that Griggs was missing, he kind of just glossed over it and pressed on. It's like the QB handed the ball off to Micheal and he fumbled it... big time... If we head to Boulder maybe we will get to hear from Datu and Pegs.

I can not recall, but what color was Samantha's hair? Could #2 of been her? You know, when they took her from the room with Kalani and Datu in it and took her down to "play". Just a thought, or did Sam have blonde hair? Not really relavent I dont think, but my mind went there.

[HardKor]

I can not recall, but what color was Samantha's hair? Could #2 of been her? You know, when they took her from the room with Kalani and Datu in it and took her down to "play". Just a thought, or did Sam have blonde hair? Not really relavent I dont think, but my mind went there.

Samantha's hair was red. But that is an interesting idea. They never did explain what was meant by having them "play" with their prisoners on the arena floor.
I think its more likely they just got themselves ripped apart, but the thought that they got turned into Little Ones is definitely something to consider.

[LiamKerrington]

edit: ninjaed by HardKor /edit ends ...

Penguine ... I wouldn't want to be your enemy. That would be really mean and evil ... And actually I dont even think that is too farfetched. Actually we don't know what happened to the ones being played with in the arena ...
But here is the but:
We hear her crying out loud when the zombie-mob engaged her. And there was no mentioning of special ones being involved it. Maybe Datu forgot to mention it, but what, if there was nothing special to mention? Then she would be killed or turned into a regular one ... it is open for debate.

The 11 day jump and the reports being not read by Michael strike me as kind of odd as well - especially since the 30mi distance to Boulder was part if episode #33-2 already ... I will listen to both episode more thoroughly and try to twist my mind around it ...

[Adventureless_Hero]

Dammit Riley. Why didn't you mention the part in the hospital where you and Kalani ran in to Pinstripes!?

Well, now that Boulder is the New Racoon City, I wonder if they are going to nuke it? Michael could have Pegs, Datu, Kelly, and Lady hole up in Cheyenne Mountain to the south and then Kimmet can drop the bomb on Boulder.

[Privateer]

Oooooh hohoho. Now that is a cliffhanger! This episode was rather expositioney, mostly going over the little ones and letting things come together. I have to agree with everyone that the miscommunication with Michael is a little... Out of type, but I can suspend my disbelief for this one. Also, great to hear More Riley! She's one of my favorite characters, and listening to her turning green was amusing!

Did anyone catch that Riley was on /anger/ meds, or did I just mishear that? Maybe Riley's not a great soldier for lack of restraint? :P

We are shaping up for something awesome, but the only bastion of civilization getting eaten... seems like thinga are gonna get daaaaark. Cause yeah, if Griggs gets to the city, Boulder's a buffet.

[Pillars]

I also thought about how the LO's eyes were normal compared to regulars. Also when Ink was in the tower Michael described his eyes as being bright green. It seems that Ink and the Little Ones have normal eyes. Maybe some importance maybe not. Thoughts?

[Privateer]

I also thought about how the LO's eyes were normal compared to regulars. Also when Ink was in the tower Michael described his eyes as being bright green. It seems that Ink and the Little Ones have normal eyes. Maybe some importance maybe not. Thoughts?

Well, at its base, it may mean that they rely more on sight then biters. Someone else indicated that it may indicate intelligence, which is an intereasting concept. However, if intelligence remains, one has to ask: How much of the original person is left. Thought means rationality, to some degree.... Maybe it took so long for Griggs because he was dealing to deal with his new dietary requirements? A bigger question, and the one of the last two years is.... how. If the Little Ones are deliverate, how could someone tailor make them to such a degree with a, frigging genetics background. Considering no one knows what caused the original virus... Pinstripes might be special, and Was testing his gnawing On 1 - 12? Thats just rambling though

[Penguine]

Did anyone catch that Riley was on /anger/ meds, or did I just mishear that? Maybe Riley's not a great soldier for lack of restraint?

I caught that also.

She seems to be a little to arguementative lately, I think Micheal needs to bitch slap her into next week if she keeps popping off like she has been. He should go off on her and tell her to shut up and fall in line, afterall she is a soldier now and there is a chain of command, and she ain't in that chain.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I was giving some consideration to Tanya's description of the Inklings bones. She said they were yellow and hard, right? It immediately made me think of The Haze. Wasn't it yellow in color?

What else could give bones a yellow hue; Calcium, plaque?

[EpiEpee]

I was giving some consideration to Tanya's description of the Inklings bones. She said they were yellow and hard, right? It immediately made me think of The Haze. Wasn't it yellow in color?

What else could give bones a yellow hue; Calcium, plaque?

Tetracycline (an antibiotic) can cause bones to have a yellow color over time, starting with the teeth. This is more apparent with high doses. Oh, and it is taken up more rapidly by growing bones.

If the agent causing people to turn is bacterial, maybe tetracycline could be helping to keep the little ones more human-like? I think it's unlikely, but it was my first thought when I was trying to figure out why the bones were yellow.

[Privateer]

I caught that also.

She seems to be a little to arguementative lately, I think Micheal needs to bitch slap her into next week if she keeps popping off like she has been. He should go off on her and tell her to shut up and fall in line, afterall she is a soldier now and there is a chain of command, and she ain't in that chain.

And that seems to matter to Michael? Sergeant Cross, from the beginning of the series, while paying lipservice to the chain of command, /does/ tend to act independently of it. I've always gotten the vibe from Michael that the military is an important part of his life, but hes grown weary of its inherent Bureaucracy. He /is choosing what orders he thinks are important, which isn't a bad thing, here, but does kind of illustratr why Riey's upset. Compared to everyone else, remember, she and Michael have been through tons, and it can't be good to prove yourself in the field and be an important member of the team on the Tower, to being relegated to a position on base becase they're afraid to trust you with anything that goes faster then a bb.

[Privateer]

Tetracycline (an antibiotic) can cause bones to have a yellow color over time, starting with the teeth. This is more apparent with high doses. Oh, and it is taken up more rapidly by growing bones.

If the agent causing people to turn is bacterial, maybe tetracycline could be helping to keep the little ones more human-like? I think it's unlikely, but it was my first thought when I was trying to figure out why the bones were yellow.

What was the antibiotic given to Saul? Pinstripes was in a hospital... Could have been dumping far too many meds, and created antibiotic resistent strains?

[LiamKerrington]

What about sulfur? Sulfur is yellow ... That was actually the first thing that struck me when Tanya spoke of yellow bones ...
Just an idea: What, if this whole Zombie-stuff is kind of hell let loose on earth? Like kinda doom-style and stuff ... Would explain the outbreak in many parts of the US as well as the world; would explain the deep cracks in the earth; would explain the weird conditions around ground zero; would explain the bitter and vile evilness everywhere; would explain the different types of zombies (like rooted in different demons and stuff ...).

[EpiEpee]

What was the antibiotic given to Saul? Pinstripes was in a hospital... Could have been dumping far too many meds, and created antibiotic resistent strains?

I'm pretty sure Saul was on Vancomycin, which is a different class of antibiotic. I didn't go back and relisten though, so could be wrong. The hospital would certainly have both a tetracycline agent and Vanc on hand, along with other antibiotics.

Also, further thinking...I think fluoride may cause yellowing of bones in high exposures. And it certainly hardens them. Could have been in the haze as a gas!

[Privateer]

What about sulfur? Sulfur is yellow ... That was actually the first thing that struck me when Tanya spoke of yellow bones ...
Just an idea: What, if this whole Zombie-stuff is kind of hell let loose on earth? Like kinda doom-style and stuff ... Would explain the outbreak in many parts of the US as well as the world; would explain the deep cracks in the earth; would explain the weird conditions around ground zero; would explain the bitter and vile evilness everywhere; would explain the different types of zombies (like rooted in different demons and stuff ...).

Given how straight KC's played the story so far... Its really hard to say the cause, but I want to doubt the supernatural. It doesn't fit into the world we're looking at. Then again, the cracks in the earth are strange too, because it involves something that causes difficulty breathibg in one person, but not another, that could case the disease, but not in everyone... is strange. What ever has caused the disease is going to be something intereasting. Its probably not hell or a military experiment, but, yes. What /is/ it?

[Penguine]

It might not matter that much to Michael but it might matter to others. I understand totally Michael and his military vibe, I lived it for 21 years, but there is a time and a place for you to be friendly with your subordinate and keep them in line at other times. LIke when she is popping off in the dining hall. He should of shut her down. He basically gave her stage to say what she wanted in front of the dinning hall. He could of shut her down then took her aside and let her vent. There are certain things you do behind closed doors, and certain things you do in the open. Just bad form on her part acting like that, and bad form on his part for letting her do it.

[Penguine]

I'm pretty sure Saul was on Vancomycin, which is a different class of antibiotic. I didn't go back and relisten though, so could be wrong. The hospital would certainly have both a tetracycline agent and Vanc on hand, along with other antibiotics.

Momma put him on two meds... Vancomycin and Clendomycin. Both through an IV.

[Privateer]

I'm pretty sure Saul was on Vancomycin, which is a different class of antibiotic. I didn't go back and relisten though, so could be wrong. The hospital would certainly have both a tetracycline agent and Vanc on hand, along with other antibiotics.

Also, further thinking...I think fluoride may cause yellowing of bones in high exposures. And it certainly hardens them. Could have been in the haze as a gas!

.... Dear God you may be onto something. Of course, it doesn't explain how the condition is so contagious... Perhaps the condition itself causes a buildup of Flouride? (a big change, but, well, zombies themselves are well changed enough already!) Or maybe the excess haze /caused the Little Ones somehow.

[LiamKerrington]

Looking at this discussion I wonder:
#2 was probably one of the 1st gen LOs ... And she has those yellow bones.
I wonder:
Since the infected LOs, so the 2nd gen or later ones, change so rapidly from human to zombie, do their bones change likewise? Based upon the discussion so far this should not be the case, because the 2nd gen LOs did not have the same treatment like the 1st gen supposedly had ...
On the contrary: Since the 2nd gen LOs seem to establish similar abilities (bullet proff skin, loss of pigments in the skin, ongoing process of changes (Roman), etc.), it would be kind of odd, if there bones would not change into yellow bones ... Therefore 'yellow' might be the result of redistribution of body substances or minerals or whatnot ...

[LiamKerrington]

at chain of command and stuff: I find it kind of weird, if Michael is meant to ground Riley for her behavior, because actually he is acting quite disturbingly different from what he is supposed to do regarding his position in relation to Col. Kimmet ...
I think Michael is doin' a good job with Riley - yeah, not the military style, but more the "comrade-style" considering their shared history in this zeeh-pocalypse; and keep in mind: as soon as Michael was ordered into active service, one of the first things he said was something along this line: "It's cool, I am not so in for all this formalism ..."

All the best!
Liam

[Cabbage Patch]

I had hoped that Griggs hadn't been turned, based on the slim reed that he was the last possible witness to the conversation at the LZ in Long Beach. Guess I got that one wrong. Or did I? Several people have discussed the possiblity that ADLOs might retain some of their knowledge from when they were human. What if it goes deeper than that, and some or all of their personality/intellect survive? Could it be possible to communicate with one?

[Penguine]

No one has mentioned the ADLO's heart. They way Tonya described it as being larger with extra arteries. That would be a genetic change. Would also give one hell of a lot of enduarnce. She didn't mention the lungs though.. Oh, but she did say fill em with enough holes and they die. So What makes these different then all the ones that were not dying early on from body shots? I remember Micheal saying that body shots were ineffective but head shots seemed to drop them like flies, but this ADLO was not head shot, just shot to hell with the mini-gun.

[Privateer]

No one has mentioned the ADLO's heart. They way Tonya described it as being larger with extra arteries. That would be a genetic change. Would also give one hell of a lot of enduarnce. She didn't mention the lungs though.. Oh, but she did say fill em with enough holes and they die. So What makes these different then all the ones that were not dying early on from body shots? I remember Micheal saying that body shots were ineffective but head shots seemed to drop them like flies, but this ADLO was not head shot, just shot to hell with the mini-gun.

Max Brooks has this one, I think. The zombies are immune to pain and shcok response, but still require everything people need, biologically. A, headshot turns it all off. Enough shots to the torso will do the trick, but a, shot to the lungs or liver or kidnies isn't going to stop them like it stops a human, right then, anyway. I don't beleive we've heard stories of zombies in WA crawling about with no lower half, after a long period.

This doesn't explain how the biters in other areas continue when their food supply runs out.

[Litmaster]

Griggs must have taken 11 days to get to Boulder. I come to this conclusion because Micheal said it was 11 days till the next transport left from Boulder to Irwin then the autopsy and they try and raise Boulder on the radio. Griggs averaged 2.7 miles per day through the mountains. Hmm... seems kind of slow.

He must have stopped off in Denver for a snack



Damn, this is one hell of a cliffhanger!
I went back and listened to the previous one, because this failure in communication seemed just unlikely to me, but actually we don't hear what Carl is saying to Michael, so he might have omitted something. Still, I found parts of this episode a bit "funny":
- 11 days and not a moment to read a single report about the crashed Chinook affair? Especially when it interested Michael so much he organized the autopsy behind Kimmet's back?
- we all thought "damn, it's only 30 miles from Boulder, they better be careful about that". I also commented on the previous episode that if they know one single little one is coming, with all the personnel they have they can take care of it no problem. Turns out they didn't know because Carl forgot to mention about the turned soldiers and Michael didn't read the report and did not think about the remaining one as a danger? Ahem. Ok.
- besides, do they really need to be told that one zombie, however special, can breed other zombies very fast?! I though that was the safest assumption to make. Isn't that like what happened since day one? They seem so surprised.

Hmmmm.... yeah, my suspension of disbelief was really stretched in this epidose... really? He didn't read the report all this time? Really? Griggs Longnails begins his strike at precisely the time of the autopsy / funeral? Hmmmm... a bit too convenient, if you ask me.



Samantha's hair was red. But that is an interesting idea. They never did explain what was meant by having them "play" with their prisoners on the arena floor.
I think its more likely they just got themselves ripped apart, but the thought that they got turned into Little Ones is definitely something to consider.

If I remember from that burnout dude (forget his name), some of the people were brought down to the arena floor and others were brought directly to the hospital, most likely to end up as Ink's Dirty Dozen. I think the 'play' on the arena floor was some kind of hideous torture.


I had hoped that Griggs hadn't been turned, based on the slim reed that he was the last possible witness to the conversation at the LZ in Long Beach. Guess I got that one wrong. Or did I? Several people have discussed the possiblity that ADLOs might retain some of their knowledge from when they were human. What if it goes deeper than that, and some or all of their personality/intellect survive? Could it be possible to communicate with one?

Yeah, the conversation would go something like this:

Griggs: "Me want eat you!"
Datu: "Wait! You were once human! We can work dis out!"
Griggs: "Work out nothing. Me eatum Filipino boy!" *lunge*
Datu: "Aaaaaaaaaah!" *munch* *crunch* *slurp* gulp*


...ah, this may not be so bad. Maybe if Datu was a zombie, he would stop acting like such a pussy. :)

[awkwardalex]

Holy crap, the whole time i thought, "It's gonna wake up, it's gonna sit up." (And don't tell me I'm alone, cheesy horror movies have trained us so) and then the end, wow, we could end up in bolder for the finale.

But the real question...are we gonna go back to the colony or stay with michael. Or even switch to bolder, because if you recall we have had pegs and datu lead the story before.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I wonder if they infect others with thier teeth. Tanya said it came out much easier than expected.

Remember I had that theory about Zombie Venom; way back when they were reviewing the video tape of that one biter who was salivating? I proposed that maybe the biters had the ability to "choose" who they infected. Like if they salivated enough in your wounds it was more likely to infect you, whereas if they didn't you possibly could survive a bite or scratch. Though I don't know what purpose not infecting a victim would serve. I just figured maybe that's how Datu and other playthings of Pinstripes managed to not get infected during capture.

Anywho, another reason, a more likely reason that the Inklings teeth fall off is to that they remain deadly sharp, just like a shark's teeth. Though I didn't hear Tanya comment on the sharpness of #2's teeth, just that she only had about 8 of them in the front.

[Hoff4D]

I had hoped that Griggs hadn't been turned, based on the slim reed that he was the last possible witness to the conversation at the LZ in Long Beach. Guess I got that one wrong. Or did I? Several people have discussed the possiblity that ADLOs might retain some of their knowledge from when they were human. What if it goes deeper than that, and some or all of their personality/intellect survive? Could it be possible to communicate with one?

I'm still with you, as far as the perspective of this story, we don't have recollection of the conversation on the ground at the LZ without Griggs alive.... There's several problems tho:

If he's not turned, how'd he get out?
If he's not turned, how did he make it weeks in the cold to Boulder?

If he IS turned, how do we hear the LZ conversation? It's possible he has a journal, or something akin to it, but when did he have time to write it? The ~1,000mile journey to the Chinook crash I guess, but I would think that entire ride would be chaos trying to keep Cap. Long alive...no?

Either way we choose is a bit far fetched given the evidence thus far, so I think Kc is going to play an angle none of us thought of, and Griggs has an epic Survivorman story to Boulder living off the wildlife somehow, and he arrives to Boulder a broken man, with no energy to even make it the final few feet to some sort of compound, so he shoots some powerlines down to get the attention of someone in the city to come get him. That's why we can't communicate with Boulder.


And to sum up where the season finale goes: The Hospital. Once they finally get ahold of Boulder and realize things are fine, Michael goes in guns blazing to find Ink, and how it all happened

[Hoff4D]

I wonder if they infect others with thier teeth. Tanya said it came out much easier than expected.

Remember I had that theory about Zombie Venom; way back when they were reviewing the video tape of that one biter who was salivating? I proposed that maybe the biters had the ability to "choose" who they infected. Like if they salivated enough in your wounds it was more likely to infect you, whereas if they didn't you possibly could survive a bite or scratch. Though I don't know what purpose not infecting a victim would serve. I just figured maybe that's how Datu and other playthings of Pinstripes managed to not get infected during capture.

Anywho, another reason, a more likely reason that the Inklings teeth fall off is to that they remain deadly sharp, just like a shark's teeth. Though I didn't hear Tanya comment on the sharpness of #2's teeth, just that she only had about 8 of them in the front.

I am a proponent of the 'choosing' who to infect theory, based solely on the grounds that they choose which ones to turn, and which ones to eat. The Inklings assess their need for food, eat, and turn the rest. Or if they realize they are in a losing battle, will choose to turn some of their enemies, to increase their odds.


Clever girl....

[Hoff4D]

Griggs must have taken 11 days to get to Boulder. I come to this conclusion because Micheal said it was 11 days till the next transport left from Boulder to Irwin then the autopsy and they try and raise Boulder on the radio. Griggs averaged 2.7 miles per day through the mountains. Hmm... seems kind of slow.

Slow for a ADLO, but perhaps about par for a starving soldier with no food just trying to make it one more step (in that respect, he may cover a 5-6 miles the first few days...and eventually slow down)

[cupcakezombie]

I wonder if they infect others with thier teeth. Tanya said it came out much easier than expected.

Remember I had that theory about Zombie Venom; way back when they were reviewing the video tape of that one biter who was salivating? I proposed that maybe the biters had the ability to "choose" who they infected. Like if they salivated enough in your wounds it was more likely to infect you, whereas if they didn't you possibly could survive a bite or scratch. Though I don't know what purpose not infecting a victim would serve. I just figured maybe that's how Datu and other playthings of Pinstripes managed to not get infected during capture.

Anywho, another reason, a more likely reason that the Inklings teeth fall off is to that they remain deadly sharp, just like a shark's teeth. Though I didn't hear Tanya comment on the sharpness of #2's teeth, just that she only had about 8 of them in the front.

I was really interested in the teeth, and I have two thoughts.

1. Remember that these original Little Ones were small at the start. Really small. What if these are still the baby/milk teeth. That would explain why there are so few and why they come out easily. If the teeth were getting ready to come out on their own then there wouldn't be much root structure and if the body had put its resourses in to growing in other areas rather than teeth they would just sit there. They don't seem to use biting as their primary attack, or at least they grab people to incapaciate them first. If this is the correct theory they would be maybe 4-7 when they turned (I can't remember properly and would have to look it up) but that would fit with the size from way back in season

2. With the bones in the jaw getting harder and stronger it could be killing the root structure of the teeth.

Either could tie in with Tanya talking about replacement teeth. I really want those X-Rays as they could provide a lot of information and maybe even age of the original little ones when they turned.
Also, I was thinking more about the nails, they must have continued to grow after the change. Not many people would have nails of that length in life, plus they seem to need to be be sharpened. That might mean they break and then re-grow.

Hmmm time to go ponder more.

[Hoff4D]

Samantha's hair was red. But that is an interesting idea. They never did explain what was meant by having them "play" with their prisoners on the arena floor.
I think its more likely they just got themselves ripped apart, but the thought that they got turned into Little Ones is definitely something to consider.

It is an interesting idea, and is backed by Samantha demanding Datu NOT to watch...so we have no eyewitness accounts of what they do in the arena....I think it's obvious there's something to do with the hospital as well, but perhaps the arena ties in, maybe Ink holds tryouts in the arena to decide who he considers well enough to make into an Inkling.


Moreover, adding creedance to the antibiotic theory, Maybe the 'tryouts' are to see who is immune to the BASE virus. Those who survive, he pumps full of some extra shit and antibiotics and gets this ALMOST zombie hybrid of badassery. If Saul was scratched/bitten by a ADLO/Inkling, he may turn, but the norms have no affect on him.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Slow for a ADLO, but perhaps about par for a starving soldier with no food just trying to make it one more step (in that respect, he may cover a 5-6 miles the first few days...and eventually slow down)


Griggs must have taken 11 days to get to Boulder. I come to this conclusion because Micheal said it was 11 days till the next transport left from Boulder to Irwin then the autopsy and they try and raise Boulder on the radio. Griggs averaged 2.7 miles per day through the mountains. Hmm... seems kind of slow.

What's worse is that perhaps it arrived much sooner and waited, assessing the best time to attack. Hell, it may have even spied the Black Hawk leaving the crash site and noted which direction the chopper was headed, using that as it's only bearings to find Boulder. Once there, it could have just been lurking in the nearby woods, surveying the fortifications and keeping tabs on the security. Or maybe it waited for a scouting party to come to it, then turned all of them, increasing it's numbers.

I dunno, the more I let my imagination run with it, the more these Inklings sounds pretty damn scary.

It seems a bit too coincidental that the day after Carl returns with the corpses, is the day that Ft. Irwin loses contact with Boulder. I tell you that son-of-a-gun was waiting for the chopper to leave or something. Weird.

[Hoff4D]

What's worse is that perhaps it arrived much sooner and waited, assessing the best time to attack. Hell, it may have even spied the Black Hawk leaving the crash site and noted which direction the chopper was headed, using that as it's only bearings to find Boulder. Once there, it could have just been lurking in the nearby woods, surveying the fortifications and keeping tabs on the security. Or maybe it waited for a scouting party to come to it, then turned all of them, increasing it's numbers.

I dunno, the more I let my imagination run with it, the more these Inklings sounds pretty damn scary.

It seems a bit too coincidental that the day after Carl returns with the corpses, is the day that Ft. Irwin loses contact with Boulder. I tell you that son-of-a-gun was waiting for the chopper to leave or something. Weird.

As I read this, <edit> You're </edit> talking me into my own theory more that they choose who to eat, and who to turn via some bodily functions, and they are the distant relatives of Velociraptors, turned by the Jurassic Haze pouring out of the planets.

Really, Pterodactyls are just around the corner...

[cupcakezombie]

Oh and a thought on Michael not having read the journal. Notice that Tanya also didn't seem to have read the report.
Maybe Kimmett grabbed the reports first and had them for a while and when he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary (not noticed though his haze of grief).
And it sounds like the rescue team went to Boulder first, where the body was, so Michaels would have got a lot of the information from radio/sat phone reports, and by the time the reports came in not have thought it was such a priority to read them.
Yes, he should have read them, but this chain of events might make it more likely why he hadn't after 11 days.

[Penguine]

News Report from Boulder, Co... Masssive snow storm knocks out all power to the city, stay tuned for more from Chanel 7 News... Massive Army response from Ft. Irwin arrived this morning to deal with the massive snow storm and restore power, city still secure, stay tuned to Channel 7 News for more at 10pm...

Here we are all thinking/hoping for the worst, and watch it turn out to be anti-climactic. LOL.. That would suck.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I agree with cakes, Michael probably felt he had a good understanding of the situation from what he heard over the phone call. Plus I'm certain Kimmet had him doing other shit in those 11 days. I doubt he was just sitting on his ass playing Gameboy. He was likely on more missions in nearby areas, scavenging, and the like. In my opinion, he probably bumped the written report down on his list of priorities. He and Carl had a little tiff over it because Carl did mention that Robbins was shooting other soldiers that were turning, but the whole phone call was stressed so some details might have been lost. It was a just a miscommunication, but I sensed that Michael was in the wrong and got a little upset and defensive.

Haven't you ever known you are wrong yet you still get upset that someone calls you out on it? Tanya saw through the bullshit and knew it was pointless to argue. She seems to understand Michael pretty well now. I say kudos to Tanya for getting the conversation back on track.

[Adventureless_Hero]

News Report from Boulder, Co... Masssive snow storm knocks out all power to the city, stay tuned for more from Chanel 7 News... Massive Army response from Ft. Irwin arrived this morning to deal with the massive snow storm and restore power, city still secure, stay tuned to Channel 7 News for more at 10pm...

Here we are all thinking/hoping for the worst, and watch it turn out to be anti-climactic. LOL.. That would suck.

massivelyanti-climactic? *snicker*

[Natagora]

Something doesn't smell right to me with regards to the Boulder situation. I find it hard to believe that the last word from them was only two hours prior to them finding out about Griggs.

Not only that but if Griggs had attacked, surely someone, somewhere, would've reported some form of a mayday to Irwin. How can (and I quote) 'all of their systems' be offline after a one-zombie attack; without even one 'emergency code' being sent to Irwin?

Unless I've grossly underestimated zombie Griggs I cannot see how he can wipe out an entire colony without word getting out.

[awkwardalex]

What was the antibiotic given to Saul? Pinstripes was in a hospital... Could have been dumping far too many meds, and created antibiotic resistent strains?

Saul was on a 1000 mg each of Vancomycin and clindomycin to very powerful last resort antiboitics.

[awkwardalex]

I agree with cakes, Michael probably felt he had a good understanding of the situation from what he heard over the phone call. Plus I'm certain Kimmet had him doing other shit in those 11 days. I doubt he was just sitting on his ass playing Gameboy. He was likely on more missions in nearby areas, scavenging, and the like. In my opinion, he probably bumped the written report down on his list of priorities. He and Carl had a little tiff over it because Carl did mention that Robbins was shooting other soldiers that were turning, but the whole phone call was stressed so some details might have been lost. It was a just a miscommunication, but I sensed that Michael was in the wrong and got a little upset and defensive.

Haven't you ever known you are wrong yet you still get upset that someone calls you out on it? Tanya saw through the bullshit and knew it was pointless to argue. She seems to understand Michael pretty well now. I say kudos to Tanya for getting the conversation back on track.

I think that Michael, while having other things on his plate, may have assumed that there was not much to read about and assumed tjat everything carl told him was there.

[Kc]

Hmmmm.... yeah, my suspension of disbelief was really stretched in this epidose... really? He didn't read the report all this time? Really? Griggs Longnails begins his strike at precisely the time of the autopsy / funeral? Hmmmm... a bit too convenient, if you ask me.


Yeah, regrettably even I have to agree with that. There was a structure change near the last minute before recording on the 7th draft and there's now a little hanging chad that I don't like that got left over. I will be doing a small tweak on this before the remaster. The story will be the same. I only mention it because I too agree that it feels a little sloppy.

[Cabbage Patch]

Oh and a thought on Michael not having read the journal. Notice that Tanya also didn't seem to have read the report.
Maybe Kimmett grabbed the reports first and had them for a while and when he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary (not noticed though his haze of grief).
And it sounds like the rescue team went to Boulder first, where the body was, so Michaels would have got a lot of the information from radio/sat phone reports, and by the time the reports came in not have thought it was such a priority to read them.
Yes, he should have read them, but this chain of events might make it more likely why he hadn't after 11 days.

If this was the first flight back from Boulder after the Chinook crash how much do you want to bet that Carl's report came back on the same plane? I can picture Carl getting a sealed courier satchel in Boulder to carry back to Fort Irwin that contains his report, now classified to the point that he doesn't have clearance to read it, let alone know that he's carrying it.

[Kc]

If this was the first flight back from Boulder after the Chinook crash how much do you want to bet that Carl's report came back on the same plane? I can picture Carl getting a sealed courier satchel in Boulder to carry back to Fort Irwin that contains his report, now classified to the point that he doesn't have clearance to read it, let alone know that he's carrying it.

Bingo. And that's not as clear as it should be in the story. It'll be an easy fix.

[Privateer]

Oh, and before I forget, props on the music in the Beginning of the Episode. It was delightfully retro and gave the feeling of dark pulpy adventure. So, props to that little bit of atmosphere during Michael's VO.

[Kc]

Oh, and before I forget, props on the music in the Beginning of the Episode. It was delightfully retro and gave the feeling of dark pulpy adventure. So, props to that little bit of atmosphere during Michael's VO.

Thanks. We used that a lot in the first season. It's sorta retro for us ;)

[Hoff4D]

I also just want to note that in Part 2 we're getting a direct report from Robbins, yet he didnt come back on this plane to Ft. Irwin (or so it seems in his absence with something he had hands on bringing back)

So my assumption, based on the syntax we're subscribed to via the journals and such, Robbins is either a last surviving member of the Boulder crew, or Boulder is fine and merely offline due to a storm power outage, ADLO-Griggs knocking out a power/communications hub, cuz its super smart (read: Burt from Season 1 pointing out smart ones have badges from Radon labs, and Skittles pointing out to avoid doctors offices and Bookstores, as they are smarter) and a good amount of knowledge to begin with, MAY be retained in zombie form, so Griggs knows where to go, and how to attack, OR my favorite theory, as stated before, a distressed 2-week strung out near-dead Griggs on the run shoots out some comm lines in a last ditch effort to get attention and get saved.

[Privateer]

I also just want to note that in Part 2 we're getting a direct report from Robbins, yet he didnt come back on this plane to Ft. Irwin (or so it seems in his absence with something he had hands on bringing back)

So my assumption, based on the syntax we're subscribed to via the journals and such, Robbins is either a last surviving member of the Boulder crew, or Boulder is fine and merely offline due to a storm power outage, ADLO-Griggs knocking out a power/communications hub, cuz its super smart (read: Burt from Season 1 pointing out smart ones have badges from Radon labs, and Skittles pointing out to avoid doctors offices and Bookstores, as they are smarter) and a good amount of knowledge to begin with, MAY be retained in zombie form, so Griggs knows where to go, and how to attack, OR my favorite theory, as stated before, a distressed 2-week strung out near-dead Griggs on the run shoots out some comm lines in a last ditch effort to get attention and get saved.

Or Robbins sent his report back with the other report on the plane to Irwin. There /is/ a storm, but its a question as to if KC plans on making Boulder go boom, thus destroying the only signifigant survivor population, or if we're going to get a tense time as the team hunts down Griggs. Or maybe, becauase of the storm, their chopper goes down, and they have to survive until rescued. Or yes, maybe we get The Gray 2 starring Griggs. Actually, that'd be the most awesome....

Actually, the other zombies were still milling outside the helicoptor. If Griggs had been turned, wouldn't he have stuck around too?

[nikvoodoo]

Pfft....this pisode sucked.................... ;)

I had thoughts of independence day during the autopsy, but it was only fleeting. Ever hear that court room transcript of the lawyer asking the coroner if the "patient" may have been alive at the time of their autopsy? Coroner says no. Lawyer says how can you be sure? Coroner says the subject's brain was removed and on a scale on his desk. Lawyer says so its possible. Coroner replied sure I guess he could have been practicing law.

Long way of saying once the organs started to be shifted I had no fears.

I'm glad kimmet finally listened. Does suck that he's too late. But now we know how we got Mr. adult friend finders journal/log. Which i now see privateer beat me too it. If we hear from boulder before a team is sent, I'll be surprised if it isn't "found footage". But at the least Pegs survives to keep my dream alive

[Hoff4D]

Pfft....this pisode sucked.................... ;)

I had thoughts of independence day during the autopsy, but it was only fleeting. Ever hear that court room transcript of the lawyer asking the coroner if the "patient" may have been alive at the time of their autopsy? Coroner says no. Lawyer says how can you be sure? Coroner says the subject's brain was removed and on a scale on his desk. Lawyer says so its possible. Coroner replied sure I guess he could have been practicing law.

Long way of saying once the organs started to be shifted I had no fears.

I'm glad kimmet finally listened. Does suck that he's too late. But now we know how we got Mr. adult friend finders journal/log. Which i now see privateer beat me too it. If we hear from boulder before a team is sent, I'll be surprised if it isn't "found footage". But at the least Pegs survives to keep my dream alive

Yep, my bad, that report could definitely be delivered back now that you've pointed that out.... I'm still standing by (As privateer so eloquently put it) the Grey 2 theory tho, lol

[Privateer]

Another note. We kinda got an impression of Kimmet's leadership style in this episode, and apparently its asshole to the men. Now, of course, hes grieving, his neice is dead, but he can't bother to glance at a soldiers name tape, is dissmissive of their concerns, and,while he'd recognize Tanya, the one soldier in his command with a French accent he doesn't seem to bother recalling at all, despite Michael's discussion of getting her out into the field. Kinda a stretch, but, he seems very dissmissive of most ideas coming from his own damn intelligence Sergeant. "More LA stories, collaborated through timely, written accounts and interviews with like, 6 survivors? Come back when a soldier who hasn't been there before spends a few days and puts it on a map."

[ferroaj]

I also thought about how the LO's eyes were normal compared to regulars. Also when Ink was in the tower Michael described his eyes as being bright green. It seems that Ink and the Little Ones have normal eyes. Maybe some importance maybe not. Thoughts?

Eyes are traditionally "windows to the soul". In the LO's case, their eyes are still clear, which is why I'm thinking these are some human/zombie hybrid. They still have a hint of clarity, of humanity. We don't have much evidence of it, but I believe the Little Ones are really smart. Eyes also communicate intelligence--think to all of the people who describe an encounter with a whale or dolphin "you can just look into its eyes and you know that it's thinking". I think they're perfectly capable of learning, planning, using tools and technology. Plus, they're developing physically and it only makes sense that they'd be developing mentally too. It's possible that the transition from human to LO just resets all of the synapses of their brains. The infection grows valves and arteries on hearts, so rewiring a brain isn't too farfetched. It's almost like they're children all over again -- relearning how to manipulate their environments to get the outcomes they want. From then on, it's operant conditioning. Good behaviors get repeated; You learn from what you observe, so sit in the shadows or hang in the trees and watch. If they can still understand the concept of death (something a normal zombie doesn't even consider), they can feel danger, maybe even fear, which would further encourage careful planning and risk analysis.

I'm pretty stuck on the idea that Ink is their creator, and we know there are at least 12, right? I love the idea that we have NO idea how many he's created. He could still be creating and numbering away in his lab. The fact that Ink numbers his creations intrigues me. Normally, things that you care about (even lab subjects) have names. Numbers are the opposite of humanizing. Numbers are for criminals and masses. The Jews in Auschwitz were tattooed with numbers, too. The human survivors are clinging to names as a societal comfort, and they get uncomfortable when that is taken away, like Kimmet's refusal to read Carl's nametag.

So what if their selection isn't so much an honor. Maybe it's a punishment. It could explain the self-inflicted wounds too. It could be repentance, a pain response, a response to psychological trauma, who knows? Maybe retaining some humanity is actually a curse for the special ones... Maybe they can still feel all their human emotions?

[Condor]

Something doesn't smell right to me with regards to the Boulder situation. I find it hard to believe that the last word from them was only two hours prior to them finding out about Griggs.

Not only that but if Griggs had attacked, surely someone, somewhere, would've reported some form of a mayday to Irwin. How can (and I quote) 'all of their systems' be offline after a one-zombie attack; without even one 'emergency code' being sent to Irwin?

Unless I've grossly underestimated zombie Griggs I cannot see how he can wipe out an entire colony without word getting out.
Short of an EMP, which I doubt, it does seem hard to believe all systems go out at once. Maybe knocking out power would kill phones, computers, telegraph, etc. but what about satellite phones, seems logical someone would get off a SOS.


Until proven wrong, I'm still inclined to think there was more than 1 cling-on outside the Chinook. They did say there were 5 holes which were all assumed to be made by #2, but maybe not. Maybe there's more than Griggs roaming near Boulder.

[Mikey Famine]

Anyone else hold their breath during the autopsy? I was waiting on every single syllable that came out of Tanya's mouth.

[Hoff4D]

Eyes are traditionally "windows to the soul". In the LO's case, their eyes are still clear, which is why I'm thinking these are some human/zombie hybrid. They still have a hint of clarity, of humanity. We don't have much evidence of it, but I believe the Little Ones are really smart. Eyes also communicate intelligence--think to all of the people who describe an encounter with a whale or dolphin "you can just look into its eyes and you know that it's thinking". I think they're perfectly capable of learning, planning, using tools and technology. Plus, they're developing physically and it only makes sense that they'd be developing mentally too. It's possible that the transition from human to LO just resets all of the synapses of their brains. The infection grows valves and arteries on hearts, so rewiring a brain isn't too farfetched. It's almost like they're children all over again -- relearning how to manipulate their environments to get the outcomes they want. From then on, it's operant conditioning. Good behaviors get repeated; You learn from what you observe, so sit in the shadows or hang in the trees and watch. If they can still understand the concept of death (something a normal zombie doesn't even consider), they can feel danger, maybe even fear, which would further encourage careful planning and risk analysis.

I'm pretty stuck on the idea that Ink is their creator, and we know there are at least 12, right? I love the idea that we have NO idea how many he's created. He could still be creating and numbering away in his lab. The fact that Ink numbers his creations intrigues me. Normally, things that you care about (even lab subjects) have names. Numbers are the opposite of humanizing. Numbers are for criminals and masses. The Jews in Auschwitz were tattooed with numbers, too. The human survivors are clinging to names as a societal comfort, and they get uncomfortable when that is taken away, like Kimmet's refusal to read Carl's nametag.

So what if their selection isn't so much an honor. Maybe it's a punishment. It could explain the self-inflicted wounds too. It could be repentance, a pain response, a response to psychological trauma, who knows? Maybe retaining some humanity is actually a curse for the special ones... Maybe they can still feel all their human emotions?

I think the 'self-inflicted wounds' we see has something to do with the way in which the virus is passed, at least as far as the little ones virus is. Based on the crummy teeth, and previous theory of choosing who to turn and who to eat, I think they scratch more to turn, not bite. Think of a little one scratching a human, it would be a crazy big scratch due to those nails, and if you grow substantially following this to be a 6' + ADLO, the scratches would make sense to grow as well, making them more prominent.....They may appear self-inflicted, but perhaps they are just the means of turning.

[Lilydragon]

Anyone else hold their breath during the autopsy? I was waiting on every single syllable that came out of Tanya's mouth.

I was! I kept thinking the LO was going to come back to life. At the end of the episode all I wanted to do was scream NOOOOOO!!! Because I didn't want it to end, and I don't want to wait for the next episode.:mad:

[LiamKerrington]

I will be doing a small tweak on this before the remaster. The story will be the same.

Remaster in the sense of new version of #33-3 or remaster in the sense of audio-cd-version?

[Witch_Doctor]

Wow, seems like almost everything I had to say has already been said.

Anyone else notice that the date of this episode puts the story at the Colony and Fort Irwin on the same day? December 16th.

Tanya says that :
The Inkling has almost no body hair (Can be taken two ways, No body hair like dolphins and whales are hairless, or no body hair as in no pubic hair)
The Inkling was flat chested (Could be due to undeveloped breasts or over developed pectoral muscles.)
A number of missing teeth yet growing others in the mouth.
Lack of root developement in teeth.
Stretch marks down the length of the limbs.
Unable to tell the level of sexual maturity.

Sounds like they very well may have started as children after all.

During the autopsy I kept expecting one of those little things that live inside the Daleks on Doctor Who to jump out and scurry across the floor.
I'm soooo glad that there wasn't a mixup with the bodies. That would have been too Three's Company-ish.
I find it strange, too, that Boulder can't be reached hours after pvt. Thomas leaves. Even Kalani managed to get out a radio call when the other tower was being over-run.
Infact, communication seems to go quickly. Someone mentioned an EMP (Cabbagepatch) an EMP would take out more than the telecom system. Almosty all electronic devices world have failed. Can't help thinking of the 28 days Later. What if the pacific states are quarentined from the rest of the world?

Gott to go to bed, beginning to type crazy suff.

[Robzombie]

Holy crap! Just finally listened, oh man oh man i was on edge during that autopsy...but what the hell was michael doing for the two weeks since the recovery mission to the autopsy that he as the head intel guy hasnt read that report yet?!

Also the fact that absolutely no emergency message made its way out makes me think that it really isnt an emergency at all and indeed the weather has affected comms. Remember when michael and the gang first arrive at fort Irwin...the end of that chapter where they are walking away from the chopper, listening, then we hear a zombie and Michael says 'oh shit', and we leave that episode thinking the place is full of zombies, but it turned out to just be one. I think this is the same thing.

Little ones, yup im more confidant that they were from the nursery.

[Privateer]

Wow, seems like almost everything I had to say has already been said.

Anyone else notice that the date of this episode puts the story at the Colony and Fort Irwin on the same day? December 16th.

Tanya says that :
The Inkling has almost no body hair (Can be taken two ways, No body hair like dolphins and whales are hairless, or no body hair as in no pubic hair)
The Inkling was flat chested (Could be due to undeveloped breasts or over developed pectoral muscles.)
A number of missing teeth yet growing others in the mouth.
Lack of root developement in teeth.
Stretch marks down the length of the limbs.
Unable to tell the level of sexual maturity.

Sounds like they very well may have started as children after all.

During the autopsy I kept expecting one of those little things that live inside the Daleks on Doctor Who to jump out and scurry across the floor.
I'm soooo glad that there wasn't a mixup with the bodies. That would have been too Three's Company-ish.
I find it strange, too, that Boulder can't be reached hours after pvt. Thomas leaves. Even Kalani managed to get out a radio call when the other tower was being over-run.
Infact, communication seems to go quickly. Someone mentioned an EMP (Cabbagepatch) an EMP would take out more than the telecom system. Almosty all electronic devices world have failed. Can't help thinking of the 28 days Later. What if the pacific states are quarentined from the rest of the world?

Gott to go to bed, beginning to type crazy suff.

Thank you, sharp eared person! I kinda figured things were going on in Tandem, but I didn't realize that both days were the same... hmm... we should pay attention to that! I have a feeling that the timing is going to be very important in the next couple chapters.

See, me, I don't know if I was worried about it getting up again, but I was worried about Tanya or Riley cutting themselves, or otherwise infecting themselves. That would've been baaaaaaaaad.

And, hmm. I had thought of that, but, putting all the data together, it does look like the little one's started as children. Wooooow, Pinstripes just got one level scarier.

I don't think its an EMP device. We've got no indication that anyone /has/ an EMP device, or would want to use one. I do think that the storm took down some lines, and is causing problems with Radio and SatPhone communications. Just so happens to happen right after the warning. I mean, unless KC plans on killing Boulder, which... I don't think will happen. Boulder is the last bastion of civilization and humanity. If it goes, and is not replaced, a lot of the work Michael is doing to figure out the nature of things becomes.... well, a bit meaningless. Facilities for manufacturing and serious research would be limited, but, without a sizable human population, what are they working to save?

That being said, I don't put it past our favorite writer, not at all!

As for a quarantine of the west coast, I had thought about that too, considering they haven't had any communications /with/ that side of the country. Its a fun thought, that should they scout out, they'll find... something hopeful. But that means the east coast would have to have had voluntarily shut down communications with the West, and that would be silly, considering they have a loyal military command on the west coast, they don't have any reason to /shut down/ communications. I could see Kimmet knowing and not telling anyone, but we haven't gotten any indication the the Colonel is holding something that huge back, and Sergeant Cross, being in intelligence, would've probably sniffed /something/ out. But, maybe no one knows the proper phone number.

Brings to question, does anyone remember if the our survivors tried to utilize a HAM radio, shortwave, or anything else that might have superior range to whatever was normally available (I imagine Boulder probably has an AM/FM transmitting station, at least.)

[Cabbage Patch]

I did a little research to see what was happening in Boulder, CO during our time line on December 16, 2009. That was the day of the Boulder Homebrewers Festival. No one's answering the phones? Maybe not a problem after all.

[clem131]

Thanks. We used that a lot in the first season. It's sorta retro for us ;)

I am also very curious about the foley for this. Please tell me you're putting a video on your youtube account with you messing with chicken livers on the stage!!! :D

[Witch_Doctor]

Brings to question, does anyone remember if the our survivors tried to utilize a HAM radio, shortwave, or anything else that might have superior range to whatever was normally available (I imagine Boulder probably has an AM/FM transmitting station, at least.)

Glenn mentions both HAM and Shortwave in his telecom grab bag back at the colony. The radio silence is just mystifying. An EMP can be created by exploding a nuke above the atmosphere but that would also knock out other electronics. Sat phone and GPS satellites are still working.

Also, NAVY vessels; subs, aircraft carrier groups... wouldn't they still be out there?

Guessing the next chapter will split between Colony/Irwin/Boulder or some combination of two out of the three.

Now that the chapter is over does anyone have a clue as to what the title means? I'm probably over-thinking it. It's winter, things are going to get bloody. Nuff said, right? Red Winter, pretty straight forward, huh? On Facebook KC mentioned liking Game of Thrones when announcing the title and I thought that may have something to do with it.

Thoughts?

[Robzombie]

I think it was just in regards to the death and mayhem during the recovery mission. A battle in the snow.

[Wilsas]

Hmm, in going to hell for this, but maybe ft. Irvin can't reach Boulder because Hope is the only person in comms room there?
I can totally see her going at her milk bottle cap radio:

Radio: This is Boulder, please respond.
Hope: Hello? Yes, this is Hope, can you hear me? We are under attack!
Radio: Anyone can hear me? Please respond.
(*optional)Zombie: Rawr. How you doin'?

[nikvoodoo]

Holy crap! Just finally listened, oh man oh man i was on edge during that autopsy...but what the hell was michael doing for the two weeks since the recovery mission to the autopsy that he as the head intel guy hasnt read that report yet?!



Kc spoke about this earlier in the thread. He didn't read the report because it had just arrived with the body from CO. It wasn't explained well.

[Robzombie]

Kc spoke about this earlier in the thread. He didn't read the report because it had just arrived with the body from CO. It wasn't explained well.

Arrived with the body, okay I got ya. Thanks for that.

[nikvoodoo]

Arrived with the body, okay I got ya. Thanks for that.

ain't no thang. I came here to make the same comment of "WTFBBQ" but I saw the convo earlier and was like "oh....makes total sense!"

[Adventureless_Hero]

Hmmmm.... yeah, my suspension of disbelief was really stretched in this epidose... really? He didn't read the report all this time? Really? Griggs Longnails begins his strike at precisely the time of the autopsy / funeral? Hmmmm... a bit too convenient, if you ask me.


Yeah, regrettably even I have to agree with that. There was a structure change near the last minute before recording on the 7th draft and there's now a little hanging chad that I don't like that got left over. I will be doing a small tweak on this before the remaster. The story will be the same. I only mention it because I too agree that it feels a little sloppy.

So is this an admission that Boulder is indeed under attack by Griggs as an ADLO?

The timing of it sure is coincidental, but I don't find it odd. Sometimes things just work like that. But I did read into it and assume that if Boulder was in fact under attack from biters, then perhaps Griggs (as an ADLO) followed the Black Hawk as it left the Chinook crash, arrived near Boulder, then got a little lost. Then when the chopper departing Boulder for Ft. Irwin left, he heard it and was able to finally close in on Boulder. That would account for why the attack seems to coincide with the funeral?

[Blood & Ice Cream]

Some wild theories here but unsure if this has been mentioned before but could this be related to some forms of Sclerosis? Hardened leathery skin, tough bones, abnormal heart/organs, weak teeth.

Plus white pale skin - Raynauds Disease can be associated with sclerosis and maybe why the regular zombies are slowing up in the cold temperatures.

Also related to Raynauds Disease is Vasculitis, which Is the inflammation of the veins or arteries, and is more common in females - I wonder if all the little ones are female?

These conditions are autoimmune diseases and as such can be spread between people by microchimerism - this may be how the infection is spread from one zombie to another human or from little one to advanced little one

Anyway - Wikipedia is great from random theories!

[nikvoodoo]

I thought we agreed we'd call them Inklings. What's with all this ALDO crap? It sounds like dog food!! :p

[Kc]

Anyway - Wikipedia is great from random theories!

I suspect people will consult webMD next.

[Blood & Ice Cream]

Nooo! Inklings make them sound cute, whilst these things are quite the opposite!


I suspect people will consult webMD next.

Goes off to investigate.....

[LiamKerrington]

I thought we agreed we'd call them Inklings. What's with all this ALDO crap? It sounds like dog food!! :p

It IS dog food ... I stick with Lizzy's wording: Little Ones; also this is what they are named in the Wiki ... Don't wonna mess around ... It already is hard to cope with all the different theories ...

[Robzombie]

Yeah, Saul says because Lizzie named them that, they're still called Little Ones even though they ain't so little....personally I'm sticking with that. It reminds us of what they once were.

[LiamKerrington]

I don't think that the West-Coast is cut off from the East-Coast in terms of quarantine or stuff. Remember Col. Kimmet describing how almost all of the US was under heavy outbreak-fire? He even mentioned New York and Chicago as places of the outbreak; therefore it seems to be unlikely that West-Coast to 1.000mi land-inwards (Boulder) would be cut off, while the rest of the US would be cool with bubble-tea-drinking and McDonald-eating looking forward to having an zombified Walt Disneyland all around the West-Coast ...

Anyway: I finally concur - the autopsy of the Little One #2 points at at least some (all?) of them were small children at the time of the outbreak, maybe even babies, although babies in the nursery usually don't have any teeth at all (except for the predisposition under the skin and within their jaws...); so I think it as to be more likely that the little ones 1. gen (first generation, numbered ones) could have been very little to young children somewhere between the age of 1 and 5 years or something ...

I really admired the autopsy btw. And I admit it: I expected things between the Little One jumping to undeadism again on the one extreme and on the other blood-based infections of Riley, the red-shirt-soldier or maybe even Tanya with Tanya proving again that she is all Lord-sent-Angel-from-Heaven being immune to this D&D monster manual stuff ...

The more I listen to #33-3, I don't like the 11 day jump, the 2 hours gap and all of a sudden hell breaks loose, which is why I look forward to the next chapters.

Comparing the cliffhanger in #32-3 I actually expect chapter #34 to be about Fort Irwin and especially Boulder again ... and in #35 and #36 things and main-characters will be connected again ...

All the best!
Liam

[nikvoodoo]

Nooo! Inklings make them sound cute, whilst these things are quite the opposite!

It's was supposed to be that way! *grumble* stupid forum not taking the inkling name and going with Dog food.....stupid........





;) :p


I don't think that the West-Coast is cut off from the East-Coast in terms of quarantine or stuff. Remember Col. Kimmet describing how almost all of the US was under heavy outbreak-fire? He even mentioned New York and Chicago as a places of the outbreak; therefore it seems to be unlikely that West-Coast to 1.000mi land-inwards (Boulder) would be cut off, while the rest of the US would be cool bubble-tea-drinking and McDonald-eating guys looking froward to having an zombified Walt Disneyland all around the West-Coast ...

Kimmet didn't say there were outbreaks in Chicago and New York. He said the outbreak reached Chicago and New York.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I thought we agreed we'd call them Inklings. What's with all this ALDO crap? It sounds like dog food!! :p

Well I totally wanted to go with Inkling for all references to a creature that used to be a little one but is no longer little, whether he be turned or one of these creatures from the get-go.

But reading through the posts it seems like there is an unspoken consensus that Inkling refers to a tattooed creature while ADLO refers to a human turned into a creature by an Inkling.

Fuck it, I'm going with Inkling from here on out! The movement continues!

[LiamKerrington]

Ok. Then I understood or misunderstood "reached" as "having an outbreak" as well ... And in #29 Col. Kimmet describes the situation as this: "Boulder and Fort Wirin are the only safe zones in the continental US. ... We lost contact with everyone on the East Coast about a week after the West was hit. ... it multiplied and spread within one and a half days ... we know a few hotspots along the coast line ... we think of two in the Bay area ... "

So, yeah: I was wrong with naming Chicago and New York; I just anticipated as much ...

Well, but anyway: for me it is hard to believe, that the West Coast (which has several hotspots - San Diego, L.A., Oregon, Seattle) is quarantined from the rest of the US ... I may be wrong, but who actually cares ... ;)

[Kc]

Kimmet didn't say there were outbreaks in Chicago and New York. He said the outbreak reached Chicago and New York.

I was gonna say that didn't sound right...

And to quote Saul about calling them little ones... "Lizzy said it, stickin' to it"

[Witch_Doctor]

I wonder what is involved in the 'turning' process. Specifically the outward appearances as viewed by others. Right now I can think of only a handful of instances where we witness someone turning in real-time.

Tommy
Fernando
The three Blackhawk soldiers.
* Riley gives an account of people turning in Chapter 1 part 2. NOTE: Not everyone turned at the same rate.
* Some of the members of the Mallers' arena convoy turn while they're under attack, but we don't see this happen.


Of the three that we saw:

Tommy was infected through blood contact.
Fernando is bitten. I believe he is the first one that we know to have turned via a bite.
Not clear how the Blackhawk soldiers were infected.


From the sounds of turning:

Tommy starts off agitated and irritable. Loses the ability to speak then growls and grunts. Turns hostile.
Fernando pleads for help and sounds as if in pain. Loses speech, growls grunts. Then he is killed.
Soldiers follow same as Fernando but they are alive long enough to become hostile before being killed.


I think this post belongs in this thread because there may be a number of ways one can turn. Does anyone remember an instance or description of someone turning via bite before Fernando? How did Tommy's sister, Sally? Susie? Turn?

We know you can turn from bites, blood exchange, and something from ground zero. What about the 'slow turner?' We don't know if this person was exposed at one point and turned like the others weeks later or was gradually turning throughout the duration. If the latter, then could this person have described the process from a Z's perspective or would this person go through changes like mood swings and not be aware of it. Also, from Riley's account, not everyone sprayed with Z-blood turned right away. Perhaps, not only do different Zs spread the infection through different means but different people catch it in different ways.

What if the Ground Zero vector is airborne? How about the Blackhawk Inkling? Pvt Thomas, Michael, Tanya, Riley and possibly Puck all got a good whiff of Z-Funk when they opened the body bag. This brings me to the odd pissing match between Michael and Carl. Mike's been calmer lately but his combativeness is not out of the ordinary. Carl was the most aggressive as he had shown his aggressiveness to a superior. Riley is on anger-management pills. Tanya may have some sort of immunity. Puck's from NYC so anything he says will seem angry. Pus Carl has had the most exposure.

If there is a problem in Boulder it could have come from the Blackhawk and not Griggs.

:tinfoil:

[nikvoodoo]

I was gonna say that didn't sound right...

And to quote Saul about calling them little ones... "Lizzy said it, stickin' to it"

Screw that Lizzy chick. INKLINGS FTW! ;)

[Bonnonon]

Hey Kc! Did you really have to make the saw and medical stuff sound so gross. :S by the way great episode.

For the saw what tool did you use? It sounded like a skill saw...

[Kc]

Hey Kc! Did you really have to make the saw and medical stuff sound so gross. :S by the way great episode.

For the saw what tool did you use? It sounded like a skill saw...

I'm most likely going to have Robert from our sound design team post the picture... I think it would be very amusing.

[IamPaul]

O yea I called it! (At least the zed making it's way to Boulder) I'm so excited, i'm so excited, i'm so......scared (for the future of Boulder and our friends there).

[Robzombie]

Kinda jumpin the gun dontcha think??? Only thing thats happened is a loss of comms, and were left to think that mayyyybeeee the worst has happened. I,d find it really hard to fathom how a secured city thats kept 150,000 people safe can lose it all from one zombie no matter how special it may be or relaxed the guards are....they would perk up real quick...unless that zombie was able to somehow sneak in or wasnt recognized as a zombie.
Nah, i think this is classic cliffhanger story telling in action, and there is some other story with whats happened to Griggs.

[Drannix99]

This is my first Forum post so here we go.

This last episode was crazy tense. I sat through most of the episode half expecting LO#2 to rise from the autopsy table and attack. That being said...we are drawing close to the end of the season and we have three locations that need to be unified and/or connected in some sort of way before season's end. Because we are learning so much about the numbered ones and interest in them is growing among the characters... I believe that the colony will remain intact to an extent, because we have to return to LA eventually. We are gonna return to a bolder under attack where we are gonna learn just how fast new numbered ones can be created and spread as well as there capabilities, which I suspect will be . A team being sent to bolder will encounter the LOs. Bolder is gonna crumble with only a hand full of survivors making it out alive.

[LiamKerrington]

I wonder what is involved in the 'turning' process. Specifically the outward appearances as viewed by others. Right now I can think of only a handful of instances where we witness someone turning in real-time.

Tommy
Fernando
The three Blackhawk soldiers.
* Riley gives an account of people turning in Chapter 1 part 2. NOTE: Not everyone turned at the same rate.
* Some of the members of the Mallers' arena convoy turn while they're under attack, but we don't see this happen.


Maybe add "Roman" in brackets; Glenn reported Roman being attacked by a little one and recognized him later as having become a little one.


Does anyone remember an instance or description of someone turning via bite before Fernando? How did Tommy's sister, Sally? Susie? Turn?

We know you can turn from bites, blood exchange, and something from ground zero. What about the 'slow turner?' We don't know if this person was exposed at one point and turned like the others weeks later or was gradually turning throughout the duration. If the latter, then could this person have described the process from a Z's perspective or would this person go through changes like mood swings and not be aware of it. Also, from Riley's account, not everyone sprayed with Z-blood turned right away. Perhaps, not only do different Zs spread the infection through different means but different people catch it in different ways.

What if the Ground Zero vector is airborne? How about the Blackhawk Inkling? Pvt Thomas, Michael, Tanya, Riley and possibly Puck all got a good whiff of Z-Funk when they opened the body bag. This brings me to the odd pissing match between Michael and Carl. Mike's been calmer lately but his combativeness is not out of the ordinary. Carl was the most aggressive as he had shown his aggressiveness to a superior. Riley is on anger-management pills. Tanya may have some sort of immunity. Puck's from NYC so anything he says will seem angry. Pus Carl has had the most exposure.

If there is a problem in Boulder it could have come from the Blackhawk and not Griggs.

:tinfoil:

Interesting.
May have slipped my might: Do we really have a witnessing of human => gets bitten => turns? As I understood it it is just an assumption of most of us that biting leads to infection. From CJ we only know the estimate that something strange might have changed one of her The Other Town dudes; but she was not crystall clear on what exactly happened to him, so it could have been a spar between him and some kind of zombie at ground zero OR the odd anti-biosphere at that location OR both ...
Your differentiation actually supports an early attempt of an explanation that turning depends on the bloodtype; recently there was a mentioning of different kinds of zed-agents leading to zed-mutation.

Besides this I would like to stress the hint that - considering the weak teeth of #2 - Little Ones seem to infect their victims different from what Regulars do. Glenn only spoke of an attack on Roman, and the two the red-shirts at the Chinook Side were just attacked and we don't have a description about how the Little One infected them; basically this is why I thought, Cpt. Long would change within the Chinook, which did not occur.

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

Kinda jumpin the gun dontcha think??? Only thing thats happened is a loss of comms, and were left to think that mayyyybeeee the worst has happened. I,d find it really hard to fathom how a secured city thats kept 150,000 people safe can lose it all from one zombie no matter how special it may be or relaxed the guards are....they would perk up real quick...unless that zombie was able to somehow sneak in or wasnt recognized as a zombie.
Nah, i think this is classic cliffhanger story telling in action, and there is some other story with whats happened to Griggs.

Don't forget: L.A. was downed in less then a day. And in 2009 L.A. was a city with more then 3.5 Million people - not accounting for the folks from the environ coming to L.A. for business and jobs etc. And it was not like the way that after that day there were 3.5 Million zeds roaming the streets of L.A. Also the initial attack started at a rather small area/ location of the town.
1.5 days later all of the continental US was overrun by Zeds ... Back then the US had about 307 Million residents.

Considering the features of a Little One I could imagine that it could wrack havoc in Boulder in no time. Strategy would be simple:
Attack small groups of people, wound and infect as many as possible, jump/ run away, hide a few minutes, attack the next group; in the meantime the number of Little Ones litteraly explodes. Since the military dudes would react directly most of the military force would focus on this attack like what all the police and military personell did in L.A., which means: As soon as the men are downed, the city/ rescue camp of Boulder would b defenseless. And don't forget: there are/ were not that many soldiers around ...

So: Yeah, it is a frightening scheme, but considering what happened so far it is not even unlikely ...

[Witch_Doctor]

May have slipped my might: Do we really have a witnessing of human => gets bitten => turns? As I understood it it is just an assumption of most of us that biting leads to infection.

Yes, Fernando is bitten when he, Victor, Michael, Pegs and Kelly are escaping from the Zs outside of the Colony.



Besides this I would like to stress the hint that - considering the weak teeth of #2 - Little Ones seem to infect their victims different from what Regulars do. Glenn only spoke of an attack on Roman, and the two the red-shirts at the Chinook Side were just attacked and we don't have a description about how the Little One infected them; basically this is why I thought, Cpt. Long would change within the Chinook, which did not occur.


I agree. Think about all of the decomposition gases fermenting inside Inkling #2. (What a shitty name for a zombie, Inkling #2) They open the bag, and everybody gets a whiff. Later, in the O.R. Riley can't take the smell but Tanya barely notices. Everyone coughs at some point, EXCEPT Tanya. I'd hate to have surgery in that O.R. after the autopsy. In Beyond our Boarders, Carl says that turned blood was compared to normal blood but no differences were found. Gases are beginning to sound like a vector, too.

What about James of Sean, Hope and James fame? Depending on when Kalani landed in L.A., James could have been the slow turner mentioned by her. It's been repeated a number of times that he died of some sort infection.

[lr42186]

My immediate thought during the autopsy when Tanya started mentioning how undeveloped #2 was, was the idea that Ink was using little kids for his experiments. Which, in hindsight, fits with the original idea of them starting out as Little Ones... So, then could their explosion into Inklings be considered a sort of chemical/Ink-induced zombie puberty?

[Witch_Doctor]

INKLINGs

[clem131]

Kc spoke about this earlier in the thread. He didn't read the report because it had just arrived with the body from CO. It wasn't explained well.

Probably this is what Michael should have said, then. "What? It just arrived, was I supposed to read it during the memorial service?!"

[clem131]

I thought we agreed we'd call them Inklings. What's with all this ALDO crap? It sounds like dog food!! :p

No way, the first thing Inklings brings to mind is JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis and their pals. I just can't think of this tall monsters with long nails while my mind recalls images of middle aged british gentlemen smoking a pipe in a pub. :D

[clem131]

Considering the features of a Little One I could imagine that it could wrack havoc in Boulder in no time. Strategy would be simple:
Attack small groups of people, wound and infect as many as possible, jump/ run away, hide a few minutes, attack the next group; in the meantime the number of Little Ones litteraly explodes. Since the military dudes would react directly most of the military force would focus on this attack like what all the police and military personell did in L.A., which means: As soon as the men are downed, the city/ rescue camp of Boulder would b defenseless. And don't forget: there are/ were not that many soldiers around ...

So: Yeah, it is a frightening scheme, but considering what happened so far it is not even unlikely ...

Definitely not. I find it strange though that nobody was near a radio and able to call back to Irwin. Maybe we are imagining this differently from the way it is, but I would assume there would be some guard posts around the city connected with a main post somewhere, and at least a radio for each post + multiple long range ones to communicate with Boulder, + satphones.

[Privateer]

As far as Communications go, everything /could/ be down. Or the blizzard could have prohibited them from getting the distress call out...

I have to comment on the gasses causing Zedism. I think it /is/ kinda silly. That was a big chunk of the main cast that got hit, and we haven't noticed Victor turning because of the gas, or Riley or Angel turning because they were in a big pile of bodies. As for Tanya not being effected... She's a doctor! She's experienced with blood guts and Unpleasant smells, even if its just animals. That being said, Checkov's corpse. Michael didn't /have/ to open up the bag for story purposes... So maybe its not such a crazy thing after all. :P

[Privateer]

Someone mentioned the Navy and where was it during all this. I imagine a sub could be roaming around, but most ships are fuel guzzling chunks of several hundred people, that need to be supplied regularly. At some point, most of them would call at a port, (possibly even all returning lost haste to deal with the National Emergency) and them get eaten. Even if they were around, Irwin may not have the communications ability to communicate with a boomer in the middle of the Atlantic, but its not a horrible stretch to see how the Navy might be out of the picture.

The real question is how the virus spread across the world. Britain and Western Europe should have had plenty of time to divert all resources to securing borders and effecting a draconian quarentine, right?

[Robzombie]

There would have to be physical barriers around boulder, its what made it safe in the first place. Not around the whole city necesarily but around whatever part they secured and is holding that population. I very much doubt that any z's could just wander in and I'm sure sneaking in would be difficult as well. I wouldn't doubt if there are several other electronic and physical means of monitoring and securing the area, such as cameras, trip wires, claymores, sensors etc etc...I don't think anything can easily get in no matter how lax the guards might be. Redundancies should be in place to not allow any one person or action to make it exposed. No way Boulder goes down unless multiple people f up huge.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,


Definitely not. I find it strange though that nobody was near a radio and able to call back to Irwin. Maybe we are imagining this differently from the way it is, but I would assume there would be some guard posts around the city connected with a main post somewhere, and at least a radio for each post + multiple long range ones to communicate with Boulder, + satphones.

I just pictured what _could have_ happened to Boulder - especially as a response to what Robzombie mentioned; I don't say that this _has_ happened in that way. I just want to stress the little fact, actually, that Little Ones act a lot more strategic, commando-style, cautious and a lot more effective then regulars - and it were mainly regulars that nearly obliterated L.A. of life in less then a day. Therefore I don't see it as unlikely that even a single Little One could actually push Boulder over the edge.

That aside: I am with you regarding the communication thing. As soon as there would be an attack, the local military would a) try to deal with it and probably b) report it to mission HQ (Fort Irwin), unless they mistake the attack is just another regular attack. Actually we don't know the regular work-around for any incident, if each one needs to be immediately reported to Fort Irwin or if there is some kind of schedule ... In the latter case: Imagine an attack on Boulder and a little One directly aiming at the main power facility ... We don't know the infrastructure of Boulder; but if all the Boulder power or at least all the power for communications is 'centralized', well make up your mind what would happen if THAT one is taken down.

And about the weather/ storm being the source of interrupted com-links ... Well ... Red herring or something like that ... ?

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

No way Boulder goes down unless multiple people f up huge.

What else is there to say ... ?

[Leedo2502]

I was hoping to see Puck and Michael exchange the "Shit just got real" thing...

http://i.imgur.com/eSX5q.gif

[clem131]

Hi there,
I just pictured what _could have_ happened to Boulder - especially as a response to what Robzombie mentioned; I don't say that this _has_ happened in that way. I just want to stress the little fact, actually, that Little Ones act a lot more strategic, commando-style, cautious and a lot more effective then regulars - and it were mainly regulars that nearly obliterated L.A. of life in less then a day. Therefore I don't see it as unlikely that even a single Little One could actually push Boulder over the edge.


I agree. You said "not unlikely" and I answered "definitely not (unlikely)" but I did not realize it sounded ambiguous until I read it now, sorry.

[Robzombie]

What else is there to say ... ?

I hear ya...it's deffinately not impossible that Boulder gets messed up. And ya I do see the Little Ones being smarter than your average bear, but I don't think it is on par with Ink. I see them more as a pure warrior killer machine type based more on instinct as opposed to an intelligence, such as Ink's, that I think would be necesary to do Boulder real harm.

Da-da-daaaaa! Are we going to see Ink again real soon?

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,


Da-da-daaaaa! Are we going to see Ink again real soon?

Mh ... maybe, but that would add some more levels of confusion to the whole story, which already is packed with nearly enough ... Also having Ink in Boulder right now would render the complete The Colony stuff kind of ... well ..., don't get me wrong, but kind of "pointless" ...
So no. We won't see Ink soon - at least not in Boulder. Here I would just say:

Little One #2 happened to grab on the Chinook. After hours of ambracing the awesome flying experience it decided to go for some more killing. And killing it did, but killed it got, too. But it created offspring (Griggs), which is on its personal rampage. Griggs as Little One is an autonomous killing-machine, a kind of "universal zombie-soldier" without any agenda or control, especially not from Ink, because there is no connection between the both of them. And Griggs might have come to Boulder. Here anything could happen - something between "just a small 'kill the zombie' plus bad weather-condition and therefore no com-link to Fort Irwin" on the one side and on the other "Boulder goes L.A. 8th of May 2009 starting all with but one Little One (Griggs), thus full catastrophee 'Aliens*-style' (*Aliens, the second Alien movie) " ...

My personal estimate: Something between, Boulder is hit by Griggs and some things gone out of control, but it won't go down, 'cause Datu zu ressourceful and his mind-boggling three Angels "Hope, Kelly and Pegs" have stopped the Boulder-apocalypse right in time, and if not them, then the soldiers of Boulder did the right thing at the right time. (Wouldn't be the first time that I could be wrong ...)

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there.

Something to chew on:
Michael says: Why didn't you tell me? And Carl responds: I told you ... !

In Episode #33-2 Carl and Michael communicate via sat-phone, while Carl is at the Chinook crash side. After having dealt with the Little Ones they connect. Michael says: "Carl, fill me in. What's the situation." The scene is at the crashside.
Then we have an interruption and a change of perspective. Now we are in Fort Irwin, and the first line of Michael is: "And you're sure the other ones are dead?"

So both spoke about something that happened at the Chinook crash side, which is not 'viewed' in episode #33-2. But what exactly did they talk about? The line "And you'resure the other ones are dead?" actually hints at Michael knowing about the ones being infected by Little One #2.
And then in #33-3 Michael complains about Carl not having said everything, while Carl goes all defensive and tells Michael that he did mention things around soldiers being infected and turning like crazy 'right after' he told Michael about 'the black number' ...

Well, the story is kind of ambiguos here. I just wonder what information Carl really provided and what might have slipped Michael's attention or why Michael "dismissed" these information already seeing the vital nature of these facts (Little One, infected and now dead soldiers, 30mi from Boulder, Griggs missing).

It kind of strikes me as odd that Michael seems to be involved in quite some funny moments in this whole WA-zeeh-pocalypse - the pumpstation, Randy, unintentionally(?) playing an important role in The Colony going down (first the death of Marcus, then the Mallers showing up), falling (too?) easily for the trap of the Mallers right before The Tower goes down, now this which might be Boulder going down as the worst scenario to think of ...

Am just toying with thoughts. What do you think about all of this???

All the best!
Liam

[Robzombie]

Da-da-daaaaa! Are we going to see Ink again real soon?

That was kinda tongue in cheek...I think Ink is still working on his army, maybe on the move...this is what if anything I think will be the real threat to Fort Irwin. Not so much Boulder as a lot of those Z's are gonna freeze if they go through the mountains.

[Hoff4D]

Don't forget: L.A. was downed in less then a day. And in 2009 L.A. was a city with more then 3.5 Million people - not accounting for the folks from the environ coming to L.A. for business and jobs etc. And it was not like the way that after that day there were 3.5 Million zeds roaming the streets of L.A. Also the initial attack started at a rather small area/ location of the town.
1.5 days later all of the continental US was overrun by Zeds ... Back then the US had about 307 Million residents.

Considering the features of a Little One I could imagine that it could wrack havoc in Boulder in no time. Strategy would be simple:
Attack small groups of people, wound and infect as many as possible, jump/ run away, hide a few minutes, attack the next group; in the meantime the number of Little Ones litteraly explodes. Since the military dudes would react directly most of the military force would focus on this attack like what all the police and military personell did in L.A., which means: As soon as the men are downed, the city/ rescue camp of Boulder would b defenseless. And don't forget: there are/ were not that many soldiers around ...

So: Yeah, it is a frightening scheme, but considering what happened so far it is not even unlikely ...

There's a big difference in LA vs boulder though....LA had no expectations of a plausible attack, while Boulder is on guard for this exact situation, regardless of how lax they've become, they have a reaction protocol I'm sure. Also, LA was hit with a Haze that presumably mass-infected thousands, while Boulder would be hit with theoretical 'patient zero'.....Although the Inklings turn people VERY fast, so that is something that helps the speed of breakout, but I still think Boulder having pre-existing expectations weighs the scale in their favor

[Hoff4D]

Screw that Lizzy chick. INKLINGS FTW! ;)

Inklings x2


Lizzie's pregnant, so she's not thinking rationally, had she seen the growth of the little ones, surely she'd call them Inklings.

That said, someone called out the ADLO being created by Inklings, and Inklings being created by Ink (aka having tattoos), and that was the naming convention I subscribed too.

[Hoff4D]

I'm mostly on board saying that Boulder is still up and running, just radio silenced due to some other issue besides Inkling/ADLO attack. However, I'd like to throw another crazed thought in the process

We're all sure the Inklings are cold-resistant, and as far as everyone knows, the inklings held on for 1,000 miles before attacking. Kc even confirmed that it did not attack until the 1,000 mile mark, HOWEVER, he never confirmed the Inkling was certainly hanging on....Spec. Robbins says these birds have trouble in the weather all the time, and others expressed concern over their fuel capacity....I wonder if maybe the Inkling merely TRACKED the Chinook, and the Chinook had mechanical problems/fuel problems and had to land. Even Robbins says the crash is not that bad, and most people would walk away. If a monster kicks the wall in, in mid-flight, I assume it to be a crash landing of epic proportion. However, If you have mechanical failure and go down relatively slowly, you may have a crash site like described of the Chinooks.

Perhaps the bird went down, the crew remained inside, dazed from the landing trying to assess what to do, not going out into the cold because...well...its cold. a few hours later (or minutes, who knows) #2 finish his tracking and "HERE'S JOHNNY"s the side of the chinook like Nicholson could never do. Perhaps in this instance Griggs makes a run for it, dropping his restraints (released as the attack onsets because everyone deserves a chance at escape). #2 (and possibly his crew) take down the Chinook crew as griggs escapes, a few of #2's crew chases him through the mountains (making his trip take 14 days to get to Boulder) and #2 hangs around because she's crazy smart and knows a search party will come.

In this instance its still possible Griggs turns, and its possible he fends them off....if he fends them off, he arrives in boulder and lights are out due to storm, if he turns, he shows up with a crew of zeds that turned him and are in on the feast.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

I hear you, Hoff4D. You are absolutely right: The main difference is that L.A. was hit while the city was unprepared, and Boulder could have been hit being at at least yellow to orange alert-condition all the time ...

Still some 'buts' to add ...

- yeah, maybe the Boulder soldiers are kind of lax; and with Robbin and Carl and the blackhawk-pilot some more sense might have returned to Boulder straightening forces a bit - that is IF they have spoken about their experiences at the Chinook crash side;
- we have no information about how Boulder is secured, only that it IS secured; and if it is secured for the regulars to show up, would the same level of protection work against Little Ones just as well?
- Little Ones are cunning - simple straight forward -, which does not apply for regulars so far; Little Ones evaluate the situation, try to take the most advantageous position in order to attack and seem to adapt to the given situation;
- Little One #2 took down a Chinook in flight, messed up the complete Chinook crew (of which some were down in Zombieland L.A. for a week) and also dished out some heavy damage to Robbin's blackhawk-unit - all soldiers that are acknowledged to be experienced, skilled, and seasoned combatants; according to what Puck says (as I understand him) this does not apply naturally for the average Boulder soldier ...

That is why I am so hesitant to accept the Little One as being just a small threat for Boulderites or Boulder even or especially now ...

All the best!
Liam

[Hoff4D]

Hi there,

I hear you, Hoff4D. You are absolutely right: The main difference is that L.A. was hit while the city was unprepared, and Boulder could have been hit being at at least yellow to orange alert-condition all the time ...

Still some 'buts' to add ...

- yeah, maybe the Boulder soldiers are kind of lax; and with Robbin and Carl and the blackhawk-pilot some more sense might have returned to Boulder straightening forces a bit - that is IF they have spoken about their experiences at the Chinook crash side;
- we have no information about how Boulder is secured, only that it IS secured; and if it is secured for the regulars to show up, would the same level of protection work against Little Ones just as well?
- Little Ones are cunning - simple straight forward -, which does not apply for regulars so far; Little Ones evaluate the situation, try to take the most advantageous position in order to attack and seem to adapt to the given situation;
- Little One #2 took down a Chinook in flight, messed up the complete Chinook crew (of which some were down in Zombieland L.A. for a week) and also dished out some heavy damage to Robbin's blackhawk-unit - all soldiers that are acknowledged to be experienced, skilled, and seasoned combatants; according to what Puck says (as I understand him) this does not apply naturally for the average Boulder soldier ...

That is why I am so hesitant to accept the Little One as being just a small threat for Boulderites or Boulder even or especially now ...

All the best!
Liam


Agreed 100%, I think one ADLO COULD end Boulder, but I do not believe it would end it inside of 2 hours, in a manner that prevented even ONE distress call. That's all I'm saying.

[LiamKerrington]

In what time a Chinook flies 1.000 miles? Could a Little One be moving as fast on the ground in order to track the Chinook down?
Sticking with your idea I picture a more dreadful scene: The chinook had to do an emergency landing, and it landed right on top of the Little One. And since Little Ones seem to be around in small numbers (like two or three), what would this mean so close to Boulder??? Red Winter becomes a new understanding ... Then it would not be Griggs alone anymore ...

But I don't stick with this mad idea ... ;) I return to what I assume to be more likely:
While #2 was on the Chinook it started to demolish the chopper after nearly 1.000 miles up in the air. Damaging the Chinook it got into a similar situation as what Pegs had when she had to make an emergency landing next to the farm ... Remember that one? A more skilled pilot might have done something similar while the Little One tried to enter the chopper from the outside ...

[LiamKerrington]

Agreed 100%, I think one ADLO COULD end Boulder, but I do not believe it would end it inside of 2 hours, in a manner that prevented even ONE distress call. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah. The lack of the distress call is the most disturbing part in this whole picture ... I bet the answer/ solution is so simple that all of us look at it and don't recognize it ...

[Penguine]

Doubt the inkling was tracking the Chinook on the ground. A Chinook has a top speed of 170 knots (196 mph). That means it cleared 1,000 miles in just over 5hrs. I highly doubt an Inkling is traveling 196+ mph on the ground. Also, the ground is not flat, there are hills, mountains, lakes, rivers, forrest, etc, etc, that the Inkling would have to deal with while running/tracking the Chinook. With that said, the Inkling was hanging on to the Chinook. When it ripped in to the Chinook it probably diabled critical systems causeing a controlled crash.

[Hoff4D]

In what time a Chinook flies 1.000 miles? Could a Little One be moving as fast on the ground in order to track the Chinook down?
Sticking with your idea I picture a more dreadful scene: The chinook had to do an emergency landing, and it landed right on top of the Little One. And since Little Ones seem to be around in small numbers (like two or three), what would this mean so close to Boulder??? Red Winter becomes a new understanding ... Then it would not be Griggs alone anymore ...

But I don't stick with this mad idea ... ;) I return to what I assume to be more likely:
While #2 was on the Chinook it started to demolish the chopper after nearly 1.000 miles up in the air. Damaging the Chinook it got into a similar situation as what Pegs had when she had to make an emergency landing next to the farm ... Remember that one? A more skilled pilot might have done something similar while the Little One tried to enter the chopper from the outside ...


Little ones are fast, and from our autopsy, have quite high endurance...I dont think they'd keep pace with the chinook, but if it went down, and they headed that direction, whose to say they weren't a mere few hours behind the crash time, and thus only a short period of time before the blackhawk arrived, explaining why the 2 were JUST outside the chinook when the blackhawk arrived...

Just throwing other ideas out there

Also, I think you're right, there is some simple thing we're overlooking.....but in the meantime CRACKPOT THEORIES AWAY!

[Hoff4D]

Doubt the inkling was tracking the Chinook on the ground. A Chinook has a top speed of 170 knots (196 mph). That means it cleared 1,000 miles in just over 5hrs. I highly doubt an Inkling is traveling 196+ mph on the ground. Also, the ground is not flat, there are hills, mountains, lakes, rivers, forrest, etc, etc, that the Inkling would have to deal with while running/tracking the Chinook. With that said, the Inkling was hanging on to the Chinook. When it ripped in to the Chinook it probably diabled critical systems causeing a controlled crash.

if it disabled critical systems, wouldnt it be an UNcontrolled crash?

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there!


CRACKPOT THEORIES AWAY!

Just as an aside ... On Monday I really had some trouble thinking about #33-3 and chapter #33 at all. Looking at 14 pages of forum-discussions about #33-3 without pages of gunnery-theories like with #33-2 is just outfuckingstanding. :D There is more to #33-3 then meets the eye. But what is it? An Autobot or a Decepticon? ...


if it disabled critical systems, wouldnt it be an UNcontrolled crash?

I think it depends on how you define "critical" ... Wasn't the hydraulic-issue on Pegs's bird a critical system as well?

All the best!
Liam

[Hoff4D]

Hi there!



Just as an aside ... On Monday I really had some trouble thinking about #33-3 and chapter #33 at all. Looking at 14 pages of forum-discussions about #33-3 without pages of gunnery-theories like with #33-2 is just outfuckingstanding. :D There is more to #33-3 then meets the eye. But what is it? An Autobot or a Decepticon? ...



I think it depends on how you define "critical" ... Wasn't the hydraulic-issue on Pegs's bird a critical system as well?

All the best!
Liam

Deceptinkon.

[IamPaul]

My immediate thought during the autopsy when Tanya started mentioning how undeveloped #2 was, was the idea that Ink was using little kids for his experiments. Which, in hindsight, fits with the original idea of them starting out as Little Ones... So, then could their explosion into Inklings be considered a sort of chemical/Ink-induced zombie puberty?


My thoughts exactly!

[Witch_Doctor]

Could Boulder be over-run quickly?

From what we do know of Inklings and other zombies: They would have to overcome obstacles of getting there, getting in, attacking and spreading Zombie Cooties. It is reasonable that there would still be enough time for the Boulderers to get out a distress call.

From what I can speculate: Inkling #2's decomposition gas spread the Zombie Cooties through the air, or some kind of contaminants spread from the ice used to keep the body cold or any of a number of ways a cross contamination could occur. Those infected change slowly as the infection spreads. Many people start turning at what seems to be all at once. :tinfoil:

Did Michael know or not know about the turned soldiers?

We can hear the he learns that the soldiers are turned but he may have assumed that they turned into regular biter, Not any of the special kinds.

Only Inking #2 seems to be a real baddass. The others took effort to kill but small teams in LA did the job.


Inklings! Like Earthlings. Plus it's funny! Makes me go he he he inside when I read it.
ADLO. ADvanced Little Ones Still has little one in it. They're not little anymore. Sounds like kindergarteners taking calculus. Or a command in Assembly Language.

[LiamKerrington]

Deceptinkon.

+1

[LiamKerrington]

About Zombie-gases fumigating from Inklings ... Not sure about it. I'd stay closer to the idea that Little Ones wound their prey with their fingernails and then either infect it with some stuff under the fingernails or with slime (bile, spittle) by licking, 'biting', spitting the wounded at the wounding ...

Just as an aside: We wondered why Little Ones have self-inflicted scratches: maybe it is just a natural reaction of Little Ones to scratch themselves when their skin is stretched (stretch marks) due to mutating effects, 'cause stretching skin might cause itching everywhere ... This would not answer, though, why Regulars have showed self-inflicted wounds as well ... Another idea could be: self-inflicting by accidentally reacting unctrolled to the infection:


http://youtu.be/Ma8l5udOlvc

All the best!
Liam

[Tielurrdee]

Yeah, Saul says because Lizzie named them that, they're still called Little Ones even though they ain't so little....personally I'm sticking with that. It reminds us of what they once were.

Correction of your correction, unless someone beat me to it lizzy says that these must be the ones angel saw at the base he called them little ones. Something like that I can't quote it word for word. Which is what skittles called them he said word for word "I think I'll call them little ones". That is all.

[Witch_Doctor]

Correction of your correction, unless someone beat me to it lizzy says that these must be the ones angel saw at the base he called them little ones. Something like that I can't quote it word for word. Which is what skittles called them he said word for word "I think I'll call them little ones". That is all.


Lizzie said it, sticking to it.
Skittles said it, beat Lizzie to it.
'Name doesn't work', says Victor, screw it.
I'm calling them Inklings, now everybody do it.

[UndeadSweeper]

Could Boulder be over-run quickly?

From what we do know of Inklings and other zombies: They would have to overcome obstacles of getting there, getting in, attacking and spreading Zombie Cooties. It is reasonable that there would still be enough time for the Boulderers to get out a distress call.

From what I can speculate: Inkling #2's decomposition gas spread the Zombie Cooties through the air, or some kind of contaminants spread from the ice used to keep the body cold or any of a number of ways a cross contamination could occur. Those infected change slowly as the infection spreads. Many people start turning at what seems to be all at once. :tinfoil:

Did Michael know or not know about the turned soldiers?

We can hear the he learns that the soldiers are turned but he may have assumed that they turned into regular biter, Not any of the special kinds.

Only Inking #2 seems to be a real baddass. The others took effort to kill but small teams in LA did the job.


Inklings! Like Earthlings. Plus it's funny! Makes me go he he he inside when I read it.
ADLO. ADvanced Little Ones Still has little one in it. They're not little anymore. Sounds like kindergarteners taking calculus. Or a command in Assembly Language.

I want to stick to ADLO :hsugh:

Beside Inkling, is a real word.

n inkling [ˈiŋkliŋ]
a slight idea or suspicion (about something that is happening)

[Tielurrdee]

Lizzie said it, sticking to it.
Skittles said it, beat Lizzie to it.
'Name doesn't work', says Victor, screw it.
I'm calling them Inklings, now everybody do it.
Dang it fine I'll add another name to the list then. Saul referred to them as pale crack addict zombies. So I will call the PCAZ

[Witch_Doctor]

Dang it fine I'll add another name to the list then. Saul referred to them as pale crack addict zombies. So I will call the PCAZ

Hey, I like that.

[LiamKerrington]

:meh:

[Witch_Doctor]

I think it's safe to say we all know what is being said by either term. We get along fine with Ink, Bill Roberts, The one with the Markings, TOWTM, Pimp Zombie, Pinstripes, It's Paul, and Freaky Fucker in a Suit.

Just saying...

[Kc]

I'm calling them Inklings, now everybody do it.

ink·ling/ˈiNGkliNG/
|-
| valign="top" width="80px" style="padding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px; color: #666" | Noun:
| valign="top" style="padding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px" |
|-
| A slight knowledge or suspicion; a hint.
|-


|-
| colspan="2" |
|-
| valign="top" width="80px" style="padding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px; color: #666" | Synonyms:
| valign="top" style="padding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px" | hint - intimation - suspicion - allusion

|-



----------------------
My official response:

Go for it. I most likely won't use it in the story, but to make things clearer/easier on the forum, I officially support it. You can create the Wiki page if you like ;)

[Adventureless_Hero]

Fuck it. I say someone needs to Urban Dictionary it.


Someone else...not me. I'm lazy.

[Witch_Doctor]

ink·ling/ˈiNGkliNG/
|-
| valign="top" width="80px" style="padding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px; color: #666" | Noun:
| valign="top" style="padding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px" |
|-
| A slight knowledge or suspicion; a hint.
|-


|-
| colspan="2" |
|-
| valign="top" width="80px" style="padding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px; color: #666" | Synonyms:
| valign="top" style="padding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px" | hint - intimation - suspicion - allusion

|-



----------------------
My official response:

Go for it. I most likely won't use it in the story, but to make things clearer/easier on the forum, I officially support it. You can create the Wiki page if you like ;)

OMG OMG OMG!!!!!:omgomg::excited::omgomg:

[Ginja]

Is it just me or does anyone else have the suspicion that Boulder doesn't really exist. Almost as soon as the group got redirected there I started to think that. They aren't actually safe in Boulder. It could for all we know be the breeding/feeding ground for all of the zombies. I think the people that are in the communications towers are isolated and don't really know that they aren't in a community of over 150k people. OR the people shifted there could be slaves/workers or just zombie food. Something about the whole Boulder thing just never rang true for me. There was also a clue that I dismissed as a red herring that I now can't remember exactly but it had something to do with the military insignia of the fort and the zombies being connected.

Just my thoughts and btw HI I'm a fan :)

[Bonnonon]

Is it just me or does anyone else have the suspicion that Boulder doesn't really exist. Almost as soon as the group got redirected there I started to think that. They aren't actually safe in Boulder. It could for all we know be the breeding/feeding ground for all of the zombies. I think the people that are in the communications towers are isolated and don't really know that they aren't in a community of over 150k people. OR the people shifted there could be slaves/workers or just zombie food. Something about the whole Boulder thing just never rang true for me. There was also a clue that I dismissed as a red herring that I now can't remember exactly but it had something to do with the military insignia of the fort and the zombies being connected.

Just my thoughts and btw HI I'm a fan :)

As cool as that would be I suspect if is more to do with story telling issues that we never "go" to Boulder.

P.S I would love to see a picture of how you made the sounds for the episode KC. If Robert gets a chance it would be cool to see. Video feature?

[Hoff4D]

OMG OMG OMG!!!!!:omgomg::excited::omgomg:

Kc should've said "I support it on the forums....if you write a haiku as well"

Anyways, I thnik the given definition there furthers the awesome to name....it works on all levels. The inklings have a slight bit of knowledge and I'm damn suspicious of them....

[Hoff4D]

I want to stick to ADLO :hsugh:

Beside Inkling, is a real word.

n inkling [ˈiŋkliŋ]
a slight idea or suspicion (about something that is happening)

And "little" and "ones" are not real words?

sorry, just being an ass....couldnt help it

[UndeadSweeper]

And "little" and "ones" are not real words?

sorry, just being an ass....couldnt help it

:squint:

[Penguine]

I have an Inkling that Witch_Doctor really wants to call them ADLO's but just doesn't want to admit it. :zombie:

[ferroaj]

I have an Inkling that Witch_Doctor really wants to call them ADLO's but just doesn't want to admit it. :zombie:

Can't seem to figure out the acronym behind ADLO. What does this mean?

[Adventureless_Hero]

Can't seem to figure out the acronym behind ADLO. What does this mean?

ADvanced Little One

[Adventureless_Hero]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/adventureless_hero/mac-pc-zombie_zps6750d052.jpg

[Witch_Doctor]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/adventureless_hero/mac-pc-zombie_zps6750d052.jpg

Uhma poop my pants, that was so funny.

[UndeadSweeper]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/adventureless_hero/mac-pc-zombie_zps6750d052.jpg

:D That is funny.

[Tar Heel Fan]

I'm wondering if anyone can help me clarify an issue I'm having with the quick-turning of our Inkling ADLO friends (I'm not taking sides on the Little Ones' names). If those infected by these seemingly genetically altered zombies start displaying the same characteristics and traits of the Inklings (i.e. tough skin, pale complexion), how is it that these types have not become the majority within the zombie culture? Or at least how is it that we have not seen more of them? They are heartier, craftier, and seem to spread quicker than other types.

I suppose there have not been as many of them exposed to masses of people (only other zombies), and the cliffhanger in Boulder might be the first setting in which a lone Inkling comes into contact with a mass of humans. It might be setting the stage for an entire city to become super-zombies, like the Inklings.

I also suppose that it's possible that Michael Keaton's Multiplicity theory holds true: "A copy of a copy is not as crisp as the original," and those infected by ADLOs do not see the same quick physical developments. Even still, with the heartiness of such zombies, something is missing for me to explain why we have not seen more of these guys around - you'd think they'd be dominating the zombie culture by now.

Appreciate any thoughts/clarifications on this one, cause it's been gnawing at me.
I've been super busy lately, so I have caught up in one big chunk - forgive me if I'm repeating something that has been covered here. If so, can someone help point me to it?

[Robzombie]

My first take on your question is like ya said...the specials didn't really show up till later, after the majority of humans were killed or turned to regular zombies. There aren't many humans around to become affected by the specials, therefor there aren't many specials.
Regarding Boulder, well with that i guess whatever happens happens but yeah, if a Little One gets in there then i suppose were going to end up with a lot more zombie 2 point 0's (or is it now ver. 3.0?).

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,


... They are heartier, craftier, and seem to spread quicker than other types.

Yes, they are heartier, craftier ... But no, they don't spread quicker than other types. Tommy and Fernando turned within minutes (Tommy) or less then a minute (Fernando) as well; and from different sources we know that infected humans turned quickly as well, which supports the and also is supported by the simple fact how fast L.A. and later the US was overrun by Zeds.


I suppose there have not been as many of them exposed to masses of people (only other zombies), and the cliffhanger in Boulder might be the first setting in which a lone Inkling comes into contact with a mass of humans.

As Robzombie says: The first Little One's were encountered by Skittles, Kalani and Angel at the military base in L.A; that was by the end of July in the WA-timeline. At that point in time the number of survivors in L.A. was less then half a thousand if we consider The Tower, The Mall, and The Colony as the only places with humans being alive and Skittles as well as CJ surviving solo on their own. When it all started on May 8th the city of L.A. was obliterated of life within less then a day - with Regulars/ standard biters/ zombies. The very first 'special' zombie we know of were the Runners encountered by Lizzy, Saul and Burt; then the Behemoth troubled Riley, Angel, Datu and Michael; later Ink showed up after having killed Paul, and then the next special one was the Jumper that knocked down Saul. It was after all these special ones that the Little Ones showed up the first time. And if we stick with the most solid theory so far that the first at least 12 Little Ones were infants and young children from the hospital, then it makes perfect sense that they were simply too late at the party to become a real threat so far, i.e. they were too late to spread their type of zomby-agent, because there was nearly no one available to be infected anymore.

That is why I agree with you: We probably to most likely have our first Little One at its feast; considering its cunning on the one side and on the other side the lack of intel on the Little Ones within the standard military forces in Boulder so far, Boulder might have some serious shit to deal with.


It might be setting the stage for an entire city to become super-zombies, like the Inklings.

Would be time for the Toxic Avenger to show up, I assume ...


I also suppose that it's possible that Michael Keaton's Multiplicity theory holds true: "A copy of a copy is not as crisp as the original," and those infected by ADLOs do not see the same quick physical developments. ...
Appreciate any thoughts/clarifications on this one, cause it's been gnawing at me.

Mh. Not sure, if MK's Multiplicity Theory really applies. Do you remember Glen mentioning how Roman changed over night? This implies that the process from human => infection => Little One does not stop at the level of Little One, but it goes on. And here the mystery is on ...
Angel and Kalani found some slime; where was it when Saul and Victor checked the dead Little One in L.A. or killed the other Little One at the elementary; where was it when Tanya made her autopsy?
Skittles highlighted the funny way of walking of the Little Ones, and he together with Kalani and Angel recognized the small size of the Little Ones at the base; and later the beasts were so huge wherever you encountered them.
Briggs was able to rip off an arm of a Little One; I am pretty sure he wouldn't have been able to do so, if the skin and muscles and bone-structure of it was as tough as the ones Robbins and Carl found at the Chinook Crash side and really had trouble to bring down.
Considering this amount of information and the changes within the various 'qualities' I would say: Actually the Little Ones prove to be quite the opposite of what MK's theory says ... Because the farther we go in time, the more resilient, potent and dangerous these beasts become.

All the best!
Liam

[UndeadSweeper]

Question?

We still haven't answered where this started nor how. But we thinking Ink maybe involved at the core, yet he won't to be to mod the zombies this much on his own. He needs help. What if the smart doctor zombie can retain the memory of their pre-zombie self? That would explain how advancement were made so quickly in a short time span. Think about it, the missing soldier is head directly to to Boulder. How would he be able to do that without maintain his memories?

[lr42186]

I just had another thought on the origins of the Little Ones/ADLOs/Inklings... Could they be kids from the mental hospital, i.e the spark of insanity is what makes them dementedly clever as zombies? Unsure about this, since I can't remember if the hospital = the mental hospital Ink was transferred to.

[Robzombie]

Okay, no ones been saying anything for a few hours now so lets stir some shit up here....how about..........How, if at all possible might Ink be related to any of or be part of any of our known "family" members?? Come on people where does this bad ass mo- fo sit within the grand scheme of things with the players we all know and love/hate, or is he totally a seperate thing from all of that??

Keep it real, no supernatural bs, because reality or as close to reality has been a big thing about WA.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

Well, considering his backstory: convicted of multiple homicide, schicophrenic, tattoo-monster ... And when it all started he was brought to a "mental health facility".

@lr42186: We know from the "Devil's Workshop" that ths huge hospital in L.A. has a department for mental things. But would this have been sufficient for a madman like Bill Roberts? And would it have had the right 'infrastructure' for conivcted madmen as well - like half prison, half mental facility? Hard to tell. Since he knows the place, it seems to be the case, actually, that he was transferred to that place.

Still: Hard to tell.

@Robzombie: Was "Bill Roberts" part of "The Family"? Really hard to tell. Since he killed people in his human life, it could have been the case that he might have been a contract-killer/ killer from "The Family". But would the family have deployed madmen as well for such tasks, which might be too much of a security issue, a cannonball gone loose or something? I am not so sure what concept is behind "The Family"; but comparing it with Mafia or Yakuza I would say: These groups are highly organized and structured, obey to many rules and keep true to some kind of "honor-scheme". That is why I would say: Bill Roberts/ Ink is not related to "The Family" - in no way. He is on his own. And yet: Scratch could prove me wrong. (I still like the idea that she will become a Zed (probably a Little One), and then she and Ink will be more devastating then all nukes combined ...)

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

Ok. Then I understood or misunderstood "reached" as "having an outbreak" as well ... And in #29 Col. Kimmet describes the situation as this: "Boulder and Fort Wirin are the only safe zones in the continental US. ... We lost contact with everyone on the East Coast about a week after the West was hit. ... it multiplied and spread within one and a half days ... we know a few hotspots along the coast line ... we think of two in the Bay area ... "

So, yeah: I was wrong with naming Chicago and New York; I just anticipated as much ...

Well, but anyway: for me it is hard to believe, that the West Coast (which has several hotspots - San Diego, L.A., Oregon, Seattle) is quarantined from the rest of the US ... I may be wrong, but who actually cares ... ;)

No, I was not wrong with mentioning Chicago and New York. In chapter #2 the news explicitely mention riots in New York and Chicago as well as Houston and Detroid and San Diego ...

All the best!
Liam

[Cabbage Patch]

Okay, no ones been saying anything for a few hours now so lets stir some shit up here....how about..........How, if at all possible might Ink be related to any of or be part of any of our known "family" members?? Come on people where does this bad ass mo- fo sit within the grand scheme of things with the players we all know and love/hate, or is he totally a seperate thing from all of that??

Keep it real, no supernatural bs, because reality or as close to reality has been a big thing about WA.

I think Ink started out as a Luchidore Wrestler in Mexico. We'll discover that Victor is a former Luchidore as well, and he was Ink's nemesis. The story will end with a death match between the two.

[lr42186]

And yet: Scratch could prove me wrong. (I still like the idea that she will become a Zed (probably a Little One), and then she and Ink will be more devastating then all nukes combined ...)


Sudden thought: If Ink turns out to be a part of The Family... What if HE's the cousin who raped Scratch? Then, if she does turn into a super-Zed, or even if she doesn't... epic fight to the death?

[LiamKerrington]

Sudden thought: If Ink turns out to be a part of The Family... What if HE's the cousin who raped Scratch? Then, if she does turn into a super-Zed, or even if she doesn't... epic fight to the death?

+1

As you say - two words: "EPIC!"

[skygod1126]

I feel that the colonel knows more about the new zombies they are encountering. Hell, he might even have knowledge on how this whole mess even started.

[2bgood]

For all of you who say Denver could not go down in 2hrs, remember the world went down in 2 days and this is a nastier zombie who infects other much faster.

For fun I set up a spread sheet that tracks how fast Denver could go down. I assumed one Inkling could kill 2 people and infect 2 people in populated area in 5 minutes. Result: every one gone in under 1.5 hours. Happy to run other numbers for you, but here is the result of the 2 + 2 in 5min assumption.



2166

[Vlarken]

Well, it seems to me that they haven't been around long enough for them to begin to dominate the zombie culture. The Little Ones only started appearing towards the end of the second season. Before that, I don't think they even existed, assuming that they're experiments conducted by Ink. In this season, people who are still in LA have encountered them a lot, which means that, yes, they are becoming the dominant type of biter. So before, they weren't around, and now that they are, they are becoming the dominant type, and it's being displayed in the show accordingly. At least, in my opinion.

[Witch_Doctor]

....As Robzombie says: The first Little One's were encountered by Skittles, Kalani and Angel at the military base in L.A; that was by the end of July in the WA-timeline. At that point in time the number of survivors in L.A. was less then half a thousand if we consider The Tower, The Mall, and The Colony as the only places with humans being alive and Skittles as well as CJ surviving solo on their own. When it all started on May 8th the city of L.A. was obliterated of life within less then a day - with Regulars/ standard biters/ zombies. The very first 'special' zombie we know of were the Runners encountered by Lizzy, Saul and Burt; then the Behemoth troubled Riley, Angel, Datu and Michael; later Ink showed up after having killed Paul, and then the next special one was the Jumper that knocked down Saul. It was after all these special ones that the Little Ones showed up the first time. And if we stick with the most solid theory so far that the first at least 12 Little Ones were infants and young children from the hospital, then it makes perfect sense that they were simply too late at the party to become a real threat so far, i.e. they were too late to spread their type of zomby-agent, because there was nearly no one available to be infected anymore...
All the best!
Liam


Furthermore, I think that the first special ones appeared sometime before The Other Tower (Dunbar) fell to the zombie attack. Kalani tells Micheal, Angel and Saul about Ground Zero and how the inhabitants of the other Tower reported strange 'creatures' there. "Some of them could jump high, others could run really fast, Well, you get the picture."

I've always suspected that the night of the rain storm when the power goes out as being the night of the Attack on CJ's tower. That would put their convoy going missing prior to Burt, Lizzy and Saul discovering the remains of the ambushed convoy.

[Deacon_Tyler]

Really hoping Denver didn't go down....I dunno, I liked the idea of a 'safe zone', Ft. Irwin, etc. 30 chapters of "no hope" was about enough for me and I'm looking forward to a huge showdown that will make me clutch a domestic beer and scream "AMUURRRRRIIIICAAAA"

[LiamKerrington]

Furthermore, I think that the first special ones appeared sometime before The Other Tower (Dunbar) fell to the zombie attack. Kalani tells Micheal, Angel and Saul about Ground Zero and how the inhabitants of the other Tower reported strange 'creatures' there. "Some of them could jump high, others could run really fast, Well, you get the picture."

I've always suspected that the night of the rain storm when the power goes out as being the night of the Attack on CJ's tower. That would put their convoy going missing prior to Burt, Lizzy and Saul discovering the remains of the ambushed convoy.

Yeah, you are right: The strange ones at ground zero were recognized by CJ's people. But this still happened at least some days later then the zombie-apocalypse. Therefore I think it is safe to assume that the special ones, especially the Little Ones had no chance to get involved with the zeeh-pocalypse in the beginning. Although the Wiki-timeline is pretty uncertain about CJ's tower, it is just a thing of 'logic', I think, that CJs people started their scavenging and exploration some time later AFTER having established at least some basic means of fortification at the Tower ...

@2bgood: +1

All the best!
Liam

[Hoff4D]

For all of you who say Denver could not go down in 2hrs, remember the world went down in 2 days and this is a nastier zombie who infects other much faster.

For fun I set up a spread sheet that tracks how fast Denver could go down. I assumed one Inkling could kill 2 people and infect 2 people in populated area in 5 minutes. Result: every one gone in under 1.5 hours. Happy to run other numbers for you, but here is the result of the 2 + 2 in 5min assumption.



2166

I'm not saying the city couldn't go down in 2 hrs, I was saying I doubt it went down in 2 hrs without getting at least ONE "HELP!" out....as someone else has said, even Kalani got out a radio to the Mallers while The Other Tower was overrun....and Kalani is a "fatass"

[Privateer]

Really hoping Denver didn't go down....I dunno, I liked the idea of a 'safe zone', Ft. Irwin, etc. 30 chapters of "no hope" was about enough for me and I'm looking forward to a huge showdown that will make me clutch a domestic beer and scream "AMUURRRRRIIIICAAAA"

Do you mean Boulder, or did I miss a chunk of thos thred? :P i agree with you though! 30 chapters if just, no hope, followed by Ohthankgodpeople. If Boulder or, well, the safe zones are taken now, it saps the intereazt of survival to some degree. What's left to fight for if all thats left are a few hubdred people behind a fence at the Colony? Can the folks really press on knowing that Humanity is just /done/?

[Hoff4D]

Yeah, you are right: The strange ones at ground zero were recognized by CJ's people. But this still happened at least some days later then the zombie-apocalypse. Therefore I think it is safe to assume that the special ones, especially the Little Ones had no chance to get involved with the zeeh-pocalypse in the beginning. Although the Wiki-timeline is pretty uncertain about CJ's tower, it is just a thing of 'logic', I think, that CJs people started their scavenging and exploration some time later AFTER having established at least some basic means of fortification at the Tower ...

@2bgood: +1

All the best!
Liam

Refer to 30-3 around the 7 minute mark. Glenn even says they must not have been the first to turn, or there would be more like them. Kc's got his story backed up for ya :zombie:

[Witch_Doctor]

I have an Inkling that Witch_Doctor really wants to call them ADLO's but just doesn't want to admit it. :zombie:

Actually, I believe ADLO is the word for Inkling in the Inklish language. Surrounding Ground Zero is what we call Inglewood, or as the Inkler himself would call it, Inkland. :D

[Witch_Doctor]

For all of you who say Denver could not go down in 2hrs, remember the world went down in 2 days and this is a nastier zombie who infects other much faster.

For fun I set up a spread sheet that tracks how fast Denver could go down. I assumed one Inkling could kill 2 people and infect 2 people in populated area in 5 minutes. Result: every one gone in under 1.5 hours. Happy to run other numbers for you, but here is the result of the 2 + 2 in 5min assumption.



2166


I haven't run the simulation yet, but here's Boulder.
http://www.class3outbreak.com/maps/19316/boulder-co-usa/games/1


EDIT: OK, I just ran it. Funny as all get up. You should have this conga-line of zombies chasing some poor schmuck around a park.

[Witch_Doctor]

After listening to episode 46 of We're Not Dead, when they mentioned the new forum member pointing out that both Ink and the Inklings have normal eye color instead of the glassy eyes of the other zombies, I thought of something.

Could Ink be an Inkling? Specifically, are they same type of being?

Both the Inkler and the Inklings have normal colored eyes, stand about 2.15 meters tall, seemingly bullet-proof skin, speed, strength and agility.

We are given a glimpse of Ink's super human feats in Chapter 11 part one in the tower where he survives two shots from Burt's rifle (assumed by Saul to be due to body armor), Jumps from the 2th floor of the tower and runs like Steve Austin while Burt Lee Harvey Oswald's him in the hand.

Are his teeth Inklish too? Michael mentions his few remaining broken teeth as he grinned and stood over 6 and a half feet tall.

What about the pale skin? Well, we can't tell because he's covered in all of those tattoos.

[LiamKerrington]

+1

[Hoff4D]

After listening to episode 46 of We're Not Dead, when they mentioned the new forum member pointing out that both Ink and the Inklings have normal eye color instead of the glassy eyes of the other zombies, I thought of something.

Could Ink be an Inkling? Specifically, are they same type of being?

Both the Inkler and the Inklings have normal colored eyes, stand about 2.15 meters tall, seemingly bullet-proof skin, speed, strength and agility.

We are given a glimpse of Ink's super human feats in Chapter 11 part one in the tower where he survives two shots from Burt's rifle (assumed by Saul to be due to body armor), Jumps from the 2th floor of the tower and runs like Steve Austin while Burt Lee Harvey Oswald's him in the hand.

Are his teeth Inklish too? Michael mentions his few remaining broken teeth as he grinned and stood over 6 and a half feet tall.

What about the pale skin? Well, we can't tell because he's covered in all of those tattoos.

If I wasn't being told by the forum button to 'spread around the reputation'....you would be getting some.

+1

Oh dammit...but then...Why the numbers/tattoos/nails on the floor in the hospital?

[LiamKerrington]

Little One => ADLO or Inkling?
ADLO sounds log dog-food; Inkling may imply a direct link between Ink and the Little Ones too heavily, although the theories and thoughts about it so far are very solid and none I would dismiss as too far-fetched or not valid ...

How about this one: GULO ... Grown Up Little Ones ... ? Or is it too close to Gollum???
f*ck ... Why do I even consider things of WND worth to be translated into dead-horse postings ...

[Witch_Doctor]

Little One => ADLO or Inkling?
ADLO sounds log dog-food; Inkling may imply a direct link between Ink and the Little Ones too heavily, although the theories and thoughts about it so far are very solid and none I would dismiss as too far-fetched or not valid ...

How about this one: GULO ... Grown Up Little Ones ... ? Or is it too close to Gollum???
f*ck ... Why do I even consider things of WND worth to be translated into dead-horse postings ...

GOLU sounds as apropo as any other.

[Hoff4D]

GOLU sounds as apropo as any other.

Sounds like a Super Saiyan Zombie

[LiamKerrington]

Sounds like a Super Saiyan Zombie

Lol ...

[Graves]

One thing about this episode is that it got me thinking all the way back to chapter 10 (Purgatory), where Datu was trapped with Samantha and Kalani at the arena.

In this episode we hear a lot about these ADLO's/Inklings and that they resemble Ink far more then normal zombies, and are clearly far more advanced then the normal ones running around. Its got me thinking that these new zombies are potentially a product of whatever ink was doing to captured survivors. Its suggested in chapter 10 by Sam that people were taken down there, "played around" with and then eaten, but neither she or Datu ever actually watched it happen.

What if zombies infected by Ink personally become these "Inklings" and only the uninfected can in turn, become new "inklings". That could explain why there isn't already a surplus of them running around LA. What with most of the cities inhabitants already having been infected by the "normals".

Basically what I'm saying is what if the special zombies aren't some kind of evolution of the species but originate from a single source that has so far been unable to hit larger numbers like the normals were. That could explain why there's only been around 6 Behemoths/Big ones seen, and why the "Jumpers" have basically died out. Because either their source infected either died off or has yet to be able to hit larger numbers of people.

Thoughts?

[LiamKerrington]

One thing about this episode is that it got me thinking all the way back to chapter 10 (Purgatory), where Datu was trapped with Samantha and Kalani at the arena.

In this episode we hear a lot about these ADLO's/Inklings and that they resemble Ink far more then normal zombies, and are clearly far more advanced then the normal ones running around. Its got me thinking that these new zombies are potentially a product of whatever ink was doing to captured survivors. Its suggested in chapter 10 by Sam that people were taken down there, "played around" with and then eaten, but neither she or Datu ever actually watched it happen.

What if zombies infected by Ink personally become these "Inklings" and only the uninfected can in turn, become new "inklings". That could explain why there isn't already a surplus of them running around LA. What with most of the cities inhabitants already having been infected by the "normals".

Basically what I'm saying is what if the special zombies aren't some kind of evolution of the species but originate from a single source that has so far been unable to hit larger numbers like the normals were. That could explain why there's only been around 6 Behemoths/Big ones seen, and why the "Jumpers" have basically died out. Because either their source infected either died off or has yet to be able to hit larger numbers of people.

Thoughts?

Reasonable.

[Witch_Doctor]

I wonder if any have died off. Skittle told Angel and Kalani that he hasn't seen any jumpers around anymore. Also, after the war, a number of characters have remarked that fewer and fewer zombies come around.

[Robzombie]

My take on the whole 'where are all the zombies' is that for part of it i'm sure some have starved and died off, but i think the main reason is that Ink has gathered them into his army. I'm also betting that they have been on the move, but where will they show up?? The colony, ft Irwin, Boulder?? If they go to Boulder they have some desert and the mountains to cross...plus i think they would have been spotted by the flights between ft Irwin. Ft Irwin, idk, maybe, but ive noticed that there does always seem to be zombies around the colony.

[Witch_Doctor]

...Ft Irwin, idk, maybe, but ive noticed that there does always seem to be zombies around the colony.

Yep. Tanya mentions this to Michael when they are prepping to go to Fort Irwin. When she was trying to convince Michael to allow her to expand on Lizzie's experiments she says that they're rarely seen around the Tower as of late but the Colony was just attacked the previous week.

They certainly don't like fire, though. They rarely came back after the fire from the War. During the fire, Angel says that they were called away until the flames subsided. Then there is the arena, but hey, who can blame them there.

[Jannit]

If the Arena was a main base of operations for the zombies, it would stand to reason that their numbers took a substantial hit when the Mallers attacked. Even without enough to blow the arena sky-high the Mallers probably managed to destroy a good number in the attack.

Then again, I like some of the other theories presented so far as well.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

Starvation is a good estimate:
During Datu's vacation to Arena-Zombieland we actually saw that the Zombies have piled up bodies for purposes of food - mostly of dead people.
Only occassionally we learned about dead bodies lying around here and there - the last time Lizzy described avoiding cars with dead bodies in it. Reason: Them Zeds have gathered 'em bodies, or 'em bodies were eaten by wild animals and bacteria.
At the yacht Broken Wing and Chicken Little recognized that the Zeds seemed to show signs of starvation.
Skittles explained a) they eat anything, even themselves, and b) they even would try to eat cans with food in it.

The whole point about these bit and pieces of information: the number of available bodies is (very) limited. And:

Since Zeds' only two skills in "creating" food are a) collecting what is available and b) killing people or themselves I think it is more likely that they die off ... Like a virus that strikes at the body: Body = population, Virus = zombies; Virus kills Body, thus Body dies ... Thus the remaining zombies are pretty much what is left over.

Ink's army: Yeah, probably. But not for purposes of creating a horde and starting to conquer whatever, but more as to create a 'communuity' that stands a chance to survive. Very far stretch: And I would even bet something unimportant that the Smart Ones already started something around the concepts of a garden or something ...

[Robzombie]

Chapter 23, part 1, the Devils Workshop, near the end. I really think its significant in Burts monolog how he realizes that the zombie horde was no longer like some "mob flailing around", "this was an army"...is going to be very significant to the fourth season. I absolutely think hes consolidating any and all zombies exactly for the purpose of seeking out and destroying all humans. Ink wants power, domination, and destruction, not to run for mayor. The only survival he'll care about is his own and his armies but only for the purpose of serving his own intentions.

[clem131]

We are given a glimpse of Ink's super human feats in Chapter 11 part one in the tower where he survives two shots from Burt's rifle (assumed by Saul to be due to body armor)

If I recall correctly, Michael says that when Ink turns to jump out the window he could see the holes in his suit, so the bullets went through -> Ink is not bulletproof, he's just somehow very resilient (I prefer the bulletproof skin to this because it sound less like magic). IDK, maybe it's just that at that point in the story KC hadn't made up his mind yet on all the small technical details. We'll see if an edited version comes out :P

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there.

@Robzombie: good point. Yeah, the horde back at the Devil's Workshop felt like being an army. And I agree with you insofar that this might become important in season 4. But also keep in mind that we learned about the decreasing number of zombie-incidence from different sources ...