Chapter 33-2 Red Winter

[nikvoodoo]

In this episode we find out if TOWTM finds love.....

...ok not really. Enjoy!

[7oddisdead]

Ah...its lonesome at the top...i can empathize with him..nobody to share all your hopes and dreams with...just a bunch of random snarling people around you..just waiting for that moment when somebody, anybody appears and stands out from the crowd...and hopefully does not smell like dookie....sounds like everyday of me life.

:hsugh:

[Cabbage Patch]

TOWTM + Scratch = Love :D

[fridginators]

I wonder if Michael will create a Zack for KODI

[nikvoodoo]

TOWTM + Scratch = Love :D

I can see that working like Dead Ash and the Possessed Princess in Army of Darkness.

[Adventureless_Hero]

TOWTM + Scratch = Love :D

I think I had a daydream about an epic battle between the two; something akin to Predator 2, but instead of Danny Glover, it would be Jenna McCombie vs. the Predator.

[UndeadSweeper]

Are we also going talk about KC Season Finale Spoiler? ;-)

[Robzombie]

Arrrggg....why don't these come out Sunday night....I have no available network connection to download to my iPad while at work so I have to wait until I get home at 6, and then I get no peace until around 9 or 10 pm to listen to it while it seems everyone else has listened and are already commenting (it gets hard not reading these and spoiling it for myself), its just not fair I tell ya...but I do enjoy my Monday nights.

[Witch_Doctor]

One hour and one minute till it's available for download. Those early releases have spoiled me.

[Penguine]

KC says he has not watched The Walking Dead, and this weeks sponsor talks about The Walking Dead. LOL! and Adult Friend Finder.. KC you naughty man!

[LiamKerrington]

Interesting ...
... we learned a lot about ... things ... !

Oh, Michael ... What are you doin', you crazy mad-head???

All the best!
Liam

[Penguine]

Good episode. Why do they all seem so shorth though? I think it is awesome that Micheal grew a set of balls on this one. Eventually you have to start analyzing what you are up against if you expect to defeat it. I was kind of hoping they would find Kimmets neice tied down and changed though.. oh well. Awesome on the use of a Blackhawk with a mini-gun, that made me smile.

#2 is cold resistant and semi-bullet resistant, thats an interesting twist.

Now to listen again!

[Cabbage Patch]

Looks like kudos are in order for Comrade Narf. I just listened to WND #44, where he predicted that the Season Finale would involve a threat to Boulder. Now we know how that could happen!

[Robzombie]

must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....must stop reading posts before listening to the new release....

[Privateer]

Oh dear. Michael might be getting into a heap of trouble here. His aggressive approach to research and intelligence is good, but Kimmet's conservative easy of doing things means Irwin I'd still around. It'll be interesting to see if Michael gets fitted for this, out if this is the start of the end for Boulder and Irwin. A behemoth in Boulder well be a bad thing.

That being said, immensely enjoyed the banter in the beginning! Awesome ep!

[LiamKerrington]

My mind goes crazy ... Will Kimmet and Cross end up like Durai and Scratch? Or more like the Treky Marcus and Michael?

[Penguine]

It is still the Army Liam.. I dont think there will be a killing in the future. If there is I think the story will go bad from there. NCO's sometimes disobey the orders of officers if they think the order is stupid. Micheal wants to get that body to Tonya so she can disect it and give him some info. And what is it going to hurt if Tonya is locked up with it and under surveillance? Sure Kimmet is going to be pissed, for one he lost a family member, for two his order was disobeyed, but I think Michael will get a reprimand, maybe lose a stripe, but I doubt he will be fired since he is the only Intel person Kimmet has.

[Privateer]

My mind goes crazy ... Will Kimmet and Cross end up like Durai and Scratch? Or more like the Treky Marcus and Michael?

Nah. Its Michael taking the risk here. Irwin/Boulder are the last vestiges of civilization, while the Mallers are the representation of savagery and the slide of humanity backwards. Irwin can't devolve into a Kimmet/Cross knifefight, as Awesome as that would be! But Michael might not be an E-6 for very much longer.

[HardKor]

Nah. Its Michael taking the risk here. Irwin/Boulder are the last vestiges of civilization, while the Mallers are the representation of savagery and the slide of humanity backwards. Irwin can't devolve into a Kimmet/Cross knifefight, as Awesome as that would be! But Michael might not be an E-6 for very much longer.

You're absolutely right. Kimmet and Michael aren't going to end up fighting to the death. But Kimmet seems pretty erratic. Just something about the sound of his voice makes him seem like he's about to snap. Could it come down to Michael having force Kimmet to step down if he goes off the deep end? Just a thought...

[Adventureless_Hero]

Interesting. I would love it if Boulder were over run. That missing private that broke out of his restraints...I wonder where he is. 30 miles in the cold is a long way for an Advanced Little One to go. I'm wondering if it would even make it that far. They might be resilient against the cold, but I doubt they are impervious. And even then, they'd have to have some highly advanced sense of smell or something to know which direction to head. Still, I really hope Boulder gets over run and Kimmet cracks under the pressure, blaming himself leaving a spot open for Michael to assume command.

Let's see what Tanya learns from the corpse of #2. Since it is so low in tattoo number, it could be one of the very first variant zombies Pinstripes created.

I also need to work on the timeline. Knowing when these events take place in relation to the Saul/Maller timeline might help us predect when Michael will get in touch with the group in L.A. I imagine there will come a day when Michael's SAT phone goes ring ring and Victor, Lizzy, or Saul will be on the other line.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there.

Thank you, Penguine. Basically I expect something to happen along the lines you write.
Never been to the army though; and even if I was in the German army, this one I don't consider an army, but a bunch of d-bags ... So I don't know much about the rules within the military services.
The question for me would be like this: Michael disobeyes an order and will have to deal with a pissed Colonel. Now, if rules of war of whatever kind would apply, would Kimmet have the right to even death-sentence Michael for disobedience? Or would Michael as just a Sergeant be allowed to question Kimmet even in a way to 'overrule' Kimmet and take command?
No way something like Duari-Scratch will happen in the literary sense, but how unlikely would be a more astract scheme of Michael overthrowing chain of command and taking control ... ;)
Edit: so basically the same question like HardKor raises there ... /edit ends.

All the best!
Liam

[Privateer]

Well, any idea that Michael is gonna take over, has to take into account Cross' rank, and what billet he's filling. Yeah, he knows a lot, and would probably be able to hack the job, but unless he gets a brevet promotion by the command structure (or even a commission from the civilian chain of command), there are other officers in front of him in line for command. The Army, from what I understand, doesn't usually let a staff sergeant fill a colonels' billet.

[Cabbage Patch]

I think that before the Kimmet/Michael crisis can fully develop that we're going to have to get to know other members of the military leadership at Fort Irwin and Boulder. Kimmet's acting erratic. ...

[7oddisdead]

i have a hard time seeing a conflict at boulder becoming anything more than a looming threat for this season. that would make for a very nice cliffhanger. man, just think abouot how screwed boulder is if he actually does make it there though.

agree with A_heros thoughts on the little one. also, #2 is enough evidence to say they have been "growing" into their bodies....and all the subsequent fun stuff we learned about the "bit by a lil one, become one" stuff....

good episode, we got a lot of confirmation here

[LiamKerrington]

Mh, OK ... I see. Yeah, the gap between (staff?) sergeant and colonel might be too big ... But I like the prospect of having a hgh-ranked officer screwing up and giving heroes a chance to step up ... ;) But is Michael the hero dude?
At least his action is something I highly approve! Knowledge is power. And actually the sweat-bombs as well as the KODI-activities are based upon knowledge about the Zeds ... So any more information about the special ones is at least just as vital ...

Yet I still wonder what Kimmet will do with Michael ... And how would Puck react to it. I mean, if Kimmet has broken a couple of vital rules within the system, would Puck have the right to enforce the law, since he is/ was MP? This is going to be very interesting.

Interesting would also be, if the soldier in the chopper really bags up #2 instead of the captain, because this soldier actually had a clear order from Kimmet and would not have obeyed to it, if he takes/ took #2's body ...

This is getting more and more complicated ...

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

I would love it if Boulder were over run. That missing private that broke out of his restraints...I wonder where he is. 30 miles in the cold is a long way for an Advanced Little One to go. I'm wondering if it would even make it that far. They might be resilient against the cold, but I doubt they are impervious. And even then, they'd have to have some highly advanced sense of smell or something to know which direction to head.

Unless the turned little one retains some/ all of the knowledge of its former being as a human ... Then Boulder, although being 30mi away, won't be as far away anymore, wouldn't it ... *snip*
We actually know that "lil'ones" are smart to some degree; if they have access to the knowledge ... => uh Oohh!

[Privateer]

Its a good question, as to if the soldier on the ground, having heard Kimmets' order, will be liable for punishment.The MP is charged with enforcing the UCMJ, but as far as we've seen, he hasn't done...

[Adventureless_Hero]

I had thought on Kimmet's reluctance to bring the Advanced Little One in for dissection. Sure he is being cautious and he says so by saying he doesn't want a repeat incident where one of the Forts is over run. BUT, what if there is something else? Something he knows about the blood in zombies. That could be why he hasn't let Michael provide Tanya with a zombie sample other than to let Tanya cross reference her own blood samples with those of uninfected. I bet that with the sample Michael provided, Tanya is going to find something startling. Just a thought.

[LiamKerrington]

I had thought on Kimmet's reluctance to bring the Advanced Little One in for dissection. Sure he is being cautious and he says so by saying he doesn't want a repeat incident where one of the Forts is over run. BUT, what if there is something else? Something he knows about the blood in zombies. That could be why he hasn't let Michael provide Tanya with a zombie sample other than to let Tanya cross reference her own blood samples with those of uninfected. I bet that with the sample Michael provided, Tanya is going to find something startling. Just a thought.

This kind of idea lingers in the back of my head as well ... Like, you know, kind of an Umbrella-thing making Boulder kind of a more localized testing facility or whatever ... But my ratio keeps this idea back ... for now!

[UndeadSweeper]

Interesting. I would love it if Boulder were over run. That missing private that broke out of his restraints...I wonder where he is. 30 miles in the cold is a long way for an Advanced Little One to go. I'm wondering if it would even make it that far. They might be resilient against the cold, but I doubt they are impervious. And even then, they'd have to have some highly advanced sense of smell or something to know which direction to head. Still, I really hope Boulder gets over run and Kimmet cracks under the pressure, blaming himself leaving a spot open for Michael to assume command.

Let's see what Tanya learns from the corpse of #2. Since it is so low in tattoo number, it could be one of the very first variant zombies Pinstripes created.

I also need to work on the timeline. Knowing when these events take place in relation to the Saul/Maller timeline might help us predect when Michael will get in touch with the group in L.A. I imagine there will come a day when Michael's SAT phone goes ring ring and Victor, Lizzy, or Saul will be on the other line.

I think the quick turn and harden skin could be us that it can probably survive the cold and maybe going on his memory of where Boulder is. So we are passing new traits through genes? Wow!? Is Pinstripes a mad scientist?


Oh dear. Michael might be getting into a heap of trouble here. His aggressive approach to research and intelligence is good, but Kimmet's conservative easy of doing things means Irwin I'd still around. It'll be interesting to see if Michael gets fitted for this, out if this is the start of the end for Boulder and Irwin. A behemoth in Boulder well be a bad thing.

That being said, immensely enjoyed the banter in the beginning! Awesome ep!

Kimmet in a way is doing the same thing with get the girl body back. He also putting Boulder in danger.


Also isn't the responsibly of the intel officer to gain intel?

[Privateer]

I had thought on Kimmet's reluctance to bring the Advanced Little One in for dissection. Sure he is being cautious and he says so by saying he doesn't want a repeat incident where one of the Forts is over run. BUT, what if there is something else? Something he knows about the blood in zombies. That could be why he hasn't let Michael provide Tanya with a zombie sample other than to let Tanya cross reference her own blood samples with those of uninfected. I bet that with the sample Michael provided, Tanya is going to find something startling. Just a thought.

It would be a really interesting wrinkle! But Kimmet has no reason to hide it. Civilization is gone for the most part, there's no government to embarrass, no ours to report on a scandal. He might keep it from Boulder, but not to his intelligence man. Speaking of which, /is/ Michael serving in an officer's billet?

[Cabbage Patch]

I had thought on Kimmet's reluctance to bring the Advanced Little One in for dissection. Sure he is being cautious and he says so by saying he doesn't want a repeat incident where one of the Forts is over run. BUT, what if there is something else? Something he knows about the blood in zombies. That could be why he hasn't let Michael provide Tanya with a zombie sample other than to let Tanya cross reference her own blood samples with those of uninfected. I bet that with the sample Michael provided, Tanya is going to find something startling. Just a thought.

It seems odd that Kimmet would keep critical knowledge to himself! Not that that would be out of place in this story. It felt like the first words out of anybody's mouth at the Tower when they learned something was "let's not tell the others about this".

[Eviebae]

This was a nicely balanced episode. A character building, plot developing, information gathering, adrenaline inducing episode. <br />
<br />
Physical descriptions of the zombies! Funny how just calling this...

[LiamKerrington]

Adult Friend Fider => Yeehaww!

[Hoff4D]

I think Kimmet's decisions WERE consistent, until the need to bring his niece's body back, without questions. He's hardlined on this, no mattter WHO is at risk, evidenced by just making the body...

[UndeadSweeper]

It seems odd that Kimmet would keep critical knowledge to himself! Not that that would be out of place in this story. It felt like the first words out of anybody's mouth at the Tower when they learned something was "let's not tell the others about this".

We still haven't heard anything about his visit of the other site.

[Hoff4D]

Little more food for thought too. Not sure if they're just doing some more trash-talkin about Tony Robbin's "fat ass", or really meant it, but before they landed at the crash site, they mentioned they're running lower than normal on fuel....It seems we're only getting a direct report from Tony robbins in this episode, not the Carl Thomas....I'm not sure how they run out of fuel and only Tony makes it back (Or documents it in some journal) to tell his story, but I feel its worth noting potential future fuel issues in the blackhawk

[Hoff4D]

Props to KC, for the character development of a freaking zombie! The little ones started as some 'smart than the average (tiny) zombie' in the maller attack.....lurked on Kalani/Angel in the shadows back at the base....waited out the Chinook in LA....then exhibited all the foreshadowed characteristics in the crash site by luring the men to the trees, jumped in and out of the trees to avoid taking fire. These Z's got some style


More of the Little Ones theories pop into my head as I sit here. We seemed to semi-confirm little ones beget little ones...and quickly. As the turner shot toward the end became harder and harder skinned as the color faded away. However, the two wandering around the crash site shredded by the M134, were not numbered yet, or at least deemed unnecessary to inspect for being different? It had to be a few hours at least for the blackhawk to get there, leading me to believe the two wandering would've turned full big-little ones, yet they were never called out as such by our men on the ground. So is this adding to potential theory that (for example) BITTEN by a little one (injecting venom or something) turns you into a little one, but a scratch from a little one may turn you into just a regular zedhead?....and as for Long, if they want to eat you, they just eat you. No turning?


Clarification question: the 3 turners at the end 'put down'? I know at least one of them were from the blackhawk with them, perhaps even two or 3, but I did not distinguish from the audio that 5 men went out from the blackhawk(tony robbins, carl thomas, "Jackie" i believe they called the one as he turned, and the other 2 put down as they turned). So i guess, was it 3 guys from the blackhawk that were turning, or just 2, and the first one got up and crawled away after being shot, thus being shot again seeming like a 3rd turner? OR was one of these a remaining pilot from the Chinook that had just then turned, since our beloved niece was already bagged and half-eaten.

Sorry, that was a lot, hope it made sense.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Specialist Anthony Robbins immediately made me think that John C. Reilly was doing the voice work, and now that's the image I have stuck in my head. John C. Reilly as Specialist Anthony Robbins.

[Penguine]

Not sure where to start on this one. Lets go to Michael/Kimmet. If Kimmet followed the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) he would have limited things he could do to Michael. As a Staff Sergeant he would more or less lose one or two stripes but still be kept in the same billet (job) cause he is the only Intel person on Irwin. Chances are all that is going to happen though is that Kimmet will find out and call Michael to the carpet, probably with Puck right next to him, and rip in to him for disobeying an order, and they will both get some sort of extra-duty/restriction. While it may still be the Army, I am sure some things are handled a whole lot different. I really do not see anything more then that happening. Oh.. and no death sentence, that is WAY against the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

As for Micheal getting some sort of leadership role above what he has, that probably aint going to happen either. He is a Staff Sergeant and although he is an Intel troop I highly doubt leadership up to Kimmet and beyond is throwing out field commissions. To answer the question, a SSgt would never fill a Colonel position. There are main players in the story but you also have to think that their are higher ranking NCO's on Ft. Irwin. Just cause we dont' hear from them does not mean they don't exist. It would make no sense to think that the entire chain of command on Irwin is Kimmett, Micheal, Puck, then whoever is lower ranking then Puck.

[Penguine]

Carl is put in an odd spot at the end. Kimmet says burn it, Michael says bring it back, and Carl, well what does Carl do? Who does he listen to? And all the while Puck sitting there with his mouth shut.

Just had another crazy thought! Lets say Carl loads up #2 and brings it back to Irwin. Then lets say as Tonya is running tests on it that it comes back to life and goes on a rampage! or... What if it is pregnant?! They were referring to #2 as a she after-all. Can the Zeds have babies?

[Kc]

More of the Little Ones theories pop into my head as I sit here. We seemed to semi-confirm little ones beget little ones...and quickly. As the turner shot toward the end became harder and harder skinned as the color faded away. However, the two wandering around the crash site shredded by the M134, were not numbered yet, or at least deemed unnecessary to inspect for being different? It had to be a few hours at least for the blackhawk to get there, leading me to believe the two wandering would've turned full big-little ones, yet they were never called out as such by our men on the ground.
.

The two on the ground killed from the air had similar qualities to the ones they shot later, however they weren't examined as closely because they got shredded from the air.

Not giving anything away; just keeping on track.

[Hoff4D]

Hey, direct confirmation! nice. Much Appreciation, thanks KC!

[Adventureless_Hero]

The two on the ground killed from the air had similar qualities to the ones they shot later, however they weren't examined as closely because they got shredded from the air.

Not giving anything away; just keeping on track.

I figured the two on the ground that were shot by the Black Hawk side gun were shot to shit. They must have been turned by the Advanced Little One, so it stands to reason they would have similar qualities. I'm guessing that the restraints they found away from the helicopter came from the Private that was missing. Can't be 100% that he's turned, but the chances are good.


As a Staff Sergeant he would more or less lose one or two stripes but still be kept in the same billet (job) cause he is the only Intel person on Irwin.

Just a quick reminder, Michael is not a Staff Sergent. The Private gets chewed out by Cpl. Puck for making that mistake. "Out-falcon-standing!" :D

[Kc]

Just a quick reminder, Michael is not a Staff Sergent. The Private gets chewed out by Cpl. Puck for making that mistake. "Out-falcon-standing!" :D

He's a Staff Sergeant. She gets chewed out for calling him "Sir", which references officers.

[Hoff4D]

[QUOTE=Adventureless_Hero;47273]I figured the two on the ground that were shot by the Black Hawk side gun were shot to shit. They must have been turned by the Advanced Little One, so it stands to reason they would have similar qualities. I'm guessing that the restraints they found away from the helicopter came from the Private that was missing. Can't be 100% that he's turned, but the chances are good.

Yea, I originally figured they were tore to shreds, but based on the reaction to #2 of "I swore I hit him more than this"...they were rather bullet resistant even to the M134, and left in reasonable pieces, worth investigating since the one directly dealt with was 'special'....was originally just speculating.

[Adventureless_Hero]

He's a Staff Sergeant. She gets chewed out for calling him "Sir", which references officers.

In my face! Lol

:tinfoil:

[Hoff4D]

He's a Staff Sergeant. She gets chewed out for calling him "Sir", which references officers.


I started re-listening to the podcast (again) to get more of a fix than weekly, and literally AS i read your reply, KC, I started Ch 4-3 where Tommy says "yes sir" and Michael says "Call me Sargeant, or Michael. I'm not an officer, I work for a living."

Laughed loud enough to get some odd stares at work....best finish this project and get off the forums! whoops! lol

[Adventureless_Hero]

It's creepy how similar to insects the L.A. zombies are. I was thinking about how they hitch rides on helicopters and it reminded me of fleas. That and the way they have a hive. Thinking of them as insects creeps me out even more than just thinking them of zombies. Nasty ass insects.

[Kc]

[QUOTE=Adventureless_Hero;47273]
Yea, I originally figured they were tore to shreds, but based on the reaction to #2 of "I swore I hit him more than this"...they were rather bullet resistant even to the M134, and left in reasonable pieces, worth investigating since the one directly dealt with was 'special'....was originally just speculating.

The two from the air, were shredded, but the #2 wasn't as bad.

That's all I will say-

[Hoff4D]

[QUOTE=Hoff4D;47275]

The two from the air, were shredded, but the #2 wasn't as bad.

That's all I will say-

Say no more.

Matter of fact, didn't even need to say that much, I was sort of adding my speculation in the undertones as it were. But I appreciate the confirmation of at least my suspicions of damage taken ::yay:

[Penguine]

I wish I had a spare $215K laying around. I found a working M134 for sale. :)

[ferroaj]

HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS GAME WORK!?!?!?!?!?!?!

--"How many ducks are hanging out on the lawn?"
--"The man loves his beef tacos."
--"Alright, go ahead Fowler."

--"Three tangos sit on a wire."
--"The Roman pillar fell on the fish."
--"Haha! That's a good one!"

Any insight would be much appreciated.

[Kc]

HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS GAME WORK!?!?!?!?!?!?!

--"How many ducks are hanging out on the lawn?"
--"The man loves his beef tacos."
--"Alright, go ahead Fowler."

--"Three tangos sit on a wire."
--"The Roman pillar fell on the fish."
--"Haha! That's a good one!"

Any insight would be much appreciated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersign_%28military%29

It's much simpler than you think...

[facebook.com/alexinks]

2145

Really great episode this round.
Usually michael is a bit milque-toast,
seeing that he is the general main character
(the blank slate everyone is supposed to get
along with) and although he's had a bit of a minor
character growth compared to everyone else,
i liked that there was a hint of something more
at the end of this... it was a nice cut away from
everyone else in the series w/new cool characters.

[ferroaj]

Son of a bitch. I'm a terrible code breaker.

[cupcakezombie]

Did anyone else hear some new sounds from the improved little ones this week.
To me they kind of sound like some of the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, and almost like communication.

[nikvoodoo]

You know how you say something and immediately regret it?

I clicked off skype to end wnd #44 and thought "well fucking duh.... Carl's in boulder. He's the ticket to go there!"

Glad it didn't go that chalk because at least no one would guess adult friend finder narrator

[awkwardalex]

So glad that the forum is working again.

This episode leaves us woth more questions...did puck get past that level for michael?

[Penguine]

HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS GAME WORK!?!?!?!?!?!?!

--"How many ducks are hanging out on the lawn?"
--"The man loves his beef tacos."
--"Alright, go ahead Fowler."

--"Three tangos sit on a wire."
--"The Roman pillar fell on the fish."
--"Haha! That's a good one!"

Any insight would be much appreciated.

As KC stated, sign/countersign, although this sign/countersign is pretty deep. When I was enlisted we were given a chart with numbers down one side and letters across the bottom, and the boxes had words in them. If you were challenged with, for example A7, you would respond back with whatever word was in that box, lets say Chicken. On the other hand, if you were challenged with Chicken you would respond back with A7.

Have not heard any in play, but there are also things called duress words. Lets say the duress word/words are "chicken nuts". If you were under duress and talking on the radio or phone you would say something like "Did you know that chicken nuts are real? That should key in the person you are talking to you that something is not right. LOL.. bad example but it works for a simple explanation.

[UndeadSweeper]

As KC stated, sign/countersign, although this sign/countersign is pretty deep. When I was enlisted we were given a chart with numbers down one side and letters across the bottom, and the boxes had words in them. If you were challenged with, for example A7, you would respond back with whatever word was in that box, lets say Chicken. On the other hand, if you were challenged with Chicken you would respond back with A7.

Have not heard any in play, but there are also things called duress words. Lets say the duress word/words are "chicken nuts". If you were under duress and talking on the radio or phone you would say something like "Did you know that chicken nuts are real? That should key in the person you are talking to you that something is not right. LOL.. bad example but it works for a simple explanation.

So when Glenn told Saul that one of the chicken had died, it was code for get back to Dunbar soon Peter has gone nuts?

[LiamKerrington]

Did anyone else hear some new sounds from the improved little ones this week.
To me they kind of sound like some of the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, and almost like communication.

Funny. I had to think of Transformers-robots ... Communication? Maybe, not even unlikely.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

so, this episode goes deep into military-customs. Compared with what I knew so far this was a lot. Thank you very much.

Prediction mode:

1) The little one gets back to Irwin. Will Kimmet let Tanya or whomever work on it? Or will Michael and friends be quick enough to get it to Tanye, before Kimmet could stop them? Maybe, at least, some toilets will receive some cleansing with toothbrushes ...

2) Soldier amiss: Did he break the restraints? or was he able to unlock 'em? First case: he is a Zed, second case: how likely would it be that he was able to flee from 'em beasts? Considering their hunting-abilities and the turning speed I wouldn't go as far as saying he got away. It is more likely that he is either another little-one on the loose (more likely) or he was the little-ones' lunchtime (less likely). And if he is on the loose, how likely would it be for him/ it to reach Boulder? That again heavily depends on three factors: Do little-ones retain the knowledge of their former lives, and/or how much luck in finding or stumbling over Boulder should be involved, and/or do little ones freeze being exposed to low temperatures for a longer period of time? Q1: I guess so, Q2: maybe they have some kind of basic understanding of direction, Q3: one little one was attached to the Chinook for quite a while before it was able to breach the hull, which implies: no, they do not freeze even if exposed for a longer time.

So: #33-3 cliffhanger could be: Boulder under attack? Too far-fetched?

All the best!
Liam

[Condor]

As for bringing back #2's body, I think Michael will try to sneak the body in like he did with the other samples he's been getting Tanya. I think Puck already knows he has been doing this, because seriously did he really believe in the last part Michael was checking for ID. I think Puck will help sneak the body past Kimmet.

Who was the picked-up "soldier" on the Chinook? Seems as if most are thinking he is infected and heading to Boulder, but I'm thinking that's not the case. I'm thinking it's Skittles. He could have been wearing a uniform he found at the base and been mistaken for a soldier. They probably couldn't get much out of him and if he were in uniform they may just assume he was a soldier in shock. It might also be another Maller plant, not likely, put maybe? Another possibility, maybe Marcus isn't dead and is still playing Army. That might be a stretch, but it would be a surprise re-appearance.

Also, there might have been more than one stow-away on the Chinook. They may have gotten #2, but there still could be another that could threaten Boulder.


On a side note: I've been re-listening to old chapters and caught something in chapter 24, the person driving the tanker into the tower is named Puck. Is this a coincidence that we now have a Corporal Puck? It couldn't be the same person, since it's presumed the tanker driver was killed. Even if he did survive, there wouldn't have been enough time to get to Ft Irwin before Michael and company. Is it possible that tanker driver Puck and Corporal Puck are brothers? I don't have a clue how the two characters could be linked together in the story, but it seems very odd to have to characters with the same name and not have some connection to each other.Nevermind, missed this discussion earlier.



I had thought on Kimmet's reluctance to bring the Advanced Little One in for dissection. Sure he is being cautious and he says so by saying he doesn't want a repeat incident where one of the Forts is over run. BUT, what if there is something else? Something he knows about the blood in zombies. That could be why he hasn't let Michael provide Tanya with a zombie sample other than to let Tanya cross reference her own blood samples with those of uninfected. I bet that with the sample Michael provided, Tanya is going to find something startling. Just a thought.Possible, but... back at the colony they did experiments, so most likely Tanya has already compared infected/uninfected/her blood. However, Victor has said they never encountered the nasty ones like they had near the tower, so who knows.


I wish I had a spare $215K laying around. I found a working M134 for sale. :)
I've got $20 if you want to go in together and buy it. :)

[USMC-CPL-Zombiekiller]

Awesome episode! I havent been put on the edge of my seat, taking in every sound like this since the first season. Well done KC.

Speaking of sounds, is it me or did the #2 sound like the Predator when they found it in the tree?

[Cabbage Patch]

On a side note: I've been re-listening to old chapters and caught something in chapter 24, the person driving the tanker into the tower is named Puck. Is this a coincidence that we now have a Corporal Puck? It couldn't be the same person, since it's presumed the tanker driver was killed. Even if he did survive, there wouldn't have been enough time to get to Ft Irwin before Michael and company. Is it possible that tanker driver Puck and Corporal Puck are brothers? I don't have a clue how the two characters could be linked together in the story, but it seems very odd to have to characters with the same name and not have some connection to each other.

K.C. answered this one quite a while back. It is a coincidence and the two Puck's aren't related. Here's the link: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2851-What-the-Puck&p=33622#post33622

[clem131]

I felt Boulder was in trouble since I heard Michael object to Kimmet's order, yet I'm having trouble imagining a single little one that they know is coming to them could do much. Or at least, he should not be able to do much. I'm sure one way or another it will happen.
The introduction of the new character was a nice touch. KC had 20 minutes to present Tony and have him act meaningfully in the story, and I think he did a great job of that, I'd say he's a lot more characterized than Carl is, for example. I think he will stick around for a while. Very good actor, too.

[Blood & Ice Cream]

my theory on the missing soldier is this:

early on in the podcast (3m 09s) the blackhawk occupants notice movement along the tree line, but quickly dismiss it - i think that was the missing soldier (Private Grigg?) who has been turned into an 'advanced little ones' and as this fleeting sighting of movement was between Boulder and the Chinook crash site - it suggests Grigg's is hot footing it towards Boulder :yay: for the season 3 showdown cliffhanger! as from 30-1 michael mentions how the chincook mission in longbeach was important quoting "the following was pieced together by various accounts, it might not be exact, but it was the best of what we know and its important to understand what happened and how it changed everything"! god damn you KC! :D

couple of other points:

2. Kimmet - also mentions the Army had also lost an outpost due to previous 'messing about'.. mmm.... perhaps some history here on zombie body examination

3. no mention of the map though - perhaps its with the Captain's remains?

4. how does Michael know about the little ones with numbers on? Which convoy is he referring to? the Dunbar Towers convoy or the the Maller convoy Lizzy was in? If that was the Maller convoy (which was attacked by number 5 - who also attacked from the trees by the way) and this was witnessed by Lizzy during '21-2 Mark of the Beast', and that information found by Saul in Lizzy's bag (the recorded messages on the tape) near the Ice Hockey Arena - this means Michael and Saul/Lizzy do meet up!

loving the sound effects on this one - outstanding guys! i was on the edge of my chair all the way though - desperate to hear another "GET TO DA CHOPPA" clip during the combat with the little one!

[Dyhoerium]

4. how does Michael know about the little ones with numbers on? Which convoy is he referring to? the Dunbar Towers convoy or the the Maller convoy Lizzy was in? If that was the Maller convoy (which was attacked by number 5 - who also attacked from the trees by the way) and this was witnessed by Lizzy during '21-2 Mark of the Beast', and that information found by Saul in Lizzy's bag (the recorded messages on the tape) near the Ice Hockey Arena - this means Michael and Saul/Lizzy do meet up!

Saul and Michael were still in contact when Saul found Lizzy's recording. This was before the tower fell. While I do think they will get back together, this isn't evidence that they will.

[UndeadSweeper]

Questions, can someone explain how strong these restraints are suppose to be? I thought with this group they have something heavy duty to hold people down, especially deal with people who can turn. Also who got bite? Last we knew the girl was crushed not bite?

[nikvoodoo]

Questions, can someone explain how strong these restraints are suppose to be? I thought with this group they have something heavy duty to hold people down, especially deal with people who can turn. Also who got bite? Last we knew the girl was crushed not bite?

Lots of things can happen in a crash. Lots of things can also happen when a Big Little One treats your chopper like a sardine can. Honestly, the restraints were probably nothing more than wrist restraints similar to handcuffs but with longer chains.

And again, with the rider on board just because she was crushed originally doesn't mean she wasn't attacked once again by the Cling-On Zomb. She could have been turned from that attack. We also aren't exactly keyed in on how little ones change people so maybe being crushed was the reason she changed.

[clem131]

We also aren't exactly keyed in on how little ones change people so maybe being crushed was the reason she changed.

There's a mention of self-inflicted scratches on the little ones, meaning a simple scratch could turn you, in theory.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Lots of things can happen in a crash. Lots of things can also happen when a Big Little One treats your chopper like a sardine can. Honestly, the restraints were probably nothing more than wrist restraints similar to handcuffs but with longer chains.


I'm at a loss on this one. I can't tell if the signs indicate the bloke in restraints escaped using the gifts of an Advanced Little One or if he managed to David Blaine himself out of those restraints. Are they chains or zip-ties? Just asking, but I imagine they'd use chains. Wouldn't want a potential biter restrained with just plastic zip-ties. Still, I am leaning more towards the missing private being an Advanced Little One now, simply for the fact that as they followed the foot prints they came across the restraints and I believe they said they were bloody.

Did they find the map? That missing private could have it on him; be he living or un-dead.

[Penguine]

Questions, can someone explain how strong these restraints are suppose to be? I thought with this group they have something heavy duty to hold people down, especially deal with people who can turn. Also who got bite? Last we knew the girl was crushed not bite?

I am thinking the straps that are used to hold the Captain and the other soldier down are more like this...http://www.skedco.com/Military/casevac-tccc/sk-957. These types of straps are standard Army issue.

They didn't say that Captain was changed. She was dead but still strapped to the litter. The Little Big One is a different female than the Captain.

[Adventureless_Hero]

The Little Big One is a different female than the Captain.

Hai, that is what I gathered from the episode too. Poor Captain Long got eated all up.

My guess, based off the evidence; the Advanced Little One tore up some of the Chinook's wiring and caused it to go down, but not down so quick that they were killed on impact (or did they say one of the pilots died on impact?). The advanced little one probably took advantage of the unsuspecting soldiers after the crash. We can presume that it turned at least two of them since the Black Hawk crew had to cut down two biters upon arriving. Those two were probably munching on Captain Long's corpse. Poor gal. I hope she was dead BEFORE they started eating.

As for the missing private that was in restraints, I don't recall if he was wounded when they left L.A. I'll have to go back and relisten. If he was wounded, we can assume he became a biter. If he wasn't, we can assume that he had a snow ball's chance in hell of escaping. If anything his corpse is either hanging in the tree where #2 was chilling out, or he has turned into a 2nd generation Little One and is roaming the snowy wilderness of Colorado.

[Penguine]

I GOT IT!!! The Chinook went down about 30minutes West/Southwest of Boulder. West/Southwest of Boulder is Breckenridge and Vail. What is in Breckenridge and Vail, CO? Ski Resorts! The Zombies are not going to invade Boulder. They want to get to Breckenridge and Vail for the 1st Annual Zombie Skiing and snowboarding competition. Makes sense. They are headed to their competition and only attack the soldiers cause the soldiers drew first blood by shooting two of them from the air.

As for the one human or zed on the ground and unaccounted for, he is the one putting together the event and is trying to be the first one there to make sure the ski lifts are still operational, and that skis and ski boots are available.

The movement they saw in the trees was Big Foot. But really, I am thinking when the Blackhawk veered slightly off course to check out "movement" that it was the missing soldier, changed. Atleast that is my theory. I think it would have to have a serious resistance to the cold being that the Chinook crashed in the mountains of Colorado, and it will be one hell of a hike from the crash site to Boulder.

Umm... Ok... back to work!

[Blood & Ice Cream]

to me - the fact that a 'little one' crushed Captain Long is simply good tactics and further evidence of how intelligent they actually are

critically wound the leader of the human group = a slower and less effective fighting force, keeps the chinook on the ground longer, basically its a distraction because they then have to carry/drag her and not kill zombies whilst moving back to the chinook

[UndeadSweeper]

I am thinking the straps that are used to hold the Captain and the other soldier down are more like this...http://www.skedco.com/Military/casevac-tccc/sk-957. These types of straps are standard Army issue.

They didn't say that Captain was changed. She was dead but still strapped to the litter. The Little Big One is a different female than the Captain.

The only thing, wouldn't Michael/Kimmet would have plan for this, have stronger restraints? So I guess we are said that there wasn't any turned in the Chinook until the ADLO (Advanced Little One) came in.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I GOT IT!!! The Chinook went down about 30minutes West/Southwest of Boulder. West/Southwest of Boulder is Breckenridge and Vail. What is in Breckenridge and Vail, CO? Ski Resorts! The Zombies are not going to invade Boulder. They want to get to Breckenridge and Vail for the 1st Annual Zombie Skiing and snowboarding competition. Makes sense. They are headed to their competition and only attack the soldiers cause the soldiers drew first blood by shooting two of them from the air.

I'm still thinking about Cheyenne Mountain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_Mountain). Isn't that where that nuclear bunker is? I'm hoping the story includes something from that place. There has to be a military presence of some sort there.

[wh33t]

Wow, congrats KC on the advertisement for the Walking Dead!

[Penguine]

Cheyenne Mountain is at Peterson AFB which is in Colorado Springs, Co. 100+ miles South of Boulder. Probably would have been a better place to set-up a safe zone then Boulder, CO but I doubt the military would allow civilians in to the mountain, no matter how much the SHTF.

[UndeadSweeper]

Cheyenne Mountain is at Peterson AFB which is in Colorado Springs, Co. 100+ miles South of Boulder. Probably would have been a better place to set-up a safe zone then Boulder, CO but I doubt the military would allow civilians in to the mountain, no matter how much the SHTF.

Is it because of the Star-gate being there? ;-)

[Triggernator]

Anyone else notice that the advance little ones seem to have the features of all the other specials blended together (smart ones brains, fast ones speed, jumpers jump, behemoths tough skin etc.) Just been thinking about it, would also explain why the behemoths are so damn tough, having extremely dense leathery skin.

[Hoff4D]

Did anyone else hear some new sounds from the improved little ones this week.
To me they kind of sound like some of the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, and almost like communication.

As I went to bed last night I thought to myself "Those little ones sounded just like Velociraptors in Jurassic Park....and the the raptors have big long nails...hunt in packs/hide with strategy..." Maybe we're onto something...

I've got it, the crack in the earth released million years old bacteria from the jurassic age, and is slowly morphing people back into dinosaurs. It's all cyclical!

[Adventureless_Hero]

Anyone else notice that the advance little ones seem to have the features of all the other specials blended together (smart ones brains, fast ones speed, jumpers jump, behemoths tough skin etc.) Just been thinking about it, would also explain why the behemoths are so damn tough, having extremely dense leathery skin.

^ I like this idea.

It was the Devil's Workshop that put the idea in my head.

[nikvoodoo]

Anyone else notice that the advance little ones seem to have the features of all the other specials blended together (smart ones brains, fast ones speed, jumpers jump, behemoths tough skin etc.) Just been thinking about it, would also explain why the behemoths are so damn tough, having extremely dense leathery skin.

Then add to it the numbers are the ones TOWTM got right. Sort of like a Super Solider. I like. I like.

This would be a nice combination of the Frankenzombie theory (which I hate with oh such much passion) and the idea that TOWTM is "breeding" a new form of zombie to be perfect. And like hero said...Devil's Workshop.

[Witch_Doctor]

As I went to bed last night I thought to myself "Those little ones sounded just like Velociraptors in Jurassic Park....and the the raptors have big long nails...hunt in packs/hide with strategy..." Maybe we're onto something...

I've got it, the crack in the earth released million years old bacteria from the jurassic age, and is slowly morphing people back into dinosaurs. It's all cyclical!

I was thinking along the same lines. Especially since the original Zombies freeze up in cold weather, their bites seem to be infectious, others have toughened skin. I could be cherry-picking but I see cold-blooded traits, venom, and tough leather armored/scaley-like skin. Reptilian traits.

Just a thought.

[UndeadSweeper]

Then add to it the numbers are the ones TOWTM got right. Sort of like a Super Solider. I like. I like.

This would be a nice combination of the Frankenzombie theory (which I hate with oh such much passion) and the idea that TOWTM is "breeding" a new form of zombie to be perfect. And like hero said...Devil's Workshop.

I think this is point more and more that The Tower's area of LA is going to get nuke. The Frankenzombie are only appear in this area. Every other place has simple and basic ones. The Colony have simple mob, Hawaii had more ferocious one, and even the section where Skittle had are normal one with behemoths, which could point to behemoths be a natural species not mod. one, but these one can be dealt with. The TOWTM need to be wipe out.

[Witch_Doctor]

We don't have much of a timeline on how fast Zombies freeze; Spc Robins mentions that the ones in his pictures froze overnight. So we can't say for sure if and to what extent the Advanced little one, uh... Inkling (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Little+Ones) will freeze.

[UndeadSweeper]

We don't have much of a timeline on how fast Zombies freeze; Spc Robins mentions that the ones in his pictures froze overnight. So we can't say for sure if and to what extent the Advanced littli one, uh... 'inkling' will freeze.

The way the skin was hardening it seem it will take a long time or not at all. Think about the Chinook was flying high and the ADLO was exposed for some time. It was still able to tear up and attack it, survive the crash, climb a tree and still able to attack the rescue crew.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I believe that the type of zombie Spec. Robbins was referring to were the "normal" type zombies that were roaming around Boulder. Those type are susceptible to freeze, however it seems very clear that the Advance Little Ones/Big Little Ones, or as Witch_Doctor called them, Inklings (fucking love it!) have a thick hide that prevents them from freezing quickly, if at all. Keep in mind the Inkling that was in the tree, #2, had waited some time in the cold after the Chinook crashed.


P.S. I move that Inkling be the adopted name for a full grown Little One. Fucking bad ass, simple name for them.

[Hoff4D]

Then add to it the numbers are the ones TOWTM got right. Sort of like a Super Solider. I like. I like.

This would be a nice combination of the Frankenzombie theory (which I hate with oh such much passion) and the idea that TOWTM is "breeding" a new form of zombie to be perfect. And like hero said...Devil's Workshop.


I'm also on board with this, being that I didnt like the frankenzombie theory either, but this is a good/interesting compromise.


My theory based off some of my previous comments and replies to them, is #2 is not dead, more like unconcious-Alien-taken-to-Area-51-in-Independence-Day style. He'll (sorry, SHE'll) get transported in, hidden, brought in with Tanya somehow...most likely careof Carl and Puck assisting behind Kimmet's back. Once it's in the room with Tanya...locked in of course, it will finish out the grandios wake-up, killing Tonya just before they lay waste to it. They all go inside and discover the strides Tanya made with the toe/bone-marrow and Kimmet finally loses it realizing what he's up against and relieves himself from duty because the zeds had something hidden up their sleeves....This is what 'changed it all' according to Michael in the earlier episode to open this plot structure.

[LiamKerrington]

Question:
In #33-1 we have regulars showing up being attracted to KODI and killed by Michael and guys. They did this near Fort Irwin, where - as I assume - is pretty much the same cold weather like - for example - into the direction of Boulder. Wouldn't the comment of Specialist Robbin be kind of odd that cold weather freezes regulars then?
Or would the winter-weather in LA be so much different, like much colder, more Siberian-style then the Hawaiian weather conditions in Fort Irwin? Then Robbin's statement would be a lot more valid - naturally ...

Also I would like to get some confirmation of which Boulder we speak of ... Considering the flying range of a Chinook I'd say the Boulder-refugee-camp is near Las Vegas ...

All the best!
Liam

P.S.: Zombie-Ski-Contest => Big time LOL!

[LiamKerrington]

Frankenzombies => remind me of Nazi-Zombies ...

[Hoff4D]

Question:
In #33-1 we have regulars showing up being attracted to KODI and killed by Michael and guys. They did this near Fort Irwin, where - as I assume - is pretty much the same cold weather like - for example - into the direction of Boulder. Wouldn't the comment of Specialist Robbin be kind of odd that cold weather freezes regulars then?
Or would the winter-weather in LA be so much different, like much colder, more Siberian-style then the Hawaiian weather conditions in Fort Irwin? Then Robbin's statement would be a lot more valid - naturally ...

Also I would like to get some confirmation of which Boulder we speak of ... Considering the flying range of a Chinook I'd say the Boulder-refugee-camp is near Las Vegas ...

All the best!
Liam

P.S.: Zombie-Ski-Contest => Big time LOL!

Spec. Robbins photographed zombies were from a colder climate near boulder I believe, and the KODI killed zombies were near ft. Irwin, a much more mild climate in the winter time

[Penguine]

Temperature in Boulder is much different than that in the Mojave desert in California (Ft. Irwin). Question is... why would TOWTM be making Zeds that are resistant to cold weather? Does he know about Boulder some how or is he just preplaning?

[Adventureless_Hero]

Temperature in Boulder is much different than that in the Mojave desert in California (Ft. Irwin). Question is... why would TOWTM be making Zeds that are resistant to cold weather? Does he know about Boulder some how or is he just preplaning?

Perhaps the resistance to cold is a side effect. Maybe bullet-proof is what he was aiming for.


What is the Frankenzombie theory? That Pinstripes is using corpses to put pieces together to build zombies? Malarky!

I do think he is tampering with DNA or something; maybe even altering the zombie virus that originated in The Haze.

[UndeadSweeper]

Temperature in Boulder is much different than that in the Mojave desert in California (Ft. Irwin). Question is... why would TOWTM be making Zeds that are resistant to cold weather? Does he know about Boulder some how or is he just preplaning?

That a scary thought, but he may have scouts watch the area and noticing the incoming and debarking Chinook in the area.


What is the Frankenzombie theory? That Pinstripes is using corpses to put pieces together to build zombies? Malarky!

I do think he is tampering with DNA or something; maybe even altering the zombie virus that originated in The Haze.

I think he is messing with the DNA of the zombie, the noted that the skin starting hardening moment after be turned. And the soldiers would said something if the ADLO was piece together.


Perhaps the resistance to cold is a side effect. Maybe bullet-proof is what he was aiming for.

Wait that sound like what happen!

[LiamKerrington]

Thank you. So we don't speak of Boulder (Nevada) near Las Vegas?
Sorry for bothering. But comparing the climate tables of Fort Irwin California and Boulder Nevada they are pretty close to each other - temperature-wise ...
Maybe I should start considering poetic license a lot more ... ;)

All the best!
Liam

[Robzombie]

What is the Frankenzombie theory? That Pinstripes is using corpses to put pieces together to build zombies? Malarky!

I do think he is tampering with DNA or something; maybe even altering the zombie virus that originated in The Haze.

Bil Roberts (Ink), if you're assuming is the same as Mr Pinstripes, was a paranoid schizophrenic hitman for the "family", not a geneticist. And then if you we're thinking Mr Pinstripes is a different character (which I do not think so) and is a geneticist...then what the heck was he doing in the Tower, and not busy in his evil scientist comic-book lab deep under the city creating life with a few beakers, syringes, bunsen burners, and a heafty amount of unobtainium?

[Hoff4D]

Temperature in Boulder is much different than that in the Mojave desert in California (Ft. Irwin). Question is... why would TOWTM be making Zeds that are resistant to cold weather? Does he know about Boulder some how or is he just preplaning?

I'm still pretty hung up on the numbering system.

1)Does TOWTM mark his elite soldiers/successes? Or does he number them based on a batch number?

2)Do they somehow grow a number once turned (lol). Like does #2 bite/scratch some dude and they grow a #2 on their arm as well? Or does it just create INKLING (i like it too) offspring sans the number.

3) That said, in every run in with little ones only ONE of them had a number (I think) so...are they like infantry numbers. #2 makes his own #2 battalion moving north, #9 makes one moving west....etc.

4)And furthering that, are the numbered Little Ones able to get along, or would they fight among themselves? (ie created by #2, allegiances lie to #2 and would attack any created by #9...etc)

[Hoff4D]

Thank you. So we don't speak of Boulder (Nevada) near Las Vegas?
Sorry for bothering. But comparing the climate tables of Fort Irwin California and Boulder Nevada they are pretty close to each other - temperature-wise ...
Maybe I should start considering poetic license a lot more ... ;)

All the best!
Liam

Yea, they're talking about Boulder, CO

Refer to august 5th in the timeline here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Timeline&redirect=no

[Penguine]

Thank you. So we don't speak of Boulder (Nevada) near Las Vegas?
Sorry for bothering. But comparing the climate tables of Fort Irwin California and Boulder Nevada they are pretty close to each other - temperature-wise ...
Maybe I should start considering poetic license a lot more ... ;)

All the best!
Liam

No problem.. Boulder, Colorado. Much different weather come winter time. Irwin is in the desert and it does get cold, but no where near as cold as the mountains of Colorado.

[Robzombie]

I think Ink has just made them his generals so to speak. They are a different type of zombie, just like the rest of the specials, but they are the more powerful ones. He recognizes that and for ease of recognition he numbers them.

[Hoff4D]

I think Ink has just made them his generals so to speak. They are a different type of zombie, just like the rest of the specials, but they are the more powerful ones. He recognizes that and for ease of recognition he numbers them.

Yea, that would tie in to my question/point #3, where I said they seem to only have one numbered guy at a time (at least when we run into them) leading me to believe they're filling their own battalion lead by the numbered guy, and heading off in different directions/different missions.

This is one tactical pimp-ass zombie move

[nikvoodoo]

We've seen evidence that the Inklings get along with each other at least when they are small. There were two in the Reserve Base depot that attacked Angel and Kalani.

Hey remember how we wondered why that Behemoth was dying at the Army base? Wonder if it was dying after giving birth to a pair of Inklings.

[LiamKerrington]

Now, how asome is that? That detail slipped my mind ... Ok ... Guess what? I could go on with my climate concerns because the climate tables of Fort Irwin CA and Boulder CO show pretty close ... Nah! I stop that ... ;) the average Dec temperaur is like by 10°F different ... Not comparable ... Sorry for bothering ...
Probably the 32°F/ 0°C-mark (freezing point of water) or 39.2°F/ 4°C (point of highest density of water) my play a major role stopping the regulars ...

I wouldn't want to go as far as considering the little ones kind of "generals" or stuff ... My like speznaz or commandoes ... Keep in mind: Like the behemeoths you encounter them without having so much regulars around; instead the little ones act in small units like one or two of them, as I understand it ...

All the best!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

We've seen evidence that the Inklings get along with each other at least when they are small. There were two in the Reserve Base depot that attacked Angel and Kalani.

Hey remember how we wondered why that Behemoth was dying at the Army base? Wonder if it was dying after giving birth to a pair of Inklings.

Was it dying? I considered it sleeping until being shot in the head ...
But I did not follow you converstation about it.
Strikes me kind of *ugh* imagining the big ones giving birth to little-ones ... But some 'signs' seem to point at some kind of relation (strength, tough skin ...)

[Hoff4D]

We've seen evidence that the Inklings get along with each other at least when they are small. There were two in the Reserve Base depot that attacked Angel and Kalani.

Hey remember how we wondered why that Behemoth was dying at the Army base? Wonder if it was dying after giving birth to a pair of Inklings.

Yea, I was merely theorizing offspring of a certain number get along, as we've only seen evidence of one numbered guy per showing (I think, at least until someone cites a chapter where I'm wrong)

So in my theory, maybe one little one in the base was numbered (Number X for this example) and Number X bit skittle's step-brother Jolly Rancher, turned him into a little one, and they get along in that Number X is General X and Jolly Rancher is his soldier

I guess that sort of throws a lot of theory off tho...since it appears once a Little One turns someone, they go insta-Big Little One (Inkling)almost...so why would a little one bite SHRINK a regualr dude.....hmph.

I humbly withdraw my theory of Numbered's not getting along, as the army base almost certainly had to be two different numbered homebrews still in growing phase....The general theory still works, in that they don't become generals until full grown maybe.

[Adventureless_Hero]

We've seen evidence that the Inklings get along with each other at least when they are small. There were two in the Reserve Base depot that attacked Angel and Kalani.

Hey remember how we wondered why that Behemoth was dying at the Army base? Wonder if it was dying after giving birth to a pair of Inklings.

That is a disturbing image! LOL!

But I think that Angel and Kalani would have noticed something to point that out, like a severly ruptured anus on the Behemoth or an exploded abdomen or something.

I'm thinking that Behemoth was dying because it was a "faulty creation". It was big and powerful, but just not made to last. Batteries ran out, homeboy. When you run a powerhouse like a Behemoth you need tons of food. He probably starved or burned out his muscles in extreme fatigue. I'm thinking the Inklings are the final product of the Devil's Workshop and that is why they are numbered; unlike the Runners, Behemoths, and Jumpers.

[Hoff4D]

That is a disturbing image! LOL!

But I think that Angel and Kalani would have noticed something to point that out, like a severly ruptured anus on the Behemoth or an exploded abdomen or something.

I'm thinking that Behemoth was dying because it was a "faulty creation". It was big and powerful, but just not made to last. Batteries ran out, homeboy. When you run a powerhouse like a Behemoth you need tons of food. He probably starved or burned out his muscles in extreme fatigue. I'm thinking the Inklings are the final product of the Devil's Workshop and that is why they are numbered; unlike the Runners, Behemoths, and Jumpers.

I'm with you on the burnt out part. Giving birth end of spaceballs style would need to be noted by angel/kalani for sure. However, I still think there's more to the numbers. It's either a numbering system for where he's sending them/what their M.O.S. is, or it's a numbering system for the different traits he may have given the Inklings based on SLIGHT mutations. i.e. bullet resistance, breathing in water....flying pteradactyls.....You know, the usual.

I think I've cited 3 or 4 movies in the collective of my comments on this thread....need to quit that, lol

[Kc]

Boulder Co:
The December Mean Temperature is approx 30.0 degrees- Lows in the 20's.

Fort Irwin:
The December Mean Temperature is approx 48.0 degrees

That's a big difference.

[Penguine]

That is a disturbing image! LOL!

But I think that Angel and Kalani would have noticed something to point that out, like a severly ruptured anus on the Behemoth or an exploded abdomen or something.


Are you suggesting that the little ones are "ass babies"?

[Adventureless_Hero]

Are you suggesting that the little ones are "ass babies"?

Quite the contrary. I'm saying it is probably very unlikely they were birthed from the Behemoths.

Where the little ones came from, I have no clue. Maybe they were the first generation, spawned from test tubes. And the ONLY reason they were little is because of that fact. Every subsequent generation will be like those infected by the Inklings. They will be full grown humans who adopt the traits of a full grown Little One.

Maybe those first Little Ones, were the ONLY little ones, and so, they are the only ones to have a tattoo. Maybe?

[nikvoodoo]

Are you suggesting that the little ones are "ass babies"?

I was the one suggesting....mostly in jest because I don't think it's true. In my messed up world and theory, a behemoth gets wet and pops out two Inklings.

[Litmaster]

Wow, what a fun episode to listen to! I know I'm late to the party on this one... was too busy to post yesterday but still managed to listen to this episode 5 times now (3x on headphones, 2x in car). So quickly,


Awesome Sound, Dude!
This was probably my favorite episode so far from an audio quality standpoint. I loved everything, from the chopper blades to the engine whine, to the vocal quality shift when they guys put their comm. helmets on, to the sound of the M134 minigun... it was all just fucking awesome. Really, really well done. I'd like to hear how Kc got all those sounds and put them together.


Shit, Meet Fan
So we got a baddie on the loose, and soon Pvt. Grigg Longnails is going to be SPREADING THE LOVE all through Boulder, baby! Those dudes who are used to taking head-shots at snow-zombies this time of year are in for a rude awakening! I'm really pleased to see the zombies re-assert themselves as the real villains of this story, rather than the Mallers.


Tony Robbins
Did anyone else get the impression that Anthony Robbins actually does sound like self-help guru Tony Robbins... especially when he is speaking through the comm. helmet? How much did you pay for that cameo, Kc? :cool: 2152



My Zombie's Dad Can Kick the Shit Out of Your Zombie's Dad
No offense to Walking Dead fans, but Kc's zombies would SHRED THE SHIT out of those stupid, sluggish, Romeroesque pussies on the Walking Dead show. I mean... it's not even close. Especially throwing into the mix now that they are apparently becoming sub-zero operatives and BULLETPROOF. Whoo! This is awesome!

Somehow, I imagine these 'Little (Big) Ones' as something like ghoulish, whitened versions of the Ents from the LOTR series...

2151


Autopsy Scene?
I would love it if next episode were an autopsy scene back at Irwin... in some secret back-room somewhere. I hope Michael and the gang find something there that will eventually lead / compel them into an eventually confrontation with the source of this genetic zombified tinkering: Ink, baby!


So this episode was just fun, fun, fun for me.... just great entertainment all around. I could keep listening to the "SON OF A BIIIIIITCH!" and the "No, he's not turning... Uh, Yep! Yes, he is!" over and over. Great acting, guys.


Bring it on, baby! I'm fiiiiiired uuup!!!

[Adventureless_Hero]

I was the one suggesting....mostly in jest because I don't think it's true. In my messed up world and theory, a behemoth gets wet and pops out two Inklings.

And if they eat after midnight...


...which if you think about it is a bullshit rule because when does "after midnight" end? 6:00 a.m.? 12 noon? What the fuck? Why does Gizmo never turn into a gremlin?!

[Penguine]

Are we in for another Helicopter crash? The pilot mentions that they are lower than normal on fuel and when they touch down powers down the engines. I come to this conclusion because when Carl and Tony are running back to the chopper the engines can be heard spinning up. Then throughout the rest of the episode the engines can be heard still running, sucking more fuel.

[Robzombie]

Are we in for another Helicopter crash? The pilot mentions that they are lower than normal on fuel and when they touch down powers down the engines. I come to this conclusion because when Carl and Tony are running back to the chopper the engines can be heard spinning up. Then throughout the rest of the episode the engines can be heard still running, sucking more fuel.

I'm pretty sure the pilot was just saying that to tease Specialist Robbins and initiate some banter between them. It's a rescue mission, they wouldn't leave without adequate fuel and are most likely completely full. They would know when they were too far or just far enough to have to turn around. The engine is powered down but not shut down, in an instance like this it should be left running. I am surprised though that before touching down they did not circle the area a couple of times first.

[Penguine]

Makes sense. I was suprised they didn't cirlce once or twice also.

[Penguine]

After listening again, and again, and again I just realized I want to smack Michael with the "Stick of Obviousness." Carl says Pvt. Grigg is missing, found restraints but no body, Micheal asks how far the crash is from Boulder, and Puck says about 30 miles give or take, and Michael mentions the advanced big one as he argues with Kimmet, and never goes back to where Grigg might be. Umm, Michael, SEND YOUR BOYS TO LOOK FOR GRIGG!

[UndeadSweeper]

After listening again, and again, and again I just realized I want to smack Michael with the "Stick of Obviousness." Carl says Pvt. Grigg is missing, found restraints but no body, Micheal asks how far the crash is from Boulder, and Puck says about 30 miles give or take, and Michael mentions the advanced big one as he argues with Kimmet, and never goes back to where Grigg might be. Umm, Michael, SEND YOUR BOYS TO LOOK FOR GRIGG!

Maybe he hanging on to this Chinook?

[EpiEpee]

Perhaps the resistance to cold is a side effect. Maybe bullet-proof is what he was aiming for.


What is the Frankenzombie theory? That Pinstripes is using corpses to put pieces together to build zombies? Malarky!

I do think he is tampering with DNA or something; maybe even altering the zombie virus that originated in The Haze.

I do think it's possible that cold resistance is just a side effect of thickening the skin, but it's also possible to get improved cold resistance in other ways too. For example, TOWTM could have mutated the inklings to have more brown fat, which generates heat in newborns and hibernating animals when they wake up through a special biochem pathway. Wouldn't really be that different from regular human phys if cold resistance were to be valued for some reason.

Maybe #2 just went into hibernation mode.....

Or maybe I'm just trying to use theoretical zombie phys. to help me study! :-)

[Witch_Doctor]

My Zombie's Dad Can Kick the Shit Out of Your Zombie's Dad
No offense to Walking Dead fans, but Kc's zombies would SHRED THE SHIT out of those stupid, sluggish, Romeroesque pussies on the Walking Dead show. I mean... it's not even close. Especially throwing into the mix now that they are apparently becoming sub-zero operatives and BULLETPROOF. Whoo! This is awesome!

Somehow, I imagine these 'Little (Big) Ones' as something like ghoulish, whitened versions of the Ents from the LOTR series...

2151


Bring it on, baby! I'm fiiiiiired uuup!!!

Ye ol smack hath been putteth down, oh 'Walking Dead'

Love the LOTR reference. It Reminded me that Saruman had bred a special line of 'White Hand' orcs.
2153

[LiamKerrington]

lol
It really depends on what source you choose ... Thank you Kc ... Depending on what source I choose I have varying information on climate data ... On wikipedia the average temperature of Barstow (California) and Boulder (Colorado) are even the same; yesterday I found several climate tables bringing up a difference of about 10°F, while your information ends up at nearly 20°F difference ... Sorry for riding this horse beyond death. I just want to have it a zombie as well ... ;)

Grigg: We have no confirmation on if he is dead and where he is moving to. The worst case scenario would be: little one heading towards Boulder; the funniest prediction: he is Skittles; a somewhat 'reasonable' explanation: he may be just freezing to death or roaming around without clue where to go ...

Yep: Michael nailed it: 30mi to Boulder, new game etc.; I just wonder why none did even think about raising kind of "orange alarm" or something ...

Blackhawk: What is the flying range of a Blackhawk; could a Blackhawk really do a 800mi (about the distance between the Chinook crash site and Fort Irwin) ride? And since it is just 30mi away from Boulder, wouldn't it be just the right thing to do: getting some more gas?

Big Ones giving birth to little-ones ... The more I think of it, the more I don't think so. I consider it a different breed and/ or race.

Does the thick skin protect the little ones against the cold weather? I don't think so. The Chinook was about 900mi away from LA, where the little-one grabbed on the chopper. Considering the huge distance it strikes me as odd that the crew did not recognize it earlier; I would have thought that the little one might have tried to get into the chopper way earlier, but it didn't. So it was on the chinook for quite an extended amount of time, while the Chinook flew through winter conditions, over many miles of Rocky Mountains; the chily time of the year and the additional cold from the airflow of the chopper would have freezed it much earlier. Yet it was not frozen, instead it was able to tore apart a Chinook, its electronics and the better part of the crew ... Either it is an endotherm bio-organism, or it is some kind of cold-resistant monster from any Fantasy RPG monster manual, or it just sprang out of some kind of DC- or Marvel-universe, which would explain its weird noises ...

All the best!
Liam

[Loyal Retainer]

Blackhawk: What is the flying range of a Blackhawk; could a Blackhawk really do a 800mi (about the distance between the Chinook crash site and Fort Irwin) ride? And since it is just 30mi away from Boulder, wouldn't it be just the right thing to do: getting some more gas?


Possibly, but not likely? The operational range of a Blackhawk is 1,380 miles (2,220 km) with external fuel tanks. As the crow flies it is 697 miles (1,115 km) from Irwin to Boulder. Let's subtract 30 miles so 667, making a round trip 1,334 miles (2,134 km). That 1,380 mile distance is also the ferrying distance meaning it doesn't take into account the added weight of troops or cargo so now we are really cutting it close. Add to it the fact they are searching for something meaning weaving back and forth to find the crash site and we are talking about making a round trip and coming back with fumes in the tank if not worse. If they didn't stop for fuel they might be having a rather unexpected landing well before they reach their destination. Sorry to nit-pick details Kc. :hsugh:

[Triggernator]

We've seen evidence that the Inklings get along with each other at least when they are small. There were two in the Reserve Base depot that attacked Angel and Kalani.

Hey remember how we wondered why that Behemoth was dying at the Army base? Wonder if it was dying after giving birth to a pair of Inklings.

Maybe it gave "birth" to Inklings, (love the name BTW) but maybe the Inklings attacked the behemoth as the behemoths are now "redundant" as they have the Inklings to replace them.

[Triggernator]

Also, M134 is a bit over kill for zombies...

[nikvoodoo]

Maybe it gave "birth" to Inklings, (love the name BTW) but maybe the Inklings attacked the behemoth as the behemoths are now "redundant" as they have the Inklings to replace them.

I take no credit for name. I'm just hoppin' on the bandwagon....it's a really kick ass name for them though! Much in the same way that there would be some really obvious damage if the little ones were birthed from the Behemoth, I'd imagine that there would be some noticable damage if two little one's had mauled the Behemoth at the Reserve base. I think with it being as big as it was, it dying has to be more in line with it starving to death.


Also, M134 is a bit over kill for zombies...

I think that it is just right ;)

[Penguine]

The Blackhawk left from Boulder, not Ft. Irwin. Micheal says Carl is in Boulder, then talks to Carl on the Sat phone.

Temp takes on the internet are BS. I know the temp tables for South Dakota say nothing about 100+° days, yet it has been that warm/hot for a LONG time. Trust me, the temps in Boulder in the winter are more then 10° colder the Ft. Irwin.

[UndeadSweeper]

Also, M134 is a bit over kill for zombies...

I won't mind one. Would make my name even more sweeter.

[Leedo2502]

Here is what stands out to me; Michael apparently has a network of people, like Carl, that report back to him and are able to be inserted into mission plans as the Michaels eyes and ears, and as shown in this episode owe their loyalty more to Michael than Kimmet. Last episode Michael and puck were talking about having "one of ours" in Boulder. Carl (and maybe more like him) are given sat phones and challenge codes when contacting him (Puck seemed suprised at the "Roman pillar fell on the fish). Given Robins' reaction to Carl having the Satphone it is way out of the ordinary for someone of his rank to have one. My question is does Kimmet know of the network or is Michael working on his own or in a "unless otherwise directed" fashion.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Here is what stands out to me; Michael apparently has a network of people, like Carl, that report back to him and are able to be inserted into mission plans as the Michaels eyes and ears, and as shown in this episode owe their loyalty more to Michael than Kimmet. Last episode Michael and puck were talking about having "one of ours" in Boulder. Carl (and maybe more like him) are given sat phones and challenge codes when contacting him (Puck seemed suprised at the "Roman pillar fell on the fish). Given Robins' reaction to Carl having the Satphone it is way out of the ordinary for someone of his rank to have one. My question is does Kimmet know of the network or is Michael working on his own or in a "unless otherwise directed" fashion.

I like to agree that there is a connection between Michael, Puck, and Carl. They seem to be more than minor players in the story, but not quite major characters, yet. As far as a secret group under Kimmet's nose, I don't feel it has developed into that yet. There are clues that it is headed in that direction though; Michaels comment about Kimmet filling his canteen with something other than water, the obvious fact that Kimmets order to send the Chinook to Boulder was a bad call. And now you have Spec. Robbins commenting that they are risking bringing a mauled corpse onto the Black Hawk because she is some "brass ass".

I'd say, like Durai, Kimmet may have been in good standing with his men, but his role as a leader is quickly deteriorating. I have no trouble envisioning a day when Kimmet gives an order, Michael disagrees, and the men stand behind our favorite Staff Sergeant. But at the moment, I think there aren't any organized groups. I think Puck's line, "one of our guys" was a reference to the fact that a soldier from Ft. Irwin was currently in Boulder.

[UndeadSweeper]

I like to agree that there is a connection between Michael, Puck, and Carl. They seem to be more than minor players in the story, but not quite major characters, yet. As far as a secret group under Kimmet's nose, I don't feel it has developed into that yet. There are clues that it is headed in that direction though; Michaels comment about Kimmet filling his canteen with something other than water, the obvious fact that Kimmets order to send the Chinook to Boulder was a bad call. And now you have Spec. Robbins commenting that they are risking bringing a mauled corpse onto the Black Hawk because she is some "brass ass".

I'd say, like Durai, Kimmet may have been in good standing with his men, but his role as a leader is quickly deteriorating. I have no trouble envisioning a day when Kimmet gives an order, Michael disagrees, and the men stand behind our favorite Staff Sergeant. But at the moment, I think there aren't any organized groups. I think Puck's line, "one of our guys" was a reference to the fact that a soldier from Ft. Irwin was currently in Boulder.

Is Kimmet going to stay on the sauce? I think this may push him out of the rank.

[Penguine]

Is Kimmet going to stay on the sauce? I think this may push him out of the rank.

I think that would all depend on if Capt. Long was his last living relative. If she was, I would say there is a high chance dude will keep the canteen full of his favorite spirit.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Is Kimmet going to stay on the sauce? I think this may push him out of the rank.

I'm thinking that with what happened to his niece he may rely on the drink a bit more. Though the fault isn't entirely his. Who is to say that the Chinook wouldn't have made it to Boulder had Inkling #2 not hitched a ride? And was the call to send the Black Hawk out to investigate a bad one? Spec. Robbins did say that they were "scrambled", which seems to imply they were forced to get on mission in a hurry. Perhaps lives could have been saved if it was deemed a recovery mission rather than a rescue? I dunno. I just have a feeling Kimmet's days as leader are coming to a close.

[Triggernator]

I think that it is just right ;)
Sorry keep forgetting you guys are american and are trained to go full auto at stuff...

us Brits (damn you pippin and your irritating accent of indeterminate origin) are trained to make every shot count...

[Hoff4D]

Sorry keep forgetting you guys are american and are trained to go full auto at stuff...

us Brits (damn you pippin and your irritating accent of indeterminate origin) are trained to make every shot count...

It's zombies. Spray and pray at all times. Every shot DOES count.

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm thinking that with what happened to his niece he may rely on the drink a bit more. Though the fault isn't entirely his. Who is to say that the Chinook wouldn't have made it to Boulder had Inkling #2 not hitched a ride? And was the call to send the Black Hawk out to investigate a bad one? Spec. Robbins did say that they were "scrambled", which seems to imply they were forced to get on mission in a hurry. Perhaps lives could have been saved if it was deemed a recovery mission rather than a rescue? I dunno. I just have a feeling Kimmet's days as leader are coming to a close.

Let's hope Michael isn't the one who need to give the peptalk:

Michael: Kimmet, it isn't that that bad. Come on. I have made a couple of mistake too. I lose my two fellow army buddies, Angel and Saul, who also happen to be Tanya's son. My Gf who leave me for Boulder also lose her close friend, who happen to be Saul's Gf. I think I also lose her cat too. A tower full of people, that include Tanya's nephew, Paul, that I mistaking for PimpZombie, and Burt. Piss off any a group of prisoners and an entire colony. Oh yeah and that guy at the waterwork but I think that Skittle guy may be still alive. Wait what was I talking about? Hmm.. do you have drinks for two?

[Triggernator]

It's zombies. Spray and pray at all times. Every shot DOES count.

No, only the ones that hit the head count, so emptying your mag at them to get maybe 2 kills means you have a 15 to 1 bullets to kill ratio. Accurate double taps could push that down to 2 to 1 or 4 to 1. My money is that is more effective and will keep you alive longer, spray and pray wastes ammo.

[Hoff4D]

So the Little Ones turned Inklings....

Anybody decipher a timeline for how long (about) it took for these things to go from itty-bitty to holy-shitty? I'm just curious because once Inkling, they seem to take almost no time to turn, yet they stayed small for at least a few days, and while small did not exhibit these bullet-proof characteristics...My evidence for this is the fact that Bricks ripped an arm off one. Yea, Bricks is a BAMF, but i don't think he's torn any sheets of kevlar bare-handed

The reason I ask is to further the mutations theory of these guys by Ink/pimpasszombie/TOWTM....perhaps these things are a Charles Darwin wet-dream and are ever-evolving, at ridiculous rates. They were small, got big to more effectively kill prey. Jump higher once people stayed on rooftops so they could feast, run faster cuz people started mobilizing cars, developed thick skin for the cold (consequentially becoming bullet-RESISTANT so far), and perhaps the jumping has reached new bounds, as that helicopter was in the air for at least a little while before it got in, and even an intelligent ravenous beast, I think, would not wait til 5,000 feet to knock on the door....so maybe it got out ahead, and JUMPED onto the helicopter (or flew via zombie Pteradactyls)

[Hoff4D]

No, only the ones that hit the head count, so emptying your mag at them to get maybe 2 kills means you have a 15 to 1 bullets to kill ratio. Accurate double taps could push that down to 2 to 1 or 4 to 1. My money is that is more effective and will keep you alive longer, spray and pray wastes ammo.

Yea, in truth, you're right, but when you're dealing with the potentially thick hyde this thing has....best to be more than doubly-sure.

[UndeadSweeper]

No, only the ones that hit the head count, so emptying your mag at them to get maybe 2 kills means you have a 15 to 1 bullets to kill ratio. Accurate double taps could push that down to 2 to 1 or 4 to 1. My money is that is more effective and will keep you alive longer, spray and pray wastes ammo.

Not if you are sherd them to pieces. An immovable zombie is still a downed zombie.

[Hoff4D]

Not if you are sherd them to pieces. An immovable zombie is still a downed zombie.

Even moreso, CJ proved we can bleed 'em out. These are not your daddy's Romero-headshot-only Zeds

[Triggernator]

Not if you are sherd them to pieces. An immovable zombie is still a downed zombie.

Don't forget though, with an M134 your firing 33.3 to 100 rounds per second vs my 4 to 6 rounds per second. And mine would be dead vs yours who can still bite your ankles potentially.

[Triggernator]

Yea, in truth, you're right, but when you're dealing with the potentially thick hyde this thing has....best to be more than doubly-sure.

That depends more on the rounds your firing over the volume of rounds.

[Penguine]

How do you fire .3 rounds? :)

[Triggernator]

Even moreso, CJ proved we can bleed 'em out. These are not your daddy's Romero-headshot-only Zeds

Yeah but they gotta bleed out which takes time...

[Hoff4D]

Yeah but they gotta bleed out which takes time...

So you give 'em 33.3 -100 holes to bleed out of :bunker: :D

[LiamKerrington]

How do you fire .3 rounds? :)

You take Angel's rifle ...

[Triggernator]

How do you fire .3 rounds? :)

M134 fires 2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute....

[Penguine]

Were they shooting at her head? I dont think so. Seems like although everyone knows headers kill they still continue to shoot center mass. Now I can understand doing that if shooting center mass is knocking them down, but now that zombie girl is bullet resistant why not just start making all head shots? Sure it is harder to hit the head, but if shooting 15 times in the chest to get 3 through to maybe knock it down, or shooting 15 times at the head and get 1 or 2 to kill it, I would work on head shots.

[LiamKerrington]

Well, I am not so used to guns ... But I'd say aiming with the M134 might be kind of a challenge - especially when it comes to shooting heads, unless these are bloated to some degree ...

[Penguine]

M134 fires 2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute....

I know. I was just making a joke, ya know, like when they say the average family has 1.3 kids. Sometimes math is stupid. You can't have .3 of a kid, just like you can't fire .3 of a bullet. And yes, the output of a minigun is stupidly high, but to break it down to rounds per second is silly. Who cares how many per second?


Well, I am not so used to guns ... But I'd say aiming with the M134 might be kind of a challenge - especially when it comes to shooting heads, unless these are bloated to some degree ...

LOL... headshots with a minigun would be messy! I'm talking with their M-16/M-4's that they are carrying. The everyday soldier gun.

[Triggernator]

I would recommend changing M134 for a GMG/Mk19. 40mm full auto grenade death wins every time and outside of a UGL the rounds are not fired that often so if you have them you might as well blow the crap out of Zacks with them.

*edit GMG fire 40x53 mm which is different to the 40x46mm fired by the M203. Not same ammo so you can use it up firing from the GMG.

[Penguine]

Problem with the mk19 is the rounds. The M134 uses belts of 1500, 3000, or 4500 rounds. The MK19 holds a box of either 32 or 48. I think I would stick with the M134. Oh.. and I do not think the MK19 can/has ever been mounted as a crew served weapon from a Blackhawk.

[Triggernator]

40x53 mm grenades have a kill radius vs a 7.62 NATO so they don't need as many per mag to get the same amount of kills.
Also, we Brits don't use the UH-60 so I don't know what you can mount on them but ever heard of duct tape?

[Cabbage Patch]

40x53 mm grenades have a kill radius vs a 7.62 NATO so they don't need as many per mag to get the same amount of kills.
Also, we Brits don't use the UH-60 so I don't know what you can mount on them but ever heard of duct tape?

This takes you back to the headshot issue. MK-19 grenades kill primarily with shrapnel, so you're not guaranteed headshots. That raises the question of whether it can produce an immediate kill on a zombie, particularly an "inkling". In contrast, a minigun kills with bullet hits. Both impart trauma damage, but the gross energy impact of 7.62mm bullets, especially multiple hits, is almost always going to be much greater from that of shrapnel, especially from a small grenade.

[Cabbage Patch]

I do not think the MK19 can/has ever been mounted as a crew served weapon from a Blackhawk.

A 40mm grenade launcher, predecessor to the MK19, was used in the chin turret of the original AH-1 Cobra gunship, mounted alongside a minigun. It wasn't successful as a helicopter weapon, mainly because the grenades have short range and fly comparatively slowly. Rockets and guns proved more efficient, and allow the helicopter to maneuver more aggressively while firing.

[Triggernator]

40x53mm has a kill radius of 5m and an injury radius of 15m. That will mangle most zombies in the area and at least seriously maim them. But more effective than trying to shoot the same area with rounds from a M134

[Triggernator]

Meh they clearly need an Apache to go zombie hunting, fletchette rockets will deal with zombies... 30mm cannon will finish off anything still twitching

[Adventureless_Hero]

So the Little Ones turned Inklings....

Anybody decipher a timeline for how long (about) it took for these things to go from itty-bitty to holy-shitty? I'm just curious because once Inkling, they seem to take almost no time to turn, yet they stayed small for at least a few days, and while small did not exhibit these bullet-proof characteristics...My evidence for this is the fact that Bricks ripped an arm off one. Yea, Bricks is a BAMF, but i don't think he's torn any sheets of kevlar bare-handed

The reason I ask is to further the mutations theory of these guys by Ink/pimpasszombie/TOWTM....perhaps these things are a Charles Darwin wet-dream and are ever-evolving, at ridiculous rates. They were small, got big to more effectively kill prey. Jump higher once people stayed on rooftops so they could feast, run faster cuz people started mobilizing cars, developed thick skin for the cold (consequentially becoming bullet-RESISTANT so far), and perhaps the jumping has reached new bounds, as that helicopter was in the air for at least a little while before it got in, and even an intelligent ravenous beast, I think, would not wait til 5,000 feet to knock on the door....so maybe it got out ahead, and JUMPED onto the helicopter (or flew via zombie Pteradactyls)

I don't think they evolved based off of thier surroundings. That would require multiple generations breeding with traits that kept the better suited ones alive. Evolving sudden changes like that isn't Darwinian, but more Lamarckian. Even so, my guess is that neither are the case. The Little Ones appear to have been created or came from somewhere. Where? I have no clue? For all I know Pinstripes grew them in a test tube, mixed zombie blood with super baby blood, or something. But once the original batch of Little Ones came to exist, I believe they grew up at a slow rate.

We witnessed them as being little all the way up until the assault on the Ice Rink by the Mallers (that's based off my memory, correct me if we've seen Little Ones in the story beyond that point). So presumably, the original batch of tattooed Little Ones have had months (from about August to November) to grow into this full sized Inklings. My guess is that the original batch of tattooed and numbered Inklings took those months to grow up. But if bitten by one, the change to an inkling is almost instant (instant being 24 hours maybe?).

Also, I think the Little One's possessed some of thier adult counterpart traits, just in a weaker form. Sure Bricks severed ones arm, but I think he used the truck door as a sort of axe to repeatedly slam it on the Little One's arm until it severed. But prior to that, Lizzy narrates that Tardust shot at the Little One but only managed to piss it off. Does this mean he shot it but didn't pierce it's skin, or did he shoot at it and annoy it. Can't tell. Maybe the Little Ones had tough skin, but it wasn't until they were a full grown Inkling that they possessed this very noticeable thick hide.

-also, in regards to the spray and pray/one shot, one kill discussion: I shoot about 20 to 40 million per milliliter but it only takes one to get the job done...just saying.

[Hoff4D]

I don't think they evolved based off of thier surroundings. That would require multiple generations breeding with traits that kept the better suited ones alive. Evolving sudden changes like that isn't Darwinian, but more Lamarckian. Even so, my guess is that neither are the case. The Little Ones appear to have been created or came from somewhere. Where? I have no clue? For all I know Pinstripes grew them in a test tube, mixed zombie blood with super baby blood, or something. But once the original batch of Little Ones came to exist, I believe they grew up at a slow rate.

We witnessed them as being little all the way up until the assault on the Ice Rink by the Mallers (that's based off my memory, correct me if we've seen Little Ones in the story beyond that point). So presumably, the original batch of tattooed Little Ones have had months (from about August to November) to grow into this full sized Inklings. My guess is that the original batch of tattooed and numbered Inklings took those months to grow up. But if bitten by one, the change to an inkling is almost instant (instant being 24 hours maybe?).

Also, I think the Little One's possessed some of thier adult counterpart traits, just in a weaker form. Sure Bricks severed ones arm, but I think he used the truck door as a sort of axe to repeatedly slam it on the Little One's arm until it severed. But prior to that, Lizzy narrates that Tardust shot at the Little One but only managed to piss it off. Does this mean he shot it but didn't pierce it's skin, or did he shoot at it and annoy it. Can't tell. Maybe the Little Ones had tough skin, but it wasn't until they were a full grown Inkling that they possessed this very noticeable thick hide.

-also, in regards to the spray and pray/one shot, one kill discussion: I shoot about 20 to 40 million per milliliter but it only takes one to get the job done...just saying.

Excellent break down. I was just trying to throw out other ideas to get the wheels turning. Good call on the Darwin/Lamarck correction, but being that they are presumably some sort of genetic mutation, I was proposing that they ARE 'evolving' within in a generation. Still, your argument stands

[Adventureless_Hero]

Excellent break down. I was just trying to throw out other ideas to get the wheels turning. Good call on the Darwin/Lamarck correction, but being that they are presumably some sort of genetic mutation, I was proposing that they ARE 'evolving' within in a generation. Still, your argument stands

Thanks mate! I'm sorry if I came off sounding like, "Oh look at me, I know the difference between words!" Totally didn't mean it. But yeah, I get what you mean; these Inklings are something unlike nature has seen before. I am going to be floored if we find out they are the result of only The Haze. There has to be a hand of meddling there; whether it's military, psychotic geneticist turned zombie king, or whatever!

[UndeadSweeper]

Excellent break down. I was just trying to throw out other ideas to get the wheels turning. Good call on the Darwin/Lamarck correction, but being that they are presumably some sort of genetic mutation, I was proposing that they ARE 'evolving' within in a generation. Still, your argument stands

My only issue with this is, why hasn't any the other zombies evolve as well? Only the PimpZombie ones are changing.

[Robzombie]

My only problem with that is it just seems kinda "comic book-ish" to me, which for the level and degree of reality put into the story would be just too hard to swallow. Like the geneticist, or terrorist group thing, or so many other ideas (excluding the growth and mutation stuff), I just can't buy into most if not any of them. The simplest and most believable idea to me is that this shit just happened, and now they gotta deal with it, maybe never having found out exactly what caused it except for best guesses, and by the end everybody's just gotta start over and get on with their lives having collectively experienced a near extinction event. That doesn't mean some crazy shit isn't going to happen from now till then.

[Witch_Doctor]

Sorry keep forgetting you guys are american and are trained to go full auto at stuff...

us Brits (damn you pippin and your irritating accent of indeterminate origin) are trained to make every shot count...

:cool:

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

little-ones do not mutate from one state into another; it is not like changing from human to zombie and done. As Glenn pointed out at the elementary school: they keep changing, at least for quite a while.
What, if the type of "little-one-infection" is dependant on the level of the "little-one-zombie-grade"? Two examples with the same little-one:
- little-one #1 is small yet, has no super-skin and smells like lemmon, because it is just 1 hour old; it harms a human => infected human becomes a little-one of this small, no super-skin and lemmon-smell type;
- but little-one #1 evolves, and after a day it is huge, has kevlar-skin and smells like the average zed, and it wounds a human => infected human becomes a little-one of this 'newly evolved' type.

That could (maybe would) explain why Saul had little trouble with dealing with his little-one at the elementary school, while the blackhawk crew whitnessed a little-one being so stubborn in going down. Also this ever-changing Zed-factor would not rely on ongoing experiments; so it would be comparable with the ever-changing HIV ...

Amendment to this little-one-theory:
This would also raise one specific question: does the process of 'evolving mutation' follow a fixed pattern, or is it kind of out of control? If there is a fixed pattern to it, then the infected human in the first example would change into a little-one with kevlar-skin and stuff over the time as well; but if the latter case is true, then the human in the first example could change into a completely different little-one-type then the poor bastard that is infected in the second example - meaning: one little one produces different types of offspring depending on its state of own evolution, if not even regardless of that state. This could/ would be an explanation why we have different little-ones so far ...
Benefit for Zeds: You cannot create a safe plan to fight these creatures ...
/amendment ends

About the general killing spree-theories on zombies:
I am not so sure if shrappnel-based weapon systems with area effects would take down zeds in huge numbers, but at best only in slightly bigger numbers. Several times we learned about regulars, Ink, little-ones and behemoths taking wounds to their bodies not dying, even not caring about the wounding. In the case of Ink we also know that he was shot in his heart (according to what Burt mentions in #11), and he was not stopped.
Now, my point is: Shrappnel might kill in two cases - either by litteraly exploding the soft target or by critically harming important inner organs. This means that a single shrappnel shot/ explosion won't take down as many Zeds as it would do with humans.
This theory is limited by the one-time situation in which Burt and Michael deployed a claymore mine in front of The Tower and killed a rather huge number of Zeds (no numbers mentioned) with it; but I think that one claymore dishes out a much stronger explosion then explody-things mounted under an assault-rifle, right?
Edit: I had to think of "Yonkers" in 'World War Z' (Max Brooks), where the US-Army had one of its darkest hours ... /edit ends

All the best!
Liam

tl;rd

[Hoff4D]

My only problem with that is it just seems kinda "comic book-ish" to me, which for the level and degree of reality put into the story would be just too hard to swallow. Like the geneticist, or terrorist group thing, or so many other ideas (excluding the growth and mutation stuff), I just can't buy into most if not any of them. The simplest and most believable idea to me is that this shit just happened, and now they gotta deal with it, maybe never having found out exactly what caused it except for best guesses, and by the end everybody's just gotta start over and get on with their lives having collectively experienced a near extinction event. That doesn't mean some crazy shit isn't going to happen from now till then.

I understand the refusal to accept on those grounds, however, whatever theory you subscribe to, the Inklings have a number on them...I can accept DNA mutations via some biological release of the planet itself having resulted with NO human interaction (or whatever reason you believe having nothing to do with human input), but a number on the skin necessitates human intervention, IMO

[Robzombie]

I understand the refusal to accept on those grounds, however, whatever theory you subscribe to, the Inklings have a number on them...I can accept DNA mutations via some biological release of the planet itself having resulted with NO human interaction (or whatever reason you believe having nothing to do with human input), but a number on the skin necessitates human intervention, IMO

No, in the The Devils Workshop it was pretty obvious that Ink was grooming (not mutating or genetically altering) zombies, including sharpening of nails and tatooing, thats where the numbers came from.

[Adventureless_Hero]

No, in the The Devils Workshop it was pretty obvious that Ink was grooming (not mutating or genetically altering) zombies, including sharpening of nails and tatooing, thats where the numbers came from.

True, but the fact that that workshop exists says something. Did he manage to round up ALL the Little Ones that came to naturally exist and then tattoo them for his record keeping? Or did he have a hand in their creation. A detail that always raised my eyebrows is the fact that one of the rooms in that workshop had a bloody bed. I have to go back and make sure I'm not making up the fact that I believe it looked crushed. But I do recall the door jam to that room was broken, as though something big had passed through. So I think we can surmise that Ink possibly took a normal sized being into the room, and a Behemoth exit.

That kind of evidence leads me to believe he is messing around with whatever soup creates these zombies. He's tweaking the recipe or something. So I think his work goes deeper than trimming nails and tattooing.

[Robzombie]

Ink, formerly known as Bill Roberts was an enforcer for &quot;the Family&quot;. He's a paranoid schizophrenic that was charged for murder and locked up at the mental health facilty by that hospital...he's not...

[Hoff4D]

No, in the The Devils Workshop it was pretty obvious that Ink was grooming (not mutating or genetically altering) zombies, including sharpening of nails and tatooing, thats where the numbers came from.

I hear ya, and we're each entitled to our own speculation, no matter how sound an argument the prehistoric haze is turning everyone into zombie dinosaurs, particularly pterodactyls, is.....there's more ideas.

But I think Ink has to have more influence than merely tattooing/grooming the special ones. There's got to be a bigger reason as to why he's seemingly got control over them, again, IMO. But it IS possible he's just the most intelligent one and it's pack mentality to listen to the alpha I suppose.

[Robzombie]

I think the "little ones" were originally babies from the hospital nursury. A human baby is going through the stage of its most rapid growth in its lifetime, naturally being at that stage and getting the virus or whatever it is...who knows what you'll get. I bet that the numbers might not even be Inks identifiers but the baby identifiers put on by the nursing staff. I might also guess that these numbers are not permanant and will rub or wash off. I know tags are placed on babies (ours had them) but perhaps some hospitals use non permanent markings in addition as a fail safe identifier.

These numbers are on the arms correct, and a little hard to read? The placement is consistent which tells me that there may be a system behind it and the legability is due to the skin being stretched from growth or even partly worn off.

[Adventureless_Hero]

An enforcer? Did they specify that? I need to go back an listen. I could have sworn that he was just a mass murderer. I'm pretty sure they didn't mention ties to &quot;the family&quot; but I've been wrong...

[Adventureless_Hero]

I think the "little ones" were originally babies from the hospital nursury. A human baby is going through the stage of its most rapid growth in its lifetime, naturally being at that stage and getting the virus or whatever it is...who knows what you'll get. I bet that the numbers might not even be Inks identifiers but the baby identifiers put on by the nursing staff. I might also guess that these numbers are not permanant and will rub or wash off.

I strongly disagree.

[nikvoodoo]

I think the "little ones" were originally babies from the hospital nursury. A human baby is going through the stage of its most rapid growth in its lifetime, naturally being at that stage and getting the virus or whatever it is...who knows what you'll get. I bet that the numbers might not even be Inks identifiers but the baby identifiers put on by the nursing staff. I might also guess that these numbers are not permanant and will rub or wash off.

As a new parent, I have to say that I don't ever recall the hospital tattooing my baby. I recall them putting Baby Lo-Jack on her ankle along with an ID bracelet. I'd certainly hope her first tattoo was her decision and not that of some orderly who may have bad hand writing ;)

[Leedo2502]

Is it even clear in the KCverse that you need a headshot to kill the zombie? If CJ is confident in letting them bleedout it would seem that they have a working/necessary Cardiovascular system that is vulnerable to ballistic trauma.

[Leedo2502]

As a new parent, I have to say that I don't ever recall the hospital tattooing my baby. I recall them putting Baby Lo-Jack on her ankle along with an ID bracelet. I'd certainly hope her first tattoo was her decision and not that of some orderly who may have bad hand writing ;)

I don't know what Hospital you went to but when my daughter was born a few short months ago she got her vaccinations and mandatory neck tattoo.

[Robzombie]

As a new parent, I have to say that I don't ever recall the hospital tattooing my baby. I recall them putting Baby Lo-Jack on her ankle along with an ID bracelet. I'd certainly hope her first tattoo was her decision and not that of some orderly who may have bad hand writing ;)

I did say non-permanant.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I did say non-permanant.

Understandable. I don't know if the procedures are the same all over the world, but I do know that in the United States, and in California, a plastic bracelet is used, as well as a chart and label on the infant bassinet. The only ink applied to the children might be if the parents want the infants footprint. They also prick the bottom of the foot to check the blood. As far as I know, no ink is applied to the child's arm. Identifiers are bracelets and charts.

Another thing to consider is that the ink has been on these Inklings for months now. Considering that they have likely been in all sorts of weather and rummaging through grody stuff, those numbers should either be smeared, illegible, or completely gone.
That and the mention of the home made tattoo pen in the Devil's Workshop suggest they are permanent tattoos.

[Robzombie]

An enforcer? Did they specify that? I need to go back an listen. I could have sworn that he was just a mass murderer. I'm pretty sure they didn't mention ties to "the family" but I've been wrong plenty of times. I'll have to research this more. But if you are right, then I would readily agree that being both a hit man type and a geneticist seem unlikely. But if he's a doctor type turned crazy, I can easily picture him killing patients through experimentation. Again, I'll have to go back and listen to the TiVo blurb about Bill Roberts.

Actually yes you are right. It isn't specified that he's an enforcer. He was declared insane, convicted of multiple homicides, and the "family" was devastated. I think after listening to it, what, 2 years ago that the idea of him being an enforcere just stayed...I'm considering more now that he's also a member of the family...otherwise why would "the family" be so devastated??

[LiamKerrington]

Mandatory neck tattoo? Wtf ... ?
Although I don't stick with the idea that Bill Roberts / Ink might do some genetic/ bio-chemical/ medical engineering on his zeds, I hav no trouble in thinking of a madman that, also being a psycho, a killer and an insane madman, he might be able to do bio-engineering of whatever kind. It only depends on the time where the button was pushed making him a madman; if he was kind of educated or trained as this kind of engineering-dude before having become an Hannibal-Lecter-clone, he might be able to use his skills form his former life ... And unless zombie-ism does not stop him from using such skills, here you go: a psychic madman-zombie doin' zombie-engineering ... Why not?
Again: I don't of this as being solid, nor even valid for the WA-verse, but in other zombie-stories I could imagine something like this ...

All the best!
Liam

[Robzombie]

Understandable. I don't know if the procedures are the same all over the world, but I do know that in the United States, and in California, a plastic bracelet is used, as well as a chart and label on the infant bassinet. The only ink applied to the children might be if the parents want the infants footprint. They also prick the bottom of the foot to check the blood. As far as I know, no ink is applied to the child's arm. Identifiers are bracelets and charts.

Another thing to consider is that the ink has been on these Inklings for months now. Considering that they have likely been in all sorts of weather and rummaging through grody stuff, those numbers should either be smeared, illegible, or completely gone.
That and the mention of the home made tattoo pen in the Devil's Workshop suggest they are permanent tattoos.

Well yeah and that's what I've been saying all along...they were "inked" by Ink...but it was just with considering now that they might have been newborns at the hospital that the numbers may actually correspond to the bassinets and might really be the explanation for them, IDK....maybe Ink still did it and he numbered them according to the bassinets??

[Robzombie]

Mandatory neck tattoo? Wtf ... ?
Although I don't stick with the idea that Bill Roberts / Ink might do some genetic/ bio-chemical/ medical engineering on his zeds, I hav no trouble in thinking of a madman that, also being a psycho, a killer and an insane madman, he might be able to do bio-engineering of whatever kind. It only depends on the time where the button was pushed making him a madman; if he was kind of educated or trained as this kind of engineering-dude before having become an Hannibal-Lecter-clone, he might be able to use his skills form his former life ... And unless zombie-ism does not stop him from using such skills, here you go: a psychic madman-zombie doin' zombie-engineering ... Why not?
Again: I don't of this as being solid, nor even valid for the WA-verse, but in other zombie-stories I could imagine something like this ...

All the best!
Liam

You know what, I can kind of see it now... maybe on top of being insane or previous to it he was very intelligent. He went nuts, killed some people and there ya go...perhaps he was into some freaky shit and thats what made him go bonkers.

[nikvoodoo]

I'll relisten soon (if this podcast was an old audio tape...I'd have worn out the Tivo section by now....) for the semantics. I don't know that I have since we really learned about the nature of the families.

I wouldn't doubt this to be the case, though I wonder why would an organized crime family be devastated that one of their people got out of a murder trial by going into a psych ward... seems like that would be something they'd love to have happened. In fact...it's almost like something they'd pay to have happen.

I may still just be stuck in my original headspace for that moment, but I feel like the devastated families would be the victims families. I understand that's what we're supposed to imagine. I'm currently just having a hard time breaking out of it.

[Penguine]

...I do know that in the United States, and in California...

Thank you for proving that California is seperate from the United States! I always knew ya'll were just a tad different. :D

As for everything else, Ink could of very well been into genetics. Being that he is insane I would go so far as to say he might not even be a doc/former doc. Maybe just someone that used to read A LOT and then dabble with chemicals and things. Why else would he have all those funky looking tattoos? They have to mean something.

[Robzombie]

I'll relisten soon (if this podcast was an old audio tape...I'd have worn out the Tivo section by now....) for the semantics. I don't know that I have since we really learned about the nature of the families.

I wouldn't doubt this to be the case, though I wonder why would an organized crime family be devastated that one of their people got out of a murder trial by going into a psych ward... seems like that would be something they'd love to have happened. In fact...it's almost like something they'd pay to have happen.

I may still just be stuck in my original headspace for that moment, but I feel like the devastated families would be the victims families. I understand that's what we're supposed to imagine. I'm currently just having a hard time breaking out of it.

You just showed me how what might be obvious to some can be completely missed by others, certainly including me. It actually never occurred to me that from this statment "the family itself was devastated" (note: singular, not families) that it was the family of the victims being referenced here.

See, I'm glad we talked this out. Although differing in opinions at times, it's helped to challenge and even reconsider my assumptions and see the story perhaps a little clearer.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Thank you for proving that California is seperate from the United States! I always knew ya'll were just a tad different. :D

As for everything else, Ink could of very well been into genetics. Being that he is insane I would go so far as to say he might not even be a doc/former doc. Maybe just someone that used to read A LOT and then dabble with chemicals and things. Why else would he have all those funky looking tattoos? They have to mean something.

I'm from TEXAS! :zombiegun:

Maybe we are over thinking it. Does Ink have to be a geneticist or some sort of scientist? What if he just discovered some weird biological formation created by the Haze that he sticks on someone's face and it craps ooze into the victims mouth that alters their biological make-up. Think Aliens; he sticks a face hugger on you and it pumps you full of Gaia's steroids, turning you into a Behemoth, Inkling, Jumper, Runner... I dunno. It sounds far fetched, but maybe the simple answer is he just mixed zombie blood with shit he found in The Haze and poof: biological benefits.

?

[Penguine]

I'm from TEXAS! :zombiegun:

Maybe we are over thinking it. Does Ink have to be a geneticist or some sort of scientist? What if he just discovered some weird biological formation created by the Haze that he sticks on someone's face and it craps ooze into the victims mouth that alters their biological make-up. Think Aliens; he sticks a face hugger on you and it pumps you full of Gaia's steroids, turning you into a Behemoth, Inkling, Jumper, Runner... I dunno. It sounds far fetched, but maybe the simple answer is he just mixed zombie blood with shit he found in The Haze and poof: biological benefits.

?

Damn! Texas is ok.

Yeah I think this whole how did zombie "x" come in to existence is getting a little crazy. Unless KC wants to say his thoughts on it it is all speculation, just like watching every TV show or what not. I watched an off the wall movie on the SciFi channel last night called Morlocks. It explained where the Morlocks came from but not the other "creatures", and it was supposedly only 68 years in the future. Sometimes you just have to roll with the story and not get to over analytical.

[Robzombie]

Understandable. I don't know if the procedures are the same all over the world, but I do know that in the United States, and in California, a plastic bracelet is used, as well as a chart and label on the infant bassinet. The only ink applied to the children might be if the parents want the infants footprint. They also prick the bottom of the foot to check the blood. As far as I know, no ink is applied to the child's arm. Identifiers are bracelets and charts.


I hear ya, my four kids got a plastic ankle bracelet, no tatoos or anything.

Aren't your hospitals private, which would mean to me that not all procedures or processes are federally or state mandated and regardless, even a tiny procedure such as putting a number on a babies wrist with non permanant ink or feltpen might be something that the nursing unit at this hospital just does - not that I'm necesarily sticking to this idea, but I think it's plausable.

[Penguine]

Not all are private, and remember that the story is set in the United States. What does this mean? Well, baby comes out the shoot, is cleaned, docs do to the baby what docs do, then hand it to the mother. Mother is all happy, then they take baby to the nursery. While in the nursery a nurse takes a black felt tip marker and writes "3" on the arm to signify that this baby goes to bassinette 3. Couple hours later they bring the baby back to the mother and she notices the 3 on the arm and flips out. Husband calls an attorney and they end up sueing the hospital, the nurse, the felt tip pen manufacturer, etc, etc, etc. So basically no hospital in their right mind would write a number on a newborns arm. The US is all about lawsuits and people wanting easy money. It's sad really. But hey, such is our country.

[clem131]

I had some trouble understanding things in this episode.
1) So, the LO was hanging on the helicopter for roughly 4 hours and a half and only after that time he attacked opening the helicopter like a sardines can?
2) I would really appreciate some kind of schema of who was in the Black Hawk and who was in the Chinook. O_o. I really got turned around on that, and on who gets off the BH, and on who of those turns in a LO, and on who was in restrains besides Kimmet's niece and now isn't anymore...

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,


I had some trouble understanding things in this episode.
1) So, the LO was hanging on the helicopter for roughly 4 hours and a half and only after that time he attacked opening the helicopter like a sardines can?


Your second question I won't answer, 'cause then I had to kill myself after having killed you ... *g*
About Q1:
Well, this made me think and wonder a lot, too. I came up with three different ideas:
a) In LA the LO grabbed on the chopperand did not care for such a long time;
b) in LA the LO grabbed on the chopper, evolved and mutated for this amount of time in order to be strong enough for wripping the chopper apart; OR
c) the LO did not grab on in LA, but jumped onto the chopper, because it already was about 30mi next to Boulder and it heard the chopper flying above its head ...

All the best!
Liam

[Robzombie]

Maybe the timing of the initial attack can be sync'd with the time that comms were cut-off. The part where they are reporting to Michael and Puck...althougth this is not during the first sitrep back but some time later. After the attack it might also have taken awhile for it to actually go down. Also, the chinook getting torn apart as it did may have happened on the ground. There were four punctures around the wheel well, which, idk, might have been enough to take out comms and other electrical forcing it to crash land, upon where the creature not knowing how to use door handles ripped into it.

[Penguine]

I had some trouble understanding things in this episode.
2) I would really appreciate some kind of schema of who was in the Black Hawk and who was in the Chinook. O_o. I really got turned around on that, and on who gets off the BH, and on who of those turns in a LO, and on who was in restrains besides Kimmet's niece and now isn't anymore...

I Had this written down yesterday but threw it out cause I was keeping track for just myself. *digs through desk garbage can* Found it!

Ok, lets start on the ground: Fowler, Grigg, and Long - Fowler gets killed heading toward the Chinook, Long goes back for the map and then get squished. This leads us to the Chinook...

On the Chinook: Pilot, Co-Pilot, Navigator (Minimal crew) - Long (strapped down), Grigg (strapped down). I'm thinking that the Navigator got off his station and strapped them down.

The Chinook crashes after the Big Little One opens it up. This leaves the pilot dead on impact, two others (co-pilot and navigator) getting cut down by the mini-gun, Long dead and partially snacked on, and Grigg missing.

The Blackhawk has the crew (pilot, co-pilot, nav), Anthony, Carl, and a few other non-importants. Anthony and Carl kill all with the excpetion of Grigg who is missing.

Hope that helps.

[Hoff4D]

I had some trouble understanding things in this episode.
1) So, the LO was hanging on the helicopter for roughly 4 hours and a half and only after that time he attacked opening the helicopter like a sardines can?
2) I would really appreciate some kind of schema of who was in the Black Hawk and who was in the Chinook. O_o. I really got turned around on that, and on who gets off the BH, and on who of those turns in a LO, and on who was in restrains besides Kimmet's niece and now isn't anymore...

That's sort of what my intiial question was, once people start turning, I get a bit confused as to how many turned, 2 or 3, and if they all came off the BH

[Kc]

Possibly, but not likely? The operational range of a Blackhawk is 1,380 miles (2,220 km) with external fuel tanks. As the crow flies it is 697 miles (1,115 km) from Irwin to Boulder. Let's subtract 30 miles so 667, making a round trip 1,334 miles (2,134 km). That 1,380 mile distance is also the ferrying distance meaning it doesn't take into account the added weight of troops or cargo so now we are really cutting it close. Add to it the fact they are searching for something meaning weaving back and forth to find the crash site and we are talking about making a round trip and coming back with fumes in the tank if not worse. If they didn't stop for fuel they might be having a rather unexpected landing well before they reach their destination. Sorry to nit-pick details Kc. :hsugh:

Yeah, Blackhawk wasn't from Irwin. Done the math on this over and over ;)

"1) So, the LO was hanging on the helicopter for roughly 4 hours and a half and only after that time he attacked opening the helicopter like a sardines can?"

Yup.

[Hoff4D]

I Had this written down yesterday but threw it out cause I was keeping track for just myself. *digs through desk garbage can* Found it!

Ok, lets start on the ground: Fowler, Grigg, and Long - Fowler gets killed heading toward the Chinook, Long goes back for the map and then get squished. This leads us to the Chinook...

On the Chinook: Pilot, Co-Pilot, Navigator (Minimal crew) - Long (strapped down), Grigg (strapped down). I'm thinking that the Navigator got off his station and strapped them down.

The Chinook crashes after the Big Little One opens it up. This leaves the pilot dead on impact, two others (co-pilot and navigator) getting cut down by the mini-gun, Long dead and partially snacked on, and Grigg missing.

The Blackhawk has the crew (pilot, co-pilot, nav), Anthony, Carl, and a few other non-importants. Anthony and Carl kill all with the excpetion of Grigg who is missing.

Hope that helps.

By kill 'all' I think/hope you mean the non-importants. And thats what I was trying to clarify quite a few posts back. The pilot stays on the chopper the whole time,even asks 'need help?' and they say no, stay there. So how many non-importants were there that got off? I think 3, but it may have been 2 and the 'crawling away' zombie was the first one that turned (Jackie?) who was not down for the count since he was mid-turn to ADLO, and started crawling away, necessitating more shots. Which made it seem like 3 crew were turned then killed?

[Penguine]

From what my ears are telling me Carl, Anthony, and three others got off the Blackhawk. Lets call one Bob, the other Bobby, and Bob Jr.. So Carl, Anthony, Bob, Bobby, and Bob Jr. get off the Blackhawk. This leaves the Blackhawk crew on the Blackhawk. They track to the tree's when they all run back to the BlackHawk and it sounds like 3 (Bob, Bobby, and Bob Jr) get injured. This leaves the Black Hawk crew, Anthony, and Carl still living with Anthony and Carl in clean-up mode.

[Penguine]

Was curious so I wanted to do some math. When Anthony shoots at the two uniformed biters from the air that string of shots last 5 seconds. When he shoots at the Inkling the string of shots last 5 seconds. If we say the M134 is shooting 4500-6000 rounds per minute this means that at 4500 rpm 375 rounds went out, and at 6000rpm 500 rounds went out. They spent between 750 - 1000 rounds to kill 3 Zeds. This works out to between 250 - 333.33 rounds per Zed. LOL.. there is the .3 of a bullet again! Of course this is if I did my math correctly.

[Cabbage Patch]

So, the LO was hanging on the helicopter for roughly 4 hours and a half and only after that time he attacked opening the helicopter like a sardines can?

Zombie finds a comfortable perch on the outside of the Chinook. 4½ hours into the flight it notices that they are flying over magnificent ski areas near Vail. Decides to go snowboarding. Mayhem ensues.


Was curious so I wanted to do some math. When Anthony shoots at the two uniformed biters from the air that string of shots last 5 seconds. When he shoots at the Inkling the string of shots last 5 seconds. If we say the M134 is shooting 4500-6000 rounds per minute this means that at 4500 rpm 375 rounds went out, and at 6000rpm 500 rounds went out. They spent between 750 - 1000 rounds to kill 3 Zeds. This works out to between 250 - 333.33 rounds per Zed. LOL.. there is the .3 of a bullet again! Of course this is if I did my math correctly.

Rate of fire on the M134 minigun is pre-set to fire either 2,000 rounds a minute or 6,000 rounds a minute.

[Penguine]

http://boeingblogs.com/bds/spotlight/Chinook_700.jpg

Lots of places for an Inkling to hang on.


Rate of fire on the M134 minigun is pre-set to fire either 2,000 rounds a minute or 6,000 rounds a minute.

Ive actually found quite a few different rates of fire for the M134. So I went with the middle RPM and the high-end RPM, but I do see the numbers you are referrencing also. Argh.. Wish I had access to the manual.

[Loyal Retainer]

http://boeingblogs.com/bds/spotlight/Chinook_700.jpg

Lots of places for an Inkling to hang on.



Ive actually found quite a few different rates of fire for the M134. So I went with the middle RPM and the high-end RPM, but I do see the numbers you are referrencing also. Argh.. Wish I had access to the manual.

Ask and ye shall receive. Dillion, the manufacturer, has it listed as a fixed rate of fire at either 3,000 or 4,000 rounds a minute.

http://www.dillonaero.com/docs/DADS0001_-_TITLE_AND_GUN_SPECS_.pdf

So a 5 second burst at 3,000 RPM = 250 rounds. At 4,000 RPM = 333.333 repeating of course.:D
Also, are you counting the time it's spinning up or from the time of the first report of the shot being fired? I'm too lazy to go listen to it again.

[Loyal Retainer]

Yeah, Blackhawk wasn't from Irwin. Done the math on this over and over ;)


Yeah someone else mentioned that as well. I should have know better to question your fact checking. You've been spot on with pretty much everything I've ever had a question about.

[Kc]

Yeah someone else mentioned that as well. I should have know better to question your fact checking. You've been spot on with pretty much everything I've ever had a question about.

no, no, question away! I would never discourage that.

[UndeadSweeper]

Here a question KC, what the headcount? How many were in the original Chinook? Rescue Chinook? How many turned? And how many are left? I couldn't follow how many people/zombie were there.

[Leedo2502]

no, no, question away! I would never discourage that.

In that case...I'm sure this has been asked but I must have missed it, do the zombies in the story only go down after a head shot or can they be blasted center mass and go down?

[Witch_Doctor]

I'm not sure of any amateur geneticists but..... <br />
Not all schizophrenics are murderers. <br />
Ted Kaczynski, AKA The Unibomber, suffers from schizophrenia. He's a math genius. <br />
John Nash, real life...

[clem131]

"1) So, the LO was hanging on the helicopter for roughly 4 hours and a half and only after that time he attacked opening the helicopter like a sardines can?"

Yup.

Juicy confirmation.

[Penguine]

Also, are you counting the time it's spinning up or from the time of the first report of the shot being fired? I'm too lazy to go listen to it again.

Umm... I totally forgot about spin-up time on the M134. Argh. Crap. So, with that said I went from when the barrel started spinning to the time it stopped spinning. That would probably drop a second/second and a half off the total time. Too lazy to recalculate. So lets just say somewhere between 250-300 rounds, unless someone else wants to do the math.

[Hoff4D]

From what my ears are telling me Carl, Anthony, and three others got off the Blackhawk. Lets call one Bob, the other Bobby, and Bob Jr.. So Carl, Anthony, Bob, Bobby, and Bob Jr. get off the Blackhawk. This leaves the Blackhawk crew on the Blackhawk. They track to the tree's when they all run back to the BlackHawk and it sounds like 3 (Bob, Bobby, and Bob Jr) get injured. This leaves the Black Hawk crew, Anthony, and Carl still living with Anthony and Carl in clean-up mode.

Thats about my best estimation as well....But I do think they call one "Jackie" or something like that, so it's Bob, Bobby, and Jackie. lol. I just wanted confirmation from someone else's ears

[Hoff4D]

I'm not sure of any amateur geneticists but.....
Not all schizophrenics are murderers.
Ted Kaczynski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski), AKA The Unibomber, suffers from schizophrenia. He's a math genius.
John Nash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nash_(mathematician)), real life subject of the movie 'A Beautiful Mind', also suffers. He's a math genius.
Ink is a zombie who can count, write numbers and enter numbers into a key pad. (OK, I'm just being stupid with this one.)
Possible link between Schizophrenia and creativity (http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/10149/20120604/genius-insanity-schizophrenia-bipolar-disorder.htm).



Something interesting about the Chinook Inkling, she had on clothing. This is the first mention of any Inkling wearing clothes. Why is this interesting? Well, if she was an original Little One did she...
Start out naked? From whom and/or where did she get the clothes? Who decided that she needed some modesty? Ink couldn't get any creepier than making zombie chicks then 'dressing them up to look pretty for him.'
Out-grow her Oshkosh B'gosh, Garanimals and Pull-ups? There was a mention of her clothing but no mention of her dressed like the Incredible Hulk or Fifty Foot Woman with torn clothing 20 sizes too small.


Great point....didnt even phase me that she was wearing clothing...But the fact that she's numbered (in at least one theory) means she was a created little one, not just a human-turned-instant-ADLO, so there's not much sense in her having clothes at her small stature and retaining them at the heightened stature.....very interesting....

[clem131]

I Had this written down yesterday but threw it out cause I was keeping track for just myself. *digs through desk garbage can* Found it!


Thanks for this. I re-listened and now it's a bit more clear. The short of it is that in the end there's Tony Robins + Carl + Black Hawk crew and one from the Chinook is missing.



Your second question I won't answer, 'cause then I had to kill myself after having killed you ... *g*

Not sure what this means O_o

[Penguine]

Maybe the Inklings are more self-aware? Maybe "she" knows she is a she and thinks that even though she is not a human she shouldn't be walking about butt-naked. When I heard them talk about how she was wearing clothes it made me think about the Witch in L4D - as in looks and dress style.

[LiamKerrington]

Not sure what this means O_o

It was a lame excuse for not knowing how to answer your question. I was just kidding.

About the little-one having worn clothes and been numbered ...
What, if she was a human that was turned into a little-one and then numbered afterwards? I would not consider this as unlikely as any other scheme.
Or what about this:
The little ones were created; later the creator realizes: standard issue regulars are worth nothing if a certain low degree in temperature is reached, so the creator tries to prevent the little-ones from suffering from the same fate as the regulars.

But regardless of whatever scheme: Do we have a confirmation about the little ones having been nude anytime? I don't remember this as a given fact; just from my memories:
- First time encounter with the little ones: Angel, Kalani and Skittles describe its funny movement, but not pretty much else ...
- Later Bricks rips off an arm of a little one during the zed-attack on the Mallers; was there any kind of statement speaking of nude little-ones? We only receive some information about the "endless number of fingers", the tattoo, and the probably self-inflicted scratchings ...
- Again later little-ones attack the chinook crew, and they don't describe any of the little-ones; later Saul, Victor, Glenn and Pete get into a combat-situation with the little-ones, and again there is no mentioning of nude little-ones ...
- In the latest encounter we have a little-one in clothing; does this mentioning imply that the other ones were not in clothes? Then what about Roman? Was he nude when he was downed by Saul, Victor, Glenn, Pete and CJ? Or its creator #6/#9?

All the best!
Liam

[poniesandzombies]

I am sure others have already mentioned this, but every time I listen to new Ft Irwin casts, I can't help but wonder if the maller's Puck and Coporal Puck are one in the same, and if so how that will affect the story....

[Tielurrdee]

I am sure others have already mentioned this, but every time I listen to new Ft Irwin casts, I can't help but wonder if the maller's Puck and Coporal Puck are one in the same, and if so how that will affect the story....

I think KC spoke about this before. Corporal Sam puck is the guys name at fort Irwin. And the maller known as puck that was only a nick name. I think KC commented on this similarity saying he didn't intend on doing that. And it was something he didnt even realized had happened. Im not 100% on that tho. The original puck guy was just an expendable character that obviously died because he was the diesel tank driver kolani flew a helicopter into. So they'll never meet. I'd assume he wouldn't live through that.

[Witch_Doctor]

It was a lame excuse for not knowing how to answer your question. I was just kidding.

About the little-one having worn clothes and been numbered ...
What, if she was a human that was turned into a little-one and then numbered afterwards? I would not consider this as unlikely as any other scheme.
Or what about this:
The little ones were created; later the creator realizes: standard issue regulars are worth nothing if a certain low degree in temperature is reached, so the creator tries to prevent the little-ones from suffering from the same fate as the regulars.

But regardless of whatever scheme: Do we have a confirmation about the little ones having been nude anytime? I don't remember this as a given fact; just from my memories:
- First time encounter with the little ones: Angel, Kalani and Skittles describe its funny movement, but not pretty much else ...
- Later Bricks rips off an arm of a little one during the zed-attack on the Mallers; was there any kind of statement speaking of nude little-ones? We only receive some information about the "endless number of fingers", the tattoo, and the probably self-inflicted scratchings ...
- Again later little-ones attack the chinook crew, and they don't describe any of the little-ones; later Saul, Victor, Glenn and Pete get into a combat-situation with the little-ones, and again there is no mentioning of nude little-ones ...
- In the latest encounter we have a little-one in clothing; does this mentioning imply that the other ones were not in clothes? Then what about Roman? Was he nude when he was downed by Saul, Victor, Glenn, Pete and CJ? Or its creator #6/#9?

All the best!
Liam

There has not been any description of the Little Ones wearing clothes. In fact, descriptions of the big ones, little ones and jumpers have been somewhat vague.

[Pillars]

If i remember correctly Saul mentions in 30-2 that #12 "had on torn pants but no shirt or shoes."

[Pillars]

What im wondering is why did #2 stick around until BH arrived but the turned Griggs fled. Maybe he didnt turn and got away and possibly grabbed the map before being chased away by #2. Just a thought.

[Witch_Doctor]

If i remember correctly Saul mentions in 30-2 that #12 "had on torn pants but no shirt or shoes."


You're absolutely right! Forgot all about that. Good catch.

[Witch_Doctor]

Was Griggs turned?

[Pillars]

From my understanding hes the one headed to Boulder.

[Pillars]

I thought that everyone that was in the chinook is dead and the only body not accounted for was Griggs. I could be wrong but that's what I thought. Now either Griggs was turned and fled or he got away as the blackhawk was incoming.

[Tielurrdee]

There has not been any description of the Little Ones wearing clothes. In fact, descriptions of the big ones, little ones and jumpers have been somewhat vague.

Well someone else said the fact about #12. But my thought is no one has described any zombie/creatures not wearing clothes. Which would be more disturbing ha. I mean I don't see how the behomeths could be clothed, but maybe I vision them being way bigger then they actually are. Makes me re think my vision on how big they are and makes them seem more realistically large as opposed to hulk large.

[Penguine]

What im wondering is why did #2 stick around until BH arrived but the turned Griggs fled. Maybe he didnt turn and got away and possibly grabbed the map before being chased away by #2. Just a thought.

There is no confirmation that Grigg is turned, only that he is missing. He could have escaped and is trying to get away, he could be turned, he could be a slow turner. We don't know yet.

[Cabbage Patch]

There is no confirmation that Grigg is turned, only that he is missing. He could have escaped and is trying to get away, he could be turned, he could be a slow turner. We don't know yet.

He is the only one left who heard the conversation between the soldiers at the LZ. Since the story is based on journal entries, and we heard that part of the story, who else could have recorded those events? I suppose Grigg could have written something during the flight on the Chinook, but I think there's hope the guy escaped un-turned.

[Robzombie]

I think one of the main points regarding the zombies in this episode was to illustrate how adaptable this virus/desease/parasite is. The little one that held on to the helicoptor, although it had taken some time, its skin thickened due to the cold. We were told as some of the others changed that the blood left their skin which turned pale, just as they were turning. This is the blood moving away from the skin and the cold to serve the internal organs and maintain core heat. Happens when people freeze but due to how fast this happened i think it was more of a survival adaptation. I also dont think that the skin thickens but rather hardens or becomes more dense as the blood has left those layers.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi there,

@Robzombie: nice theory. I like that.
@Pillars: Ok, missed that detail. But that would also mean: nudism is not for granted about the little-ones; the contrary might be true, because "torn pants" point at "proper pants" before that; considering the anatomie of their arms it strikes me as obvious that shirts, pullovers, turtlenecks, blazers, jackets etc.blabla might go amiss sooner then the pants ...
@CabbagePatch: Yeah, very reasonable to me.

All the best!
Liam

[Pillars]

Is there some connection in the fact that the first zombies Michael saw had self-inflicted wounds on them. And the Little Ones have been described to have self-inflicted scratches. I'm not saying they're the same but why would they have "self-inflicted" wounds?

[ferroaj]

There is no confirmation that Grigg is turned, only that he is missing. He could have escaped and is trying to get away, he could be turned, he could be a slow turner. We don't know yet.

I had a thought about this: maybe the little one left Grigg alive to follow him back to Boulder? That would explain why the LO waited 4.5 hours to attack the chinook and why one is left unaccounted. It also kind of explains why this one was in the trees -- trying to be discreet while it followed Grigg. To anticipate any counterpoint, it's probably letting Grigg take a headstart. That's why it hung back at the crash site. It'd be easily able to pick up on his scent and just stalk him until he makes it to Boulder.

This would mean that the LO's are intelligent. REALLY intelligent.

Thoughts?

[Witch_Doctor]

This would mean that the LO's are intelligent. REALLY intelligent.

Like the velociraptors from Jurassic Park. Once the Inklings learn to open doors (As opposed to just smashing through them) We're screwed.

[LiamKerrington]

Is there some connection in the fact that the first zombies Michael saw had self-inflicted wounds on them. And the Little Ones have been described to have self-inflicted scratches. I'm not saying they're the same but why would they have "self-inflicted" wounds?

NICE! Haven't thought of it. But you are right.
I could think of that: During the mutation/ turning the bodyfunctions get out of control, like a spastic reaction or something, which wound end up in harming themselves.

All the best!
Liam

[Original_Joseph]

Holy crud, KC - awesome writing! I can't believe we're looking at an outbreak story this far in, but introducing Boulder and the numbered zombies means that a bulletproof contagious zombie is 30 miles away from maybe the last large population of humans on earth. This may be as suspenseful as this series has ever been.

At this point, have we heard whether the army brass has evidence of holdouts on any other continent?

[Merlin1274]

Nope. They lost contact I believe with a couple other locations..