Chapter 31 Family Ties part 3

[nikvoodoo]

I am resurfacing from the abyss of boxes, uhaul's, unfinished homes and other bullshit to say enjoy the episode!

[Luna Guardian]

I'm back, up to date on the episodes and for the first time hating Scratch. Bring it!

[Vlarken]

*Waits for 9 o'clock*

[Penguine]

Dumb question.... Which 9am? EST, CST, MST, PST?

[Dyhoerium]

9am PST
Noon EST!

[Leedo2502]

I'm hoping we see what's going on at Irwin

[Litmaster]

I'm hoping we see what's going on at Irwin

I doubt it, given that we're at the end of a chapter. I'm thinking we'll get some more intrigue with the Mallers, possibly a scene with Brick's loyalty being questioned, and also of Lizzy learning of the existence of the incarcerated Burt. Also, a planning session with Saul & Co. outside the walls of the Colony, setting things up for their infiltration in the next chapter...

[Adventureless_Hero]

It's going to cut to several undetermined months later with Saul and Lizzy living in Boulder with their baby, Burt Tink. KC will do this just to make me go crazy with the timeline. :P lol!

[Leedo2502]

I doubt it, given that we're at the end of a chapter. I'm thinking we'll get some more intrigue with the Mallers, possibly a scene with Brick's loyalty being questioned, and also of Lizzy learning of the existence of the incarcerated Burt. Also, a planning session with Saul & Co. outside the walls of the Colony, setting things up for their infiltration in the next chapter...

Let me rephrase... I hope that we get a peek at Irwin as a teaser for the next chapter

[Penguine]

Its up now.

[UndeadSweeper]

CJ O_o' Wow! and LOTR joke for the win!

[Penguine]

She put on the ring and the evil came out.. LOL.. Great referrence to Lord of the Rings.

[HarleyQuinn]

I actually don't have that much to say about this chapter as a whole, Chapter 30 I had so many questions that I had to write them all down but I don't have much for this chapter. We got to see a different side to Scratch but that didn't last long and CJ yet again showed us that she has skilled ways.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I liked seeing that the Cheetos bag returned. Is it the one from Berts famous quote, "These Cheetos saved our asses!"

So we are set up for an action packed Chapter 32. I'm sure CJ will finally be ready to move. Are they going to start a revolution within the colony? I hope so! That should send the Mallers running and scatter them to the wastelands of L.A.

There are so many possibilities. I'm sure there is going to be a whole hell of a lot that goes wrong.

[Penguine]

Hmm.. CJ kinda put it all out there when she "showered" didn't she? Kinda like saying "Oh look, this could be yours Saul."

[UndeadSweeper]

I actually don't have that much to say about this chapter as a whole, Chapter 30 I had so many questions that I had to write them all down but I don't have much for this chapter. We got to see a different side to Scratch but that didn't last long and CJ yet again showed us that she has skilled ways.

Micheal basically help with her plan. If he didn't take the guns and she won't have thought of this. She probably thought of this when she heard Glenn story of the group taking the guns. CJ is soo... <3

[Adventureless_Hero]

Hmm.. CJ kinda put it all out there when she "showered" didn't she? Kinda like saying "Oh look, this could be yours Saul."

I think Victor is right on the money when he said she is playing mind games.
If she really wanted Saul so bad, she should have gone on missions with him, rather than let Victor go.
Thank goodness Saul is a faithful guy. Lizzy is all that matters, not the crazy naked katana chick.

[Dyhoerium]

Viva la revolucion! Can't wait to hear this play out. Now the question is will we get caught up with Ft. Irwin before hearing the details of Victor's revolution? I think we'll see both inside the Colony while Victor is inside and get an update on Ft. Irwin.

[UndeadSweeper]

I think Victor is right on the money when he said she is playing mind games.
If she really wanted Saul so bad, she should have gone on missions with him, rather than let Victor go.
Thank goodness Saul is a faithful guy. Lizzy is all that matters, not the crazy naked katana chick.

Who prefers a crazy naked katana chick?

*Raise hand* :)

[Penguine]

I liked seeing that the Cheetos bag returned. Is it the one from Berts famous quote, "These Cheetos saved our asses!"

I dont think so. That Cheetos bag would have gone down with the tower, unless... unless there was a strong southern wind that blew that bag to the Colony and on top of that particular roof as a good omen.

[Litmaster]

Ok, so the surveillance episode came as no surprise, but we did get a bit more back-story into Vic and CJ's character and we have the plan in place.... sort of.

CJ's Plan
Looks like CJ's plan is to somehow smuggle Vic into the Colony and use him as a mole to gather information and incite another revolution within the Colony. The 'holding his breath' suggests a water infiltration, but unless Vic is going to swim up a sewer line or something, this doesn't seem likely. Is there a stream flowing into the Colony? How are they irrigating those crops?

Perhaps the plan has to do with 'bribing' one of the scavenging teams into smuggling Vic in within a crate or something. Still, I don't see how Vic is just going to be able to mosey around in there and not be noticed, or ratted-out to the Mallers by one of his old enemies. What is he going to do, just hand out a few pamplets?



"Tired of the Shitty Governance?
Maller Abuse Got you Down?
JOIN US!" (etc...)

[Adventureless_Hero]

Listening again, I noticed Victor said that they Zombie Clean-up Crew only exists in L.A. What is Pinstripes doing with the dead bodies then? Cheap food supply for his zombie army?

[Litmaster]

Listening again, I noticed Victor said that they Zombie Clean-up Crew only exists in L.A. What is Pinstripes doing with the dead bodies then? Cheap food supply for his zombie army?

Behemoth food

[Litmaster]

If anyone is wondering just what a Katana looks like or what can be done with a good one, here's a video I came across of some guys using a katana to hack their way through animal carcasses, braided rope, mats, bamboo, copper pipes, and steel barrels:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3nAuowwqhI


Impressive! I can totally visualize CJ hacking her blade into that Zed Hed...

[Adventureless_Hero]

I think there is a method of using a Katana to put power into a single swing so you cut through in a single swipe and don't have to back the blade out, and for other occasions you have the precision to slice without coming into contact with things that would cause the blade to stick. So you have the strength to decapitate but also the precision to slice arteries without touching the bone.

I may be making that all up. :hsugh:

[Privateer]

Oooh! Lots of character development this episode! Get to hear more about Victor's ex Wife, and find out that CJ is some kinda impressive. Also, more info on CJ. She owned a working Katana and has the practice necessary to use it? Annnnd, it was the only weapon in her apartment? Kinda puts a dampner on any idea that CJ was a cop or SWAT or something. A survivalist wouldn't /just/ have a Katana so hmmmm... My monies,on military historian or Curator.

But my oh my, CJ does not lack ambition. I guess a fully functioning town is better then an empty apartment building.

And it kinda means Burt's captivity will end like the pit and the pendulum! This is gonna be sweeeeeet. But I think a plot jump to Irwin is likley gonna be next episode.

[Dyhoerium]

How are they irrigating those crops?


I remember Pegs asking Victor about that while he was escorting Michael, et al. to the doctor in the Colony. Vic wouldn't tell them, but I wonder if he's told CJ. You might be onto something with that.

[reaper239]

my thoughts as i listen:

CTFD! come at me bro!

"what do you got?" bazinga. speaking of, i want to get a machete for my BOB.

i like that, when she scold them for being loud she sounds like a school teacher.

"IT'S IN THE BONE"
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9458/aceventurawhennaturecal.jpg

the we're alive musical FTW

"is she gonna..." BAZINGA! apparently cj is hot.

really? lord of the rings reference?

so, vic and saul like playing with balls too?

dayum, she was setting a coup from the get go. this is gonna be epic... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO!!!!!!!!!!:mad :!!!!!! it's over... now i has a sad.

so it doesn't look like scratch will be taking her revenge on pegs, unless she can GTFO before the coup jumps off.

[Dyhoerium]

I think there is a method of using a Katana to put power into a single swing so you cut through in a single swipe and don't have to back the blade out, and for other occasions you have the precision to slice without coming into contact with things that would cause the blade to stick. So you have the strength to decapitate but also the precision to slice arteries without touching the bone.

I may be making that all up. :hsugh:

Sounds legit to me.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I remember Pegs asking Victor about that while he was escorting Michael, et al. to the doctor in the Colony. Vic wouldn't tell them, but I wonder if he's told CJ. You might be onto something with that.

I also recall Victor saying that Sean was part of a team working on an indoor plumbing project.

[HardKor]

This episode just cements it: Saul+Victor=comedy gold! We've had a lot of fire-forged duos in this show, but Saul and Victor are by far the most entertaining.
And CJ, what the hell was that? I'm sure the guys appreciate the show but that's just not right. Gonna have them boys walking funny.

And on a final note I'm with Dyhoerium: "Viva la revolucion!"

[Osiris]

I am not satisfied by this episode. So unsatisfied that I don't want to talk about it.

[Penguine]

Well CJ didn't have the strength to cut through. She got stuck in the bone. How much would that suck?

[Privateer]

I am not satisfied by this episode. So unsatisfied that I don't want to talk about it.

And yet here you are! :)

That sucks to hear, especially cause now I'm curious as to why! It /was/ a little short, but I think we got some good development out of the characters. Its much needed setup!

[Adventureless_Hero]

I am not satisfied by this episode. So unsatisfied that I don't want to talk about it.

"Looook at meeeee! I'm not going to comment on the episode. Mew Mew Mew...." :P

lol

[Osiris]

:hsugh:

[7oddisdead]

Gotta go digging...find where I called it...cause I did.

Oh look, right here...last post( on the mobile, copy/paste can suck)
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3436-Chapter-31-Family-Ties-part-1/page12


we can all but confirm the LA undead population is an uncommon occurance..though I wonder how much that has to do with inks influence vs relativity to ground zero.

More later...

[Osiris]

Gotta go digging...find where I called it...cause I did.

Oh look, right here...last post( on the mobile, copy/paste be a bitch)
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=43795

But anyways...i think the fact that we can all but confirm the LA undead population is an uncommon occurance..though I wonder how much that has to do with inks influence vs relativity to ground zero.

More later...

Bitch you suck at linking. What you want is this: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3436-Chapter-31-Family-Ties-part-1&p=43795&viewfull=1#post43795

[7oddisdead]

Bitch you suck at linking. What you want is this: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3436-Chapter-31-Family-Ties-part-1&p=43795&viewfull=1#post43795

fixed, bitch.....mew









:squint:

[Litmaster]

I also recall Victor saying that Sean was part of a team working on an indoor plumbing project.

Re-listened to part of "Catalyst"... mentioned crops being irrigated via hoses from water trucks. Didn't hear the plumbing ref but an aqueduct of some sort might have been built in Vic's absence...

[Adventureless_Hero]

Re-listened to part of "Catalyst"... mentioned crops being irrigated via hoses from water trucks. Didn't hear the plumbing ref but an aqueduct of some sort might have been built in Vic's absence...

There was a snip-it in 19-2 where Victor says, "Sean was out with the group working on the water [tank?] they're creating." I'm not sure if he says water tank or water tap. Anywho, I'll give listen some more. I'm like 95% sure they mention an indoor plumbing project somewhere.

[Penguine]

The aquaduct is an interesting thought, but those things are huge and definetly something that you would notice on your away to the colony and if one cut through you would see it. She might be talking about going through the sewer and "holding your breath" cause of the smell.

[Litmaster]

And CJ, what the hell was that. I'm sure the guys appreciate the show but that's just not right. Gonna have them guys walking funny.

First time I've felt a twinge of regret that WA is audio-only :cool:

[nikvoodoo]

They say they want a revolution/well you know...

We all want to change the world.


This revolution idea succeeds in one circumstance only in my opinion: If Scratch reveals what Angel's connection is to the Families. If she reveals that shortly, I don't think the Maller regime survives. If we don't hear it, the Mallers will either put down the rebellion or survive it enough that Scratch is still alive.

And it's good to know that CJ can stop those guys in their tracks. Good on you lady! And if you feel like going down a perverted thought process CJ said it's nothing you haven't seen before......

.....wonder what's been going on late nights in Dunbar when no one was around to hear them scr...nevermind.

[Kc]

And it's good to know that CJ can stop those guys in their tracks. Good on you lady! And if you feel like going down a perverted thought process CJ said it's nothing you haven't seen before......

No, they have not seen CJ naked before. It's more of a "You've seen boobs before".

[Osiris]

fixed, bitch.....mew









:squint:

And don't do it again. :squint:

[fridginators]

No, they have not seen CJ naked before. It's more of a "You've seen boobs before".what's "boobs" precious

[Osiris]

No, they have not seen CJ naked before. It's more of a "You've seen boobs before".

How 'method' was that episode? :naughty: http://smiliesftw.com/x/naughty.gif

[Cabbage Patch]

Is this the Colony location in our world? It's called "Sid Goldstein Freedom Park", in Westminster, California. Note the "West Orange County Marshal" and the "Westminster Police Dept" located around the boundaries of the park, just like Victor described.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2033&d=1342466156

[Kc]

Is this the Colony location in our world? It's called "Sid Goldstein Freedom Park", in Westminster, California. Note the "West Orange County Marshal" and the "Westminster Police Dept" located around the boundaries of the park, just like Victor described.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2033&d=1342466156

Nope. Think Liberty Park... Of course what you find has some creative liberties... just keep that in mind...

[Litmaster]

How 'method' was that episode? :naughty: http://smiliesftw.com/x/naughty.gif

Heh heh...

Yeah, Kc, isn't it about time for another one of those 'behind the scenes' videos? I'm thinking it will be one of the most watched of the series! *snicker*

[/sophomoric humor]

[Pikepaw]

This is my favourite episode now! Chinwee with a katana, Victor making a Lord of the Rings reference and especially Saul recounting the love story of Romeo and Romeo.

KC could you pretty please get Nate Geez to sing a full "Oh Fernado" song? I would listen to that all day. Plus Victor and Saul reacting to Chinwee's boobs was PRICELESS!

It is also really good to bring things down with this comedic bit after Scratch tortured Burt last week.

Need to go back to chapters 18 and 19 to figure out if anyone mentioned a water entrance or something. Is Victor getting smuggled inside of a giant water bottle like the Trojan Horse? Ok now I don't want a real answer, I want to keep that image and hear Saul sing

[Adventureless_Hero]

Nope. Think Liberty Park... Of course what you find has some creative liberties... just keep that in mind...

Ah! Now I see it! So they tore up all that playground stuff to make the crops, huh? Wow, it's really cool to take a story that you know to be fictional but then lay it on top of a real world settings.

[Adventureless_Hero]

The aquaduct is an interesting thought, but those things are huge and definetly something that you would notice on your away to the colony and if one cut through you would see it. She might be talking about going through the sewer and "holding your breath" cause of the smell.

I like your thinking. A canal would probably be an obvious point of entry and be guarded like Persian virgin. Plus, I don't think the Mallony has a canal or even a stream for that matter. They possibly have irrigation pipes (PVC) or garden hoses with holes poked into them to provide water to the crops. I think your interpretation of CJ asking how long they can hold their breath may refer to the smelly place she intends for them to go through: the sewers. It is a residential area so it has to have a sewer system.

[Cabbage Patch]

Okay, here's "Liberty Park" in Westminster. It puts the Sheriff's and Police Departments a few blocks away, but close enough to observe the Colony if there is a bit of an elevation advantage:

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2034&d=1342467691

Here's the relationship between "Liberty Park" and "Freedom Park":

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2035&d=1342467697

[Adventureless_Hero]

Okay, here's "Liberty Park" in Westminster. It puts the Sheriff's and Police Departments a few blocks away, but close enough to observe the Colony if there is a bit of an elevation advantage:

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2034&d=1342467691

Here's the relationship between "Liberty Park" and "Freedom Park":

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2035&d=1342467697


Freedom Park is what Victor called it once when they were in CJ's secret garden, but it was a mistake. Liberty Park was what was intended. I am wondering though, how big the Mallony is. Does it just include the houses surrounding Libery Park or a few blocks around?

[Vlarken]

CJ's boobs=yes. I love my imagination. Come on Victor (poor Victor, with his Ringwraith wife), woo her, you can do it! Also, she really does plan ahead; I think her plan has a high chance of success. It's a pity though, that Burt won't be able to help them in the rebellion, unless finds out he can shoot with his left hand as well as his right (which there's been lots and lots of discussion about in the previous episode thread). I'm of the opinion that he'll learn how to, but it'll take a while. Or that he might have truly given up hope with the loss of Shirley.

[nikvoodoo]

No, they have not seen CJ naked before. It's more of a "You've seen boobs before".

I figured that's what you were going for. But I couldn't help myself :p

Though this does answer a question as to how the Saul/CJ movie night relationship went. Sounds like it was an awful lot of CJ pining and Saul being oblivious.

[Vlarken]

Though this does answer a question as to how the Saul/CJ movie night relationship went. Sounds like it was an awful lot of CJ pining and Saul being oblivious.

Or just conjuring up an image of Lizzy as mind-barrier against CJ's sexual telepathy.

[Litmaster]

Freedom Park is what Victor called it once when they were in CJ's secret garden, but it was a mistake. Liberty Park was what was intended. I am wondering though, how big the Mallony is. Does it just include the houses surrounding Libery Park or a few blocks around?

There were several structures mentioned within the 'Mallony'- the hospital/prison, Marcus's house, the bar, the store, the radio shack, etc. Seems unlikely that was all built after, and seems reasonable that they would want to use all the available cleared soil for crops... Also, Vic had mentioned back in the "Catalyst" episode that the colony began as a rescue station where the coast guard were using the field as a landing pad and the first 'walls' were nothing more than a ragged line of abandoned cars and such. Seems likely, then, that people would want to take advantage of existing buildings to help reinforce their barricades, instead of trying to build a wall from nothing on a grassy field...


SO that leads me to believe that the grassy park is now all cropland and the rest of the colony stretches for perhaps a block further than that in all directions.

[Cabbage Patch]

There were several structures mentioned within the 'Mallony'- the hospital/prison, Marcus's house, the bar, the store, the radio shack, etc. Seems unlikely that was all built after, and seems reasonable that they would want to use all the available cleared soil for crops... Also, Vic had mentioned back in the "Catalyst" episode that the colony began as a rescue station where the coast guard were using the field as a landing pad and the first 'walls' were nothing more than a ragged line of abandoned cars and such. Seems likely, then, that people would want to take advantage of existing buildings to help reinforce their barricades, instead of trying to build a wall from nothing on a grassy field...


SO that leads me to believe that the grassy park is now all cropland and the rest of the colony stretches for perhaps a block further than that in all directions.

I think the artwork from Chapter 18 shows exactly what you describe:

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2036&d=1342470529

[Pikepaw]

Or just conjuring up an image of Lizzy as mind-barrier against CJ's sexual telepathy.

I must forever remember to be wary of sexual telepathy

[7oddisdead]

I must forever remember to be wary of sexual telepathy

baseball bro...baseball.(who am I kidding, that never works;) )

[BiTeMe]

Great episode. i love how KC Wayland has the actors giving off legitamate responses to situations. love the show!!?

[Condor]

Brokeback office? lol



I liked seeing that the Cheetos bag returned. Is it the one from Berts famous quote, "These Cheetos saved our asses!"

So we are set up for an action packed Chapter 32. I'm sure CJ will finally be ready to move. Are they going to start a revolution within the colony? I hope so! That should send the Mallers running and scatter them to the wastelands of L.A.

There are so many possibilities. I'm sure there is going to be a whole hell of a lot that goes wrong.
Chapter 32 most likely will jump to Ft Irwin and/or Boulder. The Action packed chapter will be the season finale.


Who prefers a crazy naked katana chick?

*Raise hand* :)
*Raise hand* :)


I am not satisfied by this episode. So unsatisfied that I don't want to talk about it.
Disappointed you couldn't see CJ's tatas?









Yeah, me too.

[BiTeMe]

Great episode. i love how KC Wayland has the actors giving off legitamate responses to situations. love the show!!?

[Paola]

Wow!! I've been so busy with school and just everything that I had to leave We're Alive for a while but damn do I regret it!! Took me a couple days to catch up and I'm just so overwhelmed with everything, it's crazy! I love We're Alive! Can't wait to hear what happens next and hopefully know what's going on at Ft. Irwin and also with Datu, Pegs, and them (if we ever hear from them again >.< ). I love Victor, he's become my favorite character so far. Sad about Angel :( Wasn't expecting that. Wow, definitely keeping up with We're Alive now!! Nice to finally have free time :D Not leaving We're Alive again!!!:omgomg:

[Litmaster]

I think the artwork from Chapter 18 shows exactly what you describe:

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2036&d=1342470529


FOUND IT!!! Wow, I can't believe I found the actual street address of the cover art from chapter 18!

The address is 8232 Westminster Avenue, Westminster, CA (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1163&bih=810&q=8232+Westminster+Avenue,+Westminster,+CA&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x80dd2626ffdfc0bd:0x77bacb171e5dde40,8232+W estminster+Ave,+Westminster,+CA+92683&gl=us&sa=X&ei=AqIEUNSUNaew6AG8j-n_CA&ved=0CAUQ8gEwAA). That building with the blue awnings you see there is a law office called Liem H. Do & Associates.

If you go to 'street view', then jump across the median to the other side of Westminster Ave and pan left, you can see the real-world equivalent of the artist rendering. This gives us an exact location for what appears to be the southwestern corner of the Colony compound, which definitely runs along Westminster and probably north along Monroe street. Other geographical details:


The entire western, northern, and eastern sides of Liberty Park is composed of low residential houses and wide streets... a shitty place to be building a fortress wall.


The nearest body of water seems to be the Santa Ana river, which is way to the east, so it looks like my 'infiltration via aqueduct' notion isn't going to fly, unless Kc dreamed up a fictional reservoir nearby...


The Westminster police department building on All American Way is not that tall, but neither are most of the buildings in the area. Rooftop cameras would probably be close enough to observe the colony from that distance.


THIS LINK (http://www.westminster-ca.gov/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=4553) overviews the sewer standards from the Westminster Dept. of Public Works... it says the sewer main is of 'variable size' VCP pipe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitrified_clay_pipe), which leads me to believe that a sewer infiltration is the most likely.


Lastly, here's a picture of a typical sewer main, which as you can see is big enough for Victor to work his way through, then up through a manhole once in the Mallony walls...

2037


You learn all kinds of shit from listening to a Zombie podcast, eh? :cool:

[Kc]

The entire western, northern, and eastern sides of Liberty Park is composed of low residential houses and wide streets... a shitty place to be building a fortress wall


Agreed. Not the best placement, but they did do it. The walls go all the way around.

[cupcakezombie]

Interesting episode.
One thing worth thinking about is if the Katana got stuck in the bone because there was something different about the bone of that zombie.
What if the bone was thicker or harder then she was expecting? It sounds like she was experienced using the katana so would know the areas of the body where it would be best to try and slice someone and make it clean through. So did she miss where she was aiming for, or was it an accident, and a way for CJ to get covered in goop.

[Vlarken]

baseball bro...baseball.(who am I kidding, that never works;) )

No, the only thing that works is employing sexual Occlumency, a difficult and little known art that takes years, and a very fine mind to master.

Also, I was thinking about the Colony what with recent events, and then I thought of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HAjloKP3yc) for Gatekeeper. And now I think I might always be forced to imagine Gatekeeper as that character.

[cupcakezombie]

Victor is awesome!

[Z Sniper]

Rep fairy is here!!!

[Osiris]

I was touched by the Rep Fairy. It was awkward at first, but then it was ok.

[wh33t]

I took the time to read through the first 8 pages and pretty much all of things I thought of were discussed. A few things to add.

I'm really not sure what CJ was doing with the undressing thing. It does seem totally out of her character, maybe she is really trying to let Saul know.

Isn't there some kind of water shortage at the Colony right now? I thought I remember Lizzie saying something about rationing.

I definitely think the Katana blade got stuck in the bone because the bones were stronger than normal. Which is interesting because it was just a normal walker right?

I loved how Victor was all playing off like he was dope at Soccer and later on when they played Saul was better at it than him. HAHA! Great DUO. Their dialogue and bromance is the best I've ever seen.

CJ is so rad. I've loved her since we first met her. It's looking doubtful that she is SWAT now. What SWAT member would only have a Katana sword in their apartment? Maybe one that specializes in planning or something but that still seems like a strange weapon to keep around as your only defense.

[Ray]

Well I guess we can see that CJ is playing mind games with them both and won't stop. Also, I like how she goes on and on about being a planner, and not taking risks then stupidly gets her sword stuck in a biter and Saul has to come save her. This chick is getting more and more self important and I hope it comes back on her. She's such a stuck up, righteous bitch to Saul and then acts like her shit doesn't stink when he treats her the same as she treats the both of them. I'm hoping that Vic, Saul and Lizzy make it and that CJ stays at the colony. She only cares about herself and she's more than happy to force people to bend to her will. The colony is a perfect place for her ego.

[Vlarken]

Rep fairy is here!!!

At first I thought this said 'Rape Fairy', and I was frightened... Then I re-read it, which was a good thing. :rolleyes:


I definitely think the Katana blade got stuck in the bone because the bones were stronger than normal. Which is interesting because it was just a normal walker right?

I figured that she was aiming to behead it, but her aim got thrown off, and she sliced through the neck sideways and into the shoulder, or something. Then she would have hit a thicker bone, causing the blade to become stuck. Or it could be that that biter was a stronger one. But then again, Victor said that they don't have those kinds down South; all the crazy shit is in L.A.

[Osiris]

At first I thought this said 'Rape Fairy', and I was frightened... Then I re-read it, which was a good thing. :rolleyes:



I figured that she was aiming to behead it, but her aim got thrown off, and she sliced through the neck sideways and into the shoulder, or something. Then she would have hit a thicker bone, causing the blade to become stuck. Or it could be that that biter was a stronger one. But then again, Victor said that they don't have those kinds down South; all the crazy shit is in L.A.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/roflwtf.gif I lost my shit when I read that! Remind me to rep you for that later.

[7oddisdead]

I'm noticing a trend...keeping my eye on something.

[Luna Guardian]

At first I thought this said 'Rape Fairy', and I was frightened... Then I re-read it, which was a good thing. :rolleyes:

Which makes Osiris' comment about "I was touched by the Rep Fairy. It was awkward at first, but then it was ok" that much more disturbing :D

[Witch_Doctor]

I thought that was interesting too. My money is on C.J. being a gamer. The Zombie Apocalypse is her time to shine in real life. As far as the sword getting stuck in bone, it happens. I just can't...

[Loyal Retainer]

I'm noticing a trend...keeping my eye on something.

What trend are you noticing? Inquiring minds must know!

[Eviebae]

So, either CJ is playing mind games or is so shut down sexually she sees herself as one of the guys. Hard to believe she wouldn't know it would affect the guys so much. Half of "modesty" is protection against guys with poor impulse control who think skin=sex now. So, what are her mind games? Look at what you'll be missing out on Saul or anything more devious that I'm not devious enough to think of?

Edit: Do you think the katana was just decoration?

[Luna Guardian]

So, either CJ is playing mind games or is so shut down sexually she sees herself as one of the guys. Hard to believe she wouldn't know it would affect the guys so much. Half of "modesty" is protection against guys with poor impulse control who think skin=sex now. So, what are her mind games? Look at what you'll be missing out on Saul or anything more devious that I'm not devious enough to think of?

My guess is that either she's playing mind games with Saul OR she doesn't care. Showing skin is a personal decision and not necessarily at all related to being sexually shut down. I for example wouldn't have problems taking my shirt off around people I don't know, but that may be a cultural thing as well.

But I do think it's more likely she's trying to entice Saul with her bosom.

[Vlarken]

My guess is that either she's playing mind games with Saul OR she doesn't care. Showing skin is a personal decision and not necessarily at all related to being sexually shut down. I for example wouldn't have problems taking my shirt off around people I don't know, but that may be a cultural thing as well.

But I do think it's more likely she's trying to entice Saul with her bosom.

It's always seemed to me that Europeans are more comfortable with nudity than Americans. It shows up a lot in European films, and I've seen some European commercials that have nudity in them that American's would think explicit. I'm not from Europe though, so I'm not sure, and correct my if I'm wrong.

I'm sure the latter is true: CJ has got the hots for Saul. She almost succeeded in enticing him too; he had to use his Lizzy mind-shield.



http://smiliesftw.com/x/roflwtf.gif I lost my shit when I read that! Remind me to rep you for that later.

:yay:


Which makes Osiris' comment about "I was touched by the Rep Fairy. It was awkward at first, but then it was ok" that much more disturbing :D

Mahahaha, quite. :D

[Luna Guardian]

It's always seemed to me that Europeans are more comfortable with nudity than Americans. It shows up a lot in European films, and I've seen some European commercials that have nudity in them that American's would think explicit. I'm not from Europe though, so I'm not sure, and correct my if I'm wrong.

I think this is the case, also something I've never quite understood in the modern American society. Blood, gore and violence are A-OK but good heaven's if there are sexual undertones or, heaven forbid, three pounds of fat with a nipple! Scandalous

[7oddisdead]

What trend are you noticing? Inquiring minds must know!

..thats just a placeholder, a bookmark of sorts for mine own records...actually has nothing to do with the show...

but now, show related shizz...

so ill admit. i honestly dont see what the big deal is with cj's toplessness...im not so sure it was a mind game so much as a simple yet effective way to get their attention...clear their minds, and get them ready for the task at hand...that scene takes place directly before the week long surveilance session..i cant see her doing something like that and then reverting back to normal cj for that period of time if..shes trying to make saul have second thoughts or whatever...no...does not compute here

cj also has dropped a few lines in this chapter that can really aid us in figuring out what she was prior to outbreak. last chapter when discussing rescue, she basically said why would i ever leave this place(dunbar) when i have everything i could ever want/need? why go through the trivial daily bullshit when here, i just have it? this chapter, we learn that the katana was the only weapon she owned prior to outbreak. so how is it she has....what we think....a good knowledge of weapons? she seems to take perrsonal ownership of anything that exists within the walls of dunbar tower?...seriously, when she said "children!" it soooooo sounded like a schoolteacher...i stand by the sarah conner theory

i didnt go digging through the threads to find where i said this, but we got full on confirmation of the scavangers at the colony being mostly (90%) old colony members...not mallers, at all....and people gave me crap for that. well...guess what? heres another one from a ways back

im willing to bet next time we hear from the dunbar crew, we learn that the way cj was able to sneak up on saul at the secret garden was well placed cars over open manhole covers. cj having a good working knowledge of sewer system will send vic in via a connecting pipe from the outside to the inside. many of us have specualted thats the way its going...and if not that...trojan horse


edit: and a word on the katana getting stuck via one "hero protagonist" via neal stephensons; snow crash....if you do not properly snap the wrist at the point of imact with bone, the blade can easily become lodged. technique is key.

[Vlarken]

I think this is the case, also something I've never quite understood in the modern American society. Blood, gore and violence are A-OK but good heaven's if there are sexual undertones or, heaven forbid, three pounds of fat with a nipple! Scandalous

I know, I don't understand it either. We're also the only country with an drinking age limit of 21; you can join the Army here at 18, but not drink alcohol. O_o I attribute a lot of the lenience towards violence and abhorrence towards sexual things to the strong hold religion has over the people, and the strong conservative mindset that is very present in the government. I'm not saying I'm against showing violence, but I think sexuality should not be frowned upon either: they should both be shown with an equal lack of censorship. I suppose that may sound strange (and I'm also saying these things without a lot of evidence to back them up, they're just purely my opinions).

[Luna Guardian]

I know, I don't understand it either. We're also the only country with an drinking age limit of 21; you can join the Army here at 18, but not drink alcohol. O_o
Forget about that, you can become a porn star at 18 and yet still only drink at 21 :D

[yarri]

My guess is that either she's playing mind games with Saul OR she doesn't care. Showing skin is a personal decision and not necessarily at all related to being sexually shut down. I for example wouldn't have problems taking my shirt off around people I don't know, but that may be a cultural thing as well.

But I do think it's more likely she's trying to entice Saul with her bosom.
I think you all are wrong I think it's victor she was trying to entice. Victor needs love too!!!

[Luna Guardian]

I think you all are wrong I think it's victor she was trying to entice. Victor needs love too!!!

Victor has his balls

[Vlarken]

I think you all are wrong I think it's victor she was trying to entice. Victor needs love too!!!

Poor Victor. One would think though, in all that time that they lived together, with Saul not playing ball, that Victor and CJ would at least get together for sex without commitment, even if they weren't attracted to each other in the relationship sense. I mean, people have needs. Even CJ's cats are getting more than she is.


Forget about that, you can become a porn star at 18 and yet still only drink at 21 :D

Oh I know that... From experience. :cool:

[yarri]

Victor has his balls

He needs more than just his balls!

[Litmaster]

Isn't there some kind of water shortage at the Colony right now? I thought I remember Lizzie saying something about rationing...

Good point about the water shortage. We know now that the colony isn't placed near a good water supply.



CJ is so rad. I've loved her since we first met her. It's looking doubtful that she is SWAT now. What SWAT member would only have a Katana sword in their apartment? Maybe one that specializes in planning or something but that still seems like a strange weapon to keep around as your only defense.


Edit: Do you think the katana was just decoration?

Yes.... I'm thinking the katana was a decorative sword she had on her wall or something. Don't think that Chinwe was prior SWAT. Maybe she was an event planner?



I for example wouldn't have problems taking my shirt off around people I don't know, but that may be a cultural thing as well.

Not too late to change that avatar. :)



im willing to bet next time we hear from the dunbar crew, we learn that the way cj was able to sneak up on saul at the secret garden was well placed cars over open manhole covers.

Yeah, we never did get confirmation on that, did we? But it seems unlikely that nobody from the colony ever thought of barricading the manholes, or setting up traps down in the sewers. Vic might be in for a nasty surprise...

[Luna Guardian]

Not too late to change that avatar. :)

Oh you dirty, dirty man. I think we might have some underage members on this site though, and I'm too pretty to go to jail. You can envision me topless if you wish though ;)

[HarleyQuinn]

Just a thought, I don't think it is going to be easy for Victor to form any alliances in the colony if he is seen due to the lies that were spread about him after he ran. Riots/rivalry against the Mallers may be difficult to form if they don't fully trust him.

[Hellbringer]

KC could you pretty please get Nate Geez to sing a full "Oh Fernado" song? I would listen to that all day. Plus Victor and Saul reacting to Chinwee's boobs was PRICELESS!



I'm torn on this... on one head, no self-respecting grunt should know about disco, much less Abba. But on the other hand, I love Abba renditions. And I ain't a grunt.

Heck, let's get a "Saul's Greatest Hits" album out there. Oh yeah!

[Cabbage Patch]

Isn't there some kind of water shortage at the Colony right now? I thought I remember Lizzie saying something about rationing.

Westminster, California gets 58% of its water from groundwater wells in the city limits. I couldn't find any pictures of the wells there, but if they're like the one I'm familiar with the ones I've seen they sit on a small lot with a pump house and storage tanks for several tens to hundreds of thousands of gallons of pumped, processed water. When the power goes off the pumps stop, but the tanks stay full till someone empties them.

I'm thinking that the Colony has been living off the stored water at the well sites, and that the tanks are running low. Sean's ill-fated project could have been an attempt to restart the pumps at one of the wells by installing a generator, or potentially a wind turbine. Meanwhile scavenger teams would be out tapping smaller privately owned wells in people's back yards, which can be run off a portable generator. They couldn't produce the volume that the city wells can, but it would be better than nothing.

**Edit**
Here's a picture of a government-run groundwater well site in Los Angeles, CA. It's probably similar to the ones in Westminster.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2041&d=1342547147

[nikvoodoo]

I am suddenly struck by the memory (based off HarleyQuinn's post above) of a certain assault on a certain prison in a certain comic book series and can see Victor being sat on top of the Guardian wall being tortured by Scratch who are making CJ and Saul watch.

[Stuv]

Interesting episode. I think we may be overanalyzing the topless thing. I think that was inserted for a bit of comic relief and to humanize CJ a bit more. She is always so serious and uptight. This action broke the tension and helped everyone relax. I am more interested in why Victor got so frustrated and lost it, this certainly is not the only time he has had a period of inactivity. I would think Saul has more reason to be jumpy and he seems the most relaxed of anyone. Perhaps Victor knows something more about the Colony that he hasn't revealed yet. He seems almost to be waiting for something to happen. Maybe he needs to hear the details of CJ's plan before he gives up this info.

[Z Sniper]

2040

I'm the dude playing a dude, disguised as another dude. (The guy in the middle!) Fernando is behind me. Saul is to my right with Kalani. Michael is on the phone trying to get a hold of Randy, and Datu right beside him. And last but not least, CJ looks like a little asian dude once she cut her hair. I told her to at least put some lipstick on and the bottle bottom glasses don't do her any favors!

[Hellbringer]

Also, more info on CJ. She owned a working Katana and has the practice necessary to use it? Annnnd, it was the only weapon in her apartment? Kinda puts a dampner on any idea that CJ was a cop or SWAT or something. A survivalist wouldn't /just/ have a Katana so hmmmm... My monies,on military historian or Curator.


I dunno... just because one is on the police force doesn't mean that they want to have a gun at home. That's similar to thinking every Soldier has a rifle or pistol at home for fun or firefighters have a recreational fondness for axes. I knew a bunch of red, blue, and yellow legs who didn't own weapons.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Random observations I made after consuming like 15 sugary Electric Willies (gummy worms):

I guess Victor doesn't mind being called Vic anymore.

Saul furthers the stereo-type that black people are better at sports than anyone else, including futbol.

Not only did Chinwe take her top off, she also poured water all over her bosoms...evil woman...deliciously evil woman.

The music was very good. It created a different mood for me than previous episodes. It was kind of eery. It made me think of ghosts and haunted places. It was further enhanced for me by the notion that the group is inhabiting a building that was once a buzz with people working hard but is now so quiet it echoes the current residents voices. It was scary.

CJ says "eckspecially" at one point in the episode.

Chinwe furthers the stereo-type that Asian people are good with math; using all them percents and what-not. ;p

You can re-edit this episode to make it sound incredibly naughty. Taken out of context, a lot of the dialogue can sound filthy!

[Mikeyd2tall]

man Kc, you get Cj topless in this episode and all the sudden some people in the forum become a bit......more interesting than i found them before :meh:

[Nate Eeez]

After all this time, CJ is still trying to lure Saul? Even as they inch ever closer to rescuing Lizzy? Some comments on the forum mention CJ as only thinking of herself. If she still believes she'll get Saul to change his mind about Lizzy by exposing some wet cleavage, she really is ego-centric bordering on narsacistic personality. She must believe she can have whatever she wants, no matter the emotional cost to others.

[Nate Eeez]

With all the time CJ has spent with Saul watching Anime, he didn't pick up on her attraction to him? Nothing? Either he is naive or knows she's interested and is hoping she'll lose interest if he plays stupid.

[UndeadSweeper]

I am suddenly struck by the memory (based off HarleyQuinn's post above) of a certain assault on a certain prison in a certain comic book series and can see Victor being sat on top of the Guardian wall being tortured by Scratch who are making CJ and Saul watch.

Bad Nik, Bad! Why are you trying to get Victor killed???? Don't you know the might pen of KC roam these these halls? Don't bring your Kalani hate against Victor lest you have the entire forum have you turn into a red shirt appearance in the podcast. :mad:

[forgottenone]

With all the time CJ has spent with Saul watching Anime, he didn't pick up on her attraction to him? Nothing? Either he is naive or knows she's interested and is hoping she'll lose interest if he plays stupid.

Sorry, but this is hillarious. I dont know many men that think with the brain in their head... (and they admit it too, so don't give me grief, please).

[UndeadSweeper]

Secondly Nik, What are you doing on the forum? There hasn't been a WND in nearly a month. Get Brit on the horn and get the kitchen and make us a podcast! /rant

[Condor]

All this talk about breasts has me craving chicken tonight.


Forget about that, you can become a porn star at 18 and yet still only drink at 21 :DWho wants to see a drunk porn star? Besides, by age 21 they're too old for the business. :)


Oh you dirty, dirty man. I think we might have some underage members on this site though, and I'm too pretty to go to jail. You can envision me topless if you wish though ;)Some of us aren't underage and that's what Private messages are for.
PS I have a poor imagination. :D

[Burnsville Kit]

Incredible episode. I agree with one of the above that we will have some sort of sewer insertion. CJ was very naughty, but I too was distracted by her actions - I almost rewound to hear it again. Loved the singing - I want to hear the full song now! Don't listen to the naysayers KC - you are never too young to know about ABBA.
Now, if when we rescue Lizzie & Burt, we hear Saul start to sing something from the Sixties, maybe "Paint it Black," I'll be surprised.

[Cabbage Patch]

There seems to be some confusion over the song Saul sang. It was based on Barry Manilow's "Mandy", not ABBA's "Fernando".

[Hellbringer]

There seems to be some confusion over the song Saul sang. It was based on Barry Manilow's "Mandy", not ABBA's "Fernando".

Dangit! Wait... I gotta relisten to that again. Either way, I'm still for a Saul's Greatest Hits Album.

[Vlarken]

Oh how odd, I had no idea that there were two Fernando songs. They both seem to have such similar lyrics as well. I'm all for a new version of the song, with lyrics about Fernando and Victor's love, culminating in Fernando's tragic death-by-biter. Sung by Saul of course.

[Osiris]

There seems to be some confusion over the song Saul sang. It was based on Barry Manilow's "Mandy", not ABBA's "Fernando".

This is accurate. Though it sounded more like the Homer Simpson version.

[Osiris]

Oh how odd, I had no idea that there were two Fernando songs. They both seem to have such similar lyrics as well. I'm all for a new version of the song, with lyrics about Fernando and Victor's love, culminating in Fernando's tragic death-by-biter. Sung by Saul of course.

There's... not.

[Hellbringer]

Dangit! Wait... I gotta relisten to that again. Either way, I'm still for a Saul's Greatest Hits Album.

Gosh Darn all to that hockey place!!! He's right. Just did a relisten and it is a take on Mandi. I still stand by original statement, but reworded... replace Abba with Barry Manilow. Good catch, Cabbage Patch.

[Osiris]

Incredible episode. I agree with one of the above that we will have some sort of sewer insertion. CJ was very naughty, but I too was distracted by her actions - I almost rewound to hear it again. Loved the singing - I want to hear the full song now! Don't listen to the naysayers KC - you are never too young to know about ABBA.
Now, if when we rescue Lizzie & Burt, we hear Saul start to sing something from the Sixties, maybe "Paint it Black," I'll be surprised.

Dear Kc,

Please don't let Saul ever sing Paint It Black or Sympathy For The Devil, for any reason, at any time.

Sincerely,
The Universe.

[Condor]

Dear Kc,

Please don't let Saul ever sing Paint It Black or Sympathy For The Devil, for any reason, at any time.

Sincerely,
The Universe.
With music rights issues, I'm guessing neither will happen.
That's the reason I won't buy the DVD sets of the TV show "Tour of Duty", they couldn't get the rights to use "Paint it Black", the original theme song for the show, and most of the other music used originally on the show.

[Vlarken]

There's... not.

Hooray for displaying musical ignorance. :meh: I thought that the Barry Manilow one was also about a Fernando... But it's about a Mandy. My mind makes odd connections is my only defense. I still want to hear a Fernando being eaten by biters rendition though.

[Zombiphobe]

Some of us aren't underage and that's what Private messages are for.
PS I have a poor imagination. :D

This link might help. While not topless, Luna Guardian is in a ripped shirt.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2562-Halloween-Costume-Pictures!&p=30936&viewfull=1#post30936

[Penguine]

Hey.. Not sure how long ago Victor left the Colony, but he sure seems to know where everything is. He knows where all the traps are, all the entrances, etc. Probably just me going way deeper then need be, but don't you think once the Mallers took the Colony they would make some changes? Probably not I guess. I dont know.

[Litmaster]

This link might help. While not topless, Luna Guardian is in a ripped shirt.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2562-Halloween-Costume-Pictures!&p=30936&viewfull=1#post30936

Luna Guardian is a GUY??!?


Ew.... forget what I said about that avatar, then..... ugh. :zombie:

[Adventureless_Hero]

Luna Guardian is a GUY??!?


Ew.... forget what I said about that avatar, then..... ugh. :zombie:

Lol! I can remember a time when I didn't know what sex Luna Guardian was and some other member assumed I was hitting on him. People are funny in the cabeza.

[Cabbage Patch]

Hey.. Not sure how long ago Victor left the Colony, but he sure seems to know where everything is. He knows where all the traps are, all the entrances, etc. Probably just me going way deeper then need be, but don't you think once the Mallers took the Colony they would make some changes? Probably not I guess. I dont know.

Interesting point. I just relistened to the part where Michael, Pegs and Kelly arrived at the Colony, and was struck by the description of the traps and barriers. My impression was that they were in place to protect against zombies, not humans. They were obvious, and marked, they even had the code on the gate by the keypad. I can't imagine the Mallers being so trusting.

[fridginators]

I was honestly shocked that Victor was seemingly fine with Saul taking the absolute piss out of his tragically dead friend. I mean Victor saw him get bitten and then killed by Michael... seems like one of those memories that would haunt you. I guess in the zombie apocalypse you harden up in many respects (see Lizzie and Saul, a very short while after Todd's death), but still, it seemed a tad strange.

Also CJ could have simply been oblivious - remember, this is a woman who isn't great around people, and judging by her boyish attire might just not really think about her body that much, especially as a sexual object, but as we've discussed, it does seem a tad too convenient. We'll see.

I do hope we transition to Fort Irwin at some point. I do like this trio a lot, but it'd be nice to get an update on Michael, Riley, Puck, Kimmet and Tanya. I wonder if Tanya is still alive, if any of the four months hitherto will be enacted or we'll simply have the situation as it stands now. Also we should keep in mind the supposed importance of Saul's encounter with the scouting party, and what Michael meant by how it "changed everything".

Season 3 has been quite different to Season 2. Season 2 really had many stages - recovery, stagnation, adventure, active planning and then climax - Season 3 has been much more exploratory (not outright adventurous) and information based. Let's put it another way - more passive than active. Things have occurred to our heroes - they have had situations put upon them, whereas in Season 2 they very much were the masters of their own destiny.

Also, we've had no appearance of Skittles or Ink yet. The former could easily fade away into the night, but the latter I really am wondering what he got up to. I assume the hospital is now his fortress, but we don't really know. Also I think we shouldn't so easily conclude that there's only one badass zombie - I think it's too impractical in terms of sheer logistics to have only one zombie - plus I would add that The Man in the Pin-Striped Suit, from my recollection, has never been described as being The One With The Markings. There is a subtle difference, but I think it might be important. Or else I'm just chatting shit, we don't really know, but the way this show is structured it is good to raise absolutely every single little point we can.

Keep being excellent KC.

[nikvoodoo]

Interesting point. I just relistened to the part where Michael, Pegs and Kelly arrived at the Colony, and was struck by the description of the traps and barriers. My impression was that they were in place to protect against zombies, not humans. They were obvious, and marked, they even had the code on the gate by the keypad. I can't imagine the Mallers being so trusting.

Pete and Glenn also said as much before. They said the traps and what not hadn't been changed with the Maller take over. They essentially just took over and kept everything in place barring a few positions here and there. What was it? 90/95% of the Guardians were the same? Just answering to a new overlord.

[nikvoodoo]

Lol! I can remember a time when I didn't know what sex Luna Guardian was and some other member assumed I was hitting on him. People are funny in the cabeza.

Sounds like Litmaster needs to listen to more WND.

[Penguine]

...plus I would add that The Man in the Pin-Striped Suit, from my recollection, has never been described as being The One With The Markings. There is a subtle difference, but I think it might be important.

Chapter 11 - R&R - Part 1 of 3 at about 6:33 "...a man in a grey pinstriped suit stood at the end of the hall..." and then at 10:12 - 10:24 Micheal describe the person "...there wasnt a patch of skin left on his body that wasn't colored with one tatoo or another..."

Pinstripped Suit/Tatoo guy = same person.

[nikvoodoo]

The beautiful thing about the way Kc has created this character(s) is not one person describes the guy the same way. They could very well be the same person, but we just don't know positively......yet.

[Luna Guardian]

Luna Guardian is a GUY??!?


Ew.... forget what I said about that avatar, then..... ugh. :zombie:

What's wrong babe, don't you want me anymore? :D


Lol! I can remember a time when I didn't know what sex Luna Guardian was and some other member assumed I was hitting on him. People are funny in the cabeza.

I clearly remember Ra1th being all over me way back then and heartbroken when I appeared on the best WND episode ever. Come to think of it, I haven't seen Ra1th around all that much since...


Sounds like Litmaster needs to listen to more WND.

If you wouldn't be putting folks to sleep with your droning, they might get through the episodes and hear shocking revelations such as this!


I wonder if this same thing happens the next time I disappear for months and come back. No one alert the new people then!

[Nate Eeez]

Sorry, but this is hillarious. I dont know many men that think with the brain in their head... (and they admit it too, so don't give me grief, please).

It's instinctual. We mate. That is our purpose as animals. Procreation. Make no disillusions about that. Unfortunately, evolution has developed our brains to the point we have intelligence. Intelligence and jealousy have made us possessive of things and others. Hence, mind games and crimes of passion.

In other words, yeah, guys are horny and we know it.

[Litmaster]

What's wrong babe, don't you want me anymore? :D

Ugh.... how ironic that this came up during the "Romeo & Romeo" chapter....


I feel like I've fallen into one of those internet safety films....

... where you think, "Ok, Finland.....so...." you imagine you are talking with this

2046

when the reality is more probably like this!

2047


This may have forever altered my perspective of Finland. Thanks for that, Luna.


I think I'm gonna head over to that 'manly' thread and shoot the shit with Todd or Cabbage Patch about manly stuff like trucks, and guns.... tailgating.... ball-bearings... (uh, no-- on second thought, nothing that has to do with 'balls')...

Yeeech... now if you excuse me, I have to go brush my teeth. Again. :o

[7oddisdead]

This thread is full of win..

End of.

[Adventureless_Hero]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/adventureless_hero/ThreadDerailed.jpg

Derailed. Somebody....heeeeeelp!

[UndeadSweeper]

Derailed. Somebody....heeeeeelp!

It wasn't our fault. CJ distracted us :yay:

[Connie Killjoy]

I have been listening to this podcast since the last part of season 1, I suggest it to my friends, look forward to it every week, and also listen to We're Not Dead.

I am incredibly, incredibly disappointed with the latest episode. The "character development" in part 3 of family ties involves mostly homophobic and women hating jokes, along with a seriously uncomfortable section around CJ's nudity. It's never that I have never been bothered by subtext, but I haven't found myself enraged, either.

There have always been stereotypes poking their heads out within this podcast, and they have been fairly low-level and not overtly offensive. (Except for those awful commercials for Chapter 30, and one of the most sinister characters, Gatekeeper, being openly homosexual.) But THIS was by far the least listenable episode of the podcast, and I can't think of any reason for the dialog contained other than FILLER. If suddenly down the line it matters that Saul and Victor are not only homophobic, but also hate/distrust women, then maybe I'll feel differently, but I highly doubt it.

These repeated themes reinforce that this is an issue with the creater, and not "plot/character development."

Earth to Casey: You might have people other than (white) straight men listening to this podcast, and the dialog can affect listeners who aren't just typical dude-bros (even if the majority of feedback you get on forums would suggest that is the case.) Attitudes like the ones your characters are reflecting are outdated and unneccessary for your plotline.

If your response to this is "it's part of their character" maybe you could take a serious look at what relying on base insults centered around gender and sexual orientation says about your ability to write and carry a plot, and how a confident female or homosexual character might confront them within the story. A punch hard enough to knock them out for a few hours might suffice, but I think in a situation like the one they find themselves in I would like to see more severe consequences.

Don't worry, I've got my flame-retardent suit on for what I'm sure will be a ridiculous series of responses to this post.

[UndeadSweeper]

I have been listening to this podcast since the last part of season 1, I suggest it to my friends, look forward to it every week, and also listen to We're Not Dead.

I am incredibly, incredibly disappointed with the latest episode. The "character development" in part 3 of family ties involves mostly homophobic and women hating jokes, along with a seriously uncomfortable section around CJ's nudity. It's never that I have never been bothered by subtext, but I haven't found myself enraged, either.

There have always been stereotypes poking their heads out within this podcast, and they have been fairly low-level and not overtly offensive. (Except for those awful commercials for Chapter 30, and one of the most sinister characters, Gatekeeper, being openly homosexual.) But THIS was by far the least listenable episode of the podcast, and I can't think of any reason for the dialog contained other than FILLER. If suddenly down the line it matters that Saul and Victor are not only homophobic, but also hate/distrust women, then maybe I'll feel differently, but I highly doubt it.

These repeated themes reinforce that this is an issue with the creater, and not "plot/character development."

Earth to Casey: You might have people other than (white) straight men listening to this podcast, and the dialog can affect listeners who aren't just typical dude-bros (even if the majority of feedback you get on forums would suggest that is the case.) Attitudes like the ones your characters are reflecting are outdated and unneccessary for your plotline.

If your response to this is "it's part of their character" maybe you could take a serious look at what relying on base insults centered around gender and sexual orientation says about your ability to write and carry a plot, and how a confident female or homosexual character might confront them within the story. A punch hard enough to knock them out for a few hours might suffice, but I think in a situation like the one they find themselves in I would like to see more severe consequences.

Don't worry, I've got my flame-retardent suit on for what I'm sure will be a ridiculous series of responses to this post.

So everyone should talk P.C and act like they are robot? I'm sorry but if you label anyone that has a joke about homosexual a homophobic that is also ridiculous. Normal people talk like this and will continue to do so. To think that no one can said anything,whether good or bad, about anyone else is kidding yourself. Saul and Victor are friend who like jabbing at each other and try to release pressure off each other.

[Vlarken]

I have been listening to this podcast since the last part of season 1, I suggest it to my friends, look forward to it every week, and also listen to We're Not Dead.

I am incredibly, incredibly disappointed with the latest episode. The "character development" in part 3 of family ties involves mostly homophobic and women hating jokes, along with a seriously uncomfortable section around CJ's nudity. It's never that I have never been bothered by subtext, but I haven't found myself enraged, either.

There have always been stereotypes poking their heads out within this podcast, and they have been fairly low-level and not overtly offensive. (Except for those awful commercials for Chapter 30, and one of the most sinister characters, Gatekeeper, being openly homosexual.) But THIS was by far the least listenable episode of the podcast, and I can't think of any reason for the dialog contained other than FILLER. If suddenly down the line it matters that Saul and Victor are not only homophobic, but also hate/distrust women, then maybe I'll feel differently, but I highly doubt it.

These repeated themes reinforce that this is an issue with the creater, and not "plot/character development."

Earth to Casey: You might have people other than (white) straight men listening to this podcast, and the dialog can affect listeners who aren't just typical dude-bros (even if the majority of feedback you get on forums would suggest that is the case.) Attitudes like the ones your characters are reflecting are outdated and unneccessary for your plotline.

If your response to this is "it's part of their character" maybe you could take a serious look at what relying on base insults centered around gender and sexual orientation says about your ability to write and carry a plot, and how a confident female or homosexual character might confront them within the story. A punch hard enough to knock them out for a few hours might suffice, but I think in a situation like the one they find themselves in I would like to see more severe consequences.

Don't worry, I've got my flame-retardent suit on for what I'm sure will be a ridiculous series of responses to this post.

.....Is this a troll? Or is he really serious? O_o Either way, that was pretty funny, but not really in a good way.

[7oddisdead]

Gotta agree with the first two responders...while I can understand the sentiment behind the post..really, I can....good gravy, this is how dudes talk...get over it...if we all constantly watched our p's and q's....man, that would make for a dull existence..sorry you didn't like it...but I doubt you'll get a ton of like opinions.


Ps: welcome to the forum killjoy ;)

[7oddisdead]

I have been listening to this podcast since the last part of season 1, I suggest it to my friends, look forward to it every week, and also listen to We're Not Dead.

I am incredibly, incredibly disappointed with the latest episode. The "character development" in part 3 of family ties involves mostly homophobic and women hating jokes, along with a seriously uncomfortable section around CJ's nudity. It's never that I have never been bothered by subtext, but I haven't found myself enraged, either.

There have always been stereotypes poking their heads out within this podcast, and they have been fairly low-level and not overtly offensive. (Except for those awful commercials for Chapter 30, and one of the most sinister characters, Gatekeeper, being openly homosexual.) But THIS was by far the least listenable episode of the podcast, and I can't think of any reason for the dialog contained other than FILLER. If suddenly down the line it matters that Saul and Victor are not only homophobic, but also hate/distrust women, then maybe I'll feel differently, but I highly doubt it.

These repeated themes reinforce that this is an issue with the creater, and not "plot/character development."

Earth to Casey: You might have people other than (white) straight men listening to this podcast, and the dialog can affect listeners who aren't just typical dude-bros (even if the majority of feedback you get on forums would suggest that is the case.) Attitudes like the ones your characters are reflecting are outdated and unneccessary for your plotline.

If your response to this is "it's part of their character" maybe you could take a serious look at what relying on base insults centered around gender and sexual orientation says about your ability to write and carry a plot, and how a confident female or homosexual character might confront them within the story. A punch hard enough to knock them out for a few hours might suffice, but I think in a situation like the one they find themselves in I would like to see more severe consequences.

Don't worry, I've got my flame-retardent suit on for what I'm sure will be a ridiculous series of responses to this post.

fuck it..this pissed me off.

When the third season began..saul and Vic were not exactly friends. Really, they wanted nothing to do with each other..and now what, three months later...they're making what you might call "dude-bro" humor. Now, I'm a working guy..just a normal dude-bro myself...but this particular episode showed me just how close Saul and Vic have grown...most guys will not joke around about things like they did unless that person is a good, good friend...an acquaintance or somebody you don't know that well will react in ways similar to that wall of text you put ^up there.. So I for one found the "sophomoric" humor in this episode to be quite effective...it showed the level of trust Saul and Vic truly put with each other..

And KC...good on you for writing it that way, too many people pull punches when it comes to writing for just this reason..thank god there's still some manly writers around. Rant/

[nikvoodoo]

I would point out that Gatekeeper's sexuality is mentioned in passing. Victor mentions it. It's never brought up again. It doesn't influence his characterization, or personality. It simply is a part of who he is, but just like in real life it doesn't affect everything he does.

It's not like Gatekeeper walks around in full BDSM outfits with a ball gag, or a banana boat with feathers or any other stereotypically gay outfit one might see in the village during Pride week (I've been there. I've seen it). He doesn't call people honey, or squeal when he gets upset and profess his undying love for Cher/Barbra/Celine. He just is an ambitious man with his goals set who happens to like guys. I'd say the more celebrated gay characters on sitcoms are more damaging to the culture than Gatekeeper. I'd wager the character Jack on Will and Grace did more to set back the cultural perceptiom than anyone in this podcast (removing the obvious argument of national exposure on a network sitcom).

Having grown up in a jock's world: this episode didn't bother me. Growing up solidly within the theater culture and world: this episode didn't offend me. I've heard some of the nastiest things in my life come from the mouths of my gay friends. Everyone regardless of sex, race, creed or orientation has locker room talk or bathroom mirror talks similar to this episode.

[Hellbringer]

I would point out that Gatekeeper's sexuality is mentioned in passing. Victor mentions it. It's never brought up again. It doesn't influence his characterization, or personality. It simply is a part of who he is, but just like in real life it doesn't affect everything he does.

It's not like Gatekeeper walks around in full BDSM outfits with a ball gag, or a banana boat with feathers or any other stereotypically gay outfit one might see in the village during Pride week (I've been there. I've seen it). He doesn't call people honey, or squeal when he gets upset and profess his undying love for Cher/Barbra/Celine. He just is an ambitious man with his goals set who happens to like guys. I'd say the more celebrated gay characters on sitcoms are more damaging to the culture than Gatekeeper. I'd wager the character Jack on Will and Grace did more to set back the cultural perceptiom than anyone in this podcast (removing the obvious argument of national exposure on a network sitcom).

Having grown up in a jock's world: this episode didn't bother me. Growing up solidly within the theater culture and world: this episode didn't offend me. I've heard some of the nastiest things in my life come from the mouths of my gay friends. Everyone regardless of sex, race, creed or orientation has locker room talk or bathroom mirror talks similar to this episode.

I might be oblivious, but I needed Victor to tell me that Gatekeeper was gay.

As for Jack... I pretty much hated that show because of his character. Total stereotype in my mind, and not even worth the butter on the bread if you ask me.

[forgottenone]

It's instinctual. We mate. That is our purpose as animals. Procreation. Make no disillusions about that. Unfortunately, evolution has developed our brains to the point we have intelligence. Intelligence and jealousy have made us possessive of things and others. Hence, mind games and crimes of passion.

In other words, yeah, guys are horny and we know it.

Which is exactly why I can't believe Saul hasn't thought of her that way. Even with Lizzy out of the way, so to speak, the second brain takes over. 6 mos without it...watching 'Boobie' anime (don't remember how Victor put it)... Yea, sure.. Who you trying to fool?

[Vlarken]

I agree with all of these responses. In my opinion, political correctness is a hinderance to society rather than a help. It raises up barriers between people of different nationalities and sexual orientations, causing them to be too wary of offending the other party that they aren't able to get along and view each other as just human beings: equal and on the same field. It puts ideas and opinions in people's heads that would not have been there before and are damaging to their view of the world.

Also, about this 'being hateful towards women' thing: did the thought ever occur, that Victor's wife actually was a bitch? She was probably a mean and hateful woman, and I don't think it's incorrect or hateful towards women to state that fact. He was describing one woman's character, not women as a whole. It's ridiculous to assume that just because he said that about one woman that he was slandering women as a whole. It's a stupid double standard that men shouldn't be aloud to say bad things about women, or use the word 'bitch' about them when the person whom they're talking about truly deserves it.

[Litmaster]

Earth to Casey: You might have people other than (white) straight men listening to this podcast, and the dialog can affect listeners who aren't just typical dude-bros (even if the majority of feedback you get on forums would suggest that is the case.) Attitudes like the ones your characters are reflecting are outdated and unneccessary for your plotline.


Apt name, first of all.

And I'm not even sure whether to take you seriously, given that this is your first post here. I've known other people from various forums who like to drop these incendiary text-bombs, most likely out of some narcissistic desire to shift the focus of conversation to themselves. Hell, for all I know, you ARE Kc, and have just signed on using a bogus name on a different computer just to screw with us...

...but assuming you're serious, (and this is the only air-time you'll be getting from me):



The day I suspect that Kc starts making decisions based on a political rather than artistic motivation is the day I stop listening.

If what he writes bothers you so much, you're more than welcome to do the same.

[Luna Guardian]

Ugh.... how ironic that this came up during the "Romeo & Romeo" chapter....


I feel like I've fallen into one of those internet safety films....

... where you think, "Ok, Finland.....so...." you imagine you are talking with this

2046

when the reality is more probably like this!

2047


This may have forever altered my perspective of Finland. Thanks for that, Luna.


I think I'm gonna head over to that 'manly' thread and shoot the shit with Todd or Cabbage Patch about manly stuff like trucks, and guns.... tailgating.... ball-bearings... (uh, no-- on second thought, nothing that has to do with 'balls')...

Yeeech... now if you excuse me, I have to go brush my teeth. Again. :o

:D

If you'd have paid attention in that thread, you'd notice that I stated there that I was a man :D. You just can't keep yourself from me, hmm?

[Osiris]

I have been listening to this podcast since the last part of season 1, I suggest it to my friends, look forward to it every week, and also listen to We're Not Dead.

I am incredibly, incredibly disappointed with the latest episode. The "character development" in part 3 of family ties involves mostly homophobic and women hating jokes, along with a seriously uncomfortable section around CJ's nudity. It's never that I have never been bothered by subtext, but I haven't found myself enraged, either.

There have always been stereotypes poking their heads out within this podcast, and they have been fairly low-level and not overtly offensive. (Except for those awful commercials for Chapter 30, and one of the most sinister characters, Gatekeeper, being openly homosexual.) But THIS was by far the least listenable episode of the podcast, and I can't think of any reason for the dialog contained other than FILLER. If suddenly down the line it matters that Saul and Victor are not only homophobic, but also hate/distrust women, then maybe I'll feel differently, but I highly doubt it.

These repeated themes reinforce that this is an issue with the creater, and not "plot/character development."

Earth to Casey: You might have people other than (white) straight men listening to this podcast, and the dialog can affect listeners who aren't just typical dude-bros (even if the majority of feedback you get on forums would suggest that is the case.) Attitudes like the ones your characters are reflecting are outdated and unneccessary for your plotline.

If your response to this is "it's part of their character" maybe you could take a serious look at what relying on base insults centered around gender and sexual orientation says about your ability to write and carry a plot, and how a confident female or homosexual character might confront them within the story. A punch hard enough to knock them out for a few hours might suffice, but I think in a situation like the one they find themselves in I would like to see more severe consequences.

Don't worry, I've got my flame-retardent suit on for what I'm sure will be a ridiculous series of responses to this post.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/hugeoopies.gif

[Osiris]

Dude, you mad, bro.

[Connie Killjoy]

It's obvious that the people responding to my post aren't bothered by the things I put in my post... (whoooo yay lets throw a party, you don't see an issue except that I pointed out an issue!), and so rather than arguing out with everyone who responded, I'll mostly (with some small responses) seek clarify my point.

I was VERY pissed after listening to this weeks podcast, which resulted in the above post. After reading some replies I tried to listen with taking into account that maybe there is some kind of cultural "male" context that I'm not privy to going on. Still pissed, but was able to hear more of the story that KC put into the episode than before.....

My frustration isn't about political correctness as much as it is writing. My problem with the content of this week's episode is that the homophobic cracks and weird slurs about Victor's ex wife were jarring. Why wouldn't Victor be angrier about Saul joking about his dead friend? And with NO explanation about why Victor feels the way he does about his wife, I am (as a listener) just supposed to assume that these things are true? I walked away from this episode hating these characters more than necessary.

Though, strangely enough I didn't hate Burt for saying he was going to "Skullfuck" Scratch earlier in Chapter 30.

So what's the difference?

There's a clearly underlined context to what led Burt to say that to Scratch. It's obviously not about a need to rape and defile her for being a woman, it's a defense mechanism. He's also not targeting a group of people (imagine if instead of gay jokes, Saul was making racial slurs.) In at least one episode Saul and Victor say racially heated things to each other, but it was when they still hated each other. So now, instead of saying racial shit, Saul is putting Victor into the "gay" catagory, which is safer because it's not offensive to either of them to make fun of gay people? This doesn't make sense to me.

When KC takes so much time explaining the ins and outs about the military, what things like "MOS" and other terms mean it's because he knows that the listener might not have that knowledge about what those things are. Without those things built into the conversation, someone without the knowledge base would be turned off because suddenly it's foreign. What's great about most of this story is how it seamlessly builds in that information into the story making it more understandable for those with civilian backgrounds, while those of us who know the terms aren't sidelined by it.

When I hear discource between two straight male characters like the ones in the conversation, it doesn't have context for me to understand that they are bonding. Instead, it sounded like Saul was picking on Victor, and vice versa. They sound more like enemies than friends, and then the conversation about CJ is even worse because it (to me as a listener who doesn't hang out with people that talk to each other that way) IT MAKES NO SENSE.

Sure, these conversations might seem totally rational for those of you responding, but your experience of the world is not everyone's experience and not everyone WANTS to have that lived experience. Also, the argument "well that's what I have seen/ or that's how I talk to my friends" is invalid because it doesn't apply to everyone listening, which is my point. If military jargon wasn't explained, than the only people that could listen and enjoy it would be people in the military.

When the writing draws expectations from a narrow vein of lived experience, it's not good writing. It's not reachable, and it turns people who don't relate off to it. I get pissed when I'm distracted from the story with nonsensical bullshit, and miss the stuff I want to hear. I don't listen to this story for political correctness, I listen to it for the story, and those conversations got in the way of my experience and I feel entitled to say so, even if there isn't a person on this forum who agrees.

And as for this, the Gatekeeper business ....
"It's not like Gatekeeper walks around in full BDSM outfits with a ball gag, or a banana boat with feathers or any other stereotypically gay outfit one might see in the village during Pride week (I've been there. I've seen it). He doesn't call people honey, or squeal when he gets upset and profess his undying love for Cher/Barbra/Celine. He just is an ambitious man with his goals set who happens to like guys. I'd say the more celebrated gay characters on sitcoms are more damaging to the culture than Gatekeeper."

I am still uncomfortable with the Gatekeeper, who I see as super creepy, sinister, and a cold-blooded killer, as being theonly character on the show who has been defined as gay. Sure, there are suspicions about Riley, but her character is an alchoholic and also in the closet if she is a lesbian. I am entitled to feeling that way and having someone list out all the ways that he isn't perpetuating a stereotype isn't helpful to convincing me otherwise. Also, when I'm unexpectedly jarred by two characters having a conversation like Victor and Saul's, the tolerence I need to have to "get over" all the other stuff that I could get over for the sake of the story becomes strained.

I have a far reaching critique of Will and Grace so it's not about gay/queer people having to be in a good light, just not different lighting, that makes them look stereotypingly one way or another. Something about Gatekeeper and his position doesn't sit right with me at all, and the fact that the story pointed out him being gay also seemed out of context. Perhaps it was thrown in there to make people feel better about him staring at naked Peggs and Kelly. Still, it struck me as odd and uncomfortable.

And as for the Killjoy cracks? Haha fuck yeah. I'm pretty sure none of you went to bed crying because I "Killed" all your "Joy", you can be sure that I sit a little taller everytime someone says something about how the name fits. :P

[7oddisdead]

ill not quote all ^ that..just to save space

good on you for coming back with a valid, well said response to those of us who questioned your first post. while i don't altogether agree with your opinions on a few bits, as evident by my second response :hsugh:...i (and many of us on here) will respect the hell out of someone who stands up for what they feel and not be ashamed to say so. but i guess thats the most difficult aspect of writing, well, anything with such a large base of source material like this...elements of all the things we have discussed here are going to come up...it would be completely unnatural if they didn't..if your going to try to include all walks of life within a story...include them..

but again..no more hate here from me..keep doing your thing...and we can all talk about it...together.

[Osiris]

Not reading that walla of text.

Who has the cliffs?

[Litmaster]

Not reading that walla of text.

Who has the cliffs?


Killjoy: "I'm mad because Kc isn't more pro-gay."

[Luna Guardian]

Killjoy: "I'm mad because Kc isn't more pro-gay."

That's what I took from that as well. Ms KJ is entitled to her opinions and, like 7odd, I respect her standing up for them. But she's clearly not been around guys all that much if she thinks what KC wrote is anything more than friendly fun-poking. As for women-hating, where'd you get that? I'm honestly really curious to know

[UndeadSweeper]

Killjoy: "I'm mad because Kc isn't more pro-gay."

The odd thing is that I forgot that point about gatekeeper until Killjoy brought it up. All I remember was that gatekeeper was bad guy based on the story of him shoot the survivors that were try to bring a child in. I wonder if this more of an issue of humor then anything else. Comedy is subjective and is one of of the most difficult thing for an actor to do. They can evoke angry, think of Scratch and what she did to Burt. They can evoke sadness, think of Sam in the arena . But to make someone think something funny sole depends on the listener or viewer.

[Nate Eeez]

I'm glad Connie Killjoy replied without anger and made a reasonable argument, to which 7odd was able to calmly give props and keep the door open for CK to feel she(?) could share any further concerns or observations.

However, Saul and Victor's banter was far from homophobic. I thought Victor's response was dismissive of Saul's comments and he didn't get caught up in feeling as if his sexuality was being threatened, so he didn't rail against Saul's playful jibes. Had Victor responded otherwise, then I could understand the argument for homophobia.

[VEE]

If anyone is wondering just what a Katana looks like or what can be done with a good one, here's a video I came across of some guys using a katana to hack their way through animal carcasses, braided rope, mats, bamboo, copper pipes, and steel barrels:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3nAuowwqhI


Impressive! I can totally visualize CJ hacking her blade into that Zed Hed...

If these were legal here I'd want one.

[VEE]

When Vee finally gets written in as Riley's love interest, can we have it after his brief but passionate fling with CJ, thanks very much.

[nikvoodoo]

My frustration isn't about political correctness as much as it is writing. My problem with the content of this week's episode is that the homophobic cracks and weird slurs about Victor's ex wife were jarring. Why wouldn't Victor be angrier about Saul joking about his dead friend? And with NO explanation about why Victor feels the way he does about his wife, I am (as a listener) just supposed to assume that these things are true? I walked away from this episode hating these characters more than necessary.

Personally, I call my college girlfriend of 4+ years as "She Who Must Not Be Named" and make all sorts of claims equating her to Voldemort. Is she evil incarnate? No. Did she do a metric shit ton of stuff that I feel like she deserves the title sometimes? Yes. Do I believe Victor truly believes his ex-wife is as evil as he portrayed? No, I think he in a serious moment would allow some nuance in his description.

He has known Saul longer. He knew Fernando for less than 3 months. He's been with Saul for at least 4 now. What I took away from that is Saul has replaced Fernando in Victor's life. I thought the conversation was crossing a line, but what informed me that this was normal and ok was Victor's reaction. If he doesn't have issue with it, then neither do I because this is obviously a string of jokes Saul has touched on before and Victor has become desensitized to it.



In at least one episode Saul and Victor say racially heated things to each other, but it was when they still hated each other. So now, instead of saying racial shit, Saul is putting Victor into the "gay" catagory, which is safer because it's not offensive to either of them to make fun of gay people? This doesn't make sense to me.

Friends press friends buttons to get a rise out of them.



When I hear discource between two straight male characters like the ones in the conversation, it doesn't have context for me to understand that they are bonding. Instead, it sounded like Saul was picking on Victor, and vice versa. They sound more like enemies than friends, and then the conversation about CJ is even worse because it (to me as a listener who doesn't hang out with people that talk to each other that way) IT MAKES NO SENSE.

They are picking on each other. That's how men bond. This isn't the first media outlet to show men in this light. Extreme example See: Fight Club.



And as for this, the Gatekeeper business ....

I am still uncomfortable with the Gatekeeper, who I see as super creepy, sinister, and a cold-blooded killer, as being theonly character on the show who has been defined as gay. Sure, there are suspicions about Riley, but her character is an alchoholic and also in the closet if she is a lesbian. I am entitled to feeling that way and having someone list out all the ways that he isn't perpetuating a stereotype isn't helpful to convincing me otherwise. Also, when I'm unexpectedly jarred by two characters having a conversation like Victor and Saul's, the tolerence I need to have to "get over" all the other stuff that I could get over for the sake of the story becomes strained.

Never once did I say you needed to get over it and you are perfectly entitled to react to the story however you will.

but the point I'm trying to make is simple: You can scream out boogie man all you'd like that Gatekeeper is an evil character who happens to be gay, but that's just it. He just happens to be gay. You're making a big deal out of it when there is nothing there showing him as gay. He's a character. He happens to be gay. Durai, Latch, Scratch and Tardust are all "evil" characters who happen to be straight (I'll assume on Scratch and Durai as this hasn't been discussed with them). I find Tardust far more offensive as a straight man who tried to rape another character. He's forcing his sexuality and dominance on someone. Gatekeeper does not. It's a facet of his personality. If Gatekeeper was depicted molesting men as they were inspected, I'd be right there with you. That would be a horrible depiction of a gay character who is using their position to force people into unwilling sexual encounters.


Something about Gatekeeper and his position doesn't sit right with me at all, and the fact that the story pointed out him being gay also seemed out of context. Perhaps it was thrown in there to make people feel better about him staring at naked Peggs and Kelly. Still, it struck me as odd and uncomfortable.

And it didn't strike me as out of the ordinary at all. But that's my opinion just like yours is. Neither right, nor wrong...just is.

[VEE]

Oh, well, I felt that the dialogue between Saul and Victor was bang on the money, it was very fluid and natural and the only reason I think about it at all is because it has been brought up here.

I guess we all do see things differently, or hear them in this case, but for me, this episode was pretty much flawless in terms of writing and execution. Really enjoyed it.

[nikvoodoo]

Oh, well, I felt that the dialogue between Saul and Victor was bang on the money, it was very fluid and natural and the only reason I think about it at all is because it has been brought up here.

I guess we all do see things differently, or hear them in this case, but for me, this episode was pretty much flawless in terms of writing and execution. Really enjoyed it.

I thought the dialogue was right on the money and natural too. In regards to Fernando I did originally think it crossed the line because I very clearly remember his reaction to his death. Then when you sit with it a while longer you realize what I said above: He's known Saul longer and this conversation doesn't bother him so they've obviously gone down that road before.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I was wondering why Victor was okay with the Fernando jokes, but that was only because I had been secretly thinking Fernando was his brother. I do now feel that Victor just needed time to go through the stages of dealing with the loss of a friend. He's spent more time with Saul now, and probably been able to bond better seeing as how it's just been him, Saul, and CJ for the passed few months as opposed to a Colony full of hundreds of different faces.

It's like in that crap MTV show The Real World (ironic name if you ask me) when you force people to be together for prolonged periods of time they have to hash out their crap and eventually form this unbreakable bond. We saw what it was like early on for Victor and Saul and now we see what it has become. Victor and Saul have the bromance.

When Saul was singing his altered version of Mandy to Victor, one with deep insight on the workings of male brotherhood could interpret Sauls lyrics. They were: "Hey Victor, tell me it isn't what it was with Fernando. Tell me what we have is real and true. It's me and you, and I'll kick your balls...if you want me to." Soccer balls, just for clarification.

I am very curious about Victor's past, but knowing how he feels about everything from his past or why it happened isn't something I can expect to have laid out for me. I'm divorced and had a lot of anger towards my ex-wife, but I had to get over that shit. When people ask me about it, I reply very much like Victor did, without giving them an explanation as to why I feel that way. Some things, no matter how close you are with folks, you just prefer to keep to yourself.

As for the whole homophobic thing, I dunno. It offends some folks and that sucks, but the truth is, I kid around with my friends like this, in the company of our gay friends. Hell, my gay friends joke like that with us! But that's the way the world is; it's populated with all walks of life who are infinitely complex. But having listened to KC's writing I see that he does a damn fine job of making sure his characters have motive. There's a reason folks do everything, and this little bit of banter reveals what type of relationship Victor and Saul have. To me, that relationship was just portrayed as brotherly. Some folks may see it different. I'm also sure there was motive behind CJ's actions. We'll just have to be patient and see how everything plays out.

...

San Dimas High School Football Rules!

[Kc]

Just a quick response to the comments made; I stand by what was written. I made sure with all intent that Saul never used the word "gay" in any derogatory sense as if there was something wrong with it, because there's not. This was a scene of two guys who have reached a level of comfort and companionship that they can push each other and give the other one a hard time. They went from slicing and dicing, to kidding around with each other. The dialogue of two guys "busting each other's balls", is just that. Guy-banter. Can I explain guy-banter? Not like I can for what "MOS" stands for. That's technical, this is more personal. This sort of dialogue can be cut out of typical male heavy military unit, like the one that Saul was in before. You, as a listener might not be familiar with how soldiers talk to each other in the barracks, but maybe now you do. It's very typical.

It also showed a comradery that CJ never experienced because she didn't spend as much time in the field as them. Hense the "oh yeah, you wouldn't know because you were never out there with us..." These are instances of me trying to be economic in the writing and tell as much as possible in very little time, and to fill in the gaps of the time we didn't have with them. They lived those moments, even though we didn't get to see them.
Same goes for Victor's line about his wife. The fact that he said something now, and has rarely talked about it, tells us more than if he did all the time. He may call her a bitch, but who knows if he means it. It's not meant to be derogatory towards women in general, just how he responds to his ex-wife which we presently know nothing about.

I treat people's sexual preference in the story as if they shouldn't be a big deal. Yes, Gatekeeper is gay, but so what? It doesn't change how he does things in the story, or acts. He didn't even let it effect him in his job of inspecting people while they are naked. It's such a non-issue, and I treat it as thus.

I think that covers all the bases for now. Carry on-

[Nate Eeez]

Ah, KC. I'm sorry you felt to need to defend your work. I thought a majority of the comments on here covered things. It seemed everybody understood the content for what it was.

[Kc]

Ah, KC. I'm sorry you felt to need to defend your work. I thought a majority of the comments on here covered things. It seemed everybody understood the content for what it was.
It's just been one of those days, what can I say.

[UndeadSweeper]

I was wondering why Victor was okay with the Fernando jokes, but that was only because I had been secretly thinking Fernando was his brother. I do now feel that Victor just needed time to go through the stages of dealing with the loss of a friend. He's spent more time with Saul now, and probably been able to bond better seeing as how it's just been him, Saul, and CJ for the passed few months as opposed to a Colony full of hundreds of different faces.

It's like in that crap MTV show The Real World (ironic name if you ask me) when you force people to be together for prolonged periods of time they have to hash out their crap and eventually form this unbreakable bond. We saw what it was like early on for Victor and Saul and now we see what it has become. Victor and Saul have the bromance.

When Saul was singing his altered version of Mandy to Victor, one with deep insight on the workings of male brotherhood could interpret Sauls lyrics. They were: "Hey Victor, tell me it isn't what it was with Fernando. Tell me what we have is real and true. It's me and you, and I'll kick your balls...if you want me to." Soccer balls, just for clarification.

I am very curious about Victor's past, but knowing how he feels about everything from his past or why it happened isn't something I can expect to have laid out for me. I'm divorced and had a lot of anger towards my ex-wife, but I had to get over that shit. When people ask me about it, I reply very much like Victor did, without giving them an explanation as to why I feel that way. Some things, no matter how close you are with folks, you just prefer to keep to yourself.

As for the whole homophobic thing, I dunno. It offends some folks and that sucks, but the truth is, I kid around with my friends like this, in the company of our gay friends. Hell, my gay friends joke like that with us! But that's the way the world is; it's populated with all walks of life who are infinitely complex. But having listened to KC's writing I see that he does a damn fine job of making sure his characters have motive. There's a reason folks do everything, and this little bit of banter reveals what type of relationship Victor and Saul have. To me, that relationship was just portrayed as brotherly. Some folks may see it different. I'm also sure there was motive behind CJ's actions. We'll just have to be patient and see how everything plays out.

...

San Dimas High School Football Rules!

Right now, Victor and Saul are the only family left to one another. They been through alot and don't forget that not even 5 mins earlier Saul was fight off a zombie to help CJ. I see Saul blow off steam in his our way by remove himself and have some fun with Victor. Next they are involve a situation with CJ that they have never exp before. Yes, brotherly relationship have different ways of deal with stuff. Even Saul was surprise about Victor's ex but want to be supportive and Victor was just happy to share with him.

(Opps wrote this moments after KC answer)

[Nate Eeez]

Buck up, camper.

[Osiris]

Killjoy: "I'm mad because Kc isn't more pro-gay."

Who cares if he's pro-gay or not? The fuck does it matter? Good God, some people are fucking bitchy for the sake of it. I should start bitching that I don't feel as though not enough carpenters are being represented. Shit what about trannies? Why aren't there any fucking trannies on the show, Kc? What's up with that?




I call bullshit on it.

[Osiris]

P.S. For the record, I'm not a tranny carpenter. Just a normal carpenter. I just think trannies are fun.

[Nate Eeez]

Yeah, carpenters are not getting the respect here. Who do you think built the wall for the Colony, people?

You may get you "trannie" if Victor has to dress up in disguise when he sneaks into the Colony.

[UndeadSweeper]

Yeah, carpenters are not getting the respect here. Who do you think built the wall for the Colony, people?

You may get you "trannie" if Victor has to dress up in disguise when he sneaks into the Colony.

How about the pets???! They don't get any respect. Lady is barely mention now and Zombiekiller was abandon at the tower.

[Osiris]

Yeah, carpenters are not getting the respect here. Who do you think built the wall for the Colony, people?

You may get you "trannie" if Victor has to dress up in disguise when he sneaks into the Colony.

That's not a tranny, bro. That's a cross-dresser, dude.

[Litmaster]

That's not a tranny, bro. That's a cross-dresser, dude.

We already got a cross-dresser back at the Tower, and Burt said that Riley looked like a tranny while dressed up like Pegs on the golf course. Oh, and Riley was hinted as being a lezbo by Kelly. We even have some subtle allusions to necrophilia when Angel and Riley got all snuggly with that corpse-pile. Oh, and the Pegs-Michael sex, lest you straight people start whining.

No zoophiliacs yet, but we haven't seen Lady or Mr. Whiskers in awhile... (Skittles?)

So there you go... PC all around. Let it never be said that WA isn't LGBT-friendly... :rolleyes:

[Nate Eeez]

Whoops. *hand smack to the forehead*

[Osiris]

We already got a cross-dresser back at the Tower, and Burt said that Riley looked like a tranny while dressed up like Pegs on the golf course.

So there you go... PC all around. Let it never be said that WA isn't LGBT-friendly... :rolleyes:

PC is just another way to draw attention to shit that doesn't need the attention to begin with. Nobody stands around and says "Oh, I bet that guy over there is straight" or "I wonder if that girl likes girls as much as I do." That shit is fucking gay and needs to stop. People are just people, labels hurt.

[Osiris]

See you in a week. :hsugh:

[Nate Eeez]

No, wait. You mean transgender. Tranny is sometimes used for both . . . No, wait. Why are we having this debate here? No, wait. Why am I having this debate here? *Head smack*

[Osiris]

No, wait. You mean transgender. Tranny is sometimes used for both . . . No, wait. Why are we having this debate here? No, wait. Why am I having this debate here? *Head smack*

It's only used for both by uneducated, inbred fucking half-wits who don't understand the English language enough to write their own names.

[Penguine]

Yeah, carpenters are not getting the respect here. Who do you think built the wall for the Colony, people?

You may get you "trannie" if Victor has to dress up in disguise when he sneaks into the Colony.

LOL... Trannie/cross-dresser/whatev's... for some reason I picture Victor as a heavier man with short hair and a goatee.. Actually I picture him looking alot like my Hispanic Brother from another Mother. Im not Hispanic BTW, but my good friend is. And let me tell you, if Victor has to dress up like a woman to get in the Colony... that is going to be one ugly woman!

[Adventureless_Hero]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/adventureless_hero/Nintendo%20N%20Forums/BearDriving.jpg

We are so off topic. And the next episodes isn't until August fucking 6th.

[Penguine]

Osiris you seem angry. You should talk with Dr. Fabrè. <--- no idea if that is the correct spelling btw! :p

[Litmaster]

LOL... Trannie/cross-dresser/whatev's... for some reason I picture Victor as a heavier man with short hair and a goatee.. Actually I picture him looking alot like my Hispanic Brother from another Mother. Im not Hispanic BTW, but my good friend is. And let me tell you, if Victor has to dress up like a woman to get in the Colony... that is going to be one ugly woman!


Come to think of it.... I don't see any Bostonians represented on the show yet.

You better get on that, Kc, or I'ma gonna get PISSED! :D

[Litmaster]

We are so off topic.

No! This was prompted by Saul and Vic's 'non-PC' bantering and use of language, so we're good. Still in same cosmic space.... sorta.

[Osiris]

Osiris you seem angry. You should talk with Dr. Fabrè. <--- no idea if that is the correct spelling btw! :p

Far from man, sir. You won't be able to mistake me being mad for anything else.

[Nate Eeez]

Osiris you seem angry. You should talk with Dr. Fabrè. <--- no idea if that is the correct spelling btw! :p

Angry, indeed.
This thread has gone awry.
How do we get back on topic with weeks to go until the next episode?

[reaper239]

Far from man, sir. You won't be able to mistake me being mad for anything else.

too true, you'll know he's pissed when he starts calling you a halfwitted fucking inbred. at that point he was just making a statment. it can be hard to tell at first, but once you see him pissed, you'll know.

[yarri]

Far from man, sir. You won't be able to mistake me being mad for anything else.

I think your adorable when your upset.

[Nate Eeez]

No! This was prompted by Saul and Vic's 'non-PC' bantering and use of language, so we're good. Still in same cosmic space.... sorta.

Ah, friendly banter.

[Osiris]

I think your adorable when your upset.

I think you're a douche when I'm upset. :squint:

[yarri]

I think you're a douche when I'm upset. :squint:

Yes, but I've grown very fond of you even when you're a turd. I find that sometimes there is a bit of truth in your rants at me so I always try and see that first as I can be annoying and I accept the truth of myself. Though, if it's you having your man time of the month I contemplate fantasies of your death and subsequent skinning. I think you would make a lovely pair of slippers. :)

[reaper239]

Yes, but I've grown very fond of you even when you're a turd. I find that sometimes there is a bit of truth in your rants at me so I always try and see that first as I can be annoying and I accept the truth of myself. Though, if it's you having your man time of the month I contemplate fantasies of your death and subsequent skinning. I think you would make a lovely pair of slippers. :)

it puts the lotion on its skin...

[7oddisdead]

Aaaaaand...still full of win.

End of/again.

[Osiris]

Yes, but I've grown very fond of you even when you're a turd. I find that sometimes there is a bit of truth in your rants at me so I always try and see that first as I can be annoying and I accept the truth of myself. Though, if it's you having your man time of the month I contemplate fantasies of your death and subsequent skinning. I think you would make a lovely pair of slippers. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CQokgv0dQw

[Litmaster]

Holy Crap!

This has got to be up for thread of the year, I swear... :excited:

[Nate Eeez]

There is a whole other world out there we are so unaware of. I will stay in my world or I'll get the hose again.

[Condor]

It's not like Gatekeeper walks around in full BDSM outfits with a ball gag, or a banana boat with feathers or any other stereotypically gay outfit one might see in the village during Pride week (I've been there. I've seen it). He doesn't call people honey, or squeal when he gets upset and profess his undying love for Cher/Barbra/Celine.
That we know of... lol
Although given the story, that would make one hell of an unexpected twist. lmao



Some of us aren't underage and that's what Private messages are for.
PS I have a poor imagination. :DThis link might help. While not topless, Luna Guardian is in a ripped shirt.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?2562-Halloween-Costume-Pictures!&p=30936&viewfull=1#post30936
For the record, that comment wasn't specifically directed at any one person although it certainly came across that way.

[yarri]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CQokgv0dQw

Awesome and I <3 you

[Osiris]

Remember that time we all had fun?


Good times.

[Z Sniper]

Alright, the buck stops here! You wanna know why I was so upset at Fernando's death? Because the dude owed me 50 bucks and he made the best damn fish tacos in zombieland, that's why! Now I'm out 50 bucks and no tacos, why do you think I said "DAMMIT!" when he got bit,...cause I ain't gettin' my half Benjamin dude! Oh and the ex-wife thing,...that woman was hotter than a jalapeño dipped in habanero hot sauce! Let's just say her milk shake brought all the boys to the yard, nuff said! As for my homie Saul, that guy can be a real jerk at times but I'd lather his back with sun tan lotion any day! Oh, maybe that was going a bit overboard but you get what I'm saying! Peace out!

[Osiris]

Alright, the buck stops here! You wanna know why I was so upset at Fernando's death? Because the dude owed me 50 bucks and he made the best damn fish tacos in zombieland, that's why! Now I'm out 50 bucks and no tacos, why do you think I said "DAMMIT!" when he got bit,...cause I ain't gettin' my half Benjamin dude! Oh and the ex-wife thing,...that woman was hotter than a jalapeño dipped in habanero hot sauce! Let's just say her milk shake brought all the boys to the yard, nuff said! As for my homie Saul, that guy can be a real jerk at times but I'd lather his back with sun tan lotion any day! Oh, maybe that was going a bit overboard but you get what I'm saying! Peace out!

You've officially creeped me out, brochacho.

[Vlarken]

*involuntary imagining of Victor lathering Saul with suntan lotion* :mad: The eyes!!! Ze burnn, O Gott im Himmel.

[nikvoodoo]

Otto....you're awesome. That is all.

[Solanine]

Agreed.

[Solanine]

Wait. I responded to a diffrent comment, I don't agree with Nick. Ever. Just on principal.

[nikvoodoo]

Wait. I responded to a diffrent comment, I don't agree with Nick. Ever. Just on principal.

Too late. Already looks like you did. :p

And now for a conundrum: We're Alive is awesome.

[Solanine]

I disagree, awesome is to common a word. Try Exceptional.

[UndeadSweeper]

*involuntary imagining of Victor lathering Saul with suntan lotion* :mad: The eyes!!! Ze burnn, O Gott im Himmel.

Come on, you know that was just for the ladies :cool:

A great image for We're Alive Pin-up calender.

Also Mr. Nov. is Burt

[Osiris]

Wait. I responded to a diffrent comment, I don't agree with Nick. Ever. Just on principal.


Too late. Already looks like you did. :p

And now for a conundrum: We're Alive is awesome.

Bitches be trippin'.

[thisonegirl]

OK, I just finished catching up. Three seaons in about a week and a half, and let me tell you, my jaw. . .

. . . is dropped.

Hmm, there is no dropped jaw emoticon, therefore :D

[thisonegirl]

I actually don't have that much to say about this chapter as a whole, Chapter 30 I had so many questions that I had to write them all down but I don't have much for this chapter. We got to see a different side to Scratch but that didn't last long and CJ yet again showed us that she has skilled ways.

I agree, Scratch's other side wasn't there for long, but I'm kind of glad, not because I don't like her, but because she has to be around all these badasses and she's a woman. It's not that she won't be (for lack of a better word) soft, she can't be it, she'd be torn apart. I gotta say though, I am liking her more and more. . . . Is the a Scratch fan-club somewhere?

[daredevil]

Come on, you know that was just for the ladies :cool:

A great image for We're Alive Pin-up calender.

Also Mr. Nov. is Burt

With the missing finger and everything? I'm sure the prominent ribbs and scars would make it a best seller.

[Osiris]

With the missing finger and everything? I'm sure the prominent ribbs and scars would make it a best seller.

You obviously haven't seen any titty calendars, porn, or advertisement for sunscreen lately. Ribs are in, son.

[UndeadSweeper]

With the missing finger and everything? I'm sure the prominent ribbs and scars would make it a best seller.

Sorry, these were pre-colony so it just him, Shirley and bear skin rug...

[lenarinn]

Sorry, these were pre-colony so it just him, Shirley and bear skin rug...

I would buy that Calender!

[Fordraceboy]

You obviously haven't seen any titty calendars, porn, or advertisement for sunscreen lately. Ribs are in, son.

This has my vote for ROFL post of the day.

[Big G]

Does anybody think that we might see Victor run into Lizzy when he is sneaking around the colony

[UndeadSweeper]

Does anybody think that we might see Victor run into Lizzy when he is sneaking around the colony

I think it will probably be Bricks or even Gatekeeper who still sore bc of his short reign.

[lenarinn]

Well thats assuming Gatekeeper is still Alive too. I mean he killed that last person in charge of the Colony I'm not sure Durai would leave him alive and risk it happening a second time.

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm guessing he still is. Since all the Guardian all still in tack. Gatekeeper is probably the trend that keep them organized.

[Vlarken]

I'm guessing he still is. Since all the Guardian all still in tack. Gatekeeper is probably the trend that keep them organized.

I agree with this. The Mallers couldn't handle all those people on their own. I bet Scratch and Durai offered Gatekeeper some lofty position after the Colony's defeat so that he could take care of controlling the Colony inhabitants. He's too useful and cunning to just kill, but I also have a feeling that if this is the case, he's biding his time to strike at the Mallers so that he can gain full control. I bet he'll side with Victor, Saul and CJ when they try to hand out guns to the Colony people, and help them take back the place, but then double-cross them afterwards.

[daredevil]

I agree with this. The Mallers couldn't handle all those people on their own. I bet Scratch and Durai offered Gatekeeper some lofty position after the Colony's defeat so that he could take care of controlling the Colony inhabitants. He's too useful and cunning to just kill, but I also have a feeling that if this is the case, he's biding his time to strike at the Mallers so that he can gain full control. I bet he'll side with Victor, Saul and CJ when they try to hand out guns to the Colony people, and help them take back the place, but then double-cross them afterwards.

I think he'd be rather happy with his spot and he'd turn Vic in.

[UndeadSweeper]

I think he'd be rather happy with his spot and he'd turn Vic in.

Marcus would like to have a word with you. :)

[Vlarken]

Marcus would like to have a word with you. :)

That's a good point. Gatekeeper definitely doesn't have a history of being content with his designated position.

[daredevil]

Marcus would like to have a word with you. :)

Shit... I forgot Marcus and Sean...... I retract my statement.

I still think he'll turn them in though.

[Solanine]

Still, I don't see why they have to start a revolution. Why not just sneak in via the sewers, find Lizzy and get out. Although this way CJ can give Scratch another scar with her sword. On that subject am I the only one who finds it suspicious that the sword is fine after killling people. I'm no expert but is there really still swords made that are of high enough quality to lop of limbs? I'd of thought most would be cheal replica's more likely to shatter on hitting bone than cut through. Just sayin.

[daredevil]

Still, I don't see why they have to start a revolution. Why not just sneak in via the sewers, find Lizzy and get out. Although this way CJ can give Scratch another scar with her sword. On that subject am I the only one who finds it suspicious that the sword is fine after killling people. I'm no expert but is there really still swords made that are of high enough quality to lop of limbs? I'd of thought most would be cheal replica's more likely to shatter on hitting bone than cut through. Just sayin.

I'd think that Lizzy would be protected by bricks 90% of the time.

Yeah, most decorative swords would, unless it's a proper sword.... or she hardened it and strengthened it herself... which is possible but highly unlikely.

[UndeadSweeper]

Shit... I forgot Marcus and Sean...... I retract my statement.

I still think he'll turn them in though.

He will, but CJ would probably a plan include that. I almost feel it going to be a scene from the Princess Bride. A Battle of Wits.

[daredevil]

He will, but CJ would probably a plan include that. I almost feel it going to be a scene from the Princess Bride. A Battle of Wits.

A battle of wits, concluding in a battle of machine guns.

[Solanine]

My favourite kind.

[UndeadSweeper]

A battle of wits, concluding in a battle of machine guns.

You also forgot what weaponry CJ has. The Maller raided Lock and Loaded and Dunbar raided the Army base. Machine guns to Gatling gun doesn't seem fair :)

Secondly, could Durai be the one to kill Scratch? She been the one to stir up the hornet nest with the tower. She the one to had the shot taken at the Maller and basically cause the death of her own brother. Then she when back again without his knowledge. Maybe he just said if I killed Scratch, you don't bother me I won't bother you.

[daredevil]

You also forgot what weaponry CJ has. The Maller raided Lock and Loaded and Dunbar raided the Army base. Machine guns to Gatling gun doesn't seem fair :)

Secondly, could Durai be the one to kill Scratch? She been the one to stir up the hornet nest with the tower. She the one to had the shot taken at the Maller and basically cause the death of her own brother. Then she when back again without his knowledge. Maybe he just said if I killed Scratch, you don't bother me I won't bother you.

He won't kill her because of The Families. If I'm not mistaken, Lizzy said that Durai had one of those rings too and the only reason why he'd have one of those is if he was in the family. And Family don't kill Family.

[UndeadSweeper]

He won't kill her because of The Families. If I'm not mistaken, Lizzy said that Durai had one of those rings too and the only reason why he'd have one of those is if he was in the family. And Family don't kill Family.

But Scratch "killed" family when she led her brother to his death. And eye for an eye. ;-0 Durai could said.

[Penguine]

You also forgot what weaponry CJ has. The Maller raided Lock and Loaded and Dunbar raided the Army base. Machine guns to Gatling gun doesn't seem fair :).

CJ's crew, when they raided the Army base, I don't think got away with much ammo. IIRC When Angel and Kalani were there Angel said something about there being a lot of guns in the armory but not a whole lot of ammunition, just a couple boxes of 5.56 rounds. The mallers probably would of come away with more ammo from Locked n Loaded.

[Solanine]

hate to say it but this is CJ we're talking about. I very much doubt she's come all this way with a couple of 9mm rounds. Also the whole Idea is that they lead a rebellion, there by stealing the Mallers supplies and using them against them. If Viccy can pull it of then the Mallers are screwed. Out numbered, out gunned and with little chance of escape due to the defensive measures that previously kept them safe.

[UndeadSweeper]

hate to say it but this is CJ we're talking about. I very much doubt she's come all this way with a couple of 9mm rounds. Also the whole Idea is that they lead a rebellion, there by stealing the Mallers supplies and using them against them. If Viccy can pull it of then the Mallers are screwed. Out numbered, out gunned and with little chance of escape due to the defensive measures that previously kept them safe.

How about blowing up the weapon cache? One artillery mortar can probably take out the cache. I don't remember them said anything about a roof.

[Vlarken]

How about blowing up the weapon cache? One artillery mortar can probably take out the cache. I don't remember them said anything about a roof.

I doubt that the Mallers would keep their weapons cache out in the open. The Colony itself, of course, doesn't have a roof, but there are tons of buildings within it that do. Some of those roofs are probably pretty heavy duty as well. If they're going to blow up the Maller's weapon cache, they'd probably have to use some sort of other explosive, and set it directly inside the building where the Mallers keep their stock.


hate to say it but this is CJ we're talking about. I very much doubt she's come all this way with a couple of 9mm rounds. Also the whole Idea is that they lead a rebellion, there by stealing the Mallers supplies and using them against them. If Viccy can pull it of then the Mallers are screwed. Out numbered, out gunned and with little chance of escape due to the defensive measures that previously kept them safe.

She definitely didn't come all that way with just a few 9MM rounds, she's got that van full of weapons, remember? They wont need to steal the Maller's stock of weapons, because they've got enough already. However, like was pointed out earlier, blowing up the Maller's weapon cache would be a good idea. That way there wouldn't even be a true battle, and the Mallers and their Colony underlings would have no choice but to surrender.

[GeneTwo]

She has an armored SWAT van! While the WA tower crew were twiddling there thumbs and Scratch was freeing the prisoners, CJ's crew could have raided the closest police station for weapons and radios.

[daredevil]

But Scratch "killed" family when she led her brother to his death. And eye for an eye. ;-0 Durai could said.

She didn't killing him though, he was an unfortunate casualty in the war against the Tower folk. In there eyes she was killed by Pegs. Not Scratch. Scratch was just lucky enough not to go first. Scratch could have gone first but that would be bad writing, killing off this much opportunity... and Kc is not a bad writer.

[daredevil]

She has an armored SWAT van! While the WA tower crew were twiddling there thumbs and Scratch was freeing the prisoners, CJ's crew could have raided the closest police station for weapons and radios.

Yeah, the Tower crew were a little stupid in there preparation. Hopefully The Fort was not.

[reaper239]

CJ's crew, when they raided the Army base, I don't think got away with much ammo. IIRC When Angel and Kalani were there Angel said something about there being a lot of guns in the armory but not a whole lot of ammunition, just a couple boxes of 5.56 rounds. The mallers probably would of come away with more ammo from Locked n Loaded.

the nasty guard armory would not be light on ammo. there would be enough there to pacify large portions of LA. they're not going to have guns and no ammo. when kalani and angel went to the armory it was long after the dunbar raid.

[reaper239]

You also forgot what weaponry CJ has. The Maller raided Lock and Loaded and Dunbar raided the Army base. Machine guns to Gatling gun doesn't seem fair :)


they wouldn't have gatling guns, those are typically on aircraft. at most they'd have M203 grenades, maybe AT4s or LAWs, M16/M4s, M249 SAWs, and possibly M240B. nless they grabbed a .50 off of a humvee, the heaviest they would have would be the 7.62 from the 240. they might have 40 mm grenades, but it takes time t learn to use those properly since those are indirect fire weapons. i doubt they would have any kind of rocket system since that wouldn't exactly be necessary for suppressing riots. if they're toting MP5s (which for some reason i feel they are (maybe it's the wat van)) then the weapons they have most likely came from the police station, in which case they would have MP5s (9mm), M4s (5.56mm), Shotguns, smoke and flash grenades... that's about all i'm getting on this one. maybe i'll think of more later. the easiest weapons to put in the hands of anyone and get them fighting woul be the M16/M4, MP5, and shotgun. of course if they made their first stop the maller armory i'm sure they'd find AKs (the most prolific rifle in the world) and those are about as plug and play as you can get.

[UndeadSweeper]

they wouldn't have gatling guns, those are typically on aircraft. at most they'd have M203 grenades, maybe AT4s or LAWs, M16/M4s, M249 SAWs, and possibly M240B. nless they grabbed a .50 off of a humvee, the heaviest they would have would be the 7.62 from the 240. they might have 40 mm grenades, but it takes time t learn to use those properly since those are indirect fire weapons. i doubt they would have any kind of rocket system since that wouldn't exactly be necessary for suppressing riots. if they're toting MP5s (which for some reason i feel they are (maybe it's the wat van)) then the weapons they have most likely came from the police station, in which case they would have MP5s (9mm), M4s (5.56mm), Shotguns, smoke and flash grenades... that's about all i'm getting on this one. maybe i'll think of more later. the easiest weapons to put in the hands of anyone and get them fighting woul be the M16/M4, MP5, and shotgun. of course if they made their first stop the maller armory i'm sure they'd find AKs (the most prolific rifle in the world) and those are about as plug and play as you can get.

O_O' I will take the shiny one......

[reaper239]

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[Solanine]

the nasty guard armory would not be light on ammo. there would be enough there to pacify large portions of LA. they're not going to have guns and no ammo. when kalani and angel went to the armory it was long after the dunbar raid.
That would have been m,y expectation too but Angel seemed to think tyhere wasn't much ammo left BEFORE he checked it out with Kalani. He said something along the lines of having used most of it down at the range recently.

[GeneTwo]

Ammo question for military folks. Say, 1000 rounds. That sounds like a lot of bullets to me. Does that transfer over to the military or does 1k rounds seem like a small amount when you take into account firefights and the size of a squad and that kind of stuff. So when Saul says that there wasn't that much ammo at the guard station there could have been like 1k to 5k rounds.

[Cabbage Patch]

Ammo question for military folks. Say, 1000 rounds. That sounds like a lot of bullets to me. Does that transfer over to the military or does 1k rounds seem like a small amount when you take into account firefights and the size of a squad and that kind of stuff. So when Saul says that there wasn't that much ammo at the guard station there could have been like 1k to 5k rounds.

In my last unit the "guard ammo" in the arms room consisted of 50 rounds of 45 caliber and 100 rounds of M-16, in magazines, in a locked ammo can. Just enough to provide ammo a single magazine for each member of a small guard detail.

As for whether 1,000 rounds of ammo is a lot, it's relative. It's far more than a foot soldier can comfortably carry, but it's not much at all for an armored vehicle. And don't forget that different rounds have different sizes and weights.

An M-16 magazine, loaded with 30 rounds of 5.56mm ammo, weighs about a pound. 1,000 rounds in magazines is about 34 pounds. A 100 round belt of 7.62mm machinegun ammo weighs about 7 pounds, so 1,000 rounds is about 70 pounds. Ammo weight and bulk add up fast, making it hard for a man to carry on him.

In contrast an M-1 tank has three machineguns (a 50 caliber and two 7.62 mms), and carries over 20,000 rounds of ammo for them. All that ammo weighs close to a ton, but that's not a big deal for a big, powerful vehicle like a tank.

[UndeadSweeper]

I finally re-listen and remember two things. CJ saying to them "Quiet, children" and the police station remind me of RE 2, since it had the door sound.

[Hellbringer]

In my last unit the "guard ammo" in the arms room consisted of 50 rounds of 45 caliber and 100 rounds of M-16, in magazines, in a locked ammo can. Just enough to provide ammo a single magazine for each member of a small guard detail.

As for whether 1,000 rounds of ammo is a lot, it's relative. It's far more than a foot soldier can comfortably carry, but it's not much at all for an armored vehicle. And don't forget that different rounds have different sizes and weights.

An M-16 magazine, loaded with 30 rounds of 5.56mm ammo, weighs about a pound. 1,000 rounds in magazines is about 34 pounds. A 100 round belt of 7.62mm machinegun ammo weighs about 7 pounds, so 1,000 rounds is about 70 pounds. Ammo weight and bulk add up fast, making it hard for a man to carry on him.

In contrast an M-1 tank has three machineguns (a 50 caliber and two 7.62 mms), and carries over 20,000 rounds of ammo for them. All that ammo weighs close to a ton, but that's not a big deal for a big, powerful vehicle like a tank.

Boo-yeah! Cabbage Patch for the win (oh, how I hate using that phrase though... FTW used to mean something else to me. But alas, I'm old.)

And for some of you, imagine how little 1000 rounds of vulcan ammo would be. Not size-wise, but how quickly it could be spent. And then compare that to 1000 rounds for a desert eagle or an old six-shooter.

[Condor]

Ammo question for military folks. Say, 1000 rounds. That sounds like a lot of bullets to me. Does that transfer over to the military or does 1k rounds seem like a small amount when you take into account firefights and the size of a squad and that kind of stuff. So when Saul says that there wasn't that much ammo at the guard station there could have been like 1k to 5k rounds.I'm not military, but 1000, 5000, doesn't sound like a lot to me. lol.


In my last unit the "guard ammo" in the arms room consisted of 50 rounds of 45 caliber and 100 rounds of M-16, in magazines, in a locked ammo can. Just enough to provide ammo a single magazine for each member of a small guard detail.

As for whether 1,000 rounds of ammo is a lot, it's relative. It's far more than a foot soldier can comfortably carry, but it's not much at all for an armored vehicle. And don't forget that different rounds have different sizes and weights.

An M-16 magazine, loaded with 30 rounds of 5.56mm ammo, weighs about a pound. 1,000 rounds in magazines is about 34 pounds. A 100 round belt of 7.62mm machinegun ammo weighs about 7 pounds, so 1,000 rounds is about 70 pounds. Ammo weight and bulk add up fast, making it hard for a man to carry on him.

In contrast an M-1 tank has three machineguns (a 50 caliber and two 7.62 mms), and carries over 20,000 rounds of ammo for them. All that ammo weighs close to a ton, but that's not a big deal for a big, powerful vehicle like a tank.
Relative, that's a good way to look at it. From what I understand, that's one of the main reasons the US adopted the 5.56 rd as opposed to the larger (and of course heavier) 7.62x39 rd, to allow soldiers to carry more ammo.
When you say 7.62, that's 7.62x51mm (or .308) right?
Also, doesn't the military downloaded M-16 mags to 29rds?

Relating that back to WA. Back when Michael, and the others escaped The Colony, Victor, Pegs, and Kelly raid the weapons and grab "all the ammo". At best, they could have only carried a couple thousand rounds between the 3 of them. With a compound as large as The Colony, they should have had tens, if not hundreds of thousands of rounds between what they could scavenge and surely they would set up some type of ammo production facility. All they would need is a few loading presses and the raw materials.

[Cabbage Patch]

When you say 7.62, that's 7.62x51mm (or .308) right?
Also, doesn't the military downloaded M-16 mags to 29rds?

Yes, 7.62 NATO, AKA 7.62 x 51 or .308 Winchester.

With M-16 magazines you're talking about are the "20 round" aluminum magazines that were issued during the Vietnam War. They were still in circulation when I entered the service, and it was an old-sergeant's tale that you should never put more than 19 rounds into one to keep them from jamming. The 30 round aluminum magazines that replaced them were fine with 30 rounds, as are the more modern plastic magazines that are rapidly replacing them.


Back when Michael, and the others escaped The Colony, Victor, Pegs, and Kelly raid the weapons and grab "all the ammo". At best, they could have only carried a couple thousand rounds between the 3 of them. With a compound as large as The Colony, they should have had tens, if not hundreds of thousands of rounds between what they could scavenge...

It does strike me as odd that the Colony would be so short of ammunition that a few people could carry off their reserves. We know the Colony cleaned out the County Sheriff's office, and I assume they also emptied the Police Department HQ next door. Of course we don't know how much ammo they had to use to secure the Colony at the start of the outbreak.