Chapter 31 Family Ties Part 2

[Osiris]

Are you a doctor ?

Indeed. My opinion, based on being a doctor--which is what I am--is that you are, in fact, batshit crazy.

[MenashaCorpse]

[/COLOR]One thing that is a bit of a pet peeve of mine is when people slap labels on characters willy nilly. Like calling Scratch psychotic and psychopathic. The truth of the matter is, we really don't know. I wouldn't categorize her as psychotic because she doesn't fit the bill. She doesn't have false beliefs that are not based in reality nor is she hearing, seeing, or feeling things that are not there. She knows exactly what she's doing. She's just trying to figure out how to get to that point. And, well, she maybe psychopathic, but there's just as a high percentage if not higher that she isn't. Psychologists actually are arguing about psychopathy and what it is and what personality elements should be included in its definition. If the experts are having a hard time figuring it out, how are we supposed to know. The truth of the matter is we don't. She may have certain behavioral characteristics that fit in within the current psychopathic definition, but we still can't say that she's a psychopath because all we're given is the witness and stories told of her bad actions. We were lucky to get a bit of back story from Scratch (thank you Kc!!!) that wasn't inherently shown in a negative light. But I'm afraid those moments will be few and far between. But it is understandable why she's accused of it because psychopathy tends to be used as a label for people we do not like, cannot understand, or construe as evil. And I understand why people hate her. Heck, the only villain I loathe is Iago from Othello, and I wanted to take a knife and run him through. But I just can't see Scratch in that manner.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

I'd say closer to sociopath. My 2 cents. I hated Iago, too. Jafar should have killed him. Wait...

[Eviebae]

Scratch isn't psychotic or sociopathic/psychopathic. People throw those terms around when what they really want to say is they don't understand why someone would violate a social norm. It's a way of saying "We believe x, y and z; right guys?" and everyone can agree that that person isn't following the rules and so affirm what the rules are.

Scratch has survived under very different rules than you or I.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I don't know about terms or what actions and qualifications she has to meet to be called a sociopath or psychopath but all I know is that she is unstable. She kills for the slightest reason, and as Lizzy said, sometimes for no reason at all. She's crazy in my book.

[Osiris]

I don't know about terms or what actions and qualifications she has to meet to be called a sociopath or psychopath but all I know is that she is unstable. She kills for the slightest reason, and as Lizzy said, sometimes for no reason at all. She's crazy in my book.

I don't think you read the Evi's post very carefully.

[yarri]

Indeed. My opinion, based on being a doctor--which is what I am--is that you are, in fact, batshit crazy.

You must have gotten your doctorate at the university of bullshit with a masters in takes one to know one.

[Osiris]

You must have gotten your doctorate at the university of bullshit with a masters in takes one to know one.

Nope. Corn Flakes boxes. Just like Badger Meyer.

[yarri]

Nope. Corn Flakes boxes. Just like Badger Meyer.

I <3 you to bits

[Osiris]

I <3 you to bits

That's because I'm awesome. Everybody loves awesome.

[Lukas A.]

Still doesn't matter, it's an inanimate object, and not the only thing he has to remind him of her, he has actual memories. I do understand the connection, and I do think he would react, but it was too much for me and when I listened I thought scratch overplayed it, the bit that followed was very good though, it was just that short section that I didnt feel sat right. Of course, others will disagree, which is fine.

I see where your coming from, but, did u ever think that maybe he has a psychological problem, kinda like the movie castaway with Wilson the volleyball?
. Maybe he believes or somewhat believes that shirley(the desert eagle) is in fact shirley(his deceased wife)

[Osiris]

I see where your coming from, but, did u ever think that maybe he has a psychological problem, kinda like the movie castaway with Wilson the volleyball?
. Maybe he believes or somewhat believes that shirley(the desert eagle) is in fact shirley(his deceased wife)

I thought that was pretty obvious myself. Burt be batshit.

[MenashaCorpse]

Scratch isn't psychotic or sociopathic/psychopathic. People throw those terms around when what they really want to say is they don't understand why someone would violate a social norm. It's a way of saying "We believe x, y and z; right guys?" and everyone can agree that that person isn't following the rules and so affirm what the rules are.

Scratch has survived under very different rules than you or I.

A sociopath is someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder according to DSM IV. I believe Scratch qualifies for that based on her pre-zombie apocalypse history, not simply her current behavior/cruelty. Many criminals, particularly in organized crime, fit this description. Psychosis would disqualify her for Antisocial PD because by definition she would not be in touch with reality (or what the "rest of us" call reality) :)

[MenashaCorpse]

That's because I'm awesome. Everybody loves awesome.

Osiris = Sara Lee? My mind be blown. :hsugh:

[Osiris]

A sociopath is someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder according to DSM IV. I believe Scratch qualifies for that based on her pre-zombie apocalypse history, not simply her current behavior/cruelty. Many criminals, particularly in organized crime, fit this description. Psychosis would disqualify her for Antisocial PD because by definition she would not be in touch with reality (or what the "rest of us" call reality) :)

What history would that be? The one you've concocted in your head?

[Osiris]

Osiris = Sara Lee? My mind be blown. :hsugh:

:hsugh:

[Adventureless_Hero]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/adventureless_hero/Scratchdoesnotcare.jpg

[yarri]

Osiris = Sara Lee? My mind be blown. :hsugh:

He's like long beans and chicken feet "an acquired taste."

[Osiris]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/adventureless_hero/Scratchdoesnotcare.jpg

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6d0uvSIT01r6r7t1.gif

[forgottenone]

Funny you should say that. I was thinking you're batshit crazy.

Is it just me, but every time i read a post from Osiris, he comes across (tone) as if he's Burt. (Hope your finger is ok :) ).

[Osiris]

Is it just me, but every time i read a post from Osiris, he comes across (tone) as if he's Burt. (Hope your finger is ok :) ).

http://i.minus.com/ibv8tk6xVzgQty.gif

[forgottenone]

Uh oh, didn't mean to offend you..

[Adventureless_Hero]

Personally, I don't believe that we are witnessing any bias from the journals as written from the perspective of "the good guys." I think what we hear in terms of flashbacks and live action (whenever a character isn't narrative events as they specifically read them from a journal) is going deeper than what is written in the journal. In other words, the journal is a device that allows other characters to be witness to things they weren't there to experience first hand, but the moment the story cuts to those moments, we are hearing them as though WE are there first hand; a silent witness of sorts.

So although the writers of journals could put their bias into the journals, I do believe that we the audience are seeing things as they actually happened. So our opinions as to whether Scratch is evil, misunderstood, crazy, sane but cruel, or whatever are totally up to us. I doubt we are being affected by the feelings of the journal writers.

[Osiris]

Uh oh, didn't mean to offend you..

:love:

[Osiris]

Personally, I don't believe that we are witnessing any bias from the journals as written from the perspective of "the good guys." I think what we hear in terms of flashbacks and live action (whenever a character isn't narrative events as they specifically read them from a journal) is going deeper than what is written in the journal. In other words, the journal is a device that allows other characters to be witness to things they weren't there to experience first hand, but the moment the story cuts to those moments, we are hearing them as though WE are there first hand; a silent witness of sorts.

So although the writers of journals could put their bias into the journals, I do believe that we the audience are seeing things as they actually happened. So our opinions as to whether Scratch is evil, misunderstood, crazy, sane but cruel, or whatever are totally up to us. I doubt we are being affected by the feelings of the journal writers.

If you think about it, we're seeing the exact same thing here on the boards. Everyone puts their own spin on the story, even though we all have the same pieces of audio, the same words, the same sounds... we have take something different away from it. Why would the journals be an exception? Our own perspectives of the story are skewed and biased right out of the gate.

This is ground that keeps getting covered. I think we've managed to derail this shit pretty good.

[Adventureless_Hero]

So is Scratch's "family" mafia or gypsies?

[Free_Falling86]

WRONG! You're clearly batshit cray.

Clearly. You saw through my mask of sanity and saw who I really am. Curses. But you revealing me will not stop what I do everyday, and that's try to take over the world *cue maniacal laughter*

Wow, while I was away, there have been a lot of great points and counterpoints. I have said all I want to about Scratch, but I can see merit with what everyone says. All I know is that I like Scratch (okay, more I have a bit of a girl crush on Jenna and her voice which bleeds into her character. Doesn't hurt that she's an antagonist, and I almost always like them. Except Tardust. He can go away.), and I don't want her to die anytime soon. There's so much more I want to hear from her, and once she's gone, that'll make me one sad panda. But I know quite a lot of people don't feel the same way, so we'll see where Kc takes us (I'm up for the ride!)


So is Scratch's "family" mafia or gypsies?
Hmmm, that's an interesting question. I never thought about the Family being gypsies. They could be, but my gut is telling me that the more likely scenario is mafia. I've researched that Gypsy law directs Gypsies to lead their lives properly by attaining a state of purity and preventing contamination.....I think the mafia fits more accurately based off of what we've been given this far. But I could be way off base, and that would be interesting if the Family were gypsies instead.

[smalls kenobi]

"Noooooooo!! Burt!!!!!! Noooooooo!!!! Shirley?!?! Noooooooooo YOU MONSTER!!!"
-me while listening

Great episode! I want to murder Scratch! And Pete just 'cause:-P

[Osiris]

"Noooooooo!! Burt!!!!!! Noooooooo!!!! Shirley?!?! Noooooooooo YOU MONSTER!!!"
-me while listening

Great episode! I want to murder Scratch! And Pete just 'cause:-P

I can understand wanting to murder Pete.... but.... ..... god damnit. Shush, TacoTime.

[Witch_Doctor]

Just a thought. At the end of the episode, Briggs tells Burt that he'll bring the Doctor to look at his hand. (Burt, says that it doesn't matter, though.) So, the Doctor examines Burt. She's never seen him around before, they chat....
Does the Doctor inform Burt of Lizzy or does she inform Lizzy of Burt? Of course it will more than likely be an inadvertent comment that captures, either Burt's or Lizzy's attention. OR, KC could screw with us and neither Burt or Lizzy catches on to the clue that the other is there.

So, guys, tear into this thought. What, if anything, do you think will happen?

[Osiris]

Just a thought. At the end of the episode, Briggs tells Burt that he'll bring the Doctor to look at his hand. (Burt, says that it doesn't matter, though.) So, the Doctor examines Burt. She's never seen him around before, they chat....
Does the Doctor inform Burt of Lizzy or does she inform Lizzy of Burt? Of course it will more than likely be an inadvertent comment that captures, either Burt's or Lizzy's attention. OR, KC could screw with us and neither Burt or Lizzy catches on to the clue that the other is there.

So, guys, tear into this thought. What, if anything, do you think will happen?

I doubt they'd run the risk of saying anything to either of them. Too dangerous. Loose lips get cut off and sewn into ballcaps.

[daredevil]

Just a thought. At the end of the episode, Briggs tells Burt that he'll bring the Doctor to look at his hand. (Burt, says that it doesn't matter, though.) So, the Doctor examines Burt. She's never seen him around before, they chat....
Does the Doctor inform Burt of Lizzy or does she inform Lizzy of Burt? Of course it will more than likely be an inadvertent comment that captures, either Burt's or Lizzy's attention. OR, KC could screw with us and neither Burt or Lizzy catches on to the clue that the other is there.

So, guys, tear into this thought. What, if anything, do you think will happen?

I think they already know

[Osiris]

I think they already know

But if they knew, Scratch wouldn't hold all the cards. If they keep them separate she's got more options open.

[werewolf]

I think KC is going to keep us suspense for a bit. He probably go back to Fort Irwin. just to mess with us. lol.

[Vlarken]

I'm in agreement with werewolf. He's done that quite a bit this season... However, I don't know what plotline there is left to cover at Fort Irwin. So maybe we'll just keep going with Saul, Victor, and CJ as they sneak into The Colony. Hopefully they'll rescue both Lizzy and Burt.

[7oddisdead]

I think they already know

they don't...at least Lizzie doesn't.. Thats what (I think) bricks was keeping from her at the doctors visit.

And I'm all for more doctor Belmont!

[wh33t]

I finally re-listened to the episode. I had to build up some courage to be able to hear Scott Marvin crying like that again. I wanted to come back and share some more thoughts and I apologize if these have been shared already. I was trying to keep up with this thread but I missed one day and it went from like 12 pages to 29.

I have a strange feeling that CJ, Saul and Victor's trip will not be smooth sailing at all. I base this mostly upon KC's twisted and malevolent world he's created for us. What really are the chances of anything ever going to plan or working out smoothly. In fact, that would be a great new thread. The "Stuff that actually went down how it was supposed too or better" thread, the first thing I can think of right now is ... Saul and Angels first resource run where they discovered Burt.

I've also thought a bit more about how Angels dad could be the one who abused Scratch when she was younger and probably a lot kinder. I'm starting to rethink this now based upon the fact that Angel has such hostility towards Scratch. Angel was a pretty decent guy and if he knew the full story about what happened with his father and Scratch I would think he would have been more sympathetic to Scratch earlier on when they first meet at the Tower in Season 1. There is some dialogue that goes down between Scratch, Latch, Michael and Angel in the lobby of the Tower. I'm sure Angel would have recognized her pretty quick from the scars, and we're all pretty sure Scratch recognized him. So that's that bit I want to throw out there.

I still think we are going to learn that Ink is in the family in some way or another. I, for some reason think of Angel as being Italian. Do we know this somehow? Or is that just because I looked up the last name Tanudo and saw a bunch of Italian related material? If he's Italian, chances are all of the families are Italian. So now I'm thinking Italian mafia. I would think of Italian gangsters wearing "pimp pin stripe suits", but that's just me. Couple this up with Durai seeming to know what to expect and predict about the Zombies, and his adamant determination to destroy the Arena (after all, why would and/or how would an Ex-con be so motivated to thwart the Zombie uprising), you'd think being some kind of pimp gangster you would care more about yourself or just your crew, but doing something that risks your own well being and the well being of some of your best troops for everyones well being seems a bit altruistic. We also can't forget the direct hint that Scratch even mentions that Durai understands what's going on in regards to the creation of the little-ones... What do you think?

I've also gotta give more cred to KC for the incredible accuracy in the full title of this radio drama. "We're Alive, a Story of Survival". After what Lizzy has gone through, Riley, Pegs, Kelly, Saul, Burt etc... I just sometimes step back and go "wow, they all must really want to keep breathing because that would really suck and there is such little hope for anything".

[VEE]

I see where your coming from, but, did u ever think that maybe he has a psychological problem, kinda like the movie castaway with Wilson the volleyball?
. Maybe he believes or somewhat believes that shirley(the desert eagle) is in fact shirley(his deceased wife)

There is no evidence of that. So no, I don't consider it. I understand a deep emotional attachment to an inanimate object, I just think it was overplayed, and agree with an earlier post, that being shot with his own gun would have been a 'better' idea.

[wh33t]

There is no evidence of that. So no, I don't consider it. I understand a deep emotional attachment to an inanimate object, I just think it was overplayed, and agree with an earlier post, that being shot with his own gun would have been a 'better' idea.

Just curious what you would consider evidence.

[VEE]

Just curious what you would consider evidence.

All he does is call his gun the same name as that of his deceased wife, and gets upset when it is smashed. People have names for all sorts of things, from their cars to their genitals, and that is in no way evidence that they believe that these things are actually people. At no point during any of Burts dialogue have I thought it odd how he refers to or talks to, or about, his gun. Now if he was having long conversations with it, planning the future with it, making little clothes to go on it, asking its advice and generally being noticeably odd then that would be evidence of “Maybe he believes or somewhat believes that shirley(the desert eagle) is in fact shirley(his deceased wife)” but I don’t think that has happened, also, Burt has shown himself to be pretty solid and strong for the most part and being completely bonkers doesn’t seem to fit the character at all. He’s been a prisioner quite some time now, as others have pointed out, beaten, starved etc. and all without his gun, he may well have already resigned himself to the fact that he had lost it forever, perhaps the emotion portrayed was nothing to with the gun at all, just that he hadn’t had it for so long and, as Yarri was saying, didn’t have that reminder of his wife that he used to carry with him, until Scratch turns up, with this reminder of his wife, and smashes it to bits. All very sad, but isn’t evidence.

[wh33t]

All he does is call his gun the same name as that of his deceased wife, and gets upset when it is smashed. People have names for all sorts of things, from their cars to their genitals, and that is in no way evidence that they believe that these things are actually people. At no point during any of Burts dialogue have I thought it odd how he refers to or talks to, or about, his gun. Now if he was having long conversations with it, planning the future with it, making little clothes to go on it, asking its advice and generally being noticeably odd then that would be evidence of “Maybe he believes or somewhat believes that shirley(the desert eagle) is in fact shirley(his deceased wife)” but I don’t think that has happened, also, Burt has shown himself to be pretty solid and strong for the most part and being completely bonkers doesn’t seem to fit the character at all. He’s been a prisioner quite some time now, as others have pointed out, beaten, starved etc. and all without his gun, he may well have already resigned himself to the fact that he had lost it forever, perhaps the emotion portrayed was nothing to with the gun at all, just that he hadn’t had it for so long and, as Yarri was saying, didn’t have that reminder of his wife that he used to carry with him, until Scratch turns up, with this reminder of his wife, and smashes it to bits. All very sad, but isn’t evidence.

My mistake. I should have clarified. I wasn't asking for which you would consider evidence that Burt believes the gun actually is his wife. I was curious what you would consider evidence that he has a "psychological problem".

[VEE]

My mistake. I should have clarified. I wasn't asking for which you would consider evidence that Burt believes the gun actually is his wife. I was curious what you would consider evidence that he has a "psychological problem".

My original reply was to this: Maybe he believes or somewhat believes that shirley(the desert eagle) is in fact shirley(his deceased wife)

So I don't have a reply for you.

[daredevil]

But if they knew, Scratch wouldn't hold all the cards. If they keep them separate she's got more options open.

I'd think that even if they did know about each other they still wouldn't be able to speak to each other.

[yarri]

There is no evidence of that. So no, I don't consider it. I understand a deep emotional attachment to an inanimate object, I just think it was overplayed, and agree with an earlier post, that being shot with his own gun would have been a 'better' idea.

I disagree as a .50 caliber weapon ( shirley the desert eagle) makes a huge hole in a person and that would have been an automatic kill on Burt as you dont recover with your leg blown off in a situation such as this.I'll opt for what you call "overplayed" in the scene and call it a day.

[VEE]

I disagree as a .50 caliber weapon ( shirley the desert eagle) makes a huge hole in a person and that would have been an automatic kill on Burt as you dont recover with your leg blown off in a situation such as this.I'll opt for what you call "overplayed" in the scene and call it a day.

You guys know more about guns than I do so I will bow to your greater knowledge.

[yarri]

http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/593887/80600396.jpg

This is a representation of Shirley and her bullets

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/SRuhXt01whI/AAAAAAAAGKs/7f4lxalvPuo/s400/50_holes.jpg

This is a representation of what .50 cal ammo can do to the engine of a truck. The holes are rather BIG.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Knee.agr.jpg/250px-Knee.agr.jpg

This is a representation of Burt's knee


its a delicate piece of engineering and very hard to replace even in the best of times in the world. As an Orthopedic nurse. I'll tell you the replacements of knees are never as good as the original.

So as a public service announcement I'm saying .... "Lets not shoot Burt in any portion of his body... I like Burt."

[daredevil]

http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/593887/80600396.jpg

This is a representation of Shirley and her bullets

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/SRuhXt01whI/AAAAAAAAGKs/7f4lxalvPuo/s400/50_holes.jpg

This is a representation of what .50 cal ammo can do to the engine of a truck. The holes are rather BIG.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Knee.agr.jpg/250px-Knee.agr.jpg

This is a representation of Burt's knee


its a delicate piece of engineering and very hard to replace even in the best of times in the world. As an Orthopedic nurse. I'll tell you the replacements of knees are never as good as the original.

So as a public service announcement I'm saying .... "Lets not shoot Burt in any portion of his body... I like Burt."

... Scratch however...

[VEE]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Knee.agr.jpg/250px-Knee.agr.jpg



Why isn't Burt wearing any trousers? What are you doing to him?

[reaper239]

I'm in agreement with werewolf. He's done that quite a bit this season... However, I don't know what plotline there is left to cover at Fort Irwin. So maybe we'll just keep going with Saul, Victor, and CJ as they sneak into The Colony. Hopefully they'll rescue both Lizzy and Burt.

we've missed 6 months of goings on at irwin, there could be any number of developments at the base. plus the recon team that was sent into the city, we still don't know anything about what they were doing or why.

[Adventureless_Hero]

we've missed 6 months of goings on at irwin, there could be any number of developments at the base. plus the recon team that was sent into the city, we still don't know anything about what they were doing or why.

That and the possibility that the recon team actually did see Saul and Victor as they took off. They may have decided it was too hot to risk touching down again. Maybe?

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm thinking that the only way Burt will be help is through Bricks. He the only one that know both Liz and Burt are there. So that how Bricks will turn on to the Mallory. I see this happening, Saul is going to lose focus and go find Liz on his own and find Bricks, since he hold all the keys and probably be on guard duty. The worse situation is that he in the room with Liz and Saul take in the wrong way.

[forgottenone]

http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/593887/80600396.jpg

This is a representation of Shirley and her bullets


Ahh.. Personally, I think I'm in love with Shirley too :). What a fine piece of work she is. She is so strong, powerful, and beautiful. Id keep her by my side all the time too. I wonder where her name was engraved at. I imagine it had to be rather large and beautiful. How could Scratch have destroyed her. Oh, so sad.. I weep..nooooo..

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm thinking that the only way Burt will be help is through Bricks. He the only one that know both Liz and Burt are there. So that how Bricks will turn on to the Mallory. I see this happening, Saul is going to lose focus and go find Liz on his own and find Bricks, since he hold all the keys and probably be on guard duty. The worse situation is that he in the room with Liz and Saul take in the wrong way.

Mallony! ;)

I do think that there is potential for Saul to see Liz and Bricks together and make the wrong assumption. It could either end up with Saul broken hearted for a moment, or more drastically, he assumes Bricks is the one who raped Liz and shoots Bricks.
But that was an old theory I had. As the story has progressed, I'm starting to think there might be more in store for Bricks. He might actually assist Burt and Liz into escaping. He seems like the type that takes orders, and right now, Lizzy can't give orders since she is just a minority. But if Bricks saw Saul, Victor, Burt, and CJ united, he might think he has a chance to join a new team, a better one.

THEN there is also the little powder keg within; we have no idea why Bricks was in prison. He could be really messed up and have anger issues. We've heard tell of how he has dismembered zombies, snapped necks, and seen him lose his calm. There are so many possibilities right now!

[nikvoodoo]

How could Scratch have destroyed her. Oh, so sad.. I weep..nooooo..

Apparently quite easily.....with a hammer....

[wh33t]

My original reply was to this: Maybe he believes or somewhat believes that shirley(the desert eagle) is in fact shirley(his deceased wife)

So I don't have a reply for you.

Ahh OK. I was just curious. The way I see it is that its pretty obvious the character of Burt has some issues with letting go of his wife. The desert eagle is clearly a huge part of his character. So for me personally, that scene was perfect. Perfectly horrific but still perfect.

[wh33t]

Mallony! ;)

I do think that there is potential for Saul to see Liz and Bricks together and make the wrong assumption. It could either end up with Saul broken hearted for a moment, or more drastically, he assumes Bricks is the one who raped Liz and shoots Bricks.
But that was an old theory I had. As the story has progressed, I'm starting to think there might be more in store for Bricks. He might actually assist Burt and Liz into escaping. He seems like the type that takes orders, and right now, Lizzy can't give orders since she is just a minority. But if Bricks saw Saul, Victor, Burt, and CJ united, he might think he has a chance to join a new team, a better one.

THEN there is also the little powder keg within; we have no idea why Bricks was in prison. He could be really messed up and have anger issues. We've heard tell of how
he has dismembered zombies, snapped necks, and seen him lose his calm. There are so many possibilities right now!

He could also just be a a survivor that they boss around.

[UndeadSweeper]

Mallony! ;)

I do think that there is potential for Saul to see Liz and Bricks together and make the wrong assumption. It could either end up with Saul broken hearted for a moment, or more drastically, he assumes Bricks is the one who raped Liz and shoots Bricks.
But that was an old theory I had. As the story has progressed, I'm starting to think there might be more in store for Bricks. He might actually assist Burt and Liz into escaping. He seems like the type that takes orders, and right now, Lizzy can't give orders since she is just a minority. But if Bricks saw Saul, Victor, Burt, and CJ united, he might think he has a chance to join a new team, a better one.

THEN there is also the little powder keg within; we have no idea why Bricks was in prison. He could be really messed up and have anger issues. We've heard tell of how he has dismembered zombies, snapped necks, and seen him lose his calm. There are so many possibilities right now!

Or it could be like "Green Mile" :) Without the miracles of course

[UndeadSweeper]

Apparently quite easily.....with a hammer....

That cold, Nik!

A moment of silence for Shirley.... (pour out a can WD40)

[nikvoodoo]

He could also just be a a survivor that they boss around.

It seems like those who are survivors around them get used for labor or dangerous tasks. Prisoners are held in a higher regard in their social structure. If they had someone as strong as he is and they had no attachment to him as a fellow prisoner he'd be the best slave labor kidnapping could buy!

[Witch_Doctor]

Worser case scenarios:


Glenn lied and the sat phone is not in the Mallony.
Glenn didn't lie and CJ gets the phone while Saul rescues Lizzy. During the rescue, CJ leaves.
Ft Irwin troops return and only find Glenn and Pete. They rescue them but interupt Glenn after they ask if there are any other survivors.
CJ discovers the lie and does... I don't know, something screwed-up.

[UndeadSweeper]

It seems like those who are survivors around them get used for labor or dangerous tasks. Prisoners are held in a higher regard in their social structure. If they had someone as strong as he is and they had no attachment to him as a fellow prisoner he'd be the best slave labor kidnapping could buy!

Yea, he has a alot of power, in physical and social. He basically can talk directly to the heads, has the keys and can't be challenge by the other.

[nikvoodoo]

Worser case scenarios:


CJ discovers the lie and does... I don't know, something screwed-up.


I vote for CJ killing Lizzy in that scenario. If we're gonna make her go cray cray.....let's get serious!

[yarri]

I vote for CJ killing Lizzy in that scenario. If we're gonna make her go cray cray.....let's get serious!

I dont like your idea. I vote you get no vote.

[UndeadSweeper]

I vote for CJ killing Lizzy in that scenario. If we're gonna make her go cray cray.....let's get serious!

I vote CJ get revenge on gatekeeper and blow up a couple of Mallers.

[Leedo2502]

Arguing who is the better shot, Marines or Army, seems pointless. Is it something that can really be proven?

Besides, I think the topic at hand was, Saul being a piss poor shot, which Yes, Yes he is. My homeboy is a bad shot, unless he's aiming with Cupid's Arrow, booyah!

Kidding, he misses with that too. When it comes to ammo, quantity is Saul's best bet. Burt is a great shot, but that seems like the type of thing he focused on. Hell, he and his wife were pros. It's like my girlfriend and I playing video games. We do it all the time so we whup ass when we host a game night. I think Saul could improve with practice, but for some folk, you either got it or you don't.

My point wasn't to say that all Soldiers shoot better than all Marines. I think Ray has a bit of a chip on his shoulder with his comments that Marines as a whole shoot better and that "every Marine is an infantryman".
I'll agree that the Marines, as a whole, have a better focus on the fundimentals of marksmanship that the Army, again as a whole (at Infantry AIT there is alot more focus on marksmanship because... hey, that's our job). The problem is that non-combat arms Marines live under the fiction that they are firstly in the 'infantry'. It is true that for esprit de corps they have the motto "Every Marine a rifleman" it doesn't mean that they are all infantry. The guy that's flying the V-22 isn't going to show up in Camo Fallujah and get word "Hey bud you'll be walking patrols while you're here."

The long and short of it is there are Soldiers who are shitty at shooting just like there are Marines that are shitty at shooting, and there are Soldiers that are great at if same as there are Marines that are great at it.

Ray, take the chip off your shoulder

[Penguine]

If we are going to argue poor shots as the sole Navy vet on the forum I really think we can claim that title. The only reason I learned to shoot as well as I did was an extra zero on a supply order form and the mercy of one young marine.

Sorry this is a little late in the game but...

That's the beauty of the Navy though, you don't have to learn to shoot. You float around on ships miles out to see and use GPS to hit your targets with big guns, guided missles, and bombs dropped from planes, oh, and lets not forget cruise missles from who knows where under the sea. As an Air Force vet I think the USAF might be right there next to the USN in terms of shooting ability. LOL. We only had to qualify "if" we were deploying and then you only had to get like 35 out of 50 "in the black" which is 70%, not very good there.

As for the USA and USMC, I would bet if you put them all in a room and they had to debate the "who shoots better then who" BS in the end they would just be happy to know that when the shit hits the fan they can all count on each other to watch each others back.

[Leedo2502]

If we are going to argue poor shots as the sole Navy vet on the forum I really think we can claim that title. The only reason I learned to shoot as well as I did was an extra zero on a supply order form and the mercy of one young marine.

Yarri what I want to know is who approved the blue cammo for the Navy?? I think that it is a toss up between the Navy and Army as to who has the worst uniform, the ACU's don't blend in with anything and the Navy blue cammo blends in to well with the water... which sucks if you go into the drink!

[nikvoodoo]

I vote CJ get revenge on gatekeeper and blow up a couple of Mallers.

If she finds out that her boyfriend was killed by the people she didn't think killed them.....I think that puts Lizzy firmly in the crosshairs of Cray Cray CJ.

Remember, she thinks the Mallers killed Sean. Not Gatekeeper. She's not going to like that she was lied to in order to come on this foolish mission.

[UndeadSweeper]

If she finds out that her boyfriend was killed by the people she didn't think killed them.....I think that puts Lizzy firmly in the crosshairs of Cray Cray CJ.

Remember, she thinks the Mallers killed Sean. Not Gatekeeper. She's not going to like that she was lied to in order to come on this foolish mission.

Hmm.. I thought I heard that Sean was at the Colony but not the part about the Maller doing it. Since it came from Vick I thought he mention that it was the group before the Maller. The reason I mention the Maller is that she can still be the prison guard or cop we thought she was.

[Leedo2502]

As for the USA and USMC, I would bet if you put them all in a room and they had to debate the "who shoots better then who" BS in the end they would just be happy to know that when the shit hits the fan they can all count on each other to watch each others back.

I couldn't agree more, I was kinda likeing Ray until he went off on how the Marines are that much better than the Army (mostly based off of a fictional character.) You usually hear that in the old timers in the Marines and not so much since 9/11 and we all got on one team (I'll grant you there are still the jokes and rivalries but they have dropped dramaticaly since Afghanistan and Iraq.) Even before that there was a great deal of respect from Army Infantry for Marine Infantry and vice versa, we both realize that we both have different jobs with different strengths and weaknesses. The problem was (and I guess still is) with the non-combat arms guys...

[Adventureless_Hero]

Hmm.. I thought I heard that Sean was at the Colony but not the part about the Maller doing it. Since it came from Vick I thought he mention that it was the group before the Maller. The reason I mention the Maller is that she can still be the prison guard or cop we thought she was.

Nah, CJ doesn't know that it was Gatekeeper who plotted to kill Sean. As far as CJ knows, the Mallers were the one's who offed her ex-boyfriend. So to get revenge on Gatekeeper someone would have to spill the beans (Victor), and we Hispanic folk never spill our beans. That shit doesn't go to waste! lol

I think that was what Nik was saying too. That if CJ found out that she was lied to about the Mallers being responsible for Seans death, she might flip out and do some cray-cray shit, like ventilate Lizzy's skull, OR, oh shit and this might actually happen, reveal Saul to the Mallers so that she herself can escape from the Mallony! Damn, I can totally see CJ using Saul and Lizzy as a diversion so that she can snatch up the SAT phone and leave the star-crossed lovers in the Mallony!

[Penguine]

Technically Vick didn't lie when he said the mallers killed Sean. Think about it... Gatekeeper had Sean killed, but as soon as the Mallers took over the colony that made all the former colony members Mallers. So in a twisted sense of needing to egg CJ on Vick said the mallers killed Sean. Not a total lie..

[reaper239]

I couldn't agree more, I was kinda likeing Ray until he went off on how the Marines are that much better than the Army (mostly based off of a fictional character.) You usually hear that in the old timers in the Marines and not so much since 9/11 and we all got on one team (I'll grant you there are still the jokes and rivalries but they have dropped dramaticaly since Afghanistan and Iraq.) Even before that there was a great deal of respect from Army Infantry for Marine Infantry and vice versa, we both realize that we both have different jobs with different strengths and weaknesses. The problem was (and I guess still is) with the non-combat arms guys...

the army has 1.14 million personnell (not counting the civilian corps) and the marines have 280,000. the marines are a small elite corps, but the army has about as many infantry as there are marines. the combat arms of the army are as skilled marksmen as the marines. marines are intended for small scale operations, the army is intended for large scale sustained operations. it's really like compareing apples and oranges, they have different purposes.

[UndeadSweeper]

Nah, CJ doesn't know that it was Gatekeeper who plotted to kill Sean. As far as CJ knows, the Mallers were the one's who offed her ex-boyfriend. So to get revenge on Gatekeeper someone would have to spill the beans (Victor), and we Hispanic folk never spill our beans. That shit doesn't go to waste! lol

I think that was what Nik was saying too. That if CJ found out that she was lied to about the Mallers being responsible for Seans death, she might flip out and do some cray-cray shit, like ventilate Lizzy's skull, OR, oh shit and this might actually happen, reveal Saul to the Mallers so that she herself can escape from the Mallony! Damn, I can totally see CJ using Saul and Lizzy as a diversion so that she can snatch up the SAT phone and leave the star-crossed lovers in the Mallony!

So pull a Nick Fury and walk out with the SAT Phone when no one looking. Maybe I need to re-listen but afraid to heard Burt again :(

And Yes, we loved beans. Adventureless_Hero pass the arroz.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Technically Vick didn't lie when he said the mallers killed Sean. Think about it... Gatekeeper had Sean killed, but as soon as the Mallers took over the colony that made all the former colony members Mallers. So in a twisted sense of needing to egg CJ on Vick said the mallers killed Sean. Not a total lie..

Ehhh maaaaaybe. I don't disagree and I can see what you are saying, but from CJ's point of view, I can imagine she wouldn't be as quick to agree. She'd probably get a twitch in her eye and say, "What?! You lied to me so that we could save your blonde fuck-buddy?! Grrrrrrrr!!!!" *crack* (mind snapping)

[Penguine]

Not that any of the USA vs USMC crap even matters. When it comes down to it the entirety of the US Military, except for the special forces of each branch, all practice the same principle when it comes to combat... Accuracy by volume. i.e.. we will put more lead downrange then you, so we dont need to shoot all that well. Dont believe me? Watch any youtube video, combat video, etc, and tell me how many Soldiers/Sailors/Marines/Airman are pulling off single shots and how many flip that selector to F/A and let it rip.

[nikvoodoo]

Technically Vick didn't lie when he said the mallers killed Sean. Think about it... Gatekeeper had Sean killed, but as soon as the Mallers took over the colony that made all the former colony members Mallers. So in a twisted sense of needing to egg CJ on Vick said the mallers killed Sean. Not a total lie..

Lies of omission are still lies, and they are some of the most harmful ones.

[Orinks]

Somehow I doubt we'll be going back to Erwin because of the chapter title. Family Ties. I think this next chapter part is all about the rescue and either who gets out alive, someone will die or Saul, CJ and Victor won't get in. Burt is the closest to dying at this point. As soon as Scratch figures out someone is sneaking in and if she figures out who, she'll probably use Burt as a bargaining chip to get what she wants, like she always has. Burt dying in front of Saul would probably enrage him more to do something stupid. Lizzy more so. First Scratch will use lizzy and then if saul doesn't talk, she'd most likely kill Burt. I think the idea that protecting Lizzy because Scratch wants a family is complete horse shit and it's just another tactic to get Lizzy on her side for her own ends.
Sure, maybe Scratch wants a family and all, but I'm sure she doesn't want a thing to do with one of her enemies and a friend of her brother's killer who she wants to avenge. I mean, we can't forget that Scratch lying to Angel's face about state of the art equipment to fix him isn't the same thing. I'm sad that she was raped as a teen, but I know that if Scratch got news that Pegs was dead, she'd probably release both of them and or stop being a villain. Dunno though. Seems unlikely.
This post was originally to say that I don't think we're going back to Erwin but turned into a rant about the current happenings. This is my first post so I guess it was bound to have a jumble of thoughts in it.


That and the possibility that the recon team actually did see Saul and Victor as they took off. They may have decided it was too hot to risk touching down again. Maybe?

[Leedo2502]

it's really like compareing apples and oranges, they have different purposes.

That's kinda my point...

[UndeadSweeper]

Ehhh maaaaaybe. I don't disagree and I can see what you are saying, but from CJ's point of view, I can imagine she wouldn't be as quick to agree. She'd probably get a twitch in her eye and say, "What?! You lied to me so that we could save your blonde fuck-buddy?! Grrrrrrrr!!!!" *crack* (mind snapping)

I don't see CJ as one who would be quick to angry. I believe she know that they hold something back as she does to them.

[Leedo2502]

Not that any of the USA vs USMC crap even matters. When it comes down to it the entirety of the US Military, except for the special forces of each branch, all practice the same principle when it comes to combat... Accuracy by volume. i.e.. we will put more lead downrange then you, so we dont need to shoot all that well. Dont believe me? Watch any youtube video, combat video, etc, and tell me how many Soldiers/Sailors/Marines/Airman are pulling off single shots and how many flip that selector to F/A and let it rip.

Not trying to sound like a dick but the way we operate is fire superiority by accurate fires. There are two types of fire superiority in combat operations, through accurate fires and massed fires. The way that the US does it is by accurate fires. That's why we use the 5.56 round and the M-4 or M-16 that only have the single or 3 round burst. What you see and hear on the news are the M-249's and 240's laying down suppresive fires. I've been in a few fire fights in Iraq and never once had my M-4 on anything but single shot, anything else is just wasteful.

Ironically the M-4 that the SF guys carry has the full auto setting since theynormally go light on the MG's

[Adventureless_Hero]

Somehow I doubt we'll be going back to Erwin because of the chapter title. Family Ties. I think this next chapter part is all about the rescue and either who gets out alive, someone will die or Saul, CJ and Victor won't get in. Burt is the closest to dying at this point. As soon as Scratch figures out someone is sneaking in and if she figures out who, she'll probably use Burt as a bargaining chip to get what she wants, like she always has. Burt dying in front of Saul would probably enrage him more to do something stupid. Lizzy more so. First Scratch will use lizzy and then if saul doesn't talk, she'd most likely kill Burt. I think the idea that protecting Lizzy because Scratch wants a family is complete horse shit and it's just another tactic to get Lizzy on her side for her own ends.
Sure, maybe Scratch wants a family and all, but I'm sure she doesn't want a thing to do with one of her enemies and a friend of her brother's killer who she wants to avenge. I mean, we can't forget that Scratch lying to Angel's face about state of the art equipment to fix him isn't the same thing. I'm sad that she was raped as a teen, but I know that if Scratch got news that Pegs was dead, she'd probably release both of them and or stop being a villain. Dunno though. Seems unlikely.
This post was originally to say that I don't think we're going back to Erwin but turned into a rant about the current happenings. This is my first post so I guess it was bound to have a jumble of thoughts in it.

This made me think about the chapter title. Family Ties. Was Burt's connection to his wife just broken? I don't know if marital status can be considered a family tie. Could it refer to the family unit of Lizzy, Saul, Burt, Michael and the rest?

Saul and Lizzy may have to cope with losing a family member...Papa bear Burt. :'(

[VEE]

Pfft :P

2026

[Merlin1274]

Theres alot here to read. got to page 16..

I felt after the Episode that Bricks would assist in the escape of Burt and Lizzy.. Bricks would sacrifice himself to get them out. Burt being a shooter will compensate for the loss of the finger. But I am not sure if he will over come the loss of Shirley..
They will not need the sat Phone if Saul, Victor, CJ meet Burt and Lizzy on the way there. I think they will decide to head to Irwin.. Burt has a sat phone back in his old shop that probably works considering he was prior military and he has stuff in his shop he was not supposed to have.. But that is just my opinion on how it would take place. At least how I would want to it work out..

[UndeadSweeper]

Theres alot here to read. got to page 16..

I felt after the Episode that Bricks would assist in the escape of Burt and Lizzy.. Bricks would sacrifice himself to get them out. Burt being a shooter will compensate for the loss of the finger. But I am not sure if he will over come the loss of Shirley..
They will not need the sat Phone if Saul, Victor, CJ meet Burt and Lizzy on the way there. I think they will decide to head to Irwin.. Burt has a sat phone back in his old shop that probably works considering he was prior military and he has stuff in his shop he was not supposed to have.. But that is just my opinion on how it would take place. At least how I would want to it work out..

Wait, that could be it. Burt's old shop! They only able to do the rescue and Burt mention he has one of them. Or maybe they could visit Skittles and pick one from there too?

[Witch_Doctor]

Ehhh maaaaaybe. I don't disagree and I can see what you are saying, but from CJ's point of view, I can imagine she wouldn't be as quick to agree. She'd probably get a twitch in her eye and say, "What?! You lied to me so that we could save your blonde fuck-buddy?! Grrrrrrrr!!!!" *crack* (mind snapping)

Yep, this could push her over the edge. CJ just might be the first one to turn into a zombie without ever being exposed to anything. She already hates the Mallers anyway. She's gonna hate Saul and Victor even more. She never liked Lizzy, and hasn't even met her. Sean's killers are probably nowhere to be found. She could snap with no single person(s) towards whom she could direct her loose cannon.

A more ridiculous thought would be CJ and Scratch teaming together on some sort of Faster Pussycat, Kill Kill post-zombie-apocalypse venteda-spree. I can see them now, driving through the wasteland in a pink, Hello Kitty, S.W.A.T. van with PUSSY WAGON painted on the side, picking up stray cats from L.A. to Ft Irwin.

[Witch_Doctor]

Theres alot here to read. got to page 16..
They will not need the sat Phone if Saul, Victor, CJ meet Burt and Lizzy on the way there. I think they will decide to head to Irwin.. Burt has a sat phone back in his old shop that probably works considering he was prior military and he has stuff in his shop he was not supposed to have.. But that is just my opinion on how it would take place. At least how I would want to it work out..

Brilliant thought! Burt stocked up on Y2K survival gear to sell.

[Ray]

I think Ray has a bit of a chip on his shoulder with his comments that Marines as a whole shoot better and that "every Marine is an infantryman".

No, not literally. However, when being promoted and in an annual test the vast majority of the questions are infantry related. I had to know every single bit of information that any rifleman knew, as well as what was part of my MOS as a 6287. I worked on F-18 ejections seats in the Marines, yet I had to know information like how to load/disassemble/carry/team fire/service and M2 .50, demonstrate the proper way to acquire 4 and 6 digit locations on a map, and so on. I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. I don't mean it as a dick measuring contest, but you are in fact wrong. Every Marine is required to meet minimum standards in marksmanship, are tested and required to qualify annually, and it has been that way for a very long time. History is not on your side.


The problem is that non-combat arms Marines live under the fiction that they are firstly in the 'infantry'. It is true that for esprit de corps they have the motto "Every Marine a rifleman" it doesn't mean that they are all infantry. The guy that's flying the V-22 isn't going to show up in Camo Fallujah and get word "Hey bud you'll be walking patrols while you're here."

First statement is not true. Marines know damn well that they aren't all professional infantryman, and what who does tell you that is an explicit liar. We all are required to maintain knowledge of what an infantryman needs to know, and we are required to keep our marksmanship up to standard every year. I think it's funny that you say the V-22 pilot isn't going to show up in camo in Fallujah. You obviosuly know nothing about Marines if you think that is true. V-22 pilots, and other fixed wing pilots do exactly what you say they don't. Two of our Captains were company commanders and FACs in Fallujah both times it was assaulted. ALL officers in the Marines are trained as platoon commanders, and are required to lead from the front in OCS in an infantry capacity. They don't even get trained on what they are going to do until after OCS, so they are all basically trained as infantry officers. Enlisted Marines are all trained that way as well, not as company commanders/platoon commanders, but they are basic infantrymen as well.


The long and short of it is there are Soldiers who are shitty at shooting just like there are Marines that are shitty at shooting, and there are Soldiers that are great at if same as there are Marines that are great at it.

I don't deny that some are better shots than others. What I am saying is that it's not too far a stretch that he's a poor shot, because marksmanship isn't that important to the Army. Marines are far superior to soldiers in marksmanship, they have been for almost 250 years and will continue to be if the Army doesn't put more emphasis on it. I have no reason to believe they will because they've never had any real interest in marksmanship as a unit.


Ray, take the chip off your shoulder

I have no chip, I merely stated facts. It's you that seems to take offense where there was absolutely none meant. I suggest you learn more about the Marines though, the majority of your information is explicitly false. I won't deny that Marines have pride that clouds their judgement on how we are, but there's reason for it. We are simply that good.

[Ray]

Brilliant thought! Burt stocked up on Y2K survival gear to sell.

Didn't they go back and clean out what they could get their hands on while Mike and the others were at the Colony? I'll have to take a listen again, but I'm pretty sure they have cleaned his shop out already, and what they found it buried in the ruins of the Tower now.

[Witch_Doctor]

Didn't they go back and clean out what they could get their hands on while Mike and the others were at the Colony? I'll have to take a listen again, but I'm pretty sure they have cleaned his shop out already, and what they found it buried in the ruins of the Tower now.

I think you're right about this too. Everything or weapons only?

[nikvoodoo]

Didn't they go back and clean out what they could get their hands on while Mike and the others were at the Colony? I'll have to take a listen again, but I'm pretty sure they have cleaned his shop out already, and what they found it buried in the ruins of the Tower now.


I think you're right about this too. Everything or weapons only?


You are correct regarding weapons definitely. One would assume a sat phone might be on a list of toys to bring just in case, but then again you might also believe it's worthless and leave it behind.

I always believed the implication was they took everything of worth. Sort of like the uneventful mission to get the water truck, I think we've heard all there is to hear about Locked and Loaded.

[Adventureless_Hero]

The SAT phone is going to be a moot point when Saul finally is about to escape the Mallony with Lizzy and Burt when they suddenly hear jet in the distance. They are happy for a brief moment but it quickly turns to complete horror as the recognize it is dropping a payload of napalm. End of line.

[Fordraceboy]

^^^^ Everything. Remeber the NVG's that were in the gear stowed in the chopper for Irwin? The used them on guard while Datu repaire the helo.

[Adventureless_Hero]

^^^^ Everything. Remeber the NVG's that were in the gear stowed in the chopper for Irwin? The used them on guard while Datu repaire the helo.

The chopper is at Ft. Irwin. It'll do Saul, Victor and Burt very little good.

[UndeadSweeper]

You are correct regarding weapons definitely. One would assume a sat phone might be on a list of toys to bring just in case, but then again you might also believe it's worthless and leave it behind.

I always believed the implication was they took everything of worth. Sort of like the uneventful mission to get the water truck, I think we've heard all there is to hear about Locked and Loaded.

How about the base where Skittles is?

[nikvoodoo]

How about the base where Skittles is?

CJ wiped out all the guns so there's nothing left there in that regard.

And for some reason, I'd just like to think that due to government bureaucracy the Reserve Base and Ft. Irwin would have two different non compatible sat phones. That being said, I bet Saul would think to look there if they had them there. While he wants Lizzy back badly, I bet he'd love to have the tactical support of the military behind him.

[Dyhoerium]

The chopper is at Ft. Irwin. It'll do Saul, Victor and Burt very little good.

I think Fordraceboy was stating they took everything out of Locked and Loaded, using the fact that they had Burt's NVGs. I'm with Nik - I think we've seen the last of Burt's gun shop.

[UndeadSweeper]

I think Fordraceboy was stating they took everything out of Locked and Loaded, using the fact that they had Burt's NVGs. I'm with Nik - I think we've seen the last of Burt's gun shop.

About a false floor board in Locked and Loaded that contain a secret gun, Shirley II ;-)

[Eviebae]

Kay, so I was wondering about the Family being Gypsies too. Veeeeery sexist society. Very insular too. A female supposedly "contaminates" water by walking over it. For instance, I saw a photo of two boys walking with a toddler girl and lifting a hose over her head so she wouldn't walk over it and contaminate it. They came out of around Egypt or India supposedly (I forget--they analyzed their language).

I wonder if there will be a sort of reverse Stockholm Syndrome going to happen with Scratch and Burt.

[yarri]

Kay, so I was wondering about the Family being Gypsies too. Veeeeery sexist society. Very insular too. A female supposedly "contaminates" water by walking over it. For instance, I saw a photo of two boys walking with a toddler girl and lifting a hose over her head so she wouldn't walk over it and contaminate it. They came out of around Egypt or India supposedly (I forget--they analyzed their language).

I wonder if there will be a sort of reverse Stockholm Syndrome going to happen with Scratch and Burt.

Eviebae, explain reverse Stockholm Syndrome I can't wrap my brain around it. Please!

[Leedo2502]

I have no chip, I merely stated facts. It's you that seems to take offense where there was absolutely none meant. I suggest you learn more about the Marines though, the majority of your information is explicitly false. I won't deny that Marines have pride that clouds their judgement on how we are, but there's reason for it. We are simply that good.

I guess you're right Ray, I must have been dreaming when I was teaching land-nav, Mk-19 and the M-240 (while other NCO's tought other classes) to the fobbits that were on their way to Afghanistan, because obviously the Army doesn't do that...

And you said earlier on the all Marines are Infantry first and their MOS second.

Ray I know plenty about the Marines, I've worked with them and know a lot of them that are now in the Army (Infantry). Out of respect for the nearly all the other Marines that don't walk around with their heads up their asses I'm just cutting this conversation now.

[Condor]

Saw this video today and it reminded me of Burt, notice the hunting accident at 1:07. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef201LbbAPE
We can rebuild him... Purvis's Glen's got tools. OK the song's not that great, but the video is cool. If anyone does like the song, you can register at http://www.jackandzac.com/ for a free, legal download.

Also, have to share this with everyone:

Yesterday I was doing some demo work on my old house when I grabbed a board and an unseen nail stuck my finger. "Ouch" I screamed like a girl. Then I had a thought, "Don't be a pussy, Burt just had his finger chopped off and you're whining like a baby about a nail poke that didn't even break the skin."

Other thoughts while working:

Could Ink/pinstripe zombie be the one who raped Scratch?

I'd hate to see Burt die, but I can (sadly) see the story play out as Burt sacrificing himself to help Lizzy escape. When the baby is born later, Saul and Lizzy try to decide on a name. Lizzy suggests "Burt" in his honor and Saul says "Yeah, he'd like that."



Don't forget Kalani's conversation with Sean as the Other Tower was being over run (Chapter 27, Part 3):

Kalani: "Where are the guns?"
Sean: "They're locked up".
Kalani: "Where?"
Sean: "On the other side of where we are".

The issue wasn't a lack of guns, or inadequate time to get them. It's that the residents weren't trusted to keep their weapons with them, so they were all sitting, useless, in an arms room.That's it, I was trying to remember that conversation


http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/593887/80600396.jpg

This is a representation of Shirley and her bulletsActually, if you look close, that's a .44 Desert Eagle (see the number below and near the end of the barrel). A .50AE is a slightly larger round.




How could Scratch have destroyed her. Oh, so sad.. I weep..nooooo..
Apparently quite easily.....with a hammer....I'm gonna call a bit of dramatic license with the beating death of Shirley. I've never fired a .50 Desert Eagle, but have held one and that is one big hunk of metal that would take one hell of a beating to destroy.



About a false floor board in Locked and Loaded that contain a secret gun, Shirley II ;-)Possibly, every true gun nut would have a few goodies stashed in secret hidey holes. Not that I'd know. :rolleyes:

[yarri]

Actually, if you look close, that's a .44 Desert Eagle (see the number below and near the end of the barrel). A .50AE is a slightly larger round.



notice the word representation... not the word actual. I found what I could find and a .44 makes a fucking huge hole as well. Moot point. Being shot with a .44 will blow a man's knee off rendering him dead without skilled medical assistance via an operating theater.

[yarri]

My two cents on the whole "Who/what branch/solders vs marine vs God shoots better"
Its becoming bullshit people seriously the entire point of shooting a human being in combat is to kill them. In practice I'm not the strongest of marksmen but by god I can land bullets in center mass. Does it seriously matter if the bullet is dead center or just on the target? No the target will still die be it instantly or in a second and a half later. Its insulting to listen to my fellow brothers in arms talk to each other the way you all have been. So knock it off. You are all member of the same thing the United States Military....

[Osiris]

Remember that time when it wasn't me who derailed the thread? :hsugh:

[yarri]

Remember that time when it wasn't me who derailed the thread? :hsugh:


You are a bad influence on me.

[Leedo2502]

remember that time when it wasn't me who derailed the thread? :hsugh:

lmao!!!

[Osiris]

lmao!!!

Come at me, bro.

[Osiris]

You are a bad influence on me.

True story.

[Condor]

notice the word representation... not the word actual. I found what I could find and a .44 makes a fucking huge hole as well. Moot point. Being shot with a .44 will blow a man's knee off rendering him dead without skilled medical assistance via an operating theater.
Just a gun nut being picky. Agreed, both will put a big ass hole in someone.

My personal opinion, the Desert Eagle is a cool looking gun, but in a SHTF situation something lighter weight, less recoil and holding more rounds is a more practical choice.

[yarri]

Just a gun nut being picky. Agreed, both will put a big ass hole in someone.

My personal opinion, the Desert Eagle is a cool looking gun, but in a SHTF situation something lighter weight, less recoil and holding more rounds is a more practical choice.

Its also really not a great gun for reliability I've been reading.

[Leedo2502]

Its also really not a great gun for reliability I've been reading.

Unless a Marine is shooting it........

:cool:

[Osiris]

Just a gun nut being picky. Agreed, both will put a big ass hole in someone.

My personal opinion, the Desert Eagle is a cool looking gun, but in a SHTF situation something lighter weight, less recoil and holding more rounds is a more practical choice.

Holy shit where'd you come from!? You weren't in chat!

[yarri]

Unless a Marine is shooting it........

:cool:

You are very naughty and if I could catch you I'd swat you LOL

[VEE]

What is the record number of posts for a chapter as this one is getting BIG!

[daredevil]

What is the record number of posts for a chapter as this one is getting BIG!

I think it's 60 pages... don't quote me though.

[VEE]

I think it's 60 pages... don't quote me though.

Damn, I quoted you, sorry.

[daredevil]

Damn, I quoted you, sorry.

I'll forgive you.... this time...

[VEE]

I'll forgive you.... this time...

Thanks

Damn, I did it again.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I don't know. I don't buy CJ's reason for wanting to go to the Mallony. I feel like revenge just isn't something she would concern herself with. Ah, crap, then again she was looking to get revenge on Pinstripes for annihilating her tower residents.

I just don't trust her motive. The SAT phone should have been reason enough, but it wasn't. Was Sean that big a deal in her life? I dunno, I'm not trusting her until operation Infiltrate Mallony is over and done with.

[daredevil]

I don't know. I don't buy CJ's reason for wanting to go to the Mallony. I feel like revenge just isn't something she would concern herself with. Ah, crap, then again she was looking to get revenge on Pinstripes for annihilating her tower residents.

I just don't trust her motive. The SAT phone should have been reason enough, but it wasn't. Was Sean that big a deal in her life? I dunno, I'm not trusting her until operation Infiltrate Mallony is over and done with.

To a incredibly closed off person, letting a person into their life and opening up to him would be a huge and rare connection that would be as as powerful as what you normal people call Love. Unless she was using him, losing him affected her. Getting a second chance and then having it ripped away would have been terrible for her (What you normal people call Heart Break... but worse). So yes, I believe Sean was a rather big deal in her life.... unless she was just using him.

[daredevil]

Thanks

Damn, I did it again.

Well, that's one cross against your life

[UndeadSweeper]

I don't know. I don't buy CJ's reason for wanting to go to the Mallony. I feel like revenge just isn't something she would concern herself with. Ah, crap, then again she was looking to get revenge on Pinstripes for annihilating her tower residents.

I just don't trust her motive. The SAT phone should have been reason enough, but it wasn't. Was Sean that big a deal in her life? I dunno, I'm not trusting her until operation Infiltrate Mallony is over and done with.

The last time, CJ stood by while all her plans killed everyone else in the other tower. This time even if against her wish, she will help and keep these people alive.

[Hellbringer]

Technically Vick didn't lie when he said the mallers killed Sean. Think about it... Gatekeeper had Sean killed, but as soon as the Mallers took over the colony that made all the former colony members Mallers. So in a twisted sense of needing to egg CJ on Vick said the mallers killed Sean. Not a total lie..

Alright Obi-Wan Kenobi. Just don't tell Luke anymore versions of how his father died.

[Hellbringer]

Lies of omission are still lies, and they are some of the most harmful ones.

Return of the Jedi... did Yoda teach that one?

[nikvoodoo]

Return of the Jedi... did Yoda teach that one?
Nope. Life, experience, a stuff you should know podcast and many episodes of law and order did.

[Penguine]

What if CJ is twisted and plans to cap Lizzy and blame it on the Mallers? Then Saul would be all pissed off and go on a rampage, then CJ and Saul can make babies.

[HorrorHiro]

Did anybody else catch that lie that Saul told CJ? When they were talking about Shaun Saul said "the prisoners" killed Shaun, and Victor went along with it.

Now, as we all (should) know the Mallers didn't kill him; they weren't at the Colony when he was killed. I feel like this little lie to get CJ to go along with the plan to go to the Colony is going to play a role in the very near future.

[Adventureless_Hero]

What if CJ is twisted and plans to cap Lizzy and blame it on the Mallers? Then Saul would be all pissed off and go on a rampage, then CJ and Saul can make babies.

I totally like that idea but I don't think it will go down. At best, we'll probably just see scornful looks from CJ. She'll probably get all catty and then give up on trying to hook up with Saul. If anything she'll start knocking boots with some one else. Possibly Victor? For a while, I felt like Kelly was in the same boat. She probably wanted Michael but once she saw that Michael was Pegs and Pegs man alone, then Kelly started advertising her willingness to get laid. Instead of CJ shooting Lizzy, I actually think she might use Saul and Lizzy trying to escape as a diversion. She might do something to alert the Mallers to Saul's presence then CJ can escape while they are distracted with Saul.


Did anybody else catch that lie that Saul told CJ? When they were talking about Shaun Saul said "the prisoners" killed Shaun, and Victor went along with it.

Now, as we all (should) know the Mallers didn't kill him; they weren't at the Colony when he was killed. I feel like this little lie to get CJ to go along with the plan to go to the Colony is going to play a role in the very near future.

Some of us, me included, were discussing that. In the actual episode either Saul or Victor, I forget who mention to Pete and Glen not to spill the beans on that lie. They don't want CJ finding out that Sean died before the Mallers arrived.

[UndeadSweeper]

Did anybody else catch that lie that Saul told CJ? When they were talking about Shaun Saul said "the prisoners" killed Shaun, and Victor went along with it.

Now, as we all (should) know the Mallers didn't kill him; they weren't at the Colony when he was killed. I feel like this little lie to get CJ to go along with the plan to go to the Colony is going to play a role in the very near future.

Wait, is the "prisoners" the slaves that would include some of the members of Colony or the prisoner ruling the Colony?

[Eviebae]

So, who wants to take bets that CJ will end up with Riley? Sean and CJ were close, but who knows if they were knocking boots. The only annoying thing would be having the two most badass women both be gay, as in having common--but sorta stereotypical--traits.

[Witch_Doctor]

Wait, is the "prisoners" the slaves that would include some of the members of Colony or the prisoner ruling the Colony?

She refers to the Convicts alone as the prisoners. An example is when she says that it's not worth crossing the prisoners again by going to the Colony to get the Sat. phone.

[Witch_Doctor]

So, who wants to take bets that CJ will end up with Riley? Sean and CJ were close, but who knows if they were knocking boots. The only annoying thing would be having the two most badass women both be gay, as in having common--but sorta stereotypical--traits.

I just want SOMEBODY to hook-up. Anybody. Hell, even Mr. Whiskers and Lady. There's enough mass hysteria going on for cats and dogs to 'get along.' Truth be told, I was actually drawn into this podcast because I thought Riley sounded sexy and was flirting with Michael in Chapter one. Imagine the sound fx for someone getting a little boom-chicka-wow-wow! I can picture someone in the studio holding a microphone up to a panting German Sheppard or recording someone ramming their fist in and out of a jar of mayonnaise.

Common KC, C.J. sounds 'frustrated' and Victor must be in a state of severe blue balls. ZombieSniper, what do you think? Victor and C.J. in the Boom-boom Kitty Room?

[Hellbringer]

I just want SOMEBODY to hook-up. Anybody. Hell, even Mr. Whiskers and Lady. There's enough mass hysteria going on for cats and dogs to 'get along.' Truth be told, I was actually drawn into this podcast because I thought Riley sounded sexy and was flirting with Michael in Chapter one. Imagine the sound fx for someone getting a little boom-chicka-wow-wow! I can picture someone in the studio holding a microphone up to a panting German Sheppard or recording someone ramming their fist in and out of a jar of mayonnaise.

Common KC, C.J. sounds 'frustrated' and Victor must be in a state of severe blue balls. ZombieSniper, what do you think? Victor and C.J. in the Boom-boom Kitty Room?

I heard that CJ doesn't like insurance salesmen. Just saying...

[Ray]

...or recording someone ramming their fist in and out of a jar of mayonnaise.

That got a genuine cringe and a huge lol out of me!

[Witch_Doctor]

Crazy thought, and of course, this is ONLY hyperbole. I'm not sure how much of a backbone Glenn has. Sure, Victor told him ix-nay on Ahn-shay but he was alone with C.J. while the others packed and prepped Pete. If she pressed him for what he really knew about Sean do you think he'll tell her? He could do it out of gratitude for the safe house. He's been persuaded over and over as a show of gratitude. The long range radio at the colony as payback for Victor rescuing him, forgiving Victor for taking the ammo as thanks for closing a door. He seems like he could roll easily. His favorite thing to say, right after "Ha ho, I was just about to say..." is "If you say so." Sounds like he was about to volunteer info about Sean before being interrupted.

[HorrorHiro]

Wait, is the "prisoners" the slaves that would include some of the members of Colony or the prisoner ruling the Colony?

As in the ones ruling the Colony now, but they weren't at the Colony when Shaun was there.

[Osiris]

Nope. Life, experience, a stuff you should know podcast and many episodes of law and order did.

Law & Order sucks. Except for Hang 'Em High McCoy. That mofucker is badass personified.

[Eviebae]

Eviebae, explain reverse Stockholm Syndrome I can't wrap my brain around it. Please!

It's a made-up term I used for her starting to identify with her victim. I wondered if there'd be a warped form of intimacy that would develop. The more she tried to beat him down and he resisted; the more she'd despise herself and respect him. I think she'd have to come to a breaking point with Durai and the Family structure around the same time.

[Vlarken]

I foresee this Reverse Stockholm-Syndrome maybe developing into Burt/Scratch romance. ....If they can get past the age difference, of course. ....And the symbolic murder by Scratch of Shirley. ....And all the other stuff.

[Eviebae]

I foresee this Reverse Stockholm-Syndrome maybe developing into Burt/Scratch romance. ....If they can get past the age difference, of course. ....And the symbolic murder by Scratch of Shirley. ....And all the other stuff.

...ending with Scratch wrapped around Burt atop a tank plowing through a horde of zombies--Desert Eagles Blazing. Burt chomps a cigar tight in a huge shit-eating grin; steering with his feet smashing thousands of zombies to jelly while "Born in the USA" blares. Finally, realizing they are out of ammo, Scratch bends Burt back in a passionate kiss and the 40gazillion megaton nuke in the belly of the tank blows and they both go out in a ball of fury and thunder.

Yup, that.

[yarri]

...ending with Scratch wrapped around Burt atop a tank plowing through a horde of zombies--Desert Eagles Blazing. Burt chomps a cigar tight in a huge shit-eating grin; steering with his feet smashing thousands of zombies to jelly while "Born in the USA" blares. Finally, realizing they are out of ammo, Scratch bends Burt back in a passionate kiss and the 40gazillion megaton nuke in the belly of the tank blows and they both go out in a ball of fury and thunder.

Yup, that.
I think I've gone blind.

[Osiris]

...ending with Scratch wrapped around Burt atop a tank plowing through a horde of zombies--Desert Eagles Blazing. Burt chomps a cigar tight in a huge shit-eating grin; steering with his feet smashing thousands of zombies to jelly while "Born in the USA" blares. Finally, realizing they are out of ammo, Scratch bends Burt back in a passionate kiss and the 40gazillion megaton nuke in the belly of the tank blows and they both go out in a ball of fury and thunder.

Yup, that.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/cece_ugh_big.png

[Vlarken]

...ending with Scratch wrapped around Burt atop a tank plowing through a horde of zombies--Desert Eagles Blazing. Burt chomps a cigar tight in a huge shit-eating grin; steering with his feet smashing thousands of zombies to jelly while "Born in the USA" blares. Finally, realizing they are out of ammo, Scratch bends Burt back in a passionate kiss and the 40gazillion megaton nuke in the belly of the tank blows and they both go out in a ball of fury and thunder.

Yup, that.

Someone has to draw that. I would if I knew how to draw well, but nope.

[Cabbage Patch]

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2032&d=1342420992

[daredevil]

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2032&d=1342420992

It needs "Play Burt Mode"

[Osiris]

Someone has to draw that. I would if I knew how to draw well, but nope.

Nooooooooooooooooo

[Vlarken]

Nooooooooooooooooo

Come on, it has potential. I have seen way more frightening crackships.


It needs "Play Burt Mode"

I'm pretty sure that would be an entirely different game, more along the lines of Burt letting someone of lesser badassery drive the tank while he goes on foot and rips all the zombies apart with his bare hands.

[Osiris]

Yeah.... but... :squint:

[7oddisdead]

I could do it...but I refuse.

[Vlarken]

I could do it...but I refuse.

I'm not sure you realize its potential... At least, the way I'm seeing it in my head. I wish I had that machine from Final Fantasy that records thoughts straight from your mind.

[7oddisdead]

Oh I do..its mainly out if respect to osi...he gives me the ok, its on like donkey long...

[reaper239]

protip: don't jump in at the end of a 400 post thread and just start poking around... disturbing stuff. i will say this though: come on osiris, give 7odd the go ahead, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

[Vlarken]

^Seconded, pleeeeaaaasssseeee, bitte lass es sein! It has the potential to be one of the greatest things to ever exist. Or well, maybe notsomuch, but it will be very very cool.

[Luna Guardian]

I just want SOMEBODY to hook-up. Anybody. Hell, even Mr. Whiskers and Lady. There's enough mass hysteria going on for cats and dogs to 'get along.' Truth be told, I was actually drawn into this podcast because I thought Riley sounded sexy and was flirting with Michael in Chapter one. Imagine the sound fx for someone getting a little boom-chicka-wow-wow! I can picture someone in the studio holding a microphone up to a panting German Sheppard or recording someone ramming their fist in and out of a jar of mayonnaise.

Common KC, C.J. sounds 'frustrated' and Victor must be in a state of severe blue balls. ZombieSniper, what do you think? Victor and C.J. in the Boom-boom Kitty Room?


...ending with Scratch wrapped around Burt atop a tank plowing through a horde of zombies--Desert Eagles Blazing. Burt chomps a cigar tight in a huge shit-eating grin; steering with his feet smashing thousands of zombies to jelly while "Born in the USA" blares. Finally, realizing they are out of ammo, Scratch bends Burt back in a passionate kiss and the 40gazillion megaton nuke in the belly of the tank blows and they both go out in a ball of fury and thunder.

Yup, that.

THIS is what I came back to? Jeez...

Also: Dafuq did I just read?

[Vlarken]

Also: Dafuq did I just read?

Something beautiful.

[Osiris]

Oh I do..its mainly out if respect to osi...he gives me the ok, its on like donkey long...

Go forth and draw, sir.

[daredevil]

I'm not sure you realize its potential... At least, the way I'm seeing it in my head. I wish I had that machine from Final Fantasy that records thoughts straight from your mind.

Soon....

[Burnsville Kit]

This episode was unbelievably intense! Burt! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! This was the last thing I was expecting from Scratch (like others, I gave her some sympathy last episode, but now it's gone). She is definitely evil! Destroying a powerful weapon like Shirley, especially when new guns can't be made easily now. Then to go and cut off his finger? I was cringing the entire torture. Yet, Burt held out. How? I'll admit I haven't read all of this thread yet. But, here's my two cents:
1. We know Burt was in the USMC.
2. I believe he said he was in Vietnam in one episode.
3. He was probably a POW, and went through torture that defies anything that Scratch could do to him.
I hope that he gets his revenge!

[Osiris]

This episode was unbelievably intense! Burt! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! This was the last thing I was expecting from Scratch (like others, I gave her some sympathy last episode, but now it's gone). She is definitely evil! Destroying a powerful weapon like Shirley, especially when new guns can't be made easily now. Then to go and cut off his finger? I was cringing the entire torture. Yet, Burt held out. How? I'll admit I haven't read all of this thread yet. But, here's my two cents:
1. We know Burt was in the USMC.
2. I believe he said he was in Vietnam in one episode.
3. He was probably a POW, and went through torture that defies anything that Scratch could do to him.
I hope that he gets his revenge!

See? Scratch isn't the 'most evil bitch ever.' She's way nicer than the VC.

[daredevil]

See? Scratch isn't the 'most evil bitch ever.' She's way nicer than the VC.

She's nicer than me too.... barely

[yarri]

Yarri what I want to know is who approved the blue cammo for the Navy?? I think that it is a toss up between the Navy and Army as to who has the worst uniform, the ACU's don't blend in with anything and the Navy blue cammo blends in to well with the water... which sucks if you go into the drink!

Its better then the bell bottoms and prison light blue chambray long sleeve shirts we had and the black caps (female cap) (if you ask me what its slang name was I will tell you) that bore a strong physical representation of a woman's genitals when looked at long ways. I'm pleased with the blue camo. I think its quite smart looking and by far more comfortable.

[Hellbringer]

Its better then the bell bottoms and prison light blue chambray long sleeve shirts we had and the black caps (female cap) (if you ask me what its slang name was I will tell you) that bore a strong physical representation of a woman's genitals when looked at long ways. I'm pleased with the blue camo. I think its quite smart looking and by far more comfortable.

no,no,no,no,no,no. I loved seeing the dungarees. Tradition, you can't break it. Granted, it didn't flatter a woman's body, but you could tell they were sailors with no doubt.

[yarri]

no,no,no,no,no,no. I loved seeing the dungarees. Tradition, you can't break it. Granted, it didn't flatter a woman's body, but you could tell they were sailors with no doubt.

They didn't flaughter a mans either and they itched and were uncomfortable

[daredevil]

They didn't flaughter a mans either and they itched and were uncomfortable

Nothing worse than itchy genitals.

[lenarinn]

(I dunno did i miss the train for this discussion? XD)
Oh... Kc Why must you toy with my emotions. I was just starting not to hate scratch... Poor BURT T~T I was crying my eyes out...

[Jannit]

I've searched and searched and searched but couldn't find an answer so I apologize if this has already been covered. It's hard to come in late and catch up given the amount of material on these forums.

In the scene where Burt's finger gets cut off they're pretty specific about it being his right forefinger. My question is, do we know if he is actually right handed?

[LiamKerrington]

do we know if he is actually right handed?

No, we don't.

[Robzombie]

I've searched and searched and searched but couldn't find an answer so I apologize if this has already been covered. It's hard to come in late and catch up given the amount of material on these forums.

In the scene where Burt's finger gets cut off they're pretty specific about it being his right forefinger. My question is, do we know if he is actually right handed?

no we dont, but Scratch would know from their first encounter at the tanker truck. Also note that she was about to cut off the finger from his left hand until Bricks stopped her.
I said it before...I think that left finger is going to come in very handy.

[Jannit]

no we dont, but Scratch would know from their first encounter at the tanker truck. Also note that she was about to cut off the finger from his left hand until Bricks stopped her.
I said it before...I think that left finger is going to come in very handy.


She might but that seems like an easily overlooked detail! It was about five months between the tanker incident and the night in the hospital, after all. ! I know I wouldn't remember after that long but my memory tends to suck.

I'd missed the bit about Brick stopping Scratch from cutting off Burt's left finger; thanks for that little tidbit. Given what we know about Bricks, he seems like a relatively decent guy so I'm going to throw my lot in with the left finger coming in handy idea.

[LiamKerrington]

Lefties for the win ...

[Robzombie]

She might but that seems like an easily overlooked detail! It was about five months between the tanker incident and the night in the hospital, after all. ! I know I wouldn't remember after that long but my memory tends to suck.

I'd missed the bit about Brick stopping Scratch from cutting off Burt's left finger; thanks for that little tidbit. Given what we know about Bricks, he seems like a relatively decent guy so I'm going to throw my lot in with the left finger coming in handy idea.

I think you're onto something. She may have started with the right hand just by assumption as most people are right handed without actually having any recollection of which hand he is. He could be left handed, he could be ambidextrous too.

[nikvoodoo]

I'm reading between the lines here, but I'm saying he's right handed. Click burt's wiki link. See associated artwork that is kc wayland approved artwork showing burt holding shirley with his right hand.

Not definitive proof, but just sayin'.

[LiamKerrington]

Considering the situation back then ...

Tense situation between Lizzy, Saul and Burt on the one side and Latch'n'Scratch on the other side ...
Scratch and Burt are all on par North 'n' South Corea-style ... And then Burt thoroughly aims at the sidewindow of the truck, while Scratch observes him. No distraction at all ...
Five months are no time if you had time to get some detailed impressions of your enemy/ opponent.

No, we do not know, if Burt is right-, left-handed or ambidextrous; I just stick with the odds ... Right-handed males are far more common then lefties or ambidextrous ones ... But I like the idea of him being ambidextrous; and I wouldn't even feel bad, if I am wrong and Burt is a leftie after all ...

[Kc]

I'm reading between the lines here, but I'm saying he's right handed. Click burt's wiki link. See associated artwork that is kc wayland approved artwork showing burt holding shirley with his right hand.

Not definitive proof, but just sayin'.

He's right handed. Scratch has seen him use his gun before. Chapter 6 I believe. She has a pretty good memory.

[Jannit]

Well, that takes care of that. Thanks for the clarification Kc.

[Kc]

:zombie: <- Sorry for being a thread killer...

[Jannit]

:zombie: <- Sorry for being a thread killer...

You'd better be! How dare you clarify something and stop us from wildly speculating about insignificant and pointless details?!

Kidding, of course. There needs to be some sort of punctuation mark for sarcasm, as a random aside.

[nikvoodoo]

He's right handed. Scratch has seen him use his gun before. Chapter 6 I believe. She has a pretty good memory.
It was brought up earlier about that encounter. I was going for new evidence. Shoulda remembered Scratch's given talent for memory.

[Robzombie]

It was brought up earlier about that encounter.

yup, that would have been me again...the ignored Canadian. I told you you hate us (or is it just me :D)
...really you don't have to hate us because we have the superior health, banking, governmental, educational, etc, systems...
Okay okay never mind, i wont go there, but let me ask this...

Why isn't Riley a French Canadian?...how many french people do you really have there...especially after your "freedom" fries fiasco...geez

[DagnyTag]

I wonder how Burt survived all those months is what is essentially solitary confinement. Most people would have gone crazy. Burt is one bad mother fucker.