Chapter 31 Family Ties Part 2

[nikvoodoo]

Happy Release Monday! Post your thoughts on today's episode here!

[VEE]

Wasn't enough meat in it and it was too short and I don't understand why Datu was dressed in a spiderman suit.

[Kc]

Wasn't enough meat in it and it was too short and I don't understand why Datu was dressed in a spiderman suit.

Pfft :P

[UndeadSweeper]

I have a heart for a her and she tear it out. O_o' KC please stop this :)

Burt is not going to die until he bring down Scarface!

[Penguine]

Umm... wow... good episode. It seemed short (as in I was into it and it seemed to fly-by) but damn, that was intense. I'm feeling for Burt and I am hoping he gets to beat the life out of Scratch right now. When she pulled out the hammer I was thinking she was going to beat Burt with it, when she pulled out Shirley I about cried right along with Burt. Why would you smash the hell out of a Desert Eagle? ARGH!!! I understand why she did it, but damn.. that is one powerful piece of weaponry she destroyed. When she pulled out the knife I was thinking "well there goes the finger", and sure enough... OUCH! Bricks seems to be more and more going to the otherside. I half expected Scratch to move on Burt and Bricks beat the crap out of her and leave her lying there and then release Burt setting up Part 3 for Saul, Victor, and CJ to come down and get them all out. Can not wait for the next episode.

[Penguine]

I have a heart for a her and she tear it out. O_o' KC please stop this :)

Burt is not going to die until he bring down Scarface!

Yeah I was liking Scratch last week.. lol.. she is back on the shiz list. :mad:

[UndeadSweeper]

Anyone notice that Brick almost hulk out there. "It's mine knife now!" This the first time we saw Scar put in her place. She kept avoid talking to Brick and only talk to Burt. Nor did she said anything to Bricks about what she was going to him for going against her.

Mark my words, if Burt dies it will be here with Scarface.

Also Britt, Voodoo or Greg please buy a drink for Burt he had a bad day......

[HardKor]

Anyone notice that Brick almost hulk out there. "It's mine knife now!" This the first time we saw Scar put in her place. She kept avoid talking to Brick and only talk to Burt. Nor did she said anything to Bricks about what she was going to him for going against her.

Mark my words, if Burt dies it will be here with Scarface.

Also Britt, Voodoo or Greg please buy a drink for Burt he had a bad day......

Yeah, Bricks is just about at his limit with dealing with Scratch I think. It's looking more and more likely that he's going to turn on the Mallers.
As for Burt, I'm starting to think he isn't going to make it out of this. We're seeing him be systematically dismantled before our eyes (ears?). I'm thinking he's about at the end of his storyline and might just end up going out to help Saul and Lizzie (and Vic, CJ and Bricks too, hopefully) escape.

[awkwardalex]

I think this episode ended with, "Holy Shit!" From everyone, that was intense. The whole time I was like,"give her a fake location! Not Shirley! NOT HIS FINGER! Oh God why!?"

[reaper239]

Wasn't enough meat in it and it was too short and I don't understand why Datu was dressed in a spiderman suit.

...

i think you tuned into the rickroll man.

[reaper239]

Yeah, Bricks is just about at his limit with dealing with Scratch I think. It's looking more and more likely that he's going to turn on the Mallers.
As for Burt, I'm starting to think he isn't going to make it out of this. We're seeing him be systematically dismantled before our eyes (ears?). I'm thinking he's about at the end of his storyline and might just end up going out to help Saul and Lizzie (and Vic, CJ and Bricks too, hopefully) escape.

i can't wait for bricks to help burt use that knife on her. like newlyweds cutting a wedding cake.

[AdrianHD]

I have work in 10 minutes, and I'm totally going to be late, but this was the hardest scene to digest. Honestly, the Samantha episode had NOTHING on this. I can only hope that Burt's scene was taking place relatively close to when Saul, Vic, and CJ plan to make their move.


Edit: I'm not fretting much about Burt as it is though. Losing his finger means:
::Walking Dead Comic Spoilers::
Maybe we got another Rick Grimes here.

[UndeadSweeper]

I have work in 10 minutes, and I'm totally going to be late, but this was the hardest scene to digest. Honestly, the Samantha episode had NOTHING on this. I can only hope that Burt's scene was taking place relatively close to when Saul, Vic, and CJ plan to make their move.


Edit: I'm not fretting much about Burt as it is though. Losing his finger means:
::Walking Dead Comic Spoilers::
Maybe we got another Rick Grimes here.

I was think about Walking Dead but the Gov. scene instead.

[yarri]

Dear CJ,
I think you are wonderful. You are my new hero.

Love,

Yarri

[Mikeyd2tall]

remember how i said i felt for scratch? Good job Kc! you fixed that in the next episode! :D

[yarri]

I want her dead again. No pity, no mercy and slow. I want her done slow. I'd have more compassion for a rabid dog then I do for Scratch.

Thank you Jenna I <3 you!!!!!!!!! You make me love to hate her!!!!

[Penguine]

Anyone else get the idea that CJ really has her stuff together? She had a SWAT van hidden somewhere full of weapons. Smart woman. Seems like her #1 priority was to get guns, a LOT of guns, and ammo stocked up. I'm glad CJ is on Saul and Victors side.

[awkwardalex]

I want her dead again. No pity, no mercy and slow. I want her done slow. I'd have more compassion for a rabid dog then I do for Scratch.

Thank you Jenna I <3 you!!!!!!!!! You make me love to hate her!!!!

I cannot wait for Osiris to spin this to Scratchs favor

[yarri]

I cannot wait for Osiris to spin this to Scratchs favor

I feel like I'm on a roller coaster ride and Jenna's driving. LOL

[awkwardalex]

Anyone else get the idea that CJ really has her stuff together? She had a SWAT van hidden somewhere full of weapons. Smart woman. Seems like her #1 priority was to get guns, a LOT of guns, and ammo stocked up. I'm glad CJ is on Saul and Victors side.


Or is she? I like Cj but I'm still a little leery of her.

[awkwardalex]

R1ath will disagree but...Burts scene was way more intense and tramatic than Angels

[yarri]

R1ath will disagree but...Burts scene was way more intense and tramatic than Angels

I cried. Poor Burt. I'm allowed to cry I'm female.

[Savvi]

I was think about Walking Dead but the Gov. scene instead.

I reminiscenced the torture scene from The Divide. Its exactly the same concept, one held down the captive and the other played Gordon Ramsay's Hell's Kitchen. =P

I think Burt lost the will to live now. He lost Shirley and his trigger finger. =(

[yarri]

I reminiscenced the torture scene from The Divide. Its exactly the same concept, one held down the captive and the other played Gordon Ramsay's Hell's Kitchen. =P

I think Burt lost the will to live now. He lost Shirley and his trigger finger. =(


I disagree, Burt has survived this shit for months. He's not done yet. United States Marines are some of the most stubborn, willful, hard nosed creatures in the world. I say this with great pride as I'm the sister of one. Marines never surrender and never ever quit. Burt isn't done yet.

[Lukas A.]

Very hard to listen to, I wanted sooo bad for scratch to take his challenge of a fight.
. I was closer to tears then I've been for a long time, more intense than the Samantha scene.
. Great episode.

Edit:
Also the sharp sounds of the hammer and knife added a really cool effect that made this scene more visceral and more powerful, and OF COURSE Scott Marvin's AMAZING acting was heart reaching with his cries

Couldn't ask for any better

[Savvi]

I disagree, Burt has survived this shit for months. He's not done yet. United States Marines are some of the most stubborn, willful, hard nosed creatures in the world. I say this with great pride as I'm the sister of one. Marines never surrender and never ever quit. Burt isn't done yet.

They are? I didn't know. =O
Reading your comment, I'm guessing Burt will try and kill Scarface whatever the means too. =O

[awkwardalex]

I cried. Poor Burt. I'm allowed to cry I'm female.

I did 2 yarri

*girlytears*

[awkwardalex]

They are? I didn't know. =O
Reading your comment, I'm guessing Burt will try and kill Scarface whatever the means too. =O

Oh most definatly after what she did to shirley. He was ready to kill her already.

If scratch really wants to get burt to talk she needs to bring in Lizzy. Burt has a soft spot for lizzy and saul, seeing lizzy pregnant would tip the scales

[yarri]

Oh most definatly after what she did to shirley. He was ready to kill her already.

If scratch really wants to get burt to talk she needs to bring in Lizzy. Burt has a soft spot for lizzy and saul, seeing lizzy pregnant would tip the scales

::WAILS:: shhhhh don't give Kc anymore twisted ideas. :)

[UndeadSweeper]

Anyone else get the idea that CJ really has her stuff together? She had a SWAT van hidden somewhere full of weapons. Smart woman. Seems like her #1 priority was to get guns, a LOT of guns, and ammo stocked up. I'm glad CJ is on Saul and Victors side.

Can someone explain half the stuff she was talking about? I thought I may have missed something.

[UndeadSweeper]

::WAILS:: shhhhh don't give Kc anymore twisted ideas. :)

Give KC anymore? Lady, that man is mess up. :D

[Ray]

I'm pretty upset that Scratch has become a cliche character, even after she had some hope of being interesting. I was hoping better for her, but she's the "token black guy" (if you will) of We're Alive now and I sincerely wished it wasn't that way. Oh well, I can skip over parts where she shows up because it's easily seen exactly what she's going to do and exactly what she'll say now. I thought that CJ has become another weak character as well. She's got an overblown ego and is rife with hypocrisy. She demands that Saul and Vic risk their life for information, and then acts like it's a slap in the face when they do the same. The ONLY reason CJ is still alive is because of other people, and because Ink for some reason spared her life. Without Sean, and Ink letting her live she'd be long dead by now and if I were Saul and Vic I'd leave her for dead. The very second she referred to them as "tenants" I would have taken whatever supplies I needed and left. If she raised a finger to stop me, she'd get a bullet for her troubles. I LOVE We're Alive, but two of possibly the most interesting characters have become cliche and predictable. Shame. Good episode though, Burt is going to have fun tearing Scratch limb from limb.

[Penguine]

Can someone explain half the stuff she was talking about? I thought I may have missed something.


Eek.. hope yer not refering to Penguine as a she, cause I'm a he! anyway.... after Saul and Victor meet up with CJ the SWAT van is mentioned. At about 8:37 Saul mentioned "there was something there too... a large, black, armored van" and Victor says something like "Where'd you get the SWAT van?" ALl the guns in the van come from her mentioning the gun racks in the van and Saul mentioning 1 good gun is better then all these, or something like that.

[yarri]

I'm pretty upset that Scratch has become a cliche character, even after she had some hope of being interesting. I was hoping better for her, but she's the "token black guy" (if you will) of We're Alive now and I sincerely wished it wasn't that way. Oh well, I can skip over parts where she shows up because it's easily seen exactly what she's going to do and exactly what she'll say now. I thought that CJ has become another weak character as well. She's got an overblown ego and is rife with hypocrisy. She demands that Saul and Vic risk their life for information, and then acts like it's a slap in the face when they do the same. The ONLY reason CJ is still alive is because of other people, and because Ink for some reason spared her life. Without Sean, and Ink letting her live she'd be long dead by now and if I were Saul and Vic I'd leave her for dead. The very second she referred to them as "tenants" I would have taken whatever supplies I needed and left. If she raised a finger to stop me, she'd get a bullet for her troubles. I LOVE We're Alive, but two of possibly the most interesting characters have become cliche and predictable. Shame. Good episode though, Burt is going to have fun tearing Scratch limb from limb.

How cliche and predictable to assume Burt will tear her limb from limb. I would hope he would do something more interesting like peel her skin like an orange or cook her over a slow fire. Or maybe just maybe Riley will be the one to cut her apart. piece by piece. I've always thought that a chef would have excellent knife skills.

[yarri]

Give KC anymore? Lady, that man is mess up. :D

Yes, yes he is.... :meh:

[Cabbage Patch]

Anyone else get the idea that CJ really has her stuff together? She had a SWAT van hidden somewhere full of weapons. Smart woman. Seems like her #1 priority was to get guns, a LOT of guns, and ammo stocked up. I'm glad CJ is on Saul and Victors side.

I wonder when CJ got the SWAT van, and if she shared that information with her prior "tenants". An armored van full of guns might have made all the difference when the Dunbar Tower survivors attacked the Arena to rescue Samantha. If they were kept in the dark about its existence than I think that's another hit on CJ's leadership.

[Penguine]

I'm pretty upset that Scratch has become a cliche character, even after she had some hope of being interesting. I was hoping better for her, but she's the "token black guy" (if you will) of We're Alive now and I sincerely wished it wasn't that way. Oh well, I can skip over parts where she shows up because it's easily seen exactly what she's going to do and exactly what she'll say now. I thought that CJ has become another weak character as well. She's got an overblown ego and is rife with hypocrisy. She demands that Saul and Vic risk their life for information, and then acts like it's a slap in the face when they do the same. The ONLY reason CJ is still alive is because of other people, and because Ink for some reason spared her life. Without Sean, and Ink letting her live she'd be long dead by now and if I were Saul and Vic I'd leave her for dead. The very second she referred to them as "tenants" I would have taken whatever supplies I needed and left. If she raised a finger to stop me, she'd get a bullet for her troubles. I LOVE We're Alive, but two of possibly the most interesting characters have become cliche and predictable. Shame. Good episode though, Burt is going to have fun tearing Scratch limb from limb.

Guess you could say the same thing about Saul... The Knight in Shining Armor going to rescue the Damsel in distress. Blah.. how cliche is that?

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm pretty upset that Scratch has become a cliche character, even after she had some hope of being interesting. I was hoping better for her, but she's the "token black guy" (if you will) of We're Alive now and I sincerely wished it wasn't that way. Oh well, I can skip over parts where she shows up because it's easily seen exactly what she's going to do and exactly what she'll say now. I thought that CJ has become another weak character as well. She's got an overblown ego and is rife with hypocrisy. She demands that Saul and Vic risk their life for information, and then acts like it's a slap in the face when they do the same. The ONLY reason CJ is still alive is because of other people, and because Ink for some reason spared her life. Without Sean, and Ink letting her live she'd be long dead by now and if I were Saul and Vic I'd leave her for dead. The very second she referred to them as "tenants" I would have taken whatever supplies I needed and left. If she raised a finger to stop me, she'd get a bullet for her troubles. I LOVE We're Alive, but two of possibly the most interesting characters have become cliche and predictable. Shame. Good episode though, Burt is going to have fun tearing Scratch limb from limb.

Can you explain "Scratch has become a cliche character"? My understand is when an actor/actress can can bring you to the point where are affect by very own emotions they are far away from being cliche.

[UndeadSweeper]

Eek.. hope yer not refering to Penguine as a she, cause I'm a he! anyway.... after Saul and Victor meet up with CJ the SWAT van is mentioned. At about 8:37 Saul mentioned "there was something there too... a large, black, armored van" and Victor says something like "Where'd you get the SWAT van?" ALl the guns in the van come from her mentioning the gun racks in the van and Saul mentioning 1 good gun is better then all these, or something like that. I meant CJ. She was talk about stuffs in the van.

[Penguine]

I meant CJ. She was talk about stuffs in the van.

Ahh.. :)

[PuddleWhite]

Wasn't enough meat in it and it was too short and I don't understand why Datu was dressed in a spiderman suit.
It was because he has this great power that he has to learn how to use, DUH! But you are right, what kind of an episode is it where all the characters move less than 1 km, combined :D

Seriously though...
With CJ's brains, Victor's brawn and Saul's heart, this should be the best operation ever to be conducted. CJ's motives for going are too sentimental for CJ, imo, but whatevs, its believable enough. In fact, the team is sooo perfect i just cant see them pulling it off without any problems, its just too perfect.
We didn't learn anything new about Scratch, nor did she do anything we wouldn't have put by her, so i don't know what all the ''i liked her but now i don't'' is about. Burt must either reinvent himself (cant be the shooter without a trigger finger), die or die killing Scratch. My money is on the last. My hopes are that Scratch lives, but all the cards are stacked against her at the moment... I also like to imagine ways that she could actually kill Pegs, or at least make Pegs kill her, and maybe realize that in life, you sometimes have to do things you don't like, but thats impossibleX2.

[Litmaster]

Ugh... man, that was tough to listen to. I had to go back and listen to the Samantha episode to cheer myself up a bit!

Like the rest of you, whatever sparks of sympathy I had for Scratch from the last episode have been utterly snuffed.

Listening to Burt get tortured was the worst moment for me since the series began, and I'm not keen on giving that a re-listen.

[yarri]

Ugh... man, that was tough to listen to. I had to go back and listen to the Samantha episode to cheer myself up a bit!

Like the rest of you, whatever sparks of sympathy I had for Scratch from the last episode have been utterly snuffed.

Listening to Burt get tortured was the worst moment for me since the series began, and I'm not keen on giving that a re-listen.


It was on par with the Lizzie almost gets raped scene (insert a glare at KC and shake my finger at him) I was mad at you for a week over that then I forgave you I don't remember why though. :)

[badhead]

Was Jenna McCombie corpsing during the scene where she smashed Shirley with the hammer?

[Litmaster]

I'm pretty upset that Scratch has become a cliche character, even after she had some hope of being interesting. I was hoping better for her, but she's the "token black guy" (if you will) of We're Alive now and I sincerely wished it wasn't that way. Oh well, I can skip over parts where she shows up because it's easily seen exactly what she's going to do and exactly what she'll say now. ...... I LOVE We're Alive, but two of possibly the most interesting characters have become cliche and predictable


Ok Ray, not sure if you're just trying to be contentious to get some response, or if you even believe what you just wrote, but I'm just not seeing how the Scratch torture scene with Burt suddenly makes her a cliche character.

So it's cliche for the story to have a villain? Or are torture scenes now so overdone that they bore you?

What did you want, for Scratch to be shedding tears in self-conflicting remorse even as she raised the hammer to Shirley? Or to take her clothes off and fuck Burt so as to be less predictable??

Why don't you give some examples of what would have been less 'cliche'--if you can think of any--and enlighten the rest of us with your stunning insight into characterization?

[PuddleWhite]

What Ray said, lets not waste page space
Scratch is a female italian mobster girl who cut of the balls of some guy and is fanatically trying to find and kill her brother's murderer... Maybe she's a patchwork of cliches (i don't agree, but i can see it), but not a cliche herself...
CJ is egocentric, but so are a lot of people, and a lot of survivors. In short term, altruists die first. I don't believe she can be called weak, neither in reference to real life, nor in the story. She's well established to be the woman behind the better, more successful tower (I mean the tower as a tower,not as people living in it).
And i think we can all say that everyone in the story is alive ONLY because this or that happened, so its not something we can lay specifically on CJ's door.

[PuddleWhite]

It was on par with the Lizzie almost gets raped scene (insert a glare at KC and shake my finger at him) I was mad at you for a week over that then I forgave you I don't remember why though. :)
If we had a story where everyone who was good having nothing bad happen or nearly happen to them, WA would be a terribly dull thing to listen to...

[PuddleWhite]

Just look a bit up there, its not that far
Nah, i think he's just writing ''from the heart'' as it were. Some characters you like, some characters you dont, and that changes with time and is very dependednt on your mood and all manner of other things. I think Ray's just overwhelmed still :)

[yarri]

If we had a story where everyone who was good having nothing bad happen or nearly happen to them, WA would be a terribly dull thing to listen to... True very true :P on you for being so damn logical! I don't want to be logical with this.

[yarri]

I will say that this eppy and the last one are my favorite Scratch episodes.

[Litmaster]

All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.


I agree, PuddleWhite! Truer words have never been written, I can tell you that!

[Paolo912]

There is a very special place reserved in the basement of the seventh level of hell for a person who destroys an engraved, made in Israel Desert Eagle.
I have been expecting Scratch to take Burt's finger since episode 24. I was expecting her to take her knife and hide the hammer to chisel the knife thought the bone, she seemed to just slice it off, and considering how much use and abuse her knife gets I seriously doubt I can just whip off a bone and flesh.
Still;Fuck you scratch, you little pice of crap. Love Jenna, but seriously KC, you have created a true monster, props to you. Never thought an writer could get me to hate a fictional character so much.
I usually listen to a new part 4-5 times in a row, but screw that, I can't listen again for once. Gotta give it a day before I listen.

[makidabest]

Spoilers!!!!


Burt is Left-handed. LoL!!!

[PuddleWhite]

I agree, PuddleWhite! Truer words have never been written, I can tell you that!

If thats a joke, its hilarious (i mean with the quotes and all).
If you are mad about me misquoting you, I'm sorry and i apologize.

[yarri]

There is a very special place reserved in the basement of the seventh level of hell for a person who destroys an engraved, made in Israel Desert Eagle.
I have been expecting Scratch to take Burt's finger since episode 24. I was expecting her to take her knife and hide the hammer to chisel the knife thought the bone, she seemed to just slice it off, and considering how much use and abuse her knife gets I seriously doubt I can just whip off a bone and flesh.
Still;Fuck you scratch, you little pice of crap. Love Jenna, but seriously KC, you have created a true monster, props to you. Never thought an writer could get me to hate a fictional character so much.
I usually listen to a new part 4-5 times in a row, but screw that, I can't listen again for once. Gotta give it a day before I listen.

if she took the joint at the right part it would cut clean it would be just like taking the leg off a raw chicken. I've got knives sharp enough to do that.
I think and correct me if I'm wrong he said she (scratch) had some of him in her.... makes you think doesn't it?

[PuddleWhite]

Spoilers!!!!


Burt is Left-handed. LoL!!!
If true, that is the most awesome twist ever known to man (well, maybe after Keyser Söze)...
But, can you tell me where in which chapter it says so... i cant remember it being brought up... Its awesome for a radio drama, though.This whole time, no one would be expecting it, since no one wants to hear '' so he raised his left hand, since he was left handed, and his parents tried to make him write with his right but he never learned, etc. etc.'' , but it could have been...

[Litmaster]

If thats a joke, its hilarious (i mean with the quotes and all).
If you are mad about me misquoting you, I'm sorry and i apologize.

Nope, joke! We're cool... :)

[Kc]

Spoilers!!!!


Burt is Left-handed. LoL!!!

Maybe he is now... But have you ever tried to write anything with your left? (Assuming you're right handed like the rest of the normal people)

DISCLAIMER: No offense was made to the south paws (Is that how it's really spelled? Weird)

BUT. he was right handed. Scratch saw his affinity for the gun and how he used it in Ch 6.

[yarri]

Maybe he is now... But have you ever tried to write anything with your left? (Assuming you're right handed like the rest of the normal people)

DISCLAIMER: No offense was made to the south paws (Is that how it's really spelled? Weird)


as I lose the feeling in my 3 of my 5 fingers any given day of the week I'm pretty good with my left. Necessity is the other of invention. Burt will be just fine!

[reaper239]

every time i go shooting, i always make sure to shoot left handed. it's not as easy, and i'm not as accurate, but i can hit the target. any shooter worth his salt can shoot lefty, and a lot of marksman actually use their middle finger as their trigger finger, because a trick of point shointing is pointing at the target with your index finger. granted, it doesn't sound like burt was a point shooter, and he won't be shooting with that hand for a while, nor will he be at the same level he was before, but burt is far from out of the game imo.

[Ray]

How cliche and predictable to assume Burt will tear her limb from limb. I would hope he would do something more interesting like peel her skin like an orange or cook her over a slow fire. Or maybe just maybe Riley will be the one to cut her apart. piece by piece. I've always thought that a chef would have excellent knife skills.

How is that cliche, and how am I assuming? He said he was going to skullfuck her corpse, with good reason. She destroyed his most prized possession in a weak and desperate attempt to get him to spill the beans. She couldn't be more of a weak character now, and he flat out said he was going to kill her. Tearing her limb from limb was meant as an expression based of him flat out telling her that he was going to kill her in the most brutal and denigrating way possible. Not assumption, and not cliche.



Guess you could say the same thing about Saul... The Knight in Shining Armor going to rescue the Damsel in distress. Blah.. how cliche is that?

Ah yes, but there is another elemtent to that story. She's pregnant. Maybe not his, but maybe it is. He actions are no more cliche than Bricks'. Saul wants to protect her because they have a relationship for one, and now he knows she pregnant so there's even more reason to get her away from those psychotic murderers. I wouldn't call that cliche, I'd call that doing the right thing for people that have risked their lives to protect yours in the past. She basically browbeat Burt to go back when he was mobbed in the Prius, even though she pretty much wanted nothing to do with him that entire trip. So makes perfect sense that he's going back to get her when no one else will. Repay the favor she did for him in a way.


Can you explain "Scratch has become a cliche character"? My understand is when an actor/actress can can bring you to the point where are affect by very own emotions they are far away from being cliche.

She's a murderous psychopath, now she's got a sob story to try and flesh out the one dimension she has and it fails completely. She is trying to project her own sense of warped and illogical "rules" that the families she's in the middle of to a person that killed her brother in self defense. She has one dimension, anger. Misplaced anger. Having her backstory that she was raped and was repaid for cutting her Uncles dick off and then using that set of psychopath rules to justify killing all of Pegs friends to get her back for defending herself is cliche. The evil villian trying to get vengence for a percieved crime against her. The only thing she has is anger, and the rape backstory was a waste of air time. I can't believe anyone would sympathize with her wanting vengence for her brother, and using that as justification for her actions. Rape isn't something to make light of, and it's awful she went through that. Doesn't give her character any more depth or reason to act the way she does. Her wanting to kill Pegs because she killed Latch in self defense has nothing to do with her getting raped, it's just a desperate stab at trying to legitimize her psychotic behavior. How anyone could like a murderous person like her is beyond me. I respect that people have reasons to want to like her, but she's shown nothing more than blind and illogical rage. I felt the same about Kalani. He was just as one dimensionally stupid as Scratch is one dimensionally angry. Scratch has nothing to offer other than misplaced anger, and her character will never really have any depth if they don't give her any reason to exist other than to be fill the external villain role.

Her only strength is being part of these mysterious families. She's physically weak, she's mentally insane, she's a unremorseful murderer, and she's blind with rage. If it weren't for the ring she wears, she'd be long dead. She can't stand up to Bricks, she has to have Bricks hold down Burt so she could cut off his finger without Burt having the chance to rip her arms off, and she has to resort to starving a man to death to get information. Every other group has people far more resourceful and more capable people, leave Scratch on her own and she's dead. Only thing that keeps people in line is her rage and the protection the ring brings her. Look at Saul and Vic. Both alone and yet they managed to survive without help. Saul did so completely on his own. Without anyone else, Scratch has nothing to keep her alive. She's the cliche "angry for the wrong reasons" character and has to depend on people and outside influences to maintain her power.


Ok Ray, not sure if you're just trying to be contentious to get some response, or if you even believe what you just wrote, but I'm just not seeing how the Scratch torture scene with Burt suddenly makes her a cliche character.

So it's cliche for the story to have a villain? Or are torture scenes now so overdone that they bore you?

It's not being contrarian to state an opinion. Because I don't agree with you doesn't make me wrong, or make you right. I can have a differing opinion without being insulted. I don't appreciate the tone you're taking with me for having a differing viewpoint on the character development of Scratch. I had enough of that garbage treatment from Osiris, his condescending attitude, and I don't need it from you either. I think Scratch has had some great moments, but she's starting to slip into the role of "misguided anger" issues area. There's so much that could change here, but she falling into a very very predictable pattern and I don't like it.

So you don't think that she's not going to use Lizzies little boy against her when the opportunity presents itself? You don't see that coming? Her sob story rape was pointless, we all know damn well that she will use both Lizzie and that baby to get what she wants, her being raped and having an abortion won't stop her from using whatever she has at hand to get what she wants. Proven by the fact that she starved Burt, destroyed his gun in a little tempter tantrum, and then cut off his finger, and also by killing Hanna to distract the tower guys when she attacked it the second time. She will do anything, no matter how gruesome or horrible, to get what she wants and she's projecting her warped family values on the world like they mean anything to anyone but her. She's falling into a completely predictable pattern, and it's getting worse. Not a single person that has been in coversation about Burt and/or Angel sees/saw the point in continuing to torture them. Hell, Bricks even defended Burt there at the end, taking the knife away from her by force. Her response? "Yeah, well. This isn't over." *stomping off in a huff*

She's run out of options, she's mentally weak and certifiably insane, and she has to depend on everyone around her to respect the ring she wears and not her skills or cunning. She has one dimension, anger. Anger that has gotten her nothing, and so she's using more of it in the desperate attempt to fix what she's fucked up. Misplaced anger is cliche, and Scratch is nothing but misplaced anger. She's projecting her rape and the following consequences on Pegs and is doing what all psychotic killers do and trying to make up for it by killing one person thinking it'll bring her peace or some kind of conflict resolution. Since the beginning of the series she's been nothing but piss and vinegar, and nothing has changed.


Scratch is a female italian mobster girl who cut of the balls of some guy and is fanatically trying to find and kill her brother's murderer... Maybe she's a patchwork of cliches (i don't agree, but i can see it), but not a cliche herself...
CJ is egocentric, but so are a lot of people, and a lot of survivors. In short term, altruists die first. I don't believe she can be called weak, neither in reference to real life, nor in the story. She's well established to be the woman behind the better, more successful tower (I mean the tower as a tower,not as people living in it).
And i think we can all say that everyone in the story is alive ONLY because this or that happened, so its not something we can lay specifically on CJ's door.

Pegs only "murdered" Latch in her eyes, I think 99% of people that aren't murderous psychopaths would be able to tell the difference between murder and self defense. Pegs most definitely did not murder Latch, something that a person with the mental instablility and misplaced rage like Scratch wouldn't be able to tell the truth from perception.

How can CJ not be weak? She had Sean as her enforcer and general task completer, and now Saul and Vic fill that role. She doesn't go out on her own now that she has someone to do it for her. She threatened them with expulsion if they didn't get her info on what was going on in Inglewood, both almost died in the process, and now that they ask for the same help. Notice I said ask, she tells them they are nothing more than warm bodies that take up space in her building. She is only alive because of Ink. For some reason he called his dogs off her when the tower was being gutted, she had her back to the wall and there were way more zombies in there than she had bullets for. She may be a good planner, but plans don't mean squat when the person making them is too weak, paranoid, or vengeful to carry them out. Saul and Vic make shit happen there, and even without CJ and her ego, they'd still survive. The reason CJ has for so long is that she had people around her willing to take her abrasive and abusive personality in stride. Most likely for themselves, each other, and not her. If Saul and Vic up and said "screw you we're going to the colony anyway" she's be her bullheaded self and betray their trust again. I'd think twice about being around someone that's so quick to cast people out because they don't want to do what I want to do. Her little tantrum under the guise of thinking carefully about a plan shows her for what she is, a weak coward. Saul and Vic have more than earned her respect, and the first thing she did when asked for help was to lash out at them and insult them. I agree that they should think through the steps more carefully and weigh the risks, that's just being smart, but the way she immediately threw them under the bus after acquiescing to her threats for the last 6 months or so, she's proven that she's not mentally stong, as well as not physically strong. I like CJ because she's got a good thing going, but I really don't like that she's so quick to act like her shit doesn't stink. Her ass was grass in the tower attack and the sole reason she survived was some seriously confusing mercy shown by Ink.

[wh33t]

Anyone else get the idea that CJ really has her stuff together? She had a SWAT van hidden somewhere full of weapons. Smart woman. Seems like her #1 priority was to get guns, a LOT of guns, and ammo stocked up. I'm glad CJ is on Saul and Victors side.

Yea, it's looking like my CJ is SWAT theory got a bump in the right direction. I have a whole thread dedicated to it. The fact that CJ just so happens to have a SWAT van (remember folks, one of CJ's minions was SWAT!) and a pile of SWAT like munitions. Sure it could just be the fact that one of her minions was SWAT and that's how she came to possess the SWAT van, but then you are still left with the question of just exactly where did CJ get her skills? She's well trained in close quarters combat, firearms, strategic planning and quartermastering (for lack of a better word).


It was on par with the Lizzie almost gets raped scene (insert a glare at KC and shake my finger at him) I was mad at you for a week over that then I forgave you I don't remember why though. :)

I still don't get how you guys have concluded that Lizzie wasn't raped. Did I miss a thread on that discussion? Or is that just hopeful thinking by the community?

CJ, this is why I love you. That's totally how I feel about the world today. Also I have a small reference to this in my signature as well. @ 4:32 "Normal, what's normal? Working most of your life doing trivial shit just to get by? Who's to say what I have here isn't better?"

Scott Marvin! Jenna McCombie! KC! You're all amazing. I cherish this Radio Drama.

[Cabbage Patch]

Maybe he is now... But have you ever tried to write anything with your left? (Assuming you're right handed like the rest of the normal people)

DISCLAIMER: No offense was made to the south paws (Is that how it's really spelled? Weird)

BUT. he was right handed. Scratch saw his affinity for the gun and how he used it in Ch 6.

Burt was a competitive pistol shooter and it sounded like he was pretty good at it. NRA pistol tournament rules require that competitors be able to fire their weapons with their "weak hand", usually requiring that they use their weak hand for between 10% and 25% of their shots in any competition. So we know that Burt "can" shoot left-handed, the question is how well he can do it.

[PuddleWhite]

It takes too much space, go read it on site
As to what you said about my comment...
I guess everybody's weak in some way or another, Victor's loyalty to Saul, Saul's pursuit of Lizzie, Lizzie's willingness to jeopardize her own safety for the good of the tower... But what i will contest is that CJ's weaknesses make her a bad survivor and a bad human being. Scratch is a bad human being, but CJ is just acting as her logic and her limited emotional capabilities allow her to act... And as far as survivor goes, I think she does fine. Was she at the mercy of someone at some point? Yeah, but so did everyone else in the series so far. In short, she gets by as good as any, and better than most. As far as the whole cold bitch thing, i think ''not in touch with her emotions'' is a better description of her crime, and its a small crime indeed, imo.

[yarri]

I still don't get how you guys have concluded that Lizzie wasn't raped. Did I miss a thread on that discussion? Or is that just hopeful thinking by the community?




Scratch stopped it

[PuddleWhite]

Burt was a competitive pistol shooter and it sounded like he was pretty good at it. NRA pistol tournament rules require that competitors be able to fire their weapons with their "weak hand", usually requiring that they use their weak hand for between 10% and 25% of their shots in any competition. So we know that Burt "can" shoot left-handed, the question is how well he can do it.
Owwww daaaamn... Do we have an inconsistency on our hands?!?! Find out next time, on We're Alive!

[PuddleWhite]

Yea, it's looking like my CJ is SWAT theory got a bump in the right direction. I have a whole thread dedicated to it. The fact that CJ just so happens to have a SWAT van (remember folks, one of CJ's minions was SWAT!) and a pile of SWAT like munitions.

I don't think it matters much if CJ was SWAT or not, whats important is she's an extremely capable organizer who may or may not like Saul and has trouble getting trough to her emotions.
As against that theory, I'd ask what would you consider a "SWAT like munitions pile''? As far as i know, she just has munitions in the general sense, not in any caliber specific to SWAT...

[Ray]

As far as the whole cold bitch thing, i think ''not in touch with her emotions'' is a better description of her crime, and its a small crime indeed, imo.

She's threatened them both with expulsion for not doing what she wants them to, even if they die in the process. Now that they ask for her help, she basically says they are useless to her. She's not a cold bitch, she's a contemptuous coward. Survival or not, someone did that to me, they'd be on their own immediately. Her mental aptitude and general spiteful nature shows that she is mentally weak. Threatening people and belittling their efforts is the first sign of being mentally weak. All of her supplies were gathered by someone else, she's a planner and not a doer. If it weren't for Sean, and now Saul and Vic she'd be nowhere. Sean carried the organized mentality with him to the Colony, he was the only thing keeping the powerkeg from exploding there. CJ had absolutely nothing to do with that. What happened after he died? The place went to shit. She may be able to plan things, but her ass is grass when it comes to actually doing anything. We have yet to see her do anything other than beat up a pretty weak Saul while he was trying to get some peaches. Everything else that been accomplished? Done by Saul and Vic. The second Saul and Vic wanted to leave, and asked for her help to get there, she became spiteful and hateful towards them. The only reason she is alive now it because Ink told the other zombies to leave her alone, and not because she's some badass. Both Saul and Vic have survived on their own, or with very little outside help. Neither one need her and I think she knows that.

[yarri]

She's threatened them both with expulsion for not doing what she wants them to, even if they die in the process. Now that they ask for her help, she basically says they are useless to her. She's not a cold bitch, she's a contemptuous coward. Survival or not, someone did that to me, they'd be on their own immediately. Her mental aptitude and general spiteful nature shows that she is mentally weak. Threatening people and belittling their efforts is the first sign of being mentally weak. All of her supplies were gathered by someone else, she's a planner and not a doer. If it weren't for Sean, and now Saul and Vic she'd be nowhere. Sean carried the organized mentality with him to the Colony, he was the only thing keeping the powerkeg from exploding there. CJ had absolutely nothing to do with that. What happened after he died? The place went to shit. She may be able to plan things, but her ass is grass when it comes to actually doing anything. We have yet to see her do anything other than beat up a pretty weak Saul while he was trying to get some peaches. Everything else that been accomplished? Done by Saul and Vic. The second Saul and Vic wanted to leave, and asked for her help to get there, she became spiteful and hateful towards them. The only reason she is alive now it because Ink told the other zombies to leave her alone, and not because she's some badass. Both Saul and Vic have survived on their own, or with very little outside help. Neither one need her and I think she knows that.


I'm curious and this question is meant seriously not as a nag or to be rude. What part of the show do you like?

[Adventureless_Hero]

So for once in a long time I said fuck it and didn't read anything that was posted prior to my posting. Firefox is being a bastard these days when it comes to this site. Anygay...

I'm really hoping that Saul and Victor will arrive at the colony and provide me with some damn evidence as to the timeline of all this shite. LOL, I can't figure out how the pieces fit together. From Saul and Victor's perspective, Burt could already be dead, OR he could be running the place, sitting on a throne with his four fingered hand resting on a polished skull that was once Scratches face.

What I found interesting was that we learned CJ isn't just a cold hearted bitch, she's a vengeful cold hearted bitch. Rescuing Lizzy, and getting replacement parts for the SAT phone weren't reason enough for her to want to infiltrate the colony. It wasn't until she was told (lied to) about the Mallers having a hand in killing Sean.

I think we are on a course to see Burt die. I hope I'm wrong, but he's falling to pieces and been broken. Perhaps it will culminate in a fight to the death with Scratch and Burt, but I don't see him making it out alive. Infinite sadness.

Also, I hope Bricks watches his back. Scratch may have it out for him now. Hopefully Bricks realization that he is playing for the wrong team will coincide with Saul, Victor, and CJ's arrival.

[PuddleWhite]

When i was walking down the stairs today
I saw a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today.
I wish, I wish he'd go away.
(not the actual Ray quote)
We seem to have a different opinion to whats good acceptable behavior and whats a planners place in our society. Anyway, your interpretation of CJ isn't that far away from mine, so i at least wont be disputing this point any longer. Honestly, im giddy, and way more interested to see what KC says about Cabbage Patch's post.

[PuddleWhite]

Also, I hope Bricks watches his back. Scratch may have it out for him now. Hopefully Bricks realization that he is playing for the wrong team will coincide with Saul, Victor, and CJ's arrival.
Naaaaah, i see this only as a set up for Bricks either joining the good guys or dieing while defending Lizzie.

[Litmaster]

Burt was a competitive pistol shooter and it sounded like he was pretty good at it. NRA pistol tournament rules require that competitors be able to fire their weapons with their "weak hand", usually requiring that they use their weak hand for between 10% and 25% of their shots in any competition. So we know that Burt "can" shoot left-handed, the question is how well he can do it.

YEAH! Left-handed, baby! Or shoot with your middle finger! Hell, shoot with your dick, Burt! Maybe Saul can just duct-tape down the trigger on the SAW and Burt doesn't even have to pull a trigger!!

And Kc... if you take Burt's fingers away I swear I am DONE with this audio drama! Seriously, I AM DONE...



Sayonarra!


No, I'm serious... the fingers go and
I WILL NEVER LISTEN TO WE'RE ALIVE AGAIN.



EVER.


Not ever... really. Well, almost never.


I won't ever re-listen to any of the episodes... ha! Well, just a few times for the good ones, but no more than five times!


And I won't listen to any of the new episodes.... uh... for a FULL FIVE MINUTES after they are released! That's five minutes of torment you just bought yourself, buddy.... five full minutes!


Ok, three minutes. Two, if I count fast.



Ah, who am I kiddin? I'll be listening right away, but if Burt's fingers go, I'll be really, really pissed!

And I'll complain! A lot! And call you bad names! Really bad ones!

Then I'll probably whine and bitch and moan and kick the neighbor's cat, and wonder why I get so caught up in a stupid radio show, and how it's only fiction and it's not real and doesn't really matter anyway, and how Kc is a foo-foo butt for cutting the fingers off my favorite character, and....


... aw, forget it.


Just don't take the fingers. Pleeeease? :o

[Verse]

I had trouble with this episode. I had to cut it off and come back to it later. That just says how well this show is done. A gun being hit with a hammer on audio should not make you sick in the gut. I give my hat off to KC. The show has been so well made that I was upset when a gun was broken. To the point I needed to take a break and come back.... to get sick again for what Burt is going through. Great work. Really good work.

[Privateer]

I wanted to post before I read any others, to properly capture my reaction:

Jesus Christ, Kc, this got /dark/. I mean, we get /told/ about it, thats one thing but holy God! I was squirming at the end.

I thiiiink Scratch has crossed the line to "Needs to die. Morally. Right now." When she Gve Shirley the ball-pin makeover.

[PuddleWhite]

What he said
Its funny because Litmaster's hilarious. And I'm mildly drunk :P

[yarri]

YEAH! Left-handed, baby! Or shoot with your middle finger! Hell, shoot with your dick, Burt! Maybe Saul can just duct-tape down the trigger on the SAW and Burt doesn't even have to pull a trigger!!

And Kc... if you take Burt's fingers away I swear I am DONE with this audio drama! Seriously, I AM DONE...



Sayonarra!


No, I'm serious... the fingers go and I WILL NEVER LISTEN TO WE'RE ALIVE AGAIN.



EVER.


Not ever... really. Well, almost never.


I won't ever re-listen to any of the episodes... ha! Well, just a few times for the good ones, but no more than five times!


And I won't listen to any of the new episodes.... uh... for a FULL FIVE MINUTES after they are released! That's five minutes of torment you just bought yourself, buddy.... five full minutes!


Ok, three minutes. Two, if I count fast.



Ah, who am I kiddin? I'll be listening right away, but if Burt's fingers go, I'll be really, really pissed!

And I'll complain! A lot! And call you bad names! Really bad ones!

Then I'll probably whine and bitch and moan and kick the neighbor's cat, and wonder why I get so caught up in a stupid radio show, and how it's only fiction and it's not real and doesn't really matter anyway, and how Kc is a foo-foo butt for cutting the fingers off my favorite character, and....


... aw, forget it.


Just don't take the fingers. Pleeeease? :o


Why do you post like this when I've already repped you for sheer entertainment? Now I've got to go and rep like a million people to rep this post. I hate you.. no I don't not really I can't hate you. You're to funny but I'll pretend I do so I'll feel better about things.

[ferroaj]

Depending on where Scratch cut the finger off, Burt might be able to figure out how to rig up a makeshift finger. As long as he has a nub, he should be able to hollow out a wooden extension and hold it onto his hand with a glove.

This finger was such an amazing symbol for Burt on so many levels. Everything Burt is, was, and will-be was dependent on three small segments of bone and knuckle. Without his gun, he's a defenseless, old man with nothing more than a minor understanding of generators and radios... Plus, Burt judges his self-worth on his ability to shoot -- just look back to when he got the shakes for a week. Taking away his trigger finger isn't just making it harder for him to survive, it's essentially taking away his "manhood" (even more, it's the one piece of his body that fits into the symbol of his wife, Shirley). This episode was just brilliant writing, and Lizzy would have a field day analyzing this stuff.

and for everyone that's said this episode didn't go anywhere, you're all crazy! This is a turning point in the third season. Nik, it's what you've been talking about -- all the loose ends are tied up and now plans are set in motion to move the story along, and with this set up I'd say we're in for a lot of action episodes SOON.

[Penguine]

True what ya say about Burt's finger, but it really is not all that hard to shoot with your middle finger. I believe Scratch took the finger all the way to the hand knuckle, so a small grip change and Burts rocking with his middle finger. Also what was said about him being able to shoot left handed is more then likely true. Maybe not as good, but Im betting good enough to shoot someone in the chest as opposed to the face. Not sure how he will recover from losing Shirley for the second time (caner #1, gun smashing #2) though.

[Adventureless_Hero]

If Tommy Iommi can play guitar like Satan commanded, then Burt can shoot and send Scatch to the devil!

EDIT

Also, what do you think the chances are that Lizzy gets rescued before they get the SAT phone, then they all go to Glen's comm room and run into Tardust, at which point Lizzy says, "There's the fuck that tried to rape me." Cue Saul beating Tardust to death with his fists.

[PuddleWhite]

True, i live in a way that lets me train my shooting only 1 month of the year, but still, i know that the trigger finger is waaaay important to your accuracy.
Will Burt be able to shoot? Yeah. Will he be able to shoot the shotgun out of a man's hand without hurting him? Certainly not. And as i said, thats what Burt was, a shooter, along with being the husband of Shirley, who was also destroyed... Don't try and make it less of a thing than it was, the cut finger was something life altering for Burt.

[7oddisdead]

So

A: glad to see ray back, while I may not agree with his opinions, its always fun to have somebody around with a different viewpoint....especially when they can defend that point pretty well. Good on ya ray...no hate here.

B:this episode to me felt like the setup episode to crown all setup...episodes. We basically listened to the seeds of all the things we have been predicting laid right in front of our eyes/ears

Why bricks switches teams
Why cj makes the colony mission happen
Why Burt is still alive.

Good stuff, and damn....shits gonna hit the fan here reeeal soon

[Cabbage Patch]

RIP Shirley

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2019&d=1341870553

[PuddleWhite]

A pic of Shirley one a tombstone
Its funny because its true.

[kairon00]

RIP Shirley

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2019&d=1341870553

Agreed, Damn you KC now Burt no longer has his signature weapon to kill scratch with. I will be sorely disappointed if Burt does not get any retribution for this travesty.

[Ray]

I'm curious and this question is meant seriously not as a nag or to be rude. What part of the show do you like?

Everything but Scratch, I swear! :) I'm only voicing my opinion on CJ and Scratch because I feel they are being done a slight injustice. I absolutely LOVE We're Alive and I don't KC is doing anything wrong with either character, or the entire show for that matter. I'm only commenting on what I feel those two characters are doing versus how I feel they should be doing. I don't think I'm right by any means, I love to hear contrary opinion to what I have to say. I'm no writer, but I hate to see Scratch become the token crazy angry villain, and CJ turning into some ego driven idiot that can't see the forest for the trees. I haven't really liked Scratch from the beginning to be honest, but not because I didn't think she had a place in the story. I just don't like psychotic murderers. I just don't want to see her fall into the normal character arc and be some blind rage fool where there could be so much more to her than that. Same with CJ. She's such a weak character simply because she treats everyone like dogshit on the bottom of her shoe once they stop kissing her feet and doing what they are told. I wouldn't stick around with that chick for another second, even after she agreed to go with them.

Who knows though, KC is pretty good at throwing curve balls so he may turn them around next episode. I've never and probably will never feel anything but disdain for Scratch though. Don't really care about people that murder others to get what they want.

[Vlarken]

That was too much... The first time in the show that I've almost truly cried. When Samantha is killed, that came close, but Burt has been one of my favorite characters (if not my favorite) from the moment Saul and Angel found him. To have to imagine him there, still unbroken and strong, and then having Scratch basically dismember and murder his wife in front of him, when he already had to lose her once; and then cutting off his trigger finger, which probably gives him his most feelings of strength and identity... It's too much. I want to see Saul, Victor and CJ break him out, and then have him kill Scratch slowly and painfully.

The only bright light at the end of tunnel: he could possibly train his left hand to wield a gun to some degree of being as effective as his right. Sort of like in the Dark Tower, when Roland has his fingers bitten off by the lobstrosities, and has to use his left hand for the rest of the series. Of course, that's a fantasy series, and Roland already knew how to shoot just as well with his left hand, but I'll keep up hope.

[werewolf]

This episode kept me at the edge of my seat. When Scratch took her knife out. Hell,I thought she was going to cut off Burt's hand at first. However it just ended up being his trigger finger. (that sucks)
I think Scratch has finally hit a point where the other prisoners are going to stop taken orders from her. (like Bricks, I still believe that he will in the end help Lizzie and Burt escape.)
fantastic episode.

[PuddleWhite]

This episode kept me at the edge of my seat. When Scratch took her knife out. Hell,I thought she was going to cut off Burt's hand at first
I was sure its was going to be his balls... What with her history and all...

[nikvoodoo]

Hear ye hear ye let me be (apparently) the first to say it: someone is going to disarm Scratch and then promptly get fucked up by the spare.

[GeOsiris]

I'm pretty upset that Scratch has become a cliche character, even after she had some hope of being interesting. I was hoping better for her, but she's the "token black guy" (if you will) of We're Alive now and I sincerely wished it wasn't that way. Oh well, I can skip over parts where she shows up because it's easily seen exactly what she's going to do and exactly what she'll say now. I thought that CJ has become another weak character as well. She's got an overblown ego and is rife with hypocrisy. She demands that Saul and Vic risk their life for information, and then acts like it's a slap in the face when they do the same. The ONLY reason CJ is still alive is because of other people, and because Ink for some reason spared her life. Without Sean, and Ink letting her live she'd be long dead by now and if I were Saul and Vic I'd leave her for dead. The very second she referred to them as "tenants" I would have taken whatever supplies I needed and left. If she raised a finger to stop me, she'd get a bullet for her troubles. I LOVE We're Alive, but two of possibly the most interesting characters have become cliche and predictable. Shame. Good episode though, Burt is going to have fun tearing Scratch limb from limb.

I concur. Will add more later. Hate typing on the tablet.

[yarri]

Everything but Scratch, I swear! :) I'm only voicing my opinion on CJ and Scratch because I feel they are being done a slight injustice. I absolutely LOVE We're Alive and I don't KC is doing anything wrong with either character, or the entire show for that matter. I'm only commenting on what I feel those two characters are doing versus how I feel they should be doing. I don't think I'm right by any means, I love to hear contrary opinion to what I have to say. I'm no writer, but I hate to see Scratch become the token crazy angry villain, and CJ turning into some ego driven idiot that can't see the forest for the trees. I haven't really liked Scratch from the beginning to be honest, but not because I didn't think she had a place in the story. I just don't like psychotic murderers. I just don't want to see her fall into the normal character arc and be some blind rage fool where there could be so much more to her than that. Same with CJ. She's such a weak character simply because she treats everyone like dogshit on the bottom of her shoe once they stop kissing her feet and doing what they are told. I wouldn't stick around with that chick for another second, even after she agreed to go with them.

Who knows though, KC is pretty good at throwing curve balls so he may turn them around next episode. I've never and probably will never feel anything but disdain for Scratch though. Don't really care about people that murder others to get what they want.

Thanks for answering my question.

[GeOsiris]

Burt was a competitive pistol shooter and it sounded like he was pretty good at it. NRA pistol tournament rules require that competitors be able to fire their weapons with their "weak hand", usually requiring that they use their weak hand for between 10% and 25% of their shots in any competition. So we know that Burt "can" shoot left-handed, the question is how well he can do it.

Ive never been required to shoot weak hand in any pistol or rifle match. I train to shoot in many
scenarios, but have never been required to shoot weak in any competition, NRA, IDPA, or otherwise.

[Ra1th]

Wow, so what do you think are the chances of Burt surviving? He doesn't have a trigger finger anymore. He's old. Can't really run and jump like the others. Vision's going. He was good at shooting, but can't really do that anymore. My bet is that he's gonna die trying to help Saul, Victor and company escape.

Kinda hoping he doesn't survive, cause Angel didn't get to make it, so why should he, especially now that he can't shoot. Call me bitter.

[7oddisdead]

Wow, so what do you think are the chances of Burt surviving? He doesn't have a trigger finger anymore. He's old. Can't really run and jump like the others. Vision's going. He was good at shooting, but can't really do that anymore. My bet is that he's gonna die trying to help Saul, Victor and company escape.

Kinda hoping he doesn't survive, cause Angel didn't get to make it, so why should he, especially now that he can't shoot. Call me bitter.

Bitter.

I kid,I kid...BUT, if anybody had a good reason to take scratch down before...burts reasons just trumped anyone else's. In my mind this was the sole reason to bring Burt back. Otherwise, why not kill him off when he fell?..what has been gained by keeping him alive all
this time?...its all about the setup, just like scratch has her motivation for going after pegs..whatever it takes, Burt now has the same motivation. In my opinion at least

[nikvoodoo]

Ra1th is bitter....and I not kid. :p

I've said it before, and now I'm more justified in my thought that Burt's time is limited. Riley is going to be the cause of or trigger to Scratch's death. Burt will die in the escape attempt, or worse he'll be left behind, think Lizzy left him for dead, and give up fort Irwin. Then get killed.

[Ra1th]

Bitter.

I kid,I kid...BUT, if anybody had a good reason to take scratch down before...burts reasons just trumped anyone else's. In my mind this was the sole reason to bring Burt back. Otherwise, why not kill him off when he fell?..what has been gained by keeping him alive all
this time?

Which is exactly why I'm so bitter about Angel dying. He had so much more to contribute.

[7oddisdead]

Ra1th is bitter....and I not kid. :p

I've said it before, and now I'm more justified in my thought that Burt's time is limited. Riley is going to be the cause of or trigger to Scratch's death. Burt will die in the escape attempt, or worse he'll be left behind, think Lizzy left him for dead, and give up fort Irwin. Then get killed.

The last time you and I violently disagreed on something you ended up eating crow..so I'm going to plant my flag in Burt making it out in contrast to your death and squealing theory...lets see if you can get a redemption sandwich with a side of "eff-you, todd-o!"

all in fun of course.:)

[Ray]

Which is exactly why I'm so bitter about Angel dying. He had so much more to contribute.

He was killed off because Shane couldn't really make it to the studio to record though, right? I thought KC had said something to the effect that Shane was busy with other projects and so they offed Angel because of it.

[Kc]

He was killed off because Shane couldn't really make it to the studio to record though, right? I thought KC had said something to the effect that Shane was busy with other projects and so they offed Angel because of it.
For the record- I never said that.

[ferroaj]

Which is exactly why I'm so bitter about Angel dying. He had so much more to contribute.

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but didn't scratch say something to the effect of "if you kill someone in the family, somebody from the family has to kill you, then the debt is paid?"

By that logic, shouldn't someone have to kill Scratch for killing Angel?

[Cabbage Patch]

Ive never been required to shoot weak hand in any pistol or rifle match. I train to shoot in many
scenarios, but have never been required to shoot weak in any competition, NRA, IDPA, or otherwise.

My personal experience is old, but I scanned the latest NRA pistol competition rule book and things still seem to reflect the old emphasis on weak hand shooting: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf

[AdrianHD]

The last time you and I violently disagreed on something you ended up eating crow..so I'm going to plant my flag in Burt making it out in contrast to your death and squealing theory...lets see if you can get a redemption sandwich with a side of "eff-you, todd-o!"

all in fun of course.:)
I've been thinking about the episode all today, and I'm going to stay on Nik's side. Burt is going to be the wedge that makes this all terrible. He just lost his pride and joy, his only way of combat has been severely hindered. He's just too damn old and crippled now. I think he's the badass that caught the short end of the stick. And besides, story-wise, this makes perfect sense. Destroy one of the fan favorite characters, one that almost felt invincible before, and throw him under the bus to get the fumes running again.

Then again, I hope I'm wrong. I'm still a Scratch fan til the day I die, but I can't help but hope good ole Burt makes it out of there in one piece. Ba dum tish.

[Free_Falling86]

I needed to step out of my shadows of de-lurking. Silent I can be no more (until I go back into my shadows :) )

This episode was totally intense. Like, I had to stop work several times to pick up my jaw. By the end, I think I sort of went into shock. Burt is a major favorite, but I won't deny that Scratch is tied right up there. I didn't and still don't know how to feel. I like Scratch too much to dislike her but I can't condone what she did. I felt the same way as when Scar killed Mufasa. Maybe I just have a thing for villains with a scar running down their face. Scratch is taking the 4th principle of the Omerta code (that states if you're in the Family, any attacks on family members must be avenged) to the ultimate extreme. Since it's one of the Rules, I wonder what would happen if she didn't try to avenge Latch. Would that be immediate cause for punishment or even death? Anyways, it really doesn't mitigate her actions towards Burt, though I still see her side of it (even if I don't condone. Not by a long shot...was that pun too soon?).

I can see Burt or even Riley being Scratch's death, but I really don't want to lose Scratch yet.... The emotions brought forth in this episode was so spot on and so clenching to the heart. I was right there with Burt with the destruction of his Shirley. I even felt Scratch in her performance too. In the interrogation/torture scene, it seemed like she was bordering on manic. Her only lead (except perhaps maybe Lizzie; hope Saul and Victor saves her before KC goes there) is non-responsive. Plus the time that's she's been given by Durai is quickly shrinking, backing her into a corner. So she does what every wild cornered animal does....she lashes out in the worst, cruel, and harmful way possible. Either that or she's Jack Bauer's long lost evil twin. Poor Burt. I really want to see him go and live on.

Lastly, I want to say how much I appreciate this show. Every single thing about this show rocks my socks. I would count the ways I adore the cast and crew (especially KC, Scott Marvin, and Jenna), but I think the Zombie Apocalypse would be over before I finished. Hehe :)

[wh33t]

Scratch stopped it

Nope, I don't think she did. If you give a re-listen Tardust still punches Lizzie out and I believe that's when the supposed rape goes down.

[wh33t]

I don't think it matters much if CJ was SWAT or not, whats important is she's an extremely capable organizer who may or may not like Saul and has trouble getting trough to her emotions.
As against that theory, I'd ask what would you consider a "SWAT like munitions pile''? As far as i know, she just has munitions in the general sense, not in any caliber specific to SWAT...

I am referring to racks of guns in the back of a SWAT van. I was under the impression they were all previously there but she was storing them somewhere else.

[7oddisdead]

Anybody else wonder if bricks is informed enough about what's going on to know what durai's endgame goals are? He seems to have a plan beyond the colony, beyond scratches revenge mission...im wondering if the thing that "changed everything" could be his information?

[wh33t]

Anybody else wonder if bricks is informed enough about what's going on to know what durai's endgame goals are? He seems to have a plan beyond the colony, beyond scratches revenge mission...im wondering if the thing that "changed everything" could be his information?

I think the "thing" that changed everything was the fact that the Little Ones can reproduce themselves versus just the regular mindless biter. Honestly, I know I'm on the fringe here but I think Bricks might die and Burt & Lizzie escape.

[7oddisdead]

I think the "thing" that changed everything was the fact that the Little Ones can reproduce themselves versus just the regular mindless biter. Honestly, I know I'm on the fringe here but I think Bricks might die and Burt & Lizzie escape.

All b.s. And messing with Nik aside, that's much more the direction I see things going...the question I have to wonder about is, IF bricks turned on the mallers..would cj even let him in the building?....doubtful.

[nikvoodoo]

Nope, I don't think she did. If you give a re-listen Tardust still punches Lizzie out and I believe that's when the supposed rape goes down.

First of all, I despise you for making me relisten to this episode. (By this I mean Lizzy's near rape episode)

And second: Tar did not succeed. He punched her out in the back of the car when Bricks was present. Bricks who has the standing order to not allow Tardust to touch Lizzy. There's no way he did that because even if Bricks is a little slow, we've seen how well he follows orders.

[wh33t]

All b.s. And messing with Nik aside, that's much more the direction I see things going...the question I have to wonder about is, IF bricks turned on the mallers..would cj even let him in the building?....doubtful.

I guess it's all pretty situational. CJ tried to kill (and would have succeeded if not for Victor, I'll remind all of you CJ doubters) Saul. She was pretty adamant about not getting to close them either, but now look at her. I don't think CJ is a bitch, I just think she's got a mission. Her being alive isn't just about living, it's about solving or accomplishing something. What that is I'm not really sure but god damn it I really want to get into her safe and read through her notes.

[wh33t]

First of all, I despise you for making me relisten to this episode.

And second: Tar did not succeed. He punched her out in the back of the car when Bricks was present. Bricks who has the standing order to not allow Tardust to touch Lizzy. There's no way he did that because even if Bricks is a little slow, we've seen how well he follows orders.

Which episode/chapter is that? I would like to relisten ;)

[wh33t]

Oh, I also wanted to ask KC a question.

Any chance we could see a video clip of Scott Marvin in the studio pulling off his amazing performance?

[nikvoodoo]

Which episode/chapter is that? I would like to relisten ;)

20-3. Since it's split up you have to listen to the whole thing up to ~14:00 mark. Tar has Lizzy in the back of the furniture store which is the only time he is alone with her before Scratch lays Bricks on her protection detail. After that, she's protected by big Grizzly Brick-Adams. Tar knocks her out because she threw the chair through the window.

[Kc]

Oh, I also wanted to ask KC a question.

Any chance we could see a video clip of Scott Marvin in the studio pulling off his amazing performance?

I'm not sure we have that on video, but I can look.

[wh33t]

I'm not sure we have that on video, but I can look.

I would love that, it would really help me see that he's actually OK and that it was just acting and that this is all just a Radio Drama. ;)

[werewolf]

I was sure its was going to be his balls... What with her history and all...
I don't think scratch would have done that to Burt. I think her thing is what ever you might love. if it offends or hurts her is what she wants to destroys. The guy that raped her she cuts off the guy's ball. Burt's gun Burt loves cause it reminds him of his late wife and since she destroyed the gun she also wanted hurt him even more by cutting off his finger. it would be the final separation of Burt and his wife.

this is one of those episodes that was very strong on the emotional level. Keep it KC and the crew. I just cant understand why you guys didn't win an award.

[Ray]

For the record- I never said that.

Ah, okay. I heard wrong then. Apologies.

[Ray]

...and would have succeeded if not for Victor, I'll remind all of you CJ doubters) Saul...

Beating up a severely weakened dude isn't something to be proud of. Saul had just gotten off of very long bed rest, and was taking seriously powerful drugs. That shouldn't be a tick in the "badass" box for CJ, that should be telling for how badass she isn't.

[wh33t]

Beating up a severely weakened dude isn't something to be proud of. Saul had just gotten off of very long bed rest, and was taking seriously powerful drugs. That shouldn't be a tick in the "badass" box for CJ, that should be telling for how badass she isn't.

You really think Saul was that weakened? He might have been slightly weekend but not that much, he certainly doesn't sound like he's struggling like we've heard from him before. Lets also accept the fact that CJ = girl, Saul = dude and CJ was still going to choke him out.

[Eviebae]

I cannot wait for Osiris to spin this to Scratchs favor

You can know why someone does something and not allow them to continue.

EDIT

I listened to most of the Bert scene with face squinched up in a look of pain. It was really hard to listen to and I've decided that if there's a video I aint watchin'

[Milky13]

Poor Burt... :( :(

[Pikepaw]

Forget when Tardust tried to rape Lizzie. Forget when Scratch went to Angel's bedside. Forget when Riley and Kalani encounted the One With The Markings in the mental hospital while standing on a floor littered with fingernails. This is by far the most uncomfortable I have ever been while listening to We're Alive. When Scratch was destroying Shirely I got so uncomfortable that I was starting to feel sick to my stomach. To say nothing of when she cut off his trigger finger. I...I don't have words. It is the LAST thing he has, tearing it away...just...errrr...FUCK SCRATCH.

So now I am pissed and want to left alone in a room with Scratch. Bare hands, that is all I will need, as long as she doesn't have any knives. But she will have knives...ugh. She has crossed the line with me and is making me so mad.

Note I still love Jenna McCombie, but I HATE Scratch right now. I will not share any of my toys with her

Early part with CJ/Saul/Victor gang was good too but just didn't get me so emotionally riled up as Burt being tortured. I do like the fully armed truck that CJ has been keeping in reserve with lots and lots of guns. Kind of like that scene in the Matrix. I like the pissed off, but still refined and cunning Chinwee, out to avenge Shaun.

[Witch_Doctor]

How is that cliche, and how am I assuming?... She's a murderous psychopath, now she's got a sob story to try and flesh out the one dimension she has and it fails completely. ...Having her backstory that she was raped and was repaid for cutting her Uncles dick off and then using that set of psychopath rules to justify killing all of Pegs friends to get her back for defending herself is cliche. The evil villian trying to get vengence for a percieved crime against her. The only thing she has is anger, and the rape backstory was a waste of air time. I can't believe anyone would sympathize with her wanting vengence for her brother, and using that as justification for her actions. Rape isn't something to make light of, and it's awful she went through that. Doesn't give her character any more depth or reason to act the way she does. Her wanting to kill Pegs because she killed Latch in self defense has nothing to do with her getting raped, it's just a desperate stab at trying to legitimize her psychotic behavior.

I agree that we should all be more civil in dealing with matters of disagreement. If someone makes an unpopular or confusing comment very little is gained by the overkill of ridicule or satire. A better response would be to first determine if everyone is discussing same points and from what perspective. If all else fails, just agree to disagree or wait and see how the story unfolds.

Perhaps we can better judge Scratch's character by examining how she fits into the story-telling, or narrative, structure. By now, most of us have concluded that the story is told from the perspectives of the protagonists from the Tower. Sometimes the story is told from journal entries and other times we witness the story from a third person perspective limited to the heroes' experiences. Our view of Scratch will be limited by the heroes' interactions with Scratch. Keep in mind that she makes rare appearances in the story, and when she is present, she is usually seen by the main characters as a menace from one extreme to another. There have been few instances that would allow us to see her with any depth as those more personal sides of her would not be seen while she is taunting or tormenting Michael, Angel, Saul, Burt and the others. There have been instances when we can hear glimpses of humanity (Not necessarily compassion) in her voice, such as calling out John's name after he is shot, asking Angel if it is OK to pick up her brother's body, comforting a dying Angel or asking Lizzy if she's been sick at the Car dealership. We all can see how her tragic past can leave her scarred, especially when the story of the rape is spelled out for us. But, this is an audio drama and actors must show us things with their voices if the dialogue is vague or not explicit. Listen to how she sounds when Saul is listening to her and Latch outside the clothing store in Chapter 6 part 2 starting around 16 minutes. She says that she is 'not a waste', she is 'useful.'

[Osiris]

God damnit... I can't read all this. Cliffs? Anyone?

[Witch_Doctor]

What I found interesting was that we learned CJ isn't just a cold hearted bitch, she's a vengeful cold hearted bitch. Rescuing Lizzy, and getting replacement parts for the SAT phone weren't reason enough for her to want to infiltrate the colony. It wasn't until she was told (lied to) about the Mallers having a hand in killing Sean.

About freaking time someone mentioned the 'Lie.' I had to read the 8 pages of posts before I could see if someone talks about Saul lying to CJ so I wouldn't repeat what others have already said.

[Osiris]

Remember that time that Ray went on a 400 page rant, and I never read it? That shit was awesome.

[7oddisdead]

God damnit... I can't read all this. Cliffs? Anyone?

a couple of fellas seem to think scratchy is getting to be a cliche evil character(i think,questioning how kc has written her)..we all party like its 1999. purple rain fool

i dunno...had a beer or two

[Osiris]

All righty, I read through most of the thread now. Seems to be a lot of "noes Kc you made the Scratch le evil again!!!11one!11ty" going on. I can dig it. Alex, I don't need to spin this in any favourable light. Scratch hate is par for the course here. You all know my feelings about it, there's no need to rehash the same words. That said....


Fanfuckingtastic chapter so far, Kc. Really, really fantastic. I enjoyed Jenna's performance immensely. Kudos to you, sir. As for Jenna, well... I already shared my thoughts about the performance, but I'll thank you once again. Thank you, thank you so very, very much, Jenna. You've been glue. Wonderful to listen to and very moving.

As for the Scratch haters... keeping glossing over all the good that she's done if it'll help you sleep better at night. It's cool, I don't mind.

[Osiris]

a couple of fellas seem to think scratchy is getting to be a cliche evil character(i think,questioning how kc has written her)..we all party like its 1999. purple rain fool

i dunno...had a beer or two

Goddamn, son. I've been drinking all night with my aunt from back East. She showed up the other day, haven't seen her in almost 10 years. Anyway, yeah, I caught a lot of the 'oh she's so blah blah blah cliched, blah blah blah' and tuned it out. Too much hate and angst over a fictional character. You'd swear that Scratch had pissed in their corn flakes or something.


p.s. Listening to Raspberry Beret.

[Osiris]

I'm also VERY glad Burt had his finger cut off and got to watch Shirley destroyed. It'll help him move forward and get past his wife's death.

[Osiris]

Nope, I don't think she did. If you give a re-listen Tardust still punches Lizzie out and I believe that's when the supposed rape goes down.

I think you need to go back and re-listen.

[7oddisdead]

I'm also VERY glad Burt had his finger cut off and got to watch Shirley destroyed. It'll help him move forward and get past his wife's death.


what sucks is, i kinda agree with this, maaaaaybe not the finger bit (its his finger man, come on now) but shirley destroyed i thought of as a good thing

[Osiris]

what sucks is, i kinda agree with this, maaaaaybe not the finger bit (its his finger man, come on now) but shirley destroyed i thought of as a good thing

Of course you agree. Why wouldn't you? I always speak the truth.

[7oddisdead]

Of course you agree. Why wouldn't you? I always speak the truth.

except that one time you told me the snozberries taste like snozberries...they most certainly did not.

[Osiris]

except that one time you told me the snozberries taste like snozberries...they most certainly did not.

They totally do though. Snozberries just happen to taste like cat shit dipped in lemon juice. Not my fault.

[Witch_Doctor]

Nope, I don't think she did. If you give a re-listen Tardust still punches Lizzie out and I believe that's when the supposed rape goes down.

I gave it a re-listen.

Tardust never got the chance. She kept making noise and vomiting then Scratch arrives. He even makes a comment about the whole thing might not be worth it because he could catch something from Lizzy.

[Witch_Doctor]

OK. Here I go.
Yay, I can hate Scratch again. I'm sending a Hate-seeking missile her way. Bravo, Jenna, Bravo!
Burt freaking CRIED!! With sobs, gobs and snot to boot. Too intense. I'd rather watch the ending of Old Yeller and My Dog Skip with Sarah McLaughlin singing in the background. Bravo, Scott Marvin, Bravo!
CJ jumped to a conclusion about Sean's death and Saul LIED to her!
CJ is straight crazy folks. She's lost it. She wants to STAY in her fortress. She hates everything Saul. Is she even planning on coming back alive?
Pete got some water bottles from CJ. I see him rebuilding his Empire.
Speaking of Empires, I have a feeling that if the Colony had a reactor core then Briggs would have picked up Scratch and toss her into it, Vader-style. He even talked to her like a child, "It's MY knife now. Take your ass to time out! 1...2...Scratch, don't make me stop this car!"
Glenn was interrupted AGAIN! I wish that was slot on a roulette wheel. I would ALWAYS bet on Glenn getting interrupted. Last episode he even got interrupted when he was allowed to speak! "Ah yes, the Satellite phone, I was going to say som...", "Wait! What kind of phone is this?"

Looks like someone might be on to something about Ink sparing Skittles because he was cuckoo. That would explain CJ being spared. Just saying...

[7oddisdead]

Looks like someone might be on to something about Ink sparing Skittles because he was cuckoo. That would explain CJ being spared. Just saying...

a-friggin-men, sir. just wondering where her son that is gonna champion the war against skynet is hiding... ;)

[yarri]

I'm torn with Scratch. I love her for her evil maybe that's it. I love to hate the bad things she does but the mother in me wants to hug her and kick the shit out of whom ever hurt her so badly. I realized tonight I REALLLLLLY want to know more about her and her history. What was she like as a child cause no one starts out bad. The things in their world and the choices they make make them bad. Did she laugh did she have dreams hell when she what did she want to do when she grew up. TO many unanswered questions Kc... to many....

[Witch_Doctor]

This is what I imagined when I heard about the S.W.A.T. truck ...2022 Thanks CabbagePatch for clearing up this. http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=SWAT%20Armored%20Van

I watched the 1970's T.V. show called S.W.A.T., as a kid,and was terrified of UPS trucks for years.

[VEE]

Hmmmm. It’s a gun. So what? Perhaps it’s because I’ve never had an emotional attachment to a firearm, but I don’t get it. The level of distress from seeing an inanimate object being broken was way too far up the scale to my mind. I get that it was named after his wife, I do, I get the whole connection, but it was still an inanimate object, it was a shame, sure, but come on. I hate to come across as a detractor as I love the series, but, probably for the first time I cringed a bit at the whole scene, until the finger was cut off, prior to that it was so far over the top it was in orbit. The finger cutting scene saved it and was very well done indeed, but, for me, was spoiled by what preceded it.

[awkwardalex]

I think Scratchs wiki now needs to just say: She's a mean bitch





Or my dads version: She needs a bullet in the head.

[Litmaster]

I think Scratchs wiki now needs to just say: She's a mean bitch

Or my dads version: She needs a bullet in the head.

Done! I already tagged her as 'bitch', but went ahead and added 'mean bitch', just in case anyone is confused as to her true nature. :)

[yarri]

Hmmmm. It’s a gun. So what? Perhaps it’s because I’ve never had an emotional attachment to a firearm, but I don’t get it. The level of distress from seeing an inanimate object being broken was way too far up the scale to my mind. I get that it was named after his wife, I do, I get the whole connection, but it was still an inanimate object, it was a shame, sure, but come on. I hate to come across as a detractor as I love the series, but, probably for the first time I cringed a bit at the whole scene, until the finger was cut off, prior to that it was so far over the top it was in orbit. The finger cutting scene saved it and was very well done indeed, but, for me, was spoiled by what preceded it.


What you fail to remember is that weapon wasn't named for his wife it was HER gun. That piece was her favorite weapon he carried it as he would carry the last thing on earth that was hers with him it was a piece of her like an extension of her soul/body. Burt and Shirley didn't have kids, he had nothing left in the world to hold on to that reminded him of what she was and who she was other then that weapon. The finger was nothing he can over come it any good marksmen can and will over come with time a handycap like the loss of a trigger finger. But the loss of the desert eagle will be hard. Part of me is glad it happened like Osi said maybe now he'll grieve her and let her go and find something to live for in what's left of the world now.

[daredevil]

What you fail to remember is that weapon wasn't named for his wife it was HER gun. That piece was her favorite weapon he carried it as he would carry the last thing on earth that was hers with him it was a piece of her like an extension of her soul/body. Burt and Shirley didn't have kids, he had nothing left in the world to hold on to that reminded him of what she was and who she was other then that weapon. The finger was nothing he can over come it any good marksmen can and will over come with time a handycap like the loss of a trigger finger. But the loss of the desert eagle will be hard. Part of me is glad it happened like Osi said maybe now he'll grieve her and let her go and find something to live for in what's left of the world now.

... like his finger?

[yarri]

... like his finger?


Huh?

[daredevil]

Part of me is glad it happened like Osi said maybe now he'll grieve her and let her go and find something to live for in what's left of the world now.

Like his finger?

Nevermind. It made sense when I wrote it.

[yarri]

Like his finger?

Nevermind. It made sense when I wrote it.

*laughs*

Ok as I'm still confused

[Stuv]

Fantastic episode! I wasn't ready for it to conclude it went by so fast! I can't see all the post for some reason so please forgive me if this has been brought up.
Perhaps now we can put this whole” Poor Scratch" thing to bed. There are others in this story that have risen above difficult pasts and become heroes. I think by her actions in this episode she has proven once and for all what she is. A sadistic psychopath. She wants one thing, a chance to kill Pegs and avenge her brother. She clearly has no regard for anyone she has to destroy to get there. I am not even sure she wouldn't kill Bricks or even Durai in order to accomplish this. When she said she had a spare knife during this episode I thought ht she was about to pull it out and stick it in Bricks. Her insanity may be what finally brings the Mallers to ruin.

[yarri]

Fantastic episode! I wasn't ready for it to conclude it went by so fast! I can't see all the post for some reason so please forgive me if this has been brought up.
Perhaps now we can put this whole” Poor Scratch" thing to bed. There are others in this story that have risen above difficult pasts and become heroes. I think by her actions in this episode she has proven once and for all what she is. A sadistic psychopath. She wants one thing, a chance to kill Pegs and avenge her brother. She clearly has no regard for anyone she has to destroy to get there. I am not even sure she wouldn't kill Bricks or even Durai in order to accomplish this. When she said she had a spare knife during this episode I thought ht she was about to pull it out and stick it in Bricks. Her insanity may be what finally brings the Mallers to ruin.

Nah I still feel bad for her. She's a damaged lost little girl. When she said she had a spare I kept wondering..... "Well if you have it why didn't you pull it?" I think Bricks standing up to her scared her. I mean he can pull the arms off biters in hand to hand.

[daredevil]

Nah I still feel bad for her. She's a damaged lost little girl. When she said she had a spare I kept wondering..... "Well if you have it why didn't you pull it?" I think Bricks standing up to her scared her. I mean he can pull the arms off biters in hand to hand.

... you're insane.

Nik keeps saying she'll die by her own hand... Screw that she needs to die by Saul... then Burt, then Angel, then Michael, then Lizzy, then Shirley... One death is not enough.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Man, there's a lot of good stuff being discussed here. For fear of posting a long as discussion regarding some of the cool shtuff here, I'm going to ignore it and hope it's all discussed in the next...

[yarri]

... you're insane.

Nik keeps saying she'll die by her own hand... Screw that she needs to die by Saul... then Burt, then Angel, then Michael, then Lizzy, then Shirley... One death is not enough.


How am I insane because I feel bad for her, feeling bad doesn't mean I don't think she has earned the just rewards of a bullet between the eyes for her actions. I wonder what she was like before all the bad things. She was a child once a little girl I want to know what she was like then before the bad things.

[daredevil]

We can only hope.

[daredevil]

How am I insane because I feel bad for her, feeling bad doesn't mean I don't think she has earned the just rewards of a bullet between the eyes for her actions. I wonder what she was like before all the bad things. She was a child once a little girl I want to know what she was like then before the bad things.

Sorry, insane wasn't the right word..... far sighted perhaps?

[yarri]

Sorry, insane wasn't the right word..... far sighted perhaps?

me having a visual defect doesn't explain why me feeling bad for her is bad :)

[Adventureless_Hero]

How am I insane because I feel bad for her, feeling bad doesn't mean I don't think she has earned the just rewards of a bullet between the eyes for her actions. I wonder what she was like before all the bad things. She was a child once a little girl I want to know what she was like then before the bad things.

Nature vs. Nurture?

I do think any person has the potential to grow up to be a great person, but in Scratch's case, that ship has sailed...off the edge of the world!

It's unfortunate that her family was screwed up like that. I mean, she gave her cousin just what he deserved,but she's broken now. I hate to sound like a know-it-all but I have sensed this from her since way back when she first suspected Lizzy was pregnant. I didn't think she had an abortion though. I just imagined she was unable to bring a child to term.

I do feel for Scratch, or the Scratch that could have been. Who knows if we'll ever learn her real name. The day she became Scratch, the day her family left her with a daily reminder on her face, I figure that girl she could have been died for good.

[Osiris]

You guys are all going to feel so stupid when the truth about Scratch is revealed.

[GeOsiris]

My personal experience is old, but I scanned the latest NRA pistol competition rule book and things still seem to reflect the old emphasis on weak hand shooting: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/Pistol/pistol-book.pdf

Where? I searched the document and the word "weak" didn't even come up once.

[Adventureless_Hero]

You guys are all going to feel so stupid when the truth about Scratch is revealed.

The truth being?

[VEE]

What you fail to remember is that weapon wasn't named for his wife it was HER gun. That piece was her favorite weapon he carried it as he would carry the last thing on earth that was hers with him it was a piece of her like an extension of her soul/body. Burt and Shirley didn't have kids, he had nothing left in the world to hold on to that reminded him of what she was and who she was other then that weapon. The finger was nothing he can over come it any good marksmen can and will over come with time a handycap like the loss of a trigger finger. But the loss of the desert eagle will be hard. Part of me is glad it happened like Osi said maybe now he'll grieve her and let her go and find something to live for in what's left of the world now.

No, it still doesn't ring true for me, it was just too much, regardless of any emotional attachment. On re-listening it wasn't just Bill, Scratch was over he top in that small section as well. This is how it sounded to me, others may well feel it was bang on.

[Osiris]

The truth being?

That she's really not as evil as you're all hoping she is. So she smashed a gun and lopped off a finger to get the truth about where the piece of shit that killed her brother ran off to. I'd have done worse for the information, no question. Not to mention the way she's been treating a certain pregnant woman... let's all conveniently over-look the fact that she's saved her, is caring for her, and protecting her. That heartless slag.

[yarri]

You guys are all going to feel so stupid when the truth about Scratch is revealed.


I agree I hope we at least get to know her real name.

[Osiris]

No, it still doesn't ring true for me, it was just too much, regardless of any emotional attachment. On re-listening it wasn't just Bill, Scratch was over he top in that small section as well. This is how it sounded to me, others may well feel it was bang on.

Ghosts are like that.

[yarri]

No, it still doesn't ring true for me, it was just too much, regardless of any emotional attachment. On re-listening it wasn't just Bill, Scratch was over he top in that small section as well. This is how it sounded to me, others may well feel it was bang on.


Grief does fuck up things to people. Everyone deals with grief in different ways this is how Burt dealt with his grief.

[yarri]

That she's really not as evil as you're all hoping she is. So she smashed a gun and lopped off a finger to get the truth about where the piece of shit that killed her brother ran off to. I'd have done worse for the information, no question. Not to mention the way she's been treating a certain pregnant woman... let's all conveniently over-look the fact that she's saved her, is caring for her, and protecting her. That heartless slag.

I know there is something more there. Its making me crazed I want to know more about her I was hopeful on this episode there was more to hear about her and her past. She was someone's little girl once. I want to know what happened.

[GeOsiris]

No, it still doesn't ring true for me, it was just too much, regardless of any emotional attachment. On re-listening it wasn't just Bill, Scratch was over he top in that small section as well. This is how it sounded to me, others may well feel it was bang on.

I agree, and it's what I've been saying since day one. I just can't get into her character because of how overplayed it is. Even when she is supposed to be mellow or soft spoken, it's overdone.

And the cackling in the scene....Jesus. "I'll get you my pretty, and your little dog too!"


Her voice reminds me of Kristin Wiig's character in the skit below.


http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/web-exclusive-the-californians---dress-version/1400626

[Osiris]

I know there is something more there. Its making me crazed I want to know more about her I was hopeful on this episode there was more to hear about her and her past. She was someone's little girl once. I want to know what happened.

I hope we never do. It would destroy the picture you all seem to have of some psychopath that probably tortured small animals when she was 8. Let me tell you what she was like at that age. She had her hair in a ribbon, she skipped down sidewalks in a little yellow and pink dress, and she loved her mommy. Just like everyone else.

[yarri]

I hope we never do. It would destroy the picture you all seem to have of some psychopath that probably tortured small animals when she was 8. Let me tell you what she was like at that age. She had her hair in a ribbon, she skipped down sidewalks in a little yellow and pink dress, and she loved her mommy. Just like everyone else.

That's how I picture her as well. Not as a budding psychopath but as a little girl with sausage curls and a doll. I still want to know her name she's the most heart breaking of all the characters.

[Osiris]

Yeah, Jenna's really done an amazing job bringing her to life.

[yarri]

Yeah, Jenna's really done an amazing job bringing her to life.

Osiris, I don't know about you but I want to just cry when I hear Scratch. I don't hear just anger in her voice I hear fear as well. Jenna is awesome she gives Scratch a soul.

[Osiris]

I don't cry. I'm a man.

[yarri]

I don't cry. I'm a man.

I know that so I'll do it for you. LOL Scratch is heart breaking

[Adventureless_Hero]

You think Bricks and Lizzy have a relationship? At the start of 31-1 he enters the room no problem, as though she were dressing and she didn't mind if he saw her.

Also, Lizzy said it was hard to drink a lot of water when they are rationing it. Me thinks the Mallony isn't fair so well.

[yarri]

You think Bricks and Lizzy have a relationship? At the start of 31-1 he enters the room no problem, as though she were dressing and she didn't mind if he saw her.

Also, Lizzy said it was hard to drink a lot of water when they are rationing it. Me thinks the Mallony isn't fair so well.


Brother and sister and it was discussed to death in the last chapter thread

[Adventureless_Hero]

Brother and sister and it was discussed to death in the last chapter thread

Sorry. I was on vacation. :S

a vita usque mortem

[yarri]

Sorry. I was on vacation. :S

a vita usque mortem

no worries :)

[Osiris]

Sorry. I was on vacation. :S

a vita usque mortem

We'll let it go this time, but don't do it again.

[Cabbage Patch]

Where? I searched the document and the word "weak" didn't even come up once.

Sent the wrong file: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/Action/act-book.pdf

It does look like the NRA guidance doesn't emphasize weak hand shooting, though they do include it in many of their approved course designs. My own experience was with NRA sanctioned courses in the 80s in Texas, and we had weak hand sequences for every course.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Burt crying over Shirley > Tom Hanks crying for Wilson

2024

[Ray]

Remember that time that Ray went on a 400 page rant, and I never read it? That shit was awesome.

I ask the mods, why is this allowed? Why are you allowing Osiris to attack me again? I've said nothing to this person, and yet they still treat me this way. I'm coming very close to quitting this community simply because of this one forum poster. I've said nothing malicious, evil, mean, derogatory, or inflammatory to this person since I've been posting and yet I'm still attacked. I really enjoy this podcast and the discussion around its twists and turns, but I'm very unhappy that you, the mods, allow someone to do this time and again. I'm sick of this persons childish behavior, ignorant attacks, and general hostility. Why do you tolerate this person acting this way? Are you all like this person? Disagreements are fine, personal attacks and rudeness aren't ways to treat other members and this should stop immediately.

[Ray]

That she's really not as evil as you're all hoping she is. So she smashed a gun and lopped off a finger to get the truth about where the piece of shit that killed her brother ran off to. I'd have done worse for the information, no question. Not to mention the way she's been treating a certain pregnant woman... let's all conveniently over-look the fact that she's saved her, is caring for her, and protecting her. That heartless slag.

You're going to be really enthused when she uses that child to get information from Saul. Scratch isn't noble, she's a psychotic murderer and there's more than enough proof to show it. Also, how is Pegs a piece of shit? Sounds like your feelings are clouding your rational judgement. Pegs didn't want to shoot John, and only did so to protect an unconscious Michael. Scratch has shot at least one person in cold blood (the dude she blamed for having the tanker stolen), and she beat some dude pretty severely for just looking at her in a store. She's no angel, and we've heard nothing that indicates otherwise.

[GeOsiris]

Sent the wrong file: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/Action/act-book.pdf

It does look like the NRA guidance doesn't emphasize weak hand shooting, though they do include it in many of their approved course designs. My own experience was with NRA sanctioned courses in the 80s in Texas, and we had weak hand sequences for every course.

Courses, yes. Competitions, no. Your original post mentioned weak shooting as a competitive requirement which is what confused me as there are no weak shooting requirements in IDPA or NRA.

It is, however, well advised to train weak and be as ambi as possible with your preferred weapon systems.

[Ray]

Hmmmm. It’s a gun. So what? Perhaps it’s because I’ve never had an emotional attachment to a firearm, but I don’t get it. The level of distress from seeing an inanimate object being broken was way too far up the scale to my mind. I get that it was named after his wife, I do, I get the whole connection, but it was still an inanimate object, it was a shame, sure, but come on. I hate to come across as a detractor as I love the series, but, probably for the first time I cringed a bit at the whole scene, until the finger was cut off, prior to that it was so far over the top it was in orbit. The finger cutting scene saved it and was very well done indeed, but, for me, was spoiled by what preceded it.

Pretty sure that was his wife's gun, not just a gun that had her name on it. It was the last thing he had to remember her by and Scratch laughed while she destroyed the only thing he had left in life that he cared for. He was split from the group, he was beaten, starved, cut with a knife multiple times, and chained to a wall. I don't think the fact she destroyed his wife's gun was the only reason he started crying. The man is broken physically and emotionally. Seeing that gun get destroyed may be what broke the camels back.

[GeOsiris]

I ask the mods, why is this allowed? Why are you allowing Osiris to attack me again? I've said nothing to this person, and yet they still treat me this way. I'm coming very close to quitting this community simply because of this one forum poster. I've said nothing malicious, evil, mean, derogatory, or inflammatory to this person since I've been posting and yet I'm still attacked. I really enjoy this podcast and the discussion around its twists and turns, but I'm very unhappy that you, the mods, allow someone to do this time and again. I'm sick of this persons childish behavior, ignorant attacks, and general hostility. Why do you tolerate this person acting this way? Are you all like this person? Disagreements are fine, personal attacks and rudeness aren't ways to treat other members and this should stop immediately.

And here I thought I was the only one.

[VEE]

Pretty sure that was his wife's gun, not just a gun that had her name on it. It was the last thing he had to remember her by and Scratch laughed while she destroyed the only thing he had left in life that he cared for. He was split from the group, he was beaten, starved, cut with a knife multiple times, and chained to a wall. I don't think the fact she destroyed his wife's gun was the only reason he started crying. The man is broken physically and emotionally. Seeing that gun get destroyed may be what broke the camels back.

Still doesn't matter, it's an inanimate object, and not the only thing he has to remind him of her, he has actual memories. I do understand the connection, and I do think he would react, but it was too much for me and when I listened I thought scratch overplayed it, the bit that followed was very good though, it was just that short section that I didnt feel sat right. Of course, others will disagree, which is fine.

[Ray]

I agree that we should all be more civil in dealing with matters of disagreement. If someone makes an unpopular or confusing comment very little is gained by the overkill of ridicule or satire. A better response would be to first determine if everyone is discussing same points and from what perspective. If all else fails, just agree to disagree or wait and see how the story unfolds.

Perhaps we can better judge Scratch's character by examining how she fits into the story-telling, or narrative, structure. By now, most of us have concluded that the story is told from the perspectives of the protagonists from the Tower. Sometimes the story is told from journal entries and other times we witness the story from a third person perspective limited to the heroes' experiences. Our view of Scratch will be limited by the heroes' interactions with Scratch. Keep in mind that she makes rare appearances in the story, and when she is present, she is usually seen by the main characters as a menace from one extreme to another. There have been few instances that would allow us to see her with any depth as those more personal sides of her would not be seen while she is taunting or tormenting Michael, Angel, Saul, Burt and the others. There have been instances when we can hear glimpses of humanity (Not necessarily compassion) in her voice, such as calling out John's name after he is shot, asking Angel if it is OK to pick up her brother's body, comforting a dying Angel or asking Lizzy if she's been sick at the Car dealership. We all can see how her tragic past can leave her scarred, especially when the story of the rape is spelled out for us. But, this is an audio drama and actors must show us things with their voices if the dialogue is vague or not explicit. Listen to how she sounds when Saul is listening to her and Latch outside the clothing store in Chapter 6 part 2 starting around 16 minutes. She says that she is 'not a waste', she is 'useful.'

She murdered their radio operator in cold blood after he "confessed" to falling asleep on duty. (well, I guess crippled so the zombies would get him, but essentially murdered him) She also had Kalani's daughter murdered, in cold blood (and a kid no less), in place of Lizzie on that golf course. An act Durai had no hand in, and she hid the fact that they were there at the Tower attacking it from him. Lizzie essentially confirmed this, she's a licensed shrink after all. John also lamented about her past behavior in beating someone severely that worked at a convenience store simply for staring at her scar. There's no reason to believe she has an ounce of compassion, and isn't clinically psychotic. She is written into the story in that capacity, and she's filling that role amazingly well. Jenna is a fantastic actor, but Scratch is anything but sane and compassionate, we've heard enough evidence to prove otherwise with 100% certainty. The story may be skewed in the eyes of the "good guys", but there's been more than enough interaction between her and thos not in the tower to tell us that she's no saint, and will kill, maim, destroy, and abuse to get her way. By projecting her warped and insane "family values" on others shows she has no grip on reality, and no sense of right and wrong. Her past life probably caused this psychosis, but that doesn't mean it's okay to act that way towards others. She's a convicted felon who spent time in solitary, how can anyone believe she's got any decency in her after finding that out, and her continued behavior afterwards.


Still doesn't matter, it's an inanimate object, and not the only thing he has to remind him of her, he has actual memories. I do understand the connection, and I do think he would react, but it was too much for me and when I listened I thought scratch overplayed it, the bit that followed was very good though, it was just that short section that I didnt feel sat right. Of course, others will disagree, which is fine.

I can see where you are coming from, but I have possessions that would be considered junk to other people that are worth more than ten times their weight in any precious metal. I would be gutted to lose them. Hell, of all the momentos I have from my time in the Marines, I'd trade all of it for a simple patch. Not because it's especially nice, it's not worth any money, but because it holds value to me because of the people that wore the same patch as me. They were my brothers, and not having that specific patch eats at me every day because I have looked through literally everything I own and I can't find it.

Sometimes memories aren't enough, sometimes it only feels real when you have a physical object to remind you of the people and experiences. The world has literally ended, he was left for dead in a bathroom, and the only person that saved him is dead for all he knows. He wasn't cool with the Tower guys at first, but they were really his only family. Now he's surrounded by people that will willingly beat him, cut him, and starve him to death just to get information from him that will allow them to kill the only family he has left. It may be an inanimate object to you and others, but I can see his pain.

[GeOsiris]

Still doesn't matter, it's an inanimate object, and not the only thing he has to remind him of her, he has actual memories. I do understand the connection, and I do think he would react, but it was too much for me and when I listened I thought scratch overplayed it, the bit that followed was very good though, it was just that short section that I didnt feel sat right. Of course, others will disagree, which is fine.

I'm with you. Scratch's character is overdone ad nauseum but I think it was the cackling that put it over the top for me this time. I also think it would have been more poetic for Scratch to shoot Burt with Shirley; maybe in the kneecap.

[Stuv]

Can I ask (and am not being sarcastic, just trying to understand) what would Scratch have to do for you to acknowledge that she has proven to be evil and sadistic. I understand that her brother was killed but he was not murdered. He was killed in clear self-defense. She visited terrible acts on people long before he was killed. I just don't think we can give her a free pass because she has had a difficult life. Many people have terrible childhoods and upbringing and rise e above it to do good. Again I am not trying to be confrontational Osiris honestly, just trying to understand.

I was trying to post in reply to Osiris. Sorry I stuck this in the wrong spot.

[Godsendunlimited]

Man KC... Kalani, then Angel, then Shirley, and then finally Burt's trigger finger! Your scarring me now. I love a good villain and you are making scratch a really good villain, but damn! Do not have her kill Burt there needs to be an epic battle between good and evil.

[PuddleWhite]

Can I ask (and am not being sarcastic, just trying to understand) what would Scratch have to do for you to acknowledge that she has proven to be evil and sadistic.
Refusing to be my girlfriend would do it for me personally.
Joking aside, i think we've reached a point where no one's debating what scratch does, and we even have a sort of consensus why she does things, and all thats left is our own personal opinion of her. And i cant see how we can reach a consensus about that...

[yarri]

Still doesn't matter, it's an inanimate object, and not the only thing he has to remind him of her, he has actual memories. I do understand the connection, and I do think he would react, but it was too much for me and when I listened I thought scratch overplayed it, the bit that followed was very good though, it was just that short section that I didnt feel sat right. Of course, others will disagree, which is fine.

Memories fade in time and the weapon is ... was a trigger to relive those memories.




I can see where you are coming from, but I have possessions that would be considered junk to other people that are worth more than ten times their weight in any precious metal. I would be gutted to lose them. Hell, of all the momentos I have from my time in the Marines, I'd trade all of it for a simple patch. Not because it's especially nice, it's not worth any money, but because it holds value to me because of the people that wore the same patch as me. They were my brothers, and not having that specific patch eats at me every day because I have looked through literally everything I own and I can't find it.

Sometimes memories aren't enough, sometimes it only feels real when you have a physical object to remind you of the people and experiences. The world has literally ended, he was left for dead in a bathroom, and the only person that saved him is dead for all he knows. He wasn't cool with the Tower guys at first, but they were really his only family. Now he's surrounded by people that will willingly beat him, cut him, and starve him to death just to get information from him that will allow them to kill the only family he has left. It may be an inanimate object to you and others, but I can see his pain.


OH awesome someone understands me. I have this pin my first husband gave it to me when I made e4 as a storekeeper in the USN. Its my crossed keys its a nothing item but it had been his before he gave it me and it meant the world to me as he had given it to me. Even after all these years when the sound of his voice has faded and the memories of how bad things were when it ended have faded the memory of that pin and the feelings that went with it are still strong.

[7oddisdead]

The only difference I can see in what you all are describing with mementos (I have a few of those myself) and what Shirley was to Burt is..burt seemed to treat the gun as if it was the physical embodiment of Shirley. In that way, its as if the real Shirley never died...having keepsakes to remind you of something/someone is perfectly fine, perhaps even healthy in most cases...but when an item replaces a persons physical being in your everyday life?...no. That's not good, no matter how you try to spin it otherwise.

[yarri]

The only difference I can see in what you all are describing with mementos (I have a few of those myself) and what Shirley was to Burt is..burt seemed to treat the gun as if it was the physical embodiment of Shirley. In that way, its as if the real Shirley never died...having keepsakes to remind you of something/someone is perfectly fine, perhaps even healthy in most cases...but when an item replaces a persons physical being in your everyday life?...no. That's not good, no matter how you try to spin it otherwise.

Which is why I agreed with Osiris that maybe its destruction will free him to grieve fully. He's never really grieved for her.

[Eviebae]

I don't remember ever hating her, more thinking she was a roadblock to our heroes. I've always cringed when our &quot;heroes&quot; called her names because she was scarred. She seems so trapped by her past and...

[7oddisdead]

Which is why I agreed with Osiris that maybe its destruction will free him to grieve fully. He's never really grieved for her.

Exactly..must have missed that one. Just woke up.

[yarri]

I don't remember ever hating her, more thinking she was a roadblock to our heroes. I've always cringed when our "heroes" called her names because she was scarred. She seems so trapped by her past and present. I love that you can read her past through her present behavior and I love that you can also read it in her tone of voice. I thought you could hear feelings of rage, triumph, sadistic glee AND like a part of her didn't want to do this. Like a part of her was scared at how far she was going.

Totally spot on. The more I reflect back on what I felt for her it was't really anger at her but at what she was doing. I've also heard fear in her voice.

[forgottenone]

Wow.. I have finally made it through all the posts. This was some chapter. I think we all like it soo much that we think it’s short because we don’t want it to end.

Anyway, I guess I’m the only one, but I totally missed that Burt’s finger was actually cut off. I heard the lead up to it, but it sounded like something happened and it was ‘cut’ but not cut off. Burt seemed too calm for it to have actually been cut off. Burt took a big fall off a building right? He should have been in some serious pain/disposition. From this chapter, I got the feeling that he didn’t have many injuries. Sure it has been a few months, but he seemed to move and react pretty quickly. (OK relistened.. I got it now. Sheesh, was I slow. )

What I’m thinking, hoping, is that Saul and Victor in going to get the SAT parts and looking for Lizzy will find Burt and rescue everyone. I wonder if Lizzy even knows Burt is even there (guessing not).

Regarding Burts relationship to Shirley. I think unless you have been in that situtation, you can only speculate how you'd feel and/or handle the situation. It's different when you are there and its close to the heart.

BTW, what is the relationship between Durai and Scratch? Who's running the show? It sounded like Durai is the lead man, but Scratch sure seems to run everything. Most leaders, Durai, would give the orders and everyone (Scratch) would carry them out.. I would have expected.

[Eviebae]

BTW, what is the relationship between Durai and Scratch? Who's running the show? It sounded like Durai is the lead man, but Scratch sure seems to run everything. Most leaders, Durai, would give the orders and everyone (Scratch) would carry them out.. I would have expected.

I think she gets things done; but, when she needs to do something she knows he won't like she "handles" him. I don't think she has the perspective to be a great leader but with time...who knows. It's sort of implied by what Scratch thought the Family's reaction would be to her pregnancy that within the family structure women are second class, maybe third. We really haven't seen anything to imply that there are anyone else from the family involved in the Mallers but she might capitulate out of habit.

[Jordan531]

Excellent episode, i loved "you thought a few scars were bad..." "heh, im still prettier than you. Hehheh".Burt is absolutely my favorite character and has been since he was intro'd...as soon as the hammer came out I was like "oh, nononono" and then Shirley O_O, it was heartwrenching knowing how much I love some of my gun collection and that it was a memory of his wife :(::::. I know it's been said but my first thought was "bet he's left handed". And even if he isn't, between being a Marine vet and comp shooter he can sure as hell shoot lefty. I don't shoot nearly as often as I'd like but I always practice weak hand. And although I don't remember them explicitly stating what Burts dominant hand it, Scratch made a point of saying "now for the left one" before Bricks stopped her.

I can see (hear?) it now...."forgot one thing scarface.....I'm left handed." BOOM!

I hope Burt destroys her, she tortured him ,took his finger, and symbolically beat his deceased wife.

[RYE]

This was a tough chapter it brought me back to the forums after a long break. I really feel for Burt. Scratch is evil and her time is coming there are only two acceptable outcomes.

1) She get it from a biter. (I keep dreaming Ink has his way with her, but I dont see that. It would be really satisifying!!!)

2) Burt gets his revenge. During the escape I see Saul/rescue party coming across Burt. Not being able to leave his cell, due to injury or locked door/chains he asks Saul for a pistol and waits knowing Scratch is going to be on a warpath in the escape. I can already see him sitting in the corner waiting.... waiting... a smile on his face. Waiting for old scarface....... Burts revenge.

[Miss]

throughly enjoyed this eposode, actually season 3 has been my fave so far,
@Rye both options I could see happen........though I could see Burt going to LOOK for Scrach instead of waiting for her, though I have a theory that Bricks is sick and tired of all the BS and tells Lizzy about Burt and she talks him into letting her into see him and the 3 of them hatch a plan and as they are doing the plan Saul and Victor show up with Glenn and shortly after they show up Mike and Rilley show up! ok so I havent come up with a reason why Mike and Rilley have shown up but it gets them back together

[Osiris]

throughly enjoyed this eposode, actually season 3 has been my fave so far,
@Rye both options I could see happen........though I could see Burt going to LOOK for Scrach instead of waiting for her, though I have a theory that Bricks is sick and tired of all the BS and tells Lizzy about Burt and she talks him into letting her into see him and the 3 of them hatch a plan and as they are doing the plan Saul and Victor show up with Glenn and shortly after they show up Mike and Rilley show up! ok so I havent come up with a reason why Mike and Rilley have shown up but it gets them back together

God, I hope not. That'd be a waste of 3 seasons.

[IamPaul]

Great episode. Finally getting to see an underling stand up to Scratch. I am more and more standing firm on the Mallers climax this season. It just seems to me it is all coming to a dramatic end. Can I be the first to claim that? I did a few episodes back, and got almost no support. Maybe we won't hear from Ft. Irwin until the season finale.

[Dyhoerium]

2) Burt gets his revenge. During the escape I see Saul/rescue party coming across Burt. Not being able to leave his cell, due to injury or locked door/chains he asks Saul for a pistol and waits knowing Scratch is going to be on a warpath in the escape. I can already see him sitting in the corner waiting.... waiting... a smile on his face. Waiting for old scarface....... Burts revenge.

Wow, I love that idea! Burt's my favorite, but I might actually be okay with that kind of ending for Burt.

[Osiris]

Great episode. Finally getting to see an underling stand up to Scratch. I am more and more standing firm on the Mallers climax this season. It just seems to me it is all coming to a dramatic end. Can I be the first to claim that? I did a few episodes back, and got almost no support. Maybe we won't hear from Ft. Irwin until the season finale.

I got pretty sick of Ft. Irwin. Frankly, I'm happy for the reprieve. As for whether or not it'll be a Maller climax... I hope not. They've been the "antagonists" since the beginning. I don't think I could stomach a season of Michael bitching endlessly, Saul storming off every two minutes, and Burt whining about his finger. When there's no more Scratch & co. I'm done listening.

[Osiris]

I ask the mods, why is this allowed? Why are you allowing Osiris to attack me again? I've said nothing to this person, and yet they still treat me this way. I'm coming very close to quitting this community simply because of this one forum poster. I've said nothing malicious, evil, mean, derogatory, or inflammatory to this person since I've been posting and yet I'm still attacked. I really enjoy this podcast and the discussion around its twists and turns, but I'm very unhappy that you, the mods, allow someone to do this time and again. I'm sick of this persons childish behavior, ignorant attacks, and general hostility. Why do you tolerate this person acting this way? Are you all like this person? Disagreements are fine, personal attacks and rudeness aren't ways to treat other members and this should stop immediately.


You're going to be really enthused when she uses that child to get information from Saul. Scratch isn't noble, she's a psychotic murderer and there's more than enough proof to show it. Also, how is Pegs a piece of shit? Sounds like your feelings are clouding your rational judgement. Pegs didn't want to shoot John, and only did so to protect an unconscious Michael. Scratch has shot at least one person in cold blood (the dude she blamed for having the tanker stolen), and she beat some dude pretty severely for just looking at her in a store. She's no angel, and we've heard nothing that indicates otherwise.

Wow, you mad. Maybe if you didn't bitch constantly, I'd be more inclined to read your posts. But your digs are pretty cool there, bet you feel vindicated thinking that it bothers me. Truth told, I still didn't read all this shit and probably never will.


Can I ask (and am not being sarcastic, just trying to understand) what would Scratch have to do for you to acknowledge that she has proven to be evil and sadistic. I understand that her brother was killed but he was not murdered. He was killed in clear self-defense. She visited terrible acts on people long before he was killed. I just don't think we can give her a free pass because she has had a difficult life. Many people have terrible childhoods and upbringing and rise e above it to do good. Again I am not trying to be confrontational Osiris honestly, just trying to understand.

I was trying to post in reply to Osiris. Sorry I stuck this in the wrong spot.

We've been over this, and over this. But you're relatively new, so I'll give you the basics of it.

The entire story goes back to the shot heard around the world. Burt shooting out the mirror of the tanker truck during the pissing contest between Scratch and himself, back in season one. Put two stubborn people in a locked room and see how long it takes before they go at each other. From there everything escalates, like you read about. We all listened, so we all know how it happened, most of us just choose to take a blind eye to it all and live in denial because of the way the story was introduced to us: The Tower are the 'good guys'.

The long and short of the Latch saga is simple. Her brother was murdered (self-defence being arguable) and like anyone else--argue this if you like, but I'll stand behind this to the day I die--she wanted blood for it. Justifiable 100%. As far as what 'made' her 'psychotic,' we still don't have all the details on that. You can say it was being repeatedly raped by a member of 'the family' but truth is, we still don't know. We don't know if it's simply the light she's being portrayed in or not. We're all very much guessing (I don't care what anyone says, the story isn't finished and the story itself is inherently biased, deal with it) at this point, and will likely see the series finale leaving us with a lot of unanswered questions.

You want to know what will make me say "Oh snap, dat bitch craycray" then have her butcher the newborn. Until then she's just a girl out looking for blood to repay a debt. Eye for an eye, bitch. You're all calling for it. You're all quite righteous in your beliefs that she's wicked and must be punished. I say "Whatever you need to say to get through the night." Personally, I hope she gets Pegs and wears her skin by the series finale.

P.S. You never came across as confrontational, bro. It's all good. :love:

[Cabbage Patch]

The entire story goes back to the shot heard around the world. Burt shooting out the mirror of the tanker truck during the pissing contest between Scratch and himself, back in season one...


As always, a fascinating and compelling case. Why does it remind me of this?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzt409x8L14

[Osiris]

As always, a fascinating and compelling case. Why does it remind me of this?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzt409x8L14

Remember that time when your mobile links were terrible? Good times. :D

[7oddisdead]

Worked fine for me...





:hsugh:

[nikvoodoo]

I found it to be an apt comparison. Though I doubt Barney has ever defended his position with such vigor as Osiris re: Scratch.

[Free_Falling86]

The entire story goes back to the shot heard around the world. Burt (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Burt) shooting out the mirror of the tanker truck during the pissing contest between Scratch and himself, back in season one. Put two stubborn people in a locked room and see how long it takes before they go at each other. From there everything escalates, like you read about. We all listened, so we all know how it happened, most of us just choose to take a blind eye to it all and live in denial because of the way the story was introduced to us: The Tower (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=The+Tower) are the 'good guys'.

The long and short of the Latch (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Latch) saga is simple. Her brother was murdered (self-defence being arguable) and like anyone else--argue this if you like, but I'll stand behind this to the day I die--she wanted blood for it. Justifiable 100%. As far as what 'made' her 'psychotic,' we still don't have all the details on that. You can say it was being repeatedly raped by a member of 'the family' but truth is, we still don't know. We don't know if it's simply the light she's being portrayed in or not. We're all very much guessing (I don't care what anyone says, the story isn't finished and the story itself is inherently biased, deal with it) at this point, and will likely see the series finale leaving us with a lot of unanswered questions (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Unanswered+Questions).

I very much agree with this. As much as I love We're Alive (and that is a whole honking lot), it is told pretty much told in the protagonists' (read: Tower members) point of view, as many stories are. So anyone against the protagonists are shed in a negative light for the most part, which is the case with Scratch. The story is not told with an omniscient narrator so when we first meet Scratch and Latch, we as the listener are not supposed to like them. Suffice to say, her actions towards the Tower certainly don't endear the listener to her, but there is more to Scratch than what we've been given. We will most likely never get to hear her story, and if we do, it will still most likely be cast down by our heroes. Scratch is a murderer, Scratch is evil, Scratch is no better than the biters, so why should we care... However, I have always found the antagonist the most interesting. Maybe it's because they're mysterious and we usually never get to hear their story, but I still can't help but be interested and like them. I sometimes can't agree with their methods and means but I certainly can see where they're coming from (99% of the time that is).

One thing that is a bit of a pet peeve of mine is when people slap labels on characters willy nilly. Like calling Scratch psychotic and psychopathic. The truth of the matter is, we really don't know. I wouldn't categorize her as psychotic because she doesn't fit the bill. She doesn't have false beliefs that are not based in reality nor is she hearing, seeing, or feeling things that are not there. She knows exactly what she's doing. She's just trying to figure out how to get to that point. And, well, she maybe psychopathic, but there's just as a high percentage if not higher that she isn't. Psychologists actually are arguing about psychopathy and what it is and what personality elements should be included in its definition. If the experts are having a hard time figuring it out, how are we supposed to know. The truth of the matter is we don't. She may have certain behavioral characteristics that fit in within the current psychopathic definition, but we still can't say that she's a psychopath because all we're given is the witness and stories told of her bad actions. We were lucky to get a bit of back story from Scratch (thank you Kc!!!) that wasn't inherently shown in a negative light. But I'm afraid those moments will be few and far between. But it is understandable why she's accused of it because psychopathy tends to be used as a label for people we do not like, cannot understand, or construe as evil. And I understand why people hate her. Heck, the only villain I loathe is Iago from Othello, and I wanted to take a knife and run him through. But I just can't see Scratch in that manner.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

[Osiris]

Worked fine for me...



:hsugh:

Zip it, nurf herder.

[Osiris]

I very much agree with this. As much as I love We're Alive (and that is a whole honking lot), it is told pretty much told in the protagonists' (read: Tower members) point of view, as many stories are. So anyone against the protagonists are shed in a negative light for the most part, which is the case with Scratch. The story is not told with an omniscient narrator so when we first meet Scratch and Latch, we as the listener are not supposed to like them. Suffice to say, her actions towards the Tower certainly don't endear the listener to her, but there is more to Scratch than what we've been given. We will most likely never get to hear her story, and if we do, it will still most likely be cast down by our heroes. Scratch is a murderer, Scratch is evil, Scratch is no better than the biters, so why should we care... However, I have always found the antagonist the most interesting. Maybe it's because they're mysterious and we usually never get to hear their story, but I still can't help but be interested and like them. I sometimes can't agree with their methods and means but I certainly can see where they're coming from (99% of the time that is).

One thing that is a bit of a pet peeve of mine is when people slap labels on characters willy nilly. Like calling Scratch psychotic and psychopathic. The truth of the matter is, we really don't know. I wouldn't categorize her as psychotic because she doesn't fit the bill. She doesn't have false beliefs that are not based in reality nor is she hearing, seeing, or feeling things that are not there. She knows exactly what she's doing. She's just trying to figure out how to get to that point. And, well, she maybe psychopathic, but there's just as a high percentage if not higher that she isn't. Psychologists actually are arguing about psychopathy and what it is and what personality elements should be included in its definition. If the experts are having a hard time figuring it out, how are we supposed to know. The truth of the matter is we don't. She may have certain behavioral characteristics that fit in within the current psychopathic definition, but we still can't say that she's a psychopath because all we're given is the witness and stories told of her bad actions. We were lucky to get a bit of back story from Scratch (thank you Kc!!!) that wasn't inherently shown in a negative light. But I doubt that will be few and far between. But it is understandable why she's accused of it because psychopathy tends to be used as a label for people we do not like, cannot understand, or construe as evil. And I understand why people hate her. Heck, the only villain I loathe is Iago from Othello, and I wanted to take a knife and run him through. But I just can't see Scratch in that manner.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

All true.

[Osiris]

I found it to be an apt comparison. Though I doubt Barney has ever defended his position with such vigor as Osiris re: Scratch.

Meh. The work speaks for itself now.

[Leedo2502]

I wonder when CJ got the SWAT van, and if she shared that information with her prior "tenants". An armored van full of guns might have made all the difference when the Dunbar Tower survivors attacked the Arena to rescue Samantha. If they were kept in the dark about its existence than I think that's another hit on CJ's leadership.

It didn't seem like the other Tower types were left wanting in the guns dept. I think the SWAT van was just back-up. And unless it was parked behind the Dunbar Tower then it really doesn't come into play for when they get over run

[Ray]

The truth of the matter is, we really don't know.

What would you call getting a false confession from someone, cutting them deep in the process to get the zombies to smell the blood, and then leaving them to die? How would you explain her baiting the Tower guys into meeting them at the golf course, and then having an innocent 14 year old girl executed? Is that the work of a sane person? Murdering innocent people in cold blood to get vengence? I understand fully why she wants to kill Pegs, but neither of those two people had anything to do with Pegs shooting Latch. Absolutely nothing. Hannah didn't even know Pegs, but she was executed all the same. She's killing, maiming, and torturing people to get what she wants. Where exactly have any of the Tower residents done the same? They've risked their lives and their safety multiple times to save people they didn't know. The very beginning of the series started with Michael saying that they owed it to people out there to save them, and give them a better chance at living. I don't see how the difference could be any more clear.

[Leedo2502]

Yea, it's looking like my CJ is SWAT theory got a bump in the right direction. I have a whole thread dedicated to it. The fact that CJ just so happens to have a SWAT van (remember folks, one of CJ's minions was SWAT!) and a pile of SWAT like munitions. Sure it could just be the fact that one of her minions was SWAT and that's how she came to possess the SWAT van, but then you are still left with the question of just exactly where did CJ get her skills? She's well trained in close quarters combat, firearms, strategic planning and quartermastering (for lack of a better word).

Ok not to burst your bubble... If CJ was on a SWAT team that doesn't mean much. SWAT teams are pretty much concerned with EBCR (Enter Building, Clear Room). THeir training is so specialized that it is almost a hinderance in other feilds. Think of them as an olympic sprinter, they are great at the one thing they focus on but lost anywhere else. Saul being an Infantryman is far better equiped to handle the post-apocolyptic zombieland that is LA. Saul Michael and Angel would be considered decathletes, they are far better trained to deal with the broad spectrum of dangers.
The Nashvile SWAT guys we cross trained with at FT. Campbell were pretty much one trick ponies, They focus on the target building then break it down on the target room(s) and then operate from a secured enviorment then make an assault on the target, if they take casualties they use EMS. Drinking coffee in a mobile command center before an assault on a cordoned off building isn't the same as a movement to contact in the woods or an urban enviorment.

Long story short, CJ may be SWAT but at this point in the story it really doesn't matter except she would be handy with a rifle and that's it.

On a side note I'm not sure what the difference between a "SWAT like Munition" and a regular round is... and what is "Quartermastering?"

[Ray]

I'm surprised that Saul is so dependent on CJ for planning. From what I know of the 10th Mountain Division, I wouldn't think that they would have any problem thinking clearly and planning missions. Then again, he is a poor shot but that's a common trait in the Army. It may be just that Saul sucks at it, but it kind of goes against his backstory of infantry experience.

[Leedo2502]

Then again, he is a poor shot but that's a common trait in the Army.

I take exception to that comment...

[Ray]

I didn't say everyone in the Army is a poor shot, just that it's common.

[Leedo2502]

I didn't say everyone in the Army is a poor shot, just that it's common.

Maybe in the non-combat arms MOS's (well non-Infantry really). But not anymore than the Marines that are non-infanty. And I'd hardly call it common... As a matter of fact the top marine marksman this year at the National Matches placed 5th place... behind 2 Army dudes an Army reservist and a civilian (prior Army)

And if memory serves he's a poor shot with a M-249 (and is a fictional character).

[Osiris]

Maybe in the non-combat arms MOS's (well non-Infantry really). But not anymore than the Marines that are non-infanty. And I'd hardly call it common... As a matter of fact the top marine marksman this year at the National Matches placed 5th place... behind 2 Army dudes an Army reservist and a civilian (prior Army)

And if memory serves he's a poor shot with a M-249 (and is a fictional character).

Fuck no. He's real. Don't you know that?
















































:hsugh:

[Condor]

Holy Shit!! I think I stopped breathing While Scratch went at Shirley & Burt. I was on the edge of my seat and jumped with each whack of the hammer while white-knuckling the arms of my recliner. Great episode

Somebody get Burt some Viagra so he can seriously skull-fuck that bitch.




If we had a story where everyone who was good having nothing bad happen or nearly happen to them, WA would be a terribly dull thing to listen to...
:cough: Walking Dead. :cough:


Maybe he is now... But have you ever tried to write anything with your left? (Assuming you're right handed like the rest of the normal people)

DISCLAIMER: No offense was made to the south paws (Is that how it's really spelled? Weird)

BUT. he was right handed. Scratch saw his affinity for the gun and how he used it in Ch 6.
Actually I have tried writing left handed. I can't do it very well, but I could do it if I had to.


every time i go shooting, i always make sure to shoot left handed. it's not as easy, and i'm not as accurate, but i can hit the target. any shooter worth his salt can shoot lefty, and a lot of marksman actually use their middle finger as their trigger finger, because a trick of point shointing is pointing at the target with your index finger. granted, it doesn't sound like burt was a point shooter, and he won't be shooting with that hand for a while, nor will he be at the same level he was before, but burt is far from out of the game imo.
So true. Admittedly shooting left handed is a skill I need to improve on. Whenever I can get some range time, it's at the top of my list, well right under shooting a few guns I've never fired.


This finger was such an amazing symbol for Burt on so many levels. Everything Burt is, was, and will-be was dependent on three small segments of bone and knuckle. Without his gun, he's a defenseless, old man with nothing more than a minor understanding of generators and radios... Plus, Burt judges his self-worth on his ability to shoot -- just look back to when he got the shakes for a week. Taking away his trigger finger isn't just making it harder for him to survive, it's essentially taking away his "manhood" (even more, it's the one piece of his body that fits into the symbol of his wife, Shirley). This episode was just brilliant writing, and Lizzy would have a field day analyzing this stuff.
Well stated.


It didn't seem like the other Tower types were left wanting in the guns dept. I think the SWAT van was just back-up. And unless it was parked behind the Dunbar Tower then it really doesn't come into play for when they get over run
She did say the guns in the van were a second secret stash. We also know she had a secret stash in the basement of the tower. When the tower was over-run, it wasn't an issue of lack of weapons, just not enough time to get them.

[Cabbage Patch]

She did say the guns in the van were a second secret stash. We also know she had a secret stash in the basement of the tower. When the tower was over-run, it wasn't an issue of lack of weapons, just not enough time to get them.

Don't forget Kalani's conversation with Sean as the Other Tower was being over run (Chapter 27, Part 3):

Kalani: "Where are the guns?"
Sean: "They're locked up".
Kalani: "Where?"
Sean: "On the other side of where we are".

The issue wasn't a lack of guns, or inadequate time to get them. It's that the residents weren't trusted to keep their weapons with them, so they were all sitting, useless, in an arms room.

[Free_Falling86]

What would you call getting a false confession from someone, cutting them deep in the process to get the zombies to smell the blood, and then leaving them to die? How would you explain her baiting the Tower guys into meeting them at the golf course, and then having an innocent 14 year old girl executed? Is that the work of a sane person? Murdering innocent people in cold blood to get vengence? I understand fully why she wants to kill Pegs, but neither of those two people had anything to do with Pegs shooting Latch. Absolutely nothing. Hannah didn't even know Pegs, but she was executed all the same. She's killing, maiming, and torturing people to get what she wants. Where exactly have any of the Tower residents done the same? They've risked their lives and their safety multiple times to save people they didn't know. The very beginning of the series started with Michael saying that they owed it to people out there to save them, and give them a better chance at living. I don't see how the difference could be any more clear.

I call that extremely violent, but neither insane or psychopathic. However, not every violent criminal has a mental/psychological disorder. This isn't intended to be rude or condescending, but please remember that she is part of the Family, more or less spelled out that she is in the American Cosa Nostra (or Mafia if you will). They have their own way of living and their own rules, everyone else be darned. Although their main purpose is to earn money, the Mafia has quite the reputation for its violence and murder. Heck, what she did was no worse than putting a favored horse's head in the enemy's bed or any of the things seen on the Soprano. You might say that those are sensationalized, but it is all based on true events and not a stranger to real life occurrences. Each Family has its own set of rules, so I can't say what Scratch's Family follows. Was Hannah's death tragic? Yes. However, Hannah was only a means to an end for the Mallers. La Casa Nostra translates to "this thing of ours". She wasn't part of the Family. Also, do we know for certain that Scratch thought Kalani was dead after the first Tower attack failure? I'll have to go back and re-listen. Because if she had even the smallest inkling that Kalani had switched teams, then the death of Hannah could have been for vengeance. Kalani could have spilled his guts about what he knew about the Mallers (which is breaking the Code of Silence, a punishment worthy of vengeance and death in the eyes of the Family) Anyways, she was dead either way the instance she got in Scratch's and Latch's car with Kalani. Interesting how all 3 of the survivors (Kalani, Hannah, and Pippin) are now dead. It's because the Mallers (and essentially The Family) could care less about them. They are all means to an end. And the only reason (that we know so far) that Lizzie is being protected the way she is and not being tortured or even left for dead is because of Scratch's past. She could have easily have let Tardust or any other Maller have at it, but she didn't. Scratch seems to not take notice of the social structure though. We don't have much information to go off of with the Mallers, but from what we know, it seems Durai is the Boss (or Don), and Scratch (since breaking the Mallers out) has taken place as the Under Boss (2nd in Command) and also the Capo (the Lieutenant over the "soldiers"/those who do the dirty work). But Scratch isn't afraid of getting her hands dirty.

Also, I seem to remember quite a few examples of heroes torturing and/or killing needlessly, and instead of being labelled evil and insane, they instead get labelled a BAMF instead. The most popular of examples is Jack Bauer from 24. He has as much blood on his hands as all the villains he went against. However, since he saved the day, he is lauded as a hero and totally awesome. Liam Neesan in the movie Taken. I remember a rather brutal torture scene and then leaving the guy for dead. The folks over in Law & Order:SVU had several moments. Heck, even Buffy from Buffy the Vampire Slayer has tortured needlessly. But since they're the villains, the demons, we the viewer aren't supposed to care. We're supposed to cheer instead. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me....

But it seems that you have your mind made up, and you don't want to even step an iota from your decision/belief. And I understand and respect that. However, I just wanted to answer your question that you posed to me. I hope you took no offense from what I said. This is just how I see it and what I've come up with after listening and researching. Thanks Kc! I've put in some great research on some very interesting subjects since listening to the last few Chapters. A sign of a great story!

[daredevil]

I call that extremely violent, but neither insane or psychopathic. However, not every violent criminal has a mental/psychological disorder. This isn't intended to be rude or condescending, but please remember that she is part of the Family, more or less spelled out that she is in the American Cosa Nostra (or Mafia if you will). They have their own way of living and their own rules, everyone else be darned. Although their main purpose is to earn money, the Mafia has quite the reputation for its violence and murder. Heck, what she did was no worse than putting a favored horse's head in the enemy's bed or any of the things seen on the Soprano. You might say that those are sensationalized, but it is all based on true events and not a stranger to real life occurrences. Each Family has its own set of rules, so I can't say what Scratch's Family follows. Was Hannah's death tragic? Yes. However, Hannah was only a means to an end for the Mallers. La Casa Nostra translates to "this thing of ours". She wasn't part of the Family. Also, do we know for certain that Scratch thought Kalani was dead after the first Tower attack failure? I'll have to go back and re-listen. Because if she had even the smallest inkling that Kalani had switched teams, then the death of Hannah could have been for vengeance. Kalani could have spilled his guts about what he knew about the Mallers (which is breaking the Code of Silence, a punishment worthy of vengeance and death in the eyes of the Family) Anyways, she was dead either way the instance she got in Scratch's and Latch's car with Kalani. Interesting how all 3 of the survivors (Kalani, Hannah, and Pippin) are now dead. It's because the Mallers (and essentially The Family) could care less about them. They are all means to an end. And the only reason (that we know so far) that Lizzie is being protected the way she is and not being tortured or even left for dead is because of Scratch's past. She could have easily have let Tardust or any other Maller have at it, but she didn't. Scratch seems to not take notice of the social structure though. We don't have much information to go off of with the Mallers, but from what we know, it seems Durai is the Boss (or Don), and Scratch (since breaking the Mallers out) has taken place as the Under Boss (2nd in Command) and also the Capo (the Lieutenant over the "soldiers"/those who do the dirty work). But Scratch isn't afraid of getting her hands dirty.

Also, I seem to remember quite a few examples of heroes torturing and/or killing needlessly, and instead of being labelled evil and insane, they instead get labelled a BAMF instead. The most popular of examples is Jack Bauer from 24. He has as much blood on his hands as all the villains he went against. However, since he saved the day, he is lauded as a hero and totally awesome. Liam Neesan in the movie Taken. I remember a rather brutal torture scene and then leaving the guy for dead. The folks over in Law & Order:SVU had several moments. Heck, even Buffy from Buffy the Vampire Slayer has tortured needlessly. But since they're the villains, the demons, we the viewer aren't supposed to care. We're supposed to cheer instead. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me....

But it seems that you have your mind made up, and you don't want to even step an iota from your decision/belief. And I understand and respect that. However, I just wanted to answer your question that you posed to me. I hope you took no offense from what I said. This is just how I see it and what I've come up with after listening and researching. Thanks Kc! I've put in some great research on some very interesting subjects since listening to the last few Chapters. A sign of a great story!

Are you Insane or Psychopathic?

[Free_Falling86]

Are you Insane or Psychopathic?

Neither. I'm a Graphic Designer and a part-time actress. Though I guess the insane part could be debatable. My parents and close friends seem to like to call me crazy often enough :D

[daredevil]

Neither. I'm a Graphic Designer and a part-time actress. Though I guess the insane part could be debatable. My parents and close friends seem to like to call me crazy often enough :D

Exactly, you're not insane or psychopathic. Scratch though.....

Graphic Design and Actress... nice jobs.

[7oddisdead]

i personally found that^ up there to be a very apt assessment of the situation.

and another thought occurred to me

i was reading though the posts just a bit ago and a thing witch_doctor said really struck me, and got mind my going in a new direction. what if we are getting the "spin" effect of the story being told from the journals? by this i mean, what if scratch really isn't that over the top evil( no wicked witch laugh during the torture scene) what if datu's accent actually isnt shitty ( ever notice how it gets better when HE's the one narrating?) what if burt does'nt always sound like dirty harry in apacolypse now?...i dunno, its a rather whacked out idea...but hey, thats what im here for right??

[VEE]

Memories fade in time and the weapon is ... was a trigger to relive those memories.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that, or anything much really, just that, to my ears, the reaction to losing it was over the top and spoiled an otherwise excellent section, which also wasn't helped by Scratch's performance, only for that short minute or so though.

I'm happy to agree to disagree, we are all allowed our own opinions :D

[Adventureless_Hero]

I do think Scratch is psychotic. It is very likely the result of her upbringing but the fact remains; bitch cray-cray!

Is there a bit of a spin being portrayed because the journals are being written from the perspective of the tower folk? I dunno, let's ask a non-Tower resident, like Hannah, or Charlie (bloke she framed for not watching the Tanker and then bled for the zeds to feed on). Dude, Scratch is very cruel and seems to take pleasure in hurting others. And though Osiris can argue otherwise as he is very welcome to do so (opinions rule!) I feel that Scratch has been responsible for a lot of the negative shit going on. Rather than abide by a Live and Let Live rule, she has proven to be the sort that adopts an I Live and You Give rule.

Sure, sure, at the moment she is being kind to Lizzy, but I think that serves Scratch more than it does Lizzy. She's doing it to fill that void in her life. She can have anything she wants and is ruthless in seeking it out. I don't know if the abortion she had at sixteen left her unable to have children again, but at current she is keeping Lizzy alive because she is pregnant. Scratch won't hurt the baby. Not sure if because hurting a baby is an evil she dare not commit or if it is because she wants to be a parent. I don't think she'd kill Lizzy after the baby is born...at least, not right away. But I do think that eventually she'd want to be that baby's parent. It's just not in the cards though.

Another thing Scratch wants but can't have is vengeance. I do believe she really did love her brother. I have no idea if she'll ever get a chance to shoot Pegs.

It's going to be crazy when Bricks has a rage-fit and chokes Lizzy to death. Then Scratch will fucking murder Bricks and the audience will temporarily love her again. ;P

[daredevil]

I do think Scratch is psychotic. It is very likely the result of her upbringing but the fact remains; bitch cray-cray!

Is there a bit of a spin being portrayed because the journals are being written from the perspective of the tower folk? I dunno, let's ask a non-Tower resident, like Hannah, or Charlie (bloke she framed for not watching the Tanker and then bled for the zeds to feed on). Dude, Scratch is very cruel and seems to take pleasure in hurting others. And though Osiris can argue otherwise as he is very welcome to do so (opinions rule!) I feel that Scratch has been responsible for a lot of the negative shit going on. Rather than abide by a Live and Let Live rule, she has proven to be the sort that adopts an I Live and You Give rule.

Sure, sure, at the moment she is being kind to Lizzy, but I think that serves Scratch more than it does Lizzy. She's doing it to fill that void in her life. She can have anything she wants and is ruthless in seeking it out. I don't know if the abortion she had at sixteen left her unable to have children again, but at current she is keeping Lizzy alive because she is pregnant. Scratch won't hurt the baby. Not sure if because hurting a baby is an evil she dare not commit or if it is because she wants to be a parent. I don't think she'd kill Lizzy after the baby is born...at least, not right away. But I do think that eventually she'd want to be that baby's parent. It's just not in the cards though.

Another thing Scratch wants but can't have is vengeance. I do believe she really did love her brother. I have no idea if she'll ever get a chance to shoot Pegs.

It's going to be crazy when Bricks has a rage-fit and chokes Lizzy to death. Then Scratch will fucking murder Bricks and the audience will temporarily love her again. ;P

I think the baby is Angels and that is why Scratch is keeping the baby and Lizzy alive..... they're apart of the family now.

[den1981]

If they had told CJ about Shauns death truthfully, I think they would have gotten the same result.

[Cabbage Patch]

If they had told CJ about Shauns death truthfully, I think they would have gotten the same result.

I agree! Why all the secrecy and lying?

[daredevil]

I agree! Why all the secrecy and lying?

But they didn't tell her the full truth... they said that he was killed by the Mallers, not the other guys.

[VEE]

There is certainly some merit in the suggestion that we are only getting one side of the story, and history is written by the victors. Sometimes the actions of the enemy are exaggerated to justify the actions taken against them, sometimes they are just made up entirely.

[yarri]

I agree! Why all the secrecy and lying?

Fear

[yarri]

I'm not disagreeing with you on that, or anything much really, just that, to my ears, the reaction to losing it was over the top and spoiled an otherwise excellent section, which also wasn't helped by Scratch's performance, only for that short minute or so though.

I'm happy to agree to disagree, we are all allowed our own opinions :D
Happy to do that as well

[mem]

Yeah I was liking Scratch last week.. lol.. she is back on the shiz list. :mad:

Last week she tugged at our heart strings and made us care. This week we want to tear her apart with out bare hands. Not to reignite a debate that went horribly sour but anyone that doesnt see the beauty in what JM's voice acting brings to the podcast doesnt deserve to listen to this great work of podcasty™ excellence! (podcasty is a trademark of mem enterprises llc and cannot be reused without express written permission)

[Ray]

Maybe in the non-combat arms MOS's (well non-Infantry really). But not anymore than the Marines that are non-infanty. And I'd hardly call it common... As a matter of fact the top marine marksman this year at the National Matches placed 5th place... behind 2 Army dudes an Army reservist and a civilian (prior Army)

And if memory serves he's a poor shot with a M-249 (and is a fictional character).

Uh, no. Every Marine, no matter what their MOS has to qualify with a rifle. Cook, airplane mechanic, machine gunner. Doesn't matter. The Army has lower standards, not opinion just fact. Marines have been known all throughout history as being infantrymen first, their MOS second. The Army has no such distinction. One year of rifle competition doesn't make a trend, and at that level half an inch can make the difference between winning and 10th place. Your example is pretty much invalid because it ignores almost 250 years of history. Saul is a poor shot all around, it's been stated multiple times that he isn't the best choice to have when something needs shot.

[Osiris]

Neither. I'm a Graphic Designer and a part-time actress. Though I guess the insane part could be debatable. My parents and close friends seem to like to call me crazy often enough :D

WRONG! You're clearly batshit cray.
































:love:

[Osiris]

Last week she tugged at our heart strings and made us care. This week we want to tear her apart with out bare hands. Not to reignite a debate that went horribly sour but anyone that doesnt see the beauty in what JM's voice acting brings to the podcast doesnt deserve to listen to this great work of podcasty™ excellence! (podcasty is a trademark of mem enterprises llc and cannot be reused without express written permission)

Negative. You owe me royalties for using podcasty in a post.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Arguing who is the better shot, Marines or Army, seems pointless. Is it something that can really be proven?

Besides, I think the topic at hand was, Saul being a piss poor shot, which Yes, Yes he is. My homeboy is a bad shot, unless he's aiming with Cupid's Arrow, booyah!

Kidding, he misses with that too. When it comes to ammo, quantity is Saul's best bet. Burt is a great shot, but that seems like the type of thing he focused on. Hell, he and his wife were pros. It's like my girlfriend and I playing video games. We do it all the time so we whup ass when we host a game night. I think Saul could improve with practice, but for some folk, you either got it or you don't.

[yarri]

Uh, no. Every Marine, no matter what their MOS has to qualify with a rifle. Cook, airplane mechanic, machine gunner. Doesn't matter. The Army has lower standards, not opinion just fact. Marines have been known all throughout history as being infantrymen first, their MOS second. The Army has no such distinction. One year of rifle competition doesn't make a trend, and at that level half an inch can make the difference between winning and 10th place. Your example is pretty much invalid because it ignores almost 250 years of history. Saul is a poor shot all around, it's been stated multiple times that he isn't the best choice to have when something needs shot.
If we are going to argue poor shots as the sole Navy vet on the forum I really think we can claim that title. The only reason I learned to shoot as well as I did was an extra zero on a supply order form and the mercy of one young marine.

[Osiris]

If we are going to argue poor shots as the sole Navy vet on the forum I really think we can claim that title. The only reason I learned to shoot as well as I did was an extra zero on a supply order form and the mercy of one young marine.

I heard you showed that young marine no mercy.

[yarri]

I heard you showed that young marine no mercy.

You are so weird. :)

[Osiris]

You are so weird. :)

Funny you should say that. I was thinking you're batshit crazy.

[yarri]

Funny you should say that. I was thinking you're batshit crazy.

Are you a doctor ?